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Simple bank shutdown goes awry, leaving customers without account access

287 points by Kye 6y ago

henriquez 6y ago
That doesn’t sound very simple.
codetheweb 6y ago
Can confirm, it’s been a mess so far. Quite unfortunate considering that Simple was genuinely a good banking app/service.
nerdponx 6y ago
I'm always curious what actually happened on the backend here. Has anyone here had a similar situation happen on their watch? Postmortem analysis would be interesting.
sayhar 6y ago
Maybe I care too much about market power and consolidation, but this part struck me: > [Simple] was purchased by BBVA in 2014. > BBVA said in January that it would be shutting down Simple later in 2021. The decision came from the company “reassessing its goals” as part of a planned sale to PNC Bank, which reached an agreement to acquire BBVA’s US operations in November 2020. The consolidation problem seems to be getting worse everywhere. [1]. Gotta imagine they're connected. [2] https://concentrationcrisis.openmarketsinstitute.org/ https://concentrationcrisis.openmarketsinstitute.org/
- vmception 6y ago
  This is just irony. Try not to read too hard into it.
- hardwaresofton 6y ago
  This has been happening everywhere over the last decade or so, and it's the result of super loose fiscal policy. When debt is cheap for megacorps, banks and high net worth individual, money creation goes into over-drive, but not for cash strapped companies or individuals. Central banks doubled down on this last year as well -- it's debatable whether it's what they had to do or not but at this point I'm convinced all central banks really do is start bubbles and encourage moral hazard. Monopolies and duopolies emerging left and right. "Tech" Startups these days look more and more like convenient customer/innovation acquisition vehicles for inevitable big fish and less like small businesses.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    True. So treat deposit accounts and instant payments as a utility and have the Fed hand them out to everyone. If you want to offer something more fancy as a fintech or commercial bank, go for it if you can make the economics work. Search keywords for more info on this topic: “FedAccounts”, “Banking for All” Disclosure: I am actively advocating for this policy with policymakers.
    - clairity 6y ago
      having a public option that’s not subsidized and competing fairly is a reasonable policy. the biggest potential issue i see is having the federal govt middle-manning all those otherwise private financial transactions, but that could be mitigated by having a private and a public bank account, with instant transfers to move money back and forth. and offering these through the usps seems like a winning move, through their well-established post offices all across the country (at least the ones not sold off at fire-sale prices in the past few administrations).
    - hardwaresofton 6y ago
      That sounds like something that should definitely happen -- my worry is regulatory capture. I have very little confidence in the ability of politicians and related agencies to predict and defend against the machinations of private industry who would try to eke out a corner of the government-mandated gravy train for themselves for all time. Would FedAccounts be essentially FedWire extended for regular people? It seems like governments don't really share information otherwise we could just lift the tech from Sweden (Swish). It would be an absolute sea change, but I want I want to starve is the finance beast as a whole -- the hedge funds that front-run and sometimes directly exploit pension funds, etc. I personally think that one of the biggest things someone could do to unwind the current financial system's largess is just ply a bunch of money/expertise/tech at improving credit unions. I maintain an account at a credit union and I absolutely love it, the people that worked there actually seemed happy, plugged in to the local economy and society. It is bonkers to me that anyone still banks at the large institutions (the ones famous for overdraft "protection") with local credit unions being as good as they are (and often very competitive on rates). If the large institutions don't get all the deposit flow, then they can't offer the huge leverage to the firms, HNW individuals, etc -- credit unions aren't going to be out there offering 15x+ leverage to Archegos Capital. Since what I've written is essentially a wishlist/vapor-policy, let's reinstate Glass-Steagall while we're at it.
- throwaway481048 6y ago
  Sadly, the act of many “traditional” companies acquiring relevant and/or competing businesses seems to simply lessen competition. So much for utilizing that acquisition’s unique edge on the market in terms of product, team, etc... While certainly a privilege, I empathize with founders who reach their “exit” dream, yet remain in a moral conundrum over whether what they just did actually benefits anyone but themselves.
- brutal_chaos_ 6y ago
  Antitrust is not a thing in America anymore. (Ok, my opinion, but really? Has there been any major antitrust suits since the Microsoft one? Please do say so if there was, I'd be interested in reading the case(s)).
  - astura 6y ago
    DoJ blocked AT&T from purchasing TMobile. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_purchase_of_T-Mobile_USA_by_AT%26T https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_purchase_of_T-Mobi... However, TMobile went on to purchase Sprint, so...
    - casefields 6y ago
      Which is a slightly better outcome. Had it gone through Verizon would've bought Sprint leaving us with a real duopoly.
- linsomniac 6y ago
  IIRC, the 2014 transition to BBVA (from Compass) also didn't go entirely smoothly. I had to contact support in that, and ISTR they said they were really slammed because of issues with the transition. My problem ended up being that I was withdrawing money from an ATM saying it was a "Savings Account" rather then "Checking", which used to work but stopped in the transition. Took a few weeks to figure out that was the problem though, because they were having other issues as well.
  - floatingatoll 6y ago
    I believe that Simple launched on Bancorp and then transitioned to BBVA Compass after their acquisition by BBVA. (BBVA bought Compass in 2007, Simple in 2014, and folded the Compass brand in 2019.)
    - linsomniac 6y ago
      Thank you, yes, Bancorp was totally what I was thinking of.
- tptacek 6y ago
  Did BBVA "consolidate" Simple, or provide a soft landing for them? If Simple wasn't long-term viable anyways, it's hard to see consolidation as the problem here.
  - tadfisher 6y ago
    We could have been viable. We were also the first movers, and had a uniquely bad scenario that required an immediate sale. Younger competitors are in the news for their $1b+ valuations (Chime).
    - relyks 6y ago
      Simple was way better than Chime, Varo, or any of the other newer "millennial" banks. It's a shame it didn't work out :(
    - sayhar 6y ago
      What was the scenario?
      - tadfisher 6y ago
        We had courted an investor and our runway ran right up until the expected cash from said investor. At the last second, the investor pulled out of the deal. The cofounders and key team members mortgaged their homes to make payroll while we searched for a buyer to keep the company going. That buyer ended up being BBVA, and the rest is history.
        tptacek 6y ago
        Right, so: BBVA didn't so much target Simple for "consolidation" so much as rescue the employees of Simple.
- freetanga 6y ago
  Banking is expensive- not only on operational topics, but also on Risk Coverage. Too much capital required, little returns on capital tied down. So it’s becoming increasingly difficult for smaller CUs to grow - they are doom to stagnate or merge. Concentration is somewhat inevitable, sadly. BTW Simple was not a real bank per se, most of the back office and core IT services (which amount to 80pc of non-branches cost) was provided by BBVA Compass (meaning BBVA had already consolidated IT and Ops in the US 5 y ago, to reduce capital contraints.
- URSpider94 6y ago
  This country has sooo many banks. So many. I don’t see consolidation as a big problem in the banking industry.
  - criddell 6y ago
    If they are too big to fail, then they are too big.
    - URSpider94 6y ago
      None of them are too big to fail. We have proven that. All banks should be regulated properly so that they can withstand risks from market excursions. In addition, all bank deposits are insured.
maxov 6y ago
This is pretty unfortunate. I loved using Simple for three or so years; it was my first independent bank account. It was a great app and beautiful design with innovative banking features, like budgeting and super easy high-interest savings accounts. As soon as I heard about the shutdown I closed my accounts and moved away from Simple, and it seems like it was the right decision. For anyone looking for an alternative, I'm using Wealthfront Cash now and I highly recommend it. They used to have super great interest rates but are now at about 0.10% APY, which is worse than others (I think you can get up to 0.50% APY right now at other places, with caveats). Although I keep minimal cash so it's not a huge difference. They do track the Fed interest rates pretty well, so I think many of the alternatives are just behind and will eventually have to lower their interest rates too. They have some nice features that Simple used to, like different categories and automatic savings/transfer to investment. The one sticking point is that they don't support cash deposits (perhaps it's possible through their partner Green Dot?), so I use a big bank checking account for that and nothing else.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- toast0 6y ago
