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It's underreported, but the EU hesitance towards the AZ vaccine really started with the Danish government putting the vaccine on hold. Hours after, Austria foll

by flexie 6y ago

It's underreported, but the EU hesitance towards the AZ vaccine really started with the Danish government putting the vaccine on hold. Hours after, Austria followed and many other EU nations. Whereas it may make sense to err on the side of safety for the Danish government, who has already vaccinated the oldest and weakest 10 percent of population, who has no third wave yet, who can afford the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, who has the infrastructure for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, and who has a generally well educated population, it really complicates things in many other places. I live in Bulgaria, where the population and even health care personnel are already skeptical. Medical doctors are old, many don't speak English. They get their news from Russia. My own physician called her patients warning us not to get a jab back in February. A third wave is well underway now. When people here heard about richer and more well functioning nations suspending the vaccine, they lost the last confidence. Although Bulgaria has since reassumed vaccinations with AZ, I fear the damage is done. Few people are getting a jab now. I really wish richer nations would think more globally before they rush to such decisions. Thousands of people will die in poorer nations due to the delays it causes.

martin_bech 6y ago
As a Dane myself, I completely agree. And we should have resumed once EMA affirmed the vaccine being safe and efficient. But there is a feeling here that we have thing under control, and in a weird way we do.. we had about 6 covid deaths total, last week.
- jopsen 6y ago
  We do for now, but we all know it can blow up any second.
- kossTKR 6y ago
  This makes zero sense to me from a stats point of view. Denmark has only had 11 deaths in total in the age bracket [0-60], without known underlying conditions. Most of them close to sixty and overweight. 4 [0-60] bracket women have already died in Norway, and 2 in Denmark with one 30 year old in intensive care. All healthy relatively young health workers, a group of people that have simply not died from Covid. Norway has zero deaths below 60 without underlying conditions, and 4 deaths from the vaccine. So it's only the vaccine killing healthy people. Same in Denmark. You won't find a single dead healthy 50 yr woman among the dead. All the data is publically available. It's almost incomprehensible to me that people don't understand that Covid almost exlusively kills 80+ people, or with many comorbidities. Close to zero healthy people below 60 have died from Covid in the west. Sacrificing 4 healthy people after only 120K vaccinations in NO is crazy. Or 2 after 140K in Denmark with one in critical. I wouldn't take the AZ vaccine. There is about a in 1 / 25000 of sudden death for a healthy|<60 person compared to zero with Covid at the moment. 1 / 25000 chance of dying is crazy high for a 30 year old, and here we haven't even counted non fatal haemorrhages which is higher.
  - dsincl12 6y ago
    Sometimes I wondered if I was completely alone in this madness. Nice to see I'm not alone. Thank you!
  - elbear 6y ago
    Has causality been established between vaccines and the 4 deaths?
    - chithanh 6y ago
      I don't know about Norway, but for Germany there have been preliminary results published, which indicate that the cerebral venous sinus thrombosis cases were indeed caused by immune reaction. Article (in German): https://www.spektrum.de/news/astrazeneca-impfstoff-immunreaktion-loest-thrombosen-im-hirn-aus/1849132 https://www.spektrum.de/news/astrazeneca-impfstoff-immunreak...
    - the_mitsuhiko 6y ago
      Not sure about Norway but the case in Austria that started all that was an immune reaction to the vaccine: https://noe.orf.at/stories/3095633/ https://noe.orf.at/stories/3095633/
    - timoth 6y ago
      This is a few days old now so doesn't include the latest Norwegian cases, but that seemed to be the thinking (though the article feels a bit of a mix between certain and equivocal at different points). https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/KyGv2G/professor-says-cause-of-rare-bloodclots-in-people-vaccinated-with-astrazeneca-has-been-found https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/KyGv2G/professor-says-...
    - marvin 6y ago
      Not in the published, peer reviewed sense. But the group of doctors at Rikshospitalet, that treated some of these patients, is confident that the vaccine is the only plausible explanation. https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/KyGv2G/professor-says-cause-of-rare-bloodclots-in-people-vaccinated-with-astrazeneca-has-been-found https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/KyGv2G/professor-says-... Quoting from the somewhat poorly translated VG article: >"We have the reason [for the blood clots]. And there is no other thing than the vaccine which can explain that we have this immune response, says Holme." >"[...] we have no other history with these patients that could create such a severe immune response. I am confident that these antibodies is the reason, and I see no other reasons than it being the vaccine that triggers it" Original, in Norwegian: https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/QmwR1V/professor-om-mistenkte-vaksinebivirkninger-aarsaken-er-funnet https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/QmwR1V/professor-om-mi...
