18 ms·

All my career rejections

228 points by azhenley 6y ago

zabzonk 6y ago
Possibly more interesting if information on acceptances was also provided.
- cabernal 6y ago
  His CV is linked in there.
  - pedrosorio 6y ago
    The CV only contains a subset of all acceptances
    - d33lio 6y ago
      Not to be harsh, but maybe this guy just isn't a good engineer / academic? This is why I switched from EE to CS, I found it far more interesting and could execute doing software stuff at a very high level even with my piss poor academic record. Never do something you're mediocre at, life just isn't going to be a good time if that's your approach. Tbh, if I was this guy I would've just switched industries and done something I was objectively better at. I quit EE because without a doubt I would've been a C-level electrical engineer at best.
      - azhenley 6y ago
        I never thought I was bad at my job and I have equal/higher acceptance rates than my friends, but thanks for the vote of confidence! Rejection is very common in academia and I wish people talked about it more.
        filmgirlcw 6y ago
        Thank you for writing about it! It’s very common in tech too but people don’t talk about that either (though academia is objectively more competitive; you have far fewer tenure-track slots, compared to even a major “elite” tech company that employs over 100,000 people). It’s important for people to see that those who have succeeded have failed too.
      - filmgirlcw 6y ago
        I think that’s pretty harsh. Perhaps he’s not the best SWE candidate at a FAANG or FAANG-like place — but he’s in a tenure-track position at a school that is top 40ish for public universities (averaging both engineering and computer science in undergrad rankings), which is hardly something to “switch industries” over. We do ourselves a major disservice by pretending that only having an academic position at the top five or ten schools or a job at one of the top five or six tech companies is the only way to achieve success.
      - the_only_law 6y ago
        > Never do something you're mediocre at, life just isn't going to be a good time if that's your approach. What happens when you’re mediocre at everything.
- deleted 6y ago
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m33k44 6y ago
The more interesting part of the whole post was this last line: "More rejections to come!" That's the spirit! Never give up :)
davio 6y ago
One of the artists that revitalized part of Kansas City had all of his museum and gallery rejection letters as the wallpaper in his restaurant
- nanidin 6y ago
  Which artist / which restaurant? I’ve got a few hunches, I live in the Crossroads.
  - davio 6y ago
    "Stretch" from Grinders
jdorfman 6y ago
We should all post ours here. I'll start: * Google * Amazon/AWS (interviewed by Jeff Barr and tbh, I was starstruck) * Cloudflare * EdgeCast * Twitter * GitLab * GitHub * Linux Foundation * Wikimedia * DigitalOcean * Snyk
- jibbers 6y ago
  Since I began keeping track, about two years ago, I've applied to 605 jobs, rejected by 328, and the rest didn't even bother to send me a robo-rejection email. Is there any value in posting my list?
daveslash 6y ago
I entered the professional workforce in the fall of 2008, as the recession was in full force. I had a college degree, but no experience or resume of which to speak - and frankly, didn't know very much outside of academia. I was lucky enough to land a job, but was laid off in fall of 2009. I was poor, sleeping on an air mattress, and in my early 20s, but determined to get a job as a software engineer, even if it meant taking a non software job for a while. This was before I knew that job-recruiters were a thing, or how to make connections with them, and before Linked-In had taken off. I made sure to apply for 10 jobs online, by going to companies "apply" pages, every-singly-day. I did this for two full months (weekends excluded). That's 400 applications. I only got 5 interviews, and only 1 job offer. That's 399 rejections. I'm doing well now - but those were rough times for me. When my teenager feels rejected (e.g. not making the team), I always tell them that rejection is always a bummer, but not the end of the world. And I gently remind them of that story as a way of saying *"trust me, I'm not saying that as empty words; I do understand how it feels."
- deleted 6y ago
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- a_brawling_boo 6y ago
  That is so similar to what happened to me, only I had graduated December 2006. So I had 1.5 years until it went south and got laid off. Luckily I had acquired a condo in that time at the market peak, so I had a place to lay awake at night and worry about how I'd pay the mortgage.
  - tmnstr85 6y ago
    This right here is the goods... only thing that would make this better is if it was a variable interest mortgage
    - a_brawling_boo 6y ago
      80/20. Everyone, parents, agents, closing lawyers all told me I was making the best decision of my life. All were saying they wished they could go back in time and buy a house when they were 24. Ended up taking a 30k bath on it 5 years later.
codezero 6y ago
Interesting to see the differences in people. I've had a long career with very few rejections, but it has a lot to do with the fact that I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I am definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's generally been true. That said, I encourage folks on my team to interview regularly just to know how to value themselves and to see that there are other opportunities, and to just get practice interviewing and learning how other companies run the process. My rejections: - laid off from Red Hat post dot-bomb (I wasn't really trying to stay at the time) ~ 2003 - rejected for a sysadmin position at Blizzard in around 2003 or 4? - rejected from a lot of PhD programs in Physics (I wasn't really trying that hard, see a theme, it's called cognitive dissonance!) ~ 2008 - fired from Quora (honestly really just ended up misaligned with my boss and career goals, they made the right call) ~ 2014 - rejected from Stripe with two personal referrals after the last stage of the interview. I was pretty bummed by this and had spent a month putting all my eggs in one basket to work there. This was 2014 so I also missed out on a nice bit of stock to be honest! At my current company I feel like I finally had enough continuity to specialize a bit and become an expert in a field to feel comfortable with what ever may come next. I hope others can find that in their careers too.
- foobarian 6y ago
  It looks like it's pretty common to go interview just to "keep the skills sharp." What do folks think of this practice? I feel like I would have a hard time doing it while hiding my true motives. And what if they make an offer?
  - safog 6y ago
    I think practice interviews are a thing but people generally do it only when they're actively in the process of moving jobs. e.g., I want a job at Facebook, so I'm going to go interview at some random startups first for sharpness. I haven't heard of anyone actually taking that advice literally and just randomly giving out interviews even when they have no intention of actually moving from their jobs.
  - johnmaguire 6y ago
    I've always wondered about this too - I feel like I am wasting their time. > And what if they make an offer? I guess you choose whether to accept it or not. An offer does not oblige you to accept.
makach 6y ago
The essence of this article is wonderful! I've been rejected quite a few times as well. This is in fact so inspiring that I will apply for another job that I most likely will be rejected from as well. You cannot win if you don't play the game.
plank_time 6y ago
I’ve been rejected 5 times from Google. And yet every year like clockwork they email me again asking to interview. At this point I just say yes every couple of years and try again because why not. I think I do well enough to deserve a call-back but never good enough to get hired (I made it to the hiring committee though).
- deleted 6y ago
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- cweill 6y ago
  I got rejected twice, and got an offer on my third try over the course of 3 years. If it's something your really want, don't give up. Also see the "interview anti-loop" http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-google.html?m=1 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-goog...
  - deleted 6y ago
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- Spooky23 6y ago
  I’ve had that happen a couple of times. Do a video/phone call with an SME that goes really well... then it doesn’t. The second time they were locking down a time I could fly somewhere and the whole thing went poof. Fortunately I was in a good job and it was no big deal, but it would have been very stressful if I was between gigs.
- throwawaypqr123 6y ago
  Throwaway because reasons. I "failed" my first four (edit: onsite) FANG interviews. 5th time was a charm, have been happily employed with a senior title at FANG for a couple years. Not exactly new information to HN, but the job itself is quite a bit easier than the interviews (wrt to technical knowledge). It can be just as stressful though (I actually think stress response / teamwork is one of the main things FANG interviewers are looking for after a certain bar of technical competence is met, YMMV). This isn't for everyone, but if it's something you really want to do, don't let the rejections get you down. You'll get in eventually :)
decafninja 6y ago
Just got off a FB phone screen which I think I failed. Only got through one question, and even that required assistance from the interviewer. My understanding is that if you don't finish two problems, you're doomed. Spent the past week basically taking time off from work to do leetcode problems nonstop. Too bad it didn't help. Third time failing at FB. First time failed the phone screen in 2018. Passed phone screen last year but bombed the onsite. And now failed the third time on the phone screen. Also failed at Amazon (onsite), Netflix (twice - once on the phonescreen, once on the onsite), Uber (twice phonescreen), Microsoft (onsite). Got offers from Credit Karma and WeWork...how I dearly wish those offers were from any of the other companies I had failed at... Needless to say, I feel horrible.
- goatinaboat 6y ago
