18 ms·

Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

165 points by curmudgeon22 6y ago

mc32 6y ago
Looks like a few things going on: Vaccination in JP lags the US and UK. A survey found 75% of locals don't favor foreign visitors for the Olympics. They are fearful of SARS-COV-2 variants. On the other hand, why not allow foreigners who can prove they are vaccinated with the vaccine that immunizes against variants and also get the locals vaccinated? And, implicitly, if Japan isn't trusting vaccines, should other countries have similar concerns about free travel?
- yannikyeo 6y ago
  It is not yet confirm that vaccinated people are not able to carry the virus and pass to others. One could still be infected after vaccinated. Please correct me if the latest study or vaccine shows otherwise.
- eric-hu 6y ago
  As far as I know, all versions of the vaccine reduce symptoms for the vaccinated, but they can still catch covid and transmit it to others. That’s a risk to a large unvaccinated local population.
  - timr 6y ago
    This is outdated speculation. The preponderance of current evidence points toward what we expect from previous vaccines -- once you've been immunized, you are incredibly unlikely to transmit the virus to others: https://reason.com/2021/03/08/contrary-to-what-the-cdcs-new-covid-19-advice-implies-there-is-strong-evidence-that-vaccination-curtails-virus-transmission/ https://reason.com/2021/03/08/contrary-to-what-the-cdcs-new-... In fact, the CDC just updated it's own guidelines to reflect these same facts: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/03/08/974783644/cdc-says-its-safe-for-vaccinated-people-to-do-these-activities https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/0... If anything, these guidelines are conservative.
    - Mountain_Skies 6y ago
      So no need to wear a mask then.
      - samatman 6y ago
        Yes this is actually correct. Continuing to wear a mask in public is about compliance, not safety per se: if exceptions were made for the vaccinated, people who just don't want to wear a mask would be hard to separate from those who are no longer at risk of catching or spreading the disease. As someone who has had natural immunity (it sucked, made a full recovery) for most of the pandemic, this has been on my mind, since masking is purely cosmetic for me.
        starfallg 6y ago
        This isn't stressed enough though. When dealing with such issues we also need to consider group behaviour as a whole. Every additional exception introduces costs and risks so it makes sense for a part of the population to signal compliance unnecessarily.
        Pyramus 6y ago
        Exactly. Plus there will likely be (small) additional benefits from reduced transmission for other diseases that are spread through respiratory droplets and aerosols.
    - eric-hu 6y ago
      From your cited Reason article: > During a follow-up period beginning seven days after the second dose, vaccinated subjects were 92 percent less likely to test positive for the coronavirus, 94 percent less likely to develop COVID-19 symptoms, and 92 percent less likely to suffer serious disease. In other words, the risk of infection at this stage was much smaller than it was in the unvaccinated group. Although that risk was not completely eliminated, the CDC notes that "preliminary data from Israel suggest that persons vaccinated with Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine who develop COVID-19 have a four-fold lower viral load than unvaccinated persons," which implies that they are less likely to transmit the virus even when they are infected. This seems consistent with what I wrote earlier. Further, from the NPR article: > Vaccinated people can also visit, unmasked, with people from another household who are not yet vaccinated, as long as those people are at low risk of serious illness from the virus. However, the agency said, vaccinated people should continue to wear masks when they're in public, avoid crowds and take other precautions when gathering with unvaccinated people who are at high risk of serious illness from COVID-19.
- toyg 6y ago
  > A survey found 75% of locals don't favor foreign visitors for the Olympics. Lol, it's Japan. I bet on any given day you could find that 75% of locals don't favor foreign something. (To be fair, they are not unique in this)
gallego2007 6y ago
That's too bad. Makes you wonder if they shouldn't cancel or delay for another year (with a reset to the timing of the games that follow) while the vaccines get rolled out and we see how much normalcy can be regained.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- burlesona 6y ago
  It's pretty brutal for the athletes to move the Olympics. It's already such a rare event that having a delay of even a year will mean some of them are missing what would have been their peak year physically - the more you delay it the worse that gets.
  - benrbray 6y ago