the_mitsuhiko 6y ago
> Hours after, Austria followed and many other EU nations. Austria never followed. As far as I know one charge was discarded after a fatal clotting case in Austria in a nurse. The regulator also said that the risk of not vaccinating outweighs the risk of vaccinating.
- flexie 6y ago
  As I understand it, whereas Denmark paused every AZ vaccine, Austria suspended certain batches of the vaccine: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/16/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-doctors-react-as-eu-countries-suspend-shot.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/16/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-do...
  - the_mitsuhiko 6y ago
    One batch was suspended pending investigation.
raverbashing 6y ago
Yeah the stop was needless and only helped the anti-vaxxers. The chance is still much less than common medication like birth control and much smaller than Covid itself. Anti-vaxxers shouldn't be pandered to, they should be sent to the back of the queue when the need for ICUs come.
Vinnl 6y ago
On the other hand, the one message you don't want to get out is "we decided not to pause vaccinations because we were afraid of what it would do to the vaccine's image" - and if there were deliberations to that effect, that will get out. Transparency can be painful in the short run, but in the longer run I feel like it's often the better option.
- jopsen 6y ago
  > "we decided not to pause vaccinations because we were afraid of what it would do to the vaccine's image" Ironically, that's the news they'll get from Russia :)
  - virgilp 6y ago
    No matter what you do, this is the news they'll get from Russia. So the only reasonable strategy is to handle that as a separate and independent issue (combatting fake news from Russia) that shouldn't affect your vaccination strategy or other strategies.
- captainmuon 6y ago
  Ironically, if you don't want to undermine the vaccine's image, the message should be that you don't care about the vaccine's image. People should think the decision to stop or continue is made for scientific or bureaucratic reasons, not because the vaccine is dangerous or you are hiding something.
Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago
Strange take. Bulgaria has a skeptical and misinformed population so you blame the Danish health authorities for taking a decision coherent with their mission, i.e., to protect Danish citizens? I don't think a national health authority has to think about these things at all, honestly. I would distrust my local agency if I knew they didn't pause vaccinations that they thought should be paused in order not to affect the vaccine's public image. The problem lies elsewhere.
- tdsamardzhiev 6y ago
  Blame? On the contrary, he went the extra mile to explain why it was the right decision for Denmark, but mindlessly copying it was NOT the right decision for Bulgaria, and people died because of it. Acting like our govt did is a very Bulgarian thing, we even have a saying for it -- "The frog saw they're shoeing the horse and raised her foot."
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    I can’t square that line of reasoning with the inclusion of the last paragraph, which reads as if they’re blaming Denmark: > I really wish richer nations would think more globally before they rush to such decisions. Thousands of people will die in poorer nations due to the delays it causes.
    - tdsamardzhiev 6y ago
      Edit: Ah, I see -- you mean the last line in flexie's comment. Alright, it was either added after I read it, or I somehow managed to miss it.
- rebuilder 6y ago
  What if they pause vaccinations they don't think should be paused on medical grounds, in order not to affect the vaccine's public image? That seems to be what's happening now.
hannob 6y ago
I honestly have a hard time following that line of reasoning. It's always like: "These vaccines are dangerous, what about sideeffects? You're hiding the sideeffects!" Then countries and health authorities show that they're very sensitive when sideeffects show up and do a careful investigation. Now being extra careful is criticized as undermining trust in vaccines? (I guess if they had decided to not pause that would've also caused claims that this undermines trust in vaccines, as they're ignoring sideeffects.) I'm not even saying pausing was the right decision. It was a tough call and I wouldn't want to be in a position to make that call. But I guess there's one undeniable fact: The Anti-Vax crowd will use whatever happens to construct new bullshit arguments. There's no way to prevent that, and I think the best thing to do about it is to ignore those people as much as possible.
- lvice 6y ago