  Third time failing at FB. First time failed the phone screen in 2018. Passed phone screen last year but bombed the onsite. And now failed the third time on the phone screen. Being rejected by Facebook in 2021 is probably a good thing
  - decafninja 6y ago
    Truth is, I am not as enamored about the company as I was before, and that's what I tell myself, but it's still sour grapes syndrome. It would still be an astronomical step up for me careerwise. I would literally throw away my senior SWE status to join any of the aforementioned companies as a junior SWE level.
    - bluefirebrand 6y ago
      > I would literally throw away my senior SWE status to join any of the aforementioned companies as a junior SWE level. Sorry to say it but if I was a hiring manager and saw someone with senior experience applying for junior positions that's a red flag to me and I would be thinking they probably have big confidence problems.
      - decafninja 6y ago
gsibble 6y ago
As a serial entrepreneur who has raised money a bunch of times, I have absolutely lost count of how many angels and VCs have rejected the companies I've worked for (or founded) and been a part of the process with. Now they just roll off my back. Odd though how in other areas of life, rejections seem much more personal. I suppose there is a difference between a professional rejection vs a personal one.
inertiatic 6y ago
The article/blog post itself seems a bit pointless, minimal content and comes along as more of a humble brag. However I guess it triggers discussion so it's not without value entirely. I have experienced countless rejections. Tens to hundreds every time I switch jobs. After just a few of these, you realize no one knows how to hire and just laugh at the absurdity of this profession.
- nautilus12 6y ago
  Ooohh you sound like you could out humble brag them. Humble brag off!
- alexashka 6y ago
  It has that 'if I can do it, you can too' that people who don't know how the world works but base their life around what other people are doing/saying absolutely love, because it gives them hope. The more people sharing 'started from the bottom now we here' without mentioning the likelihood of it happening, the more people love it. Delusional, yet simple self serving beliefs have a snowball effect without fail - I'd wager Western culture is almost entirely made up of them at this point, which has some interesting consequences.
- gwbas1c 6y ago
  > The article/blog post itself seems a bit pointless Pointless? No. I'm sure it's reassuring to anyone who doesn't understand the high amount of rejections when looking for a job.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    They did not list a high number of rejections though. Reading through it my first thought was “That’s all? What a weird flex!” In my maybe 20 year career I’ve probably been rejected hundreds of times. So much of tech interviewing is spraying and praying, and everyone is so picky. I’ve been rejected more than five times at a few distinct companies! The author listed shockingly few, unless he’s just giving us the highlight reel.
revskill 6y ago
Good love to see more details on the Why rejects from them.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  Good luck getting the truth out of any company about why they rejected a candidate.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jbluepolarbear 6y ago
I’ve had a lot of rejections in my career and I have learned that the best advantage I have that I can bring to an interview is my conversation skills. I may not be as good as another engineer on paper, but if I can get an interview that usually changes.
rapfaria 6y ago
I get it, and I think we've all been hurt. But why keep this list? I remember when I had a stellar year at a big corp. My manager said `nothing bad to report, wow`. I was ready for that S - a Special automatically meant a promotion. A few weeks later, when the whole R&D got the performance letter, I received mine with a C. D usually meant `demitido`, or fired in portuguese. I couldn't believe it, and I kept that letter through many years, just as a reminder of how you can get screwed by things that are not in your power. A few years later, when I saw the letter, I had a much better job, and was much happier. No good could come from seeing that letter from time to time, so I threw it away. As long as these things are living in your life, they are consuming you. The sooner you let them go, the sooner you'll be free
- StephenAshmore 6y ago
  There are many people that have a fear of rejection. A list like this helps to illustrate that it is okay to be rejected. You can be both successful, and have failed to nail an interview. The list seems purposely devised to help those who have that sort of problem, not as a list to remind him of his failures.
  - rapfaria 6y ago
    Agreed, it can help others.
    - shortandsweet 6y ago
      I actually agree with both of you, if that's possible.
- throwmeaway_66 6y ago
  This is a very good comment. The fetishization of "failure" is a quite recent phenomenon that like many other communication workflows of the modern time has the implicit or explicit goals of making someone understood, commiserated, seen as naturally strong or "yes, I cried, but look how much stronger I am". A total waste of energy that to my eyes looks weak and entitled. Like when you read on, say, Twitter "my biology professor told me I had no chances of finishing high school, but now I have a PhD in molecular biology" - assuming it is true (and I many times doubt it is the whole story), are you really holding a grudge against a nobody in your life who said some words 15 years ago? And that's why I use "failure" in quotes here and I never use the word in my life, except in some very specific contexts (e.g., machine failure). Anybody with ambitions in their lives gets rejected, dismissed and have things that don't work even if they cry in High Valyrian. Forget, move on, live large, not small.
slk500 6y ago
interesting, but better to keep that list for yourself
- azhenley 6y ago
  Why? It would have helped me a lot when I was younger if more “successful” people shared this info.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
filmgirlcw 6y ago
I’m not going to rattle off my own career rejection list (though I’ve definitely done in in talks I’ve given aimed at people about to graduate from college), but I really appreciate this post. I don’t work in academia, but I know enough people that do to know how rare it is to be open about what is a very rejection-heavy industry, and I commend the author for putting that out there!
- zhdc1 6y ago
  Very rejection-heavy is saying it lightly.
colmvp 6y ago
I had to accept a huge volume of rejection, both doing in job applications (hundreds of applications) and online dating (thousands). All the while being alone during Covid-19. My advice to those who might be reading is to find a mentor or best friend who you can update on your progress on a semi-regular basis. Those people helped me so much to remain positive and upbeat during the really disappointing moments of 2020. They can also give feedback on your approaches. The other tip is to accept it's going to feel terrible, but to let the disappointment that you feel flow through you to help move on.
ArtWomb 6y ago
Very interesting that your focus is "IDE research". Not sure I've encountered that before! One reason for the rejections may be that in industry, from what I've seen, dev and cloud tools are managed by more "soft skills" people. Masters in Psychology types may be more the candidate they seek. I suppose the thinking is that to gain mass adoption they have to be less engineer designed and more user friendly ;)
yosito 6y ago
This is a very short list of rejections. In my opinion, anyone who wants to have a successful career these days ought to expect at least an order of magnitude more rejections than this over the course of their career.
eyelidlessness 6y ago
I’ve been incredibly fortunate to have few rejections in my career. Off the top of my head: - Google (the feeling was mutual) - GitHub, if you count no response as a rejection - I likely would have been rejected by Microsoft, but I ended the interview early That said, I’ve been even more fortunate to have established great working relationships with peers, mentors and mentees, which has helped me get all but my first job and the one I’m likely to start next. In a sense, the amount of nepotism in the industry is probably a barrier to many, which I’m sensitive to. But these working relationships aren’t the only way to establish good connections. I’ve seen people do very well by just attending meetups related to some aspect of the industry they find interesting. That’s still a barrier for people who don’t have the time to devote (or wait), but for anyone who does have the time and wants to improve their prospects I highly encourage giving it a try.
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  > but I ended the interview early I wish I had the balls to do that. I mean sometimes u just know you bombed and there's no going back, like 30 minutes into a bad date. You just know. Yet there I am going through the whole 1.5 hours sweating it. Why not just say : Hey guy, thanks for the opportunity. I think we both know this isn't going well for me, good luck! Actually this can work for bad dates as well!
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    For what it’s worth, I wish I had walked out on Google. That was definitely one where I knew I wouldn’t be happy on the job. And I wish I’d stuck it out with MS, at least as a courtesy. Even if I would ultimately have been rejected. I was mostly just disappointed in the particular interview style. I got to the last interview in the loop, by the team’s lead, and asked if he had any intention to have me do an exercise relevant to the (frontend) job or if it would be 4 straight algorithm/data structure exercises. He said the latter, and that’s when I walked.
gnarbarian 6y ago
Success may only come once out of every 100 times you try. So you better get over failing and iterate quickly if you want to make it. Fail fast so you can move on. Interviewing is a skill just like talking to women. you need practice before you will succeed. And practice necessarily means rejection. People who are afraid to fail will never succeed. They put too much weight on a particular thing and then are crushed when it doesn't pan out. You have to get to the point where rejection and failure don't hurt. Just add another data point to your corpus of life experience. Then magically you start to succeed and your success will snowball.