    The past year has been brutal for the entire world, and holding a championship for professional athletes doesn't really justify the billions of dollars Japan has lost in its decision to postpone the Olympics rather than cancel them. Japan isn't even currently granting long-term work visas for professionals who will contribute to the economy for multiple years, ostensibly to curb spread of the virus. Consequently, it's a bit silly that they will soon be allowing tens of thousands of Olympic employees and athletes to enter the country, who will all be exempt from the standard quarantine procedure.
    - whatastory 6y ago
      >Japan isn't even currently granting long-term work visas for professionals who will contribute to the economy for multiple years People are still able to move to Japan and visas are being granted. There's just a 2 week quarantine when people arrive.
      - benrbray 6y ago
        No, this is not true. There was a brief period from October-December where they began to issue work and student visas again, and I was let in to the country on a work visa during this time. However, on December 28, due to rising case numbers, Japan declared another national state of emergency and stopped issuing new visas. My partner has a job offer in Japan, but is currently unable to join me / start work due to the stoppage of new visas.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I feel like this has to be a negotiating tactic to get another year delay out of the IOC. The competitors and support staff alone are already tens of thousands of people, no? There’s just no way they’ll be able to throw the Olympics if they aren’t prepared to open the border.
- jhugo 6y ago
  Athletes and essential foreign workers would likely be allowed under existing expert/investment exemptions. It’s spectators that wouldn’t be able to enter.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
steelframe 6y ago
> it peaked at more than 2,500 cases per day in Tokyo That's 0.027% of the population of Tokyo per day in a city that has over 6,000 people packed in per square kilometer. By comparison, Idaho has a population density of 7.64 people per square kilometer, and right now the infection rate there is 0.021% of its population per day. That's only a 30% difference in percentage of population infected per day, but there are three orders of magnitude between their population densities! Whatever Tokyo is doing to keep COVID under control with such a crazy high population density, it looks like we've got an entire state over here in the U.S. that could still learn some of the basics.
- someperson 6y ago
  Taiwan (and Vietnam) both have high densities in their cities, but low COVID numbers.. So there's definitely countries that have handled it better than Japan.
  - AuryGlenz 6y ago
    I don’t think it’s a coincidence that all of the countries that are doing the best (that aren’t isolated islands) are in the same geographic region that the virus came from. Whether it’s some sort of evolved protection from a similar virus in the past or similar viruses being common in the present, there’s definitely a reason.
    - someperson 6y ago
      The success of countries like New Zealand, Taiwan, Vietnam and Australia is widely attributed stringent border control, localized quarantine and mass testing when outbreaks occur. I haven't seen any suggestions that the region has a higher acquired immunity to coronaviruses. And other countries in the region (Japan, Indonesia, India and China) had high numbers of infections and fatalities.
    - account42 6y ago
      > Whether it’s some sort of evolved protection from a similar virus in the past or similar viruses being common in the present, there’s definitely a reason. The virus you are looking fo is SARS - but I would guess it is more the government response rather than the individual immune response that has learned for it.
euske 6y ago
The sad truth is that COVID accelerated xenophobia and isolationism throughout the world, and Japan is no exception.
- Clewza313 6y ago
  Why the downvotes? Japan's COVID policy has been quite openly xenophobic: for a long time, Japanese citizens could return with minimal checks, but even permanent residents had an absolute bar on re-entry.
  - silverpepsi 6y ago
    I hope you don't mind me adding a concrete example because some people don't process this fully I have a friend who is a Westerner with a Japanese family, 2 young kids, has been there decades... she couldn't risk leaving the country to visit her own parents in an emergency because she would be prohibited from reentering Japan and seeing her husband and young children again for an undefined period of time. Ultimately that period ended up being something like 6~8 months before they finally changed the freaking law. The policy was unprecedented and illogical, I don't think any other extreme covid prevention countries went that far. Slightly mistiming a trip pre-covid and she would have been kept from her children for that many months, completely crazy
  - chrischen 6y ago