  The anti-vax crowd is complete nonsense, but the feeling I got from Italy wasn't so much "see! vaccines are dangerous! I am not getting a jab!, but rather "it looks like AstraZeneca may not be entirely safe, I demand a Moderna or Pfizer jab!". Due to extremely skewed media coverage of the recent events, it may also be almost justifiable as a general reaction of population. If people are told that a vaccine has a rare but lethal side effect, and they are not in at-risk category, and there are two other vaccines that seem safer, it is almost reasonable to wait the other one. The main issue has been communication by media which made the investigation into side-effect seem much more severe than what it really was, undermining people trust in AZ. I think newspapers made an horrible job at it. I would definitely still get the AZ vaccine, but I kind of understand where people are coming from, given the message given by media and their number-illiteracy that does not allow them to understand probability and the scale of numbers.
  - mmahemoff 6y ago
    The minute-by-minute story of vaccines emerging over the past year has turned everyone into an armchair immunologist. Most people wouldn't normally have a clue who's making a vaccine they need for travel etc, let alone how they compare, but now people act like they're picking from a wine menu. The reality is we're damn well lucky to have any vaccine at all, and only a year after the pandemic kicked off.
tchalla 6y ago
Germany had to temporarily suspend vaccination for 2 days due to a legal requirement. Here’s an article which explains different angles to it. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/19/world/europe/europe-vaccine-astrazeneca-interpreter.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/19/world/europe/europe-vacci...
- chithanh 6y ago
  That article is quite uninformed. There was no legal requirement either, it was a purely political decision, based on the advice of the Paul-Ehrlich-Institute (PEI). The statistical anomality about the thrombosis cases was known before and not considered a reason to halt vaccination. Only when it became clear that these were CSVT combined with lowered platelet count (which is known to be caused by immune reaction), strongly suggesting a causal link, then the decision to halt vaccination was made, until the actual risk could be assessed.
WanderPanda 6y ago
Maybe the > They get their news from Russia. part is the one that needs addressing and not the other countries killing confidence by sending mixed signals. In the end it’s an evolutionary process, the ones who are right will survive with a higher probability. Also I am not totally ruling out the posibillity that the sceptical ones might be right in the end. Though I personally believe that it’s a no brainer to take the jab if you are above a certain age (50, 60 idk) or have other health issues.
holri 6y ago
Austria did never set AZ on hold.
ignoramous 6y ago
India has two vaccines in circulation both based on inactivated virus and surprisingly there's no such fud spreading around these parts. Though the lines at vaccine centers are not long, I know many who have gotten it, including 85+ year olds with comorbidities who suffered one or two chills but that's about it.
- thrwoi4u23434 6y ago
  Covishield is similar to Az/Ox vaccine and uses the AdV vector. Covaxin uses inactivated Cov2 viruses. Long wait times in B'luru earlier this month. That said, I don't think the vaccine or the disease mean too much to Indians (due to all sorts of factors). Wish the Govt. was looking at actual data and science rather than what their peers in other countries were doing. Looks like they'll be locking the country down and destroying parts of the economy that weren't destroyed by last year. Almost seems malicious at this point.
  - sampo 6y ago
    > Covishield is similar to Az/Ox vaccine Covishield is the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, produced in India under a licence.
    - hef19898 6y ago
      That's important to know. Any idea how many doses have been used by now?
      - ignoramous 6y ago
        More than 40M according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_in_India
        hef19898 6y ago
        Crazy idea, maybe we should import the AZ licensed vaccine to Europe and export the AZ branded one in exchange? Just kidding, thanks for the numbers!
downrightmike 6y ago
Just because your government didn't do the work, doesn't mean it falls to another to protect you. That is something you have to change at the ballot box.
swebs 6y ago
I seriously doubt most countries are just blindly following Denmark. The much more likely reason is that this specific vaccine offers very little protection against the rapidly spreading South African variant.
NicoJuicy 6y ago
> They get their news from Russia. That seems to be a bigger problem than other countries evaluating and re-evaluating the vaccine.
- La1n 6y ago
  https://brazilian.report/coronavirus-brazil-live-blog/2021/03/15/us-pressured-brazil-ditch-russias-sputnik-v-vaccine/ https://brazilian.report/coronavirus-brazil-live-blog/2021/0... A lot of countries are pressuring other countries in not using "other" vaccines these days.
  - NicoJuicy 6y ago
    Russia didn't have phase 3 trials when it pitched to Brazil. So it does seem justified to me, they hurried up everything "to be the first". In the mean time, Europe has independent trials. But the news you are posting is from before that ( december 2020). Interim phase3 trial data was only published in February 2021: https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n743 https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n743