- Noumenon72 6y ago
  This is such a hostile system. It keeps the market from clearing, both for jobs and for women. No wonder people drop out and play video games. I eventually got pushed past the fear of rejection when my failure-free factory job went sour, but my successful career since then shows it was a waste to put so much rejection in my way. The real world is Nintendo-hard, and that sucks.
andyxor 6y ago
50 times? those are rookie numbers in this racket
gabereiser 6y ago
I like this. Simply because we don't emphasize our failures yet we should, to learn from, etc etc. I've worked at over a dozen software companies big and small over my 20 years+ career yet I've gotten rejections about 50x more than I get offers. Like sales, it's a numbers game. The best jobs I ever had was working with folks I've worked with before or where there was really strong culture fit. Sometimes it's not your achievements but your personality, your goals, who you are that they reject. Keep going.
jvanderbot 6y ago
I wonder if I copied this website style at some point. Mines identical.
rramadass 6y ago
I wouldn't do this and keep it around. We have all had rejections, particularly in these highly competitive times but the trick is to forget about them after doing a quick postmortem and learning any lessons. The reason is that psychologically we are wired to focus on the negatives and ruminate endlessly on it leading to self-doubt and a sapping of self-confidence. This is absolutely not good for long-term psychological growth and by extension, your life. There is also the fact that "recruiting" methods are pseudo-scientific and do not reflect the candidate's ability (outside of very narrow specialized fields) at all. People also tend to make biased snap judgements if you display your failures/faults rather openly. Always project your strengths and don't advertise your faults. PS: Read The Pocket Oracle and Art of Prudence by Baltasar Gracian trans. by Jeremy Robbins (aka The Art of Worldly Wisdom) for some pragmatic approach to life.
- nyanpasu64 6y ago
  Am I supposed to forget that the vast majority of companies find me unhireable?
  - rramadass 6y ago
    In a sense, yes. The trick is to analyze the event (i.e. the attempt and the failure) to learn lessons for improvement and not allow it to be a reflection and definition of you. Are you applying for the wrong type of jobs, are you preparing for the interview properly, how do you distinguish yourself from the crowd, are your expectations too high, are you willing to settle for lower pay, are you networking properly etc. etc. are all parameters which you can tune to give yourself an edge. You have to learn to "Hustle" (not meant in a pejorative way).
    - minhaz23 6y ago
      Tips to distinguish from the crowd?
      - rramadass 6y ago
        Do a google search for "how to stand out from the crowd in the job market". Among the ones which came up https://www.job-hunt.org/ https://www.job-hunt.org/ , https://www.job-hunt.org/job-search-navigation/job-search-navigation.shtml https://www.job-hunt.org/job-search-navigation/job-search-na... seem more relevant. You have to work on your ability, specialize in something and advertise it strongly. There is something i call "increasing the surface area of your luck". It is not enough to just know a language/framework/tool/etc. but you need to go "under the hood" which a "normal" engineer would not bother about eg. knowing how to write multithreaded code but not knowing how SMPs/Caches/Memory Barriers etc. work is not good. You also need to phrase your CV in such a manner (i.e. not a simple list of what you know/done) that you grab the reader's attention eg. instead of saying "i am a experienced C++ programmer" say something like "C++ multi-paradigm programmer with the ability to span all levels of abstraction". Finally, you will be surprised what wonders engaging persistently with Recruiters/Companies/Clients can get you i.e. don't take an initial "no" for a final answer.
throw_away98321 6y ago
I find the amount of rejections "most" have to experience before landing a decent job somewhere, to be soul crushing and when life can already be very depressing. It would be nice if one's ability was easily measured by a history of completions and then graded. It would also be nice if life wasn't so competitive for surviving and for not ending up homeless. I pity the young generation that doesn't have real family that supports them until they make it somewhere.
SMAAART 6y ago
Thank you for your service; I wish you a lot more failures on your way to push the envelope in the space between fear and panic.
throwaway892398 6y ago
I've been accepted to most of the positions I've applied mainly because I avoided FAANG companies for fear of rejection. I was getting regular emails from their recruiters but just kept deleting them. One day I just decided to reply to the Google recruiter. I stupidly set up the interview ASAP at a time when I was out of the country with no computer or internet. So I went into the interview with zero prep. It was a disaster. That experience made me once again ignore FAANG recruiters for a while until I was pressured by a friend to apply at Amazon. I crammed hard for that. I thought I aced all the on site interviews with optimal solutions and stupidly told my folks that I likely got the job (bad idea!). I didn't. Finally took a stab at some tier 2 companies in NYC and was rejected by all. Some were really close others were just bad timing (WeWork during IPO fiasco). I'm still chugging along working at some company with no name recognition. Yeah it sucks that all my peers work at FAANG and don't understand why I'm not trying to work at a more prominent company. Honestly it worked out better. I have a minimal commute, a decent home in an area with great schools, comp comparable to FAANG, and finally my work has a much greater impact at my company.
- kazamaloo 6y ago
  fwiw, there is substantial randomness in the process (worked at two of FAANG myself). Try to do mock interviews with your friends if it helps. You may be showing patterns that you think is correct, but actually quite the opposite (this is what happened with me).
- redisman 6y ago
  The FAANG interview is hard dude. I feel like I could maybe get in if I took a 6 month study break for it which is totally unrealistic. I tried a few times at the top 10 companies (except ones I consider immoral) and even got pretty far at some (onsites that went decently) but I'm pretty happy at medium sized later stage startups doing my 9-5. It's not like working for the highest market cap company in the US is going to give your life any more meaning.
  - joelbluminator 6y ago
    Good comment. There won't be any more meaning, arguably there would be less meaning in FAANG (I mean where will u have more impact: a 50-200 people team or a 100000 team?). The FAANG compensation though is simply insane and just having it on your resume is huge for one's career, that's why everyone wants it. But u can have a very nice career without working there, I mean most of us don't work there.
120bits 6y ago
I did something similar last year after getting rejected by FAANGs and few more other tech companies. - Google rejected 3 times. - Facebook 2 times. - Amazon(AWS) 1 times. - Adobe 1 Times. - Twitter, Github, stripe and others won't even consider me good enough for an interview. - Dozens others companies, who do FAANG style interviewing. I fear rejections, no matter how much I "try" to act normal. I was looking forward to working on some new projects and with talented team members, I never got that opportunity and its heart breaking. I been working on solving leetcode problems. But sometimes can't even solve Easy problems and its just so demotivating. Specially, when I get an automated rejection response without any additional feedback. I have realized that maybe I'm not a rockstar coder that can come up with high performance code. I'm ok, I can figure shit out! and I think that's fine. BTW actual feedback from an technical interview, "I would encourage XXX to use some coding challenge practice websites to become comfortable with producing quick working code segments which would help him feel comfortable and produce code quickly in future interviews." Unbelievable!
- echelon 6y ago
  Not a critique, just an observation. I could be totally wrong. > I would encourage XXX to use some coding challenge practice websites to become comfortable with producing quick working code segments contrasts with > I have realized that maybe I'm not a rockstar coder that can come up with high performance code. What's your analytical process like? Do you take a moment to sit back and just think? Don't dive directly into the code. My most successful candidates spend five to ten minutes thinking about my problem and talking themselves through it before writing any real code. They'll sometimes take notes with class diagrams or ASCII diagrams. You don't have to have an optimal solution first.
  - 120bits 6y ago
    Good question. It seems I lack speed implementing an optimal solution. During my initial FAANG interviews, I have had gone totally blank on my thought process and code. After few interviews, I don't actually dive in coding. I spend at least 10minutes about the problem and explain how it can be solved. I have realized that the interviewer is not looking an optimal solution at first. However, they're not satisfied with till the optimal code solution actually works.
TrackerFF 6y ago
I've worked with people that were rejected 3-4 times from the same place, before finally getting a job there. Getting rejected doesn't necessarily mean "No, we will never want you around here. Do not apply" though it might feel that way. Sometimes there are just too many (great) applicants to choose from. But who knows, that pick could be you.
confidantlake 6y ago
That list looks tiny. Have failed 10 interviews this year alone.
- redisman 6y ago
  Yeah it is tiny. I just sent more than 10 applications during the holidays for fun with two failed onsites and maybe a third to show for it.
rd07 6y ago
