15 ms·

I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

192 points by rawgabbit 5y ago

josephcsible 5y ago
> The police officer said he was glad to have the license plate number but that robbery is so low-profile in the courts right now that even if they did catch him, without video proof, the thieves would be let go within a day or so. Even with video proof, there's a good chance that Chesa would drop all charges anyway. Related topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27216343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27216343
- KwisatzHaderack 5y ago
  At this point, Chesa Boudin might as well give the thieves a pat on the back and congratulate them for their enterprising spirit.
- jonahhorowitz 5y ago
  Why would you say that and not: the cops in San Francisco have an agenda, and that agenda is getting rid of Chesa. They have this agenda because he charged a few of them with crimes. The cops are going around blaming Chesa for every problem, while simultainously having one of the worst clearance rates in the country.[1][2] Also, organized crime might be responsible for the shoplifting, which wouldn't really fit the Chesa/Prop 47 narrative.[3] >To prosecute, the district attorney has pursued aggregated charges for multiple petty theft incidents by the same person, such as a recent case of stolen scooters. [1] - https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/This-is-how-the-pandemic-changed-crime-in-every-16107691.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/This-is-how-the-pa... [2] - https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/clearance-rates-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/clea... [3]- https://www.sfchronicle.com/local-politics/article/Out-of-control-Organized-crime-drives-S-F-16175755.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/local-politics/article/Out-of-co...
- xiphias2 5y ago
  Can't a person go to supreme court in that case?
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    No. The legal system doesn't work that way.
premium-komodo 5y ago
Yes, that seems to be how it is in SF. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arss9V3A1VA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arss9V3A1VA Is it possible that, despite good intentions, the policies being implemented there actually have very harmful effects?
- jwilber 5y ago
  Yeah, I think that hits the nail on the head. The nimby problem, on the other hand, shows how selfish intentions can also lead to very harmful effects. Spent 5 years there and am not envious of anyone living in the Bay at all.
  - chrischen 5y ago
    I actually think NIMBYism isn't a San Francisco specific problem. It was just brought to the forefront because many people decided to move there all of a sudden. But the reality is most popular places have people choosing to protect their property values.
    - jwilber 5y ago
      This rings true, although it’s hard to think of cities where the issue has resulted in as much harm as in SF.
- cyphertruck 5y ago
  These harmful effects are intended. That is the strategy. Its important to understand why. Your life depends on it.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - imgabe 5y ago
    Why? I mean, you can't tell people their life depends on knowing something and then not tell them.
fortran77 5y ago
My CA home, in Sunnyvale, is about 40 miles south of SF. I never go up to SF anymore, and I won't take meetings there. People who visit from out of town ask to go up to the city, and I won't take them. My life and personal safety is more important. I admire Jefferson (the man whose camera was stolen) for being so gracious about it. But he shouldn't blame himself.
- LeoPanthera 5y ago
  This is nonsensical. San Francisco's crime problem doesn't extend to the peninsula.
  - smsm42 5y ago
    It mostly does not. San Jose still has deep trouble with homeless camps, that is getting worse (and more widespread) year by year, so I imagine crime will get worse - thought not as bad as in SF, most Valley municipalities aren't as insane as the shining beacon of insanity in San Francisco, neither their inhabitants would likely tolerate these levels of craziness for long.
    - asdff 5y ago
      If it's anything like the smaller cities in LA county, they probably use the police to push off the homeless across the border. Culver city and santa monica are notorious for this practice.
      - smsm42 5y ago
        Judging by the size of the camps and the amount of stuff there, the police is not moving anybody anywhere. Pre-pandemic, there was a cleanup effort every 4-6 months where things went back to the usual within a week or so. Last year, not even that.
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      Property crime is at least getting common enough in the South Bay to warrant parking lots posting signs warning people to stow their luggage in their trunks. Seems like car break-in culture has spread beyond S.F.
dmagee 5y ago
https://recallchesaboudin.org/ https://recallchesaboudin.org/
- smsm42 5y ago
  They just elected him a year ago. He didn't change since then. He promised to do exactly what he did - release criminals from jails to the streets, reduce policing and de-emphasize small crime enforcement. This is exactly what is happening now. Why would anybody want to recall him for doing exactly what they elected him to do?
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    > Why would anybody want to recall him for doing exactly what they elected him to do? Because people thought that what he promised to do was good until they saw firsthand the consequences of it.
    - smsm42 5y ago
      But do they? I'm still not sure they actually do.
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  What's the point? His policies are what the local population were asking or even begging for. Even if the recall is successful, you will just get you a carbon copy. He is not using his position of power to abuse a powerless electorate, so why not let the local experiment go on? Even if you are against it, you should still want that experiment to continue right? Otherwise you would get people claiming that x policy wasn't actually tried for real and that y opposition made it fail before it could bear fruits. NYC went bankrupt right before it came back and reached one of it's peaks. And maybe hitting the bottom of the barrel was what it needed.
imgabe 5y ago
I'm sure it's skewed because of the Internet, but between Twitter and Hacker News it sounds like San Francisco is basically Somalia now.
- jerkstate 5y ago
  Most people I know who didn't see the writing on the wall and get out 2-3 years ago is looking for the exit fast. I only hope they understand when they leave that they voted for this outcome, over and over.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  I live in SF, and the comments you've seen on HN are accurate. It's not Somalia, but there's always the potential for escalation to violence on the street, in stores and near ATMs - I've seen it. I wouldn't allow any of my family to walk alone anywhere.
  - gruez 5y ago
    You're shadowbanned btw.
- tayo42 5y ago
  People love to hate San Francisco. Even before this current news cycle of pretty crime there were constant negative articles about sf.
  - scruple 5y ago
    I decided to stop going there back in 2015. It was embarrassing to bring a friend from Argentina to the city and have her regard it in the same light as the worst parts of Buenos Aires (that she had seen, anyway). It doesn't sound to me like things have improved...
- cyphertruck 5y ago
  I’m not taking offense wt your statement, but do want to say: You are being unkind to Somalia. I’m serious. The perception of Somalia is skewed heavily by western news for the simple reason that the Somali people rebuffed the attempted invasion by US & UK proxy forces. (Guessing you most Americans don’t know that even happened.) Somaliland isn't somewhere I would want to live, but I would pick it over the Bay Area. With an arrangement with the tribal elders, one would be safe, and property crimes like this would be dealt with by a judge. Unlike in SF.
throwaway1959 5y ago
I do not think that the current crime situation in San Francisco appeared by some fluke or an accident. Specific policies were put in place by the progressive government officials and progressive people in San Francisco voted for these policies. I think is a cautionary tale for the rest of the country on what happens when progressive utopia gets voted in.
- phsau 5y ago
  Which policies?
  - throwaway_dcnt 5y ago
    decarceration, even for repeat violent criminals and no penalties for property crime.
    - Clewza313 5y ago
      California already incarcerates 5x more people than any European country, and 10x more than the Nordics: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/CA.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/CA.html There are many, many problems in CA, but putting more people in jail is not going to solve any of them.
      - throw1123581321 5y ago
        > California already incarcerates 5x more people than any European country, and 10x more than the Nordics Well, most European and Nordic countries don't have 13% of the population committing 52% of the violent crime. So this is kind of an unfair comparison.
        Clewza313 5y ago
        Why? Immigrants, various ethnic and social minorities, and repeat offenders are overrepresented in Europe's crime stats as well. If anything, Europe tends to have much shorter sentences, so reoffenders can commit more crimes.
84fryb75 5y ago
