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Amazon Sidewalk
- quotha 6y agoWhat a colossal shitstorm.
- konschubert 6y agoI think that's great. Unless you have a shitty internet connection with data caps it should not be an issue. On a more fundamental note, I think it's pretty ridiculous that every apartment in the building I live in runs its own wifi network, screaming at the top of its lungs to be heard in the noise.
- Mauricebranagh 6y agoPowerline is your friend
- ivanhoe 6y agoWell, having a bathroom in each apartment could also be seen as a total waste of space and water, just as wifi is, but there are good reasons why people prefer having their own reserved resources and privacy - in both cases.
- konschubert 6y agoYou can have private networks and multiple access points within the same wifi channel.
- _dibly 6y agoSure, but good luck explaining that to everyone in my apartment building.
- imtringued 6y agoYou do realize that wifi uses a shared medium and each network only lets one device send at once? If one device is transmitting then all other devices must cease transmitting or they interfere with the radio signals. Having more 5Ghz short range networks is a good thing. It's the same thing with 5G. More cells, less range.
- intricatedetail 6y agoShould Amazon be paying for use of customer bandwidth?
- alfiedotwtf 6y agoUm... you what mate?
- BrentOzar 6y ago"when you share your Bridge’s connection with Sidewalk, total monthly data used by Sidewalk, per account, is capped at 500MB" Given that it's US-only, where most internet plans have pretty high caps, it's hard for me to get upset about this. I would have expected my Echoes alone to use more than that during normal monthly operation, playing music, fetching news, etc.
- peteretep 6y agoI’d expect data caps to be some of the worst in the US. Poorer countries had their internet infrastructure put in much more recently. That said, I also suspect you can’t just look at mean (average) speed to get a feel for that.
- dudul 6y agoData caps have little to do with infrastructure as demonstrated this the past year.
- dan1234 6y agoMy main concern with sharing like this isn't the bandwidth usage, but what happens when someone abuses the connection (downloading/sharing child porn as an example). I don't want anything to do with it if there's even the slightest chance I'd end up on the hook for someone else's crimes.
- peteretep 6y agoMy understanding is that you aren’t sharing a general connection to the internet, you’re specifically letting Amazon devices tunnel some data back to Amazon’s parent servers. You’d also likely have a pretty good case against Amazon if using their product as directed caused your trouble with the po po
- dan1234 6y agoAh right, so this is more of service channel that Amazon devices can use to connect Amazon HQ? That's not so bad then, but the headline is pretty click-baity.
- dividedbyzero 6y ago> The maximum bandwidth of a Sidewalk Bridge to the Sidewalk server is 80Kbps, which is about 1/40th of the bandwidth used to stream a typical high definition video. Today, when you share your Bridge’s connection with Sidewalk, total monthly data used by Sidewalk, per account, is capped at 500MB, which is equivalent to streaming about 10 minutes of high definition video. Seems this is not about guest hotspots or the like, but a separate network for Amazon devices.
- chiph 6y agoOr if you're a TV maker with an agreement with Amazon to use this network, it's enough to send content-based media identification information - which report on what is shown on the screen (whether broadcast, cable, stream or game).
- daniellarusso 6y agoThat is cool. My upload is capped at 768kbps, and with overhead it seems to be around 600kbps. So, 13% of my upload bandwidth would be consumed. This is a bit disingenuous on their part, equivocating uploading with downloading. Does each Echo device consume 80kbps, or is that total? If I had 10 Echo devices, would my internet connection no longer function and become saturated?
- Terretta 6y agoI recently changed from 1 gbps fiber to mobile hotspot due to a remote work setup, and … blew through 30GB on the iOS 14.5 and MacOS patch day.* After that, the flagship Unlimited 5G Verizon hotspot is limited to 600 kbps up or down. (Granted, 600 kbps would have been amazing in 1997 so it’s a good reminder of the mess we web devs have made of bandwidth.) Presumably they’re figuring people with limited bandwidth don’t use Echo/Alexa? Because it doesn’t seem like they figure that from the materials. * For anyone running a formerly wired household off a physical hotspot device, I suggest enabling (a) Mac Mini or Macbook to cache and reshare Apple updates to the household, or Windows Update Delivery Optimization, (b) turning off Windows, MacOS/iOS and Xbox updates and running the initial update downloads through a T-Mobile Magenta Max plan on family phones (each phone gets 50GB or 150GB per phone for $10 more), then use the cache or local Network Transfer to propogate to other devices. This keeps the physical hotspot dedicated to normal traffic, not slammed by unexpected OS, app, or game updates. https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/what-is-content-caching-on-mac-mchl9388ba1b/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/what-is-content-cac... https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/set-up-content-caching-on-mac-mchl3b6c3720/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/set-up-content-cach... https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-update-delivery-optimization-and-privacy-bf86a244-8f26-a3c7-a137-a43bfbe688e8 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-update-d...
- wilde 6y agoTBH the title is a bit misleading. Amazon plans to use your internet for API calls related to its devices, similar to Apple’s Find My network. I’m more curious about the location sharing bit.
- lullibrulli3 6y agosometimes I would love to see an A/B test on HN: swap Amazon and Apple here, call it "Find my Homepod" and see the reactions.
- ceejayoz 6y agoSure. Same reasons “Jeffrey Dahmer invited me for dinner” hits differently than “Mum invited me for dinner”. The two companies have a different track record on privacy.
- KingOfCoders 6y agoAh there, another one falling for Apple marketing. FAAG are all companies that want to make the maximum of money from their current market positioning, assets and brand. There is no inherent ethics in any of these companies. The moment Apple doesn't grow on iPhones/apps and see selling customer payment data as a significat add to revenue, they will sell all your data as every other company. Tim is no more ethical than Mark or Larry or Jeff. The way companies act right now is the way that maximizes their current profit. Rolling out privacy measures on iOS hurts Amazon, Google, Facebook and helps Apples brand, that's the reason Apple does it. And if this changes - e.g. the app store gets decentralized or regulated or people understand they don't need to pay 30% to Apple for a web application - Apple will stop it in a second without any second thought and find new revenue streams, e.g. selling your data. Their historic behaviour is not relevant.
- ceejayoz 6y ago> There is no inherent ethics in any of these companies. Didn't say that. Said they had a much better track record. AirTags launched with clear consideration to privacy issues, like a stalker dropping one in your bag. They appear to have thought this out well. The recent anti-tracking changes to iOS that Facebook is squealing about are another point in their favor for me. Are they my friend? No. Are their interests currently better aligned with mine? It would seem so.
