14 ms·

A practical guide to reducing loneliness

239 points by bhalina 5y ago

cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
Sorry but I find this list terrible - why is this on HN? This is written from such a privileged place and doesn't even consider the pandemic, let alone disability/economic factors that make this list unfeasible...It bugs me in the same way people push McMindfulness and yoga as some crappy solution to everything and put the onus/blame on people who are suffering (loneliness is a serious mortality risk, for real) rather than cast light on societal issues and barriers that are contributing to this problem "Put Down Your Damn Phone" We're in a pandemic...There are a lot of reasons to stay inside right and be more cautious. While you can go to the park or read a book or whatever. I would argue that using your phone to socialize is now more realistic than ever, with the caveats with unhealthy social media and so on. It's not realistic that you're going to have some meet cute on the subway and the grocery store right now, people have pods and are serious about them, and you're just going to be setting yourself up. Honestly, I am a lot more comfortable controlling my social interactions due to being part of a marginalized group so being online for social stuff is a no brainer for me. If you haven't had to deal with discrimination/harassment maybe you don't think of this. The time could be spent doing healthy socializing online. "Stop Ordering Stuff Off Amazon" Point taken in theory, but why would I walk down to the local Safeway, Costco, or whatever, and buy the same junk using the same supply chains as Amazon at a markup that I can't afford? I like to support local businesses and I'll give them credit for that, but sometimes you need some random kitchen appliance and you can't get that from a Fair Trade craft company! I really don't see any difference between "supporting Amazon" and "supporting Generic Mega Grocery Corp" for every day things that I need to get. Couple this with the fact that stores never seem to have what I need and I buy it online anyway. And again, consider the classism inherent in this..None of us want to use the supply chain but it's unreasonable assume people in poverty shouldn't use Amazon to save money to improve their quality of life. "Say Yes to Everything You Are Invited To (and Even Some Things You Aren’t)" Hmm, what about learning about yourself and your boundaries/limits and sticking to them regardless of peer pressure? A lot of people suffer from social anxiety and other behavioral health conditions that make this such a toxic comment. I struggled with this kind of pressure for years and only now am I going in the opposite direction and learning to say NO, that's NOT for me, and I'm NOT comfortable in that scenario. Again I'm female so maybe that's another factor. "Join a Club and Go a Minimum of 3 Times" There is some merit as with the last point in gently pushing boundaries and seeing things out but sorry, no. If I don't feel safe at this club or I'm harassed I'm not going to go a "minimum of 3 times". "Say Hello to Your Neighbors" I don't take a ton of issue with this but if I have nothing in common with said neighbors this is a recipe for awkward one sided relationships I'd rather avoid. Going to point out again that "yay community" doesn't work for marginalized people. In this study he cited I wonder if that was a homogeneous area in terms of diversity..Do you really think the only gay guy in a small, conservative town is going to feel less lonely by knowing 6 of his neighbors? For sure this isn't the case all the time but don't throw around statistics like this as if it's going to be a cure all for a particular situation. "Make Small Talk in Public" Not everyone can do this due to various disabilities, and some people hate small talk. It's ok to work on this if you want to within reason but I'm not going to feel any less lonely talking about baseball or the weather with my 6 neighbors, in fact probably the opposite. "Play (or Learn) a Sport" As a woman I don't often feel safe/comfortable showing my body in public doing sports or going to gyms. If you're trans for example, this may be super dangerous depending on the gym/area. A year ago here in Seattle a group of POC got arrested/detained for an "Antifa Soccer game" in a public park at 4pm. And again, pandemic. I also hate sports in general and I think this should be widened to "find a physical activity you enjoy". This can be yoga at home, Wii Fit, bouncing on a trampoline, using a standing bicycle while coding, or whatever. "Don’t Flake on Plans — Especially with Yourself" Agree with this in theory but "When you cancel plans, you’re not letting others down; you’re letting yourself down." really? For people with chronic illness, children, caregivers, etc, things come up, and you can be branded as toxic or flakey due to life circumstances you can't change. I agree for sure on the point of accountability but this borders on beating yourself up for this which I already have a problem with so no thanks. "Reach Out to Friends of Friends" The introvert's nightmare. Now you have some issue with the friend of the friend, and you lose the original friend. Both me and another introvert I know prefer to keep our friend groups really segmented for this reason. We both are on the autism spectrum as well and it's just too much to deal with that additional dynamic. Works in some cases but not all. Will give credit for someone being potentially "vetted" by someone you trust. "The Long Con: Deepen Existing Interests" Only thing I agree with whole heatedly" :D "Awkwardness Is Endearing; Vulnerability Is Cool" laughs in neruodivergent Yeah dude no, try having C-PTSD over how people treat you for your "endearing vulnerabilities". Just an intersectional take on this article. One size really doesn't fit all and it's negligent to tout this as some lifehack when a lot of these things are unreasonable or even dangerous for certain populations. I understand this was done to help but I would add caveats and explanations and alternatives to these rather than some kind of prescriptive one size fits all list. Remember that loneliness isn't not having people around. It's not having people around who accept you and understand you and that's the trauma the US is working through today. It is shocking how many people, even people who aren't from traditionally marginalized groups, don't have the bare minimum when it comes to their social support and their history of social support has been neglectful or even abusive. There is no quick fix for the loneliness we are suffering as a nation with all the tech stuff pushing us to these unhealthy extremes even more. We are dealing with such a difficult and unprecedented time. The solution is not to invalidate people's real lived experiences of ostracization, discrimination, harassment and so forth by telling them to go kick the ole pigskin around. You may not ever really fully comprehend what it's like, the real danger many people risk when going out into the community, sexual assault, harassment by law enforcement, and so forth, if you're a white dude in the Valley, and these solutions may seem reasonable if looked at only from that tiny lens. That's not to say people should isolate themselves to the point where it's unhealthy but I do find a lot of rhetoric like "GET OUT THERE CHAMP LOL UR NOT THAT AWKWARD" honestly quite marginalizing and harmful. The community really isn't and hasn't been the solution to the issues marginalized people experience. We need to take additional reasonable measures in some cases to protect ourselves because the community just isn't there yet, and that needs to be understood and validated. Being heard, and validated, is how we heal...Not band aid platitudes like this.
