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Eating sardines regularly helps prevent type 2 diabetes

142 points by rustoo 5y ago

Ecco 5y ago
“Sardines will therefore have a protective element because they are rich in the aforementioned nutrients, whereas nutrients taken in isolation in the form of supplements won’t work to the same extent” : to me this reads as “we found a correlation but we are clueless about the root cause”.
- evgen 5y ago
  No, it simply repeats the commonly understood fact that it is better to have a diet rich in specific nutrients than to try to use supplements to make up the difference. Everything from dosage to bio-availability of supplements shows them to mostly be not worth the price of manufacture, let alone the price people pay at the till.
  - podgaj 5y ago
    There are times, however, the high-dose vitamins Are the only thing that can replace a deficiency Quickly enough. Two of them that come to mind are zinc and biotin. So like everything else in nutrition, it depends, of deficiencies and genetics.
- vanderZwan 5y ago
  While I can follow that line of thinking, we also shouldn't immediately be dismissive of the conclusions of a professor/researcher at a faculty of health sciences. At least not without a good reason to believe that we have more expertise on the subject than them. On the other hand, there might also be a bit of Spanish cultural bias at work there (Spain is the second-largest consumer of fish after Japan). On the other other hand, it would fit into the mystery of the mediterranean diet.
  - Ecco 5y ago
    I didn’t mean to dismiss their conclusions! It might be a pretty awesome discovery actually: eat delicious sardines and avoid getting diabetes? Count me in! I just meant that, as is often the case, great discoveries are often made before we really understand them. For example, isn’t this what happened with antibiotics?
    - vanderZwan 5y ago
      Ah, like that! Fair enough, thank you for elaborating (please consider adding a bit of extra context next time, it will go a long way to prevent such misunderstandings)
- woko 5y ago
  True. The "root cause" could be that one improves one's diet: - if you take "sardine" supplement pills and go on eating burgers and fries, do not expect a miracle with respect to type 2 pre-diabetes, - if you eat sardines as part of a meal, I suspect that you are likely to *replace* parts of your current diet with the (fatty) fish, rather than keep your usual diet and add fish on top of it. For instance, a funny paragraph from section 4 (Discussion) hints that the SG (Sardine Group) must have added less olive oil to the rest of their meals: > Another possible limitation of the study to bear in mind is the use of canned sardines in olive oil, which, despite easing distribution and consumption, present differences in MUFA content as compared to fresh sardines. Although this may have modified the pattern of lipids consumed, the SG group decreased their overall MUFA consumption. This could be due to the fact that the use of olive oil added to meals did not occur when they consumed the canned sardines and, therefore, there are no differences in its consumption with respect to CG. NB: I don't want to dismiss any part of the article, I only want to insist that it is hard to isolate causes because of this effect of "communicating vases".
  - podgaj 5y ago
    This is true, just adding sardines your diet will probably do nothing for most people. It’s more about the elimination of other things we eat as well. It wasn’t until I was eating only salmon for my fat and protein source that I was able to raise my HDL from 35 to 54!. I credit this to totally eliminating the omega-6 fats. But this is just me because I’m a genetic freak with hyperlipidemia.
    - lapsis_beeftech 5y ago
      Totally eliminating omega-6 from your diet can't be healthy, can it? There are only two essential fatty acids for humans and one of them (linoleic acid) is omega-6.
      - podgaj 5y ago
        Well, I exaggerated to make a point. Even salmon has long chain omega 6. I soul have said "eliminating plant based omega 6" and this is just for me and my genetics. People without certain FADS1 genetics can do fine with short chain omega 3 and 6.
- azalemeth 5y ago
  Edit - I managed to mis-read the press release and read through the wrong paper in detail! Disregard the below… <s> Quite. If you read the paper -- https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-59643-7.pdf https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-59643-7.pdf -- the word 'sardine' doesn't appear once; 'fish' doesn't either. The trouble with observational cohort studies is that causality is very hard, if not impossible, to identify. Their main result is based on multivariate logistic regression. I like logistic regression as a technique, and it is very powerful, but if, for example, there is an unmeasured cofounding or causal variable that manifests itself as a linear combination of a number of measured but perhaps more acausal variables, it _will_ confidently give you the wrong result. </s>
  - yawnxyz 5y ago
    Isn't this the paper...? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261561421001539?dgcid=author https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02615...
    - azalemeth 5y ago
      Do'h. Thank you – I'd skim-read the news release very quickly and jumped to the first paper linked, which I now see was published in 2020. Apologies.
- ackbar03 5y ago
  Since supplements have been brought up, what's with the American's obsession over supplements? It's like people are just chomping them down like they're some sort of food stable like bread or rice (or maybe that's just what all the youtube videos want you to think). Its like every bodybuilder on youtube has their own brand of supplements now. Don't even get me started on pre-workout. "Don't feel like working out? Chug this powder!"
  - KingMachiavelli 5y ago