- diveanon 6y agoI would say this is a privacy concern, but they are already echo customers.
- selfhoster11 6y agoTwo privacy vulnerabilities are worse than one. If I buy an Echo, I may well be aware what I'm getting into and accept the risk of an always-on voice assistant, but do not want the additional risk of that assistant sharing my Internet connection.
- Havoc 6y agoI wouldn't mind opening up even higher b/w wifi. I've got way more than needed so seed linux distros all day long anyway ...however if someone does something illegal with it that'll still trace back to my IP and police will kick down my door, correct?
- vbezhenar 6y agoUse Tor to proxy those connections.
- ben_w 6y agoTo proxy someone else’s use of your own network, use which you (generic ‘you’) may not know is happening in the first place because not everyone reads Hacker News or the EULA?
- vbezhenar 6y agoParent wants to open his network to strangers. He’ll be liable to any traffic they’re sending. So it’s a good idea to anonymise this traffic with Tor.
- Nextgrid 6y ago> however if someone does something illegal with it that'll still trace back to my IP and police will kick down my door, correct? This is a big concern with all the major "public WIFI" systems like this one and others such as Comcast's Xfinity WiFi and it's pretty much never actually true. For actual Wi-Fi provided by an ISP, the public network will usually come out of a completely different IP (your modem will internally have 2 IPs, or tunnel the public network's traffic straight into the ISP's infrastructure and it will only talk to the public internet from there with a different IP). For this one, I'm not sure if this is even IP-based at all and allows access to the internet. Seems like all it allows is to talk to Amazon (using some proprietary protocol) and offers no access to the outside internet anyway.
- Havoc 6y ago
- rubatuga 6y agoPlease don’t support Amazon from creating another network-effect product that creates vendor lock-in, and privacy issues. Convenience should not be the end-all goal, as the ad blatantly states, but instead interoperability and open-protocols.
- prox 6y agoConvenience is way too alluring for the general public I am afraid. But I completely agree.
- yunohn 6y ago> Convenience is way too alluring for the general public Despite being technically-savvy, and ready to hack away at systems for max configuration; I too prefer convenience for a lot of things. That’s the magic of modern life, you can save time on so many “complicated” things. Disclaimer: I don’t use Amazon Echo specifically.
- prox 6y agoFor me at some point it became an insight that I don’t always want “faster” or even “simpler” , most things are simple enough already that I don’t need to trade privacy, security, speed or even a nice discount for that latest and greatest product that’s actually just a new sales channel disguised as a product or app.
- yunohn 6y agoI feel like you’re making a tangential observation, rather than a direct response to the concept of “convenience” being useful in modern life. Anyways, could you provide some concrete examples of products where you were able to obtain such privacy and security guarantees with minimal friction?
- christophilus 6y agoMy blender, cutlery, toilet, dishes, and toilet paper. I did have to disable the smart wipe option on the TP, but it was pretty simple.
- podgaj 6y agoHi, where Amazon, providing services no one asked for and stretching our Internet security even thinner!
- tudorw 6y agoHow about some kind of 'proof of sharing' crypto credit system? I like the idea of a shared mesh, I am not keen on this being proprietary.
- RyanHamilton 6y agoThere are a few companies trying it, I watched a podcast where one developer in New York had this one: https://www.helium.com/ https://www.helium.com/
- tudorw 6y agoThanks, surprised to see so many downvotes on an idea, I expect more of HN.
- dangerface 6y agoI love how insidious Amazon are with their products, get the hardware into their homes then just change what it does to what you want. What you didn't read the EULA in the last update?
- jelling 6y agoThe latest Firestick software update is a great example of this. The new UI/UX aggressively de-prioritizes apps from content producers in favor of a "feed" that lets them push their own content and intermediate content producers from their customers. They even go as far as to deliberately hide your saved items/watch next items three levels deep in a menu.
- tssva 6y agoThey are not alone in this. Google has switched their UI/UX in the same manner. I haven't used Apple TV in a few years but when I last did they were headed in the same direction. Roku is likely not far behind in doing the same.
- ascagnel_ 6y agoApple has made some moves in that direction, but they have a dedicated button on the remote that takes you directly to your queue (for streaming apps that support Apple's unified queue, which is all the major streamers with the notable exception of Netflix). That said, their UI for recommendations has gotten worse. You'd get some ML-driven suggestions pulled only from services you've marked as connected and don't need to pay extra to access, but they've pushed that set of recommendations further down the interface over time, offering up a combination of paid content, first-party content, and curated content in the mix as well, with no heed paid to what you already subscribe to.
- daniellarusso 6y agoEven worse, I bought a 4k Firestick about a month ago to replace an aging first-gen Firestick. I had other things come up and did not unbox it yet. After the first week, I have begun to receive emails from Amazon urging me to setup the Firestick, at least once per week. This is the opposite of motivating, Amazon.
- bijant 6y agoThis is a blatant attempt at using their market power to gain a dominant position in IoT connectivity by creating a parallel Network where Net Neutrality does not apply. If this succeeds, only Amazon approved devices will be allowed on this global Network connecting only to aws provided services thereby establishing a monopoly on non-cellular IoT connectivity. After Apples recent move in the same direction with their „find my“ mesh network of apple devices being used to introduce a whole new mode of operation to support their Air Tags the Question of Net Neutrality has to be extended from just ISPs to Dominant Platforms that have the ability to create derivative Mesh-Networks.
- contravariant 6y agoI can't help but feel that this is only a net neutrality issue because we've already given up on letting people freely choose what kind of mesh-networks (if any) their devices get to participate in.
- fastball 6y agoI'm not sure I see how the customer is hurt in this case (or in the case of Apple's AirTags)?
- ehnto 6y agoThe customer isn't the last say in what is good for a society or economy, if Amazon puts a moat around IoT that's thousands of companies, products, employees, and unknown innovation all either gone completely or sucked up into Amazon.
- fastball 6y agoHow does this put a moat around IoT? This is creating a network that didn't previously exist. How does that hurt innovation? If you don't want to be a part of this network you can just... continue what you were doing before. Now at least there is an option.
- 6y ago
- vdddv 6y agoreminds me of fon.com
- livinginfear 6y agoI would be curious to know what kind of consumer response Amazon anticipates from this. Are consumer privacy, security and freedom factors that were considered in Amazon's decision making process when developing this product? I know it's not in the spirit of discussion on Hacker News, however I feel I must just add the rhetorical remark: "Is everyone else concerned yet?"