legerdemain 5y ago
This advice is generic and sanctimonious. Spending time on social media on your phone leads nowhere, but so does shallow socializing in person. Thanks to the free market, we now also have a wealth of resources to fritter away time "socially." I spent two years in a shared house saying yes to all the board game nights. There are board game groups on Meetup and board game groups at startups. Board game nights are a dead end. They offer a structured and safe way to spend time around others without needing to open up or be vulnerable. You can spend years playing board games with someone and have no idea where you stand with them. (Believe me, I've done it!) You know how to really build a close-knit circle fast? Join a church. Yes, there's a cost. You have to accept Jesus and let him dominate your day-to-day thoughts, judgments, and sensibilities. Jesus will dictate who you feel good hanging out with and what you should and shouldn't do, how you should think and what you should say. And people will reach out to you, and open themselves up, and be intimate and vulnerable, and you will grow into a community of mutual support together in the church. Or go to college, if you haven't yet. Live a student's meager life in a tiny room. Share a shitty house with five roommates. Breathe the same air. Depend on each other. Get a job as a retail slave or fast food employee with other people your age. Share the constant anxiety of running out of money for the basics of life. Join the armed forces. Live in an artists' commune. Get involved with polyamory. But for the love of god, don't believe that you can eat-pray-love your way to a rich social life by putting down your phone and smiling at people more in the supermarket checkout line.
napolux 5y ago
If you are, like me, tired of Medium... https://archive.is/wip/UJQq2 https://archive.is/wip/UJQq2
- 542458 5y ago
  Dumb question, what’s wrong with Medium (as a platform)? Also that link doesn’t work for me - server not found.
  - KingOfSheepX 5y ago
    Paywall for mostly unpaid or underpaid content creators
    - napolux 5y ago
      this.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - mumblemumble 5y ago
      In Medium's defense, the idea is that, if you want to go ad-free while still being able to pay content creators anything at all, you need some other revenue source, and, as far as I can tell, the only other option that's seen any success at scale is paywalls. There's a pretty direct in, in one breath, complaining about paying for authors' work, and also complaining that authors don't get paid enough for their work. (Before someone mentions Patreon or Tippee - both of those are platforms for erecting paywalls.)
      - Xenoamorphous 5y ago
        When there’s a link to an ad-funded site, HN complains. When it’s to a paywalled site, HN complains.
thrownawatsfdf 5y ago
> Put Down Your Damn Phone > Stop Ordering Stuff Off Amazon ok boomer tier advice edit: GALATIANS 4:16
- coldtea 5y ago
  Yeah, because ordering off Amazon and being hooked to your phone is so modern and 2021...
  - antibuddy 5y ago
    I mean I kind of understand what he is saying (altho in an inappropriate way). It is likely for your own good to minimize screentime. However most people are still using their phone when bored. So you're either annoying people "glued to their screen" or you are the only one without doing it which yields you not much. It's a bit boring, but I think both points are valid. If you are not looking up you probably miss the opportunity, but opportunities are still very slim.
hotdogaaron 5y ago
Paywall
- napolux 5y ago
  https://archive.is/UJQq2 https://archive.is/UJQq2
- ahxul 5y ago
  You can use medium hacked chrome extension to bypass the paywall.
  - baxuz 5y ago
    Or just block cookies on the domain itself. Then again, there are a lot of Medium blogs on other domains.
FinanceAnon 5y ago
Very superficial advice. I don't see how small-talk with strangers can fix loneliness long term.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  That's how virtually every friendship starts, isn't it?
  - FinanceAnon 5y ago
    I think loneliness is something that goes deeper than how many friends you have. You can be surrounded with people and still feel lonely.
    - hattmall 5y ago
      I think that's depression. I'm guessing these tips are more for the technically lonely, which is probably a much higher number in the past due to WFH and quarantines.
      - erhk 5y ago
        It's also having shallow friendships
      - conistonwater 5y ago
        That's not true at all. Also, historically, there's been a trend of attributing negative things to depression. I've read John Cacioppo's work (here's an interview: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/how-loneliness-begets-loneliness/521841/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/how-lonel...), and as far as I know it's both scientifically well-founded and at least somewhat actionable.
        throwawayboise 5y ago
        I would agree about attributing too much to depression. I'm not saying depression isn't real, but there's a motivator to attribute things to it because it creates more customers for pills that will allegedly fix it.
deleted 5y ago
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helios_invictus 5y ago
I would also like to add, to be positive, and affirming. Tell other that you enjoyed the time you spent with them. Cheer them on in activities, even strangers!
- ahnberg 5y ago
  Kindness goes the longest way, for sure!
csdtx 5y ago
Loneliness comes from a lack of community and people who you can trust. You will not build a community and find people who you can trust through small talk and involving yourself in groups that are based on transient interests that can be changed in an instant. There is a reason gangs and groups have some sort of hazing and acceptance ceremony.
- s0rce 5y ago
  I agree, I have never made a long standing connection with someone I've met while going to a store in a city. I've gotten to know store owners for stores I've frequented over years but not just randomly running into customers. It seems like most cities I've lived in you don't really just start talking to people randomly, maybe I'm just not very friendly but it seems like a survival instinct to avoid crazy folks.
  - wincy 5y ago
    My wife is from New York and has this instinct you speak of. She gets mad when I talk to bank tellers. I grew up in the Midwest and chat with everyone. It makes sense too, because even in a city of a million, very often I’ll start chatting with someone and realize that we know someone in common. Happens all the time. My wife said such a thing would NEVER happen in New York, there’s just too many people.
    - hombre_fatal 5y ago
      Most people here could benefit from talking to everyone and honing that skill, especially single guys, instead of just lambasting it as “small talk”. When you don’t talk to people, you throw out a great amount of serendipity in life. e.g. Most of my friends right now and women I’ve dated I’ve met in lines at the coffee shop, parking my rental bike at the dock, and other unlikely places. I wasn’t always that person so I empathize with the knee jerk kick against the idea, but it’s time to evolve, guys.
      - PrimalDual 5y ago
randomopining 5y ago
1. Get hobbies 2. Meet people with the same hobbies 3. Talk and build relationships
neonate 5y ago
https://archive.md/UJQq2 https://archive.md/UJQq2
mattgreenrocks 5y ago