  > As soon as I heard about the shutdown I closed my accounts and moved away from Simple, and it seems like it was the right decision. Indeed, getting out before things fully wind down is going to go smoother for so many things; a good habit to get into. > I think you can get up to 0.50% APY right now at other places, with caveats. My primary credit union, Star One, has 0.5% on savings for the past year? or so, field of membership includes Santa Clara County, Alameda County, Merced County, Monterey County, San Benito County, San Joaquin County, San Mateo County, Santa Cruz County, and Stanislaus County; ask around for a referral code because there's a decent referral bonus; if you jump through hoops, you can get 0.5% on checking too. Penfed has 0.45% and no geo restrictions if you join a club (but I haven't done it). Capital One has 0.4%, but is Capital One. If you're getting 0.1% you're doing it wrong.
  - kqr2 6y ago
    Just curious what is wrong with Capital One?
laptop-man 6y ago
yeah, can transfer my account due to technical issues.. ffs
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  I closed my account over a month ago when BBVA revealed the new policy terms. Interest rates were already dropping and were going to get worse. Fees that hadn’t been present were getting added on. Losing the budgeting features meant there was no point in being with BBVA when nearly every other bank has either better fees, interest rates, or both.
  - laptop-man 6y ago
    I'm planning on closing mine. only reason I kept mine was taxs were just filed and I was just in the start of a job change. there's no way I'd stay with their fee structure
    - Jtsummers 6y ago
      It was my second account. I had one for the household but liked using Simple. They wouldn’t let me open a joint account with my wife (green card holder) so it couldn’t be my primary account. I only had my “allowance” money in there by the time they closed. I’d convinced a lot of friends who were so-so with finances to try it and the budgeting feature helped them a ton. Squandered opportunity by BBVA.
Austin_Conlon 6y ago
Anyone know what went wrong at Simple (if anything) that led to them selling to BBVA?
- edoceo 6y ago
  Maybe nothing? Build a company, get clients (ie: take from competition), get noticed, get bought. Circle of life. Here's the post about the buy https://www.bbva.com/en/bbva-acquires-simple-to-accelerate-digital-banking-expansion/ https://www.bbva.com/en/bbva-acquires-simple-to-accelerate-d...
- nieve 6y ago
  BBVA was also one of the initial venture funders for Simple.
- banana-stand 6y ago
  One of Simple's co-founders posted about this on Reddit recently: https://www.reddit.com/r/SimpleBanking/comments/lxxkdy/simple_cofounders_on_clubhouse_tonight/gpr41w2 https://www.reddit.com/r/SimpleBanking/comments/lxxkdy/simpl... TL;DR It was a desperate move to keep the company going after a large financial backer bailed.
PascLeRasc 6y ago
The shutdown has been such a drain on my mental health. I’ve lost sleep most nights for the past 4 months trying all the replacements and I’ve lost money from none of them being helpful. Buying a cup of coffee is now anxiety inducing.
- lykr0n 6y ago
  There are a fair number of "app first" banks like simple was out there. But the problem is that you might not be able to keep using them in a few years... Varo, MoneyLion, Empower, Chime, and others that can be found by browsing around on the app store are good. MX powered Credit Unions (like BECU) also are really good. Marcus Inights is also a good app to use, but it's not super advanced.
- hammeiam 6y ago
  While it's not an integrated savings/budget app like Simple, I think YNAB has a similar spirit as Simple + a great community. It's a pure budgeting app, but you'll know exactly what every dollar is doing.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - noahtallen 6y ago
    As someone who switched from Simple to a “traditional” bank + YNAB, it is definitely a lot more in depth and less simple. I think it’s a good option for keeping track of everything and coming up with better plans though. One major downside of simple was not having credit card purchases inline. But Simple’s goals and expenses I think were easier to use even if less advanced. There is definitely more of a learning curve to YNAB.
- michaelmarion 6y ago
  I’ve been using Monarch lately and I love it. https://www.monarchmoney.com/ https://www.monarchmoney.com/
- dstaley 6y ago
aaronmgdr 6y ago
I had simple since the opened and loved them. when I heard they were shutting down I withdrew almost all my funds in February. but left a $250 in there for a month incase there were any autopayments i had missed. When i tried to transfer the money out in March every transfer kept leaving the account and then coming back a few days later. Only managed to get the funds out by moving them into paypal.
MadVikingGod 6y ago
I'm really sad that Simple has gone away. It's way of managing money worked for me, and nothing I've found replaces it. now I'm also really glad that when I got BBVA's terms I said "Hell no!" And found a different bank.
- joshstrange 6y ago
  You might want to check out One Finance [0], that's what I switched to. While I use YNAB for managing my money it feels like this is the spiritual successor to Simple in a lot of ways. [0] https://www.onefinance.com/ https://www.onefinance.com/
  - codyogden 6y ago
    Be prepared to expect to send a photo of your drivers license and a selfie basically any time you want to interact with customer service.
    - joshstrange 6y ago
      Interesting, I just started with them recently and haven’t needed support yet but I’ll keep that in mind. I’ll miss Simple’s support, especially in the early days...
- jesse_cureton 6y ago
  I was in the same boat - check out DAS Budget. It's currently more or less a 1:1 clone of Simple's UX and is available as an open beta on both iOS and Android It uses Plaid for its banking backend, and so far is working quite well for me and my partner
sakopov 6y ago
Simple was pretty awesome. I've been a customer from day one and I started looking for a replacement as soon as they announced the shutdown. I eventually moved to Radius and it doesn't even come close to the level of experience of Simple. It's a shame to see them go down and in such a way. Has anyone who was a customer found a fitting replacement?
- Breefield 6y ago
  One finance is close (so far) except that if I spend more than my spend pocket has, the charge is rejected it doesn’t pull from all pockets.
tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
"We know not having online and mobile access to your account is unacceptable" is some refreshingly clear and direct apology language. I don't know if the typical corporate bullshit-speak resonates better with the average person, but this apology would make me a lot less angry with the company (if I were affected) than the typical vague statements companies seem to emit in such cases, even though the end result is the same.
- dstaley 6y ago
  FWIW, this was standard operating procedure when dealing with upset customers at Apple Retail. If I remember correctly, it was referred to as "Acknowledge, Align, Assure". This is the acknowledging bit, and the latter portion of the sentence contains the assure bit ("we will continue to do all we can").
  - smt88 6y ago
    Someone should tell that to Apple's tech support. Their motto seems to be "Deny, Blame, Upsell" -- until there is a class action, anyway.
    - breakingcups 6y ago
      My dad, upon bringing his crashing MacBook back into the Apple Store, was told by the Apple Store employee: "No no sir, Apples do not 'crash'." (Turned out to be a bulging battery pressing on the wrong parts, leading to random kernel panics.) So he moved back to Windows for all his music production work and has been satisfied with that move ever since.
- fireattack 6y ago
  I don't know. I do like their statement since it's direct and not vague as you said. However, I've seen multiple times on Internet that a company made an apology which looked fair to me as a bystander, while people who were affected screamed "sorry but not sorry". I think it makes a big difference emotionally depending on if you're involved or not.
rarename 6y ago
The girl on bbva website is thick
deleted 6y ago
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priteshp 6y ago
Potential to earn 20% APY on Anchor Protocol by Terra Labs. Obviously not FDIC insured but worth the risk compared to the standard 0.5% rates on savings accounts we have been accustomed to in the US.
neilv 6y ago
> Simple opened to customers in 2012 and was supposed to offer a digital-first approach to banking. In fewer words, it was supposed to be “a bank that doesn’t suck,” to quote one of its co-founders. The service had a website and app that broke down your spending and made it easy to categorize payments, send money, and set savings goals. It was purchased by BBVA in 2014. Assuming that the user experience of Simple was a key selling point... does anyone know whether the BBVA user experience is now comparable? (Once the internal account conversion problems are fixed.)
- Kye 6y ago
  Not even remotely. Simple was Simple in the way people mean when the say they want simple. Not bare, or sparse. Just very clear and easy to use. BBVA's interface isn't horrible, but it reeks of 2000s web banking.
  - CompMan411 6y ago
    I can confirm. Simple’s app was beautiful, elegant, fast, easy to use, didn’t flash unnecessary or ugly (Account numbers, innocuous warnings, Bad UI elements, Broken transitions, switching between the app and the web interface); things Chase, US bank, city, Bank of America are all guilty of. I loved being able to set aside money with the simple account. Now I have first hand experience with BBVA as well. I’ll give it to them their app is pretty good. It’s clean, fast, and the transitions are good. Logging in is fast and easy. But boy the app experience is not anything I would call elegant. It was clearly designed by very square people with lawyers and accountants as their inspiration.
  - finovator4321 6y ago
    I've found One Finance and Envel to have the most user friend interfaces, although nothing compares to Simple ;(
saynotobloat 6y ago
BBVA heavily offshores / contracts it’s IT. You get what you pay for.
