17 ms·

Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

209 points by devnerd239 5y ago

2Gkashmiri 5y ago
What is the point of "broad" location? Cant this be deducted from your cellular network? Wouldnt that save the trouble of keeping your GPS completly off ? I saw on some new android phones something called "privacy features" which would mean not giving access to contacts for example. The problem is all apps know you are using this feature and they nag you to turn it off. Whats the point then? How I want the thing to be, "oh, the contacts permission is given but nothing here. Oh well. ". Same for location and SMS and other stuff. I remember old ios, circa ios 5-6 had app permissions behind a password. I would take family phones and lock down location and contacts behind a password (it couldand inapp purchases prevent access to store and iTunes and browser if I remember) so for giving kids this this would be great. That has never come to android.
- yosito 5y ago
  > How I want the thing to be, "oh, the contacts permission is given but nothing here. Oh well. That's actually a good idea. I wonder if any Android distros do this. In theory, it should be possible, but I don't know how tricky it would be to implement.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  Broad location narrows you down to a neighborhood where your economic value can be inferred so the optimal ads can be directed at your way. No sense in showing Bentley ads to the poors.
  - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
    and i am saying that broad location can already be inferred from your cellular location
- zzo38computer 5y ago
  > How I want the thing to be, "oh, the contacts permission is given but nothing here. Oh well. ". Same for location and SMS and other stuff. Yes, that is a good idea. The user could also program in more elaborate filters, e.g. to expose a subset of contacts data, random data instead of the actual data, spoofed locations, etc. Also can be distinguish read-only or read/write, etc. (If the user does not have all of these elaborate options and more, then the app writer might realize what is happening and then might program it to complain if there is nothing there. Also, such options can be helpful for testing purpose as well as for user customizability, too.) (I don't use the cell phone, but nevertheless such thing like you mentioned can be good idea.)
arcanus 5y ago
Corporate warfare in the internet age. Interesting to see how Apple and Google can materially impact FB.
- vorticalbox 5y ago
  I'm not sure this is effecting Facebook as much as they are making out. People are still using Facebook, posting pictures, tagging people they know, checking into locations, posting what they buy and so on. Still pently of information to track and sell to advertisers.
  - HappySweeney 5y ago
    Ultimately we will see the effect by how much adverstising costs on FB relative to Google.
- onelovetwo 5y ago
  Whats iconic is Google themselves have been using bluetooth for years to track your location. This still doesnt limit Google themselves using it, just third party apps. hence why it wont affect their ad business. This is a win win for Google, slow down competition and give the illusion of privacy to users.
  - Sunspark 5y ago
    You can turn off wifi and bluetooth scanning beacons in your device's settings. It helps.
- grishka 5y ago
  Google certainly won't copy Apple here because being able to track the hell out of you is very important for their own business model. Apple can afford that because they sell hardware and services but not data.
an_opabinia 5y ago
The value of the location based tracking is overrated. Anyway, if you post an image to Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp, the EXIF data has your location, or it can be solved from the content of the image.
- kilroy123 5y ago
  What if iOS or Android start to scrub that data for you? Which I wish they did...
  - yosito 5y ago
    I've turned off location tagging on my Android camera. That setting exists.
  - thekyle 5y ago
    On Samsung's version of Android there is an option to remove the location data before you share to an app. https://i.imgur.com/PVAaA2d.jpg https://i.imgur.com/PVAaA2d.jpg
  - KineticLensman 5y ago
    On iOS 14 I have set the camera's access to Location Services as 'never'. If I inspect the EXIF on iPhone photos that I've moved to my PC the GPS fields are blank.
  - an_opabinia 5y ago
    Facebook can solve a location from the content of the image. Listen to yourself. Even you can identify a geographic location from many images, easily. I don't know, it's kind of a stupid idea, give Facebook an image and yet the expectation is, they're not supposed to know or understand anything about it?
- mrweasel 5y ago
  With the exception of people who travel a lot, I really don't see why location, beyond what users enter into Facebook themself, would be particular useful. That seems to be the theme with Facebook, they collect a ton of information that isn't obviously useful. So what do Facebook know that the rest of us don't? Because the engineers at Facebook aren't stupid, they must have a reason for collecting all this stuff. Perhaps it's just in case they might find a use case some day?
motoboi 5y ago
So we basically are seeing that google was "right" from their point of view in securing a mobile OS. Facebook maybe thought this day would never arrive and could have avoided that by doing their own mobile OS too. Well, maybe they declared this battle as lost and focused on the next one: VR. Problem is that VR took too long to arrive and death on mobile can kill Facebook?
