17 ms·

NSFW Server Designation

254 points by Mindwipe 6y ago

kactus 6y ago
It sounds like an Apple-directed decision. Is Reddit next?
- Mindwipe 6y ago
  It does. It doesn't fit with the published iOS terms, but as we've seen before, Apple frequently ignores the published App Store terms during approval.
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  Or it’s a “we’re selling to Microsoft” decision. Who knows.
  - jacurtis 6y ago
    Yep I think this is influenced by the potential/likely sale to Microsoft. The timing makes more sense. So to clarify for people who don't use Discord or don't understand the article. What Discord is announcing is that now they will start marking entire SERVERS as NSFW. Keep in mind that server owners have been able to mark CHANNELS within a server as NSFW for a long time now and the iOS app has respected that (when you enter an NSFW channel you must be logged in, not a guest, and must explicitly agree each time you enter). So the blocking of NSFW content in the iOS app has been around for a while. A server that is full of NSFW content would simply have an NSFW block on every channel. This would meet Apple's censorship requirements and Discord has been meeting it for a while. Nothing new here on the Apple front. What is new is that Microsoft is interested in Discord. Recently Discord has made the news for fostering violent or NSFW content (most publicly from Wall Street Bets, which was the first time lots of Wall Street investors had heard of Discord). This change to internally-dictating NSFW servers seems like a way to make Discord more attractive to companies like Microsoft in a sale. Someone like Microsoft doesn't want to be looked at as fostering or promoting bad content, so these protections are ways to heal that image. Again, the change here isn't the introduction of an NSFW blocker. That has been around for a while. The change is that now Discord themselves will flag entire servers as NSFW. Previously it was up to server admins/owners to mark the individual channels on their server as NSFW. Now Discord is taking a lead to control/censor/block this content.
    - Mindwipe 6y ago
      If this was the motivation it seems unlikely that this would only apply to the iOS app and not to the Android app or the web.
- clscott 6y ago
  Reddit clients on iOS already have to filter out NSFW content unless the viewer is logged in and has some settings applied to their account. This is an Apple policy not a Reddit policy https://www.vice.com/en/article/78k8yb/reddit-ios-apps-disappear-nsfw-content https://www.vice.com/en/article/78k8yb/reddit-ios-apps-disap... Edit: added the url I meant to use in the first place
  - pksebben 6y ago
    Android here, that link is busted for me unless I install the app. seems like a reddit problem to me
  - Sandvich 6y ago
    I help make one such Reddit client. There’s an invisible rule that you can’t show users the NSFW toggle or even mention that it’s on the website. We had a toggle that only lets you turn it off if it’s on, and that alone was too much. We also got rejected once because the top post that day had the word “fuck” in it. That was a fun one.
    - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
      Telegram has it that you have to log in to the web one and switch a toggle which will unblock content on the iOS app. Everyone just assumes iOS the app doesn’t allow it so the setting is spread via word of mouth. It’s honestly insane.
- everetm 6y ago
  Reddit already censors all nudity related subreddits from r/all. Historically that was only enforced on r/popular.
simiones 6y ago
Will Apple next require browsers to stop allowing access to pornography?
- beckman466 6y ago
  No we’ll just need a pornography watcher’s license. But don’t worry, it’ll just be in your Apple wallet next to your Apple Card.
  - ismaildonmez 6y ago
    This is similar to what's happening in the UK - https://www.ageid.com/ https://www.ageid.com/
  - shrikant 6y ago
    We've got that in the UK. Most (all?) cell service providers require you to call them up and ask them to unblock your access to "NSFW" sites over mobile data. I recall the Vodafone customer service rep very distinctly asking me, "Sir, are you aware that this will mean you will be able access websites of an adult nature?" and replying with a resounding "Yes, I look forward to it, please go ahead!"
    - beckman466 6y ago
      > websites of an adult nature Overly formal language like this always cracks me up.
      - shrikant 6y ago
        I've no doubt btw that the language and the strident tone used by the rep are meant to nudge (perhaps even shame?) the customer away from enabling this option. Joke's on them!
        beckman466 6y ago
        > perhaps even shame the customer absolutely! i hear you
pjmlp 6y ago
Can we please stop having US morality controlling Internet? What about Discord blocking servers full of war scenes and car chasing with shootings?
- RankingMember 6y ago
  The juxtaposition is really pretty amazing and, ultimately, frustrating to see. You can see the far-reaching impact of the odd "Violence yes! Sex no!" American morality in so many places. One recent example that struck me: GTA Online, a game rife with violence and destruction and even sex (surprisingly for an American game), but the chat has a profanity filter that filters words that are otherwise present in the game's scripted dialog and soundtrack left and right.
  - hprotagonist 6y ago
    >You can see the far-reaching impact of the odd "Violence yes! Sex no!" American morality in so many places. 1978: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNLOXJw0aUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNLOXJw0aUU "better get down off that horse, sherrif: we're fixin' ter fuck yeh, now ... but we're not gonna fuck yeh fast; we're gonna fuck yeh sloooooow"
  - u678u 6y ago
    I couldn't believe the Slayer Repentless video is on Youtube (with an age check) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjb0j9l1sz4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjb0j9l1sz4. But a tiny bit of nipple is forbidden.
  - acta_non_verba 6y ago
    Grand Theft Auto is a British game.
    - adamrezich 6y ago
      with an American publisher
  - gambiting 6y ago
Quarrelsome 6y ago
Is this just for tiddies or is this corporate America trying to install its worldwide swear filter again?
zer0-c00l 6y ago
Do servers get to set their own NSFW flag or is it punitive?
- sodality2 6y ago
  They set it themselves on each channel manually. afaik, no manual or automated NSFW tagging by admins, only server owners.
  - tsukikage 6y ago
    From the link: "Owners of communities designated NSFW by Discord will have to submit an appeal if they wish to have the NSFW server-level designation removed." That doesn't sound like self-designation is the only path to being marked NSFW.
    - chris37879 6y ago
      The way I understood it, you can designate your server, but if the admins come across a server that should be NSFW, they will mark it. I imagine it comes from user reports of content.
  - pteraspidomorph 6y ago
    Sounds like it will be punitive. You need to enable content filter (non negotiable) to enable community features. Content filter does not apply to NSFW channels. What will likely happen is that if content filter keeps "detecting" NSFW content in your channels in which it operates (non-NSFW channels) it will eventually tag the whole server as NSFW.
frob 6y ago
Isn't this exactly what happened to Tumblr back in 2018? It feels a little different since Tumblr is one big unit and Discord has its content shared by servers so it's not like you're immediately able to find NSFW content with Discord without explicitly searching out and finding a server to add. I applaud apple for their work towards making iOS secure, but I still just can't get on board since they can decide at any time I don't have the ability to choose for myself what software I want to run. There's a reason my first iPhone was immediately jail-broken and I left the platform almost 10 years ago.
- kmfrk 6y ago
  Tumblr was supposedly over child porn: https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/19/tumblr-booted-from-app-store-due-to-child-porn/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/19/tumblr-booted-from-app-sto....
- theklr 6y ago
  Not quite. Tumblr just followed rules and applied a weak filter hidden in the settings. Then yahoo bought them and killed it for #ads
  - Miner49er 6y ago
    It was only when Verizon bought Yahoo.
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  Discord is one big unit; its “servers” aren't servers.
  - somebodythere 6y ago
    Yes, from a technical perspective you are right. However, from a conceptual perspective, you can't see any of the content in a server without being specifically invited. There is no global search. You are clearly either "in" or "not in" a server unlike, say, a Tumblr tag.
Cu3PO42 6y ago
This is frankly getting ridiculous. I don't use any NSFW Discord servers nor do I intend to, but the level to which Apple (tries to) moderate user generated content is concerning. What's next? Is Apple Mail going to helpfully filter any email it deems NSFW? I currently use an Android phone and wanted to go back to iOS, because I just preferred the overall experience, but this might just be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me.