cproctor 6y ago
Now that there are (finally) services like Plaid providing API access to financial accounts, it feels like there is an opportunity to separate the front-end (UI, budgeting and reporting tools) from the back-end (interest payments, wire transfers) of banking.
- mulcahey 6y ago
  PLEASE let this be the direction we go in. The traditional banks will never be good at UX because they can't attract the talent. Their apps are always a bloated mess of web views. I loved Simple because it lived up to it's name -- it was dead SIMPLE! For example, 99% percent of the time when I open the app I just wanted to view the list of my transactions. Many banks can't even do that right. Other than that I primarily just want to move money in and out as easily as possible. One example of a well executed front end / back end model is the Apple Card where Goldman Sachs manages the back end. The Apple Card doesn't have the best rates and rewards programs but to be honest I don't give two shits about any of that. I want it to "just work" like the iOS home screen. I want notifications not to be a buggy mess. I want fast and reliable access to support. If Apple does checking accounts (backed by Goldman or whoever) and checked the basic feature set I'd switch to them instantly. Everyone's finances are getting more complicated with more subscriptions and such. Despite this headwind I still want to spend as little time as possible poking around a UX from hell as possible.
  - wmf 6y ago
    Simple was also running on a legacy bank back end... until they got shut down that is. Nothing can really prevent startups from selling out. (Obviously we don't have to worry about Apple being bought by Goldman and shut down.) Capital One managed to buy Adaptive Path so it's possible to attract the talent in some cases.
- rainonmoon 6y ago
  An example that strikes me as a stepping stone towards this (although, I believe, a little less clear cut) is Up in Australia, a partnership between a software company and Bendigo Bank, e.g. https://up.com.au/blog/up-cycling-core-banking/ https://up.com.au/blog/up-cycling-core-banking/
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
NaturalPhallacy 6y ago
>Simple opened to customers in 2012 and was supposed to offer a digital-first approach to banking. In fewer words, it was supposed to be “a bank that doesn’t suck,” to quote one of its co-founders. The service had a website and app that broke down your spending and made it easy to categorize payments, send money, and set savings goals. It was purchased by BBVA in 2014. >BBVA said in January that it would be shutting down Simple later in 2021. The decision came from the company “reassessing its goals” as part of a planned sale to PNC Bank, which reached an agreement to acquire BBVA’s US operations in November 2020. The acquisition has not yet closed. Why is it even possible for a bank - or any company really - to buy up its competition? Let alone buy it up, and then just shut it down. It's like "we didn't like having to compete so we just used our orders of magnitude more wealth than the average person and just deleted them from existence".
- duxup 6y ago
  Well that's relative to competition right? In the US there are A LOT of banks / competition.
- jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
  It gets worse. There are plenty of examples of where a company in a dominant market position with ample cash to work with used bully lawsuits to bankrupt an emerging competitor, then bought them in receivership only to kill the company in total the next instant. For me personally the salient example is what Creative did to Aureal, because what happened is particularly clear cut. I'm not joking when I say the Aureal drivers and support website went offline the very day the bankruptcy acquisition committed. Likewise, there are some pretty infamous examples of the giants doing this crap to each other, like this one: https://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/044.html https://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/044.html
  - thedevelopnik 6y ago
    I used to work for Fanatics.com. Together with UnderArmor, they outbid Majestic for the MLB jersey contract. Majestic had had the contract since the 70s. Majestic immediately filed for bankruptcy. Which was good news for UnderArmor and Fanatics, because they didn’t have any ability to make baseball jerseys. So they bought Majestic for a dime on the dollar since it was bankrupt.
dmoy 6y ago
That's wild, reading that article. It wasn't mentioned there, but for point of comparison, look at FDIC turnover time. If a bank shuts down and goes into FDIC receivership, it re-opens the next day. In some complicated cases, they shutter on Friday and re-open on Monday while working over the weekend to get things in order. Yes, that's a completely separate ball game, and is less complicated by the fact that they prioritize re-opening the brick and mortar banks themselves not a purely online bank. But - it feels like it should be handled better in a software world, not worse. Oh well :\
- casefields 6y ago
  Because it's to allay fears. Our systems foundation is on trust and without it would be catastrophic. It's why if you look around prices everywhere are rising but the FED says only a small amount of inflation is predicted. It's a noble lie to avoid the panic and anger if the public knew serious inflation was coming. It's a self-fulfilling feedback loop once the public knows. Same type of lie from Fauci at the beginning about the mask. Fear instead of trust leads to bad things. He did apologize for the lie to 60 minutes saying it was necessary because healthcare professionals need them. Talk about a death panel of one.
- rossdavidh 6y ago
  Especially egregious given that, since it was voluntary on the bank's part, they could simply (haha) have transitioned different people at different times. Start with transitioning a single customer, make sure it goes well, then a few dozen, etc. Spend a little money on incentives for people to volunteer to go early, it wouldn't take that much money to get a few dozen volunteers. It's one thing if it goes poorly in a disaster-response kind of situation, where you could not practice beforehand. But this is a self-imposed transition, with at least some control over the timeline, so they should have been able to find these kinds of issues in beta testing.
- dmuth 6y ago
  > If a bank shuts down and goes into FDIC receivership, it re-opens the next day. Have I got a story for you. What you described normally happens.... Unless the bank fails so hard that no buyer for it is found, and then the FDIC insurance kicks in. I know, because it happened to me back in 2012. :-) My bank failed, and they were in such bad shape that nobody wanted to buy it! I got an email on a Saturday morning stating that my bank had failed. Here's a copy of said email: https://imgur.com/a/HR42BxZ https://imgur.com/a/HR42BxZ The following Thursday, the check from the FDIC for the contents of my bank account arrived in the mail.
tjbiddle 6y ago
Not that I'm by any means happen with the shut-down, but my transition to BBVA was super smooth. Went to Simple, it redirected to BBVA, followed the instructions to create an account, logged in, verified all my account balances were the same as before. Now, my only desire is to come up with another solution to replace Simple's "Goals" with something. I loved being able to daily set aside money. I'm thinking I'll just make a self-hosted app for personal use and link up with Plaid, and then it won't matter what bank I use.
- andrewxdiamond 6y ago
  Ally bank has very similar features to simple. Their buckets/goals are a bit more configurable too
qshaman 6y ago
The are (were) the only bank I know of in the US, that does not allow non US citizens to open an account. Even if you had a green card , a SSN , you weren’t able to open an account. I’m happy they are gone.
raymondh 6y ago
Per the article, BBVA is “reassessing its goals”. This is amusing given that the original goal was “to be a bank that doesn’t suck.”
- dan1234 6y ago
  No, Simple were supposed to be “a bank that doesn’t suck,”. BBVA are part of the old guard who probably saw Simple as a threat so scooped them up while they were still small & cheap.
cbhl 6y ago
I recall when Simple transitioned from Bancorp to BBVA as part of the BBVA acquisition, and it... did not go smoothly. Days of downtime, and double-spends on transactions that did go through. As someone living paycheck-to-paycheck at the time, I promptly moved my spending (and my paycheck) back to a traditional bank.
- tadfisher 6y ago
  You're probably remembering a different transition, which was the move from TxVia to Fiserv for debit processing. That was in the works before the acquisition and we were right up against a deadline, and it did not go well. The later Bancorp -> BBVA transition was very smooth, aside from BBVA's policies forcing us to close accounts (e.g. they didn't support resident non-citizens of any form).
ilaksh 6y ago
I was not able to do the account transition yesterday, but tonight it worked. First thing I did was opt out of "overdraft protection". It's was so nice with Simple because I never had to worry that they would start taking advantage if I ran out of money. They just declined the transaction. And apparently were able to operate that way for years. But I wonder if they were just not able to compete with the profits of other banks that enjoy the lucrative business of kicking customers when they are down with overdraft fees.
ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
I’m switching to Chime. The BBVA site and app feel like a big step backward. For example, I like this auto save thing where they round up your purchases to the nearest dólar and deposit the money to a high interest savings account.
domatic1 6y ago
Bitcoin solves this
- lolsal 6y ago
  with lots of tradeoffs, sure.
Breefield 6y ago
They have $700 of mine. I deposited a cashiers check before account closure. They accepted the check then closed my account. Now I’m being given the runaround as Simple said they’d look into it—didn’t resolve in time and now BBVA is taking over.