    Certain segments of America tend to have poor diets. Especially the young, working class which happens to overlap with the bodybuilding class which makes whey protein a logical choice. Whey protein. It is very cheap; just add mix in a multivitamin and OTC stimulants like caffeine and you have a very marketable product with a 300% markup. The YouTube body building demographic is in the same economic class so capitalizing on a product their audience already uses makes perfect sense. Also, America is one of the few countries with consumer pharmaceutical advertising so marketing supplements is not out of the ordinary.
    - opportune 5y ago
      Approximately nobody mixes whey protein with caffeine. Not sure what you’re talking about
      - catblast01 5y ago
        Look up “protein coffee” and maybe try to lay off the snark a bit if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
  - bayesian_horse 5y ago
    Supplements don't cure diabetes. The sardines are a very high-fat food item that will satiate you and potentially replace a big load of carbohydrates. Which would affect the prediabetes.
  - opportune 5y ago
- ivanhoe 5y ago
  These are very complex bio-chem processes, so there's probably no single "root cause", but a multivariable situation where certain combinations of nutrients in certain proportion causes these beneficial effects. Also nutrients in supplements often don't have the same bioavailability as in natural products, so it's possible that you take in the same amount of nutrients per label, but your body actually ends up absorbing only a small % of it. Supplements are not that strictly regulated, so many of them are fairly poor quality products making wild claims, counting just on marketing BS to sell.
schwartzworld 5y ago
Sardines are a household favorite for us. My kids love them. The secret is, don't buy cheap ones. Look for brisling or any other small fish packed in olive oil. $3-5/can is a good sweet spot, although you can pay $9 for a can of imported Portuguese sardines no problem. Speaking of Portugal, they do grilled fresh sardines. My 3 year old insisted on eating them daily when we were in Lisbon
- culturestate 5y ago
  > Speaking of Portugal, they do grilled fresh sardines One of my Portuguese guilty pleasures, along with (ethically questionable, I know) octopus salad. Highly recommend trying this if you can get your hands on some fresh sardines. Edit: grilled sardines are also a Japanese thing, so you might have luck finding them at an Asian market if your fishmonger doesn't have them.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Haven't sardines, like most other fish, been overfished, making them ethically questionable too?
    - ptsneves 5y ago
      As a portuguese I can tell you that sardine stocks are heavily controlled and regulated and there are years where the catchable tonnage is severely reduced. As the fish markets are centralized, meaning fishermen need to sell their catch in a government auction house, you cannot really do industrial fishing out of allowed stock quotas. Sardines quotas are the target of heavy diplomatic negotiations with EU.
      - wjaugustyn 5y ago
        South Africa has a pretty strong S. sagax stock, but it all gets canned or ground into fish meal. Eating fresh sardines just isn’t part of the culture — so sad.
    - 5y ago
troydavis 5y ago
If anyone in the US is new to sardines, of the choices available in US grocery stores, Matiz is by far the best. I recommend ordering online, where you’ll find other great choices like La Gondola, Angelo Parodi, Nuri/Pinhais, and Bela. (If you’re in Europe, try Rödel sardines at least once in your life. They’re completely unavailable in North America.)
- giantg2 5y ago
  Great Value isn't too bad. They're cheap.
- AuryGlenz 5y ago
  What do you do with them? I’ve never made or had anything with sardines in my life.
  - biswaroop 5y ago
    I usually eat them with cheese and homemade bread. Sometimes I'll add a caprese salad on the side, and that's dinner. Another fantastic recipe is pasta con le sarde. It's a classic Sicilian pasta with sardines, fennel, saffron and nuts.
  - troydavis 5y ago
    Gently mash them up with some of the olive oil that’s in the tin (usually not all of it, or you’ll mostly be eating olive oil). Use that as a spread on bread, toast, or crackers, or mix with something that doesn’t have a lot of flavor on its own, like farro or another mild grain.
  - pimlottc 5y ago
    I usually just eat them straight on a cracker or toast, maybe with some mustard or mayo or some other nice spread
  - chadcmulligan 5y ago
    My Favourite recipe - sardines on toast - red onions sliced and cooked in brown sugar and vinegar (quick pickle), cook until the onion is cooked down. - Toast up a piece of sourdough - Spread with mustard - Add slices of tomato, sardines and red onion pickles on top, add some parsley or basil if you like. You can also had some capers if you're so inclined. or drizzle some lemon juice and/or olive oil on top
benevol 5y ago
On the other hand, it significantly reduces the health of certain sardines.
- kspacewalk2 5y ago
  And, unlike the original finding, this one is robust and unlikely to be due to confounders.
- Codesleuth 5y ago
  This article seems to be akin to many others that promote carnivorous diets. "Drinking milk reduces X" or "eating [insert animal here] improves Y" might be true, but you don't need to consume the animal (and prolong the environmental impacts) to get them.
  - podgaj 5y ago
    Wrong. There is a tremendous more amount of evidence that eating fish helps cardiovascular health. Unlike the “carnivore diet” where they just cherry pick RCTs. And for those who say “you don’t have to eat the animal to get the health benefits”, please tell that to any Inuit or Saami people. They lived on his diet for generations and it’s affected their genome as a result.
    - thraxil 5y ago
      Taurine, omega 3, calcium, and vitamin D, the nutrients discussed in the article are all available from sources other than fish. If you take someone who has a diet that's deficient in one or more those and give them sardines, then it's not surprising to see improvements. But it doesn't show that sardines/fish are the only way to get those benefits or that adding sardines/fish to a diet that isn't deficient in those nutrients would have any benefit. The fact that Inuit and Saami people have been able to survive on primarily meat diets only demonstrates that it's possible to survive on those diets, not that they are ideal in any way or better than any other diet.
