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Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update
- pablovidal85 6y ago[0]Sort of. [0]: https://istheshipstillstuck.com/ https://istheshipstillstuck.com/
- tonny747 6y agoLooks like it has moved slightly https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9811000 https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9811000
- walrus01 6y agoIt does seem that the compass heading of the ship is now closer to parallel with the canal. One of the things I wonder about (this all comes from AIS data), is that I have observed some ships only have accurate compass headings on marinetraffic and vesselfinder for the 'arrow' of direction when they are underway, at 4-5 knots or more, and other ships such as this one show compass headings when they are at a dead stop.
- tastyfreeze 6y agoAIS transmission frequency and message contents are dependent on nav status and speed. Nav status is set by humans. Beyond a certain speed AIS ignores nav status and transmits underway messages at underway frequency. Its been a few years since I've had to read the specs so I dont quite remember the details of what changes in message contents. Im guessing that you are seeing some vessels that havent set an underway nav status.
- dnndev 6y agoIt depends on the source of heading for the AIS device. If using GPS heading then yes, you need to be underway to calculate heading. If the AIS is using ship heading then it should always be available. The AIS spec is mature but unfortunately not much guidance was given for the installation.
- sgtnoodle 6y agoYou can get accurate heading from GPS by placing two receivers far apart from each other. It would be sorta silly to do on a smaller ship, but a big ship would likely have multiple GPS receivers anyway.
- walrus01 6y agoIt would be interesting to try as a DIY project on a small ship, for an electronics experiment... Since high quality GPS+Glonass receivers with the ublock m8n chipset are like $35 a piece now, and have standard UART interfaces on them. You could find a very small IP69 rated enclosure, connect one at the front of the ship to a small arduino with a RS485 link or ethernet back to some electronics in the pilothouse.
- WJW 6y agoIf you do this, do read up on Kalman and/or particle filters to stabilize the output and maybe even add in an IMU module. GNSS sensors have a fair amount of variance from atmospheric disturbances, so their reported position can jump around a fair bit. If you are out of range of DGPS stations you can have errors of 1-2m easily, which could lead to jumps in perceived course of tens of degrees.
- MertsA 6y agoBetter yet, ignore Kalman filtering and read up on RTKLIB. You want moving baseline for this and you need some receivers that will give you raw measurements. Basically if you're trying to measure the distance between two GPS receivers that are relatively close together much of the error will be the same so measuring the delta between them is highly accurate. Here's a guy who did this on a kayak and the accuracy was quite good with only a 3m baseline. https://community.emlid.com/t/using-a-pair-of-reach-units-as-a-gps-compass/2366 https://community.emlid.com/t/using-a-pair-of-reach-units-as... He was post processing the data, but part of RTKLIB is RTKNAVI which is real time and I haven't used it but in theory I'd think RTKNAVI would support moving baseline as well. Post processing should be slightly more accurate as you can use measurements in the future as well but it should still be very accurate real time.
- roelschroeven 6y agoMany ships, and certainly all large oceangoing vessels, transmit both course over ground (direction of motion) and heading (direction the bow is pointed). Sites like MarineTraffic and VesselFinder use the heading to draw the vessels on the map in the correct orientation, but in the vessel details they only display the course over ground as far as I can see. Inland-only vessels don't always have a gyrocompass or GPS compass, or don't have it connected to the AIS transponder, in which cases they only transmit course over ground and not their heading.
- polote 6y agoYou can see it in this video https://mobile.twitter.com/EgyProjects/status/1376407877443813377 https://mobile.twitter.com/EgyProjects/status/13764078774438...
- learningwebdev 6y ago> The breakthrough in the rescue attempt came after diggers removed 27,000 cubic meters of sand, going deep into the banks of the canal. Impressive. That's around 55,000 metric tons of wet sand, or a bit more than the mass of the Titanic.
- liquidify 6y agoIs this due to U.S. military involvement? I remember reading they were sending dredging experts.