2ion 6y ago
Any banking core system migration that's in the news is a gigantic incident. A testament to the state of IT infrastructure at big banks, and the people they trust with directing the development of these systems. A shitshow.
williesleg 6y ago
Thank you h1b visa holders for your shit code You need to go back to India and fix your shit hole country.
redis_mlc 6y ago
US Zoomers: don't fall for these "faux" banks. If the bank is less than 100 years old and it's not national, it's a fake bank.
technerd2000 6y ago
Not a great ending! I’ve been giving Envel a go so far looking like a great alternative, they have an envelope system like simple to manage expenses, love the direction they are taking, they are releasing many new features like simple and really responsive support team..only negative is no interest on savings accounts which doesn’t bother me much anyway as automated savings helps me more, but I think they are looking at interest soon but more interested in where they are heading and being with a bank that gives a **t https://twitter.com/envel_ai/status/1390705174335918083?s=21 https://twitter.com/envel_ai/status/1390705174335918083?s=21
kylehotchkiss 6y ago
I was an early Simple customer but ended up leaving the service when I found out their policy on being a digital nomad (not having a residential US address) was very strict. As one of the first online banks (I know Ally was a little ahead of them), I found this policy strangely prohibitive and closed my account. I ended up going to Navy Federal because my grandpa served in the Coast Guard and my experience with them has been phenomenal. Really no issues at all, no fees, website and app work as well as I need them to. I liked keeping my car loan in-house there and will eventually open a mortgage with them. The few times I've needed to visit a branch have been painfree. And because they're a military bank, they aren't as rigidly opposed to international addresses (but I use my friends US address and other services for international transactions just to be safe).
- gtk40 6y ago
  > As one of the first online banks (I know Ally was a little ahead of them) Am I missing something? As far as I can tell, Simple didn't start doing business until 2012. I remember around 2012 opening my first on-line bank account and having a plethora of options. I had heard about Simple but it was still in beta and I couldn't get an account. There were on-line banks going back to the 90s, such as First Internet Bank.
jesse_cureton 6y ago
The "additional support" they opened Sunday was a nightmare - lots of recordings on Twitter of the call center either hanging up on you in the phone tree, getting a rep who immediately says they cannot hear you before hanging up, or even reps who just laughed and hung up when you mentioned Simple. I spent the better part of my Sunday calling trying to get my account unlocked, since it was automatically locked when their services collapsed during enrollment on Saturday.
- AzzieElbab 6y ago
  Sounds like leaving some users in limbo was a conscious decision made by the parent banks it
  - jesse_cureton 6y ago
    This is entirely possible, though to me it seems more likely that an executive team ruled out doing transitions in batches. Then, when their online banking enrollment system encountered some reasonably-sized subset of Simple's 3 million customers Saturday morning, it simply keeled over. In my account's case it was able to provision my account when I enrolled, but the web portal then threw up some opaque errors and didn't let me complete enrollment. Without the latter steps of 2FA/security questions/etc that I couldn't complete, my account was locked without access until I could reach a phone operator.
    - AzzieElbab 6y ago
      Ouch. Hope you didnt keep critical amount of money on that account
CompMan411 6y ago
I’ve been a simple customer since the beginning. I use Novo banking for my business after I had major problems with Chase when they returned a $16k check and blamed it on me then locked me out of my account, truly a horrific experience for a customer with a 20 year business history. But I digress. Overall I was pretty happy with simple. When I came to this transition or any transition like this I take it as serious as a heart surgery, knowing one wrong move will send me into a gauntlet of forms and hours of phone calls. Situations like this, on this scale might be rare but on a personal level I’ve had terrible experiences with an assortment of companies due to malfunctioning software or bad employees. I was warned about the simple transition weeks in advance. I completed the transition Saturday morning with no errors. My accounts are working fine. Sorry others didn’t have my experience.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  The adversarial/cost-centre nature of these relationships makes me wonder if there need to be more services offered to the public to handle these issue: much like a company might use a collections agency to collect debt, maybe citizens can outsource things to services, like cancelling an account, requesting data, restoring an account etc. To some degree, laws may need to change (or be clarified) to support this: the legal right to have representation, so corps can't try the "we will only talk to the billholder"-BS, support SLAs and/or onbudsmen, right wrt recording support (if they can, we should be able to do to, without loss of support), penalties for giving incorrect information, etc etc etc.
  - snikeris 6y ago
    I don’t think any laws need to change. Individual action is sufficient. I’m unhappy with how BBVA handled this so I’ll be moving my money elsewhere.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - Chris2048 6y ago
      Individuals don't know their rights, and it is often inefficient to find out, or make legal challenges for a one-off; it changes if this is a reoccurring task.
m3kw9 6y ago
Simple bank was supposed to be a “a bank that doesn’t suck,”. First is sold out, then they do this
PascLeRasc 6y ago
In case it’s helpful to anyone else, I asked HN how they manage their money around a year and a half ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21853636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21853636
carpeaqua 6y ago
Glad I migrated away when they announced the transition. Simple helped me get debt free. I was sad to see it go and haven’t really found a replacement that works for me.
- cambrianentropy 6y ago
  Yeah I did the same when it was announced. My replacement bank (Ally) is fine but it feels clunky (website & app) like any other bank. Really liked how simple worked how seamlessly everything worked.
- finovator4321 6y ago
  I think in terms of feature, Envel is the most similar alternative I've found: https://www.envel.ai/envel-versus-simple/ https://www.envel.ai/envel-versus-simple/ They've been very proactive about collaborating with former Simple users, the main downside is no web app
jonathanwallace 6y ago
I closed down my simple account months ago. If only they would stop texting me daily about my account no longer being connected.
nraynaud 6y ago
using good venture-backed services is always a risk, they will either go public or get acquired and become exactly like the garbage we tried to avoid to begin with. I'm a N26 user I guess one day it will be my turn to have my fancy app taken from me.
circa 6y ago
I have been a simple customer from the beginning also. Probably since 2012. I just did the transition and had no issues so far. I hope that continues. Sorry to hear about all of these experiences.
finovator4321 6y ago
BBVA's support team was definitely overwhelmed this weekend: they should have planned the transition over several weeks. In terms of alternatives, I think Envel has the most similar features: https://www.envel.ai/envel-versus-simple/ https://www.envel.ai/envel-versus-simple/ They don't have a web app which is annoying, but tbh I do most everything on my phone so why not add banking?
hanniabu 6y ago
Yet everyone here still buries their head in the sand on the value proposition of cryptocurrencies.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
elzbardico 6y ago
The way most banks deploy software is downright scary. It usually involves a lot of manual steps running DDL in some enterprise database to create and change lots of views and stored procedures. Those DDL scripts were developed against some shared testing and staging databases that usually have crucial differences not only in the data but also in the structure. Nothing is automated, no easy way to restore stuff. People generating Java EAR files in an IDE and Ops people copying them to servers. Lots of enterprise software that is barely scriptable and need long sessions of point click and type in some awkward web UI. And let’s not even talk when there are mainframes involved. Things working the first time would be the real news here.
4d66ba06 6y ago
Check out Qube Money. I use it and although it is early, it functions very well as a never have to import transactions cash-like budgeting system.
tweenagedream 6y ago
I was a simple customer since before the BBVA acquisition, but once I heard that they were shutting down the main service I moved everything over to a cash reserve account in betterment, which I already had for investing. Since then I've opened an m1 finance account which had a 1% interest rate and 1% cash back if you use their debit card. (I tend to only use credit cards since the rewards are better) Closed my account a few weeks ago. sad to see simple go, it was refreshingly easy and just worked, had great features and was something I never thought about since it just worked.
cryptotoro 6y ago
On the bright side, traditional banking will be a thing of the past soon enough. Already looking forward to tell my grandchildren how we once had to walk into large shiny buildings and queue up to create "bank accounts" (why those were ever needed is going to be a tough one to explain).