- dazc 5y ago
  '...and death on mobile can kill Facebook?' Seriously wondering what impact this would have on the world other than a positive one?
  - motoboi 5y ago
    Probably not positive for Facebook stock owner's world. But I personally agree with you. My world will be better without it.
  - kaybe 5y ago
    I'm not sure, going to a more monopolistic world still seems bad to me, even if I like and trust this particular player a little bit less than the others.
    - mrweasel 5y ago
      Facebook is a monopoly, in most parts of the world. I know some would claim that Twitter is a competitor, but I don't really see the two having much in common, other than being social networks.
- spoonjim 5y ago
  Facebook realized that no amount of money was going to will a third mobile OS into existence. cf. Microsoft.
  - johannes1234321 5y ago
    They didn't even find enough users for their Android "launcher" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Home https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Home A Facebook phone probably would give even more critical reception ...
speeder 5y ago
Whenever I read articles like this, I get more and more horrified. I mean, I know that adtech spy on us a lot, but I didn't knew for example that using Bluetooth while the app is shut down was possible. Makes me very wary even of dumbphones, for example I bought a dumbphone recently, and yet it came with Facebook and Google Assistant both pre-installed.
- jraph 5y ago
  if it has facebook and google assistant, isn't it really an (Android) smartphone which looks like a dumb phone?
  - speeder 5y ago
    It was KaiOS actually, that is based on FirefoxOS. Unfortunately they went so hard on dumbphone specs that it ran poorly, kept crashing all the time because it kept running out of ram. (it had 256mb of RAM I believe, or 128, don't remember, one of the two).
  - thekyle 5y ago
    It could be running KaiOS which is the 3rd most popular mobile phone OS, but not quite as functional as Android or iOS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS
  - rjsw 5y ago
    Newer Nokia/HMD dumb phones come with a Facebook app, they are not running Android.
- cm2187 5y ago
  I thought it is precisely because it wasn’t possible that contact tracing required a special API
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > I didn't knew for example that using Bluetooth while the app is shut down was possible How did you think for example notifications were pushed to Bluetooth smart watches?
intricatedetail 5y ago
Why can't governments make tracking illegal? These companies that manipulate population into buying products they don't want or need are the mythical "broken window". Nobody mention how all this online business contributes to global warming. Factories produce useless products, that need to be stored, delivered, disposed of...
- livre 5y ago
  >Why can't governments make tracking illegal? Why would they? These companies are collecting the data the government wants, it's a free service for the government and they only have to ask for the data when they need it.
  - CoolGuySteve 5y ago
    Because some company with a successful app can build a real time population census for a foreign government.
- marcodiego 5y ago
  > Why can't governments make tracking illegal? Because then they won't receive a few million $$ in donation for the next campaign.
- yosito 5y ago
  > Why can't governments make tracking illegal? Because they're not really in charge anymore.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  It's difficult to make regulation for a specific line that actually does disallow tracking without leaving loopholes and does not put weird restrictions on everyone else. However, governments (at least some) are trying; GDPR is a step in that direction, but it has ovious associated difficulties have been discussed here in HN for years; California is moving in with similar laws, so there is a trend, but it will take years for it to get anywhere. I'd guess that EU will make "GDPR v2" (however that will be called) with severe restrictions on tracking by 2025 or so.
lodovic 5y ago
But Google still gets that info, just not Facebook. How is this not abuse of its market position?
- dannyr 5y ago
  For me, it's a lesser evil thing I guess. If I have to choose only between Facebook and Google, I'd choose Google to have my data.
  - Craighead 5y ago
    You get a choice there, unlike your isp and credit cards :)
  - nvr219 5y ago
    Why is that? Does Cambridge Analytica-type stuff not happen with Google? I feel the same way as you but not because I think one is less evil. Rather, it's because Google brings me much more value in its search engine and productivity suite.
    - lima 5y ago
      Google has a reputation for good internal controls (that Facebook was lacking at the time).
      - tpmx 5y ago
        Going slightly tangential: It seems like there are a lot more political activists working at Google. It also seems likely that this will backfire in a spectacular way at some point. The risk here is politically strategic data leaks of individual user data - not Cambridge Analytica-like situations. Could be blackmail material on a few key people, or perhaps a giant data leak on millions of people from the "enemy side". The point is that sharing data with Google is just as dangerous.
        neatze 5y ago
ape4 5y ago
Facebook still knows lots of stuff about your location. You have recently liked a business nearby. You're in a Facebook group about your area, etc
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dylan604 5y ago