    Yea the r/movingtojapan thread is full of people complaining about how the policies seem to give Japanese citizens a free pass while blaming the importation of new virus strains on misbehaving foreigners (whether or not that's true). They've fully blocked immigration (not tourists—legal immigrants) despite fairly strict quarantine and testing policies.
    - tonfa 6y ago
      Is that unique to Japan though? (Had the impression that US hasn't been much better, and I'd guess Schengen as well at least to some level)
fomine3 6y ago
Tokyo Olympic situation is sucks for politics against covid. Gov softly ordered people/business to stay home, etc... , meanwhile they must make the event succeed with foreign people. It's inconsistent and it prevents strong operation. I wish they did this decision (or cancel the event) last year.
- thitcanh 6y ago
  English note: To suck is a verb, never put “is” before. I agree that the Tokyo Olympic situation sucks. Rather, it’s the worst of both worlds. I still remember that Tokyo started removing swastikas around the city because of the olympics around a year ago and that felt so backwards already then, before COVID.
HeavenFox 6y ago
This seems like the worst outcome for Japan and best outcome for the IOC. Japan incurs all the cost of hosting the Olympics while reaping none of the tourist yen, while the IOC gets paid the broadcasting fee. At this point the optimal outcome for Japan is probably to cancel the game altogether. Is it an example of the political pull of the IOC? The Asian culture of face-saving? Or plain old sunk cost fallacy? I honestly don't know.
- jelling 6y ago
  Perhaps it gives the population something to look forward to.
  - marakv2 6y ago
    We arnt looking forward to it. We never really wanted it. Edit: sorry that's a bit generic, but I have never heard anyone say they are looking forward to the Olympics locally, pre covid, and post, I hear a lot of people wtf'ing it's going ahead. It's completely anecdotal, but as a private teacher at 4 different schools I have a wide pool.
    - tkgally 6y ago
      I live and work in the Tokyo area, and my anecdata are similar to yours. Of the hundreds of people I know through work or private life, exactly two ever mentioned looking forward to the games, most seemed uninterested and passively resigned, and a few have been actively opposing them. The percentages would probably break down somewhat differently, though, if I knew more people in the travel industry or people whose primary information feed comes from the mainstream media, which were enthusiastic about the games up until COVID.
    - toyg 6y ago
      I think this is now the standard reaction of first-worlders whenever something like this is planned for their city. Everybody knows the costs are massive (and often being siphoned off by corrupt people) and the upsides very few; most people are unlikely to attend the events (they are typically very expensive); and the pain of construction will add misery to their everyday life for years in advance. The press typically reverts this outlook by going full-jingo once the event happens, and then "you" will be "proud" that your homeland could be so excellent and well-organized and now attracting even more tourists. Expect a horrifying overflow of basic nationalism. For Japan this will now be harder, but I'm sure a narrative will eventually emerge about resilience in the face of adversity and "showing the world" some of that proverbially-unbreakable Japanese spirit. And you won't have to endure a month of terrible commuting.
book-sandworm 6y ago
This is such a painful situation for Japan. When I visited a couple a years ago the preparations were still going full force. They were so proud and looking forward to hosting it. Really think they are between a rock and a hard place with any decision. This together with all the sub-human conditions the workers in Qatar for the football world championship make it seem like organising events like this not something I would feel comfortable with hosting in my own country. It seems like it's a combination of hot potato and ego projects for specific people in governments. hell, couple of years ago my country "won" the rights to host eurovision song festival. I'm not against investing money in a broad set of cultural activities. But looking at the amount of money it costed to host it felt not something that was worth the tax payers money. Rather we just payed the artists then all the pseudo glamour surrounding it.
- nikanj 6y ago
  You hopefully paid to attract loads of event tourists, who bring money to the local economy
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  > This together with all the sub-human conditions the workers in Qatar for the football world championship Are they not simply de factō slaves? deprived of a right to leave at their choosing? That the world accepts this shows well the hypocrisy of man. — I suppose that for all of his theoretical abhorrence by slavery, a good football match weights heavier than that.