I have been working professionally for 3+ years in a single company. I've been lucky to have got this job without a test nor interview ( I was an intern there, and they offered me the job before my intern period was up). Recently, I feel bored there and tried to apply to another company. Currently, I am in the last stage of the test and it seems I will be able to pass it. But, I feel nervous to actually change my job, because this will be my first time changing workplace, and I don't know if I will actually be accepted there (there is a probation period of 3 months). Reading this thread makes me re-realize that changing jobs was not an unusual thing. Thank you for sharing this.
- beforeolives 6y ago
  > I don't know if I will actually be accepted there (there is a probation period of 3 months). Depending on where you live 3-6 month probation periods can be completely standard. If you get the job, you are accepted there. The probation period is just a window in which you and the company can separate with less friction. In most places it's a formality that you shouldn't worry about unless you're extremely underperforming or doing something egregious at work.
  - lmm 6y ago
    Or your manager arbitrarily decides they don't like you (particularly in startup-like environments with limited process). It shouldn't happen, but it does.
    - rd07 6y ago
      My friend who has wider experiences changing jobs than me also said the same thing as your comment and its parent. Workplace politics is a real thing.
      - etripe 6y ago
        Not only is it a real thing, at some workplaces it's the main event.
  - 6y ago
amir734jj 6y ago
Kind of unrelated but I just accepted a software developer position at Microsoft (Redmond). Any advice? I previously failed twice at Amazon and promised myself to never ever do another excruciating Amazon interview. My interview at Microsoft was super nice surprisingly, questions were difficult but not as tricky as Amazon.
sumanthvepa 6y ago
It works both ways. I've had jobs at FAANG and rejected an offer from a FAANG as well. I'm not that impressed with FAANGs anymore. I think one grows out of the need for validation after while. It's just business. I see interviewing largely as a sales function. Winning a sale with a prospect is a game of numbers. Of course your product (i.e. your skill set and track record) matters but there are many other confounding variables you have no control over. So stressing about any one job rejection is a bad idea. particularly when conversion rates are very low.
dijit 6y ago
Here’s a weird anecdote. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten a job I applied for (with the exception of my current job which I suspect was tailored for me and a colleague.) Nearly every job offer I ever got I was reached out to by a recruiter. It seems like, if I apply, I get blacklisted, but if I don’t apply a recruiter reaches out later and I often end up with an offer. This has happened with small and large companies. Sometimes even the same job but after a year or so. (Apple, most notably). Does anyone else have similar experience?
- c-c-c-c-c 6y ago
  How do the recruiters find you on the internet?
  - lukaszkups 6y ago
    I bet it's Xing or Linkedin?
  - dijit 6y ago
    Linkedin, mostly.
- anontechworker 6y ago
  I’m in the same boat. I’ve never directly applied to the 3 jobs (including a FAANG) that I’ve taken in Silicon Valley. One found me on angel list and the others LinkedIn or direct email. Similar to you, the places I did apply to would never respond, even with referrals in some cases.
legerdemain 6y ago
Impira? The tiny startup led by a bushy-tailed twenty-something CEO? Why would the author apply there?! Did Impira even exist in 2013? And... Kite? The Python refactoring plugin that's always mired in low-grade controversy and barely has any funding? Sure, interviews are a crapshoot, but... why?!
viach 6y ago
What's the deal? I can easily beat your results just sending my CV to all your list +1 random company.
simonebrunozzi 6y ago
Interesting blog post; a far more interesting aspect, for me and my personal career at least, is the companies and interviews where the company did a really poor job and essentially wasted my time and/or pissed me off. Without naming names, here's a couple of examples: 1) FAANG company: interviewed and received offers at two distinct times, which I rejected. Both offers where missing exactly what I had asked at the beginning of the interview cycle (salary was lower than my current; seniority level wasn't what I expected). Third cycle of interviews, years later - rejected because they thought I didn't have enough experience in that specific role (been doing it very successfully for 8+ years at that point). Close friends in the industry couldn't believe it. 2) fast-growing startup: first interview with CMO, hoping to get a CTO-like, executive position (not to brag but please trust me that I abundantly had all the necessary skills and experience). Then I get to an interview with a very junior lady. After 30 minutes in the interview, I realize that something is wrong. I ask her if this is intended to be an interview for a job where I would report to her... Someone just fresh out of college, with a couple of years of working experience in a non-relevant field/company. WTF. 3) Three very, very successful YC companies: applying for a job and not even receiving an opportunity to interview, despite the obvious good match between my profile and the job itself. 4) Flew to an interview with company in Silicon Valley (soon to be acquired by FAANG-like), on my own dime, from another state in the US (domestic flight, a couple hundred bucks, took an entire day off for that). The motherf-er who was supposed to interview me didn't even show up, and never apologized. Please, don't read the above as me being arrogant or have too high an opinion of my skills or my profile (you're still free to think so); these were really situations where it was far too obvious that the company and/or the interviewer didn't have any idea of what they were doing, or did a really poor job at handling the job process. In fact, I also had my fair share of situations where I was rejected, etc, in which I happily admitted to myself that the company didn't do anything wrong, and that perhaps I wasn't a good match there after all. I can easily think of a few more situations like the above. These things used to piss me off so much. Now, in hindsight, I see these as ways in which I have learned more about the IT industry, and how appearances often don't match reality. Not at cool startups; not at FAANG-like companies.
- mr_gibbins 6y ago
  Often I remind myself that interviews are a two-way street - companies forget this, to their detriment. You are there to impress them, but they are also there to impress you - do you want to spend the next few years with them? Companies who forget this by putting obstacles in the way - e.g. several, progressively more absurd, interview cycles, arbitrary whiteboard examinations and so on simply put off the most qualified and experienced. Worst interview question I ever had? 'What is your opinion of the actor Kevin Bacon?'. What, are we in primary school? I thanked them for their time and ended the interview early.
vorhemus 6y ago
What amazes me every time I read articles like this is that some companies are apparently so afraid of hiring the wrong people because that's costly - and at the same time they don't mind throwing abandoned projects that did cost millions of dollars on the graveyard every month.
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  Great comment. In fact, in a country like the U.S where it's so easy to fire people I don't see what the big deal is.
the_arun 6y ago
IMHO - Give me a coding exercise that is needed for a day-to-day life in the target job, I would take it & no hard feelings if I fail. I do not believe Google/Facebook engineers are solving Binary tree problems everyday. Future is all about ML models generating code for you. So you may not even program in the future. What we need is creative intelligence or common sense that you apply for a given situation. Everything sounds very hypothetical though :)
lenwood 6y ago
Very interesting. I think anyone with ambition has been rejected and its interesting to see how much OP is putting themselves out there. I chose to keep a list of all of the times I or my work has been recognized. I guess it comes down to what motivates you, but I'd rather not dwell on the times I've been rejected.
MH15 6y ago
This does seem to be a very short list of rejections from my perspective as a current CS student at a decent state university in the US. During applications season in the fall it's not uncommon for my peers to apply to between 20 and 100 job postings. This tracks for students seeking internships and those seeking full-time employment. This past year I applied to less jobs than I ever have and still applied to 16 postings (all of which I was reasonably qualified for, no FAANG) before landing my current internship. The year prior I applied to far, far more.
crazyideaman 6y ago
Funniest rejection I've gotten: I once applied to mid-size company and during the phone screen helped them understand the role they wanted/needed was actually a senior program manager position. They later contacted me to thank me for helping them understand the role they needed to interview for. They adjusted the listing but said that they would not be bringing me in for an interview...
mbrodersen 6y ago
Reading the post and comments I realise that I have been very lucky so far in my 25+ year career. It’s good and humbling to see how hard it can be in general.
webyacusa 6y ago
I don't want to sound like I am looking for pity here, but at what point, is it OK to give up? My first fail was back at 2009, a full interview cycle with Microsoft. After I was rejected by AWS a few weeks ago (also a full cycle interview, no offer), I realize that I have spent a decade, on and off, trying to get employed by big tech. Since I am not getting any younger, spent countless hours preparing, reading and re-reading Cracking The Code Interview, and I don't feel like I am getting any better or closer, I am looking for some closure. I believe perseverance is an important quality, but also, I don't want to spend another decade through all this. I have been always employed, in not so sexy corporations, but I have earned a living, raised my son, and supported my family, that still lives in a third world country, and without my support they would had been homeless years ago. Sometimes I feel like my efforts were more of an ego trip, just to show off how smart I am, that I was hired by Google. And that's where I am right now. I am unsure how to feel.