  Or your contancts have done something that included you and you knew nothing of it. At least you liking something to action on your part. All of the other methods that Facebook uses to continue gathering data about you without your direct knowledge is the worst. It's this behavior that should be the nail in the coffin for Facebook.
cardosof 5y ago
While I'm sure personalization increases ad efficiency metrics to some degree, I'm curious to see how all this will actually "hurt" FB, either by making their ads worse in terms of CPA/CPC/etc or in advertisers pouring less money into FB and more money into other DSPs/inventories. As anything marketing, it's not that straightforward, really, and advertisers may very well keep running ads on FB despite all those changes.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pm90 5y ago
  So much this. IIRC only a very few use cases exist where such kind of location data is absolutely essential. They’re still gonna get loads of data from other sources, which would be good enough targeting for most advertisers.
OrvalWintermute 5y ago
This is the Cauldron clamping down on the Kettle.
bozzcl 5y ago
Just for Facebook though. Bet you they’re doing very little to encumber themselves in that respect.
donut2d 5y ago
Facebook uses location data to learn where you live and where you go. For some, this location-based targeting might be fine since it serves them relevant ads. Thanks, I hate it.
realjohng 5y ago
Facebook is just a flower in someone else's garden.
- AbuAssar 5y ago
  What is that supposed to mean?
  - romanhn 5y ago
    The app stores are the gardens, and Facebook is ultimately at the whim of the gardener. Also, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform
    - wizzwizz4 5y ago
      On the contrary: Facebook is a garden full of people. If all the app stores banned Facebook, many people would work to get Facebook back – even those who don't like Facebook.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
GordonS 5y ago
> the user can breathe a sigh of relief as their location cannot be shared with nearby devices unless the app explicitly states it — which most users will unanimously deny. If Facebook simply have their app say it won't work without accepting this, then I very, very much doubt that anything but a miniscule number of people would be uninstalling the app.
- skohan 5y ago
  Under GDPR they cannot do this in Europe. You're only allowed to deny the user the experience of the app if the basic service cannot be met without collecting the user's data (i.e. location data for a turn-by-turn direction app)
  - magnetowasright 5y ago
    While doing that anyway would be an egregious breach of GDPR I wouldn’t put it past Facebook to do it. They could release the update that prompts users to accept the tracking with the threat of being denied service, maybe pay a fine for breaching the GDPR regulations, take some time to ‘fix’ the issue and push out a new update after enough people have accepted to make it worth their while. I know it’s much more complicated than that but considering how much trouble people apparently have trying to leverage the data retrieval or removal requests under the GDPR[0] it looks like they think they’re above the law and are willing to make an effort to avoid complying with it. I wonder how far they’re willing to push it. [0] https://ruben.verborgh.org/facebook/ https://ruben.verborgh.org/facebook/
jollybean 5y ago
So, Google can make sure they are the only one's tracking you? I see. No conflict of interest there!
animanoir 5y ago
I hope both companies burn in hell.
koalaman 5y ago
"Facebook _could_ still fingerprint users using BlueTooth" This article's title and narrative makes it sound like Facebook is using bluetooth fingerprinting to geolocate users against their wishes, and that Android's new permission will end that. However reading the text carefully it never actually claims Facebook is currently doing that. Are they or not? Is this article a hypothetical? That seems very disingenuous but also very typical of the kind of stories on privacy and advertising I see online.
- ggggtez 5y ago
  My hunch is that the could language is couching since it can be hard to know for certain of Facebook is storing the data or just doing something else. But I think the implication is that they at least were looking at it when they weren't supposed to be
  - stickfigure 5y ago
    If the author had a smoking gun, he/she would have put it in the lede. Parent is right, this is disingenuous.
  - PoignardAzur 5y ago
    I think if Facebook did such a thing, a journalist could find out about it by now. Facebook isn't open-source, so it's hard to analyze what the app does, but not impossible, and Facebook is under a lot of scrutiny.
jliptzin 5y ago
Google should be in favor of privacy, their advertising model serves ads only when you want them about the subject you’re searching for. Facebook relies on knowing everything about you to show you ads when you don’t want them, hoping they’ll give you something you’re interested in clicking on.
- gyvastis 5y ago
  I believe you're missing the fact that most people use a lot of Google services so it already has a pretty good model of who you are and what you're interested in without even the need of any shady tracking methods.
ineedasername 5y ago
I'm not a big facebook user, but I suppose this is good for the privacy-minded that do use facebook. However, it seems hypocritical of Google to grant greater control to users over the data that 3rd party apps can obtain but practically none over what users can control in the Android & Chrome ecosystem.