287 points by Kye 6y ago

That doesn’t sound very simple.

Can confirm, it’s been a mess so far. Quite unfortunate considering that Simple was genuinely a good banking app/service.

nerdponx 6y ago

I'm always curious what actually happened on the backend here. Has anyone here had a similar situation happen on their watch? Postmortem analysis would be interesting.

sayhar 6y ago

Maybe I care too much about market power and consolidation, but this part struck me: > [Simple] was purchased by BBVA in 2014. > BBVA said in January that it would be shutting down Simple later in 2021. The decision came from the company “reassessing its goals” as part of a planned sale to PNC Bank, which reached an agreement to acquire BBVA’s US operations in November 2020. The consolidation problem seems to be getting worse everywhere. [1]. Gotta imagine they're connected. [2] https://concentrationcrisis.openmarketsinstitute.org/ https://concentrationcrisis.openmarketsinstitute.org/

vmception 6y ago
This is just irony. Try not to read too hard into it.
hardwaresofton 6y ago
This has been happening everywhere over the last decade or so, and it's the result of super loose fiscal policy. When debt is cheap for megacorps, banks and high net worth individual, money creation goes into over-drive, but not for cash strapped companies or individuals. Central banks doubled down on this last year as well -- it's debatable whether it's what they had to do or not but at this point I'm convinced all central banks really do is start bubbles and encourage moral hazard. Monopolies and duopolies emerging left and right. "Tech" Startups these days look more and more like convenient customer/innovation acquisition vehicles for inevitable big fish and less like small businesses.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  True. So treat deposit accounts and instant payments as a utility and have the Fed hand them out to everyone. If you want to offer something more fancy as a fintech or commercial bank, go for it if you can make the economics work. Search keywords for more info on this topic: “FedAccounts”, “Banking for All” Disclosure: I am actively advocating for this policy with policymakers.
  - clairity 6y ago
    having a public option that’s not subsidized and competing fairly is a reasonable policy. the biggest potential issue i see is having the federal govt middle-manning all those otherwise private financial transactions, but that could be mitigated by having a private and a public bank account, with instant transfers to move money back and forth. and offering these through the usps seems like a winning move, through their well-established post offices all across the country (at least the ones not sold off at fire-sale prices in the past few administrations).
  - hardwaresofton 6y ago
    That sounds like something that should definitely happen -- my worry is regulatory capture. I have very little confidence in the ability of politicians and related agencies to predict and defend against the machinations of private industry who would try to eke out a corner of the government-mandated gravy train for themselves for all time. Would FedAccounts be essentially FedWire extended for regular people? It seems like governments don't really share information otherwise we could just lift the tech from Sweden (Swish). It would be an absolute sea change, but I want I want to starve is the finance beast as a whole -- the hedge funds that front-run and sometimes directly exploit pension funds, etc. I personally think that one of the biggest things someone could do to unwind the current financial system's largess is just ply a bunch of money/expertise/tech at improving credit unions. I maintain an account at a credit union and I absolutely love it, the people that worked there actually seemed happy, plugged in to the local economy and society. It is bonkers to me that anyone still banks at the large institutions (the ones famous for overdraft "protection") with local credit unions being as good as they are (and often very competitive on rates). If the large institutions don't get all the deposit flow, then they can't offer the huge leverage to the firms, HNW individuals, etc -- credit unions aren't going to be out there offering 15x+ leverage to Archegos Capital. Since what I've written is essentially a wishlist/vapor-policy, let's reinstate Glass-Steagall while we're at it.
throwaway481048 6y ago
Sadly, the act of many “traditional” companies acquiring relevant and/or competing businesses seems to simply lessen competition. So much for utilizing that acquisition’s unique edge on the market in terms of product, team, etc... While certainly a privilege, I empathize with founders who reach their “exit” dream, yet remain in a moral conundrum over whether what they just did actually benefits anyone but themselves.
brutal_chaos_ 6y ago
Antitrust is not a thing in America anymore. (Ok, my opinion, but really? Has there been any major antitrust suits since the Microsoft one? Please do say so if there was, I'd be interested in reading the case(s)).
- astura 6y ago
  DoJ blocked AT&T from purchasing TMobile. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_purchase_of_T-Mobile_USA_by_AT%26T https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_purchase_of_T-Mobi... However, TMobile went on to purchase Sprint, so...
  - casefields 6y ago
    Which is a slightly better outcome. Had it gone through Verizon would've bought Sprint leaving us with a real duopoly.
linsomniac 6y ago
IIRC, the 2014 transition to BBVA (from Compass) also didn't go entirely smoothly. I had to contact support in that, and ISTR they said they were really slammed because of issues with the transition. My problem ended up being that I was withdrawing money from an ATM saying it was a "Savings Account" rather then "Checking", which used to work but stopped in the transition. Took a few weeks to figure out that was the problem though, because they were having other issues as well.
- floatingatoll 6y ago
  I believe that Simple launched on Bancorp and then transitioned to BBVA Compass after their acquisition by BBVA. (BBVA bought Compass in 2007, Simple in 2014, and folded the Compass brand in 2019.)
  - linsomniac 6y ago
    Thank you, yes, Bancorp was totally what I was thinking of.
tptacek 6y ago
Did BBVA "consolidate" Simple, or provide a soft landing for them? If Simple wasn't long-term viable anyways, it's hard to see consolidation as the problem here.
- tadfisher 6y ago
  We could have been viable. We were also the first movers, and had a uniquely bad scenario that required an immediate sale. Younger competitors are in the news for their $1b+ valuations (Chime).
  - relyks 6y ago
    Simple was way better than Chime, Varo, or any of the other newer "millennial" banks. It's a shame it didn't work out :(
  - sayhar 6y ago
    What was the scenario?
    - tadfisher 6y ago
      We had courted an investor and our runway ran right up until the expected cash from said investor. At the last second, the investor pulled out of the deal. The cofounders and key team members mortgaged their homes to make payroll while we searched for a buyer to keep the company going. That buyer ended up being BBVA, and the rest is history.
      - tptacek 6y ago
        Right, so: BBVA didn't so much target Simple for "consolidation" so much as rescue the employees of Simple.
freetanga 6y ago
Banking is expensive- not only on operational topics, but also on Risk Coverage. Too much capital required, little returns on capital tied down. So it’s becoming increasingly difficult for smaller CUs to grow - they are doom to stagnate or merge. Concentration is somewhat inevitable, sadly. BTW Simple was not a real bank per se, most of the back office and core IT services (which amount to 80pc of non-branches cost) was provided by BBVA Compass (meaning BBVA had already consolidated IT and Ops in the US 5 y ago, to reduce capital contraints.
URSpider94 6y ago
This country has sooo many banks. So many. I don’t see consolidation as a big problem in the banking industry.
- criddell 6y ago
  If they are too big to fail, then they are too big.
  - URSpider94 6y ago
    None of them are too big to fail. We have proven that. All banks should be regulated properly so that they can withstand risks from market excursions. In addition, all bank deposits are insured.