228 points by azhenley 6y ago

zabzonk 6y ago

Possibly more interesting if information on acceptances was also provided.

cabernal 6y ago
His CV is linked in there.
- pedrosorio 6y ago
  The CV only contains a subset of all acceptances
  - d33lio 6y ago
    Not to be harsh, but maybe this guy just isn't a good engineer / academic? This is why I switched from EE to CS, I found it far more interesting and could execute doing software stuff at a very high level even with my piss poor academic record. Never do something you're mediocre at, life just isn't going to be a good time if that's your approach. Tbh, if I was this guy I would've just switched industries and done something I was objectively better at. I quit EE because without a doubt I would've been a C-level electrical engineer at best.
    - azhenley 6y ago
      I never thought I was bad at my job and I have equal/higher acceptance rates than my friends, but thanks for the vote of confidence! Rejection is very common in academia and I wish people talked about it more.
      - filmgirlcw 6y ago
        Thank you for writing about it! It’s very common in tech too but people don’t talk about that either (though academia is objectively more competitive; you have far fewer tenure-track slots, compared to even a major “elite” tech company that employs over 100,000 people). It’s important for people to see that those who have succeeded have failed too.
    - filmgirlcw 6y ago
      I think that’s pretty harsh. Perhaps he’s not the best SWE candidate at a FAANG or FAANG-like place — but he’s in a tenure-track position at a school that is top 40ish for public universities (averaging both engineering and computer science in undergrad rankings), which is hardly something to “switch industries” over. We do ourselves a major disservice by pretending that only having an academic position at the top five or ten schools or a job at one of the top five or six tech companies is the only way to achieve success.
    - the_only_law 6y ago
      > Never do something you're mediocre at, life just isn't going to be a good time if that's your approach. What happens when you’re mediocre at everything.
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m33k44 6y ago

The more interesting part of the whole post was this last line: "More rejections to come!" That's the spirit! Never give up :)

davio 6y ago

One of the artists that revitalized part of Kansas City had all of his museum and gallery rejection letters as the wallpaper in his restaurant

nanidin 6y ago
Which artist / which restaurant? I’ve got a few hunches, I live in the Crossroads.
- davio 6y ago
  "Stretch" from Grinders

jdorfman 6y ago

We should all post ours here. I'll start: * Google * Amazon/AWS (interviewed by Jeff Barr and tbh, I was starstruck) * Cloudflare * EdgeCast * Twitter * GitLab * GitHub * Linux Foundation * Wikimedia * DigitalOcean * Snyk

jibbers 6y ago
Since I began keeping track, about two years ago, I've applied to 605 jobs, rejected by 328, and the rest didn't even bother to send me a robo-rejection email. Is there any value in posting my list?

daveslash 6y ago

I entered the professional workforce in the fall of 2008, as the recession was in full force. I had a college degree, but no experience or resume of which to speak - and frankly, didn't know very much outside of academia. I was lucky enough to land a job, but was laid off in fall of 2009. I was poor, sleeping on an air mattress, and in my early 20s, but determined to get a job as a software engineer, even if it meant taking a non software job for a while. This was before I knew that job-recruiters were a thing, or how to make connections with them, and before Linked-In had taken off. I made sure to apply for 10 jobs online, by going to companies "apply" pages, every-singly-day. I did this for two full months (weekends excluded). That's 400 applications. I only got 5 interviews, and only 1 job offer. That's 399 rejections. I'm doing well now - but those were rough times for me. When my teenager feels rejected (e.g. not making the team), I always tell them that rejection is always a bummer, but not the end of the world. And I gently remind them of that story as a way of saying *"trust me, I'm not saying that as empty words; I do understand how it feels."

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a_brawling_boo 6y ago
That is so similar to what happened to me, only I had graduated December 2006. So I had 1.5 years until it went south and got laid off. Luckily I had acquired a condo in that time at the market peak, so I had a place to lay awake at night and worry about how I'd pay the mortgage.
- tmnstr85 6y ago
  This right here is the goods... only thing that would make this better is if it was a variable interest mortgage
  - a_brawling_boo 6y ago
    80/20. Everyone, parents, agents, closing lawyers all told me I was making the best decision of my life. All were saying they wished they could go back in time and buy a house when they were 24. Ended up taking a 30k bath on it 5 years later.

codezero 6y ago

Interesting to see the differences in people. I've had a long career with very few rejections, but it has a lot to do with the fact that I don't apply to places unless I am really confident I am definitely going to be the best candidate, and that's generally been true. That said, I encourage folks on my team to interview regularly just to know how to value themselves and to see that there are other opportunities, and to just get practice interviewing and learning how other companies run the process. My rejections: - laid off from Red Hat post dot-bomb (I wasn't really trying to stay at the time) ~ 2003 - rejected for a sysadmin position at Blizzard in around 2003 or 4? - rejected from a lot of PhD programs in Physics (I wasn't really trying that hard, see a theme, it's called cognitive dissonance!) ~ 2008 - fired from Quora (honestly really just ended up misaligned with my boss and career goals, they made the right call) ~ 2014 - rejected from Stripe with two personal referrals after the last stage of the interview. I was pretty bummed by this and had spent a month putting all my eggs in one basket to work there. This was 2014 so I also missed out on a nice bit of stock to be honest! At my current company I feel like I finally had enough continuity to specialize a bit and become an expert in a field to feel comfortable with what ever may come next. I hope others can find that in their careers too.

foobarian 6y ago
It looks like it's pretty common to go interview just to "keep the skills sharp." What do folks think of this practice? I feel like I would have a hard time doing it while hiding my true motives. And what if they make an offer?
- safog 6y ago
  I think practice interviews are a thing but people generally do it only when they're actively in the process of moving jobs. e.g., I want a job at Facebook, so I'm going to go interview at some random startups first for sharpness. I haven't heard of anyone actually taking that advice literally and just randomly giving out interviews even when they have no intention of actually moving from their jobs.
- johnmaguire 6y ago
  I've always wondered about this too - I feel like I am wasting their time. > And what if they make an offer? I guess you choose whether to accept it or not. An offer does not oblige you to accept.

makach 6y ago

The essence of this article is wonderful! I've been rejected quite a few times as well. This is in fact so inspiring that I will apply for another job that I most likely will be rejected from as well. You cannot win if you don't play the game.

plank_time 6y ago

I’ve been rejected 5 times from Google. And yet every year like clockwork they email me again asking to interview. At this point I just say yes every couple of years and try again because why not. I think I do well enough to deserve a call-back but never good enough to get hired (I made it to the hiring committee though).

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cweill 6y ago
I got rejected twice, and got an offer on my third try over the course of 3 years. If it's something your really want, don't give up. Also see the "interview anti-loop" http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-google.html?m=1 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-goog...
- deleted 6y ago
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Spooky23 6y ago
I’ve had that happen a couple of times. Do a video/phone call with an SME that goes really well... then it doesn’t. The second time they were locking down a time I could fly somewhere and the whole thing went poof. Fortunately I was in a good job and it was no big deal, but it would have been very stressful if I was between gigs.
throwawaypqr123 6y ago
Throwaway because reasons. I "failed" my first four (edit: onsite) FANG interviews. 5th time was a charm, have been happily employed with a senior title at FANG for a couple years. Not exactly new information to HN, but the job itself is quite a bit easier than the interviews (wrt to technical knowledge). It can be just as stressful though (I actually think stress response / teamwork is one of the main things FANG interviewers are looking for after a certain bar of technical competence is met, YMMV). This isn't for everyone, but if it's something you really want to do, don't let the rejections get you down. You'll get in eventually :)

decafninja 6y ago

Just got off a FB phone screen which I think I failed. Only got through one question, and even that required assistance from the interviewer. My understanding is that if you don't finish two problems, you're doomed. Spent the past week basically taking time off from work to do leetcode problems nonstop. Too bad it didn't help. Third time failing at FB. First time failed the phone screen in 2018. Passed phone screen last year but bombed the onsite. And now failed the third time on the phone screen. Also failed at Amazon (onsite), Netflix (twice - once on the phonescreen, once on the onsite), Uber (twice phonescreen), Microsoft (onsite). Got offers from Credit Karma and WeWork...how I dearly wish those offers were from any of the other companies I had failed at... Needless to say, I feel horrible.