In early 2020, before lockdown, I visited San Francisco as a tourist with my wife. We took a wrong turn at a book store and wound up on a street covered in feces. The next street was fine. Then on the next, we watched a homeless woman shoot up on the street. Then a supercar pulled into a garage. I'm not the best traveled, I'll admit, so I can't compare SF to foreign cities. I'm a simple hillbilly from the Southeast, but I lived in NY for a time and I've visited most of the big cities in the US. This was my third time in SF. Every time I've visited, since 2016 or so, I've collected another story like this. The homeless are way more aggressive than they are in Chicago or Texan cities. The feces. The crime. Now people are moving away. The author is in denial. San Francisco has nice weather and beautiful hills, but it is a really expensive shithole. A really, really expensive shithole. Now look at the leadership in the city, and ask yourself, who is responsible for this? I'm so glad I chose to live in Texas, but at this point I'd move to the Detroit area before San Francisco. At least the rent is good there. In any case, the census data shows I'm not alone. I just hope the Californians moving to Texas don't vote for the same laws that made San Francisco such a hole. Also, I've always refused to move to Silicon Valley, despite working in tech. I don't regret it.
- tayo42 5y ago
  SF's areas of poverty are mixed in with the highly visited areas and aren't really getting gentrified. Its easy to make a wrong turn. When you lived in NY did you go north of 110th st or further east then williamsburg?
  - aiisahik 5y ago
    I've lived in both SF and north of 110th street in NYC. I frequently visit tough parts of Bedstuy. There is absolutely no comparison - the worst parts of SF is much more dangerous than the worst parts of NYC. Expensive shithole is an appropriate description.
    - tayo42 5y ago
      A google search says in 2019 there were 41 murders in sf and 99 in brooklyn. though idk where to find crime by neighborhood. seems pretty equal when you account for population
helsinkiandrew 5y ago
> The police officer said he was glad to have the license plate number but that robbery is so low-profile in the courts right now that even if they did catch him, without video proof, the thieves would be let go within a day or so. So, the thieves go on to steal more - which adds up to costing victims hundreds of thousands of dollars whilst the thieves probably get a few thousands selling it to fences and second hand. I'm a fairly left leaning, liberal person but this is the kind of stuff a decent city should crack down on - lots of small thefts does far more damage to society than a single bank robbery.
- smegger001 5y ago
  at least with a bank robbery you aren't personally at a loss as all of your money is FDIC insured. And the cops take it seriously enough to do something about it so those committing the crime are more likely to be caught and forced to stop doing so for 10-30 years.
Ansil849 5y ago
Was the equipment not insured? This is the underlying point of theft coverage: the realization that even if police investigate a case, they will likely be unable to get the stolen items back.
- yubiox 5y ago
  Insurance is just a loan that you prepay small amounts for until you make a claim and then repay larger amounts for.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  This is what I always ask in these threads. Most homeowners and car insurance policies cover losses from theft in your home or car, minus maybe a deductible. Isn't this exactly the kind of thing insurance is for?
  - exporectomy 5y ago
    Insurance doesn't make sense for small losses that you can pay for yourself. If you don't like the feeling of paying for stolen things, you could be your own insurance company instead, putting the regular premium into a savings account that you spend only to replace lost items. Over your whole life, it'll average out. Plus you get the advantage of better aligned interests and no profit skimmed off the top. What insurance is good for is catastrophic costs that will probably never happen in your life but if they do, they'll ruin you. Things like crashing into a million dollar car or having your house burn down.
bosswipe 5y ago
A lot of people blame SF's prosecutor but that makes no sense, this is a policing problem. The police is lazy and won't do their job. The police union sees their role as deflecting blame while working as little as possible and collecting their six figure salaries. The reason to defund the police is because they're awful at their jobs, throwing more money after bad won't help. I know I'll be downvoted here because people already have their police-good progressives-bad narrative all set. But if you actually looked into SFPD's clearance rate you would know they're incompetent.
- caycep 5y ago
  I would agree with this seeing public statements by LASD (Villeneueva) here in LA and his colleagues in Riverside and Orange Counties, as well as counterparts in police unions, and also unofficial chatter on twitter and elsewhere. It's not so much "progressive policies: lax on crime" vs. a reform prosecutor is in town, and I suspect there is deliberate pullback by the police unions, to let crime increase and get them voted out and replaced by a more cop-friendly prosecutor. Factor in a not insignificant dose of squeamishness among police rank and file due to the pandemic (not unreasonable since first responders are at a higher risk of exposure) and policing isn't really optimal at the moment; at a time when the current economics foster desperation.
  - paulmd 5y ago
    yeah, not seeing how a $950 threshold for felony theft is causing a problem for the theft of $6000 of photography equipment, and I think that sounds like a pretty common limit for most areas. I think there is a definite element of the cops slow-walking enforcement to make a point and get a DA who they perceive as "having their back".
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  Policing problem? SF police is explicitly forbidden from arresting anyone for most misdemeanors. Criminals just get a citation, a court date, and are set on their way.
- kenneth 5y ago
cosmicexplorer 5y ago
I hope everyone in this thread talking about feeling unsafe understands they can leave San Francisco. Lived in the Tenderloin for almost 4 years now and this type of discussion always fills my throat with bile. Haven’t posted on HN for a long time but wanted to emphasize how little I think of this rhetoric. “Progressive policies”? Use your words.
- olivermarks 5y ago
  @cosmicexplorer I just donated some money this weekend to help tihs kid and her grandmother escape the Tenderloin. Supervisor Matt Haney is in cloud cuckoo land, the local politicians are ideological idiots. This is a disaster for the D party (I'm a registered Democrat). Kids shouldn't be growing up in streets littered with dead and dying addicts shooting up while drug dealers hover over them. It is an absolute disgrace. https://twitter.com/DTenderloine https://twitter.com/DTenderloine https://www.gofundme.com/f/5csnc-moving-expenses?utm_campaign=p_cf+share-flow-1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter https://www.gofundme.com/f/5csnc-moving-expenses?utm_campaig...
barnaclejive 5y ago
something something gun something
jypepin 5y ago
There are a lot of homeless and SF is indeed in shit hole in a lot of areas, but I don't understand people who say they wouldn't visit because it's not safe or whatever. Looking at crime rate rankings [0], SF is pretty low compared to other US cities both in terms or violant crimes and property crimes. What am I missing? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
- josephcsible 5y ago
  You're missing that the data in that page is from 2017, and Chesa Boudin didn't become DA until 2020.
  - gyc 5y ago
    George Gascon,the DA at the time, was also a so-called "progressive DA".
- chipotle_coyote 5y ago
  You're "missing" that San Francisco's policies (and to a degree California's as a whole) are always used as political footballs. Whatever the perceived issue is, it's always clearly due to [insert controversial policy and/or politician here, whether the controversy is genuine or imagined] and a sign of why San Francisco is always [the way of the future|an object lesson to others].
  - smsm42 5y ago
    I'd really like to see somebody claiming right now that Chesa Boudin's policies and their results are "the way of the future".
- smsm42 5y ago
  Compared to Medellín or Fallujah, it's probably even more safe. But I don't go to these places either. And compared to, say, just going to the beach, going there is much more dangerous, with pretty much zero benefits - even if I don't get mugged (which I most likely won't - I don't have anything valuable on me and I don't look like somebody inviting to be messed with) I will just end up being pissed off about how disgusting it all became. And then there's a risk they break a window in my car just because, if I go in a car. Or I step in somebody's poop. Why would I need all that trouble?
olivermarks 5y ago
SF District Attorney Chesa Boudin ran for office in November 2019 focusing his campaign on ending mass incarceration with restorative justice models, rather than punitive incarceral methods. Since then crime in SF has absolutely exploded, fuelled by proposition 47 which reduced stealing less than $900 day to a misdemeanor. Add in a massive opioid crisis and the result is a rapidly growing crisis of shoplifting, petty theft, home invasions, carjacking and general armed thuggery. The rapidly growing homeless population ( half US homeless are in California with migrants arriving daily) makes the situation worse with drug dealers preying on the vulnerable. I lived in San Francisco for close to 25 years and am now 50 miles north. I'll be in the city tomorrow. I have never seen it this bad, or seen so many predators watching and waiting to strike. It's still a beautiful place, but you really need to keep your wits about you and stay aware at all times.