- londons_explore 6y agoIt's a real shame that human selfishness means everyone has to have their own mini WiFi point rather than all sharing. I wish the 2.4Ghz band had some kind of "at least half the bandwidth of any network connection over 2.4Ghz must be available for use by any member of the public, for free". That would effectively be the licensing cost for your use of the WiFi band - you use up bandwidth in 2.4Ghz, but provide for free bandwidth to the internet for other people to use.
- intricatedetail 6y agoThe problem is that when you share your internet with a neighbour partaking in illegal activities, you may get yourself in trouble.
- nathancahill 6y agoNot true, see the link in my sibling comment.
- TuringNYC 6y ago>> Not true, see the link in my sibling comment. Only "not true" if there is some evidence it is not true. I looked at the sibling link and found this: >> Will opening my network make me liable for others' illegal actions? + >> This one is a bit more complicated, but the short answer is, "We don't think so." Click here to find out more. "dont think so" is not convincing. Also not convincing is the broken link on the "Click here to find out more." I dont think this should be treated lightly -- there is no reason to assume that openly sharing an internet connection is safe given the consequences of illegal use.
- nathancahill 6y agoThe broken page is inlined, scroll down to "Myths and Facts: Running Open Wireless and liability for what others do"
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- peteretep 6y agoMods: be good to get the title changed to something less wildly misleading
- 11235813213455 6y agoI'm using my neighbor's wifi (with his consent). It feels silly that every apartment in a building has its own wifi, I can receive at least 8 wifi networks from my laptop
- eertami 6y agoThere are very legitimate reasons for not sharing networks, eg: security, not having latency/throughput issues when others are using the network. And personally I would need a wired connection anyway, so having a wifi network built in to the network switch isn't really a big deal, since the fiber is to the apartment.
- bitlevel 6y agoI can already see how this plays out... Police/Authority: You used the internet to access XXX site You: No, it was the other guy using the wireless...
- teachingassist 6y agoThere are also very legit reasons for sharing networks - the cost of sharing a connection is much less than everyone having their own connection. Two community-owned wifi connections are more reliable than one individually-owned cabled connection. ISPs have lobbied for everyone to stop sharing their own connections by over-stating the risks (rather than mitigating them), enabling password protection by default, and allowing risk to the owner to be encoded in law. And yet, ISPs are now taking some part of each connection for themselves. That's a problem. We could instead share our connections in a community-owned way.
- 11235813213455 6y agoYes I know, my father is a doctor, and he's required to own his own and private internet access. But in general, vast majority of cases we don't have those requirements, nor need exceptional speed
- mercora 6y agoi feel the same and would like to see buildings get connected as a whole paid by part of the utility billing or similar. something akin to how central heating is paid for.
- adam0c 6y agoBecause shared networks have never been a security issue...
- squarefoot 6y agoSo, if I buy a so called Smart-TV (not because I like it but because traditional ones are getting harder to find) but don't set up it on my home network so it can't phone home, it could scan around anyway and find other open devices more than willing to participate in my personal data exfiltration? If the Amazon project succeeds, I would expect in a few months most home devices manufacturers, to partner to implement it so they have a way to circumvent users choices.
- choeger 6y agoThis. That move is just one step further in removing control. They now have sealed devices that can have who knows what functions but are confined to the network. Next step is to have a concealed upstream. After that they will somehow get a legal mandate to force such devices on you (like the EU did with cars). Maybe they will use smoke detectors or "emergency" services. In the end, this is exactly like in 1984.
- bregma 6y agoLess 1984 and more Fahrenheit 451. There is no central authority imposing this to exert control on the masses: consumers are imposing it on themselves willingly and industry is just giving them what they want. Juvenal redux.
- WarOnPrivacy 6y ago> consumers are imposing it on themselves willingly Without reasonable alternative and without consent is like a LEO version of 'willing'.
- dopidopHN 6y agoI never own a tv, I don’t plan to own one ever.
- WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
- jordz 6y ago"Amazon does not charge any fees to join Amazon Sidewalk" Not to the end customer anyway. To organizations and developers building on top of the APIs... Completely against this idea though its a shame its not... "Get paid for hosting a network using the devices you purchase from us"* Lastly, it is a cost albeit negligible to the end user who installs the device (power, bandwidth, etc). *I know it wouldn't amount to anything but its a interesting way to think about it.
- hnlmorg 6y agoHonestly, the end user should be subsidised for hosting this feature. The fact that Amazon are able to spin this as "we're giving this to you for free" shows how far the tech industry has gone in tricking it's consumers into thinking that they're getting something for nothing.
- SamuelAdams 6y agoSo when I stand up a botnet controlled by a CnC server its illegal but when Amazon does it its "for the investors". Ffs
- FartyMcFarter 6y ago> helps devices like Amazon Echo devices, Ring Security Cams, outdoor lights, motion sensors, and Tile trackers work better at home and beyond the front door. I hope they inform their customers that filming and recording public spots or other people's houses in Europe requires advertising the presence of CCTV and adhering to data protection laws. I have a feeling that in the coming years the number of neighbours suing each other for this kind of thing will become more prevalent.
- Spare_account 6y ago>I hope they inform their customers that filming and recording public spots or other people's houses in Europe requires advertising the presence of CCTV and adhering to data protection laws. I live in the EU and have a camera on the front of my garage, pointing at the street and partially covering my opposite neighbour's house. I'd like to understand more about which rules I need to adhere to, I was unaware of this. Can you point me towards some resources on the subject?
- FartyMcFarter 6y agoHere are a few links as a starting point: https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/domestic-cctv-systems-guidance-for-people-using-cctv/ https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/domestic-cctv-systems-g... https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=e5486933-1806-4c73-9805-ed82fac8f134 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=e5486933-1806... https://www.netatmo.com/en-gb/guides/security/burglary/regulation/personal-surveillance-camera-regulation https://www.netatmo.com/en-gb/guides/security/burglary/regul...
- Spare_account 6y agoThanks!
- dd_roger 6y agoIt's plain illegal in Switzerland regardless of CCTV signs. Even dashcams are in a gray area where it should technically be illegal but it has never been enforced before a court as far as I know (dashcam are extremely rare here anyway). I wonder how it works for Tesla cars that record their surrounding when parked, maybe they don't have that feature here. Surveillance of public areas is only permited with very good reasons (e.g protecting outdoor ATMs) and must be restricted at the minimum required to serve its purpose.