- NazakiAid 6y ago
  Was thinking of maybe giving an iPhone (ideally jailbroken) a go in the future because of all the work they are doing for privacy, and then they pull this. Definately too controlling for my liking (not that I use Discord NSFW servers but it's a slippery slope). Will stick to Android and hopefully root to add privacy instead.
  - Cu3PO42 6y ago
    I used to Jailbreak any of my iOS devices, but I found that iOS has gotten good enough, that I really don't needed any of the tweaks and what not anymore. Overall I really really like the iOS experiences. Privacy is a different concern. The mail app pre-installed on my Samsung phone wanted me to agree to a EULA that lets them process any of my mail. I also find that unacceptable, so I found a different mail client I liked and I did the same thing with the entire phone, basically. It's possible, but it's just no annoying and not something I really want to be dealing with. It seems like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. (Yes, I am well aware of the Librem and other such noble efforts, but I can also begrudgingly admit that I'm just not willing to put up with their flaws either.)
    - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
      You don't need to go full librem; get a moto g with an official lineage os port, add gapps if needed, add magisk to taste, done.
      - Cu3PO42 6y ago
cma 6y ago
Does iOS twitter block NSFW posts?
ve55 6y ago
It's always sad to watch these apps go through the phases of their lifecycle that seem like inevitable steps at this point. It's all fun and games in the early days, but eventually the incentive structures that watch over us begin to deteriorate user experience and increase hostility, whether it's via more advertising, invasive privacy measures, or worsening content restrictions and censorship. It seems inevitable that these things start getting worse as an online ecosystem scales up to massive numbers of users. It often reminds me of platforms that try to stand out and be different from the others by empowering users in various ways, and this works at the start, but as they get millions of users they realize the other platforms acted as they did not out of choice, but out of force. You have to comply with app store guidelines, payment processor requests, banks, various world government(s), profit models that actually work, and so on, and before you know it you've become the very thing you sought to disrupt and are no different than every other major social platform with >100M users.
- nonbirithm 6y ago
  I don't know why, but for some reason I'm reminded of the Fermi Paradox after wondering why all of the technological process and app degradation is all happening now in a very recent timespan of a few decades. As in, why was I one of the people who was alive to witness the birth of the Internet, a massively influential point in human history, only a few decades ago? Maybe it's because when communication methods are discovered, humans inevitably want to perfect them, and the attempts to reach perfection have various consequences in a short period of time. There might not have been anything that could have prevented the creation of Facebook and such if humans discovered that it was possible to create such things. I have this weird thought (from a fictional standpoint) that maybe all the adware and other bloat is rapidly converging on an inflection point that will cause some kind of technological collapse where we will have to start over from some earlier reference point, due to sentient AI or something. But I wouldn't know how, exactly. It might make for a mildly interesting SF plot point.
  - progval 6y ago
    > It might make for a mildly interesting SF plot point. https://qntm.org/structure https://qntm.org/structure It's also a minor plot point in Anathem by Neal Stephenson
ceilingcorner 6y ago
Stuff like this is what will divide the internet into national fiefdoms. We’re already seeing it with India, Russia, and China. It’s only going to accelerate when creating a FaceGramTube clone becomes easier and easier. If you’re running a Western startup and think the open internet is a noble idea, please, check your morality at the door.
gbl08ma 6y ago
For those wondering, this is 100% an Apple-directed decision. The strings for a canary version of the client, at one point, blamed App Store rules directly: https://github.com/Discord-Datamining/Discord-Datamining/commit/0a488f466b837465b8eeabd8ef39a26bdc2e8b75#commitcomment-48868174 https://github.com/Discord-Datamining/Discord-Datamining/com... I can only assume that it is also against Apple's rules to blame Apple for their draconian policies, and therefore they had to amend the text.
- barake 6y ago
  You are correct, in my experience. Stating that Apple is mandating a change is grounds for rejection and maybe even a phone call.
  - realusername 6y ago
    That's not surprising, there's some clear anti-trust issues on the mobile app market
  - flurdy 6y ago
    They need a canary. A clear statement that says Apple did not mandate these changes. If it is missing we all know why...
- superkuh 6y ago
  Cut the gordian knot. Discord should just release the iOS application themselves and bypass the Apple walled garden. It is time to end corporate feudalism and the first step is installing applications the way they were meant to be installed instead of through one specific corporate gateway.
  - gbl08ma 6y ago
    On non-jailbroken iOS devices the only way to install apps is through the App Store or through some convoluted methods which involve having a developer account (which you must pay yearly for), and I believe the % of jailbroken iOS devices is much much lower than the % of people willing to install Android APKs outside of Google Play, anyway. Sure, they _could_ do that for few people who have jailbroken iPhones, but doing that is pretty much like giving up on their iOS app altogether.
chosen1111 6y ago
This is why browser is better than apps...for now
- Arrath 6y ago
  Even that advantage is fleeting. I can't access NSFW content on Reddit through Chrome on my Android, it wants me to login with the app. The only way around it is to request the desktop site. Who knows how long that will last. It galls me to be 'required' to use an app to browse a website.
rvz 6y ago
Looks like the whole of big tech (and parts of the fast growing startup ecosystem) is installing a global 'Parental Control' system. Can't wait for the parents of big brother to step forward with this in the future. /s
throw7 6y ago
Stuff like this is so ridiculous. If ANYTHING it should be the opposite... servers or channels should be marked "kid safe". SMH.
causality0 6y ago
But of course Apple is happy to have a Twitter app and a browser that lets you watch porn all day. The level of hypocrisy is astounding.
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  Don’t give them any ideas.
offtop5 6y ago
I'm actually not mad at Apple for enforcing this. Discord, and many other social media apps offer massive amounts of liability. Let's say your ex posts some compromising photos of you in one of these NSFW. You could very well attempt to sue Discord and Apple. Call me a prude, but it wouldn't be a horrible idea to have Discord and Discord NSFW as separate apps.
- grumple 6y ago
  Just wait until they decide what you can or can’t see with Safari, Chrome, or Firefox. This isn’t a slippery slope, that is exactly what is happening here: a company is telling you what you are allowed to read and see, and they have the power to enforce it.
- Mindwipe 6y ago
  > Call me a prude, but it wouldn't be a horrible idea to have Discord and Discord NSFW as separate apps. Apple wouldn't permit such an app in the app store, so it would be a horrible idea.
- captainredbeard 6y ago
  > You could very well attempt to sue Discord and Apple. Not really, this is where Section 230 comes in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230
pteraspidomorph 6y ago
Am I the only one seeing the text body of that website in a horrible, barely legible font? I've always wondered. https://i.imgur.com/q2wrnqv.png https://i.imgur.com/q2wrnqv.png
- Qub3d 6y ago
  Looks like its on your end[0]. I'd check your browser appearance settings to see what your sans-serif font default is. [0]: https://i.imgur.com/kGWcOKg.png https://i.imgur.com/kGWcOKg.png
  - pteraspidomorph 6y ago
    Nope, apparently that's just what the font called "Whitney" that's installed in my computer looks like. I have no idea why. I'll try to replace it with a proper version. https://i.imgur.com/FRumKvf.png https://i.imgur.com/FRumKvf.png
post_break 6y ago
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. What is going on at Apple where they dictate what you see and do online. I'm sure the discord app is already rated 18+. Will reddit clients be next since they have NSFW content and subreddits? Will they start banning purchases from "certain" places if you use your apple credit card? Sorry, can't buy ammo, alcohol, or tobacco with your Apple card starting today!
- protomyth 6y ago