maxov 6y ago

This is pretty unfortunate. I loved using Simple for three or so years; it was my first independent bank account. It was a great app and beautiful design with innovative banking features, like budgeting and super easy high-interest savings accounts. As soon as I heard about the shutdown I closed my accounts and moved away from Simple, and it seems like it was the right decision. For anyone looking for an alternative, I'm using Wealthfront Cash now and I highly recommend it. They used to have super great interest rates but are now at about 0.10% APY, which is worse than others (I think you can get up to 0.50% APY right now at other places, with caveats). Although I keep minimal cash so it's not a huge difference. They do track the Fed interest rates pretty well, so I think many of the alternatives are just behind and will eventually have to lower their interest rates too. They have some nice features that Simple used to, like different categories and automatic savings/transfer to investment. The one sticking point is that they don't support cash deposits (perhaps it's possible through their partner Green Dot?), so I use a big bank checking account for that and nothing else.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
toast0 6y ago
> As soon as I heard about the shutdown I closed my accounts and moved away from Simple, and it seems like it was the right decision. Indeed, getting out before things fully wind down is going to go smoother for so many things; a good habit to get into. > I think you can get up to 0.50% APY right now at other places, with caveats. My primary credit union, Star One, has 0.5% on savings for the past year? or so, field of membership includes Santa Clara County, Alameda County, Merced County, Monterey County, San Benito County, San Joaquin County, San Mateo County, Santa Cruz County, and Stanislaus County; ask around for a referral code because there's a decent referral bonus; if you jump through hoops, you can get 0.5% on checking too. Penfed has 0.45% and no geo restrictions if you join a club (but I haven't done it). Capital One has 0.4%, but is Capital One. If you're getting 0.1% you're doing it wrong.
- kqr2 6y ago
  Just curious what is wrong with Capital One?

laptop-man 6y ago

yeah, can transfer my account due to technical issues.. ffs

Jtsummers 6y ago
I closed my account over a month ago when BBVA revealed the new policy terms. Interest rates were already dropping and were going to get worse. Fees that hadn’t been present were getting added on. Losing the budgeting features meant there was no point in being with BBVA when nearly every other bank has either better fees, interest rates, or both.
- laptop-man 6y ago
  I'm planning on closing mine. only reason I kept mine was taxs were just filed and I was just in the start of a job change. there's no way I'd stay with their fee structure
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    It was my second account. I had one for the household but liked using Simple. They wouldn’t let me open a joint account with my wife (green card holder) so it couldn’t be my primary account. I only had my “allowance” money in there by the time they closed. I’d convinced a lot of friends who were so-so with finances to try it and the budgeting feature helped them a ton. Squandered opportunity by BBVA.

Austin_Conlon 6y ago

Anyone know what went wrong at Simple (if anything) that led to them selling to BBVA?

edoceo 6y ago
Maybe nothing? Build a company, get clients (ie: take from competition), get noticed, get bought. Circle of life. Here's the post about the buy https://www.bbva.com/en/bbva-acquires-simple-to-accelerate-digital-banking-expansion/ https://www.bbva.com/en/bbva-acquires-simple-to-accelerate-d...
nieve 6y ago
BBVA was also one of the initial venture funders for Simple.
banana-stand 6y ago
One of Simple's co-founders posted about this on Reddit recently: https://www.reddit.com/r/SimpleBanking/comments/lxxkdy/simple_cofounders_on_clubhouse_tonight/gpr41w2 https://www.reddit.com/r/SimpleBanking/comments/lxxkdy/simpl... TL;DR It was a desperate move to keep the company going after a large financial backer bailed.

PascLeRasc 6y ago

The shutdown has been such a drain on my mental health. I’ve lost sleep most nights for the past 4 months trying all the replacements and I’ve lost money from none of them being helpful. Buying a cup of coffee is now anxiety inducing.

lykr0n 6y ago
There are a fair number of "app first" banks like simple was out there. But the problem is that you might not be able to keep using them in a few years... Varo, MoneyLion, Empower, Chime, and others that can be found by browsing around on the app store are good. MX powered Credit Unions (like BECU) also are really good. Marcus Inights is also a good app to use, but it's not super advanced.
hammeiam 6y ago
While it's not an integrated savings/budget app like Simple, I think YNAB has a similar spirit as Simple + a great community. It's a pure budgeting app, but you'll know exactly what every dollar is doing.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- noahtallen 6y ago
  As someone who switched from Simple to a “traditional” bank + YNAB, it is definitely a lot more in depth and less simple. I think it’s a good option for keeping track of everything and coming up with better plans though. One major downside of simple was not having credit card purchases inline. But Simple’s goals and expenses I think were easier to use even if less advanced. There is definitely more of a learning curve to YNAB.
michaelmarion 6y ago
I’ve been using Monarch lately and I love it. https://www.monarchmoney.com/ https://www.monarchmoney.com/
dstaley 6y ago

aaronmgdr 6y ago

I had simple since the opened and loved them. when I heard they were shutting down I withdrew almost all my funds in February. but left a $250 in there for a month incase there were any autopayments i had missed. When i tried to transfer the money out in March every transfer kept leaving the account and then coming back a few days later. Only managed to get the funds out by moving them into paypal.

MadVikingGod 6y ago

I'm really sad that Simple has gone away. It's way of managing money worked for me, and nothing I've found replaces it. now I'm also really glad that when I got BBVA's terms I said "Hell no!" And found a different bank.

joshstrange 6y ago
You might want to check out One Finance [0], that's what I switched to. While I use YNAB for managing my money it feels like this is the spiritual successor to Simple in a lot of ways. [0] https://www.onefinance.com/ https://www.onefinance.com/
- codyogden 6y ago
  Be prepared to expect to send a photo of your drivers license and a selfie basically any time you want to interact with customer service.
  - joshstrange 6y ago
    Interesting, I just started with them recently and haven’t needed support yet but I’ll keep that in mind. I’ll miss Simple’s support, especially in the early days...
jesse_cureton 6y ago
I was in the same boat - check out DAS Budget. It's currently more or less a 1:1 clone of Simple's UX and is available as an open beta on both iOS and Android It uses Plaid for its banking backend, and so far is working quite well for me and my partner

sakopov 6y ago

Simple was pretty awesome. I've been a customer from day one and I started looking for a replacement as soon as they announced the shutdown. I eventually moved to Radius and it doesn't even come close to the level of experience of Simple. It's a shame to see them go down and in such a way. Has anyone who was a customer found a fitting replacement?

Breefield 6y ago
One finance is close (so far) except that if I spend more than my spend pocket has, the charge is rejected it doesn’t pull from all pockets.

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago

"We know not having online and mobile access to your account is unacceptable" is some refreshingly clear and direct apology language. I don't know if the typical corporate bullshit-speak resonates better with the average person, but this apology would make me a lot less angry with the company (if I were affected) than the typical vague statements companies seem to emit in such cases, even though the end result is the same.

dstaley 6y ago
FWIW, this was standard operating procedure when dealing with upset customers at Apple Retail. If I remember correctly, it was referred to as "Acknowledge, Align, Assure". This is the acknowledging bit, and the latter portion of the sentence contains the assure bit ("we will continue to do all we can").
- smt88 6y ago
  Someone should tell that to Apple's tech support. Their motto seems to be "Deny, Blame, Upsell" -- until there is a class action, anyway.
  - breakingcups 6y ago
    My dad, upon bringing his crashing MacBook back into the Apple Store, was told by the Apple Store employee: "No no sir, Apples do not 'crash'." (Turned out to be a bulging battery pressing on the wrong parts, leading to random kernel panics.) So he moved back to Windows for all his music production work and has been satisfied with that move ever since.
fireattack 6y ago
I don't know. I do like their statement since it's direct and not vague as you said. However, I've seen multiple times on Internet that a company made an apology which looked fair to me as a bystander, while people who were affected screamed "sorry but not sorry". I think it makes a big difference emotionally depending on if you're involved or not.

rarename 6y ago

The girl on bbva website is thick

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

priteshp 6y ago

Potential to earn 20% APY on Anchor Protocol by Terra Labs. Obviously not FDIC insured but worth the risk compared to the standard 0.5% rates on savings accounts we have been accustomed to in the US.

neilv 6y ago

Kye 6y ago
Not even remotely. Simple was Simple in the way people mean when the say they want simple. Not bare, or sparse. Just very clear and easy to use. BBVA's interface isn't horrible, but it reeks of 2000s web banking.
- CompMan411 6y ago
  I can confirm. Simple’s app was beautiful, elegant, fast, easy to use, didn’t flash unnecessary or ugly (Account numbers, innocuous warnings, Bad UI elements, Broken transitions, switching between the app and the web interface); things Chase, US bank, city, Bank of America are all guilty of. I loved being able to set aside money with the simple account. Now I have first hand experience with BBVA as well. I’ll give it to them their app is pretty good. It’s clean, fast, and the transitions are good. Logging in is fast and easy. But boy the app experience is not anything I would call elegant. It was clearly designed by very square people with lawyers and accountants as their inspiration.
- finovator4321 6y ago
  I've found One Finance and Envel to have the most user friend interfaces, although nothing compares to Simple ;(

saynotobloat 6y ago

BBVA heavily offshores / contracts it’s IT. You get what you pay for.