- hownottowrite 6y ago“Preserving customer privacy and security is foundational to how we’ve built Amazon Sidewalk.“ I love that this is the opening line in two back to back FAQ entries. I'm going to make Alexa read it to me for full effect.
- Zenst 6y agoProbably best as I'm sure many will have the word "backdoor" echoing throughout my head reading all that.
- mschuster91 6y agoGood god this title editorializing is atrocious. For those who don't read the articles and only go for the comments... Amazon plans to use Echo devices as some sort of local, extremely low-bandwidth (80 Kbps) gateway for IoT communication. Not some sort of "internet sharing" in a "this is a wifi hotspot" way.
- mrweasel 6y agoAre the ISPs actually okay with this? Ideally Amazon would check who your ISP is and then check if the ISP will allow this type of usage, before just enabling it. If properly protected I don't see the issue, but it really needs to be opt in. The main issue from my point of view is that companies like Amazon automatically assume that a customer is okay with this, without knowing anything about pricing, security requirement and stability of the customers internet connection.
- Tepix 6y agoHow is this different from having a wifi access point?
- fogihujy 6y agoI can imagine there's more than one ISP who'd have something to say about open wifi networks.
- signal11 6y agoBT, the UK’s largest ISP, has this feature (Wi-fi sharing on a separate network) built into the routers or “hubs” it supplies, and on by default. The benefit for people is that they can get Wi-fi in many places — free for BT customers, and a small fee for others. Note that anonymous access isn’t allowed. Look for “hub hotspots” here: https://www.btwifi.com/find/ https://www.btwifi.com/find/ For other ISPs who don’t offer something like this, I don’t think they can stop their customers, the main question around customers offering free Wi-fi to others would focus around liability, I think. Who’s responsible if people do naughty things using your Wi-fi? And will Amazon’s solution help identify a potential bad actor?
- 45ure 6y ago>The benefit for people is that they can get Wi-fi in many places — free for BT customers, and a small fee for others. I subscribed to a BT Openreach broadband product, a few years ago, in personal capacity. The service you are describing is called BT WiFi, after being rebranded. For residential customers, it is enabled by default i.e. an opt-out feature, as you have noted. Once you manage to find a way to disable it, you lose the 'benefits'. I found the feature to be extremely disconcerting, especially relating to a pattern of random parked vehicles and people loitering around residential premises at various times of the day, essentially to leech bandwidth off my connection. It would seem that the ISP supplied router (HH6) was designed to create a splintered guest/public WiFi over a VPN. Although the matter of anonymity and liability was of great concern. However, I did not pursue it any further, due to numerous red flags, relating to degradation in QoS and security; latency, contention, poor signal, connection logs with dubious entries etc. It felt prudent to cut loose, rather than justify any perceived benefits. To stay on the point, I am not sure if the Sidewalk branding will travel well long-term, might as well drop the facade and call it: Amazon Shodan. https://fon.com/bt-wifi-with-fon-rebranding/ https://fon.com/bt-wifi-with-fon-rebranding/
- itsasecretinc 6y agofree wifi right on
- maxehmookau 6y agoHell. No.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mellosouls 6y agoI've flagged this on two counts (I don't like flagging stuff): 1. The website linked is just an advert. 2. The title is completely editorialised, regardless. Not that I think it should be taken down, now there's discussion but it seems poor form as a submission especially on the title.
- christiansakai 6y agoDo you want another security disaster? Because this is how you get another security disaster.
- softwaredoug 6y agoXfinity routers seem to do this. I wonder how many of my less technical neighbors realize I can get on their internet?
- etskinner 6y agoA key difference seems to be that Xfinity/Comcast doesn't count that usage against your bandwidth cap and your monthly data cap. Whereas Apple's AirTags and Amazon Sidewalk use your gateway, your ISPs or mobile data providers will charge your for it and/or count it against your caps
- tmearnest 6y agoIf there’s a way to filter out the analytics traffic and connections routed through the Echo after the router but before the connection to the modem/ont, this would be a good opportunity to build a simple device which blackholes this traffic. I’m thinking of a device that you simply connect between your home router and the connection to the isp. We all here can probably figure out a technical solution that works for us, but is not easy for the average person. I’m imagining a turn key device for the average person who is concerned with their privacy and doesn’t want the whole world using their internet connection.
- mytailorisrich 6y agoHere in the UK I know that at least BT broadband modems set up a public Wifi, which is segregated from you own but uses you VDSL link for backhaul. It looks like this is the same thing.
- bitlevel 6y agoSadly not the same thing. This is using bandwidth from YOUR network. And besides, you can disable the BT 'sharing' capability. May not be so easy with an Echo in the house...
- mytailorisrich 6y ago> Sadly not the same thing. This is using bandwidth from YOUR network. Ah yes, this is from the Echo so the traffic will go over your own Wifi. BT also uses your bandwidth but it is the one over VDSL.
- chaz6 6y agoThis is just the beginning of more pervasive tracking. If my neighbours both have echos, it will be a lot more likely that any products I have can be tracked. As more and more products have cheap lower power tags, even something as cheap as a tin of beans can ultimately tracked.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- xyst 6y agoThis looks like a disaster, and looks like a hackers wet dream. Wouldn't be too hard to hack an Echo or another device and essentially create your own portable access point and piggyback off of another persons connection.
- HuangYuSan 6y agoyou'll have to pay Amazon though
- angry_octet 6y agoWith Apple it's called FindMy, Amazon Sidewalk should be christened FindHer: the cost effective solution for spyware integrators, where liability for misconduct is dispersed down to tiny fly by night stalker ware companies. And FindThem Gov will be a nice money spinner too.
- hasmanean 6y agoIf you shared your bandwidth with 8 neighbours, you’d have 8x the peak bandwidth. Instead of 100Mbps you’d have 100MBps.
- ashtonkem 6y agoTime for the regulators to step in on this one.
- xemdetia 6y agoDid anyone ask the lawyers about this one before they committed to this idea? I do not want a situation where individuals can have search warrants issued to Amazon who as a network provider can scan/canvas an entire neighborhood for a suspected crime. Encryption doesn't really cover the fact that it creates a universal backdoor to private networks that work with Amazon products. Just because they claim customer privacy does not insulate them from being served a legal order to produce records/provide access. This feels like a compute crime law nightmare.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- lwhi 6y agoI don't know about anyone else, but I'm starting to think maybe tech isn't going to save us after ..