  Sorry, can't buy ammo, alcohol, or tobacco with your Apple card starting today! I don't think this is as far fetched as some would believe. Someone should tell Apple that even Disney produces R-rated movies.
  - post_break 6y ago
    I mean the Obama administration already tried to de-platform the gun industry with operation choke point. I just see this as more fuel to the fire for side loading and antitrust towards Apple.
- Sharlin 6y ago
  > Sorry, can't buy ammo, alcohol, or tobacco with your Apple card starting today! I mean, banning any of those would be less unreasonable than banning NSFW content.
- Kiro 6y ago
  Ammo?! I hope you understand how ridiculous that comparison sounds to someone outside the US. You may just as well have said "What's next? Banning purchases of nuclear weapons?".
  - throwaway3699 6y ago
    Devil's advocate: What's the difference between ammo and knives?
    - 6y ago
throwaway823882 6y ago
Has anyone pointed out to them that teens generally don't work? Although some do - so what does being 18 years old have to do with work? And if it's NSFW, it may still be perfectly safe for teens, like a Discord about poop jokes. And is artwork considered NSFW? Or is it safe for teens, and not safe for work? This whole thing seems so poorly implemented. They should just call it the "don't show kids pictures of boobies" rule and drop the "work" pretense.
- least 6y ago
  There’s not much reason to change well-understood terminology just because it doesn’t match a pedant’s definition closely enough.
  - throwaway823882 6y ago
    My whole point is this is not well understood. It's not pedantry, it's basic miscommunication. One small group of people think they know what it means. Meanwhile they are conflating two entirely different groups of people (people at work, and teens), and disregarding the cultural conventions of the rest of the planet. It makes them look stupid.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  Plus it feels exclusionary for people who work in porn industry
  - Dma54rhs 6y ago
    Sex work is not a protected class and Apple doesn't owe them a platform.
    - cblconfederate 6y ago
      so a film editor has no worker rights if he works in porn? didnt know
codegeek 6y ago
This is why I never want to get into "apps". It is literally controlled by Google and Apple Duopoly. Yes we still use web browsers that are controlled by 2-3 companies but at least we have the flexibility there to an extent. I worry for the future when they start doing shit like this on web browsers.
rubyist5eva 6y ago
Discord - please do the work to make your app a PWA that I can install to my home screen through the mobile browser.
- kevincox 6y ago
  iOS doesn't support web push notifications so the website would be seriously crippled compared even if the Discord had a good mobile UI. (Not that Discord appears to support web push right now anyways)
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    Make it a web app and rename the ios app to "Discord notifications"
  - easton 6y ago
    Notifications barely work in the Discord iOS app as it is, maybe it'd be fine.
  - rubyist5eva 6y ago
    It would still be worth it.
protomyth 6y ago
Samsung should have some fun with this. Find some discord servers that are marked NSFW that have content that is considered non-controversial and show that Apple phones have those blocked. A lot of people with iPhones and pacifiers om their mouths should get the message across.
1337biz 6y ago
Why is Discord such a centralized thing? If it were decentralized hosting (in browser or however else), it would just be a gatway like a browser.
- DocTomoe 6y ago
  If Discord was decentralized, Microsoft wouldn't have paid all that money for them.
  - anticensor 6y ago
    Well, Microsoft can offer on-premises Discord as a replacement of on-premises Teams.
syoc 6y ago
I wonder what it would be like if browsers were invented today, if the underlying standards (http, html) were already set. I do not like this climate at all.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  "Please remove the word 'fuck' from all the internet before resubmitting"
bpodgursky 6y ago
I don't see any clear reason why Apple wouldn't, on this basis, start filtering emails within the Gmail or iOS email apps for explicit or unpalatable content.
- anticensor 6y ago
  Intercept e-mail and userbase would flee.
adamrezich 6y ago
well this sucks—the server one of my friends set up & we all use to communicate, coordinate video game nights, share recipes, and such, is marked as NSFW. I'm not sure why, it might've just been a joke early on, but no NSFW materials get posted there. now we have to go through a manual appeal process just so the few of us (not me) with iPhones can continue to access the server with iPhones? pretty ridiculous!
bschne 6y ago
The moralistic decisions shaping parts of the internet and technology are getting pretty ridiculous. I'm not interested in making any grand statements or drawing parallels to Orwell or what have you here. But sometimes I really just want to indicate my situation by pointing an emoji gun at my emoji head, or respond to a friend with a GIF some might consider offensive, and I really think anyone who can be trusted to use the internet should also be trusted to handle that ability somewhat responsibly, and eradicating it from our communications repertoire like this really does not serve anyone in my view.
throwaway98797 6y ago
slightly off topic i hate that there’s no to let my ios device correctly auto correct fuck. it’s never duck. never.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  If you add “fuck” to your keyboard dictionary that will ducking stop.
wayoutthere 6y ago
Very serious question here — where can we have 18+ discussions of NSFW topics? There are very real reasons to do this; somewhat mundane things like LGBT communities and sporting firearms competitors are having a very hard time using common communication platforms on the Internet because the vagueness in the definition of “NSFW” and the policing of subject matter. Life is full of wonderful people of varying shades of weirdness. Freezing the people at the fringes out of mobile platforms does a disservice to everyone.
swiley 6y ago
I wonder if it's possible to use the web app on iOS. I've been doing that on my pinephone for a while and it works very well.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
anticristi 6y ago
This is disappointing. I was looking forward to some adult language within the FQDN of servers. :)
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
Imagine you bought a BMW car and a year after you bought it they pushed an update that limited the speed to 90 mph, the car refused to drive through a 'bad neighborhood' and refused to take fuel from non-approved fuel stations? There would fucking riots in the streets. Yet somehow this behavior is tolerated when it comes to this industry. The whole parade is being run by greedy wankers with no respect for individual liberty.
- Nemo_bis 6y ago
  Agreed in principle, but note you never bought anything in the first place when you're using SaaSS: at best you're merely renting. So a better example could be Hertz asking you to please not drive through these neighbourhoods. An example of actual purchase would be a fully free/libre and open source software.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    The problem is that all physical items we have now come with software: phones, cars, watches, home appliances, etc. So everything in your life becomes SaaS and subject to change at anytime because management of XCorp had a brainfart
sod 6y ago
What is going on with this comment section? Pointing fingers at Apple because discord wants that 12+ flag seems pretty unprofessional. If discord doesn't offer a second "17+" app, they just left a gap for a competitor to fill the void. That's all. The louder you scream "iOS is blocking adult content", the faster iPhones will approach 100% marketshare for kids, because parents buy those devices and they like some little help for managing content.
- SSLy 6y ago
  Discord is already 17+ on AppStore.
  - sod 6y ago
    Maybe they want to lower it to 12+? If not, this change makes no sense. Aren't youtube & reddit clients also able to access nsfw content from within iOS apps?
- zamadatix 6y ago
  If age based feature access is part of the platform it should be a content maturity permission whose access level can be set or restricted via parental management tools just like network access or screen time can. Requiring a different version of the app to manage each combination of allowed privileges makes things far too complicated and ends up having undesired side effects.
reilly3000 6y ago
I'm not endorsing censorship in any way, but I think a lot of people in these comments fail to understand what an average teen's discord experience is like: - Join tons of servers, where the friends/lolz are - Many run popular bots - Many popular bots have porn commands, for example the popular Dank Memer, which is a general utility/games bot -- /black posts BBC content -- /group posts group sex pics -- /xmas posts christmas themed porn?! - Its not uncommon for people to post nudes of themselves or friends Sometimes the content stays inside of channels labeled NSFW, but often it pops up elsewhere. If you're hanging out in many discord servers, it can be pretty difficult to fully avoid porn in your feeds, or its always 1 click away. Its mostly left to server admins and mods to enforce those rules. Do with that what you will, but its based on that basic set of information that Apple and Discord are approaching these issues.