  - toyg 6y ago
    I don't think "the world accepts it", but they are resigned to the fact that the moneyed interests powering these events are unstoppable. Which may or may not be true. Some of the opposition is even tactically waiting for the best time to make a stand - which might well be when the country is most exposed. See for example how the Yemeni Houti rebels tried to hit a Formula E event in Saudi Arabia with missiles. The worst thing, imho, is that Qatar is not even remotely the worst actor in the region. A World Cup in Saudi Arabia might well be inevitable over the next 20 years, and that will be even worse.
matsemann 6y ago
I hope big tournaments will be more distributed in the future. Like soccer, no need for Qatar to kill thousands to build lots of stadiums that won't be used much in the future. Do like the Euro was going to: Have multiple host cities and reuse existing stadiums. Olympics make everyone build a bob sleigh track. But it's such a niche sport and no one will ever use it again in most of the world. Or for summer olympics, one basically has to build an artificial river so a few people can kayak slalom. Cost of these things are huge, and will most often not be much used by the population after. Instead, split it so that existing stuff can be reused. While it's cool with an olympic city, having 3 or more is probably just as nice an experience.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Lillehammer repurposed their bob sleigh track into a tourist ride. I wonder how many other cities have done the same.
- fiftyfifty 6y ago
  Exactly this, the summer Olympics have gotten too big and too expensive to host in one city. The only reasonable path forward is to spread it out to multiple cities or even countries. Maybe the Olympics should be awarded by continent (sorry Australia). Things like building an artificial river for the whitewater course is a ridiculous waste of money. They can host events like that where a natural river can be used. There are Olympic caliber venues all over the world that could host an Olympic sport at any time with little modification, that should be taken into consideration when a city bids to host an Olympic event. I fear the only way things will change is if the world refuses to bid on hosting these things. Then the IOC will have to get creative if they want to see their corrupt legacy continue.
tobib 6y ago
> The committee now needs to proceed with refunding foreign ticket holders and it is expected to separately consider what to do with foreign spectators to be invited by corporate sponsors of the games. Depending on what they'll decide to do, I can clearly see this becoming a situation that many will consider unfair.
Taylor_OD 6y ago
I've been looking forward to attending the Tokyo Olympics since they were selected years and years ago. This is very sad.
waffletower 6y ago
It is easy to see this decision as isolationist and xenophobic as Japan has a deeply ingrained reputation for both. I find it unfortunate longer delays could not be considered, such that Japan would not further emphasize this insular narrative.
theparallel 6y ago
I think it is a wise solution, especially if we are trying to prevent Corona from spreading while also reducing the global damage form an eventual Akira incident.
Balgair 6y ago
Aside: I think that having the Olympics in one place for each season would be most 'entertaining', and better for the IOC. Let's take the summer Olympics, likely to be in Athens as the spot. 'Top' countries would then pay pretty good money to have practice locations around Athens, so that the athletes get used to the area and are comfortable with the event locations. Heck, you could have them use the actual facilities as well. Now, as is usual with Olympic coverage, the lead-up is all about how terrible things are going, and the ~two weeks of it are all about how the Olympic Village is running out of condoms. Not to be too crass, but having many athletes in Athens all the time would be a 24/7 discussion about very fit young people's intimate relationships and national pride. It's a TV goldmine. And one the IOC can license. Think about it: something like a HS-teen drama, with very beautiful/fit people, all in a crowded space, all competing together in disparate events, all with national pride on the line, and with a four year deadline for the 'show'. The relationships, of course, would be a big part of the idea, to further amp up the drama that the competition provides. Language barrier mishaps, tall-dark-hansomes, different dating customs, distant parents, coaches yelling, slipping out at night to abscond with a new relationship, national pride, crossing national barriers in friendship, creating new rivalries, the pressure cooker, etc. And then, at the end, the actual events and the epilogue that is a gold-medal ceremony after four years of hype. And all of it being done with the IOC getting a cut, possibly making even more cash so they go along with it. I think it would be great TV.