      - 5y ago
nabla9 5y ago
>but their effect is usually caused by the synergy that exists between them It's simple result from the fact that least available essential nutrient is the most important for health outcomes. If you have a rain barrel full of holes, only fixing the lowest hole changes the water level. Fixing all other holes starts to have an effect after you have fixed the lowest one.
elric 5y ago
> Nutrients found in high quantities in sardines - such as taurine, omega 3, calcium and vitamin D Surely this applies to any kind of fatty fish?
- podgaj 5y ago
  Mostly white fish and cold water fish.
- chadcmulligan 5y ago
  Probably, but sardines are way cheaper and a lot easier to store. Also they're at the bottom of the food chain and so less heavy metals, and there are a lot more of them in the ocean and are in abundance. I've been a long time sardine advocate for a fatty fish instead of tuna or salmon, nice to see I have some reasons now to support it.
otabdeveloper4 5y ago
Fun fact: everyone who ate cabbage eventually died. Take care.
- raspasov 5y ago
  Appreciate the humor, but perhaps Urban Dictionary is a better venue for such a contribution.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- oddmiral 5y ago
  Correlation is not causation. Ice cream vs homicides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQfacqVvOEM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQfacqVvOEM
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
roland35 5y ago
My uncle used to come over and visit my family. He would play chess on our laptop (wasn't tech savvy but was amazing at chess) with a stack of sardines and a gallon of water. He'd then comment "haha your dog loves me! I wonder why?" as he tosses our dog another sardine. He was a funny and strange guy, but he loved those sardines! He did tell me back in the 90s that processed carbohydrates were really bad for you, so I think he was ahead of the curve!
- pimlottc 5y ago
  Did the sardines ever win?
- djmips 5y ago
  So he lived to a ripe old age?
podgaj 5y ago
I see it now, everyone going to their local mega grocery buying sardines packed in sunflower oil, Totally abolishing any of the positive effects of omega-3.
- raspasov 5y ago
  Yes... That's one of the things that concerns me also me about canned sardines. Even if it says "olive oil" I have a feeling that it's a pretty low quality one in most cases and definitely not EVOO (extra virgin olive oil) which is the good stuff. Looking for any specific recommendations for brands, websites etc.
- shock 5y ago
  Why is sunflower oil unhealthy?
  - throwamon 5y ago
    I don't think that's what they meant exactly, but rather that the amounts of omega-3 and 6 you consume should be in a specific ratio (or rather within a range of ratios), and the ratio in canned sardines is tilted towards the unhealthy side. There are other pairs of nutrients that follow this pattern as well. I highly recommend reading about them on Examine.com, but I suppose even Healthline will do.
  - mycologos 5y ago
    I think they're referring to sunflower oil's absence of Omega-3s. Per Wikipedia [1]: > The ratios of omega−6 to omega−3 fatty acids in some common vegetable oils are: canola 2:1, hemp 2–3:1, soybean 7:1, olive 3–13:1, sunflower, flax 1:3, cottonseed (almost no omega−3), peanut (no omega−3), grapeseed oil and corn oil 46:1. My understanding is that there's some Omega-6:Omega-3 ratio to shoot for, and most western diets are far more biased toward Omega-6, so adding some Omega-3 (sardines) along with a bunch of Omega-6 and no Omega-3 (sunflower oil) would actually work against that goal. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#Plant_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#Plant_sourc...
  - podgaj 5y ago
CyanDeparture 5y ago
If anyone is wondering how to eat sardines, open a tin (I like the tins with them in tomato sauce) and just mash them onto some toast. No need for butter. It is a glorious lunch.
- fctorial 5y ago
  What about parasites?
  - mycologos 5y ago
    ... what about them? Canned sardines are cooked?
  - crispyambulance 5y ago
    canned sardines are already cooked!
    - fctorial 5y ago
      Steam cooked. Parasites (especially their eggs) are very resilient. Meat that isn't fried or pressure cooked is not safe to eat.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
        If a person were concerned, where would they find more information about this?
      - mycologos 5y ago
        > very resilient Aren't canned fish heated to 100C+ and then sealed in an anaerobic environment? What parasite can survive this?
Havoc 5y ago
Don't like boney fish. Salmon on the other hand is nice...but comes with other concerns (environmental, heavy metals etc). Is there something in between?
- crispyambulance 5y ago
  FWIW, It's OK to eat the bones in canned sardines.
  - exhilaration 5y ago
    The bones in canned sardines are actually very good for you, that's where all the calcium is.
- mycologos 5y ago
  Some canned sardines are already de-boned, and for most bone-in canned sardines, you can just halve each one length-wise and pull out the spine in one piece. The bones are also totally edible themselves, albeit off-puttingly crunchy to some people.
- szundi 5y ago
  Domesticated salmon is not so healthy anyway, Omega-3 is coming from ocean algae. Not that Omega-3 is reproducibly shown to be healthy.
- ucha 5y ago
  Sardine or mackerel balls. Just remove the spine add an egg, some lemon juice and spices and boom, no bones and still delicious.
  - pinko 5y ago
    Thank you for this idea!
- exhilaration 5y ago
  If you're looking for a specific type of salmon my understanding is that wild Alaskan salmon has very low levels of mercury and the fisheries are healthy. I'm not sure where you are but it's widely available in the United States.
henearkr 5y ago