rchaud 6y ago
Discord doesn't offer a PWA?
- tehbeard 6y ago
  Even if they did, PWAs are so heavily nerfed within Apple/Safari as to be mostly useless.
zitterbewegung 6y ago
If you read between the lines this is an indicator that a buyout might be coming really soon.
dcow 6y ago
> Additionally, all users on the iOS platform (including those aged 18+) will be blocked from joining and accessing NSFW servers. iOS users aged 18+ will still be able to join and access NSFW communities on the desktop and web versions of Discord. What?! Is this an accurate interpretation of Apple’s policy? I know you cant have specifically NSFW apps but I didn't think their policy applied to user generated content. It’s certainly not the status quo to ban all NSFW user content on iOS on other platforms.
- twobitshifter 6y ago
  Here’s the rule from the App Store policies “If your app includes user-generated content from a web-based service, it may display incidental mature “NSFW” content, provided that the content is hidden by default and only displayed when the user turns it on via your website” Join the community through the web link and you should be able to access the content, I’m not sure why they are blocking accessing as well as joining...
  - floatingatoll 6y ago
    The key word here is "incidental", and helps connect the dots for why specific nsfw channels are ok, but entire nsfw servers are not, in Discord's view anyways. (I don't necessarily agree or disagree with Discord's interpretation, but a lot of folks are glossing over "incidental", so.)
Anon1096 6y ago
Is Discord going to be banning 1-to-1 or small group (not server) conversations that have NSFW content as well? This is obviously a move to placate Apple, but even with taking this step it seems to me that they may still get into hot water by allowing private chats.
- anticensor 6y ago
  No, that would be too obvious.
fny 6y ago
Before people get all worked up. This is certainly so that discord can maintain it's current rating "T for Teen" on the app stores. Apple likely got POed since Discord could be used as a work around for parental controls, and here we are. The right long term policy might be to have multiple apps or a feature to restrict NSFW access within the Discord app akin to Netflix, but to address the issue immediately, this is a reasonable short term policy. Don't forget an enormous user base are kids from 13-17, so this, in my view, is entirely reasonable until they sort out a longer term solution.
- stalfosknight 6y ago
  Then why isn't this happening to the Android client? I'm pretty sure lots of teens have Android devices.
wly_cdgr 6y ago
It seems their IPOitis is progressing rapidly, Doctor. I fear there is nothing we can do to help them
mensetmanusman 6y ago
My friends who supported the Parler ban also support this; consistency is key: Apple defines exactly what moderation is required for any social media on their platform.
015a 6y ago
Apple is very quickly driving toward an inflection point, and it feels like they're asleep at the wheel; either unaware of what this is going to do to their App Store business, or so full of themselves that they don't care. One can argue that decisions like this are driven by valuation, revenue, and stock price; but I don't think so. If I were a major Apple shareholder, I'd be majorly concerned. From every possible angle, Apple is shooting themselves in the foot by crossing their arms and saying "no, we won't work with you, you work with us." Its unsustainable; developers can be pushed, even quite far, but eventually they will snap back, and Apple can't afford to acquire all of them before they do. Apple, and the iOS platform, physically cannot sustain the combined push-back from all the areas they're experiencing it; from revenue cut, to alternate payment processors, to the game streaming ban, to gagging developers from telling their customers why they have to do what they do, to their stance on naked humans, to their app tracking transparency changes... these are all stances you can take when you've got a few million customers, but they're the sole source of executable code for a billion devices around the planet. Its absolutely and totally unacceptable and untenable at this point. Ethically, sure. Legally, very likely. Even economically! Apple's short-sighted App Store policies are primed to substantially hurt that part of their business, and that pain will echo throughout their tight ecosystem. If I can't play Xbox Game Streaming or Fortnite, maybe I don't buy an iPhone. If I don't buy an iPhone, I definitely don't buy an Apple Watch, nor likely a Mac either. I may pay for Apple TV+, but certainly not Apple Music, or Fitness, or iCloud Drive. Why are their shareholders putting up with this? It baffles me. History has demonstrated one thing, with the clarity of polished glass: We do better when we work together. Countries who isolate their economies inevitably falter. Markets which isolate perform worse. Open source projects gain more traction than similar proprietary ones. Working together, with each other, is always the way forward; its better ethically, morally, legally, and economically. But Apple refuses to work with anyone else. They're choosing to fight wars on ten different fronts. No one forced them to. Tim Cook has adopted the likeness of Ghengis Khan, trying to secure Apple's legacy for the next century by forcing anyone who Thinks Differently to instead think like Apple, or be destroyed. It won't work, and Apple will be irrevocably hurt in the process. The government needs to get involved. Not only to protect consumers; but to protect an otherwise strong, amazing American business. They're destroying themselves for no reason. I don't want to live in this reality Apple has plotted for the world, but I also don't want Apple to return to their status of the late 90s; there's a middleground where they remain a force for legitimate good in the domains of privacy, security, and ease-of-use. I miss that Apple, and I'm fearful that Tim Cook's legacy won't be the highly successful Apple of the 2010s, but instead what happens to them in the 2020s: a growing list of companies who refuse to do business with them, sophisticated customers leaving by the handful, and overblown government intervention. It could be different, Tim. But not like this.
stalfosknight 6y ago
https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500004241422--Recent-Update-Apple-App-Store-Age-Rating-Change https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500004241422-... This is the real reason this is happening. Other apps have no problem with hiding NSFW content by default (i.e. Reddit, Twitter). Discord has a burning need to lower their age rating for some reason.
sam0x17 6y ago
And with that, I am out of the iOS and Apple ecosystem. Back to Android for me. Big brother is here. Will be rocking linux + a pinephone and/or android.
floatingatoll 6y ago
Everything I've seen so far today could also be summarized as "Discord chose on their own to interpret the published App Store rules without seeking comment from Apple", which would be quite a different story from the one that's popularly assumed. I wish that I could find a missing piece of evidence to contradict or confirm that. So, then: Has Discord confirmed that they discussed their intentions with Apple prior to publishing these changes? (If they did not, then that opens the door for many more uncomfortable questions for Discord.)
- kaibee 6y ago
  https://github.com/Discord-Datamining/Discord-Datamining/commit/0a488f466b837465b8eeabd8ef39a26bdc2e8b75#commitcomment-48868174 https://github.com/Discord-Datamining/Discord-Datamining/com...
  - floatingatoll 6y ago
    The quoted message says: "Sorry about this, but App Store rules say you can’t join age restricted servers on iOS. Please use the desktop app or website to join this server." This does not clarify matters, as both of the following three contradictory statements all agree with it: 1. "Our lawyers informed us that the app store rules prohibit this, and we chose not to discuss or contest our lawyers' interpretation with Apple before proceeding." 2. "Apple both informed us that the app store rules prohibit this, and we chose not to appeal that ruling with Apple before proceeding." 3. "Apple both informed us that the app store rules prohibit this, but we exhausted all avenues of appeal before proceeding." Which is it, Discord?
gfxgirl 6y ago
If Apple was consistent with this I wouldn't mind as much. To be consistent they'd have to ban twitter, reddit, safari, chrome, firefox, Apple's music service, all the other music services, the Podcast app, other podcast apps, iBooks, Amazon reader, and basically every app that lets you access NSFW content. As it is, banning just some means Apple is (a) choosing the winners and (b) being hypocritical