165 points by curmudgeon22 6y ago

mc32 6y ago

Looks like a few things going on: Vaccination in JP lags the US and UK. A survey found 75% of locals don't favor foreign visitors for the Olympics. They are fearful of SARS-COV-2 variants. On the other hand, why not allow foreigners who can prove they are vaccinated with the vaccine that immunizes against variants and also get the locals vaccinated? And, implicitly, if Japan isn't trusting vaccines, should other countries have similar concerns about free travel?

yannikyeo 6y ago
It is not yet confirm that vaccinated people are not able to carry the virus and pass to others. One could still be infected after vaccinated. Please correct me if the latest study or vaccine shows otherwise.
eric-hu 6y ago
As far as I know, all versions of the vaccine reduce symptoms for the vaccinated, but they can still catch covid and transmit it to others. That’s a risk to a large unvaccinated local population.
- timr 6y ago
  This is outdated speculation. The preponderance of current evidence points toward what we expect from previous vaccines -- once you've been immunized, you are incredibly unlikely to transmit the virus to others: https://reason.com/2021/03/08/contrary-to-what-the-cdcs-new-covid-19-advice-implies-there-is-strong-evidence-that-vaccination-curtails-virus-transmission/ https://reason.com/2021/03/08/contrary-to-what-the-cdcs-new-... In fact, the CDC just updated it's own guidelines to reflect these same facts: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/03/08/974783644/cdc-says-its-safe-for-vaccinated-people-to-do-these-activities https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/0... If anything, these guidelines are conservative.
  - Mountain_Skies 6y ago
    So no need to wear a mask then.
    - samatman 6y ago
      Yes this is actually correct. Continuing to wear a mask in public is about compliance, not safety per se: if exceptions were made for the vaccinated, people who just don't want to wear a mask would be hard to separate from those who are no longer at risk of catching or spreading the disease. As someone who has had natural immunity (it sucked, made a full recovery) for most of the pandemic, this has been on my mind, since masking is purely cosmetic for me.
      - starfallg 6y ago
        This isn't stressed enough though. When dealing with such issues we also need to consider group behaviour as a whole. Every additional exception introduces costs and risks so it makes sense for a part of the population to signal compliance unnecessarily.
        Pyramus 6y ago
        Exactly. Plus there will likely be (small) additional benefits from reduced transmission for other diseases that are spread through respiratory droplets and aerosols.
  - eric-hu 6y ago
    From your cited Reason article: > During a follow-up period beginning seven days after the second dose, vaccinated subjects were 92 percent less likely to test positive for the coronavirus, 94 percent less likely to develop COVID-19 symptoms, and 92 percent less likely to suffer serious disease. In other words, the risk of infection at this stage was much smaller than it was in the unvaccinated group. Although that risk was not completely eliminated, the CDC notes that "preliminary data from Israel suggest that persons vaccinated with Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine who develop COVID-19 have a four-fold lower viral load than unvaccinated persons," which implies that they are less likely to transmit the virus even when they are infected. This seems consistent with what I wrote earlier. Further, from the NPR article: > Vaccinated people can also visit, unmasked, with people from another household who are not yet vaccinated, as long as those people are at low risk of serious illness from the virus. However, the agency said, vaccinated people should continue to wear masks when they're in public, avoid crowds and take other precautions when gathering with unvaccinated people who are at high risk of serious illness from COVID-19.
toyg 6y ago
> A survey found 75% of locals don't favor foreign visitors for the Olympics. Lol, it's Japan. I bet on any given day you could find that 75% of locals don't favor foreign something. (To be fair, they are not unique in this)

gallego2007 6y ago

That's too bad. Makes you wonder if they shouldn't cancel or delay for another year (with a reset to the timing of the games that follow) while the vaccines get rolled out and we see how much normalcy can be regained.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
burlesona 6y ago
It's pretty brutal for the athletes to move the Olympics. It's already such a rare event that having a delay of even a year will mean some of them are missing what would have been their peak year physically - the more you delay it the worse that gets.
- benrbray 6y ago
  The past year has been brutal for the entire world, and holding a championship for professional athletes doesn't really justify the billions of dollars Japan has lost in its decision to postpone the Olympics rather than cancel them. Japan isn't even currently granting long-term work visas for professionals who will contribute to the economy for multiple years, ostensibly to curb spread of the virus. Consequently, it's a bit silly that they will soon be allowing tens of thousands of Olympic employees and athletes to enter the country, who will all be exempt from the standard quarantine procedure.
  - whatastory 6y ago
    >Japan isn't even currently granting long-term work visas for professionals who will contribute to the economy for multiple years People are still able to move to Japan and visas are being granted. There's just a 2 week quarantine when people arrive.
    - benrbray 6y ago
      No, this is not true. There was a brief period from October-December where they began to issue work and student visas again, and I was let in to the country on a work visa during this time. However, on December 28, due to rising case numbers, Japan declared another national state of emergency and stopped issuing new visas. My partner has a job offer in Japan, but is currently unable to join me / start work due to the stoppage of new visas.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