209 points by devnerd239 5y ago

What is the point of "broad" location? Cant this be deducted from your cellular network? Wouldnt that save the trouble of keeping your GPS completly off ? I saw on some new android phones something called "privacy features" which would mean not giving access to contacts for example. The problem is all apps know you are using this feature and they nag you to turn it off. Whats the point then? How I want the thing to be, "oh, the contacts permission is given but nothing here. Oh well. ". Same for location and SMS and other stuff. I remember old ios, circa ios 5-6 had app permissions behind a password. I would take family phones and lock down location and contacts behind a password (it couldand inapp purchases prevent access to store and iTunes and browser if I remember) so for giving kids this this would be great. That has never come to android.

yosito 5y ago
> How I want the thing to be, "oh, the contacts permission is given but nothing here. Oh well. That's actually a good idea. I wonder if any Android distros do this. In theory, it should be possible, but I don't know how tricky it would be to implement.
kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
Broad location narrows you down to a neighborhood where your economic value can be inferred so the optimal ads can be directed at your way. No sense in showing Bentley ads to the poors.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  and i am saying that broad location can already be inferred from your cellular location
zzo38computer 5y ago
> How I want the thing to be, "oh, the contacts permission is given but nothing here. Oh well. ". Same for location and SMS and other stuff. Yes, that is a good idea. The user could also program in more elaborate filters, e.g. to expose a subset of contacts data, random data instead of the actual data, spoofed locations, etc. Also can be distinguish read-only or read/write, etc. (If the user does not have all of these elaborate options and more, then the app writer might realize what is happening and then might program it to complain if there is nothing there. Also, such options can be helpful for testing purpose as well as for user customizability, too.) (I don't use the cell phone, but nevertheless such thing like you mentioned can be good idea.)

arcanus 5y ago

Corporate warfare in the internet age. Interesting to see how Apple and Google can materially impact FB.

