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Facebook will ignore data collection ban issued in Germany over WhatApp rules
- Nextgrid 5y agoFacebook already ignores the GDPR with total impunity (https://ruben.verborgh.org/facebook/ https://ruben.verborgh.org/facebook/) so not surprised at all.
- underseacables 5y agoIs there any recourse that would force Facebook to comply?
- Nextgrid 5y agoI am not sure. If this was some random small company you could imagine that the regulators have bigger fish to fry, but in this case this is the #1 offender worldwide when it comes to privacy - if there are "fish to fry", this is the biggest fish, and the regulator's lack of serious action (such as the million-dollar fines everyone is fear-mongering about) suggests they're either incompetent or complicit. Maybe suing your local privacy regulator in local court is the next step? Open Rights Group is taking that approach in the UK: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/privacy-organisation-open-rights-group-taking-the-privacy-regulator-ico-to-court-in-a-landmark-case/ https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/privacy-organ...
- merb 5y agoblock them via dns. most users that are on facebook probably do not know how to go around that block.
- slibhb 5y agoAre you suggesting that the German government try to prevent its citizens from using Facebook "for their own good"?
- ChicagoDave 5y agoYou have to look at Facebook as a national threat. Ban it. It's the only way.
- GekkePrutser 5y agoThe same is being done with the pirate bay in many EU countries, it's not unprecedented. Though I agree it's unlikely here.
- hesk 5y agoFine them 4% of their annual revenue.
- hexo 5y ago80% of revenue would teach them better
- throwaway3699 5y agoSucking up 4% of revenue is catastrophic enough (that is probably double digits of profit). The goal of fines isn't to make be an extinction level event for a company.
- BugWatch 5y agoIn this case, plenty of us won't be shedding any tears.
- arcticbull 5y ago> The goal of fines isn't to make be an extinction level event for a company. Why not, out of curiosity? We don't make this distinction for low-income folks who get parking tickets. If you don't make them truly punitive why comply? It just gets factored into the cost of doing business.
- TulliusCicero 5y agoYou could just do both: start with relatively modest fines, then escalate if they don't comply.
- arcticbull 5y agoYup, that's more or less what I had in mind.
- NaturalPhallacy 5y agoExponentially?
- Stranger43 5y agoThe EU courts could go after any assets/companies associated with Facebook operating in the EU and basically dissolve them as bankrupt if they fail to pay their increasing fines. Another venue is to go directly after Facebooks European customers and make it illegal for any company to pay Facebook for ads targeting European customers. In the end this would force Facebook to abandon Europe and lead to local competitors taking over that market weakening Facebooks network effects in non-US markets. this is an escalation and delaying game and so far facebook is banking on some political saving grace that probably wont come as well privacy is considered an human rights by European courts and not something an simple short term political majority can simply erase because it's convenient for some US megacorp.
- thewarrior 5y agoI would expect that the US government would apply diplomatic pressure to prevent such outcomes as it would lead to copycat measures.
- Stranger43 5y agoThe question here is does the US have any leverage left as it's not like the American diplomatic service haven't tried pressure European regulators and courts to water down the enforcement of European privacy regulation since it was enacted. If the showdown happens in the highly independent German court system, i just don't see how American political pressure is going to stop the slow but steady path of escalating measures likely to be taken if Facebook refuses to comply with court rulings.
- tablespoon 5y agoI wonder if they could put an arrest warrant out for Mark Zuckerberg for something like contempt of court?
- grishka 5y agoI remember there were plans to require large social platforms, of which Facebook is the largest, to at least provide an equal access to as much API as their official apps have, and at most support interoperability (federation).
- dheera 5y agoGDPR only applies to the EU anyway. They can't enforce GDPR in the US. Facebook can always just close their offices in Germany but still serve their website worldwide, and unless Germany wants to implement a firewall to the likes of China, it will be accessible to German residents. The US needs to implement an equivalent privacy law.
- miohtama 5y agoThe EU can stop local advertisement revenue flow to Facebook.
- ars 5y ago> just close their offices in Germany They'd have to close everything in the EU. I can't imagine the rest of the EU would be fine with it. And that's probably more than Facebook is willing to do - it would mean no advertising in the EU.
- zwaps 5y agoNot quite true. If facebook were to remain usable by EU citizens, it falls under EI jurisdiction. This, too, is part of GDPR and the reason why some US websites simply block EU IP addresses. Of course, they could defy that order as well and hope that their assets are safe elsewhere in the world. Or, you know. their executives have seen enough of Rome and Paris.
- dheera 5y agoI disagree. You could say the same thing about China. Facebook violates China's content policies. As a result, China blocks Facebook. Likewise, the EU is welcome to set up a firewall and do the same. Facebook isn't obligated to do anything other than cease operation of local offices.
- andrepd 5y agoYes, they can enforce whatever they want if the punishment is locking that company out of the EU, the largest internal market in the world. No multinational company wants to lose access to such a huge market. The EU actually has a huge leverage to push things, it just chooses not to exercise that power most of the time.
- plank_time 5y agoHow desperate is Facebook for this data that they are willing to ignore governments? Is their business not viable with this information? If it is then maybe Andrew Yang is right and we should be paid for this data too
- avalys 5y agoI think you'd be pretty upset with what would happen to the world if FB was allowed to pay people to use it.