I feel like this has to be a negotiating tactic to get another year delay out of the IOC. The competitors and support staff alone are already tens of thousands of people, no? There’s just no way they’ll be able to throw the Olympics if they aren’t prepared to open the border.

jhugo 6y ago
Athletes and essential foreign workers would likely be allowed under existing expert/investment exemptions. It’s spectators that wouldn’t be able to enter.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

steelframe 6y ago

> it peaked at more than 2,500 cases per day in Tokyo That's 0.027% of the population of Tokyo per day in a city that has over 6,000 people packed in per square kilometer. By comparison, Idaho has a population density of 7.64 people per square kilometer, and right now the infection rate there is 0.021% of its population per day. That's only a 30% difference in percentage of population infected per day, but there are three orders of magnitude between their population densities! Whatever Tokyo is doing to keep COVID under control with such a crazy high population density, it looks like we've got an entire state over here in the U.S. that could still learn some of the basics.

someperson 6y ago
Taiwan (and Vietnam) both have high densities in their cities, but low COVID numbers.. So there's definitely countries that have handled it better than Japan.
- AuryGlenz 6y ago
  I don’t think it’s a coincidence that all of the countries that are doing the best (that aren’t isolated islands) are in the same geographic region that the virus came from. Whether it’s some sort of evolved protection from a similar virus in the past or similar viruses being common in the present, there’s definitely a reason.
  - someperson 6y ago
    The success of countries like New Zealand, Taiwan, Vietnam and Australia is widely attributed stringent border control, localized quarantine and mass testing when outbreaks occur. I haven't seen any suggestions that the region has a higher acquired immunity to coronaviruses. And other countries in the region (Japan, Indonesia, India and China) had high numbers of infections and fatalities.
  - account42 6y ago
    > Whether it’s some sort of evolved protection from a similar virus in the past or similar viruses being common in the present, there’s definitely a reason. The virus you are looking fo is SARS - but I would guess it is more the government response rather than the individual immune response that has learned for it.

euske 6y ago

The sad truth is that COVID accelerated xenophobia and isolationism throughout the world, and Japan is no exception.

Clewza313 6y ago
Why the downvotes? Japan's COVID policy has been quite openly xenophobic: for a long time, Japanese citizens could return with minimal checks, but even permanent residents had an absolute bar on re-entry.
- silverpepsi 6y ago
  I hope you don't mind me adding a concrete example because some people don't process this fully I have a friend who is a Westerner with a Japanese family, 2 young kids, has been there decades... she couldn't risk leaving the country to visit her own parents in an emergency because she would be prohibited from reentering Japan and seeing her husband and young children again for an undefined period of time. Ultimately that period ended up being something like 6~8 months before they finally changed the freaking law. The policy was unprecedented and illogical, I don't think any other extreme covid prevention countries went that far. Slightly mistiming a trip pre-covid and she would have been kept from her children for that many months, completely crazy
- chrischen 6y ago
  Yea the r/movingtojapan thread is full of people complaining about how the policies seem to give Japanese citizens a free pass while blaming the importation of new virus strains on misbehaving foreigners (whether or not that's true). They've fully blocked immigration (not tourists—legal immigrants) despite fairly strict quarantine and testing policies.
  - tonfa 6y ago
    Is that unique to Japan though? (Had the impression that US hasn't been much better, and I'd guess Schengen as well at least to some level)

fomine3 6y ago

Tokyo Olympic situation is sucks for politics against covid. Gov softly ordered people/business to stay home, etc... , meanwhile they must make the event succeed with foreign people. It's inconsistent and it prevents strong operation. I wish they did this decision (or cancel the event) last year.

thitcanh 6y ago
English note: To suck is a verb, never put “is” before. I agree that the Tokyo Olympic situation sucks. Rather, it’s the worst of both worlds. I still remember that Tokyo started removing swastikas around the city because of the olympics around a year ago and that felt so backwards already then, before COVID.