254 points by Mindwipe 6y ago

kactus 6y ago

It sounds like an Apple-directed decision. Is Reddit next?

Mindwipe 6y ago
It does. It doesn't fit with the published iOS terms, but as we've seen before, Apple frequently ignores the published App Store terms during approval.
tinus_hn 6y ago
Or it’s a “we’re selling to Microsoft” decision. Who knows.
- jacurtis 6y ago
  Yep I think this is influenced by the potential/likely sale to Microsoft. The timing makes more sense. So to clarify for people who don't use Discord or don't understand the article. What Discord is announcing is that now they will start marking entire SERVERS as NSFW. Keep in mind that server owners have been able to mark CHANNELS within a server as NSFW for a long time now and the iOS app has respected that (when you enter an NSFW channel you must be logged in, not a guest, and must explicitly agree each time you enter). So the blocking of NSFW content in the iOS app has been around for a while. A server that is full of NSFW content would simply have an NSFW block on every channel. This would meet Apple's censorship requirements and Discord has been meeting it for a while. Nothing new here on the Apple front. What is new is that Microsoft is interested in Discord. Recently Discord has made the news for fostering violent or NSFW content (most publicly from Wall Street Bets, which was the first time lots of Wall Street investors had heard of Discord). This change to internally-dictating NSFW servers seems like a way to make Discord more attractive to companies like Microsoft in a sale. Someone like Microsoft doesn't want to be looked at as fostering or promoting bad content, so these protections are ways to heal that image. Again, the change here isn't the introduction of an NSFW blocker. That has been around for a while. The change is that now Discord themselves will flag entire servers as NSFW. Previously it was up to server admins/owners to mark the individual channels on their server as NSFW. Now Discord is taking a lead to control/censor/block this content.
  - Mindwipe 6y ago
    If this was the motivation it seems unlikely that this would only apply to the iOS app and not to the Android app or the web.
clscott 6y ago
Reddit clients on iOS already have to filter out NSFW content unless the viewer is logged in and has some settings applied to their account. This is an Apple policy not a Reddit policy https://www.vice.com/en/article/78k8yb/reddit-ios-apps-disappear-nsfw-content https://www.vice.com/en/article/78k8yb/reddit-ios-apps-disap... Edit: added the url I meant to use in the first place
- pksebben 6y ago
  Android here, that link is busted for me unless I install the app. seems like a reddit problem to me
- Sandvich 6y ago
  I help make one such Reddit client. There’s an invisible rule that you can’t show users the NSFW toggle or even mention that it’s on the website. We had a toggle that only lets you turn it off if it’s on, and that alone was too much. We also got rejected once because the top post that day had the word “fuck” in it. That was a fun one.
  - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
    Telegram has it that you have to log in to the web one and switch a toggle which will unblock content on the iOS app. Everyone just assumes iOS the app doesn’t allow it so the setting is spread via word of mouth. It’s honestly insane.
everetm 6y ago
Reddit already censors all nudity related subreddits from r/all. Historically that was only enforced on r/popular.

simiones 6y ago

Will Apple next require browsers to stop allowing access to pornography?

beckman466 6y ago
No we’ll just need a pornography watcher’s license. But don’t worry, it’ll just be in your Apple wallet next to your Apple Card.
- ismaildonmez 6y ago
  This is similar to what's happening in the UK - https://www.ageid.com/ https://www.ageid.com/
- shrikant 6y ago
  We've got that in the UK. Most (all?) cell service providers require you to call them up and ask them to unblock your access to "NSFW" sites over mobile data. I recall the Vodafone customer service rep very distinctly asking me, "Sir, are you aware that this will mean you will be able access websites of an adult nature?" and replying with a resounding "Yes, I look forward to it, please go ahead!"
  - beckman466 6y ago
    > websites of an adult nature Overly formal language like this always cracks me up.
    - shrikant 6y ago
      I've no doubt btw that the language and the strident tone used by the rep are meant to nudge (perhaps even shame?) the customer away from enabling this option. Joke's on them!
      - beckman466 6y ago
        > perhaps even shame the customer absolutely! i hear you

pjmlp 6y ago

Can we please stop having US morality controlling Internet? What about Discord blocking servers full of war scenes and car chasing with shootings?

RankingMember 6y ago
The juxtaposition is really pretty amazing and, ultimately, frustrating to see. You can see the far-reaching impact of the odd "Violence yes! Sex no!" American morality in so many places. One recent example that struck me: GTA Online, a game rife with violence and destruction and even sex (surprisingly for an American game), but the chat has a profanity filter that filters words that are otherwise present in the game's scripted dialog and soundtrack left and right.
- hprotagonist 6y ago
  >You can see the far-reaching impact of the odd "Violence yes! Sex no!" American morality in so many places. 1978: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNLOXJw0aUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNLOXJw0aUU "better get down off that horse, sherrif: we're fixin' ter fuck yeh, now ... but we're not gonna fuck yeh fast; we're gonna fuck yeh sloooooow"
- u678u 6y ago
  I couldn't believe the Slayer Repentless video is on Youtube (with an age check) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjb0j9l1sz4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjb0j9l1sz4. But a tiny bit of nipple is forbidden.
- acta_non_verba 6y ago
  Grand Theft Auto is a British game.
  - adamrezich 6y ago
    with an American publisher
- gambiting 6y ago

Quarrelsome 6y ago

Is this just for tiddies or is this corporate America trying to install its worldwide swear filter again?

zer0-c00l 6y ago

Do servers get to set their own NSFW flag or is it punitive?

sodality2 6y ago
They set it themselves on each channel manually. afaik, no manual or automated NSFW tagging by admins, only server owners.
- tsukikage 6y ago
  From the link: "Owners of communities designated NSFW by Discord will have to submit an appeal if they wish to have the NSFW server-level designation removed." That doesn't sound like self-designation is the only path to being marked NSFW.
  - chris37879 6y ago
    The way I understood it, you can designate your server, but if the admins come across a server that should be NSFW, they will mark it. I imagine it comes from user reports of content.
- pteraspidomorph 6y ago
  Sounds like it will be punitive. You need to enable content filter (non negotiable) to enable community features. Content filter does not apply to NSFW channels. What will likely happen is that if content filter keeps "detecting" NSFW content in your channels in which it operates (non-NSFW channels) it will eventually tag the whole server as NSFW.

frob 6y ago

Isn't this exactly what happened to Tumblr back in 2018? It feels a little different since Tumblr is one big unit and Discord has its content shared by servers so it's not like you're immediately able to find NSFW content with Discord without explicitly searching out and finding a server to add. I applaud apple for their work towards making iOS secure, but I still just can't get on board since they can decide at any time I don't have the ability to choose for myself what software I want to run. There's a reason my first iPhone was immediately jail-broken and I left the platform almost 10 years ago.

kmfrk 6y ago
Tumblr was supposedly over child porn: https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/19/tumblr-booted-from-app-store-due-to-child-porn/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/19/tumblr-booted-from-app-sto....
theklr 6y ago
Not quite. Tumblr just followed rules and applied a weak filter hidden in the settings. Then yahoo bought them and killed it for #ads
- Miner49er 6y ago
  It was only when Verizon bought Yahoo.
wizzwizz4 6y ago
Discord is one big unit; its “servers” aren't servers.
- somebodythere 6y ago
  Yes, from a technical perspective you are right. However, from a conceptual perspective, you can't see any of the content in a server without being specifically invited. There is no global search. You are clearly either "in" or "not in" a server unlike, say, a Tumblr tag.