    - La1n 6y ago
      >"Combatting malign influences in the Americas: OGA used diplomatic relations in the Americas region to mitigate efforts by states, including Cuba, Venezuela, and Russia, who are working to increase their influence in the region to the detriment of US safety and security. OGA coordinated with other U.S. government agencies to strengthen diplomatic ties and offer technical and humanitarian assistance to dissuade countries in the region from accepting aid from these illintentioned states. Examples include using OGA’s Health Attaché office to persuade Brazil to reject the Russian COVID-19 vaccine, and offering CDC technical assistance in lieu of Panama accepting an offer of Cuban doctors. " This has nothing to do with phase 3 trials or it being rushed.... https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/2020-annual-report.pdf https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/2020-annual-report.p...
      - NicoJuicy 6y ago
topbanana 6y ago
It's a great shame. 61% of people in France now think the AZ vaccine is unsafe, up 18 percentage points on February. 55% of Germans think the AZ jab is unsafe, up 15 points on February. We can add Covid to the 'precautionary principle' victim list that already includes zero-carbon energy, and huge improvements in agricultural productivity.
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  > zero-carbon energy, and huge improvements in agricultural productivity. Just so we're clear, what you actually mean is "nuclear energy" and "genetically modified crops", right?
  - h_anna_h 6y ago
    The GP should really work in marketing. They have the skill needed.
krzyk 6y ago
And in Poland they didn't stop vaccinating with AZ and it caused even more problems - at least 50% people are not going to their scheduled vaccination. This issue would be solved by: allowing people to choose vaccine they want (according to our government officials "they are all the same") or/and allow younger crowds to vaccinate.
- ulucs 6y ago
  > according to our government officials "they are all the same" Who can fault people for mistrusting their government, when they keep on lying and lying?
macspoofing 6y ago
> I fear the damage is done. For sure. After EU nations put the vaccine on hold, pretty much everyone in my circle of friends and family has decided to either not take this vaccine outright or is seriously considering not taking it. This is Canada.
londons_explore 6y ago
It's all a communications issue. I haven't seen any decent effort to explain to the regular public the scale of risks of anything. Yet it seems very possible. For example, each person could have presented to them a personal "health card", which showed to them what might happen to them in the next 10 years. It would have on it "Dies from Heart disease", "Covid", "run over by bus", "still living and healthy". Each would have area scaled by likelihood. Then they could be given another identical health card showing how their health outcomes would change with a vaccine. Upon seeing "Oh, I have more chance of being healthy in 10 years if I take this vaccine", they'd be much more likely to sign up. Likewise, after a cancer diagnosis, they can be given a new card with "dies of cancer" now being a massive area, and they can readjust their priorities. I think the trick is the cards must be customized for everyone, taking into account personal risk factors (age, do they smoke, how obese, past health issues, etc.) An entire government department could have as their job reading papers and coming up with a method to produce the cards as accurately as possible.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> the EU hesitance towards the AZ vaccine really started with the Danish government putting the vaccine on hold The hesitance started when Brussels got railed for failing at vaccine distribution.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Yep, around the same time the first, and completely wrong, article about AZ ineffectiveness came out in Germany. I have the impression that politicians wanted to save their behinds by sacrificing AZ and hoping things would solve themselves. Which they didn't, but now it's too late.
kmlx 6y ago
in another Eastern European country a nurse that was administering the vaccine was telling people to go home and not get vaccinated with the AZN vaccine when they came in to get vaccinated :)))
Viker 6y ago
You can not make any of these comparisons, Bulgaria is a very special country. 1-Prime minister is a thug and soon to assume dictators role. 2- Population is in HEAVY decline, unlike most places. 3- Most of the educated people emigrate abroad, and never return, in result the remaining population is mostly in "risk group" .. but it is not a group if its most. 4- 10% of the population (romes), do not count as Bulgarian and will not be vaccinated, so that is also a huge problem. And most of these factors are due to culture/mentality problems, that stem from within. So yeh. Bulgaria is not comparable to other countries
totalZero 6y ago
> I really wish richer nations would think more globally before they rush to such decisions. The Danish government has no obligation to base its public health policy on what is optically best for Bulgaria. Every Danish person should be able to expect that their government will act in the best interest of Denmark.