- kristopolous 6y agoIt could, but not in the hands of money.
- lwhi 6y agoAgree! We need to regulate markets to prevent FAANG domination.
- orangegreen 6y agoWhy does Amazon only seem to be able to invent dystopian products? This, Ring, those package delivering drones, Amazon partnering with landlords to put Echos in rental apartments, etc. Why?
- newsbinator 6y agoWhat would be a utopian product that would fit into their ecosystem and benefit from their moat?
- tolbish 6y agoThey used to be such a wonderful bookstore.
- o_p 6y agoSome skiddie will have a lot of fun hacking the entire neighborhood :-)
- sunjester 6y ago"SIDEWALK is currently in invitation only preview."
- IceWreck 6y agoThere are huge privacy implications but anyone who would be willing to understand that already does not use Echo, Ring, etc.
- whiddershins 6y agoI see a lot of legitimate concerns being voiced here about this being a propriety network. It’s also a massive innovation, almost, wow the future is so cool kind of innovation. Why this reaction to focus on all the nightmare scenarios instead of a sense of appreciation, awe even, that a new thing has been invented and is being deployed? This is how we move technology forward. Sometimes it is open source, but often it is driven by a large company. I would love it if the internet in general was more mesh. I would love it if my internet provider going down when I’m out of town didn’t equal my security system being rendered useless. I think it’s possible to keep an eye on the dystopian nightmare scenarios without being knee jerk anti-progress.
- amelius 6y agoJust give me the technology without all the anti-consumer cruft that companies love to bundle it with.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 6y agoBack in the early 1990's, when consumers began setting up the first "home LANs" (wired), who would have imagined that one day most, maybe even all (yikes), of the computers on those networks would be computers that are remotely controlled by third parties. I must admit I never saw this coming.
- headmelted 6y agoBT has been doing something similar to their customers in the UK for many years, except with general purpose Wi-Fi (i.e. sharing your home broadband on a second network to third parties that walk by your house for a fee). Joe Public don’t care as long as the Netflix works, but he probably doesn’t know either.
- detritus 6y agoYeah, I thought they'd stopped doing this, but it appears they've simply removed the option to disable it from the admin screen, presumably keeping it on in the background. Christ, I loathe BT. - ed turns out you can turn it off, but have to log into your BT account, rather than direct from the router.
- headmelted 6y agoUnless it errors out on the website, and customer support give you the run around until you go away, because why else make you jump through so many hoops? They’re utterly horrid, but that’s monopolies for you. Hopefully we can get Virgin in my area someday.
- Avamander 6y agoI wonder how this dragnet could be disrupted.
- larrydag 6y agoThis leads to a question. How many other smart device things have a created a mesh network without the owner knowing? Is there a way to detect such networks? I'm actually giving Amazon a break here because at least they are announcing it.
- Kalium 6y agoYou can always scan your local radio spectrum. Wifi devices generally operate on known and documented frequencies.
- tailspin2019 6y agoI really, utterly and completely, fucking hate this.
- ascar 6y agoIs there some region lock/localisation happening here? I just see a product category "sidewalk bridges" which basically lists 4th gen Echos, but nothing else?
- bitlevel 6y agoSo - Amazon want to use 1/40th of my internet bandwidth. Along with that goes 1/40th of the electric that the router and broadband modem use. Then there were the costs for me setting up my own infrastructure with my own money. At this point, I would expect Amazon to PAY me to use my infrastructure - not get it for free. After all, they won't send parcels to me without me paying for them? This is a bad BAD idea. It will not garner any access over my network(s).
- isatty 6y agoI would like to give Amazon 0% of my bandwidth. This is a harmful “feature” that the masses will unknowingly eat up and make life harder for everyone else.
- bitlevel 6y agoMy whole life I've been 'Off Narrative'. Don't see any reason to change that now. lol
- notyourwork 6y agoYou can disable the feature. > Settings --> Account Settings --> Amazon Sidewalk --> disable.
- Terretta 6y agoOh man, your comment is so off narrative. This is their sidewalk, you just live there: Q: What is Amazon Sidewalk? A: Amazon Sidewalk is a shared network that helps devices work better. Operated by Amazon at no charge to customers… Didn’t you read it? They’re operating it, not you and your bespoke investment in quality networking. And they’re generously offering it back to you, so don’t look the gift horse in the mouth to see if there are Trojans hiding in there. … In the future, Sidewalk will support a range of experiences from using Sidewalk-enabled devices…“ See, no Trojans in this horse yet. --- // In all seriousness though… - I’m not alarmed by the content of the release itself, but curious about implications and plans. - I’m happy we do not see (yet) “eero” listed in the devices. - I’m curious though, as eero supports Thread, whether they’ll lean into an embrace/extend there, or aim to supplant. Presumably it’s not managed Thread rebranded, as AWS has sometimes done with open projects. “So, Thread has all of these benefits without the drawbacks. It’s basically a plug-and-play mesh network, separate from your home Wi-Fi. It has excellent range, response time, but with low power usage and really the more devices you add, the better.” https://www.threadgroup.org/ https://www.threadgroup.org/ Tom’s Guide says “similar to Zigbee, Z-Wave, and Thread”: https://www.tomsguide.com/reference/what-is-amazon-sidewalk https://www.tomsguide.com/reference/what-is-amazon-sidewalk - And I’m curious about the Echo/Alexa propensity to want to “discover” everything in your home and tell them about it — will this relay that discovery through every home within EM range in the block. They did already partner with Tile, suggesting one of several practical reasons Tile may not be choosing to embrace the Find My tech.
- jcims 6y agoJoke's on them, my closest neighbor is a quarter mile away.
- enjeyw 6y agoDoes this spell the end of any prosecution that relies on tying a router IP address to an identity? Seems like it would be trivial to claim that it was actually an unknown third party, connected via Amazon, that was using the network for "Illegal activity X".
- worldofmatthew 6y agoI am pretty sure this is not allowed in the TOS a homeowner signs with their ISP.....
- johnchristopher 6y agoI don't understand how it doesn't turn Amazon Echo owners into ISP against their will, nor how a company can decide to use a customer's resources without consent (data usage/quota/cap, etc., electronic fog, etc.).