goatinaboat 6y ago
Third time failing at FB. First time failed the phone screen in 2018. Passed phone screen last year but bombed the onsite. And now failed the third time on the phone screen. Being rejected by Facebook in 2021 is probably a good thing
- decafninja 6y ago
  Truth is, I am not as enamored about the company as I was before, and that's what I tell myself, but it's still sour grapes syndrome. It would still be an astronomical step up for me careerwise. I would literally throw away my senior SWE status to join any of the aforementioned companies as a junior SWE level.
  - bluefirebrand 6y ago
    > I would literally throw away my senior SWE status to join any of the aforementioned companies as a junior SWE level. Sorry to say it but if I was a hiring manager and saw someone with senior experience applying for junior positions that's a red flag to me and I would be thinking they probably have big confidence problems.
    - decafninja 6y ago

gsibble 6y ago

As a serial entrepreneur who has raised money a bunch of times, I have absolutely lost count of how many angels and VCs have rejected the companies I've worked for (or founded) and been a part of the process with. Now they just roll off my back. Odd though how in other areas of life, rejections seem much more personal. I suppose there is a difference between a professional rejection vs a personal one.

inertiatic 6y ago

The article/blog post itself seems a bit pointless, minimal content and comes along as more of a humble brag. However I guess it triggers discussion so it's not without value entirely. I have experienced countless rejections. Tens to hundreds every time I switch jobs. After just a few of these, you realize no one knows how to hire and just laugh at the absurdity of this profession.

nautilus12 6y ago
Ooohh you sound like you could out humble brag them. Humble brag off!
alexashka 6y ago
It has that 'if I can do it, you can too' that people who don't know how the world works but base their life around what other people are doing/saying absolutely love, because it gives them hope. The more people sharing 'started from the bottom now we here' without mentioning the likelihood of it happening, the more people love it. Delusional, yet simple self serving beliefs have a snowball effect without fail - I'd wager Western culture is almost entirely made up of them at this point, which has some interesting consequences.
gwbas1c 6y ago
> The article/blog post itself seems a bit pointless Pointless? No. I'm sure it's reassuring to anyone who doesn't understand the high amount of rejections when looking for a job.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  They did not list a high number of rejections though. Reading through it my first thought was “That’s all? What a weird flex!” In my maybe 20 year career I’ve probably been rejected hundreds of times. So much of tech interviewing is spraying and praying, and everyone is so picky. I’ve been rejected more than five times at a few distinct companies! The author listed shockingly few, unless he’s just giving us the highlight reel.

revskill 6y ago

Good love to see more details on the Why rejects from them.

pmiller2 6y ago
Good luck getting the truth out of any company about why they rejected a candidate.

deleted 6y ago

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jbluepolarbear 6y ago

I’ve had a lot of rejections in my career and I have learned that the best advantage I have that I can bring to an interview is my conversation skills. I may not be as good as another engineer on paper, but if I can get an interview that usually changes.

rapfaria 6y ago

I get it, and I think we've all been hurt. But why keep this list? I remember when I had a stellar year at a big corp. My manager said `nothing bad to report, wow`. I was ready for that S - a Special automatically meant a promotion. A few weeks later, when the whole R&D got the performance letter, I received mine with a C. D usually meant `demitido`, or fired in portuguese. I couldn't believe it, and I kept that letter through many years, just as a reminder of how you can get screwed by things that are not in your power. A few years later, when I saw the letter, I had a much better job, and was much happier. No good could come from seeing that letter from time to time, so I threw it away. As long as these things are living in your life, they are consuming you. The sooner you let them go, the sooner you'll be free

StephenAshmore 6y ago
There are many people that have a fear of rejection. A list like this helps to illustrate that it is okay to be rejected. You can be both successful, and have failed to nail an interview. The list seems purposely devised to help those who have that sort of problem, not as a list to remind him of his failures.
- rapfaria 6y ago
  Agreed, it can help others.
  - shortandsweet 6y ago
    I actually agree with both of you, if that's possible.
throwmeaway_66 6y ago
This is a very good comment. The fetishization of "failure" is a quite recent phenomenon that like many other communication workflows of the modern time has the implicit or explicit goals of making someone understood, commiserated, seen as naturally strong or "yes, I cried, but look how much stronger I am". A total waste of energy that to my eyes looks weak and entitled. Like when you read on, say, Twitter "my biology professor told me I had no chances of finishing high school, but now I have a PhD in molecular biology" - assuming it is true (and I many times doubt it is the whole story), are you really holding a grudge against a nobody in your life who said some words 15 years ago? And that's why I use "failure" in quotes here and I never use the word in my life, except in some very specific contexts (e.g., machine failure). Anybody with ambitions in their lives gets rejected, dismissed and have things that don't work even if they cry in High Valyrian. Forget, move on, live large, not small.

slk500 6y ago

interesting, but better to keep that list for yourself

azhenley 6y ago
Why? It would have helped me a lot when I was younger if more “successful” people shared this info.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

filmgirlcw 6y ago

I’m not going to rattle off my own career rejection list (though I’ve definitely done in in talks I’ve given aimed at people about to graduate from college), but I really appreciate this post. I don’t work in academia, but I know enough people that do to know how rare it is to be open about what is a very rejection-heavy industry, and I commend the author for putting that out there!

zhdc1 6y ago
Very rejection-heavy is saying it lightly.

colmvp 6y ago

I had to accept a huge volume of rejection, both doing in job applications (hundreds of applications) and online dating (thousands). All the while being alone during Covid-19. My advice to those who might be reading is to find a mentor or best friend who you can update on your progress on a semi-regular basis. Those people helped me so much to remain positive and upbeat during the really disappointing moments of 2020. They can also give feedback on your approaches. The other tip is to accept it's going to feel terrible, but to let the disappointment that you feel flow through you to help move on.

ArtWomb 6y ago

Very interesting that your focus is "IDE research". Not sure I've encountered that before! One reason for the rejections may be that in industry, from what I've seen, dev and cloud tools are managed by more "soft skills" people. Masters in Psychology types may be more the candidate they seek. I suppose the thinking is that to gain mass adoption they have to be less engineer designed and more user friendly ;)

yosito 6y ago

This is a very short list of rejections. In my opinion, anyone who wants to have a successful career these days ought to expect at least an order of magnitude more rejections than this over the course of their career.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

I’ve been incredibly fortunate to have few rejections in my career. Off the top of my head: - Google (the feeling was mutual) - GitHub, if you count no response as a rejection - I likely would have been rejected by Microsoft, but I ended the interview early That said, I’ve been even more fortunate to have established great working relationships with peers, mentors and mentees, which has helped me get all but my first job and the one I’m likely to start next. In a sense, the amount of nepotism in the industry is probably a barrier to many, which I’m sensitive to. But these working relationships aren’t the only way to establish good connections. I’ve seen people do very well by just attending meetups related to some aspect of the industry they find interesting. That’s still a barrier for people who don’t have the time to devote (or wait), but for anyone who does have the time and wants to improve their prospects I highly encourage giving it a try.

joelbluminator 6y ago
> but I ended the interview early I wish I had the balls to do that. I mean sometimes u just know you bombed and there's no going back, like 30 minutes into a bad date. You just know. Yet there I am going through the whole 1.5 hours sweating it. Why not just say : Hey guy, thanks for the opportunity. I think we both know this isn't going well for me, good luck! Actually this can work for bad dates as well!
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  For what it’s worth, I wish I had walked out on Google. That was definitely one where I knew I wouldn’t be happy on the job. And I wish I’d stuck it out with MS, at least as a courtesy. Even if I would ultimately have been rejected. I was mostly just disappointed in the particular interview style. I got to the last interview in the loop, by the team’s lead, and asked if he had any intention to have me do an exercise relevant to the (frontend) job or if it would be 4 straight algorithm/data structure exercises. He said the latter, and that’s when I walked.

gnarbarian 6y ago

Success may only come once out of every 100 times you try. So you better get over failing and iterate quickly if you want to make it. Fail fast so you can move on. Interviewing is a skill just like talking to women. you need practice before you will succeed. And practice necessarily means rejection. People who are afraid to fail will never succeed. They put too much weight on a particular thing and then are crushed when it doesn't pan out. You have to get to the point where rejection and failure don't hurt. Just add another data point to your corpus of life experience. Then magically you start to succeed and your success will snowball.