Semi-related: I suspect a big draw of social media is that it resembles actual human communication while also conferring a lot more control to all parties. Vulnerability is not required. Communication is stripped of almost all of its context, and is often asynchronous. There is little expectation of any sort of real commitment. People are easily muted, unfollowed, and blocked. In sanitizing away the messiness of real relationships, we’re left with an empty shell that puts us more in control and yet also more lonely. It would seem that we cannot simply pick and choose which aspects of relationships we want, nor can we relate to others at the scale that social media enables us to.
- danenania 5y ago
  I think of social media as "filler". It's similar to how empty calories trick our bodies into feeling full despite not providing any real nutrition.
  - read_if_gay_ 5y ago
    Twitch is similar I find. It’s basically substitute human interaction. But I don’t think it’s all “empty calories” - it does really help against loneliness in my experience. Of course the real thing is going to be better for you, but obviously that’s not always available.
  - munificent 5y ago
    Porn : Sex :: Social media : Community A fraction of the risk for an even smaller fraction of the reward.
    - ReactiveJelly 5y ago
      You can see porn as a shitty alternative to sex, or as a great visual aid to masturbating. Both are technically true. Also you can watch porn while having sex, in theory.
- bhalina 5y ago
  100% agree on lack of vulnerability. I am hoping that COVID-19 showed us that a social life on social media isn't a social life at all.
guerrilla 5y ago
This is pretty superficial and obvious stuff... and no mention of empathy and vulnerability.
Tade0 5y ago
I feel like there should be separate sets of advice for people in their 20s, 30s, 40s etc. Anyway, I've met quite a few very lonely people (seems contradictory, but loneliness doesn't necessarily mean someone isn't going out at all) and a the few things that did work for them - at least temporarily - were: -Getting a roommate, or moving to a shared apartment. There's nothing weird about doing this in your 30s anymore - housing hasn't been affordable for a while now. Doesn't mean they'll be your friends, but at least your social skills won't deteriorate any further. -Volunteering. Be it an animal shelter or an open kitchen for the less fortunate. It's so much easier to connect with people if you have a common goal and there's always work to do at such places. -Gaming - controversial, but certain games lend themselves to creating a community.
- em-bee 5y ago
  on gaming: one of the local MUDs where i played has frequent real-life gettogethers for an afternoon, dinner of even out of the city for a weekend. another gaming related activity is boardgames. check if your city has a boardgame meetup. if not, start one. also hobbies
arkaic 5y ago
"Stop Ordering Stuff Off Amazon" I do this a lot: going grocery shopping almost every day even for one or two items during periods when I'm basically homebound. Just the act of being around other people helps tremendously my mood by the time I get back home.
Zvez 5y ago
tldr if you need social interaction you need to go out and do social interactions Anyway for me the only thing that sort of works is group sport sessions. I swim and go to group trainings twice a week. It doesn't get me any real friends, but I get people to talk to, we have chat and everything. This is the only time I don't feel lonely atm. Going out to some advernture-like activities will be even better - camping, biking, trail walking. But you need to find group of people to go out with. It is easier to do if you work in some big company - there probably already some groups like this. I did positive experience with coworkers, but sadly it didn't last.
ahnberg 5y ago
A lot of my meaningful contacts and relationship building has been because I didn't put down the phone. Being an introvert in a crazy extrovert world is insanely draining. Social media, digital communication and so forth has surely saved a huge part of my life. It has opened doors, allowed me to connect and establish friendships with people all over the world. It allows me to keep in touch with remote friends and close ones alike. All in all summing up to the feeling that I am less lonely. Excluding Corona time this also means that I have people to actually meet when I want to go out. So it is not a replacement for "real life" meeting with people. It is an augmentation. Each to their own; but I personally am somewhat tired of the constant norm of bashing on "digital" and phone and so forth.
throwaway823882 5y ago
> A Practical Guide to Reducing Loneliness Right Now: 11 awkward, life-affirming ways to connect with others. The most practical way to reduce loneliness is not to connect with others. Become content living alone. Later you can connect to people when it's not a need. But you should understand what's driving the need, and come up with coping mechanisms. For example, say you really want to show someone a cool picture you just took. Would you still take it if you weren't going to show it to anyone else? If yes, then consider when you will look at it again, tuck it away, and go on with your day. If no, then don't take it. Don't let your needs control how you live your life, or your emotions.
stakkur 5y ago
Here's my practical, psychology-based guide to reducing loneliness: 1. Find ways to help other people. 2. Help them. 3. Do it again. Reducing loneliness is not about 'having friends', it's about making efforts to participate in the larger group--and the primary way to begin doing that is by helping other people. To simplify: step outside yourself to be less by yourself.
- watwut 5y ago
  You can be constantly helping and lonely at the same time. Plenty of caregivers and volunteers ends up like that.
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poletopole 5y ago
I visit the elderly in a local old folks home where my grandma lived and listen to their stories each month. At least I'll be popular with the ladies when it's my turn to go.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
This is the typical advice by extroverts: “just go out and have fun . If I can do it why can’t you do it?”. Most lonely people know already what to do in theory but for whatever reason they can’t pull it off. That’s certainly the story of my life. I know what I should do but I can’t execute it correctly. I mess up small talk all the time and for some reason never get better. It seems some of my social circuits haven’t been wired correctly and are introducing errors. Advice giving is a dangerous thing if you haven’t experienced the problem. I don’t have eating problems so for me it’s really easy not to eat that donut or the bucket of ice cream but I have learned and accepted that for some overweight people it’s an almost insurmountable problem. I can’t really relate but I have learned enough over the years to stay away from giving ignorant or condescending advice.
- schwartzworld 5y ago
  You've pointed out the irony: it's not that easy and yet it is. I'd be skinnier if I skipped dessert more often, and while it isn't that simple, skipping dessert is the only sure way to get skinnier. There is no simpler or more effective measure I could take.
  - spaetzleesser 5y ago
    Very true. Simple things can be extremely hard or impossible.
- culopatin 5y ago