- imgabe 5y ago
  It seems like a group of 10 concerned citizens could get together and steal $9000 per day from Chesa Boudin until he realizes this is a bad policy.
  - epicureanideal 5y ago
    The politicians would find a way to charge you for it, because the law in the USA is applied in an arbitrary and capricious manner. If you're not a political opponent of them, they'll let the law operate (or not) as it normally would. If you're a political opponent, they'll scour the laws to find something to get you with, or at least prosecute you until you're bankrupt even knowing they won't convict. See also: "By the people" by Charles Murray "Three felonies a day" by Harvey Silverglate
    - artificial 5y ago
      How’s that working out in practice in San Fran?
    - fighterpilot 5y ago
      It needs to be a decentralized protest effort where the risk is shared. 100 individual actors stealing $899 of stuff from his garden over the course of a year and disappearing into the night until he gets the message. Would air to great effect on Fox news. Unfortunately the political right is unbelievably bad at protest efforts.
almost_usual 5y ago
SF is a weird city crime wise, lots of property crime and theft. Occasional shootings but nothing like a rust belt war zone city. San Francisco’s crime is mostly inconvenient for rich people, that’s why it’s in the news. St. Louis is the 13th most dangerous city in the world but you won’t hear about it. https://www.statista.com/statistics/243797/ranking-of-the-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world-by-murder-rate-per-capita/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/243797/ranking-of-the-mo...
- 8ytecoder 5y ago
  Probably just that the contrast is so stark.
- ajmurmann 5y ago
  The NIMBY cost of living problem is definitely huge add little annoys me more. I do wonder though if that's truly the cause for the high homelessness. Where are the homeless from? Are the from SF or other parts of CA or even came there from other states because of good weather and comparatively soft treatment they receive in SF? Genuine question. I've on several occasions tried to find statistics on this, but failed.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - almost_usual 5y ago
    I would imagine they are from all over the US.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    "The NIMBY cost of living problem is definitely huge add little annoys me more." it's not hugely relevant to the problem. California is massive, and 99.5% of it's land is available for most kinds of development. Citizens of a community have every right to decide how it should be managed. Most 'high income / high property prices' places in the US in the world do not have this kind of crime problem - generally it's the other way around. Gentrification for all it's good/bad elements generally leads to a reduction in crime.
kenneth 5y ago
>My story originally happened to run on the same day the New York Times did a piece on the growing problem of shoplifting in the city and the reluctance of local law enforcement to police minor thefts. Clearly, this is a trend that will not play well politically and will result in changes sooner rather than later. I found this naive optimism almost hilarious. SF is in no way about to magically get better once voters finally wake up to how terrible their choices have been over the previous decades. The city's disintegration was a long time in the making and is beyond fixable.
- smsm42 5y ago
  That sounds like American coming to the USSR, seeing a line in from of the bread store and saying "well, it must be some stupid store manager that forgot to order enough bread, he'll surely be fired soon after citizens complain, and everything will return to normal!"
  - jjcc 5y ago
    My interpretation would be: voters will never wake up. A more accurate version might be, that statistically voters can not wake up together with some consensus so the problem can be fixed. It's a feature of the system, not a bug. Citizens should accept and live with it.
- dude187 5y ago
  I wouldn't be so pessimistic as to call it "beyond fixable". It just takes a real effort at restoring law and order, where people who commit crimes know they will be attacked for doing so. That there's an expectation that they will be worse off for committing those crimes than if they were to not do so. A direct juxtaposition of the status quo where most of these people see "not stealing" as a less optimum outcome than "steal something and gain more stuff/money". Granted, that's a tall order, but not a cycle that cities in the US have not had to go through in the past. The hardest part as I see it, is that at it's core it takes a political shift away from the kind of "progressives" that view those committing the crimes as the victims and those being victimized as the "oppressors". The challenge is how to make people wake up and see it before things hit even more of a rock bottom. Not just see it, but vote out those who do not and vote in people who actually make protecting victims of crime as their top priority.
robarr 5y ago
Some Maps and statistics to confirm or refute one’s perception about San Francisco: https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim... https://www.crimemapping.com/map/ca/sanfrancisco https://www.crimemapping.com/map/ca/sanfrancisco I should add that I am not a US citizen nor I live in the US. I live in a 10 million inhabitants south American capital, where Tv reports on crimes of all sorts committed every day. I, however, have not been robbed in the last twenty five years. Sometimes personal experiences do not reflect geography and statistics. Edit: comment line.
psychomugs 5y ago
It was my last day in SF after a semester-long internship, and I decided to take photos around downtown. I was passing through Union Square on my way home when I saw a guy weaving through traffic, with two people chasing after him and yelling at him to give something back. I instinctively started booking it after him, caught up to him in the middle of a food truck area, grabbed him by his hoodie collar, and pinned him down while I waited for the pursuers to catch up. It turns out he ran out of their shoe store with a pair that he was trying on. While I was holding him down, I realized that I still had my camera in my hand, and I instinctively took photos during the whole ordeal [1]. Between this episode and others I’ve seen or heard about (buckets of literal shit in the streets, friends-of-friends getting mugged in broad daylight, sometimes right outside their apartments), SF is really low on the list of places I want to live in. [1] https://www.instagram.com/p/BrtlSaPAMNG/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BrtlSaPAMNG/
- chrischen 5y ago
  Nobody comes to live in SF because of those things you experienced. They come for the sweet VC money, jobs at Facebook and Google. And likewise, criminals come because that money exists there too.
  - threwawasy1228 5y ago
    There is VC money in NYC, Chicago, Boston, and Seattle, and I can work at Google or Facebook from most of those cities. I will never move to SF in the condition it is in, and I'm sure many other people feel the same. These opportunities exist elsewhere.
    - chrischen 5y ago
      So... why did the people move to SF? To step in poop? Those jobs exist elsewhere, but not at the numbers they exist at in SF and the surrounding area. Most young people who move to The Bay Area would then end up moving to SF because it's the closest "real" city.
      - 5y ago
aronowb14 5y ago
Is anybody else getting tired of the constant stream of inflammatory posts ragging on San Francisco or the Bay Area? I feel like I've been seeing one every one or two days that make it to the top of HN. These types of posts just seem to fit into this ongoing narrative that SF (and relatedly, silicon valley), are all falling apart due to poor governance. It's beginning to feel like a strong echo chamber in here. What really irks me though is on this and the recent post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27241085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27241085 the associated comments and discussion don't really seem to have any real substance to them, and seem to revolve around one side saying "I visited and it is horrible!!!" vs the other side saying "I visited and it isn't horrible!!!". This type of pure anecdotal arguing irks me because I really do love Hackernews as a source of interesting and rational discussion, and keeping ourselves to that standard would be super amazing, especially with complex topics like this one. Homelessness and crime in SF are not single cause topics, (it's not just bad governance that causes them) and the tech exodus does not mean the city is dying.
- jollybean 5y ago
  Well when police end up killing someone, it's usually anecdotal now isn't it? If the anecdote is representative of some kind of trend, then it's worth examining because the 'visceral reality' of these crimes are better understood. Having 7K in camera gear robbed in broad daylight by rando's in a Honda gives us a hint of understanding of what's happening. Aside from the 'Justice System changes' and COVID, we may very well be entering a kind of new phase in social culture. The thought of such a thing happening many decades ago, before massive increase in crime in the 1960's would have shocked people. They had different kinds of 'bad things' then. This kind of brazen crime should be very, very rare in regular, civilized places.
- tayo42 5y ago