Noumenon72 6y ago
This is such a hostile system. It keeps the market from clearing, both for jobs and for women. No wonder people drop out and play video games. I eventually got pushed past the fear of rejection when my failure-free factory job went sour, but my successful career since then shows it was a waste to put so much rejection in my way. The real world is Nintendo-hard, and that sucks.

andyxor 6y ago

50 times? those are rookie numbers in this racket

gabereiser 6y ago

I like this. Simply because we don't emphasize our failures yet we should, to learn from, etc etc. I've worked at over a dozen software companies big and small over my 20 years+ career yet I've gotten rejections about 50x more than I get offers. Like sales, it's a numbers game. The best jobs I ever had was working with folks I've worked with before or where there was really strong culture fit. Sometimes it's not your achievements but your personality, your goals, who you are that they reject. Keep going.

jvanderbot 6y ago

I wonder if I copied this website style at some point. Mines identical.

rramadass 6y ago

I wouldn't do this and keep it around. We have all had rejections, particularly in these highly competitive times but the trick is to forget about them after doing a quick postmortem and learning any lessons. The reason is that psychologically we are wired to focus on the negatives and ruminate endlessly on it leading to self-doubt and a sapping of self-confidence. This is absolutely not good for long-term psychological growth and by extension, your life. There is also the fact that "recruiting" methods are pseudo-scientific and do not reflect the candidate's ability (outside of very narrow specialized fields) at all. People also tend to make biased snap judgements if you display your failures/faults rather openly. Always project your strengths and don't advertise your faults. PS: Read The Pocket Oracle and Art of Prudence by Baltasar Gracian trans. by Jeremy Robbins (aka The Art of Worldly Wisdom) for some pragmatic approach to life.

nyanpasu64 6y ago
Am I supposed to forget that the vast majority of companies find me unhireable?
- rramadass 6y ago
  In a sense, yes. The trick is to analyze the event (i.e. the attempt and the failure) to learn lessons for improvement and not allow it to be a reflection and definition of you. Are you applying for the wrong type of jobs, are you preparing for the interview properly, how do you distinguish yourself from the crowd, are your expectations too high, are you willing to settle for lower pay, are you networking properly etc. etc. are all parameters which you can tune to give yourself an edge. You have to learn to "Hustle" (not meant in a pejorative way).
  - minhaz23 6y ago
    Tips to distinguish from the crowd?
    - rramadass 6y ago
      Do a google search for "how to stand out from the crowd in the job market". Among the ones which came up https://www.job-hunt.org/ https://www.job-hunt.org/ , https://www.job-hunt.org/job-search-navigation/job-search-navigation.shtml https://www.job-hunt.org/job-search-navigation/job-search-na... seem more relevant. You have to work on your ability, specialize in something and advertise it strongly. There is something i call "increasing the surface area of your luck". It is not enough to just know a language/framework/tool/etc. but you need to go "under the hood" which a "normal" engineer would not bother about eg. knowing how to write multithreaded code but not knowing how SMPs/Caches/Memory Barriers etc. work is not good. You also need to phrase your CV in such a manner (i.e. not a simple list of what you know/done) that you grab the reader's attention eg. instead of saying "i am a experienced C++ programmer" say something like "C++ multi-paradigm programmer with the ability to span all levels of abstraction". Finally, you will be surprised what wonders engaging persistently with Recruiters/Companies/Clients can get you i.e. don't take an initial "no" for a final answer.

throw_away98321 6y ago

I find the amount of rejections "most" have to experience before landing a decent job somewhere, to be soul crushing and when life can already be very depressing. It would be nice if one's ability was easily measured by a history of completions and then graded. It would also be nice if life wasn't so competitive for surviving and for not ending up homeless. I pity the young generation that doesn't have real family that supports them until they make it somewhere.

SMAAART 6y ago

Thank you for your service; I wish you a lot more failures on your way to push the envelope in the space between fear and panic.

throwaway892398 6y ago

I've been accepted to most of the positions I've applied mainly because I avoided FAANG companies for fear of rejection. I was getting regular emails from their recruiters but just kept deleting them. One day I just decided to reply to the Google recruiter. I stupidly set up the interview ASAP at a time when I was out of the country with no computer or internet. So I went into the interview with zero prep. It was a disaster. That experience made me once again ignore FAANG recruiters for a while until I was pressured by a friend to apply at Amazon. I crammed hard for that. I thought I aced all the on site interviews with optimal solutions and stupidly told my folks that I likely got the job (bad idea!). I didn't. Finally took a stab at some tier 2 companies in NYC and was rejected by all. Some were really close others were just bad timing (WeWork during IPO fiasco). I'm still chugging along working at some company with no name recognition. Yeah it sucks that all my peers work at FAANG and don't understand why I'm not trying to work at a more prominent company. Honestly it worked out better. I have a minimal commute, a decent home in an area with great schools, comp comparable to FAANG, and finally my work has a much greater impact at my company.

kazamaloo 6y ago
fwiw, there is substantial randomness in the process (worked at two of FAANG myself). Try to do mock interviews with your friends if it helps. You may be showing patterns that you think is correct, but actually quite the opposite (this is what happened with me).
redisman 6y ago
The FAANG interview is hard dude. I feel like I could maybe get in if I took a 6 month study break for it which is totally unrealistic. I tried a few times at the top 10 companies (except ones I consider immoral) and even got pretty far at some (onsites that went decently) but I'm pretty happy at medium sized later stage startups doing my 9-5. It's not like working for the highest market cap company in the US is going to give your life any more meaning.
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  Good comment. There won't be any more meaning, arguably there would be less meaning in FAANG (I mean where will u have more impact: a 50-200 people team or a 100000 team?). The FAANG compensation though is simply insane and just having it on your resume is huge for one's career, that's why everyone wants it. But u can have a very nice career without working there, I mean most of us don't work there.

120bits 6y ago

I did something similar last year after getting rejected by FAANGs and few more other tech companies. - Google rejected 3 times. - Facebook 2 times. - Amazon(AWS) 1 times. - Adobe 1 Times. - Twitter, Github, stripe and others won't even consider me good enough for an interview. - Dozens others companies, who do FAANG style interviewing. I fear rejections, no matter how much I "try" to act normal. I was looking forward to working on some new projects and with talented team members, I never got that opportunity and its heart breaking. I been working on solving leetcode problems. But sometimes can't even solve Easy problems and its just so demotivating. Specially, when I get an automated rejection response without any additional feedback. I have realized that maybe I'm not a rockstar coder that can come up with high performance code. I'm ok, I can figure shit out! and I think that's fine. BTW actual feedback from an technical interview, "I would encourage XXX to use some coding challenge practice websites to become comfortable with producing quick working code segments which would help him feel comfortable and produce code quickly in future interviews." Unbelievable!

echelon 6y ago
Not a critique, just an observation. I could be totally wrong. > I would encourage XXX to use some coding challenge practice websites to become comfortable with producing quick working code segments contrasts with > I have realized that maybe I'm not a rockstar coder that can come up with high performance code. What's your analytical process like? Do you take a moment to sit back and just think? Don't dive directly into the code. My most successful candidates spend five to ten minutes thinking about my problem and talking themselves through it before writing any real code. They'll sometimes take notes with class diagrams or ASCII diagrams. You don't have to have an optimal solution first.
- 120bits 6y ago
  Good question. It seems I lack speed implementing an optimal solution. During my initial FAANG interviews, I have had gone totally blank on my thought process and code. After few interviews, I don't actually dive in coding. I spend at least 10minutes about the problem and explain how it can be solved. I have realized that the interviewer is not looking an optimal solution at first. However, they're not satisfied with till the optimal code solution actually works.