  I don’t think you read the post very well or you’re picking on things just to say “No, I’m an introvert and so I can’t and that’s the end of that”. It doesn’t say just go out and do things. It says “whenever you do these things, just do this instead”. And it shows some clear suggestions to try. Put down phone and say yes to any opportunity are what stick out for me. None of them are very risky. Maybe you won’t talk to your neighbors, but you’ll have to want it to change it, it won’t come to you. And so it gives some suggestions of things that are potentially available to you. My life changed quite a bit after I watched Yes Man and decided to give it a try. It made me realize how much I would said no to things for reasons that were 100% made of negative assumptions. It was all in my head. I didn’t go as far as Jim Carey but I started saying yes or asking if I could join to things I would normally decline and just get FOMO at home. It’s a very introvert lonely person thing to say “I tried and I suck therefore I can’t” and now I answer to that “Can’t never could”. And I feel like I can say that because I was one of them. Yes I sucked too, I still think I’m not good at small talk, so what? I stay away from my phone in social gatherings and just observe, at some point just by being engaged you’ll have something to say. Some people might even like you because you’re not “the annoying one who wants to hear themselves talk”. All it takes is not “go out and do things” it takes saying yes and not sheltering yourself, it takes not running away from the opportunity. It all cascades after. It’s like compound interest if socialization. Once you open yourself to one thing and keep investing in that, lots of gatherings open. Right now I feel like I need to decline some because I get a bit socially exhausted at times, but 6 years ago i would get depressed on the weekends because I wanted to go do something and had no one to do it with.
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hardwaregeek 5y ago
An important realization to have is that all of the fun events in your life, all of the dinner parties and hikes and trivia nights, all of them had to be planned by somebody. And at some point, you need to start planning your own events. Yes, planning events sucks. You need to corral people, sync up schedules, negotiate different likes/dislikes. But you gotta do it if you want to see people. I have friends who don't plan events and don't actively reach out. Frankly I'm a lot less close with them because to see them, I have to actively reach out and remember to invite them. Learning to meet new people is a great skill too because it means you're not stuck with friends who you don't like. I used to be friends with people who I didn't particularly like. But I was afraid to lose them because I didn't have a lot of friends. When you learn to make friends, you realize that it's not worth keeping people around whose presence you don't enjoy. You can cut them off and make new friends.
- blagie 5y ago
  And I get miserable at dinner parties. What I want is a platform where I can randomly chat with people who have common interests. Think Omegle, but without 95% of the userbase being teenage boys who, for some reason, think it's a good way to meet women and get laid. Think of hallways conversations at conferences. I like conferences -- including well-run virtual ones -- and I'd like to be able to drop in on them anytime. I like my coworkers, including former ones. Think of the watercooler at work. When I want to chill, I sign on, and I get connected to a random someone, but a random someone who has something interesting to talk about. I wouldn't even mind being able to designate a few people I want to hook up with, in the intellectual sense. If we happen to sign on around the same time, we'll chat. I'd build it, but I'm busy.
  - monort 5y ago
    I want this too! How will this service match you with interesting people? Something like okcupid compatibility algorithm with less focus on relationship?
    - blagie 5y ago
      I don't think it's be rocket science. I'd put in my interests. I might even put in where I work, what conferences I go to, and what hobbies I have. If there were a way to do so privately, I'd love if it worked from my web browsing, Youtube, etc. history as well -- things I did recently. If I just read an awesome article about the war between Azerbaijan an Armenia we all missed among COVID19, of if I just spent a few hours playing with Webcomponents, I wouldn't mind chatting with someone who did the same. I think a service like this would quickly learn how to peer people for fruitful conversations. A key would be to keep this multidimensional; if you line up 65% with software engineers, and 55% with cricket players, you should get peered with both (or have a choice). A lot of the recommender systems seem to bucket me in just one place. I explicitly want zero focus on relationships. This should not be a dating service. The instant anything like that shows up, things go south very quickly. The standards should be the same as e.g. in your work environment.
atum47 5y ago
At a very young age I realized waking makes me happy. I know a lot of other exercises that burns fat more efficient, so I spent a lot of time trying to come up with something that justify a 2 hours walk. Eventually I stop trying to justify it. I just go for a walk listening to music. It may not be the best exercise for the body, but it does wonders for the mind.
whall6 5y ago
> if online friendships were working for you, would you be reading this article? Ah man got me there
plandis 5y ago
Maybe I’m crazy but if you’re really lonely I don’t know how planning an event nobody will show up to because you have nobody to invite helps. That just seems like bad advice. Or even if you do have people to invite if you’re not super close it’s likely nobody will show up, or at least that’s been my experience.
tremoloser 5y ago
I feel like a lot of the advice on overcoming loneliness puts all of the onus on the individual to make friends through talking to people and joining groups etc. and yes, obviously you won't overcome loneliness through inaction, but I really wish there was more talk about how social structures are a major component to the ease with which we make friends, and how we could potentially redesign social structures to facilitate that. for instance, the reason why it's easier to make friends in college is literally because college is set up for lots of serendipity and rubbing elbows in ways that post-college isn't. are there fun experiments we could try in order to design for organic interaction outside of an institution like a school or workplace? I've thought a little bit about this but it would be fun to have larger-scale convos about it.
nicbou 5y ago
I've been there. I have moved cities a few times, and also spent long periods on the road. I'm also rather introverted, and at times I'm not sure if I'd even call it social anxiety. Nonetheless, I made it work. Here are some random, actually usable tips: * Put an activity between you and strangers. It's easier to meet people when there's something to bind you together and fill the awkward silences. I've done a few: urban exploration, board games, bicycle rides, sports, classes etc. They all work fine. * There are many networks that help you socialise: erasmus activities, hobby clubs, meetups, etc. They work well, especially if you are an active participant in them. * Look for informal groups. I'm part of a few telegram groups centred around organizing activities. I found most of them through my local subreddit. They're easier to participate in than most clubs. * Platonic relationships can also falter due to lack chemistry. You didn't say anything wrong; it's just a mismatch. * It takes time. You'll go through a lot of false starts before you have a solid network of friends. That's true for most expats I have met. * Don't hesitate to invite people for drinks. It's a great way to bridge the gap between acquaintance and friend.