  Yeah its tiring to see the negativity. Ill share my thought that's likely to attract some negative attention... I think it's interesting this shows up a lot on tech discussion site. I see it here, I see similar sentiments on reddit too. Some of it I'm willing to bet is based in insecurity. Sf and the bay area is where a lot of the best work, hardest to get jobs are, prestigious companies exist and compensation is highest. There's people who are to scared to take the risk and move, or scared to see that they can't cut it and aren't as good or smart as they think they are. So they do things like convince them selves they don't want to be in SF, they repeat the ideas there's to much crime, its to liberal, the col is to high. Then shit post on the internet about it. We end up with these discussions not based in reality.
kyleblarson 5y ago
SF voters made their bed and now they get to sleep in it.
marsven_422 5y ago
Voteing Democrat has consequences.
xrd 5y ago
Is it not an obvious question to ask whether this is really just about "progressive politics" and not actually about "pandemic and lack of social safety net + police unions responding to protests threatening their jobs + insane cost of living?"
chrischen 5y ago
FYI this type of stuff was happening in SF well before Chesa Boudin. An SF local news crew was robbed (and shot) while reporting in Oakland (https://deadline.com/2019/02/san-francisco-news-crew-robbed-security-guard-shot-suspects-in-custody-1202564781/ https://deadline.com/2019/02/san-francisco-news-crew-robbed-...). More recently an SF news crew was robbed while reporting on car breakins, granted this was during Boudin's tenure. Maybe Chesa Boudin's policies aren't helping, but whatever we had before wasn't working either, and with the pandemic happening at the same time I think it's unfair to solely put the blame on him due to confounding variables. I lived in SF for almost 10 years and it seemed like property crime crime was gradually ticking up well before Chesa Boudin. The easy culprit to blame is honestly just massive and growing income inequality. If you really want a solution to the problem, close off SF from the rest of the poor United States, or lower the income inequality.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > FYI this type of stuff was happening in SF well before Chesa Boudin. An SF local news crew was robbed (and shot) while reporting in Oakland That’s...not an example on anything happening in SF. It’s an example of things happening outside of SF to people working out of SF.
  - chrischen 5y ago
    It's pretty close, and many of the criminals commute (for free) from Oakland. But my point still stands, crime (property crime at least) was going up over the last decade (https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/us/ca/san-francisco/property-crime-rate-statistics https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/us/ca/san-francisco/prope... - click Property Crime tab).
alexalx 5y ago
Carry a gun.
senbarryobama 5y ago
Does anyone have a counter to the SF pile-on? This is heartbreaking to hear as someone who wants to work in tech in the Bay Area (and is resigned to live in the city as a single)
stephencoyner 5y ago
I’ve lived next to golden gate park and the presidio for close to 5 years and they have never been anything but clean, beautiful and well maintained. I have never seen any crime in my neighborhood first hand. I often walk at night to enjoy some fresh air and have never felt unsafe. The city really changes greatly depending on where you are. So when I see the comments that blanket everything together as a giant failure it seems a bit unfair. This is in contrast to other cities like Seattle where many parks are a mess and the streets haven’t been paved since 1925. SF has many large problems, but it also still has immense natural beauty and glorious areas. All is not lost
valuearb 5y ago
Forget it Jefferson, it’s Chinatown, er, San Francisco.
- valuearb 5y ago
  It amuses AND saddens me that a downvoter didn’t get the reference to “Chinatown”, an all time great film
pertymcpert 5y ago
Ton of cities? Please, elaborate. Across the world I’ve never felt as dirty and disturbed as I have in SF. No other cities with homeless have ever felt like this.
raspasov 5y ago
There are problems in SF, but they are not new. Not at all. Everyone who thinks that SF has somehow magically turned into sh*thole in the last N months: no it hasn't. I've lived in SF since mid-2011 continuously. It's been about the same, give or take. P.S. It is unfortunate his gear got stollen. Hope the criminals get some justice.
29athrowaway 5y ago
There is this documentary called "Seattle is dying" by KOMO news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw The situation in this documentary is similar to SF.
gabereiser 5y ago
Crime across the US is up. In Denver, car thefts and break ins were common to the point where police didn’t even show up. I was involved in a head on collision and the cops said it would be 4 hours before a unit would arrive. After waiting 3 I called and was told “just get the other drivers information” (like I hadn’t already) and leave. I couldn’t leave, obviously. I quickly moved away from the city to another state. I’m still out $23,000 for my vehicle because insurance wouldn’t pay without a police report. Crime is up all over America.
ultimoo 5y ago
Strange to see this happen at Crissy Field, which is decidedly in the "nicer part" of the city. Car break ins are common at the Palace of Fine Arts (about a mile away from where this incident happened), but most people would consider Crissy Field as a relatively safe place in the city where it's common to let your guard down (unlike at say Union Square).
robsf 5y ago
pretty messed up that the cops won't do anything even with a picture of the license plate on the getaway car. thieves know this which is why they continue to rob so brazenly. another consequence of growing wealth inequality. when you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose. relatedly, i moved out of sf last year after about 5 years there. i really love the geography and other aspects, but couldn't live comfortably anywhere in the bay area while saving any money even with a $200k/year tech job. who is SF for?
ayngg 5y ago
As a casual outside observer, it feels like a lot of people are throwing the blame in one direction or another, but while crime may be bad in SF, the level of crime in general is bad in most metro areas in the United States when compared to other developed nations. So there are probably bigger, more fundamental issues at play. SF itself is interesting in that they are so wealthy, and so much power is centralized there, yet it feels like their policy is either ineffective or makes things worse. Like how can a city so rich have things like a feces problem so bad that people make poop maps to track it, and rows of people abusing drugs in bart stations during the day? It isn't just crime, it seems like there is so much "societal debt," issues that needed to be addressed but were instead kicked down the road. Policy makers are either paralyzed/ gridlocked and cannot even attempt to fix things because they are already in over their head with all the accumulated problems that appear to be festering and getting worse, or they have been captured by powerful interest groups that prescribe selfish policies at the expense of the public. This leads to whatever actual policy happening being something that is akin to releasing a bunch of coyotes to solve the rabbit problem, only then to be left with a coyote problem, escalating up the chain of trying to solve smaller problems while simultaneously introducing larger ones. The crime, working and middle class insecurity, homelessness, issues with law enforcement, overwhelmed judiciary, captured/ gridlocked legislature, drug abuse, the crisis in mental health, race and demographic changes and whatever else. All of things are big issues, and the United States is dealing with them all at once, causing all of them to cascade into each other and exacerbate everything. It is probably so overwhelming that it is extremely difficult to address in a system that requires elect-ability in the short term. It is probably really hard to get elected on a platform of completing step 1 of a 50 step platform that would take years more than you have to implement. On top of it all, these things can hardly be discussed in when everything is so polarized, everyone is too busy preaching to their base and blaming the other, and they are all pretty much is in a continuous state of whiplash from the spin of news media working in overdrive, who are themselves also fighting for their own existence too. For most people, things probably feel like they have been falling apart for years, decades even, while the well off have hardly noticed a difference at all. I don't even know how you would begin to dissect this situation.
RickJWagner 5y ago
Seems almost surreal, coming from a rural state. I completely understand the California exodus. I strongly hope things turn around and California again becomes a 'golden state'.
underseacables 5y ago
I lived in the Noe Valley in 2006-2009 and really loved it. I went back in 2016 and things have changed so horribly. San Francisco is imploding and while the solutions are simple, I don’t get the impression the politicians have the courage to implement them.
silexia 5y ago
I visited Orange County and west Pasadena this month; both were free from homeless and it was wonderful. Then I spent time in LA and Long Beach and the homeless made the experience very unsafe and disgusting. Now that I have kids, I will not be returning to places that tolerate the drugs, crime, and poop on the street the homeless bring. The homeless are bums and should be treated as such. Too many benefits and too much sympathy are given to them, and this results in places becoming hellish to live for normal people.