vorticalbox 5y ago
I'm not sure this is effecting Facebook as much as they are making out. People are still using Facebook, posting pictures, tagging people they know, checking into locations, posting what they buy and so on. Still pently of information to track and sell to advertisers.
- HappySweeney 5y ago
  Ultimately we will see the effect by how much adverstising costs on FB relative to Google.
onelovetwo 5y ago
Whats iconic is Google themselves have been using bluetooth for years to track your location. This still doesnt limit Google themselves using it, just third party apps. hence why it wont affect their ad business. This is a win win for Google, slow down competition and give the illusion of privacy to users.
- Sunspark 5y ago
  You can turn off wifi and bluetooth scanning beacons in your device's settings. It helps.
grishka 5y ago
Google certainly won't copy Apple here because being able to track the hell out of you is very important for their own business model. Apple can afford that because they sell hardware and services but not data.

an_opabinia 5y ago

The value of the location based tracking is overrated. Anyway, if you post an image to Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp, the EXIF data has your location, or it can be solved from the content of the image.

kilroy123 5y ago
What if iOS or Android start to scrub that data for you? Which I wish they did...
- yosito 5y ago
  I've turned off location tagging on my Android camera. That setting exists.
- thekyle 5y ago
  On Samsung's version of Android there is an option to remove the location data before you share to an app. https://i.imgur.com/PVAaA2d.jpg https://i.imgur.com/PVAaA2d.jpg
- KineticLensman 5y ago
  On iOS 14 I have set the camera's access to Location Services as 'never'. If I inspect the EXIF on iPhone photos that I've moved to my PC the GPS fields are blank.
- an_opabinia 5y ago
  Facebook can solve a location from the content of the image. Listen to yourself. Even you can identify a geographic location from many images, easily. I don't know, it's kind of a stupid idea, give Facebook an image and yet the expectation is, they're not supposed to know or understand anything about it?
mrweasel 5y ago
With the exception of people who travel a lot, I really don't see why location, beyond what users enter into Facebook themself, would be particular useful. That seems to be the theme with Facebook, they collect a ton of information that isn't obviously useful. So what do Facebook know that the rest of us don't? Because the engineers at Facebook aren't stupid, they must have a reason for collecting all this stuff. Perhaps it's just in case they might find a use case some day?

motoboi 5y ago

So we basically are seeing that google was "right" from their point of view in securing a mobile OS. Facebook maybe thought this day would never arrive and could have avoided that by doing their own mobile OS too. Well, maybe they declared this battle as lost and focused on the next one: VR. Problem is that VR took too long to arrive and death on mobile can kill Facebook?

dazc 5y ago
'...and death on mobile can kill Facebook?' Seriously wondering what impact this would have on the world other than a positive one?
- motoboi 5y ago
  Probably not positive for Facebook stock owner's world. But I personally agree with you. My world will be better without it.
- kaybe 5y ago
  I'm not sure, going to a more monopolistic world still seems bad to me, even if I like and trust this particular player a little bit less than the others.
  - mrweasel 5y ago
    Facebook is a monopoly, in most parts of the world. I know some would claim that Twitter is a competitor, but I don't really see the two having much in common, other than being social networks.
spoonjim 5y ago
Facebook realized that no amount of money was going to will a third mobile OS into existence. cf. Microsoft.
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  They didn't even find enough users for their Android "launcher" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Home https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Home A Facebook phone probably would give even more critical reception ...

speeder 5y ago

Whenever I read articles like this, I get more and more horrified. I mean, I know that adtech spy on us a lot, but I didn't knew for example that using Bluetooth while the app is shut down was possible. Makes me very wary even of dumbphones, for example I bought a dumbphone recently, and yet it came with Facebook and Google Assistant both pre-installed.