by flexie 6y ago

martin_bech 6y ago

As a Dane myself, I completely agree. And we should have resumed once EMA affirmed the vaccine being safe and efficient. But there is a feeling here that we have thing under control, and in a weird way we do.. we had about 6 covid deaths total, last week.

jopsen 6y ago
We do for now, but we all know it can blow up any second.
kossTKR 6y ago
This makes zero sense to me from a stats point of view. Denmark has only had 11 deaths in total in the age bracket [0-60], without known underlying conditions. Most of them close to sixty and overweight. 4 [0-60] bracket women have already died in Norway, and 2 in Denmark with one 30 year old in intensive care. All healthy relatively young health workers, a group of people that have simply not died from Covid. Norway has zero deaths below 60 without underlying conditions, and 4 deaths from the vaccine. So it's only the vaccine killing healthy people. Same in Denmark. You won't find a single dead healthy 50 yr woman among the dead. All the data is publically available. It's almost incomprehensible to me that people don't understand that Covid almost exlusively kills 80+ people, or with many comorbidities. Close to zero healthy people below 60 have died from Covid in the west. Sacrificing 4 healthy people after only 120K vaccinations in NO is crazy. Or 2 after 140K in Denmark with one in critical. I wouldn't take the AZ vaccine. There is about a in 1 / 25000 of sudden death for a healthy|<60 person compared to zero with Covid at the moment. 1 / 25000 chance of dying is crazy high for a 30 year old, and here we haven't even counted non fatal haemorrhages which is higher.
- dsincl12 6y ago
  Sometimes I wondered if I was completely alone in this madness. Nice to see I'm not alone. Thank you!
- elbear 6y ago
  Has causality been established between vaccines and the 4 deaths?
  - chithanh 6y ago
    I don't know about Norway, but for Germany there have been preliminary results published, which indicate that the cerebral venous sinus thrombosis cases were indeed caused by immune reaction. Article (in German): https://www.spektrum.de/news/astrazeneca-impfstoff-immunreaktion-loest-thrombosen-im-hirn-aus/1849132 https://www.spektrum.de/news/astrazeneca-impfstoff-immunreak...
  - the_mitsuhiko 6y ago
    Not sure about Norway but the case in Austria that started all that was an immune reaction to the vaccine: https://noe.orf.at/stories/3095633/ https://noe.orf.at/stories/3095633/
  - timoth 6y ago
    This is a few days old now so doesn't include the latest Norwegian cases, but that seemed to be the thinking (though the article feels a bit of a mix between certain and equivocal at different points). https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/KyGv2G/professor-says-cause-of-rare-bloodclots-in-people-vaccinated-with-astrazeneca-has-been-found https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/KyGv2G/professor-says-...
  - marvin 6y ago
    Not in the published, peer reviewed sense. But the group of doctors at Rikshospitalet, that treated some of these patients, is confident that the vaccine is the only plausible explanation. https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/KyGv2G/professor-says-cause-of-rare-bloodclots-in-people-vaccinated-with-astrazeneca-has-been-found https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/KyGv2G/professor-says-... Quoting from the somewhat poorly translated VG article: >"We have the reason [for the blood clots]. And there is no other thing than the vaccine which can explain that we have this immune response, says Holme." >"[...] we have no other history with these patients that could create such a severe immune response. I am confident that these antibodies is the reason, and I see no other reasons than it being the vaccine that triggers it" Original, in Norwegian: https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/QmwR1V/professor-om-mistenkte-vaksinebivirkninger-aarsaken-er-funnet https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/QmwR1V/professor-om-mi...