- Clewza313 6y agoEven in normal operations the canal is being dredged continually, since it's basically a channel dug into sand that's continually dissolving in the water. Check out the cross sections here: it's much wider and more shallow (gradient up to 4:1) than you might think. https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/About/SuezCanal/Pages/CanalCharacteristics.aspx https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/About/SuezCanal/Pages/C...
- tpmx 6y agoThey have a fleet of ~13 dredgers of different types: https://www.dredgepoint.org/dredging-database/owners/suez-canal-authority-dredging-department https://www.dredgepoint.org/dredging-database/owners/suez-ca...
- Fronzie 6y agoThe Dutch company Smit (part of Boskalis) was hired for this job.
- aryehof 6y agoThis isn’t a Hollywood movie. Another country is actually considered to be the expert in such matters.
- fermienrico 6y ago
- VelNZ 6y agoWow... navigating to this link brings up: 1) 33%-height ad for IBM at the top. 2) 20%-height offer to subscribe on the bottom. 3) Overlay asking for my email address which greys out the article. Scrolling down, there is a autoplay video on the right sidebar along with most read content and ads. The whole page is so bloated it lags my 1 year old MacBook just scrolling down.
- joegahona 6y agoAnd they somehow make the Back button on my browser hit their homepage.
- littlecranky67 6y agoIt is called url history hijacking and a common "dark pattern". There are event websites which will block you to ever coming back to where you started (i.e. when navigating away from hacker news). Thats the issue with modern web apis: Browsers add them with good intent to allow for modern web apps and improve UX, and advertisers abuse it to cripple UX but bring up "engagement" with the website.
- technofiend 6y agoThat is annoying. You can right click the back button of your browser to select the proper history entry and go back to where you came from.
- brundolf 6y agoReader mode is a great thing. It's readily available in Safari and Firefox
- input_sh 6y agoI use it more to avoid wonky font choices that make it inconvenient to read (small text, weird font or spacing).
- fogihujy 6y agoOn the other hand, the site is quite usable with an ad-blocker.
- msravi 6y agoWho picks up the tab for all this (both for the work done to free the ship and the losses by Suez authorities and other ships)? The company operating the ship? The ship owner? The insurance company? Suez authorities?
- wyldfire 6y agoBy default it will likely be the canal authority who was very motivated to recover the functionality of their waterway. They probably spent significant time and money getting the ship unstuck. And they'll likely try to recover it from the shipping company who owned the Evergreen^H^H^H^H^HGiven. But if the canal authority's pilot was at the helm when it ran aground, there's likely to be some difficulty getting the shippers to pay without a court involved. EDIT: ship name was incorrect
- artificial 6y agoEvergreen is the shipping company, Ever Given is the ship. I’ve been enjoying all the memes about this situation and seeing all the ships queued up is wild.
- ornornor 6y agoWhy wouldn’t it be the canals pilot? Doesn’t the canal make it mandatory that one of their pilot control the ship to navigate the canal? If so, and unless this is due to poor maintenance or another cause that’s the result of evergreens actions, I have a hard time imagining the canal authority not being on the hook for the problem they created.
- Gwypaas 6y agoThe master is still responsible for the pilots actions. This can create contention sometimes.
- PhantomGremlin 6y agoWhy wouldn’t it be the canals pilot? Because, if I understand correctly, he had an "impossible" job. The ship was heading north, with a 30 mph wind from the west. Rudder needed to be applied to counter the wind. The wind stopped, the ship got close to the left bank, then hydrodynamic forces caused it to pivot into the right bank. Basically, the ship was far too large for that narrow canal. Everything worked OK under good circumstances, but failed in gusty wind. This accident was inevitable. I also read somewhere that ship was going 13 knots in an area which is supposed to be 8 knots. But maybe that was also necessary because ships need to be moving in order for the rudder to work properly. No motion -> no rudder.