192 points by rawgabbit 5y ago

> The police officer said he was glad to have the license plate number but that robbery is so low-profile in the courts right now that even if they did catch him, without video proof, the thieves would be let go within a day or so. Even with video proof, there's a good chance that Chesa would drop all charges anyway. Related topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27216343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27216343

KwisatzHaderack 5y ago
At this point, Chesa Boudin might as well give the thieves a pat on the back and congratulate them for their enterprising spirit.
jonahhorowitz 5y ago
Why would you say that and not: the cops in San Francisco have an agenda, and that agenda is getting rid of Chesa. They have this agenda because he charged a few of them with crimes. The cops are going around blaming Chesa for every problem, while simultainously having one of the worst clearance rates in the country.[1][2] Also, organized crime might be responsible for the shoplifting, which wouldn't really fit the Chesa/Prop 47 narrative.[3] >To prosecute, the district attorney has pursued aggregated charges for multiple petty theft incidents by the same person, such as a recent case of stolen scooters. [1] - https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/This-is-how-the-pandemic-changed-crime-in-every-16107691.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/This-is-how-the-pa... [2] - https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/clearance-rates-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/clea... [3]- https://www.sfchronicle.com/local-politics/article/Out-of-control-Organized-crime-drives-S-F-16175755.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/local-politics/article/Out-of-co...
xiphias2 5y ago
Can't a person go to supreme court in that case?
- josephcsible 5y ago
  No. The legal system doesn't work that way.

premium-komodo 5y ago

Yes, that seems to be how it is in SF. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arss9V3A1VA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arss9V3A1VA Is it possible that, despite good intentions, the policies being implemented there actually have very harmful effects?

jwilber 5y ago
Yeah, I think that hits the nail on the head. The nimby problem, on the other hand, shows how selfish intentions can also lead to very harmful effects. Spent 5 years there and am not envious of anyone living in the Bay at all.
- chrischen 5y ago
  I actually think NIMBYism isn't a San Francisco specific problem. It was just brought to the forefront because many people decided to move there all of a sudden. But the reality is most popular places have people choosing to protect their property values.
  - jwilber 5y ago
    This rings true, although it’s hard to think of cities where the issue has resulted in as much harm as in SF.
cyphertruck 5y ago
These harmful effects are intended. That is the strategy. Its important to understand why. Your life depends on it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- imgabe 5y ago
  Why? I mean, you can't tell people their life depends on knowing something and then not tell them.

fortran77 5y ago

My CA home, in Sunnyvale, is about 40 miles south of SF. I never go up to SF anymore, and I won't take meetings there. People who visit from out of town ask to go up to the city, and I won't take them. My life and personal safety is more important. I admire Jefferson (the man whose camera was stolen) for being so gracious about it. But he shouldn't blame himself.

LeoPanthera 5y ago
This is nonsensical. San Francisco's crime problem doesn't extend to the peninsula.
- smsm42 5y ago
  It mostly does not. San Jose still has deep trouble with homeless camps, that is getting worse (and more widespread) year by year, so I imagine crime will get worse - thought not as bad as in SF, most Valley municipalities aren't as insane as the shining beacon of insanity in San Francisco, neither their inhabitants would likely tolerate these levels of craziness for long.
  - asdff 5y ago
    If it's anything like the smaller cities in LA county, they probably use the police to push off the homeless across the border. Culver city and santa monica are notorious for this practice.
    - smsm42 5y ago
      Judging by the size of the camps and the amount of stuff there, the police is not moving anybody anywhere. Pre-pandemic, there was a cleanup effort every 4-6 months where things went back to the usual within a week or so. Last year, not even that.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Property crime is at least getting common enough in the South Bay to warrant parking lots posting signs warning people to stow their luggage in their trunks. Seems like car break-in culture has spread beyond S.F.

dmagee 5y ago

https://recallchesaboudin.org/ https://recallchesaboudin.org/

smsm42 5y ago
They just elected him a year ago. He didn't change since then. He promised to do exactly what he did - release criminals from jails to the streets, reduce policing and de-emphasize small crime enforcement. This is exactly what is happening now. Why would anybody want to recall him for doing exactly what they elected him to do?
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > Why would anybody want to recall him for doing exactly what they elected him to do? Because people thought that what he promised to do was good until they saw firsthand the consequences of it.
  - smsm42 5y ago
    But do they? I'm still not sure they actually do.
mardifoufs 5y ago
What's the point? His policies are what the local population were asking or even begging for. Even if the recall is successful, you will just get you a carbon copy. He is not using his position of power to abuse a powerless electorate, so why not let the local experiment go on? Even if you are against it, you should still want that experiment to continue right? Otherwise you would get people claiming that x policy wasn't actually tried for real and that y opposition made it fail before it could bear fruits. NYC went bankrupt right before it came back and reached one of it's peaks. And maybe hitting the bottom of the barrel was what it needed.

imgabe 5y ago

I'm sure it's skewed because of the Internet, but between Twitter and Hacker News it sounds like San Francisco is basically Somalia now.

jerkstate 5y ago
Most people I know who didn't see the writing on the wall and get out 2-3 years ago is looking for the exit fast. I only hope they understand when they leave that they voted for this outcome, over and over.
redis_mlc 5y ago
I live in SF, and the comments you've seen on HN are accurate. It's not Somalia, but there's always the potential for escalation to violence on the street, in stores and near ATMs - I've seen it. I wouldn't allow any of my family to walk alone anywhere.
- gruez 5y ago
  You're shadowbanned btw.
tayo42 5y ago
People love to hate San Francisco. Even before this current news cycle of pretty crime there were constant negative articles about sf.
- scruple 5y ago
  I decided to stop going there back in 2015. It was embarrassing to bring a friend from Argentina to the city and have her regard it in the same light as the worst parts of Buenos Aires (that she had seen, anyway). It doesn't sound to me like things have improved...
cyphertruck 5y ago
I’m not taking offense wt your statement, but do want to say: You are being unkind to Somalia. I’m serious. The perception of Somalia is skewed heavily by western news for the simple reason that the Somali people rebuffed the attempted invasion by US & UK proxy forces. (Guessing you most Americans don’t know that even happened.) Somaliland isn't somewhere I would want to live, but I would pick it over the Bay Area. With an arrangement with the tribal elders, one would be safe, and property crimes like this would be dealt with by a judge. Unlike in SF.

throwaway1959 5y ago

I do not think that the current crime situation in San Francisco appeared by some fluke or an accident. Specific policies were put in place by the progressive government officials and progressive people in San Francisco voted for these policies. I think is a cautionary tale for the rest of the country on what happens when progressive utopia gets voted in.

phsau 5y ago
Which policies?
- throwaway_dcnt 5y ago
  decarceration, even for repeat violent criminals and no penalties for property crime.
  - Clewza313 5y ago
    California already incarcerates 5x more people than any European country, and 10x more than the Nordics: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/CA.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/CA.html There are many, many problems in CA, but putting more people in jail is not going to solve any of them.
    - throw1123581321 5y ago
      > California already incarcerates 5x more people than any European country, and 10x more than the Nordics Well, most European and Nordic countries don't have 13% of the population committing 52% of the violent crime. So this is kind of an unfair comparison.
      - Clewza313 5y ago
        Why? Immigrants, various ethnic and social minorities, and repeat offenders are overrepresented in Europe's crime stats as well. If anything, Europe tends to have much shorter sentences, so reoffenders can commit more crimes.