239 points by bhalina 5y ago

Sorry but I find this list terrible - why is this on HN? This is written from such a privileged place and doesn't even consider the pandemic, let alone disability/economic factors that make this list unfeasible...It bugs me in the same way people push McMindfulness and yoga as some crappy solution to everything and put the onus/blame on people who are suffering (loneliness is a serious mortality risk, for real) rather than cast light on societal issues and barriers that are contributing to this problem "Put Down Your Damn Phone" We're in a pandemic...There are a lot of reasons to stay inside right and be more cautious. While you can go to the park or read a book or whatever. I would argue that using your phone to socialize is now more realistic than ever, with the caveats with unhealthy social media and so on. It's not realistic that you're going to have some meet cute on the subway and the grocery store right now, people have pods and are serious about them, and you're just going to be setting yourself up. Honestly, I am a lot more comfortable controlling my social interactions due to being part of a marginalized group so being online for social stuff is a no brainer for me. If you haven't had to deal with discrimination/harassment maybe you don't think of this. The time could be spent doing healthy socializing online. "Stop Ordering Stuff Off Amazon" Point taken in theory, but why would I walk down to the local Safeway, Costco, or whatever, and buy the same junk using the same supply chains as Amazon at a markup that I can't afford? I like to support local businesses and I'll give them credit for that, but sometimes you need some random kitchen appliance and you can't get that from a Fair Trade craft company! I really don't see any difference between "supporting Amazon" and "supporting Generic Mega Grocery Corp" for every day things that I need to get. Couple this with the fact that stores never seem to have what I need and I buy it online anyway. And again, consider the classism inherent in this..None of us want to use the supply chain but it's unreasonable assume people in poverty shouldn't use Amazon to save money to improve their quality of life. "Say Yes to Everything You Are Invited To (and Even Some Things You Aren’t)" Hmm, what about learning about yourself and your boundaries/limits and sticking to them regardless of peer pressure? A lot of people suffer from social anxiety and other behavioral health conditions that make this such a toxic comment. I struggled with this kind of pressure for years and only now am I going in the opposite direction and learning to say NO, that's NOT for me, and I'm NOT comfortable in that scenario. Again I'm female so maybe that's another factor. "Join a Club and Go a Minimum of 3 Times" There is some merit as with the last point in gently pushing boundaries and seeing things out but sorry, no. If I don't feel safe at this club or I'm harassed I'm not going to go a "minimum of 3 times". "Say Hello to Your Neighbors" I don't take a ton of issue with this but if I have nothing in common with said neighbors this is a recipe for awkward one sided relationships I'd rather avoid. Going to point out again that "yay community" doesn't work for marginalized people. In this study he cited I wonder if that was a homogeneous area in terms of diversity..Do you really think the only gay guy in a small, conservative town is going to feel less lonely by knowing 6 of his neighbors? For sure this isn't the case all the time but don't throw around statistics like this as if it's going to be a cure all for a particular situation. "Make Small Talk in Public" Not everyone can do this due to various disabilities, and some people hate small talk. It's ok to work on this if you want to within reason but I'm not going to feel any less lonely talking about baseball or the weather with my 6 neighbors, in fact probably the opposite. "Play (or Learn) a Sport" As a woman I don't often feel safe/comfortable showing my body in public doing sports or going to gyms. If you're trans for example, this may be super dangerous depending on the gym/area. A year ago here in Seattle a group of POC got arrested/detained for an "Antifa Soccer game" in a public park at 4pm. And again, pandemic. I also hate sports in general and I think this should be widened to "find a physical activity you enjoy". This can be yoga at home, Wii Fit, bouncing on a trampoline, using a standing bicycle while coding, or whatever. "Don’t Flake on Plans — Especially with Yourself" Agree with this in theory but "When you cancel plans, you’re not letting others down; you’re letting yourself down." really? For people with chronic illness, children, caregivers, etc, things come up, and you can be branded as toxic or flakey due to life circumstances you can't change. I agree for sure on the point of accountability but this borders on beating yourself up for this which I already have a problem with so no thanks. "Reach Out to Friends of Friends" The introvert's nightmare. Now you have some issue with the friend of the friend, and you lose the original friend. Both me and another introvert I know prefer to keep our friend groups really segmented for this reason. We both are on the autism spectrum as well and it's just too much to deal with that additional dynamic. Works in some cases but not all. Will give credit for someone being potentially "vetted" by someone you trust. "The Long Con: Deepen Existing Interests" Only thing I agree with whole heatedly" :D "Awkwardness Is Endearing; Vulnerability Is Cool" laughs in neruodivergent Yeah dude no, try having C-PTSD over how people treat you for your "endearing vulnerabilities". Just an intersectional take on this article. One size really doesn't fit all and it's negligent to tout this as some lifehack when a lot of these things are unreasonable or even dangerous for certain populations. I understand this was done to help but I would add caveats and explanations and alternatives to these rather than some kind of prescriptive one size fits all list. Remember that loneliness isn't not having people around. It's not having people around who accept you and understand you and that's the trauma the US is working through today. It is shocking how many people, even people who aren't from traditionally marginalized groups, don't have the bare minimum when it comes to their social support and their history of social support has been neglectful or even abusive. There is no quick fix for the loneliness we are suffering as a nation with all the tech stuff pushing us to these unhealthy extremes even more. We are dealing with such a difficult and unprecedented time. The solution is not to invalidate people's real lived experiences of ostracization, discrimination, harassment and so forth by telling them to go kick the ole pigskin around. You may not ever really fully comprehend what it's like, the real danger many people risk when going out into the community, sexual assault, harassment by law enforcement, and so forth, if you're a white dude in the Valley, and these solutions may seem reasonable if looked at only from that tiny lens. That's not to say people should isolate themselves to the point where it's unhealthy but I do find a lot of rhetoric like "GET OUT THERE CHAMP LOL UR NOT THAT AWKWARD" honestly quite marginalizing and harmful. The community really isn't and hasn't been the solution to the issues marginalized people experience. We need to take additional reasonable measures in some cases to protect ourselves because the community just isn't there yet, and that needs to be understood and validated. Being heard, and validated, is how we heal...Not band aid platitudes like this.