cproctor 6y ago

Now that there are (finally) services like Plaid providing API access to financial accounts, it feels like there is an opportunity to separate the front-end (UI, budgeting and reporting tools) from the back-end (interest payments, wire transfers) of banking.

mulcahey 6y ago
PLEASE let this be the direction we go in. The traditional banks will never be good at UX because they can't attract the talent. Their apps are always a bloated mess of web views. I loved Simple because it lived up to it's name -- it was dead SIMPLE! For example, 99% percent of the time when I open the app I just wanted to view the list of my transactions. Many banks can't even do that right. Other than that I primarily just want to move money in and out as easily as possible. One example of a well executed front end / back end model is the Apple Card where Goldman Sachs manages the back end. The Apple Card doesn't have the best rates and rewards programs but to be honest I don't give two shits about any of that. I want it to "just work" like the iOS home screen. I want notifications not to be a buggy mess. I want fast and reliable access to support. If Apple does checking accounts (backed by Goldman or whoever) and checked the basic feature set I'd switch to them instantly. Everyone's finances are getting more complicated with more subscriptions and such. Despite this headwind I still want to spend as little time as possible poking around a UX from hell as possible.
- wmf 6y ago
  Simple was also running on a legacy bank back end... until they got shut down that is. Nothing can really prevent startups from selling out. (Obviously we don't have to worry about Apple being bought by Goldman and shut down.) Capital One managed to buy Adaptive Path so it's possible to attract the talent in some cases.
rainonmoon 6y ago
An example that strikes me as a stepping stone towards this (although, I believe, a little less clear cut) is Up in Australia, a partnership between a software company and Bendigo Bank, e.g. https://up.com.au/blog/up-cycling-core-banking/ https://up.com.au/blog/up-cycling-core-banking/

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

NaturalPhallacy 6y ago

>Simple opened to customers in 2012 and was supposed to offer a digital-first approach to banking. In fewer words, it was supposed to be “a bank that doesn’t suck,” to quote one of its co-founders. The service had a website and app that broke down your spending and made it easy to categorize payments, send money, and set savings goals. It was purchased by BBVA in 2014. >BBVA said in January that it would be shutting down Simple later in 2021. The decision came from the company “reassessing its goals” as part of a planned sale to PNC Bank, which reached an agreement to acquire BBVA’s US operations in November 2020. The acquisition has not yet closed. Why is it even possible for a bank - or any company really - to buy up its competition? Let alone buy it up, and then just shut it down. It's like "we didn't like having to compete so we just used our orders of magnitude more wealth than the average person and just deleted them from existence".

duxup 6y ago
Well that's relative to competition right? In the US there are A LOT of banks / competition.
jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
It gets worse. There are plenty of examples of where a company in a dominant market position with ample cash to work with used bully lawsuits to bankrupt an emerging competitor, then bought them in receivership only to kill the company in total the next instant. For me personally the salient example is what Creative did to Aureal, because what happened is particularly clear cut. I'm not joking when I say the Aureal drivers and support website went offline the very day the bankruptcy acquisition committed. Likewise, there are some pretty infamous examples of the giants doing this crap to each other, like this one: https://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/044.html https://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/044.html
- thedevelopnik 6y ago
  I used to work for Fanatics.com. Together with UnderArmor, they outbid Majestic for the MLB jersey contract. Majestic had had the contract since the 70s. Majestic immediately filed for bankruptcy. Which was good news for UnderArmor and Fanatics, because they didn’t have any ability to make baseball jerseys. So they bought Majestic for a dime on the dollar since it was bankrupt.

dmoy 6y ago

That's wild, reading that article. It wasn't mentioned there, but for point of comparison, look at FDIC turnover time. If a bank shuts down and goes into FDIC receivership, it re-opens the next day. In some complicated cases, they shutter on Friday and re-open on Monday while working over the weekend to get things in order. Yes, that's a completely separate ball game, and is less complicated by the fact that they prioritize re-opening the brick and mortar banks themselves not a purely online bank. But - it feels like it should be handled better in a software world, not worse. Oh well :\

casefields 6y ago
Because it's to allay fears. Our systems foundation is on trust and without it would be catastrophic. It's why if you look around prices everywhere are rising but the FED says only a small amount of inflation is predicted. It's a noble lie to avoid the panic and anger if the public knew serious inflation was coming. It's a self-fulfilling feedback loop once the public knows. Same type of lie from Fauci at the beginning about the mask. Fear instead of trust leads to bad things. He did apologize for the lie to 60 minutes saying it was necessary because healthcare professionals need them. Talk about a death panel of one.
rossdavidh 6y ago
Especially egregious given that, since it was voluntary on the bank's part, they could simply (haha) have transitioned different people at different times. Start with transitioning a single customer, make sure it goes well, then a few dozen, etc. Spend a little money on incentives for people to volunteer to go early, it wouldn't take that much money to get a few dozen volunteers. It's one thing if it goes poorly in a disaster-response kind of situation, where you could not practice beforehand. But this is a self-imposed transition, with at least some control over the timeline, so they should have been able to find these kinds of issues in beta testing.
dmuth 6y ago
> If a bank shuts down and goes into FDIC receivership, it re-opens the next day. Have I got a story for you. What you described normally happens.... Unless the bank fails so hard that no buyer for it is found, and then the FDIC insurance kicks in. I know, because it happened to me back in 2012. :-) My bank failed, and they were in such bad shape that nobody wanted to buy it! I got an email on a Saturday morning stating that my bank had failed. Here's a copy of said email: https://imgur.com/a/HR42BxZ https://imgur.com/a/HR42BxZ The following Thursday, the check from the FDIC for the contents of my bank account arrived in the mail.

tjbiddle 6y ago

Not that I'm by any means happen with the shut-down, but my transition to BBVA was super smooth. Went to Simple, it redirected to BBVA, followed the instructions to create an account, logged in, verified all my account balances were the same as before. Now, my only desire is to come up with another solution to replace Simple's "Goals" with something. I loved being able to daily set aside money. I'm thinking I'll just make a self-hosted app for personal use and link up with Plaid, and then it won't matter what bank I use.

andrewxdiamond 6y ago
Ally bank has very similar features to simple. Their buckets/goals are a bit more configurable too

qshaman 6y ago

The are (were) the only bank I know of in the US, that does not allow non US citizens to open an account. Even if you had a green card , a SSN , you weren’t able to open an account. I’m happy they are gone.

raymondh 6y ago

Per the article, BBVA is “reassessing its goals”. This is amusing given that the original goal was “to be a bank that doesn’t suck.”

dan1234 6y ago
No, Simple were supposed to be “a bank that doesn’t suck,”. BBVA are part of the old guard who probably saw Simple as a threat so scooped them up while they were still small & cheap.

cbhl 6y ago

I recall when Simple transitioned from Bancorp to BBVA as part of the BBVA acquisition, and it... did not go smoothly. Days of downtime, and double-spends on transactions that did go through. As someone living paycheck-to-paycheck at the time, I promptly moved my spending (and my paycheck) back to a traditional bank.

tadfisher 6y ago
You're probably remembering a different transition, which was the move from TxVia to Fiserv for debit processing. That was in the works before the acquisition and we were right up against a deadline, and it did not go well. The later Bancorp -> BBVA transition was very smooth, aside from BBVA's policies forcing us to close accounts (e.g. they didn't support resident non-citizens of any form).

ilaksh 6y ago

I was not able to do the account transition yesterday, but tonight it worked. First thing I did was opt out of "overdraft protection". It's was so nice with Simple because I never had to worry that they would start taking advantage if I ran out of money. They just declined the transaction. And apparently were able to operate that way for years. But I wonder if they were just not able to compete with the profits of other banks that enjoy the lucrative business of kicking customers when they are down with overdraft fees.

ulisesrmzroche 6y ago

I’m switching to Chime. The BBVA site and app feel like a big step backward. For example, I like this auto save thing where they round up your purchases to the nearest dólar and deposit the money to a high interest savings account.

domatic1 6y ago

Bitcoin solves this

lolsal 6y ago
with lots of tradeoffs, sure.