the_mitsuhiko 6y ago

> Hours after, Austria followed and many other EU nations. Austria never followed. As far as I know one charge was discarded after a fatal clotting case in Austria in a nurse. The regulator also said that the risk of not vaccinating outweighs the risk of vaccinating.

flexie 6y ago
As I understand it, whereas Denmark paused every AZ vaccine, Austria suspended certain batches of the vaccine: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/16/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-doctors-react-as-eu-countries-suspend-shot.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/16/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-do...
- the_mitsuhiko 6y ago
  One batch was suspended pending investigation.

raverbashing 6y ago

Yeah the stop was needless and only helped the anti-vaxxers. The chance is still much less than common medication like birth control and much smaller than Covid itself. Anti-vaxxers shouldn't be pandered to, they should be sent to the back of the queue when the need for ICUs come.

Vinnl 6y ago

On the other hand, the one message you don't want to get out is "we decided not to pause vaccinations because we were afraid of what it would do to the vaccine's image" - and if there were deliberations to that effect, that will get out. Transparency can be painful in the short run, but in the longer run I feel like it's often the better option.

jopsen 6y ago
> "we decided not to pause vaccinations because we were afraid of what it would do to the vaccine's image" Ironically, that's the news they'll get from Russia :)
- virgilp 6y ago
  No matter what you do, this is the news they'll get from Russia. So the only reasonable strategy is to handle that as a separate and independent issue (combatting fake news from Russia) that shouldn't affect your vaccination strategy or other strategies.
captainmuon 6y ago
Ironically, if you don't want to undermine the vaccine's image, the message should be that you don't care about the vaccine's image. People should think the decision to stop or continue is made for scientific or bureaucratic reasons, not because the vaccine is dangerous or you are hiding something.

Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago

Strange take. Bulgaria has a skeptical and misinformed population so you blame the Danish health authorities for taking a decision coherent with their mission, i.e., to protect Danish citizens? I don't think a national health authority has to think about these things at all, honestly. I would distrust my local agency if I knew they didn't pause vaccinations that they thought should be paused in order not to affect the vaccine's public image. The problem lies elsewhere.

tdsamardzhiev 6y ago
Blame? On the contrary, he went the extra mile to explain why it was the right decision for Denmark, but mindlessly copying it was NOT the right decision for Bulgaria, and people died because of it. Acting like our govt did is a very Bulgarian thing, we even have a saying for it -- "The frog saw they're shoeing the horse and raised her foot."
- sokoloff 6y ago
  I can’t square that line of reasoning with the inclusion of the last paragraph, which reads as if they’re blaming Denmark: > I really wish richer nations would think more globally before they rush to such decisions. Thousands of people will die in poorer nations due to the delays it causes.
  - tdsamardzhiev 6y ago
    Edit: Ah, I see -- you mean the last line in flexie's comment. Alright, it was either added after I read it, or I somehow managed to miss it.
rebuilder 6y ago
What if they pause vaccinations they don't think should be paused on medical grounds, in order not to affect the vaccine's public image? That seems to be what's happening now.

hannob 6y ago

I honestly have a hard time following that line of reasoning. It's always like: "These vaccines are dangerous, what about sideeffects? You're hiding the sideeffects!" Then countries and health authorities show that they're very sensitive when sideeffects show up and do a careful investigation. Now being extra careful is criticized as undermining trust in vaccines? (I guess if they had decided to not pause that would've also caused claims that this undermines trust in vaccines, as they're ignoring sideeffects.) I'm not even saying pausing was the right decision. It was a tough call and I wouldn't want to be in a position to make that call. But I guess there's one undeniable fact: The Anti-Vax crowd will use whatever happens to construct new bullshit arguments. There's no way to prevent that, and I think the best thing to do about it is to ignore those people as much as possible.