I don't understand their conclusion that no supplement can replace the sardine. They indicate that it's probably the combination of DHA, vitamin D, and calcium, that is good, so just make a supplement containing this combination? And if there are missing ingredients to the magic of sardine, just add them too? I don't see what's impossible, except that they want to support their country's fishing industry.
cortic 5y ago
>The fact that foods such as sardines - which are rich in taurine, omega 3, calcium and vitamin D - have a clear protective effect against the onset of diabetes does not mean that taking these supplements in isolation will have the same effect. The only way i can understand this statement it that Rizzolo doubts that anything in the sardines are actually affecting type 2 diabetes. So perhaps the oily taste is suppressing apatite for 'sweet' and decreasing the patients sugar intake (decreasing them cheating on their diet). Anyway a 152 patients study is not very conclusive, in larger studies there may not be any effect there at all.
- jdeibele 5y ago
  You might be right but what I've read of nutrition is that taking supplements is thought to be quite different than eating a whole food. Taking Vitamin C tablets is different than eating an orange because of all the other things that are in an orange. Or what's in spinach or kale or blueberries or sardines. I think that's the point she's making. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/supplements/art-20044894 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...
szundi 5y ago
I hate the fact that the text compares percentage decrease of a group of “high risk” with a group of “very high risk” that makes the whole story ambiguous. I hate this, and always think how these clever people make these kind of mistakes writing result texts. Or do they?
hourislate 5y ago
I have eaten 1 tin of Sardines everyday as my first meal for over 6 months. It takes the guess the work out of what to eat and the nutrition is off the charts, it basically replaces a handful of supplements. I've been using cronometer to track my diet and between the Sardines, a huge salad and a hunk of steak or liver, I only ever take the odd Magnesium supplement. Totally eliminated my need to buy expensive supplements. As it turns out, I find that 1500-1800 Kcal is more than enough everyday to leave me feeling stuffed and content and the Sardines alone keep me satiated for hours, what a superfood. Today's the last day to save $3 on a 6 pack of Sardines at Costco, I've bought about 6 cases over the last few weeks (180 + cans) to carry me for the next 6 months. Anyone who wants to lose weight and get healthy, this is the food that will make a huge difference.
hirundo 5y ago
> but only the intervention group added 200 grams of sardines to their diet every week (two cans of sardines in olive oil) So they significantly changed the macro nutrient ratios of the intervention group, along with the addition of sardines. I would like to see an intervention versus a control group with matched macros, to see if the effect is due to more sardines, or to more fat and protein and fewer carbohydrates.
jancsika 5y ago
Another plus is that you can pretend that sardines are regular-sized fish and that you are a giant who is eating them whole.
- inopinatus 5y ago
  You say that, but this article is going to be a shot in the fin for Big Sardine.
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  I thought it was just me that did that. On a more serious note, I just tried this excellent sardines recipe this week; Fisherman's Eggs [0]. Great for a high protein breakfast... [0] https://www.thesophisticatedcaveman.com/fishermans-eggs/ https://www.thesophisticatedcaveman.com/fishermans-eggs/
  - jancsika 5y ago
    Interesting, though I'd have to fry them up whole there. Otherwise the bones would get chopped up, suspending the disbelief and returning me to mere mortal size. (In that case they'd probably taste like small pieces of salmon bones instead of the entire skeleton of a big fish.)
    - tailspin2019 5y ago
      Hmmm yes I do see your point. Would it perhaps help to look backwards through a pair of binoculars while eating, so as to give the impression that the dish and its fishy contents are still small, thus maintaining the "giant" illusion? This could be further aided by using a somewhat oversized plate. Or perhaps use some particularly small eggs? (I think you'd be looking for some "Pullet eggs" in this case)
      - jancsika 5y ago
        Once the "wholeness" of the fish is gone, the jig is up. Brain: This is an entire fish. Brain: The body is too small for me to pull off regular bites with my hands. Brain: I must be a giant. Chawmp
bayesian_horse 5y ago
What will cure/prevent type 2 diabetes is a low-carb, high-fat diet. Sardines are a low-carb, high-fat food. Eating them replaces a big load of the carbs people usually consume, and just like that they reduce the amount of insulin they have to produce, reducing their insulin resistance and so on. Omega-3 fatty acids are just a slight benefit, probably, and not so much for the diabetes. But "Just eat a can of sardines every now and then" is just a lucky guess. There are a lot of additional, more effective ways to reduce insulin sensitivity.
- snarf21 5y ago
  Yeah, eating noting but sardines pizza isn't going to end well.
  - tartoran 5y ago
    Never heard of sardines pizza, is it really a thing?
    - NautilusWave 5y ago
      I remember cartoons/sitcoms in the 90's using sardines as a gross pizza topping, usually to highlight the quirkiness of a single character.
      - joe_guy 5y ago
        Those were anchovies. Anchovies are generally prepared salt packed and filleted. So they're thinn and salty. Very good for pizza. Sardines in the other hand are served headless but otherwise whole, they're very meaty and would be weird and mooshy on pizza.
        brutal_chaos_ 5y ago
        Typically anchovies yes, but sardines are also an "icky" topping.
biswaroop 5y ago
Fun fact about sardines: they used to be super popular in the US, until they were massively overfished on the west coast (Cannery Row is the classic example). They were gradually replaced over the 80s with milder fishes like tuna and tilapia.
mvidal01 5y ago
Unfortunatly sardines are high in purines so I get sometimes get gout when eating them.