- yalogin 6y agoI am sure they will build that sidewalk stack into every possible device they can. It’s going to be a terrible thing given how Amazon has no scruples about surveillance and tracking. It will happily build back doors into this to sell to law enforcement too.
- juliand 6y agoIs there anyway to opt out of this?
- encryptluks2 6y agoYes, but it is opt-in by default.
- JohnWhigham 6y agoYeah, don't buy a fucking Alexa.
- HumblyTossed 6y agoHow does this not violate Comcast (for example) TOS? Edit: Link to TOS: https://www.xfinity.com/Corporate/Customers/Policies/HighSpeedInternetAUP https://www.xfinity.com/Corporate/Customers/Policies/HighSpe...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- unsigner 6y agoBeautiful. An age-old techno-anarchist pipe dream, mesh networking, co-opted by the biggest of corporations. Note the language used. Users are "neighbors". The network becomes "stronger". You "support community extended coverage benefits". It's like something straight out of Zero HP Lovecraft's fiction.
- jk7tarYZAQNpTQa 6y agoI wonder how hard it would be to transform this Amazon network into an independent mesh network, out of Amazon's control.
- danuker 6y agoSeeing as the smart TVs update themselves into submission, one would have to be covert enough not to trigger suspicion before disabling all update mechanisms.
- einpoklum 6y agoThat page is so Orwellian... it says "Peace of mind" with an image of a video surveillance camera, ensuring that you never have peace of mind as you are always watched.
- jxf 6y agoIf you want to disable Sidewalk, here's a quick Tweet I wrote back in November: https://twitter.com/jxxf/status/1332684843331825665?s=19 https://twitter.com/jxxf/status/1332684843331825665?s=19
- zekrioca 6y agoKeeps returning "Something went wrong. Try reloading."
- gedaxiang 6y agoWeird, I don't even see the Sidewalk option in Account Settings EDIT: looks like my Echo is too old to be compatible. Lucky I guess!
- hairband 6y agoIf I read the disable FAQ correctly, then even if you disable it, the bridge would still work. So your device would still contribute to the network, you just won't be a part of it. Given that, I am not sure if its any use to disable sidewalk, since your network is still being shared. The disable FAQ: > If I disable Amazon Sidewalk, will my Sidewalk Bridges still work? Yes. All of your Sidewalk Bridges will continue to have their original functionality even if you decide to disable Amazon Sidewalk. However, disabling means missing out on Sidewalk’s connectivity and location related benefits. You also will no longer contribute your internet bandwidth to support community extended coverage benefits such as locating pets and valuables with Sidewalk-enabled devices.
- jxf 6y agoThis is worded confusingly. What this means is that you _won't_ contribute any bandwidth, but your (say) Echo is still otherwise an Echo.
- aunlead 6y agoThe FAQ says you can disable it - If I disable Amazon Sidewalk, will my Sidewalk Bridges still work? Yes. All of your Sidewalk Bridges will continue to have their original functionality even if you decide to disable Amazon Sidewalk. However, disabling means missing out on Sidewalk’s connectivity and location related benefits. You also will no longer contribute your internet bandwidth to support community extended coverage benefits such as locating pets and valuables with Sidewalk-enabled devices. Edit: Formatting
- occamschainsaw 6y agoI am worried that even if you disable it, it might act as a bridge between two Sidewalk networks. For example, if you and neigbors on both sides of your house have Alexa devices, and you disable Sidewalk on yours, it is still serving as a bridge between your neigbors' devices.
- anonymousab 6y agoYou can flip a setting to enable DNT in a browser too. The sidewalk setting may have more of an effect for now, but that is only a temporary hurdle.
- swiley 6y agoEvery day these companies make RMS look less and less crazy.
- datalus 6y agoI just read the corporate memphis article, and oh look... Amazon is also using the style right here. All I can do is sigh, and hope for a brighter future.
- Someone1234 6y agoIt is interesting how stark the reaction to this Vs. Apple's "Find My" network is. Apple's version adds every iPhone to part of their network. It uses battery AND expensive mobile data even when the owner has no eligible devices, and that isn't considered controversial. But Amazon wants to use data on non-battery/non-pay per transfer lines and this is considered controversial (and an "abuse of their market position"). I'm not really defending Amazon here, but rather pointing out the huge difference in response to exactly the same kind of "hijack your device for our benefit" network. Why is one seemingly ok and the other not?
- katbyte 6y agoOne is just for finding devices with an encrypted protocol. Only you and your own air tags communicate. The Amazon one is creating a network that “any and all devices can use to call home to their manufacturers without wifi” Pretty stark difference
- bredren 6y agoAmazon does not treat user data privacy as a core value. That means there is no floor to police those who use this network for data privacy. Beyond that, Apple mobile devices have the most efficient battery / processor compute on the market. Nothing to be said for mobile data use, though I would be interested to see analysis of how much new bandwidth usage results from participation. Also, I would expect Apple to be much more aggressive in curtailing unnecessary data usage than Amazon would be. That's just a gut check though.
- tootie 6y agoAmazon's user data policy is very similar to Apple. They have more of it because of their reach but they don't sell it.
- bredren 6y agoHaving a policy is not the same as a core value. You are right that Amazon has far more data, including purchasing history and intent (inclusive of grocery for some customers) Most of the concern shown in this thread is this retroactive ToS change for something that to Amazon Echo. It is reasonable to have greater concern about a ToS governing this data because it can be combined with other data Amazon collects in its other businesses and is inherently more sensitive. I do not recall Jeff Bezos going to conferences or sitting for interviews where he puts focus on customer privacy. Whereas practically every major interview Tim Cook gives he speaks to the importance of privacy. Cook was doing this long before the current dispute with Facebook entered public awareness. Company culture starts at the top. I am interested in any debate around how any other consumer products company including Amazon might have led Apple in any of the following areas: - Identifying privacy concerns - Creating simple interfaces for making choices about sensitive data - Offering a platform that consistently enforces the use of newly introduced privacy controls by 3rd party applications
- criddell 6y agoDidn't you see the part where it's been designed to protect your privacy? It's only there to make sure all the cameras and internet microphones around your neighborhood stay live. You know, to protect your privacy.
- giancarlostoro 6y agoNone of that actually refutes the parent commentators concerns though. That's what its designed for sure, but his concern is what if it is taken further down the road? It's a speculative question sure, but there is nothing wrong with asking it.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- smichel17 6y agoParent comment was tongue in cheek.