lvice 6y ago
The anti-vax crowd is complete nonsense, but the feeling I got from Italy wasn't so much "see! vaccines are dangerous! I am not getting a jab!, but rather "it looks like AstraZeneca may not be entirely safe, I demand a Moderna or Pfizer jab!". Due to extremely skewed media coverage of the recent events, it may also be almost justifiable as a general reaction of population. If people are told that a vaccine has a rare but lethal side effect, and they are not in at-risk category, and there are two other vaccines that seem safer, it is almost reasonable to wait the other one. The main issue has been communication by media which made the investigation into side-effect seem much more severe than what it really was, undermining people trust in AZ. I think newspapers made an horrible job at it. I would definitely still get the AZ vaccine, but I kind of understand where people are coming from, given the message given by media and their number-illiteracy that does not allow them to understand probability and the scale of numbers.
- mmahemoff 6y ago
  The minute-by-minute story of vaccines emerging over the past year has turned everyone into an armchair immunologist. Most people wouldn't normally have a clue who's making a vaccine they need for travel etc, let alone how they compare, but now people act like they're picking from a wine menu. The reality is we're damn well lucky to have any vaccine at all, and only a year after the pandemic kicked off.

tchalla 6y ago

Germany had to temporarily suspend vaccination for 2 days due to a legal requirement. Here’s an article which explains different angles to it. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/19/world/europe/europe-vaccine-astrazeneca-interpreter.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/19/world/europe/europe-vacci...

chithanh 6y ago
That article is quite uninformed. There was no legal requirement either, it was a purely political decision, based on the advice of the Paul-Ehrlich-Institute (PEI). The statistical anomality about the thrombosis cases was known before and not considered a reason to halt vaccination. Only when it became clear that these were CSVT combined with lowered platelet count (which is known to be caused by immune reaction), strongly suggesting a causal link, then the decision to halt vaccination was made, until the actual risk could be assessed.

WanderPanda 6y ago

Maybe the > They get their news from Russia. part is the one that needs addressing and not the other countries killing confidence by sending mixed signals. In the end it’s an evolutionary process, the ones who are right will survive with a higher probability. Also I am not totally ruling out the posibillity that the sceptical ones might be right in the end. Though I personally believe that it’s a no brainer to take the jab if you are above a certain age (50, 60 idk) or have other health issues.

holri 6y ago

Austria did never set AZ on hold.

ignoramous 6y ago

India has two vaccines in circulation both based on inactivated virus and surprisingly there's no such fud spreading around these parts. Though the lines at vaccine centers are not long, I know many who have gotten it, including 85+ year olds with comorbidities who suffered one or two chills but that's about it.

thrwoi4u23434 6y ago
Covishield is similar to Az/Ox vaccine and uses the AdV vector. Covaxin uses inactivated Cov2 viruses. Long wait times in B'luru earlier this month. That said, I don't think the vaccine or the disease mean too much to Indians (due to all sorts of factors). Wish the Govt. was looking at actual data and science rather than what their peers in other countries were doing. Looks like they'll be locking the country down and destroying parts of the economy that weren't destroyed by last year. Almost seems malicious at this point.
- sampo 6y ago
  > Covishield is similar to Az/Ox vaccine Covishield is the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, produced in India under a licence.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    That's important to know. Any idea how many doses have been used by now?
    - ignoramous 6y ago
      More than 40M according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_in_India
      - hef19898 6y ago
        Crazy idea, maybe we should import the AZ licensed vaccine to Europe and export the AZ branded one in exchange? Just kidding, thanks for the numbers!

downrightmike 6y ago

Just because your government didn't do the work, doesn't mean it falls to another to protect you. That is something you have to change at the ballot box.

swebs 6y ago

I seriously doubt most countries are just blindly following Denmark. The much more likely reason is that this specific vaccine offers very little protection against the rapidly spreading South African variant.

NicoJuicy 6y ago

> They get their news from Russia. That seems to be a bigger problem than other countries evaluating and re-evaluating the vaccine.

La1n 6y ago
https://brazilian.report/coronavirus-brazil-live-blog/2021/03/15/us-pressured-brazil-ditch-russias-sputnik-v-vaccine/ https://brazilian.report/coronavirus-brazil-live-blog/2021/0... A lot of countries are pressuring other countries in not using "other" vaccines these days.
- NicoJuicy 6y ago
  Russia didn't have phase 3 trials when it pitched to Brazil. So it does seem justified to me, they hurried up everything "to be the first". In the mean time, Europe has independent trials. But the news you are posting is from before that ( december 2020). Interim phase3 trial data was only published in February 2021: https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n743 https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n743
  - La1n 6y ago
    >"Combatting malign influences in the Americas: OGA used diplomatic relations in the Americas region to mitigate efforts by states, including Cuba, Venezuela, and Russia, who are working to increase their influence in the region to the detriment of US safety and security. OGA coordinated with other U.S. government agencies to strengthen diplomatic ties and offer technical and humanitarian assistance to dissuade countries in the region from accepting aid from these illintentioned states. Examples include using OGA’s Health Attaché office to persuade Brazil to reject the Russian COVID-19 vaccine, and offering CDC technical assistance in lieu of Panama accepting an offer of Cuban doctors. " This has nothing to do with phase 3 trials or it being rushed.... https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/2020-annual-report.pdf https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/2020-annual-report.p...
    - NicoJuicy 6y ago