142 points by rustoo 5y ago

Ecco 5y ago

“Sardines will therefore have a protective element because they are rich in the aforementioned nutrients, whereas nutrients taken in isolation in the form of supplements won’t work to the same extent” : to me this reads as “we found a correlation but we are clueless about the root cause”.

evgen 5y ago
No, it simply repeats the commonly understood fact that it is better to have a diet rich in specific nutrients than to try to use supplements to make up the difference. Everything from dosage to bio-availability of supplements shows them to mostly be not worth the price of manufacture, let alone the price people pay at the till.
- podgaj 5y ago
  There are times, however, the high-dose vitamins Are the only thing that can replace a deficiency Quickly enough. Two of them that come to mind are zinc and biotin. So like everything else in nutrition, it depends, of deficiencies and genetics.
vanderZwan 5y ago
While I can follow that line of thinking, we also shouldn't immediately be dismissive of the conclusions of a professor/researcher at a faculty of health sciences. At least not without a good reason to believe that we have more expertise on the subject than them. On the other hand, there might also be a bit of Spanish cultural bias at work there (Spain is the second-largest consumer of fish after Japan). On the other other hand, it would fit into the mystery of the mediterranean diet.
- Ecco 5y ago
  I didn’t mean to dismiss their conclusions! It might be a pretty awesome discovery actually: eat delicious sardines and avoid getting diabetes? Count me in! I just meant that, as is often the case, great discoveries are often made before we really understand them. For example, isn’t this what happened with antibiotics?
  - vanderZwan 5y ago
    Ah, like that! Fair enough, thank you for elaborating (please consider adding a bit of extra context next time, it will go a long way to prevent such misunderstandings)
woko 5y ago
True. The "root cause" could be that one improves one's diet: - if you take "sardine" supplement pills and go on eating burgers and fries, do not expect a miracle with respect to type 2 pre-diabetes, - if you eat sardines as part of a meal, I suspect that you are likely to *replace* parts of your current diet with the (fatty) fish, rather than keep your usual diet and add fish on top of it. For instance, a funny paragraph from section 4 (Discussion) hints that the SG (Sardine Group) must have added less olive oil to the rest of their meals: > Another possible limitation of the study to bear in mind is the use of canned sardines in olive oil, which, despite easing distribution and consumption, present differences in MUFA content as compared to fresh sardines. Although this may have modified the pattern of lipids consumed, the SG group decreased their overall MUFA consumption. This could be due to the fact that the use of olive oil added to meals did not occur when they consumed the canned sardines and, therefore, there are no differences in its consumption with respect to CG. NB: I don't want to dismiss any part of the article, I only want to insist that it is hard to isolate causes because of this effect of "communicating vases".
- podgaj 5y ago
  This is true, just adding sardines your diet will probably do nothing for most people. It’s more about the elimination of other things we eat as well. It wasn’t until I was eating only salmon for my fat and protein source that I was able to raise my HDL from 35 to 54!. I credit this to totally eliminating the omega-6 fats. But this is just me because I’m a genetic freak with hyperlipidemia.
  - lapsis_beeftech 5y ago
    Totally eliminating omega-6 from your diet can't be healthy, can it? There are only two essential fatty acids for humans and one of them (linoleic acid) is omega-6.
    - podgaj 5y ago
      Well, I exaggerated to make a point. Even salmon has long chain omega 6. I soul have said "eliminating plant based omega 6" and this is just for me and my genetics. People without certain FADS1 genetics can do fine with short chain omega 3 and 6.
azalemeth 5y ago
Edit - I managed to mis-read the press release and read through the wrong paper in detail! Disregard the below… <s> Quite. If you read the paper -- https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-59643-7.pdf https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-59643-7.pdf -- the word 'sardine' doesn't appear once; 'fish' doesn't either. The trouble with observational cohort studies is that causality is very hard, if not impossible, to identify. Their main result is based on multivariate logistic regression. I like logistic regression as a technique, and it is very powerful, but if, for example, there is an unmeasured cofounding or causal variable that manifests itself as a linear combination of a number of measured but perhaps more acausal variables, it _will_ confidently give you the wrong result. </s>
- yawnxyz 5y ago
  Isn't this the paper...? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261561421001539?dgcid=author https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02615...
  - azalemeth 5y ago
    Do'h. Thank you – I'd skim-read the news release very quickly and jumped to the first paper linked, which I now see was published in 2020. Apologies.
ackbar03 5y ago
Since supplements have been brought up, what's with the American's obsession over supplements? It's like people are just chomping them down like they're some sort of food stable like bread or rice (or maybe that's just what all the youtube videos want you to think). Its like every bodybuilder on youtube has their own brand of supplements now. Don't even get me started on pre-workout. "Don't feel like working out? Chug this powder!"
- KingMachiavelli 5y ago
  Certain segments of America tend to have poor diets. Especially the young, working class which happens to overlap with the bodybuilding class which makes whey protein a logical choice. Whey protein. It is very cheap; just add mix in a multivitamin and OTC stimulants like caffeine and you have a very marketable product with a 300% markup. The YouTube body building demographic is in the same economic class so capitalizing on a product their audience already uses makes perfect sense. Also, America is one of the few countries with consumer pharmaceutical advertising so marketing supplements is not out of the ordinary.
  - opportune 5y ago
    Approximately nobody mixes whey protein with caffeine. Not sure what you’re talking about
    - catblast01 5y ago
      Look up “protein coffee” and maybe try to lay off the snark a bit if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
- bayesian_horse 5y ago
  Supplements don't cure diabetes. The sardines are a very high-fat food item that will satiate you and potentially replace a big load of carbohydrates. Which would affect the prediabetes.
- opportune 5y ago
ivanhoe 5y ago
These are very complex bio-chem processes, so there's probably no single "root cause", but a multivariable situation where certain combinations of nutrients in certain proportion causes these beneficial effects. Also nutrients in supplements often don't have the same bioavailability as in natural products, so it's possible that you take in the same amount of nutrients per label, but your body actually ends up absorbing only a small % of it. Supplements are not that strictly regulated, so many of them are fairly poor quality products making wild claims, counting just on marketing BS to sell.