- tchvil 6y agoThis video shows well what work they do. And the wind still pushing. https://twitter.com/EgyProjects/status/1376280699234357248 https://twitter.com/EgyProjects/status/1376280699234357248
- benatkin 6y agoDid Elon Musk offer to help? Could he have made a more credible offer than when he offered to help with the rescue in Thailand or to manufacture ventilators? Has he learned his lesson?
- Blackthorn 6y agoMr. Dunning-Kruger was blessedly silent on this one.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- sillysaurusx 6y agoImpressively, https://istheshipstillstuck.com/ https://istheshipstillstuck.com/ updated with a "Sort of?" which is accurate.
- paxys 6y ago> It has cost us $56 billion What if you add in the value of all the memes it has generated though? Definitely a net positive for the world overall.
- dkdbejwi383 6y agoNot to mention the value of teaching a lesson about single points of failure
- Dylan16807 6y agoWhat lesson is that? Would it have been cheaper to build and maintain two canals? And it's not the end of the world if ships have to go the long way.
- Apocryphon 6y agoInterestingly, there's at least a possibility for a Nicaragua Canal as a redundancy for the Panama Canal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_Canal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_Canal Doubt there's any alternate paths for a Suez Canal.
- riffraff 6y agoyou could cut across the egypt/israel border from the gulf of aqaba. It would be something like ten times the length of Suez, and I think there are mountains in the middle, but it would be pretty cool! :)
- theshrike79 6y ago
- BurnerBotje 6y ago> Later on Monday morning, a second heavy tugboat arrives to pull the ship off completely. In addition, water will be sprayed under the ship with great force to wash away sand and clay. If it is not possible to clear the front of the ship in this way, containers may have to be unloaded from the front of the ship. (Dutch source: https://www.trouw.nl/buitenland/vastgelopen-containerschip-suezkanaal-beweegt-maar-niet-te-vroeg-juichen~b1ffff565/ https://www.trouw.nl/buitenland/vastgelopen-containerschip-s...)
- tda 6y agoI fail to understand why they didn't/don't use the tugboats to wash the water away. Even small boats can cause a lot of scour with their bow thrusters along a vertical quay wall (which the Ever Given is in a way). The erosive power of a 16MW engine is really something to not be underestimated.
- avianlyric 6y agoI imagine it’s a mix of 1. They can’t manoeuvre tugs into the right location due to the aforementioned silt and dirt the Ever Given is stuck on/dug up. 2. Tug bow trusters are difficult to aim. Plus how do you hold them steady? They can only fire in one direction at a time, so you have no ability to create a reaction thrust to prevent the tug from moving. 3. Tug thrusters don’t enjoy ingesting huge amounts silt and earth when they’re operating. Which invariably will happen if they’re close enough to banks to have a useful erosive effect.
- whalesalad 6y agoThere’s been like 2 dudes out there with an excavator for a week. Absolutely nothing about this has made any sense. Based on the amount of revenue lost due to this blockage you’d think every military on the earth would have descended there.
- jacquesm 6y agoThat's just that first image. Meanwhile they've been going at it day and night with 6 long boom excavators at the same time.
- IvanK_net 6y agoInteresting. There are dozens of websites writing about this event, but users of Hacker News upvote the link, where you can not read an article without paying for it.
- dewey 6y agoI can read it and I didn't pay for it. You probably visited the website too many times and it hit the paywall limit.
- clivecusslerad 6y agoTry incognito.
- _joel 6y agoOr bypass paywalls extension
- abhayhegde 6y agoDoes not really work. I think it hides under a different JS banner.
- chrisseaton 6y agoPlease don’t complain about paywalls here - it’s against the guidelines and boring.
- abstractbarista 6y agoIt is? Yikes. If there's a paywall, I just end up reading the comments and never the article. Oh well.