TrackerFF 6y ago

I've worked with people that were rejected 3-4 times from the same place, before finally getting a job there. Getting rejected doesn't necessarily mean "No, we will never want you around here. Do not apply" though it might feel that way. Sometimes there are just too many (great) applicants to choose from. But who knows, that pick could be you.

confidantlake 6y ago

That list looks tiny. Have failed 10 interviews this year alone.

redisman 6y ago
Yeah it is tiny. I just sent more than 10 applications during the holidays for fun with two failed onsites and maybe a third to show for it.

rd07 6y ago

I have been working professionally for 3+ years in a single company. I've been lucky to have got this job without a test nor interview ( I was an intern there, and they offered me the job before my intern period was up). Recently, I feel bored there and tried to apply to another company. Currently, I am in the last stage of the test and it seems I will be able to pass it. But, I feel nervous to actually change my job, because this will be my first time changing workplace, and I don't know if I will actually be accepted there (there is a probation period of 3 months). Reading this thread makes me re-realize that changing jobs was not an unusual thing. Thank you for sharing this.

beforeolives 6y ago
> I don't know if I will actually be accepted there (there is a probation period of 3 months). Depending on where you live 3-6 month probation periods can be completely standard. If you get the job, you are accepted there. The probation period is just a window in which you and the company can separate with less friction. In most places it's a formality that you shouldn't worry about unless you're extremely underperforming or doing something egregious at work.
- lmm 6y ago
  Or your manager arbitrarily decides they don't like you (particularly in startup-like environments with limited process). It shouldn't happen, but it does.
  - rd07 6y ago
    My friend who has wider experiences changing jobs than me also said the same thing as your comment and its parent. Workplace politics is a real thing.
    - etripe 6y ago
      Not only is it a real thing, at some workplaces it's the main event.
- 6y ago

amir734jj 6y ago

Kind of unrelated but I just accepted a software developer position at Microsoft (Redmond). Any advice? I previously failed twice at Amazon and promised myself to never ever do another excruciating Amazon interview. My interview at Microsoft was super nice surprisingly, questions were difficult but not as tricky as Amazon.

sumanthvepa 6y ago

It works both ways. I've had jobs at FAANG and rejected an offer from a FAANG as well. I'm not that impressed with FAANGs anymore. I think one grows out of the need for validation after while. It's just business. I see interviewing largely as a sales function. Winning a sale with a prospect is a game of numbers. Of course your product (i.e. your skill set and track record) matters but there are many other confounding variables you have no control over. So stressing about any one job rejection is a bad idea. particularly when conversion rates are very low.

dijit 6y ago

Here’s a weird anecdote. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten a job I applied for (with the exception of my current job which I suspect was tailored for me and a colleague.) Nearly every job offer I ever got I was reached out to by a recruiter. It seems like, if I apply, I get blacklisted, but if I don’t apply a recruiter reaches out later and I often end up with an offer. This has happened with small and large companies. Sometimes even the same job but after a year or so. (Apple, most notably). Does anyone else have similar experience?

c-c-c-c-c 6y ago
How do the recruiters find you on the internet?
- lukaszkups 6y ago
  I bet it's Xing or Linkedin?
- dijit 6y ago
  Linkedin, mostly.
anontechworker 6y ago
I’m in the same boat. I’ve never directly applied to the 3 jobs (including a FAANG) that I’ve taken in Silicon Valley. One found me on angel list and the others LinkedIn or direct email. Similar to you, the places I did apply to would never respond, even with referrals in some cases.

legerdemain 6y ago

Impira? The tiny startup led by a bushy-tailed twenty-something CEO? Why would the author apply there?! Did Impira even exist in 2013? And... Kite? The Python refactoring plugin that's always mired in low-grade controversy and barely has any funding? Sure, interviews are a crapshoot, but... why?!

viach 6y ago

What's the deal? I can easily beat your results just sending my CV to all your list +1 random company.

simonebrunozzi 6y ago

Interesting blog post; a far more interesting aspect, for me and my personal career at least, is the companies and interviews where the company did a really poor job and essentially wasted my time and/or pissed me off. Without naming names, here's a couple of examples: 1) FAANG company: interviewed and received offers at two distinct times, which I rejected. Both offers where missing exactly what I had asked at the beginning of the interview cycle (salary was lower than my current; seniority level wasn't what I expected). Third cycle of interviews, years later - rejected because they thought I didn't have enough experience in that specific role (been doing it very successfully for 8+ years at that point). Close friends in the industry couldn't believe it. 2) fast-growing startup: first interview with CMO, hoping to get a CTO-like, executive position (not to brag but please trust me that I abundantly had all the necessary skills and experience). Then I get to an interview with a very junior lady. After 30 minutes in the interview, I realize that something is wrong. I ask her if this is intended to be an interview for a job where I would report to her... Someone just fresh out of college, with a couple of years of working experience in a non-relevant field/company. WTF. 3) Three very, very successful YC companies: applying for a job and not even receiving an opportunity to interview, despite the obvious good match between my profile and the job itself. 4) Flew to an interview with company in Silicon Valley (soon to be acquired by FAANG-like), on my own dime, from another state in the US (domestic flight, a couple hundred bucks, took an entire day off for that). The motherf-er who was supposed to interview me didn't even show up, and never apologized. Please, don't read the above as me being arrogant or have too high an opinion of my skills or my profile (you're still free to think so); these were really situations where it was far too obvious that the company and/or the interviewer didn't have any idea of what they were doing, or did a really poor job at handling the job process. In fact, I also had my fair share of situations where I was rejected, etc, in which I happily admitted to myself that the company didn't do anything wrong, and that perhaps I wasn't a good match there after all. I can easily think of a few more situations like the above. These things used to piss me off so much. Now, in hindsight, I see these as ways in which I have learned more about the IT industry, and how appearances often don't match reality. Not at cool startups; not at FAANG-like companies.

mr_gibbins 6y ago
Often I remind myself that interviews are a two-way street - companies forget this, to their detriment. You are there to impress them, but they are also there to impress you - do you want to spend the next few years with them? Companies who forget this by putting obstacles in the way - e.g. several, progressively more absurd, interview cycles, arbitrary whiteboard examinations and so on simply put off the most qualified and experienced. Worst interview question I ever had? 'What is your opinion of the actor Kevin Bacon?'. What, are we in primary school? I thanked them for their time and ended the interview early.

vorhemus 6y ago

What amazes me every time I read articles like this is that some companies are apparently so afraid of hiring the wrong people because that's costly - and at the same time they don't mind throwing abandoned projects that did cost millions of dollars on the graveyard every month.

joelbluminator 6y ago
Great comment. In fact, in a country like the U.S where it's so easy to fire people I don't see what the big deal is.

the_arun 6y ago

IMHO - Give me a coding exercise that is needed for a day-to-day life in the target job, I would take it & no hard feelings if I fail. I do not believe Google/Facebook engineers are solving Binary tree problems everyday. Future is all about ML models generating code for you. So you may not even program in the future. What we need is creative intelligence or common sense that you apply for a given situation. Everything sounds very hypothetical though :)

lenwood 6y ago

Very interesting. I think anyone with ambition has been rejected and its interesting to see how much OP is putting themselves out there. I chose to keep a list of all of the times I or my work has been recognized. I guess it comes down to what motivates you, but I'd rather not dwell on the times I've been rejected.

MH15 6y ago

This does seem to be a very short list of rejections from my perspective as a current CS student at a decent state university in the US. During applications season in the fall it's not uncommon for my peers to apply to between 20 and 100 job postings. This tracks for students seeking internships and those seeking full-time employment. This past year I applied to less jobs than I ever have and still applied to 16 postings (all of which I was reasonably qualified for, no FAANG) before landing my current internship. The year prior I applied to far, far more.

crazyideaman 6y ago

Funniest rejection I've gotten: I once applied to mid-size company and during the phone screen helped them understand the role they wanted/needed was actually a senior program manager position. They later contacted me to thank me for helping them understand the role they needed to interview for. They adjusted the listing but said that they would not be bringing me in for an interview...

mbrodersen 6y ago

Reading the post and comments I realise that I have been very lucky so far in my 25+ year career. It’s good and humbling to see how hard it can be in general.

webyacusa 6y ago

I don't want to sound like I am looking for pity here, but at what point, is it OK to give up? My first fail was back at 2009, a full interview cycle with Microsoft. After I was rejected by AWS a few weeks ago (also a full cycle interview, no offer), I realize that I have spent a decade, on and off, trying to get employed by big tech. Since I am not getting any younger, spent countless hours preparing, reading and re-reading Cracking The Code Interview, and I don't feel like I am getting any better or closer, I am looking for some closure. I believe perseverance is an important quality, but also, I don't want to spend another decade through all this. I have been always employed, in not so sexy corporations, but I have earned a living, raised my son, and supported my family, that still lives in a third world country, and without my support they would had been homeless years ago. Sometimes I feel like my efforts were more of an ego trip, just to show off how smart I am, that I was hired by Google. And that's where I am right now. I am unsure how to feel.