schwartzworld 5y ago

Sardines are a household favorite for us. My kids love them. The secret is, don't buy cheap ones. Look for brisling or any other small fish packed in olive oil. $3-5/can is a good sweet spot, although you can pay $9 for a can of imported Portuguese sardines no problem. Speaking of Portugal, they do grilled fresh sardines. My 3 year old insisted on eating them daily when we were in Lisbon

culturestate 5y ago
> Speaking of Portugal, they do grilled fresh sardines One of my Portuguese guilty pleasures, along with (ethically questionable, I know) octopus salad. Highly recommend trying this if you can get your hands on some fresh sardines. Edit: grilled sardines are also a Japanese thing, so you might have luck finding them at an Asian market if your fishmonger doesn't have them.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Haven't sardines, like most other fish, been overfished, making them ethically questionable too?
  - ptsneves 5y ago
    As a portuguese I can tell you that sardine stocks are heavily controlled and regulated and there are years where the catchable tonnage is severely reduced. As the fish markets are centralized, meaning fishermen need to sell their catch in a government auction house, you cannot really do industrial fishing out of allowed stock quotas. Sardines quotas are the target of heavy diplomatic negotiations with EU.
    - wjaugustyn 5y ago
      South Africa has a pretty strong S. sagax stock, but it all gets canned or ground into fish meal. Eating fresh sardines just isn’t part of the culture — so sad.
  - 5y ago

troydavis 5y ago

If anyone in the US is new to sardines, of the choices available in US grocery stores, Matiz is by far the best. I recommend ordering online, where you’ll find other great choices like La Gondola, Angelo Parodi, Nuri/Pinhais, and Bela. (If you’re in Europe, try Rödel sardines at least once in your life. They’re completely unavailable in North America.)

giantg2 5y ago
Great Value isn't too bad. They're cheap.
AuryGlenz 5y ago
What do you do with them? I’ve never made or had anything with sardines in my life.
- biswaroop 5y ago
  I usually eat them with cheese and homemade bread. Sometimes I'll add a caprese salad on the side, and that's dinner. Another fantastic recipe is pasta con le sarde. It's a classic Sicilian pasta with sardines, fennel, saffron and nuts.
- troydavis 5y ago
  Gently mash them up with some of the olive oil that’s in the tin (usually not all of it, or you’ll mostly be eating olive oil). Use that as a spread on bread, toast, or crackers, or mix with something that doesn’t have a lot of flavor on its own, like farro or another mild grain.
- pimlottc 5y ago
  I usually just eat them straight on a cracker or toast, maybe with some mustard or mayo or some other nice spread
- chadcmulligan 5y ago
  My Favourite recipe - sardines on toast - red onions sliced and cooked in brown sugar and vinegar (quick pickle), cook until the onion is cooked down. - Toast up a piece of sourdough - Spread with mustard - Add slices of tomato, sardines and red onion pickles on top, add some parsley or basil if you like. You can also had some capers if you're so inclined. or drizzle some lemon juice and/or olive oil on top

benevol 5y ago

On the other hand, it significantly reduces the health of certain sardines.

kspacewalk2 5y ago
And, unlike the original finding, this one is robust and unlikely to be due to confounders.
Codesleuth 5y ago
This article seems to be akin to many others that promote carnivorous diets. "Drinking milk reduces X" or "eating [insert animal here] improves Y" might be true, but you don't need to consume the animal (and prolong the environmental impacts) to get them.
- podgaj 5y ago
  Wrong. There is a tremendous more amount of evidence that eating fish helps cardiovascular health. Unlike the “carnivore diet” where they just cherry pick RCTs. And for those who say “you don’t have to eat the animal to get the health benefits”, please tell that to any Inuit or Saami people. They lived on his diet for generations and it’s affected their genome as a result.
  - thraxil 5y ago
    Taurine, omega 3, calcium, and vitamin D, the nutrients discussed in the article are all available from sources other than fish. If you take someone who has a diet that's deficient in one or more those and give them sardines, then it's not surprising to see improvements. But it doesn't show that sardines/fish are the only way to get those benefits or that adding sardines/fish to a diet that isn't deficient in those nutrients would have any benefit. The fact that Inuit and Saami people have been able to survive on primarily meat diets only demonstrates that it's possible to survive on those diets, not that they are ideal in any way or better than any other diet.
    - 5y ago

nabla9 5y ago

>but their effect is usually caused by the synergy that exists between them It's simple result from the fact that least available essential nutrient is the most important for health outcomes. If you have a rain barrel full of holes, only fixing the lowest hole changes the water level. Fixing all other holes starts to have an effect after you have fixed the lowest one.