legerdemain 5y ago

This advice is generic and sanctimonious. Spending time on social media on your phone leads nowhere, but so does shallow socializing in person. Thanks to the free market, we now also have a wealth of resources to fritter away time "socially." I spent two years in a shared house saying yes to all the board game nights. There are board game groups on Meetup and board game groups at startups. Board game nights are a dead end. They offer a structured and safe way to spend time around others without needing to open up or be vulnerable. You can spend years playing board games with someone and have no idea where you stand with them. (Believe me, I've done it!) You know how to really build a close-knit circle fast? Join a church. Yes, there's a cost. You have to accept Jesus and let him dominate your day-to-day thoughts, judgments, and sensibilities. Jesus will dictate who you feel good hanging out with and what you should and shouldn't do, how you should think and what you should say. And people will reach out to you, and open themselves up, and be intimate and vulnerable, and you will grow into a community of mutual support together in the church. Or go to college, if you haven't yet. Live a student's meager life in a tiny room. Share a shitty house with five roommates. Breathe the same air. Depend on each other. Get a job as a retail slave or fast food employee with other people your age. Share the constant anxiety of running out of money for the basics of life. Join the armed forces. Live in an artists' commune. Get involved with polyamory. But for the love of god, don't believe that you can eat-pray-love your way to a rich social life by putting down your phone and smiling at people more in the supermarket checkout line.

napolux 5y ago

If you are, like me, tired of Medium... https://archive.is/wip/UJQq2 https://archive.is/wip/UJQq2

542458 5y ago
Dumb question, what’s wrong with Medium (as a platform)? Also that link doesn’t work for me - server not found.
- KingOfSheepX 5y ago
  Paywall for mostly unpaid or underpaid content creators
  - napolux 5y ago
    this.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - mumblemumble 5y ago
    In Medium's defense, the idea is that, if you want to go ad-free while still being able to pay content creators anything at all, you need some other revenue source, and, as far as I can tell, the only other option that's seen any success at scale is paywalls. There's a pretty direct in, in one breath, complaining about paying for authors' work, and also complaining that authors don't get paid enough for their work. (Before someone mentions Patreon or Tippee - both of those are platforms for erecting paywalls.)
    - Xenoamorphous 5y ago
      When there’s a link to an ad-funded site, HN complains. When it’s to a paywalled site, HN complains.

thrownawatsfdf 5y ago

> Put Down Your Damn Phone > Stop Ordering Stuff Off Amazon ok boomer tier advice edit: GALATIANS 4:16

coldtea 5y ago
Yeah, because ordering off Amazon and being hooked to your phone is so modern and 2021...
- antibuddy 5y ago
  I mean I kind of understand what he is saying (altho in an inappropriate way). It is likely for your own good to minimize screentime. However most people are still using their phone when bored. So you're either annoying people "glued to their screen" or you are the only one without doing it which yields you not much. It's a bit boring, but I think both points are valid. If you are not looking up you probably miss the opportunity, but opportunities are still very slim.

hotdogaaron 5y ago

Paywall

napolux 5y ago
https://archive.is/UJQq2 https://archive.is/UJQq2
ahxul 5y ago
You can use medium hacked chrome extension to bypass the paywall.
- baxuz 5y ago
  Or just block cookies on the domain itself. Then again, there are a lot of Medium blogs on other domains.

FinanceAnon 5y ago

Very superficial advice. I don't see how small-talk with strangers can fix loneliness long term.

throwawayboise 5y ago
That's how virtually every friendship starts, isn't it?
- FinanceAnon 5y ago
  I think loneliness is something that goes deeper than how many friends you have. You can be surrounded with people and still feel lonely.
  - hattmall 5y ago
    I think that's depression. I'm guessing these tips are more for the technically lonely, which is probably a much higher number in the past due to WFH and quarantines.
    - erhk 5y ago
      It's also having shallow friendships
    - conistonwater 5y ago
      That's not true at all. Also, historically, there's been a trend of attributing negative things to depression. I've read John Cacioppo's work (here's an interview: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/how-loneliness-begets-loneliness/521841/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/how-lonel...), and as far as I know it's both scientifically well-founded and at least somewhat actionable.
      - throwawayboise 5y ago
        I would agree about attributing too much to depression. I'm not saying depression isn't real, but there's a motivator to attribute things to it because it creates more customers for pills that will allegedly fix it.

deleted 5y ago

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helios_invictus 5y ago

I would also like to add, to be positive, and affirming. Tell other that you enjoyed the time you spent with them. Cheer them on in activities, even strangers!

ahnberg 5y ago
Kindness goes the longest way, for sure!

csdtx 5y ago

Loneliness comes from a lack of community and people who you can trust. You will not build a community and find people who you can trust through small talk and involving yourself in groups that are based on transient interests that can be changed in an instant. There is a reason gangs and groups have some sort of hazing and acceptance ceremony.

s0rce 5y ago
I agree, I have never made a long standing connection with someone I've met while going to a store in a city. I've gotten to know store owners for stores I've frequented over years but not just randomly running into customers. It seems like most cities I've lived in you don't really just start talking to people randomly, maybe I'm just not very friendly but it seems like a survival instinct to avoid crazy folks.
- wincy 5y ago
  My wife is from New York and has this instinct you speak of. She gets mad when I talk to bank tellers. I grew up in the Midwest and chat with everyone. It makes sense too, because even in a city of a million, very often I’ll start chatting with someone and realize that we know someone in common. Happens all the time. My wife said such a thing would NEVER happen in New York, there’s just too many people.
  - hombre_fatal 5y ago
    Most people here could benefit from talking to everyone and honing that skill, especially single guys, instead of just lambasting it as “small talk”. When you don’t talk to people, you throw out a great amount of serendipity in life. e.g. Most of my friends right now and women I’ve dated I’ve met in lines at the coffee shop, parking my rental bike at the dock, and other unlikely places. I wasn’t always that person so I empathize with the knee jerk kick against the idea, but it’s time to evolve, guys.
    - PrimalDual 5y ago

randomopining 5y ago

1. Get hobbies 2. Meet people with the same hobbies 3. Talk and build relationships

neonate 5y ago

https://archive.md/UJQq2 https://archive.md/UJQq2

mattgreenrocks 5y ago

Semi-related: I suspect a big draw of social media is that it resembles actual human communication while also conferring a lot more control to all parties. Vulnerability is not required. Communication is stripped of almost all of its context, and is often asynchronous. There is little expectation of any sort of real commitment. People are easily muted, unfollowed, and blocked. In sanitizing away the messiness of real relationships, we’re left with an empty shell that puts us more in control and yet also more lonely. It would seem that we cannot simply pick and choose which aspects of relationships we want, nor can we relate to others at the scale that social media enables us to.