Breefield 6y ago

They have $700 of mine. I deposited a cashiers check before account closure. They accepted the check then closed my account. Now I’m being given the runaround as Simple said they’d look into it—didn’t resolve in time and now BBVA is taking over.

2ion 6y ago

Any banking core system migration that's in the news is a gigantic incident. A testament to the state of IT infrastructure at big banks, and the people they trust with directing the development of these systems. A shitshow.

williesleg 6y ago

Thank you h1b visa holders for your shit code You need to go back to India and fix your shit hole country.

redis_mlc 6y ago

US Zoomers: don't fall for these "faux" banks. If the bank is less than 100 years old and it's not national, it's a fake bank.

technerd2000 6y ago

Not a great ending! I’ve been giving Envel a go so far looking like a great alternative, they have an envelope system like simple to manage expenses, love the direction they are taking, they are releasing many new features like simple and really responsive support team..only negative is no interest on savings accounts which doesn’t bother me much anyway as automated savings helps me more, but I think they are looking at interest soon but more interested in where they are heading and being with a bank that gives a **t https://twitter.com/envel_ai/status/1390705174335918083?s=21 https://twitter.com/envel_ai/status/1390705174335918083?s=21

kylehotchkiss 6y ago

I was an early Simple customer but ended up leaving the service when I found out their policy on being a digital nomad (not having a residential US address) was very strict. As one of the first online banks (I know Ally was a little ahead of them), I found this policy strangely prohibitive and closed my account. I ended up going to Navy Federal because my grandpa served in the Coast Guard and my experience with them has been phenomenal. Really no issues at all, no fees, website and app work as well as I need them to. I liked keeping my car loan in-house there and will eventually open a mortgage with them. The few times I've needed to visit a branch have been painfree. And because they're a military bank, they aren't as rigidly opposed to international addresses (but I use my friends US address and other services for international transactions just to be safe).

gtk40 6y ago
> As one of the first online banks (I know Ally was a little ahead of them) Am I missing something? As far as I can tell, Simple didn't start doing business until 2012. I remember around 2012 opening my first on-line bank account and having a plethora of options. I had heard about Simple but it was still in beta and I couldn't get an account. There were on-line banks going back to the 90s, such as First Internet Bank.

jesse_cureton 6y ago

The "additional support" they opened Sunday was a nightmare - lots of recordings on Twitter of the call center either hanging up on you in the phone tree, getting a rep who immediately says they cannot hear you before hanging up, or even reps who just laughed and hung up when you mentioned Simple. I spent the better part of my Sunday calling trying to get my account unlocked, since it was automatically locked when their services collapsed during enrollment on Saturday.

AzzieElbab 6y ago
Sounds like leaving some users in limbo was a conscious decision made by the parent banks it
- jesse_cureton 6y ago
  This is entirely possible, though to me it seems more likely that an executive team ruled out doing transitions in batches. Then, when their online banking enrollment system encountered some reasonably-sized subset of Simple's 3 million customers Saturday morning, it simply keeled over. In my account's case it was able to provision my account when I enrolled, but the web portal then threw up some opaque errors and didn't let me complete enrollment. Without the latter steps of 2FA/security questions/etc that I couldn't complete, my account was locked without access until I could reach a phone operator.
  - AzzieElbab 6y ago
    Ouch. Hope you didnt keep critical amount of money on that account

CompMan411 6y ago

I’ve been a simple customer since the beginning. I use Novo banking for my business after I had major problems with Chase when they returned a $16k check and blamed it on me then locked me out of my account, truly a horrific experience for a customer with a 20 year business history. But I digress. Overall I was pretty happy with simple. When I came to this transition or any transition like this I take it as serious as a heart surgery, knowing one wrong move will send me into a gauntlet of forms and hours of phone calls. Situations like this, on this scale might be rare but on a personal level I’ve had terrible experiences with an assortment of companies due to malfunctioning software or bad employees. I was warned about the simple transition weeks in advance. I completed the transition Saturday morning with no errors. My accounts are working fine. Sorry others didn’t have my experience.

Chris2048 6y ago
The adversarial/cost-centre nature of these relationships makes me wonder if there need to be more services offered to the public to handle these issue: much like a company might use a collections agency to collect debt, maybe citizens can outsource things to services, like cancelling an account, requesting data, restoring an account etc. To some degree, laws may need to change (or be clarified) to support this: the legal right to have representation, so corps can't try the "we will only talk to the billholder"-BS, support SLAs and/or onbudsmen, right wrt recording support (if they can, we should be able to do to, without loss of support), penalties for giving incorrect information, etc etc etc.
- snikeris 6y ago
  I don’t think any laws need to change. Individual action is sufficient. I’m unhappy with how BBVA handled this so I’ll be moving my money elsewhere.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    Individuals don't know their rights, and it is often inefficient to find out, or make legal challenges for a one-off; it changes if this is a reoccurring task.

m3kw9 6y ago

Simple bank was supposed to be a “a bank that doesn’t suck,”. First is sold out, then they do this

PascLeRasc 6y ago

In case it’s helpful to anyone else, I asked HN how they manage their money around a year and a half ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21853636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21853636

carpeaqua 6y ago

Glad I migrated away when they announced the transition. Simple helped me get debt free. I was sad to see it go and haven’t really found a replacement that works for me.

cambrianentropy 6y ago
Yeah I did the same when it was announced. My replacement bank (Ally) is fine but it feels clunky (website & app) like any other bank. Really liked how simple worked how seamlessly everything worked.
finovator4321 6y ago
I think in terms of feature, Envel is the most similar alternative I've found: https://www.envel.ai/envel-versus-simple/ https://www.envel.ai/envel-versus-simple/ They've been very proactive about collaborating with former Simple users, the main downside is no web app

jonathanwallace 6y ago

I closed down my simple account months ago. If only they would stop texting me daily about my account no longer being connected.

nraynaud 6y ago

using good venture-backed services is always a risk, they will either go public or get acquired and become exactly like the garbage we tried to avoid to begin with. I'm a N26 user I guess one day it will be my turn to have my fancy app taken from me.

circa 6y ago

I have been a simple customer from the beginning also. Probably since 2012. I just did the transition and had no issues so far. I hope that continues. Sorry to hear about all of these experiences.

finovator4321 6y ago

BBVA's support team was definitely overwhelmed this weekend: they should have planned the transition over several weeks. In terms of alternatives, I think Envel has the most similar features: https://www.envel.ai/envel-versus-simple/ https://www.envel.ai/envel-versus-simple/ They don't have a web app which is annoying, but tbh I do most everything on my phone so why not add banking?

hanniabu 6y ago

Yet everyone here still buries their head in the sand on the value proposition of cryptocurrencies.

deleted 6y ago
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elzbardico 6y ago

The way most banks deploy software is downright scary. It usually involves a lot of manual steps running DDL in some enterprise database to create and change lots of views and stored procedures. Those DDL scripts were developed against some shared testing and staging databases that usually have crucial differences not only in the data but also in the structure. Nothing is automated, no easy way to restore stuff. People generating Java EAR files in an IDE and Ops people copying them to servers. Lots of enterprise software that is barely scriptable and need long sessions of point click and type in some awkward web UI. And let’s not even talk when there are mainframes involved. Things working the first time would be the real news here.

4d66ba06 6y ago

Check out Qube Money. I use it and although it is early, it functions very well as a never have to import transactions cash-like budgeting system.

tweenagedream 6y ago

I was a simple customer since before the BBVA acquisition, but once I heard that they were shutting down the main service I moved everything over to a cash reserve account in betterment, which I already had for investing. Since then I've opened an m1 finance account which had a 1% interest rate and 1% cash back if you use their debit card. (I tend to only use credit cards since the rewards are better) Closed my account a few weeks ago. sad to see simple go, it was refreshingly easy and just worked, had great features and was something I never thought about since it just worked.

cryptotoro 6y ago

On the bright side, traditional banking will be a thing of the past soon enough. Already looking forward to tell my grandchildren how we once had to walk into large shiny buildings and queue up to create "bank accounts" (why those were ever needed is going to be a tough one to explain).