Cu3PO42 6y ago

This is frankly getting ridiculous. I don't use any NSFW Discord servers nor do I intend to, but the level to which Apple (tries to) moderate user generated content is concerning. What's next? Is Apple Mail going to helpfully filter any email it deems NSFW? I currently use an Android phone and wanted to go back to iOS, because I just preferred the overall experience, but this might just be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me.

NazakiAid 6y ago
Was thinking of maybe giving an iPhone (ideally jailbroken) a go in the future because of all the work they are doing for privacy, and then they pull this. Definately too controlling for my liking (not that I use Discord NSFW servers but it's a slippery slope). Will stick to Android and hopefully root to add privacy instead.
- Cu3PO42 6y ago
  I used to Jailbreak any of my iOS devices, but I found that iOS has gotten good enough, that I really don't needed any of the tweaks and what not anymore. Overall I really really like the iOS experiences. Privacy is a different concern. The mail app pre-installed on my Samsung phone wanted me to agree to a EULA that lets them process any of my mail. I also find that unacceptable, so I found a different mail client I liked and I did the same thing with the entire phone, basically. It's possible, but it's just no annoying and not something I really want to be dealing with. It seems like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. (Yes, I am well aware of the Librem and other such noble efforts, but I can also begrudgingly admit that I'm just not willing to put up with their flaws either.)
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    You don't need to go full librem; get a moto g with an official lineage os port, add gapps if needed, add magisk to taste, done.
    - Cu3PO42 6y ago

cma 6y ago

Does iOS twitter block NSFW posts?

ve55 6y ago

It's always sad to watch these apps go through the phases of their lifecycle that seem like inevitable steps at this point. It's all fun and games in the early days, but eventually the incentive structures that watch over us begin to deteriorate user experience and increase hostility, whether it's via more advertising, invasive privacy measures, or worsening content restrictions and censorship. It seems inevitable that these things start getting worse as an online ecosystem scales up to massive numbers of users. It often reminds me of platforms that try to stand out and be different from the others by empowering users in various ways, and this works at the start, but as they get millions of users they realize the other platforms acted as they did not out of choice, but out of force. You have to comply with app store guidelines, payment processor requests, banks, various world government(s), profit models that actually work, and so on, and before you know it you've become the very thing you sought to disrupt and are no different than every other major social platform with >100M users.

nonbirithm 6y ago
I don't know why, but for some reason I'm reminded of the Fermi Paradox after wondering why all of the technological process and app degradation is all happening now in a very recent timespan of a few decades. As in, why was I one of the people who was alive to witness the birth of the Internet, a massively influential point in human history, only a few decades ago? Maybe it's because when communication methods are discovered, humans inevitably want to perfect them, and the attempts to reach perfection have various consequences in a short period of time. There might not have been anything that could have prevented the creation of Facebook and such if humans discovered that it was possible to create such things. I have this weird thought (from a fictional standpoint) that maybe all the adware and other bloat is rapidly converging on an inflection point that will cause some kind of technological collapse where we will have to start over from some earlier reference point, due to sentient AI or something. But I wouldn't know how, exactly. It might make for a mildly interesting SF plot point.
- progval 6y ago
  > It might make for a mildly interesting SF plot point. https://qntm.org/structure https://qntm.org/structure It's also a minor plot point in Anathem by Neal Stephenson

ceilingcorner 6y ago

Stuff like this is what will divide the internet into national fiefdoms. We’re already seeing it with India, Russia, and China. It’s only going to accelerate when creating a FaceGramTube clone becomes easier and easier. If you’re running a Western startup and think the open internet is a noble idea, please, check your morality at the door.

gbl08ma 6y ago

For those wondering, this is 100% an Apple-directed decision. The strings for a canary version of the client, at one point, blamed App Store rules directly: https://github.com/Discord-Datamining/Discord-Datamining/commit/0a488f466b837465b8eeabd8ef39a26bdc2e8b75#commitcomment-48868174 https://github.com/Discord-Datamining/Discord-Datamining/com... I can only assume that it is also against Apple's rules to blame Apple for their draconian policies, and therefore they had to amend the text.

barake 6y ago
You are correct, in my experience. Stating that Apple is mandating a change is grounds for rejection and maybe even a phone call.
- realusername 6y ago
  That's not surprising, there's some clear anti-trust issues on the mobile app market
- flurdy 6y ago
  They need a canary. A clear statement that says Apple did not mandate these changes. If it is missing we all know why...
superkuh 6y ago
Cut the gordian knot. Discord should just release the iOS application themselves and bypass the Apple walled garden. It is time to end corporate feudalism and the first step is installing applications the way they were meant to be installed instead of through one specific corporate gateway.
- gbl08ma 6y ago
  On non-jailbroken iOS devices the only way to install apps is through the App Store or through some convoluted methods which involve having a developer account (which you must pay yearly for), and I believe the % of jailbroken iOS devices is much much lower than the % of people willing to install Android APKs outside of Google Play, anyway. Sure, they _could_ do that for few people who have jailbroken iPhones, but doing that is pretty much like giving up on their iOS app altogether.

chosen1111 6y ago

This is why browser is better than apps...for now

Arrath 6y ago
Even that advantage is fleeting. I can't access NSFW content on Reddit through Chrome on my Android, it wants me to login with the app. The only way around it is to request the desktop site. Who knows how long that will last. It galls me to be 'required' to use an app to browse a website.

rvz 6y ago

Looks like the whole of big tech (and parts of the fast growing startup ecosystem) is installing a global 'Parental Control' system. Can't wait for the parents of big brother to step forward with this in the future. /s

throw7 6y ago

Stuff like this is so ridiculous. If ANYTHING it should be the opposite... servers or channels should be marked "kid safe". SMH.

causality0 6y ago

But of course Apple is happy to have a Twitter app and a browser that lets you watch porn all day. The level of hypocrisy is astounding.

ceilingcorner 6y ago
Don’t give them any ideas.

offtop5 6y ago

I'm actually not mad at Apple for enforcing this. Discord, and many other social media apps offer massive amounts of liability. Let's say your ex posts some compromising photos of you in one of these NSFW. You could very well attempt to sue Discord and Apple. Call me a prude, but it wouldn't be a horrible idea to have Discord and Discord NSFW as separate apps.

grumple 6y ago
Just wait until they decide what you can or can’t see with Safari, Chrome, or Firefox. This isn’t a slippery slope, that is exactly what is happening here: a company is telling you what you are allowed to read and see, and they have the power to enforce it.
Mindwipe 6y ago
> Call me a prude, but it wouldn't be a horrible idea to have Discord and Discord NSFW as separate apps. Apple wouldn't permit such an app in the app store, so it would be a horrible idea.
captainredbeard 6y ago
> You could very well attempt to sue Discord and Apple. Not really, this is where Section 230 comes in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230

pteraspidomorph 6y ago

Am I the only one seeing the text body of that website in a horrible, barely legible font? I've always wondered. https://i.imgur.com/q2wrnqv.png https://i.imgur.com/q2wrnqv.png

Qub3d 6y ago
Looks like its on your end[0]. I'd check your browser appearance settings to see what your sans-serif font default is. [0]: https://i.imgur.com/kGWcOKg.png https://i.imgur.com/kGWcOKg.png
- pteraspidomorph 6y ago
  Nope, apparently that's just what the font called "Whitney" that's installed in my computer looks like. I have no idea why. I'll try to replace it with a proper version. https://i.imgur.com/FRumKvf.png https://i.imgur.com/FRumKvf.png

post_break 6y ago

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. What is going on at Apple where they dictate what you see and do online. I'm sure the discord app is already rated 18+. Will reddit clients be next since they have NSFW content and subreddits? Will they start banning purchases from "certain" places if you use your apple credit card? Sorry, can't buy ammo, alcohol, or tobacco with your Apple card starting today!