jraph 5y ago
if it has facebook and google assistant, isn't it really an (Android) smartphone which looks like a dumb phone?
- speeder 5y ago
  It was KaiOS actually, that is based on FirefoxOS. Unfortunately they went so hard on dumbphone specs that it ran poorly, kept crashing all the time because it kept running out of ram. (it had 256mb of RAM I believe, or 128, don't remember, one of the two).
- thekyle 5y ago
  It could be running KaiOS which is the 3rd most popular mobile phone OS, but not quite as functional as Android or iOS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS
- rjsw 5y ago
  Newer Nokia/HMD dumb phones come with a Facebook app, they are not running Android.
cm2187 5y ago
I thought it is precisely because it wasn’t possible that contact tracing required a special API
chrisseaton 5y ago
> I didn't knew for example that using Bluetooth while the app is shut down was possible How did you think for example notifications were pushed to Bluetooth smart watches?

intricatedetail 5y ago

Why can't governments make tracking illegal? These companies that manipulate population into buying products they don't want or need are the mythical "broken window". Nobody mention how all this online business contributes to global warming. Factories produce useless products, that need to be stored, delivered, disposed of...

livre 5y ago
>Why can't governments make tracking illegal? Why would they? These companies are collecting the data the government wants, it's a free service for the government and they only have to ask for the data when they need it.
- CoolGuySteve 5y ago
  Because some company with a successful app can build a real time population census for a foreign government.
marcodiego 5y ago
> Why can't governments make tracking illegal? Because then they won't receive a few million $$ in donation for the next campaign.
yosito 5y ago
> Why can't governments make tracking illegal? Because they're not really in charge anymore.
PeterisP 5y ago
It's difficult to make regulation for a specific line that actually does disallow tracking without leaving loopholes and does not put weird restrictions on everyone else. However, governments (at least some) are trying; GDPR is a step in that direction, but it has ovious associated difficulties have been discussed here in HN for years; California is moving in with similar laws, so there is a trend, but it will take years for it to get anywhere. I'd guess that EU will make "GDPR v2" (however that will be called) with severe restrictions on tracking by 2025 or so.

lodovic 5y ago

But Google still gets that info, just not Facebook. How is this not abuse of its market position?

dannyr 5y ago
For me, it's a lesser evil thing I guess. If I have to choose only between Facebook and Google, I'd choose Google to have my data.
- Craighead 5y ago
  You get a choice there, unlike your isp and credit cards :)
- nvr219 5y ago
  Why is that? Does Cambridge Analytica-type stuff not happen with Google? I feel the same way as you but not because I think one is less evil. Rather, it's because Google brings me much more value in its search engine and productivity suite.
  - lima 5y ago
    Google has a reputation for good internal controls (that Facebook was lacking at the time).
    - tpmx 5y ago
      Going slightly tangential: It seems like there are a lot more political activists working at Google. It also seems likely that this will backfire in a spectacular way at some point. The risk here is politically strategic data leaks of individual user data - not Cambridge Analytica-like situations. Could be blackmail material on a few key people, or perhaps a giant data leak on millions of people from the "enemy side". The point is that sharing data with Google is just as dangerous.
      - neatze 5y ago

ape4 5y ago

Facebook still knows lots of stuff about your location. You have recently liked a business nearby. You're in a Facebook group about your area, etc

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dylan604 5y ago
Or your contancts have done something that included you and you knew nothing of it. At least you liking something to action on your part. All of the other methods that Facebook uses to continue gathering data about you without your direct knowledge is the worst. It's this behavior that should be the nail in the coffin for Facebook.

cardosof 5y ago

While I'm sure personalization increases ad efficiency metrics to some degree, I'm curious to see how all this will actually "hurt" FB, either by making their ads worse in terms of CPA/CPC/etc or in advertisers pouring less money into FB and more money into other DSPs/inventories. As anything marketing, it's not that straightforward, really, and advertisers may very well keep running ads on FB despite all those changes.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pm90 5y ago
So much this. IIRC only a very few use cases exist where such kind of location data is absolutely essential. They’re still gonna get loads of data from other sources, which would be good enough targeting for most advertisers.