- livinginfear 5y ago> "In 2016, the commissioner demanded Facebook stop collecting user data from WhatsApp. In that case, Facebook worked with Germany to iron things out. It does not appear that the social media platform is willing to cooperate this time." This line to me sounds incredibly sinister. For a long time I've been fearmongering about the level of power held by these multinationals approaching those of small states. It sounds rather disconcerting when Facebook is engaging in diplomacy and brinksmanship with powerful nation states. Even worse, when they're winning. It's at least encouraging that the European Union is concerned about Facebook's growing power and political influence. The incumbent American institution seems to have all-but ignored this growing problem. Of course there were lots of crocodile tears about "Russian collusion" and "Fortifying the Election", and so on. However through all that, there doesn't seem to have been much questioning of the nature of Big Tech's power, only the direction of its application.
- that_guy_iain 5y agoGermany ist’s a small State. It‘s basically the most powerful nation in Europe. I can‘t see any benefit for Facebook from this. There is a line of thought that Germany decides lots of EU decisions, could we see Facebook banned from the EU? Unlikely, Facebook will probably back down like they did with Austraila, but if things keep escalating after a Germany ban I think an EU ban would be talked about.
- Cadwhisker 5y agoFacebook and governments are very experienced at spinning news in a way that makes them look good. The Australian government was looking for mandatory negotiations with media companies, forcing them to pay for content. They relaxed that "mandatory" clause a bit and added longer periods for notification and negotiation. In the past year, Facebook has signed revenue-sharing deals with most of the major news platforms in Australia (ongoing) and on Monday of this week, they announced they would be investing $15 million in regional news media. https://www.fool.com.au/2021/05/10/facebook-to-invest-15-million-into-regional-australian-news-media/ https://www.fool.com.au/2021/05/10/facebook-to-invest-15-mil... Google has also signed contracts with some of the major media companies.
- annadane 5y agoOkay, so Zuck really is a sociopath, then. Good to know.
- ZeroClickOk 5y agoThis is expected: They have unlimited financial power, and in the last year they tested supra-national power with success and applauses.
- smashah 5y agoThis guy. It's time for WhatsApp to be removed from under the control of this toxic company.
- MisterKent 5y agoFacebook would rather be booted out than remove data collection, because they (probably correctly) have determined that a service like theirs cannot exist without advertising unless a global ban is created. If they are banned in Europe, the new service will be pay to use in order to generate revenue. In which case, nobody outside Europe would use it. In which case, barely anyone inside Europe would use it. Facebook knows this, and likely Germany knows this. So, they're really deciding whether they want Facebook or any Facebook like site to exist in Germany. I would be very surprised if Facebook lost this battle. If you think I'm incorrect, just realize that the only way china was able to get their citizens off of Facebook was to block them entirely. And even then, nobody outside china cares to use their social media platforms.
- CGamesPlay 5y ago> the new service will be pay to use in order to generate revenue. In which case, nobody outside Europe would use it. In which case, barely anyone inside Europe would use it. WhatsApp previously was a paid app and had 500 million paying users.
- darkwizard42 5y agoTechnically... yes. But the $1/year was AFAIK not enough to cover costs.
- asdfasdfef 5y agoMaybe they should work on figuring out how to build an electric car first.
- anoncake 5y agoFacebook or the Hamburg Data Protection and Freedom of Information?
- axiosgunnar 5y agoI am PANICKING this standoff will be abused by the EU to implement union-wide China-style internet filters „for the good of the citizens“. And from then on it will be a slippery slope to add more and more websites to the banlist.
- varispeed 5y agoI think you missed the boat - the requirement for filters and any company with user generated content having a censorship office in the EU and 1 hour SLA to delete content on request has recently passed without voting. It will be now implemented within a year. Some light: https://decoded.legal/blog/2021/04/the-eus-terrorist-content-regulation-and-what-it-means-for-uk-hosting-providers https://decoded.legal/blog/2021/04/the-eus-terrorist-content...
- axiosgunnar 5y agoYes but that‘s just another regulation in law space. What I‘m worried about is filtering infrastructure in tech space.
- varispeed 5y agoIt looks like they changed it so that the content filters are optional, but the it's very worrying where this is going indeed.
- tapoxi 5y agoYou don't need a filter. The modern way to enforce this is having Apple and Google remove WhatsApp from their respective stores.
- mpweiher 5y agoI have to admit I've been waiting for this ever since GDPR came into force. Facebook can't back down. Unlike other companies, who might be able to adjust their business practices, however unwillingly, into compliance, for Facebook, violating their users' privacy is their business model. Everything. The whole enchilada. Facebook's business model is illegal. This will be an epic struggle...popcorn ready.
- KorematsuFred 5y agoGood for Facebook. It is also a high time American government stepped up its game to protect American company's interest from overzealous and corrupt governments around the world.
- avmich 5y agoIs it possible to add a sizable fine solely for ignoring the government ban - independent of what a court would say regarding the matter of the ban, just for the violation of a ban itself? Otherwise there is a plausible strategy to drag things in courts for long time meanwhile continuing the - possible - violations as stated by the government.
- Woodi 5y agoBan for FB would be a joy ! But users need to have alternative and none really exists. But let's start with theory: is there really need for global reach social net site ? You just need family and friends. But that escalates quick... Also just find and add in same portal is a basic feature. So how to split FB ?