elric 5y ago

> Nutrients found in high quantities in sardines - such as taurine, omega 3, calcium and vitamin D Surely this applies to any kind of fatty fish?

podgaj 5y ago
Mostly white fish and cold water fish.
chadcmulligan 5y ago
Probably, but sardines are way cheaper and a lot easier to store. Also they're at the bottom of the food chain and so less heavy metals, and there are a lot more of them in the ocean and are in abundance. I've been a long time sardine advocate for a fatty fish instead of tuna or salmon, nice to see I have some reasons now to support it.

otabdeveloper4 5y ago

Fun fact: everyone who ate cabbage eventually died. Take care.

raspasov 5y ago
Appreciate the humor, but perhaps Urban Dictionary is a better venue for such a contribution.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
oddmiral 5y ago
Correlation is not causation. Ice cream vs homicides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQfacqVvOEM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQfacqVvOEM
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

roland35 5y ago

My uncle used to come over and visit my family. He would play chess on our laptop (wasn't tech savvy but was amazing at chess) with a stack of sardines and a gallon of water. He'd then comment "haha your dog loves me! I wonder why?" as he tosses our dog another sardine. He was a funny and strange guy, but he loved those sardines! He did tell me back in the 90s that processed carbohydrates were really bad for you, so I think he was ahead of the curve!

pimlottc 5y ago
Did the sardines ever win?
djmips 5y ago
So he lived to a ripe old age?

podgaj 5y ago

I see it now, everyone going to their local mega grocery buying sardines packed in sunflower oil, Totally abolishing any of the positive effects of omega-3.

raspasov 5y ago
Yes... That's one of the things that concerns me also me about canned sardines. Even if it says "olive oil" I have a feeling that it's a pretty low quality one in most cases and definitely not EVOO (extra virgin olive oil) which is the good stuff. Looking for any specific recommendations for brands, websites etc.
shock 5y ago
Why is sunflower oil unhealthy?
- throwamon 5y ago
  I don't think that's what they meant exactly, but rather that the amounts of omega-3 and 6 you consume should be in a specific ratio (or rather within a range of ratios), and the ratio in canned sardines is tilted towards the unhealthy side. There are other pairs of nutrients that follow this pattern as well. I highly recommend reading about them on Examine.com, but I suppose even Healthline will do.
- mycologos 5y ago
  I think they're referring to sunflower oil's absence of Omega-3s. Per Wikipedia [1]: > The ratios of omega−6 to omega−3 fatty acids in some common vegetable oils are: canola 2:1, hemp 2–3:1, soybean 7:1, olive 3–13:1, sunflower, flax 1:3, cottonseed (almost no omega−3), peanut (no omega−3), grapeseed oil and corn oil 46:1. My understanding is that there's some Omega-6:Omega-3 ratio to shoot for, and most western diets are far more biased toward Omega-6, so adding some Omega-3 (sardines) along with a bunch of Omega-6 and no Omega-3 (sunflower oil) would actually work against that goal. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#Plant_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#Plant_sourc...
- podgaj 5y ago

CyanDeparture 5y ago

If anyone is wondering how to eat sardines, open a tin (I like the tins with them in tomato sauce) and just mash them onto some toast. No need for butter. It is a glorious lunch.

fctorial 5y ago
What about parasites?
- mycologos 5y ago
  ... what about them? Canned sardines are cooked?
- crispyambulance 5y ago
  canned sardines are already cooked!
  - fctorial 5y ago
    Steam cooked. Parasites (especially their eggs) are very resilient. Meat that isn't fried or pressure cooked is not safe to eat.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
      If a person were concerned, where would they find more information about this?
    - mycologos 5y ago
      > very resilient Aren't canned fish heated to 100C+ and then sealed in an anaerobic environment? What parasite can survive this?

Havoc 5y ago

Don't like boney fish. Salmon on the other hand is nice...but comes with other concerns (environmental, heavy metals etc). Is there something in between?

crispyambulance 5y ago
FWIW, It's OK to eat the bones in canned sardines.
- exhilaration 5y ago
  The bones in canned sardines are actually very good for you, that's where all the calcium is.
mycologos 5y ago
Some canned sardines are already de-boned, and for most bone-in canned sardines, you can just halve each one length-wise and pull out the spine in one piece. The bones are also totally edible themselves, albeit off-puttingly crunchy to some people.
szundi 5y ago
Domesticated salmon is not so healthy anyway, Omega-3 is coming from ocean algae. Not that Omega-3 is reproducibly shown to be healthy.
ucha 5y ago
Sardine or mackerel balls. Just remove the spine add an egg, some lemon juice and spices and boom, no bones and still delicious.
- pinko 5y ago
  Thank you for this idea!
exhilaration 5y ago
If you're looking for a specific type of salmon my understanding is that wild Alaskan salmon has very low levels of mercury and the fisheries are healthy. I'm not sure where you are but it's widely available in the United States.

henearkr 5y ago

I don't understand their conclusion that no supplement can replace the sardine. They indicate that it's probably the combination of DHA, vitamin D, and calcium, that is good, so just make a supplement containing this combination? And if there are missing ingredients to the magic of sardine, just add them too? I don't see what's impossible, except that they want to support their country's fishing industry.