protomyth 6y ago
Sorry, can't buy ammo, alcohol, or tobacco with your Apple card starting today! I don't think this is as far fetched as some would believe. Someone should tell Apple that even Disney produces R-rated movies.
- post_break 6y ago
  I mean the Obama administration already tried to de-platform the gun industry with operation choke point. I just see this as more fuel to the fire for side loading and antitrust towards Apple.
Sharlin 6y ago
> Sorry, can't buy ammo, alcohol, or tobacco with your Apple card starting today! I mean, banning any of those would be less unreasonable than banning NSFW content.
Kiro 6y ago
Ammo?! I hope you understand how ridiculous that comparison sounds to someone outside the US. You may just as well have said "What's next? Banning purchases of nuclear weapons?".
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  Devil's advocate: What's the difference between ammo and knives?
  - 6y ago

throwaway823882 6y ago

Has anyone pointed out to them that teens generally don't work? Although some do - so what does being 18 years old have to do with work? And if it's NSFW, it may still be perfectly safe for teens, like a Discord about poop jokes. And is artwork considered NSFW? Or is it safe for teens, and not safe for work? This whole thing seems so poorly implemented. They should just call it the "don't show kids pictures of boobies" rule and drop the "work" pretense.

least 6y ago
There’s not much reason to change well-understood terminology just because it doesn’t match a pedant’s definition closely enough.
- throwaway823882 6y ago
  My whole point is this is not well understood. It's not pedantry, it's basic miscommunication. One small group of people think they know what it means. Meanwhile they are conflating two entirely different groups of people (people at work, and teens), and disregarding the cultural conventions of the rest of the planet. It makes them look stupid.
cblconfederate 6y ago
Plus it feels exclusionary for people who work in porn industry
- Dma54rhs 6y ago
  Sex work is not a protected class and Apple doesn't owe them a platform.
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    so a film editor has no worker rights if he works in porn? didnt know

codegeek 6y ago

This is why I never want to get into "apps". It is literally controlled by Google and Apple Duopoly. Yes we still use web browsers that are controlled by 2-3 companies but at least we have the flexibility there to an extent. I worry for the future when they start doing shit like this on web browsers.

rubyist5eva 6y ago

Discord - please do the work to make your app a PWA that I can install to my home screen through the mobile browser.

kevincox 6y ago
iOS doesn't support web push notifications so the website would be seriously crippled compared even if the Discord had a good mobile UI. (Not that Discord appears to support web push right now anyways)
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  Make it a web app and rename the ios app to "Discord notifications"
- easton 6y ago
  Notifications barely work in the Discord iOS app as it is, maybe it'd be fine.
- rubyist5eva 6y ago
  It would still be worth it.

protomyth 6y ago

Samsung should have some fun with this. Find some discord servers that are marked NSFW that have content that is considered non-controversial and show that Apple phones have those blocked. A lot of people with iPhones and pacifiers om their mouths should get the message across.

1337biz 6y ago

Why is Discord such a centralized thing? If it were decentralized hosting (in browser or however else), it would just be a gatway like a browser.

DocTomoe 6y ago
If Discord was decentralized, Microsoft wouldn't have paid all that money for them.
- anticensor 6y ago
  Well, Microsoft can offer on-premises Discord as a replacement of on-premises Teams.

syoc 6y ago

I wonder what it would be like if browsers were invented today, if the underlying standards (http, html) were already set. I do not like this climate at all.

cblconfederate 6y ago
"Please remove the word 'fuck' from all the internet before resubmitting"

bpodgursky 6y ago

I don't see any clear reason why Apple wouldn't, on this basis, start filtering emails within the Gmail or iOS email apps for explicit or unpalatable content.

anticensor 6y ago
Intercept e-mail and userbase would flee.

adamrezich 6y ago

well this sucks—the server one of my friends set up & we all use to communicate, coordinate video game nights, share recipes, and such, is marked as NSFW. I'm not sure why, it might've just been a joke early on, but no NSFW materials get posted there. now we have to go through a manual appeal process just so the few of us (not me) with iPhones can continue to access the server with iPhones? pretty ridiculous!

bschne 6y ago

The moralistic decisions shaping parts of the internet and technology are getting pretty ridiculous. I'm not interested in making any grand statements or drawing parallels to Orwell or what have you here. But sometimes I really just want to indicate my situation by pointing an emoji gun at my emoji head, or respond to a friend with a GIF some might consider offensive, and I really think anyone who can be trusted to use the internet should also be trusted to handle that ability somewhat responsibly, and eradicating it from our communications repertoire like this really does not serve anyone in my view.

throwaway98797 6y ago

slightly off topic i hate that there’s no to let my ios device correctly auto correct fuck. it’s never duck. never.

IgorPartola 6y ago
If you add “fuck” to your keyboard dictionary that will ducking stop.

wayoutthere 6y ago

Very serious question here — where can we have 18+ discussions of NSFW topics? There are very real reasons to do this; somewhat mundane things like LGBT communities and sporting firearms competitors are having a very hard time using common communication platforms on the Internet because the vagueness in the definition of “NSFW” and the policing of subject matter. Life is full of wonderful people of varying shades of weirdness. Freezing the people at the fringes out of mobile platforms does a disservice to everyone.

swiley 6y ago

I wonder if it's possible to use the web app on iOS. I've been doing that on my pinephone for a while and it works very well.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

anticristi 6y ago

This is disappointing. I was looking forward to some adult language within the FQDN of servers. :)

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

Imagine you bought a BMW car and a year after you bought it they pushed an update that limited the speed to 90 mph, the car refused to drive through a 'bad neighborhood' and refused to take fuel from non-approved fuel stations? There would fucking riots in the streets. Yet somehow this behavior is tolerated when it comes to this industry. The whole parade is being run by greedy wankers with no respect for individual liberty.

Nemo_bis 6y ago
Agreed in principle, but note you never bought anything in the first place when you're using SaaSS: at best you're merely renting. So a better example could be Hertz asking you to please not drive through these neighbourhoods. An example of actual purchase would be a fully free/libre and open source software.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  The problem is that all physical items we have now come with software: phones, cars, watches, home appliances, etc. So everything in your life becomes SaaS and subject to change at anytime because management of XCorp had a brainfart

sod 6y ago

What is going on with this comment section? Pointing fingers at Apple because discord wants that 12+ flag seems pretty unprofessional. If discord doesn't offer a second "17+" app, they just left a gap for a competitor to fill the void. That's all. The louder you scream "iOS is blocking adult content", the faster iPhones will approach 100% marketshare for kids, because parents buy those devices and they like some little help for managing content.