84fryb75 5y ago

In early 2020, before lockdown, I visited San Francisco as a tourist with my wife. We took a wrong turn at a book store and wound up on a street covered in feces. The next street was fine. Then on the next, we watched a homeless woman shoot up on the street. Then a supercar pulled into a garage. I'm not the best traveled, I'll admit, so I can't compare SF to foreign cities. I'm a simple hillbilly from the Southeast, but I lived in NY for a time and I've visited most of the big cities in the US. This was my third time in SF. Every time I've visited, since 2016 or so, I've collected another story like this. The homeless are way more aggressive than they are in Chicago or Texan cities. The feces. The crime. Now people are moving away. The author is in denial. San Francisco has nice weather and beautiful hills, but it is a really expensive shithole. A really, really expensive shithole. Now look at the leadership in the city, and ask yourself, who is responsible for this? I'm so glad I chose to live in Texas, but at this point I'd move to the Detroit area before San Francisco. At least the rent is good there. In any case, the census data shows I'm not alone. I just hope the Californians moving to Texas don't vote for the same laws that made San Francisco such a hole. Also, I've always refused to move to Silicon Valley, despite working in tech. I don't regret it.

tayo42 5y ago
SF's areas of poverty are mixed in with the highly visited areas and aren't really getting gentrified. Its easy to make a wrong turn. When you lived in NY did you go north of 110th st or further east then williamsburg?
- aiisahik 5y ago
  I've lived in both SF and north of 110th street in NYC. I frequently visit tough parts of Bedstuy. There is absolutely no comparison - the worst parts of SF is much more dangerous than the worst parts of NYC. Expensive shithole is an appropriate description.
  - tayo42 5y ago
    A google search says in 2019 there were 41 murders in sf and 99 in brooklyn. though idk where to find crime by neighborhood. seems pretty equal when you account for population

helsinkiandrew 5y ago

> The police officer said he was glad to have the license plate number but that robbery is so low-profile in the courts right now that even if they did catch him, without video proof, the thieves would be let go within a day or so. So, the thieves go on to steal more - which adds up to costing victims hundreds of thousands of dollars whilst the thieves probably get a few thousands selling it to fences and second hand. I'm a fairly left leaning, liberal person but this is the kind of stuff a decent city should crack down on - lots of small thefts does far more damage to society than a single bank robbery.

smegger001 5y ago
at least with a bank robbery you aren't personally at a loss as all of your money is FDIC insured. And the cops take it seriously enough to do something about it so those committing the crime are more likely to be caught and forced to stop doing so for 10-30 years.

Ansil849 5y ago

Was the equipment not insured? This is the underlying point of theft coverage: the realization that even if police investigate a case, they will likely be unable to get the stolen items back.

yubiox 5y ago
Insurance is just a loan that you prepay small amounts for until you make a claim and then repay larger amounts for.
ryandrake 5y ago
This is what I always ask in these threads. Most homeowners and car insurance policies cover losses from theft in your home or car, minus maybe a deductible. Isn't this exactly the kind of thing insurance is for?
- exporectomy 5y ago
  Insurance doesn't make sense for small losses that you can pay for yourself. If you don't like the feeling of paying for stolen things, you could be your own insurance company instead, putting the regular premium into a savings account that you spend only to replace lost items. Over your whole life, it'll average out. Plus you get the advantage of better aligned interests and no profit skimmed off the top. What insurance is good for is catastrophic costs that will probably never happen in your life but if they do, they'll ruin you. Things like crashing into a million dollar car or having your house burn down.

bosswipe 5y ago

A lot of people blame SF's prosecutor but that makes no sense, this is a policing problem. The police is lazy and won't do their job. The police union sees their role as deflecting blame while working as little as possible and collecting their six figure salaries. The reason to defund the police is because they're awful at their jobs, throwing more money after bad won't help. I know I'll be downvoted here because people already have their police-good progressives-bad narrative all set. But if you actually looked into SFPD's clearance rate you would know they're incompetent.

caycep 5y ago
I would agree with this seeing public statements by LASD (Villeneueva) here in LA and his colleagues in Riverside and Orange Counties, as well as counterparts in police unions, and also unofficial chatter on twitter and elsewhere. It's not so much "progressive policies: lax on crime" vs. a reform prosecutor is in town, and I suspect there is deliberate pullback by the police unions, to let crime increase and get them voted out and replaced by a more cop-friendly prosecutor. Factor in a not insignificant dose of squeamishness among police rank and file due to the pandemic (not unreasonable since first responders are at a higher risk of exposure) and policing isn't really optimal at the moment; at a time when the current economics foster desperation.
- paulmd 5y ago
  yeah, not seeing how a $950 threshold for felony theft is causing a problem for the theft of $6000 of photography equipment, and I think that sounds like a pretty common limit for most areas. I think there is a definite element of the cops slow-walking enforcement to make a point and get a DA who they perceive as "having their back".
xyzzyz 5y ago
Policing problem? SF police is explicitly forbidden from arresting anyone for most misdemeanors. Criminals just get a citation, a court date, and are set on their way.
kenneth 5y ago

cosmicexplorer 5y ago

I hope everyone in this thread talking about feeling unsafe understands they can leave San Francisco. Lived in the Tenderloin for almost 4 years now and this type of discussion always fills my throat with bile. Haven’t posted on HN for a long time but wanted to emphasize how little I think of this rhetoric. “Progressive policies”? Use your words.

olivermarks 5y ago
@cosmicexplorer I just donated some money this weekend to help tihs kid and her grandmother escape the Tenderloin. Supervisor Matt Haney is in cloud cuckoo land, the local politicians are ideological idiots. This is a disaster for the D party (I'm a registered Democrat). Kids shouldn't be growing up in streets littered with dead and dying addicts shooting up while drug dealers hover over them. It is an absolute disgrace. https://twitter.com/DTenderloine https://twitter.com/DTenderloine https://www.gofundme.com/f/5csnc-moving-expenses?utm_campaign=p_cf+share-flow-1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter https://www.gofundme.com/f/5csnc-moving-expenses?utm_campaig...

barnaclejive 5y ago

something something gun something

jypepin 5y ago

There are a lot of homeless and SF is indeed in shit hole in a lot of areas, but I don't understand people who say they wouldn't visit because it's not safe or whatever. Looking at crime rate rankings [0], SF is pretty low compared to other US cities both in terms or violant crimes and property crimes. What am I missing? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

josephcsible 5y ago
You're missing that the data in that page is from 2017, and Chesa Boudin didn't become DA until 2020.
- gyc 5y ago
  George Gascon,the DA at the time, was also a so-called "progressive DA".
chipotle_coyote 5y ago
You're "missing" that San Francisco's policies (and to a degree California's as a whole) are always used as political footballs. Whatever the perceived issue is, it's always clearly due to [insert controversial policy and/or politician here, whether the controversy is genuine or imagined] and a sign of why San Francisco is always [the way of the future|an object lesson to others].
- smsm42 5y ago
  I'd really like to see somebody claiming right now that Chesa Boudin's policies and their results are "the way of the future".
smsm42 5y ago
Compared to Medellín or Fallujah, it's probably even more safe. But I don't go to these places either. And compared to, say, just going to the beach, going there is much more dangerous, with pretty much zero benefits - even if I don't get mugged (which I most likely won't - I don't have anything valuable on me and I don't look like somebody inviting to be messed with) I will just end up being pissed off about how disgusting it all became. And then there's a risk they break a window in my car just because, if I go in a car. Or I step in somebody's poop. Why would I need all that trouble?

olivermarks 5y ago

SF District Attorney Chesa Boudin ran for office in November 2019 focusing his campaign on ending mass incarceration with restorative justice models, rather than punitive incarceral methods. Since then crime in SF has absolutely exploded, fuelled by proposition 47 which reduced stealing less than $900 day to a misdemeanor. Add in a massive opioid crisis and the result is a rapidly growing crisis of shoplifting, petty theft, home invasions, carjacking and general armed thuggery. The rapidly growing homeless population ( half US homeless are in California with migrants arriving daily) makes the situation worse with drug dealers preying on the vulnerable. I lived in San Francisco for close to 25 years and am now 50 miles north. I'll be in the city tomorrow. I have never seen it this bad, or seen so many predators watching and waiting to strike. It's still a beautiful place, but you really need to keep your wits about you and stay aware at all times.