cortic 5y ago

>The fact that foods such as sardines - which are rich in taurine, omega 3, calcium and vitamin D - have a clear protective effect against the onset of diabetes does not mean that taking these supplements in isolation will have the same effect. The only way i can understand this statement it that Rizzolo doubts that anything in the sardines are actually affecting type 2 diabetes. So perhaps the oily taste is suppressing apatite for 'sweet' and decreasing the patients sugar intake (decreasing them cheating on their diet). Anyway a 152 patients study is not very conclusive, in larger studies there may not be any effect there at all.

jdeibele 5y ago
You might be right but what I've read of nutrition is that taking supplements is thought to be quite different than eating a whole food. Taking Vitamin C tablets is different than eating an orange because of all the other things that are in an orange. Or what's in spinach or kale or blueberries or sardines. I think that's the point she's making. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/supplements/art-20044894 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...

szundi 5y ago

I hate the fact that the text compares percentage decrease of a group of “high risk” with a group of “very high risk” that makes the whole story ambiguous. I hate this, and always think how these clever people make these kind of mistakes writing result texts. Or do they?

hourislate 5y ago

I have eaten 1 tin of Sardines everyday as my first meal for over 6 months. It takes the guess the work out of what to eat and the nutrition is off the charts, it basically replaces a handful of supplements. I've been using cronometer to track my diet and between the Sardines, a huge salad and a hunk of steak or liver, I only ever take the odd Magnesium supplement. Totally eliminated my need to buy expensive supplements. As it turns out, I find that 1500-1800 Kcal is more than enough everyday to leave me feeling stuffed and content and the Sardines alone keep me satiated for hours, what a superfood. Today's the last day to save $3 on a 6 pack of Sardines at Costco, I've bought about 6 cases over the last few weeks (180 + cans) to carry me for the next 6 months. Anyone who wants to lose weight and get healthy, this is the food that will make a huge difference.

hirundo 5y ago

> but only the intervention group added 200 grams of sardines to their diet every week (two cans of sardines in olive oil) So they significantly changed the macro nutrient ratios of the intervention group, along with the addition of sardines. I would like to see an intervention versus a control group with matched macros, to see if the effect is due to more sardines, or to more fat and protein and fewer carbohydrates.

jancsika 5y ago

Another plus is that you can pretend that sardines are regular-sized fish and that you are a giant who is eating them whole.

inopinatus 5y ago
You say that, but this article is going to be a shot in the fin for Big Sardine.
tailspin2019 5y ago
I thought it was just me that did that. On a more serious note, I just tried this excellent sardines recipe this week; Fisherman's Eggs [0]. Great for a high protein breakfast... [0] https://www.thesophisticatedcaveman.com/fishermans-eggs/ https://www.thesophisticatedcaveman.com/fishermans-eggs/
- jancsika 5y ago
  Interesting, though I'd have to fry them up whole there. Otherwise the bones would get chopped up, suspending the disbelief and returning me to mere mortal size. (In that case they'd probably taste like small pieces of salmon bones instead of the entire skeleton of a big fish.)
  - tailspin2019 5y ago
    Hmmm yes I do see your point. Would it perhaps help to look backwards through a pair of binoculars while eating, so as to give the impression that the dish and its fishy contents are still small, thus maintaining the "giant" illusion? This could be further aided by using a somewhat oversized plate. Or perhaps use some particularly small eggs? (I think you'd be looking for some "Pullet eggs" in this case)
    - jancsika 5y ago
      Once the "wholeness" of the fish is gone, the jig is up. Brain: This is an entire fish. Brain: The body is too small for me to pull off regular bites with my hands. Brain: I must be a giant. Chawmp

bayesian_horse 5y ago

What will cure/prevent type 2 diabetes is a low-carb, high-fat diet. Sardines are a low-carb, high-fat food. Eating them replaces a big load of the carbs people usually consume, and just like that they reduce the amount of insulin they have to produce, reducing their insulin resistance and so on. Omega-3 fatty acids are just a slight benefit, probably, and not so much for the diabetes. But "Just eat a can of sardines every now and then" is just a lucky guess. There are a lot of additional, more effective ways to reduce insulin sensitivity.

snarf21 5y ago
Yeah, eating noting but sardines pizza isn't going to end well.
- tartoran 5y ago
  Never heard of sardines pizza, is it really a thing?
  - NautilusWave 5y ago
    I remember cartoons/sitcoms in the 90's using sardines as a gross pizza topping, usually to highlight the quirkiness of a single character.
    - joe_guy 5y ago
      Those were anchovies. Anchovies are generally prepared salt packed and filleted. So they're thinn and salty. Very good for pizza. Sardines in the other hand are served headless but otherwise whole, they're very meaty and would be weird and mooshy on pizza.
      - brutal_chaos_ 5y ago
        Typically anchovies yes, but sardines are also an "icky" topping.

biswaroop 5y ago

Fun fact about sardines: they used to be super popular in the US, until they were massively overfished on the west coast (Cannery Row is the classic example). They were gradually replaced over the 80s with milder fishes like tuna and tilapia.

mvidal01 5y ago

Unfortunatly sardines are high in purines so I get sometimes get gout when eating them.