- giancarlostoro 6y agoWell I apparently have not drank enough coffee this morning.
- nicholassmith 6y agoDon't worry, when Amazon has fully rolled out Sidewalk it'll be able to prompt you through an Amazon Alexa somewhere nearby that you need another coffee, and would you like to have some delivered.
- angry_octet 6y agoNot only that, it could shift coffee futures and brand market share by manipulating coffee drinking sentiment. And adjust your insurance premium based on consumption, stress markers in your voice and activity pattern, etc.
- natvert 6y agoThis could present an opportunity! Similar to what used to be a traveling TV repairman. Tubes were before my time, but I imagine a person who used to replace tubes in the TV. Instead of fixing smart TVs, this "repairman" would go around with a hot air rework station and unsolder wifi chips from working smart TVs. If I had a TV I would unsolder the wifi chip. Maybe even easier -- just cut the antenna traces on the PCB.
- bmmayer1 6y agoThis title (HN) is misleading. Amazon Sidewalk is opt-in and can be configured in your Alexa App.
- encryptluks2 6y agoThey're enabling it by default, it is not opt-in it is opt-out.
- bawana 6y agoThey are using MY echo, MY bandwidth, MY data. Why should I give it to them for free? I am going offline with a raspberry pi picovoice. I get all the functionality of voice control without the sewage that comes with today's internet.
- pupdogg 6y agoIf anyone is interested, I wouldn't mind collaborating to create a privacy oriented SmartTV or PC for devs or simply an industrial grade dumb TV. I have experience designing and building 70" industrial displays that utilize Samsung LCD panels. These "industrial" panels are normally twice the price of consumer grade ones but are designed to operate 24/7 with a MTBF of 100k hours (approx. 11 years) and are usually twice the brightness of normal ones (a very noticeable difference). I also have direct relations with Samsung for sourcing. Displays I've designed and built: https://bit.ly/3vV9jVm https://bit.ly/3vV9jVm
- 1970-01-01 6y agoAn extremely interesting prospect you've got here. What's stopping you from doing it right now?
- danuker 6y agoI would guess the massive investments needed for a hardware startup.
- pupdogg 6y agoNothing. I just realize that as I age, there's only so much a single person can do ;)
- 1970-01-01 6y agoI would definitely spend time and money contributing to a "Universal Dumb Display" (UDD?) Consider making this a kickstarter!
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ryansc0tt 6y agoBasically xfinitywifi for Amazon products
- ChrisArchitect 6y agoannounced clearly in 2019 https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/devices/introducing-amazon-sidewalk https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/devices/introducing-amazon-... I mean seemed clear what it was from the announcement back then
- ChrisArchitect 6y agoSo much discussion about this previously 6 months ago, same page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25196521 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25196521 TechCrunch article 8 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24565259 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24565259 TechCrunch article 2 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21073841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21073841 Amazon apologizing for Sidewalk 'confusion' 6 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25217233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25217233
- angry_octet 6y agoFor $50 Billion Dollars: "What is a global mesh surveillance network?"
- intrasight 6y agoI foresee a market for new home builds being tempest shielded
- irrational 6y agoJust to be clear, I can avoid this by not purchasing devices like the Echo or Ring, right?
- macjohnmcc 6y agoModern televisions have made me wish they were just dumb (as possible) monitors with no software interface. Just select the input, power, volume, brightness etc those things no Roku or other smarts.
- pupdogg 6y agoAmen. I also wish cars would just have dumb push-button or radial-knob controls vs a smart touchscreens. I'm a big fan of things that simply work and work for a long time.
- patrickk 6y agoThere’s so many products that fall into this category. Stuff designed several decades ago was often more reliable and easier to fix with simple tools (I’m thinking of Japanese cars in the 90s up to the early 2000s but you can apply it to many products). And now with ‘smart’ products, aka internet of shit, it’s gotten worse. I have a modded iPod classic for this reason, keep a NAS for ripped media, keep a dumb TV as long as it lives, use a bombproof Casio instead of a flaky smartwatch, etc. You don’t have to waste mental cycles by complicating your life with unreliable crap. I hope the GP succeeds with a Kickstarter or whatever, I’d definitely be in the market for such a TV.
- mattkevan 6y agoWorked in a tv repair shop back in the mid-90s. We would mostly fix aged soldering or replace dodgy capacitors, but even then newer TVs were getting less and less repairable. Just a transformer, circuit board and CRT. They shut down not long after I stopped working there as there was nothing left that they could fix.
- pupdogg 6y agoI miss being able to go into those shops! Nowadays, the closest thing that exists is phone repair shops and they generally don't even know what soldering is. I'm not knocking their business; but something inside me remains irritated knowing that we're more advanced yet we make less reliable/serviceable pieces of equipment.
- prtkgpt 6y agoNO.
- efwfhfasljd 6y agoAmazon published a whitepaper on Sidewalk's Privacy and Security: > https://m.media-amazon.com/images/G/01/sidewalk/final_privacy_security_whitepaper.pdf https://m.media-amazon.com/images/G/01/sidewalk/final_privac... In a nutshell: - endpoints (eg, smart bulb) doesn't know much about the gateway (which could belong to your neighbor) - the gateway doesn't know much about your endpoints. If you're concerned about privacy, also look at the application of the protocol: Amazon's Ring Security Cameras are meant to be used in a Facebook-Like hobbyist surveillance community: > https://shop.ring.com/pages/neighbors-public-safety-service https://shop.ring.com/pages/neighbors-public-safety-service
- AlexandrB 6y agoThere seems to be no greater hive of scum and villainy in technology than the IoT space. Between security issues, obsolescence by (lack of) firmware updates, and companies curtailing services that make any of this stuff work after a few years the whole thing seems like a shit show that showcases all the worst tendencies in modern tech. This announcement fits that mold nicely. A "service" where an IoT vendor piggybacks their own mesh-ish network on top of products you bought from them.
- dleslie 6y agoThe Panoptikon as a product. It's almost comical how blatant it is scifi villainy.
- epa 6y agoNo one so far has mentioned the helium network which is similar to this. Interesting amazon is moving into this market.