imgabe 5y ago
It seems like a group of 10 concerned citizens could get together and steal $9000 per day from Chesa Boudin until he realizes this is a bad policy.
- epicureanideal 5y ago
  The politicians would find a way to charge you for it, because the law in the USA is applied in an arbitrary and capricious manner. If you're not a political opponent of them, they'll let the law operate (or not) as it normally would. If you're a political opponent, they'll scour the laws to find something to get you with, or at least prosecute you until you're bankrupt even knowing they won't convict. See also: "By the people" by Charles Murray "Three felonies a day" by Harvey Silverglate
  - artificial 5y ago
    How’s that working out in practice in San Fran?
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    It needs to be a decentralized protest effort where the risk is shared. 100 individual actors stealing $899 of stuff from his garden over the course of a year and disappearing into the night until he gets the message. Would air to great effect on Fox news. Unfortunately the political right is unbelievably bad at protest efforts.

almost_usual 5y ago

SF is a weird city crime wise, lots of property crime and theft. Occasional shootings but nothing like a rust belt war zone city. San Francisco’s crime is mostly inconvenient for rich people, that’s why it’s in the news. St. Louis is the 13th most dangerous city in the world but you won’t hear about it. https://www.statista.com/statistics/243797/ranking-of-the-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world-by-murder-rate-per-capita/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/243797/ranking-of-the-mo...

8ytecoder 5y ago
Probably just that the contrast is so stark.
ajmurmann 5y ago
The NIMBY cost of living problem is definitely huge add little annoys me more. I do wonder though if that's truly the cause for the high homelessness. Where are the homeless from? Are the from SF or other parts of CA or even came there from other states because of good weather and comparatively soft treatment they receive in SF? Genuine question. I've on several occasions tried to find statistics on this, but failed.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- almost_usual 5y ago
  I would imagine they are from all over the US.
- jollybean 5y ago
  "The NIMBY cost of living problem is definitely huge add little annoys me more." it's not hugely relevant to the problem. California is massive, and 99.5% of it's land is available for most kinds of development. Citizens of a community have every right to decide how it should be managed. Most 'high income / high property prices' places in the US in the world do not have this kind of crime problem - generally it's the other way around. Gentrification for all it's good/bad elements generally leads to a reduction in crime.

kenneth 5y ago

>My story originally happened to run on the same day the New York Times did a piece on the growing problem of shoplifting in the city and the reluctance of local law enforcement to police minor thefts. Clearly, this is a trend that will not play well politically and will result in changes sooner rather than later. I found this naive optimism almost hilarious. SF is in no way about to magically get better once voters finally wake up to how terrible their choices have been over the previous decades. The city's disintegration was a long time in the making and is beyond fixable.

smsm42 5y ago
That sounds like American coming to the USSR, seeing a line in from of the bread store and saying "well, it must be some stupid store manager that forgot to order enough bread, he'll surely be fired soon after citizens complain, and everything will return to normal!"
- jjcc 5y ago
  My interpretation would be: voters will never wake up. A more accurate version might be, that statistically voters can not wake up together with some consensus so the problem can be fixed. It's a feature of the system, not a bug. Citizens should accept and live with it.
dude187 5y ago
I wouldn't be so pessimistic as to call it "beyond fixable". It just takes a real effort at restoring law and order, where people who commit crimes know they will be attacked for doing so. That there's an expectation that they will be worse off for committing those crimes than if they were to not do so. A direct juxtaposition of the status quo where most of these people see "not stealing" as a less optimum outcome than "steal something and gain more stuff/money". Granted, that's a tall order, but not a cycle that cities in the US have not had to go through in the past. The hardest part as I see it, is that at it's core it takes a political shift away from the kind of "progressives" that view those committing the crimes as the victims and those being victimized as the "oppressors". The challenge is how to make people wake up and see it before things hit even more of a rock bottom. Not just see it, but vote out those who do not and vote in people who actually make protecting victims of crime as their top priority.

robarr 5y ago

Some Maps and statistics to confirm or refute one’s perception about San Francisco: https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/crime https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim... https://www.crimemapping.com/map/ca/sanfrancisco https://www.crimemapping.com/map/ca/sanfrancisco I should add that I am not a US citizen nor I live in the US. I live in a 10 million inhabitants south American capital, where Tv reports on crimes of all sorts committed every day. I, however, have not been robbed in the last twenty five years. Sometimes personal experiences do not reflect geography and statistics. Edit: comment line.

psychomugs 5y ago

It was my last day in SF after a semester-long internship, and I decided to take photos around downtown. I was passing through Union Square on my way home when I saw a guy weaving through traffic, with two people chasing after him and yelling at him to give something back. I instinctively started booking it after him, caught up to him in the middle of a food truck area, grabbed him by his hoodie collar, and pinned him down while I waited for the pursuers to catch up. It turns out he ran out of their shoe store with a pair that he was trying on. While I was holding him down, I realized that I still had my camera in my hand, and I instinctively took photos during the whole ordeal [1]. Between this episode and others I’ve seen or heard about (buckets of literal shit in the streets, friends-of-friends getting mugged in broad daylight, sometimes right outside their apartments), SF is really low on the list of places I want to live in. [1] https://www.instagram.com/p/BrtlSaPAMNG/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BrtlSaPAMNG/

chrischen 5y ago
Nobody comes to live in SF because of those things you experienced. They come for the sweet VC money, jobs at Facebook and Google. And likewise, criminals come because that money exists there too.
- threwawasy1228 5y ago
  There is VC money in NYC, Chicago, Boston, and Seattle, and I can work at Google or Facebook from most of those cities. I will never move to SF in the condition it is in, and I'm sure many other people feel the same. These opportunities exist elsewhere.
  - chrischen 5y ago
    So... why did the people move to SF? To step in poop? Those jobs exist elsewhere, but not at the numbers they exist at in SF and the surrounding area. Most young people who move to The Bay Area would then end up moving to SF because it's the closest "real" city.
    - 5y ago

aronowb14 5y ago

Is anybody else getting tired of the constant stream of inflammatory posts ragging on San Francisco or the Bay Area? I feel like I've been seeing one every one or two days that make it to the top of HN. These types of posts just seem to fit into this ongoing narrative that SF (and relatedly, silicon valley), are all falling apart due to poor governance. It's beginning to feel like a strong echo chamber in here. What really irks me though is on this and the recent post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27241085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27241085 the associated comments and discussion don't really seem to have any real substance to them, and seem to revolve around one side saying "I visited and it is horrible!!!" vs the other side saying "I visited and it isn't horrible!!!". This type of pure anecdotal arguing irks me because I really do love Hackernews as a source of interesting and rational discussion, and keeping ourselves to that standard would be super amazing, especially with complex topics like this one. Homelessness and crime in SF are not single cause topics, (it's not just bad governance that causes them) and the tech exodus does not mean the city is dying.

jollybean 5y ago
Well when police end up killing someone, it's usually anecdotal now isn't it? If the anecdote is representative of some kind of trend, then it's worth examining because the 'visceral reality' of these crimes are better understood. Having 7K in camera gear robbed in broad daylight by rando's in a Honda gives us a hint of understanding of what's happening. Aside from the 'Justice System changes' and COVID, we may very well be entering a kind of new phase in social culture. The thought of such a thing happening many decades ago, before massive increase in crime in the 1960's would have shocked people. They had different kinds of 'bad things' then. This kind of brazen crime should be very, very rare in regular, civilized places.
tayo42 5y ago
Yeah its tiring to see the negativity. Ill share my thought that's likely to attract some negative attention... I think it's interesting this shows up a lot on tech discussion site. I see it here, I see similar sentiments on reddit too. Some of it I'm willing to bet is based in insecurity. Sf and the bay area is where a lot of the best work, hardest to get jobs are, prestigious companies exist and compensation is highest. There's people who are to scared to take the risk and move, or scared to see that they can't cut it and aren't as good or smart as they think they are. So they do things like convince them selves they don't want to be in SF, they repeat the ideas there's to much crime, its to liberal, the col is to high. Then shit post on the internet about it. We end up with these discussions not based in reality.