OrvalWintermute 5y ago

This is the Cauldron clamping down on the Kettle.

bozzcl 5y ago

Just for Facebook though. Bet you they’re doing very little to encumber themselves in that respect.

donut2d 5y ago

Facebook uses location data to learn where you live and where you go. For some, this location-based targeting might be fine since it serves them relevant ads. Thanks, I hate it.

realjohng 5y ago

Facebook is just a flower in someone else's garden.

AbuAssar 5y ago
What is that supposed to mean?
- romanhn 5y ago
  The app stores are the gardens, and Facebook is ultimately at the whim of the gardener. Also, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    On the contrary: Facebook is a garden full of people. If all the app stores banned Facebook, many people would work to get Facebook back – even those who don't like Facebook.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

GordonS 5y ago

> the user can breathe a sigh of relief as their location cannot be shared with nearby devices unless the app explicitly states it — which most users will unanimously deny. If Facebook simply have their app say it won't work without accepting this, then I very, very much doubt that anything but a miniscule number of people would be uninstalling the app.

skohan 5y ago
Under GDPR they cannot do this in Europe. You're only allowed to deny the user the experience of the app if the basic service cannot be met without collecting the user's data (i.e. location data for a turn-by-turn direction app)
- magnetowasright 5y ago
  While doing that anyway would be an egregious breach of GDPR I wouldn’t put it past Facebook to do it. They could release the update that prompts users to accept the tracking with the threat of being denied service, maybe pay a fine for breaching the GDPR regulations, take some time to ‘fix’ the issue and push out a new update after enough people have accepted to make it worth their while. I know it’s much more complicated than that but considering how much trouble people apparently have trying to leverage the data retrieval or removal requests under the GDPR[0] it looks like they think they’re above the law and are willing to make an effort to avoid complying with it. I wonder how far they’re willing to push it. [0] https://ruben.verborgh.org/facebook/ https://ruben.verborgh.org/facebook/

jollybean 5y ago

So, Google can make sure they are the only one's tracking you? I see. No conflict of interest there!

animanoir 5y ago

I hope both companies burn in hell.

koalaman 5y ago

"Facebook _could_ still fingerprint users using BlueTooth" This article's title and narrative makes it sound like Facebook is using bluetooth fingerprinting to geolocate users against their wishes, and that Android's new permission will end that. However reading the text carefully it never actually claims Facebook is currently doing that. Are they or not? Is this article a hypothetical? That seems very disingenuous but also very typical of the kind of stories on privacy and advertising I see online.

ggggtez 5y ago
My hunch is that the could language is couching since it can be hard to know for certain of Facebook is storing the data or just doing something else. But I think the implication is that they at least were looking at it when they weren't supposed to be
- stickfigure 5y ago
  If the author had a smoking gun, he/she would have put it in the lede. Parent is right, this is disingenuous.
- PoignardAzur 5y ago
  I think if Facebook did such a thing, a journalist could find out about it by now. Facebook isn't open-source, so it's hard to analyze what the app does, but not impossible, and Facebook is under a lot of scrutiny.

jliptzin 5y ago

Google should be in favor of privacy, their advertising model serves ads only when you want them about the subject you’re searching for. Facebook relies on knowing everything about you to show you ads when you don’t want them, hoping they’ll give you something you’re interested in clicking on.

gyvastis 5y ago
I believe you're missing the fact that most people use a lot of Google services so it already has a pretty good model of who you are and what you're interested in without even the need of any shady tracking methods.

ineedasername 5y ago

I'm not a big facebook user, but I suppose this is good for the privacy-minded that do use facebook. However, it seems hypocritical of Google to grant greater control to users over the data that 3rd party apps can obtain but practically none over what users can control in the Android & Chrome ecosystem.