SSLy 6y ago
Discord is already 17+ on AppStore.
- sod 6y ago
  Maybe they want to lower it to 12+? If not, this change makes no sense. Aren't youtube & reddit clients also able to access nsfw content from within iOS apps?
zamadatix 6y ago
If age based feature access is part of the platform it should be a content maturity permission whose access level can be set or restricted via parental management tools just like network access or screen time can. Requiring a different version of the app to manage each combination of allowed privileges makes things far too complicated and ends up having undesired side effects.

reilly3000 6y ago

I'm not endorsing censorship in any way, but I think a lot of people in these comments fail to understand what an average teen's discord experience is like: - Join tons of servers, where the friends/lolz are - Many run popular bots - Many popular bots have porn commands, for example the popular Dank Memer, which is a general utility/games bot -- /black posts BBC content -- /group posts group sex pics -- /xmas posts christmas themed porn?! - Its not uncommon for people to post nudes of themselves or friends Sometimes the content stays inside of channels labeled NSFW, but often it pops up elsewhere. If you're hanging out in many discord servers, it can be pretty difficult to fully avoid porn in your feeds, or its always 1 click away. Its mostly left to server admins and mods to enforce those rules. Do with that what you will, but its based on that basic set of information that Apple and Discord are approaching these issues.

rchaud 6y ago

Discord doesn't offer a PWA?

tehbeard 6y ago
Even if they did, PWAs are so heavily nerfed within Apple/Safari as to be mostly useless.

zitterbewegung 6y ago

If you read between the lines this is an indicator that a buyout might be coming really soon.

dcow 6y ago

> Additionally, all users on the iOS platform (including those aged 18+) will be blocked from joining and accessing NSFW servers. iOS users aged 18+ will still be able to join and access NSFW communities on the desktop and web versions of Discord. What?! Is this an accurate interpretation of Apple’s policy? I know you cant have specifically NSFW apps but I didn't think their policy applied to user generated content. It’s certainly not the status quo to ban all NSFW user content on iOS on other platforms.

twobitshifter 6y ago
Here’s the rule from the App Store policies “If your app includes user-generated content from a web-based service, it may display incidental mature “NSFW” content, provided that the content is hidden by default and only displayed when the user turns it on via your website” Join the community through the web link and you should be able to access the content, I’m not sure why they are blocking accessing as well as joining...
- floatingatoll 6y ago
  The key word here is "incidental", and helps connect the dots for why specific nsfw channels are ok, but entire nsfw servers are not, in Discord's view anyways. (I don't necessarily agree or disagree with Discord's interpretation, but a lot of folks are glossing over "incidental", so.)

Anon1096 6y ago

Is Discord going to be banning 1-to-1 or small group (not server) conversations that have NSFW content as well? This is obviously a move to placate Apple, but even with taking this step it seems to me that they may still get into hot water by allowing private chats.

anticensor 6y ago
No, that would be too obvious.

fny 6y ago

Before people get all worked up. This is certainly so that discord can maintain it's current rating "T for Teen" on the app stores. Apple likely got POed since Discord could be used as a work around for parental controls, and here we are. The right long term policy might be to have multiple apps or a feature to restrict NSFW access within the Discord app akin to Netflix, but to address the issue immediately, this is a reasonable short term policy. Don't forget an enormous user base are kids from 13-17, so this, in my view, is entirely reasonable until they sort out a longer term solution.

stalfosknight 6y ago
Then why isn't this happening to the Android client? I'm pretty sure lots of teens have Android devices.

wly_cdgr 6y ago

It seems their IPOitis is progressing rapidly, Doctor. I fear there is nothing we can do to help them

mensetmanusman 6y ago

My friends who supported the Parler ban also support this; consistency is key: Apple defines exactly what moderation is required for any social media on their platform.

015a 6y ago

Apple is very quickly driving toward an inflection point, and it feels like they're asleep at the wheel; either unaware of what this is going to do to their App Store business, or so full of themselves that they don't care. One can argue that decisions like this are driven by valuation, revenue, and stock price; but I don't think so. If I were a major Apple shareholder, I'd be majorly concerned. From every possible angle, Apple is shooting themselves in the foot by crossing their arms and saying "no, we won't work with you, you work with us." Its unsustainable; developers can be pushed, even quite far, but eventually they will snap back, and Apple can't afford to acquire all of them before they do. Apple, and the iOS platform, physically cannot sustain the combined push-back from all the areas they're experiencing it; from revenue cut, to alternate payment processors, to the game streaming ban, to gagging developers from telling their customers why they have to do what they do, to their stance on naked humans, to their app tracking transparency changes... these are all stances you can take when you've got a few million customers, but they're the sole source of executable code for a billion devices around the planet. Its absolutely and totally unacceptable and untenable at this point. Ethically, sure. Legally, very likely. Even economically! Apple's short-sighted App Store policies are primed to substantially hurt that part of their business, and that pain will echo throughout their tight ecosystem. If I can't play Xbox Game Streaming or Fortnite, maybe I don't buy an iPhone. If I don't buy an iPhone, I definitely don't buy an Apple Watch, nor likely a Mac either. I may pay for Apple TV+, but certainly not Apple Music, or Fitness, or iCloud Drive. Why are their shareholders putting up with this? It baffles me. History has demonstrated one thing, with the clarity of polished glass: We do better when we work together. Countries who isolate their economies inevitably falter. Markets which isolate perform worse. Open source projects gain more traction than similar proprietary ones. Working together, with each other, is always the way forward; its better ethically, morally, legally, and economically. But Apple refuses to work with anyone else. They're choosing to fight wars on ten different fronts. No one forced them to. Tim Cook has adopted the likeness of Ghengis Khan, trying to secure Apple's legacy for the next century by forcing anyone who Thinks Differently to instead think like Apple, or be destroyed. It won't work, and Apple will be irrevocably hurt in the process. The government needs to get involved. Not only to protect consumers; but to protect an otherwise strong, amazing American business. They're destroying themselves for no reason. I don't want to live in this reality Apple has plotted for the world, but I also don't want Apple to return to their status of the late 90s; there's a middleground where they remain a force for legitimate good in the domains of privacy, security, and ease-of-use. I miss that Apple, and I'm fearful that Tim Cook's legacy won't be the highly successful Apple of the 2010s, but instead what happens to them in the 2020s: a growing list of companies who refuse to do business with them, sophisticated customers leaving by the handful, and overblown government intervention. It could be different, Tim. But not like this.

stalfosknight 6y ago

https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500004241422--Recent-Update-Apple-App-Store-Age-Rating-Change https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500004241422-... This is the real reason this is happening. Other apps have no problem with hiding NSFW content by default (i.e. Reddit, Twitter). Discord has a burning need to lower their age rating for some reason.

sam0x17 6y ago

And with that, I am out of the iOS and Apple ecosystem. Back to Android for me. Big brother is here. Will be rocking linux + a pinephone and/or android.

floatingatoll 6y ago

Everything I've seen so far today could also be summarized as "Discord chose on their own to interpret the published App Store rules without seeking comment from Apple", which would be quite a different story from the one that's popularly assumed. I wish that I could find a missing piece of evidence to contradict or confirm that. So, then: Has Discord confirmed that they discussed their intentions with Apple prior to publishing these changes? (If they did not, then that opens the door for many more uncomfortable questions for Discord.)

kaibee 6y ago
https://github.com/Discord-Datamining/Discord-Datamining/commit/0a488f466b837465b8eeabd8ef39a26bdc2e8b75#commitcomment-48868174 https://github.com/Discord-Datamining/Discord-Datamining/com...
- floatingatoll 6y ago
  The quoted message says: "Sorry about this, but App Store rules say you can’t join age restricted servers on iOS. Please use the desktop app or website to join this server." This does not clarify matters, as both of the following three contradictory statements all agree with it: 1. "Our lawyers informed us that the app store rules prohibit this, and we chose not to discuss or contest our lawyers' interpretation with Apple before proceeding." 2. "Apple both informed us that the app store rules prohibit this, and we chose not to appeal that ruling with Apple before proceeding." 3. "Apple both informed us that the app store rules prohibit this, but we exhausted all avenues of appeal before proceeding." Which is it, Discord?

gfxgirl 6y ago

If Apple was consistent with this I wouldn't mind as much. To be consistent they'd have to ban twitter, reddit, safari, chrome, firefox, Apple's music service, all the other music services, the Podcast app, other podcast apps, iBooks, Amazon reader, and basically every app that lets you access NSFW content. As it is, banning just some means Apple is (a) choosing the winners and (b) being hypocritical