kyleblarson 5y ago

SF voters made their bed and now they get to sleep in it.

marsven_422 5y ago

Voteing Democrat has consequences.

xrd 5y ago

Is it not an obvious question to ask whether this is really just about "progressive politics" and not actually about "pandemic and lack of social safety net + police unions responding to protests threatening their jobs + insane cost of living?"

chrischen 5y ago

FYI this type of stuff was happening in SF well before Chesa Boudin. An SF local news crew was robbed (and shot) while reporting in Oakland (https://deadline.com/2019/02/san-francisco-news-crew-robbed-security-guard-shot-suspects-in-custody-1202564781/ https://deadline.com/2019/02/san-francisco-news-crew-robbed-...). More recently an SF news crew was robbed while reporting on car breakins, granted this was during Boudin's tenure. Maybe Chesa Boudin's policies aren't helping, but whatever we had before wasn't working either, and with the pandemic happening at the same time I think it's unfair to solely put the blame on him due to confounding variables. I lived in SF for almost 10 years and it seemed like property crime crime was gradually ticking up well before Chesa Boudin. The easy culprit to blame is honestly just massive and growing income inequality. If you really want a solution to the problem, close off SF from the rest of the poor United States, or lower the income inequality.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> FYI this type of stuff was happening in SF well before Chesa Boudin. An SF local news crew was robbed (and shot) while reporting in Oakland That’s...not an example on anything happening in SF. It’s an example of things happening outside of SF to people working out of SF.
- chrischen 5y ago
  It's pretty close, and many of the criminals commute (for free) from Oakland. But my point still stands, crime (property crime at least) was going up over the last decade (https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/us/ca/san-francisco/property-crime-rate-statistics https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/us/ca/san-francisco/prope... - click Property Crime tab).

alexalx 5y ago

Carry a gun.

senbarryobama 5y ago

Does anyone have a counter to the SF pile-on? This is heartbreaking to hear as someone who wants to work in tech in the Bay Area (and is resigned to live in the city as a single)

stephencoyner 5y ago

I’ve lived next to golden gate park and the presidio for close to 5 years and they have never been anything but clean, beautiful and well maintained. I have never seen any crime in my neighborhood first hand. I often walk at night to enjoy some fresh air and have never felt unsafe. The city really changes greatly depending on where you are. So when I see the comments that blanket everything together as a giant failure it seems a bit unfair. This is in contrast to other cities like Seattle where many parks are a mess and the streets haven’t been paved since 1925. SF has many large problems, but it also still has immense natural beauty and glorious areas. All is not lost

valuearb 5y ago

Forget it Jefferson, it’s Chinatown, er, San Francisco.

valuearb 5y ago
It amuses AND saddens me that a downvoter didn’t get the reference to “Chinatown”, an all time great film

pertymcpert 5y ago

Ton of cities? Please, elaborate. Across the world I’ve never felt as dirty and disturbed as I have in SF. No other cities with homeless have ever felt like this.

raspasov 5y ago

There are problems in SF, but they are not new. Not at all. Everyone who thinks that SF has somehow magically turned into sh*thole in the last N months: no it hasn't. I've lived in SF since mid-2011 continuously. It's been about the same, give or take. P.S. It is unfortunate his gear got stollen. Hope the criminals get some justice.

29athrowaway 5y ago

There is this documentary called "Seattle is dying" by KOMO news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw The situation in this documentary is similar to SF.

gabereiser 5y ago

Crime across the US is up. In Denver, car thefts and break ins were common to the point where police didn’t even show up. I was involved in a head on collision and the cops said it would be 4 hours before a unit would arrive. After waiting 3 I called and was told “just get the other drivers information” (like I hadn’t already) and leave. I couldn’t leave, obviously. I quickly moved away from the city to another state. I’m still out $23,000 for my vehicle because insurance wouldn’t pay without a police report. Crime is up all over America.

ultimoo 5y ago

Strange to see this happen at Crissy Field, which is decidedly in the "nicer part" of the city. Car break ins are common at the Palace of Fine Arts (about a mile away from where this incident happened), but most people would consider Crissy Field as a relatively safe place in the city where it's common to let your guard down (unlike at say Union Square).

robsf 5y ago

pretty messed up that the cops won't do anything even with a picture of the license plate on the getaway car. thieves know this which is why they continue to rob so brazenly. another consequence of growing wealth inequality. when you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose. relatedly, i moved out of sf last year after about 5 years there. i really love the geography and other aspects, but couldn't live comfortably anywhere in the bay area while saving any money even with a $200k/year tech job. who is SF for?

ayngg 5y ago

As a casual outside observer, it feels like a lot of people are throwing the blame in one direction or another, but while crime may be bad in SF, the level of crime in general is bad in most metro areas in the United States when compared to other developed nations. So there are probably bigger, more fundamental issues at play. SF itself is interesting in that they are so wealthy, and so much power is centralized there, yet it feels like their policy is either ineffective or makes things worse. Like how can a city so rich have things like a feces problem so bad that people make poop maps to track it, and rows of people abusing drugs in bart stations during the day? It isn't just crime, it seems like there is so much "societal debt," issues that needed to be addressed but were instead kicked down the road. Policy makers are either paralyzed/ gridlocked and cannot even attempt to fix things because they are already in over their head with all the accumulated problems that appear to be festering and getting worse, or they have been captured by powerful interest groups that prescribe selfish policies at the expense of the public. This leads to whatever actual policy happening being something that is akin to releasing a bunch of coyotes to solve the rabbit problem, only then to be left with a coyote problem, escalating up the chain of trying to solve smaller problems while simultaneously introducing larger ones. The crime, working and middle class insecurity, homelessness, issues with law enforcement, overwhelmed judiciary, captured/ gridlocked legislature, drug abuse, the crisis in mental health, race and demographic changes and whatever else. All of things are big issues, and the United States is dealing with them all at once, causing all of them to cascade into each other and exacerbate everything. It is probably so overwhelming that it is extremely difficult to address in a system that requires elect-ability in the short term. It is probably really hard to get elected on a platform of completing step 1 of a 50 step platform that would take years more than you have to implement. On top of it all, these things can hardly be discussed in when everything is so polarized, everyone is too busy preaching to their base and blaming the other, and they are all pretty much is in a continuous state of whiplash from the spin of news media working in overdrive, who are themselves also fighting for their own existence too. For most people, things probably feel like they have been falling apart for years, decades even, while the well off have hardly noticed a difference at all. I don't even know how you would begin to dissect this situation.

RickJWagner 5y ago

Seems almost surreal, coming from a rural state. I completely understand the California exodus. I strongly hope things turn around and California again becomes a 'golden state'.

underseacables 5y ago

I lived in the Noe Valley in 2006-2009 and really loved it. I went back in 2016 and things have changed so horribly. San Francisco is imploding and while the solutions are simple, I don’t get the impression the politicians have the courage to implement them.

silexia 5y ago

I visited Orange County and west Pasadena this month; both were free from homeless and it was wonderful. Then I spent time in LA and Long Beach and the homeless made the experience very unsafe and disgusting. Now that I have kids, I will not be returning to places that tolerate the drugs, crime, and poop on the street the homeless bring. The homeless are bums and should be treated as such. Too many benefits and too much sympathy are given to them, and this results in places becoming hellish to live for normal people.