danenania 5y ago
I think of social media as "filler". It's similar to how empty calories trick our bodies into feeling full despite not providing any real nutrition.
- read_if_gay_ 5y ago
  Twitch is similar I find. It’s basically substitute human interaction. But I don’t think it’s all “empty calories” - it does really help against loneliness in my experience. Of course the real thing is going to be better for you, but obviously that’s not always available.
- munificent 5y ago
  Porn : Sex :: Social media : Community A fraction of the risk for an even smaller fraction of the reward.
  - ReactiveJelly 5y ago
    You can see porn as a shitty alternative to sex, or as a great visual aid to masturbating. Both are technically true. Also you can watch porn while having sex, in theory.
bhalina 5y ago
100% agree on lack of vulnerability. I am hoping that COVID-19 showed us that a social life on social media isn't a social life at all.

guerrilla 5y ago

This is pretty superficial and obvious stuff... and no mention of empathy and vulnerability.

Tade0 5y ago

I feel like there should be separate sets of advice for people in their 20s, 30s, 40s etc. Anyway, I've met quite a few very lonely people (seems contradictory, but loneliness doesn't necessarily mean someone isn't going out at all) and a the few things that did work for them - at least temporarily - were: -Getting a roommate, or moving to a shared apartment. There's nothing weird about doing this in your 30s anymore - housing hasn't been affordable for a while now. Doesn't mean they'll be your friends, but at least your social skills won't deteriorate any further. -Volunteering. Be it an animal shelter or an open kitchen for the less fortunate. It's so much easier to connect with people if you have a common goal and there's always work to do at such places. -Gaming - controversial, but certain games lend themselves to creating a community.

em-bee 5y ago
on gaming: one of the local MUDs where i played has frequent real-life gettogethers for an afternoon, dinner of even out of the city for a weekend. another gaming related activity is boardgames. check if your city has a boardgame meetup. if not, start one. also hobbies

arkaic 5y ago

"Stop Ordering Stuff Off Amazon" I do this a lot: going grocery shopping almost every day even for one or two items during periods when I'm basically homebound. Just the act of being around other people helps tremendously my mood by the time I get back home.

Zvez 5y ago

tldr if you need social interaction you need to go out and do social interactions Anyway for me the only thing that sort of works is group sport sessions. I swim and go to group trainings twice a week. It doesn't get me any real friends, but I get people to talk to, we have chat and everything. This is the only time I don't feel lonely atm. Going out to some advernture-like activities will be even better - camping, biking, trail walking. But you need to find group of people to go out with. It is easier to do if you work in some big company - there probably already some groups like this. I did positive experience with coworkers, but sadly it didn't last.

ahnberg 5y ago

A lot of my meaningful contacts and relationship building has been because I didn't put down the phone. Being an introvert in a crazy extrovert world is insanely draining. Social media, digital communication and so forth has surely saved a huge part of my life. It has opened doors, allowed me to connect and establish friendships with people all over the world. It allows me to keep in touch with remote friends and close ones alike. All in all summing up to the feeling that I am less lonely. Excluding Corona time this also means that I have people to actually meet when I want to go out. So it is not a replacement for "real life" meeting with people. It is an augmentation. Each to their own; but I personally am somewhat tired of the constant norm of bashing on "digital" and phone and so forth.

throwaway823882 5y ago

> A Practical Guide to Reducing Loneliness Right Now: 11 awkward, life-affirming ways to connect with others. The most practical way to reduce loneliness is not to connect with others. Become content living alone. Later you can connect to people when it's not a need. But you should understand what's driving the need, and come up with coping mechanisms. For example, say you really want to show someone a cool picture you just took. Would you still take it if you weren't going to show it to anyone else? If yes, then consider when you will look at it again, tuck it away, and go on with your day. If no, then don't take it. Don't let your needs control how you live your life, or your emotions.

stakkur 5y ago

Here's my practical, psychology-based guide to reducing loneliness: 1. Find ways to help other people. 2. Help them. 3. Do it again. Reducing loneliness is not about 'having friends', it's about making efforts to participate in the larger group--and the primary way to begin doing that is by helping other people. To simplify: step outside yourself to be less by yourself.

watwut 5y ago
You can be constantly helping and lonely at the same time. Plenty of caregivers and volunteers ends up like that.

deleted 5y ago

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poletopole 5y ago

I visit the elderly in a local old folks home where my grandma lived and listen to their stories each month. At least I'll be popular with the ladies when it's my turn to go.

spaetzleesser 5y ago

This is the typical advice by extroverts: “just go out and have fun . If I can do it why can’t you do it?”. Most lonely people know already what to do in theory but for whatever reason they can’t pull it off. That’s certainly the story of my life. I know what I should do but I can’t execute it correctly. I mess up small talk all the time and for some reason never get better. It seems some of my social circuits haven’t been wired correctly and are introducing errors. Advice giving is a dangerous thing if you haven’t experienced the problem. I don’t have eating problems so for me it’s really easy not to eat that donut or the bucket of ice cream but I have learned and accepted that for some overweight people it’s an almost insurmountable problem. I can’t really relate but I have learned enough over the years to stay away from giving ignorant or condescending advice.