topbanana 6y ago

It's a great shame. 61% of people in France now think the AZ vaccine is unsafe, up 18 percentage points on February. 55% of Germans think the AZ jab is unsafe, up 15 points on February. We can add Covid to the 'precautionary principle' victim list that already includes zero-carbon energy, and huge improvements in agricultural productivity.

dane-pgp 6y ago
> zero-carbon energy, and huge improvements in agricultural productivity. Just so we're clear, what you actually mean is "nuclear energy" and "genetically modified crops", right?
- h_anna_h 6y ago
  The GP should really work in marketing. They have the skill needed.

krzyk 6y ago

And in Poland they didn't stop vaccinating with AZ and it caused even more problems - at least 50% people are not going to their scheduled vaccination. This issue would be solved by: allowing people to choose vaccine they want (according to our government officials "they are all the same") or/and allow younger crowds to vaccinate.

ulucs 6y ago
> according to our government officials "they are all the same" Who can fault people for mistrusting their government, when they keep on lying and lying?

macspoofing 6y ago

> I fear the damage is done. For sure. After EU nations put the vaccine on hold, pretty much everyone in my circle of friends and family has decided to either not take this vaccine outright or is seriously considering not taking it. This is Canada.

londons_explore 6y ago

It's all a communications issue. I haven't seen any decent effort to explain to the regular public the scale of risks of anything. Yet it seems very possible. For example, each person could have presented to them a personal "health card", which showed to them what might happen to them in the next 10 years. It would have on it "Dies from Heart disease", "Covid", "run over by bus", "still living and healthy". Each would have area scaled by likelihood. Then they could be given another identical health card showing how their health outcomes would change with a vaccine. Upon seeing "Oh, I have more chance of being healthy in 10 years if I take this vaccine", they'd be much more likely to sign up. Likewise, after a cancer diagnosis, they can be given a new card with "dies of cancer" now being a massive area, and they can readjust their priorities. I think the trick is the cards must be customized for everyone, taking into account personal risk factors (age, do they smoke, how obese, past health issues, etc.) An entire government department could have as their job reading papers and coming up with a method to produce the cards as accurately as possible.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> the EU hesitance towards the AZ vaccine really started with the Danish government putting the vaccine on hold The hesitance started when Brussels got railed for failing at vaccine distribution.

hef19898 6y ago
Yep, around the same time the first, and completely wrong, article about AZ ineffectiveness came out in Germany. I have the impression that politicians wanted to save their behinds by sacrificing AZ and hoping things would solve themselves. Which they didn't, but now it's too late.

kmlx 6y ago

in another Eastern European country a nurse that was administering the vaccine was telling people to go home and not get vaccinated with the AZN vaccine when they came in to get vaccinated :)))

Viker 6y ago

You can not make any of these comparisons, Bulgaria is a very special country. 1-Prime minister is a thug and soon to assume dictators role. 2- Population is in HEAVY decline, unlike most places. 3- Most of the educated people emigrate abroad, and never return, in result the remaining population is mostly in "risk group" .. but it is not a group if its most. 4- 10% of the population (romes), do not count as Bulgarian and will not be vaccinated, so that is also a huge problem. And most of these factors are due to culture/mentality problems, that stem from within. So yeh. Bulgaria is not comparable to other countries

totalZero 6y ago

> I really wish richer nations would think more globally before they rush to such decisions. The Danish government has no obligation to base its public health policy on what is optically best for Bulgaria. Every Danish person should be able to expect that their government will act in the best interest of Denmark.