- stordoff 6y agoIt's in the FAQs: > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
- Stratoscope 6y ago> “We need to be realistic and that is that the stem of the ship is still very much stuck” [emphasis added] I am reminded of this website (forgive the profanity): https://fuckyeahkeming.com/ https://fuckyeahkeming.com/ And this ceramic piece: https://geary.smugmug.com/Art/i-qCBqjqb https://geary.smugmug.com/Art/i-qCBqjqb
- jameshart 6y agoHave you never heard the phrase ‘from stem to stern?’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_(ship) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_(ship)
- Stratoscope 6y agoWell now I feel rather foolish. Thank you for enlightening me about this. :-)
- neonate 6y agohttps://archive.md/RL4my https://archive.md/RL4my
- fiftyacorn 6y agoWhat is the risk of rogue waves breaking ships taking the Cape route?
- Denvercoder9 6y agoZero. Those ships are built to be ocean-going.
- fiftyacorn 6y agoOk but I watched a program about this and they said the cost in making it freak wave proof was very high, and the solution was to avoid areas where there are freak waves. The Cape is one of those places
- HeyLaughingBoy 6y agoSame as it always was. Ships take the Cape route every day.
- usrusr 6y agoMy layman's intuition would suggest that once one end is free, it should be possible to "wiggle" the other end out. If they can rotate the hull into a more parallel position, couldn't they rotate it back, repeatedly, with a longitudal vector component in addition to pulling sideways, and pull the other end out a little with every direction change? I'd expect a sandy canal ground to have a quite considerable delta between static and dynamic friction.
- k__ 6y agoWill they build a second one for safety? Maybe through Israel?
- rsstack 6y agoA second, completely separate one, would go through the Sinai peninsula and not Israel. But that's probably not needed: about half of the Suez Canal is dual-lane. It's probably more economic to dig a parallel canal in those single-lane sections than to start a brand new one.
- Tokkemon 6y agoGotta double track the bastard!
- cheaprentalyeti 6y agoOK, everyone, the ship's refloated, yoohoo! Now we can go back to Just In Time inventory, because there's nothing whatsoever that can go wrong now!
- tome 6y agoI seem to recall that as originally conceived in the Toyota Production System, suppliers of Just In Time inventory were supposed to be sited in the same location as you. I wasn't able to find a reference for this though ...
- cptskippy 6y agoWhen I was working with a logistics firm who did JIT for Seagate/Hitachi, the warehouse was across the street from Hitachi and they could handtruck deliver hard drives if need be.
- rtkwe 6y agoEven that probably wouldn’t save you from an event like this if you’re in Europe because your supplier’s supplier (or your supplier’s supplier’s supplier, you get the gist) probably sends things through the Suez.
- Jenk 6y agoYes, JIT inventory meant delivered "from the warehouse to the workstation" and not "intercontinentally shipped with extremely slim margins." But that's not what has happened here. Continually increasing demand (read population growth + geo-conglomeration of industries) has stretched the global supply network(s) to fragility, necessitating JIT in absurd distances and quantities, in turn requiring ships 400mx50m to squeeze through canals they barely clear the bed of at speeds slow enough for them to not cause over-swell but not fast enough for them to have enough thrust to overcome crosswinds.
- ckdarby 6y agoSounds like an opportunity for the country to start on another canal. They'll be able to take advantage of the clear demand, solve the issues of the existing, have a redundancy plan if either canal has an issue or needs repairs and I don't think it'll have a hard time getting support considering everything going on at the moment.
- mensetmanusman 6y agoA great utilization of resonance. I wonder if they installed sensitive vibrational analytics to help understand the optimal frequency for dislodging.
- perryizgr8 6y agoI think they should widen the canal. It is too narrow for the behemoth ships that are going on it now.
- mkoubaa 6y agoWhat good are all the ballistic missiles we're all stockpiling if we can't use them to widen a canal
- gbil 6y agoSeems that is in the canal center now and moving!
- sunsipples 6y agois the solution wider canal or shorter boats?
- nextweek2 6y agoProbably just me but it seemed overall poor reporting on the whole incident. News channels had "experts" basically reading Wikipedia facts. Way too many economist were asked their opinions, which were all prefaced with "it could be". Never once did I see an interview with a container ship captain, civil or marine engineer. Big News these days just seems to be about regurgitating shaky videos from social media.