schwartzworld 5y ago
You've pointed out the irony: it's not that easy and yet it is. I'd be skinnier if I skipped dessert more often, and while it isn't that simple, skipping dessert is the only sure way to get skinnier. There is no simpler or more effective measure I could take.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  Very true. Simple things can be extremely hard or impossible.
culopatin 5y ago
I don’t think you read the post very well or you’re picking on things just to say “No, I’m an introvert and so I can’t and that’s the end of that”. It doesn’t say just go out and do things. It says “whenever you do these things, just do this instead”. And it shows some clear suggestions to try. Put down phone and say yes to any opportunity are what stick out for me. None of them are very risky. Maybe you won’t talk to your neighbors, but you’ll have to want it to change it, it won’t come to you. And so it gives some suggestions of things that are potentially available to you. My life changed quite a bit after I watched Yes Man and decided to give it a try. It made me realize how much I would said no to things for reasons that were 100% made of negative assumptions. It was all in my head. I didn’t go as far as Jim Carey but I started saying yes or asking if I could join to things I would normally decline and just get FOMO at home. It’s a very introvert lonely person thing to say “I tried and I suck therefore I can’t” and now I answer to that “Can’t never could”. And I feel like I can say that because I was one of them. Yes I sucked too, I still think I’m not good at small talk, so what? I stay away from my phone in social gatherings and just observe, at some point just by being engaged you’ll have something to say. Some people might even like you because you’re not “the annoying one who wants to hear themselves talk”. All it takes is not “go out and do things” it takes saying yes and not sheltering yourself, it takes not running away from the opportunity. It all cascades after. It’s like compound interest if socialization. Once you open yourself to one thing and keep investing in that, lots of gatherings open. Right now I feel like I need to decline some because I get a bit socially exhausted at times, but 6 years ago i would get depressed on the weekends because I wanted to go do something and had no one to do it with.

deleted 5y ago

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hardwaregeek 5y ago

An important realization to have is that all of the fun events in your life, all of the dinner parties and hikes and trivia nights, all of them had to be planned by somebody. And at some point, you need to start planning your own events. Yes, planning events sucks. You need to corral people, sync up schedules, negotiate different likes/dislikes. But you gotta do it if you want to see people. I have friends who don't plan events and don't actively reach out. Frankly I'm a lot less close with them because to see them, I have to actively reach out and remember to invite them. Learning to meet new people is a great skill too because it means you're not stuck with friends who you don't like. I used to be friends with people who I didn't particularly like. But I was afraid to lose them because I didn't have a lot of friends. When you learn to make friends, you realize that it's not worth keeping people around whose presence you don't enjoy. You can cut them off and make new friends.

blagie 5y ago
And I get miserable at dinner parties. What I want is a platform where I can randomly chat with people who have common interests. Think Omegle, but without 95% of the userbase being teenage boys who, for some reason, think it's a good way to meet women and get laid. Think of hallways conversations at conferences. I like conferences -- including well-run virtual ones -- and I'd like to be able to drop in on them anytime. I like my coworkers, including former ones. Think of the watercooler at work. When I want to chill, I sign on, and I get connected to a random someone, but a random someone who has something interesting to talk about. I wouldn't even mind being able to designate a few people I want to hook up with, in the intellectual sense. If we happen to sign on around the same time, we'll chat. I'd build it, but I'm busy.
- monort 5y ago
  I want this too! How will this service match you with interesting people? Something like okcupid compatibility algorithm with less focus on relationship?
  - blagie 5y ago
    I don't think it's be rocket science. I'd put in my interests. I might even put in where I work, what conferences I go to, and what hobbies I have. If there were a way to do so privately, I'd love if it worked from my web browsing, Youtube, etc. history as well -- things I did recently. If I just read an awesome article about the war between Azerbaijan an Armenia we all missed among COVID19, of if I just spent a few hours playing with Webcomponents, I wouldn't mind chatting with someone who did the same. I think a service like this would quickly learn how to peer people for fruitful conversations. A key would be to keep this multidimensional; if you line up 65% with software engineers, and 55% with cricket players, you should get peered with both (or have a choice). A lot of the recommender systems seem to bucket me in just one place. I explicitly want zero focus on relationships. This should not be a dating service. The instant anything like that shows up, things go south very quickly. The standards should be the same as e.g. in your work environment.

atum47 5y ago

At a very young age I realized waking makes me happy. I know a lot of other exercises that burns fat more efficient, so I spent a lot of time trying to come up with something that justify a 2 hours walk. Eventually I stop trying to justify it. I just go for a walk listening to music. It may not be the best exercise for the body, but it does wonders for the mind.

whall6 5y ago

> if online friendships were working for you, would you be reading this article? Ah man got me there

plandis 5y ago

Maybe I’m crazy but if you’re really lonely I don’t know how planning an event nobody will show up to because you have nobody to invite helps. That just seems like bad advice. Or even if you do have people to invite if you’re not super close it’s likely nobody will show up, or at least that’s been my experience.

tremoloser 5y ago

I feel like a lot of the advice on overcoming loneliness puts all of the onus on the individual to make friends through talking to people and joining groups etc. and yes, obviously you won't overcome loneliness through inaction, but I really wish there was more talk about how social structures are a major component to the ease with which we make friends, and how we could potentially redesign social structures to facilitate that. for instance, the reason why it's easier to make friends in college is literally because college is set up for lots of serendipity and rubbing elbows in ways that post-college isn't. are there fun experiments we could try in order to design for organic interaction outside of an institution like a school or workplace? I've thought a little bit about this but it would be fun to have larger-scale convos about it.

nicbou 5y ago

I've been there. I have moved cities a few times, and also spent long periods on the road. I'm also rather introverted, and at times I'm not sure if I'd even call it social anxiety. Nonetheless, I made it work. Here are some random, actually usable tips: * Put an activity between you and strangers. It's easier to meet people when there's something to bind you together and fill the awkward silences. I've done a few: urban exploration, board games, bicycle rides, sports, classes etc. They all work fine. * There are many networks that help you socialise: erasmus activities, hobby clubs, meetups, etc. They work well, especially if you are an active participant in them. * Look for informal groups. I'm part of a few telegram groups centred around organizing activities. I found most of them through my local subreddit. They're easier to participate in than most clubs. * Platonic relationships can also falter due to lack chemistry. You didn't say anything wrong; it's just a mismatch. * It takes time. You'll go through a lot of false starts before you have a solid network of friends. That's true for most expats I have met. * Don't hesitate to invite people for drinks. It's a great way to bridge the gap between acquaintance and friend.