- hwbehrens 6y agoI do research on mesh networking, and the response to Sidewalk in the tech community has been pretty discouraging. People have rightly brought up Apple's Find My network as a similar application; companies are leveraging existing, ubiquitous devices to create additional network transport layers. See also, the proliferation and adoption of the Thread protocol. This doesn't mean we have to use these networks! But this is one of the first, easiest steps to make progress towards ubiquitous, decentralized connectivity. I understand that not everyone trusts Amazon with their private data, but do you trust Verizon or Comcast more? I don't! If there are multiple, competing standards that offer heterogeneous connectivity options, we'll be (relatively) much closer to resilient, censorship-resistant communication infrastructure than we are now. Like TCP/UDP, there are methods to guard the contents of a message on mesh networks as well. Finally, for those who think that it would be better to maintain centralized, monopolistic infrastructure and legislate privacy through legal means instead, I would argue that the arc of government is long, and bends toward control & surveillance. If a government is the only barrier between users and total control of information flow, then if that government wavers in their commitment, regaining the previous level of freedom is very difficult without the ability to communicate freely.
- crazygringo 6y agoThank you. I'm baffled by how positive the HN community was to AirTags, but not to this...? And aren't more networks a good thing? Shouldn't there be another competitor here? Also, I'm not sure where people are getting that Amazon is bad at privacy. Amazon isn't Facebook, nor is it even Google Analytics, nor has it been involved in any user/privacy data scandal I can think of. I mean, most of the criticism of Amazon seems to do with worry that electronics you buy might turn out to be counterfeit... but that has nothing to do with this. This seems like really cool tech, folks.
- atonse 6y agoThat's because there's deceptive language here. There's lots of details out there about the great lengths Apple has gone to preserve actual privacy with AirTags. AirTags have been designed so nobody, not the random device holder, or even Apple, can ever see any information. But look at Amazon's language on "privacy" - they basically say "everything is encrypted" which is essentially meaningless for privacy. It's meaningful for _security_. And that is the difference. There's no evidence that Amazon has actually tried to create a system that respects the user's privacy (including from Amazon). Secure, yes. Private? no.
- zemo 6y agothere was another thread where people were like "gamedevs make less money because they're exploited nincompoops and don't know how to negotiate" or other i-am-an-alien-studying-humanity-at-a-distance comments like "the game industry somehow is able to pay people less, because people for some reason want to do that work" and talking about how much more FAANG jobs pay as if it is news to people that don't work for those companies but the reality is the big tech companies are evil and they have to pay a lot because 95% of people know that they are evil and refuse to work for them for anything less than a small fortune, and if you can't see that the FAANG companies are all bad for society, you are in the 5%, so congratulations on being so detached from humanity that you are unaware of the damage your labor is doing to society.
- teolandon 6y agoWhat is up with Amazon being a multi-billion dollar company, yet serving extremely low-quality JPEGs for this marketing page? It looks so cheap.
- orthecreedence 6y ago"Amazon Surveillance"
- jonny_eh 6y agoWhy is everyone talking about televisions here? I don't see any mention in the announcement about smart TVs.
- websites420 6y agoBecause TVs are smart home Trojan horses. The other IoT stuff you can avoid because they’re totally new categories of thing (smart locks, smart speakers) but TVs are bog standard devices that get creepier every generation. Sidewalk makes opting out of the creep factor harder.
- jonny_eh 6y agoIs Sidewalk included with TVs?
- websites420 6y agoNot yet. But there isn’t any reason why it won’t soon. Alexa is on TVs, after all.
- debrice 6y agoTwo things bothers me here. It is described as free of charge while you should be paid to provide internet connection and power to consolidate Amazon network’s infrastructure. Second is the risk of the protection being too weak to prevent people other to access your camera, voice recording, wifi… this shortcut seem to mainly benefit Amazon while most of the costs and risks are put on its clients.
- balozi 6y agoBanks should be being more like Amazon. Send everyone a free $5 gift card. Then convert all those cards automatically into credit cards after three months. Amazon should be more like banks. Gamify the experience and entice users into your program with rewards, points or "miles".
- 0800LUCAS 6y agoIs there such a thing as LineageOS for SmartTVs? Could that be a way to prevent sneaky services from pushing information you don't want out of your TV?
- tyingq 6y agoI think it's a neat idea, but I don't like the precedence of "Ring" devices sharing video with law enforcement in a way that doesn't require warrants, or deleting the video after some time period, etc. I guess I'll disable this on my network since I don't want to aid that process.
- dtrickett 6y ago"Customers with a Sidewalk Bridge (today, many Echo devices, Ring Floodlight Cams and Ring Spotlight Cams) can contribute a small portion of their internet bandwidth, which is pooled together to create a shared network that benefits all Sidewalk-enabled devices in a community." If only this logic applied elsewhere (Citizens) with a (paying job) can contribute a small portion of their (paycheck), which is pooled together to create a shared (infrastructure) that benefits all (citizens) in a community.
- Simulacra 6y agoThis reminded me too much of the time Comcast tried to turn customer routers into public wifi APs. Amazon creeps me out enough, Sidewalk is something I quickly disabled.
- mrb 6y agoTech side: according to https://aws.amazon.com/iot-core/features/ https://aws.amazon.com/iot-core/features/ the physical network seems to be implemented using LoRa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoRa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoRa which has a range of up to 10 km in perfect situations (so more likely 1 km in urban environments) Edit: actually maybe Amazon uses a proprietary version of LoRa: https://enterpriseiotinsights.com/20201208/channels/news/lora-alliance-semtech-in-talks-with-amazon-to-switch-sidewalk-over-to-lorawan https://enterpriseiotinsights.com/20201208/channels/news/lor...
- dudus 6y agoInteresting to see Tile on the list of devices. Tile is in a rough spot since Apple launched their product that is exactly the same but with a better network, better integration and better fine accuracy. Give me a sliver of hope for their future. Tile is doomed if this initiative fails.
- goatcode 6y agoWouldn't this go against some ISPs TOS about reselling or sharing a connection?
- eecc 6y agowhose tech are they repackaging this time?
- kodah 6y agoI'm imagining someone building a utility looking box that can be stuck in apartment complex gardens or in the gardens of office complexes that has some dummy wifi that captures this exfiltration for its own means. If they want to be really sneaky they could put distance between themselves and the fake utility box using a LoRa bridge.
- splithalf 6y ago“ Don’t think you need Amazon Sidewalk? No worries. You can update this anytime from the Ring or Alexa mobile apps.” Rotflmao
- jhatax 6y agoIs Tile now a Prime acquisition target of Amazon?
- alisonkisk 6y agoThis is a corporate take over of the fabric of society. It's sickening that our social fabric is mediated by a giant monopoly. We need a municipal alternative.