HeavenFox 6y ago

This seems like the worst outcome for Japan and best outcome for the IOC. Japan incurs all the cost of hosting the Olympics while reaping none of the tourist yen, while the IOC gets paid the broadcasting fee. At this point the optimal outcome for Japan is probably to cancel the game altogether. Is it an example of the political pull of the IOC? The Asian culture of face-saving? Or plain old sunk cost fallacy? I honestly don't know.

jelling 6y ago
Perhaps it gives the population something to look forward to.
- marakv2 6y ago
  We arnt looking forward to it. We never really wanted it. Edit: sorry that's a bit generic, but I have never heard anyone say they are looking forward to the Olympics locally, pre covid, and post, I hear a lot of people wtf'ing it's going ahead. It's completely anecdotal, but as a private teacher at 4 different schools I have a wide pool.
  - tkgally 6y ago
    I live and work in the Tokyo area, and my anecdata are similar to yours. Of the hundreds of people I know through work or private life, exactly two ever mentioned looking forward to the games, most seemed uninterested and passively resigned, and a few have been actively opposing them. The percentages would probably break down somewhat differently, though, if I knew more people in the travel industry or people whose primary information feed comes from the mainstream media, which were enthusiastic about the games up until COVID.
  - toyg 6y ago
    I think this is now the standard reaction of first-worlders whenever something like this is planned for their city. Everybody knows the costs are massive (and often being siphoned off by corrupt people) and the upsides very few; most people are unlikely to attend the events (they are typically very expensive); and the pain of construction will add misery to their everyday life for years in advance. The press typically reverts this outlook by going full-jingo once the event happens, and then "you" will be "proud" that your homeland could be so excellent and well-organized and now attracting even more tourists. Expect a horrifying overflow of basic nationalism. For Japan this will now be harder, but I'm sure a narrative will eventually emerge about resilience in the face of adversity and "showing the world" some of that proverbially-unbreakable Japanese spirit. And you won't have to endure a month of terrible commuting.

book-sandworm 6y ago

This is such a painful situation for Japan. When I visited a couple a years ago the preparations were still going full force. They were so proud and looking forward to hosting it. Really think they are between a rock and a hard place with any decision. This together with all the sub-human conditions the workers in Qatar for the football world championship make it seem like organising events like this not something I would feel comfortable with hosting in my own country. It seems like it's a combination of hot potato and ego projects for specific people in governments. hell, couple of years ago my country "won" the rights to host eurovision song festival. I'm not against investing money in a broad set of cultural activities. But looking at the amount of money it costed to host it felt not something that was worth the tax payers money. Rather we just payed the artists then all the pseudo glamour surrounding it.

nikanj 6y ago
You hopefully paid to attract loads of event tourists, who bring money to the local economy
Blikkentrekker 6y ago
> This together with all the sub-human conditions the workers in Qatar for the football world championship Are they not simply de factō slaves? deprived of a right to leave at their choosing? That the world accepts this shows well the hypocrisy of man. — I suppose that for all of his theoretical abhorrence by slavery, a good football match weights heavier than that.
- toyg 6y ago
  I don't think "the world accepts it", but they are resigned to the fact that the moneyed interests powering these events are unstoppable. Which may or may not be true. Some of the opposition is even tactically waiting for the best time to make a stand - which might well be when the country is most exposed. See for example how the Yemeni Houti rebels tried to hit a Formula E event in Saudi Arabia with missiles. The worst thing, imho, is that Qatar is not even remotely the worst actor in the region. A World Cup in Saudi Arabia might well be inevitable over the next 20 years, and that will be even worse.

matsemann 6y ago

I hope big tournaments will be more distributed in the future. Like soccer, no need for Qatar to kill thousands to build lots of stadiums that won't be used much in the future. Do like the Euro was going to: Have multiple host cities and reuse existing stadiums. Olympics make everyone build a bob sleigh track. But it's such a niche sport and no one will ever use it again in most of the world. Or for summer olympics, one basically has to build an artificial river so a few people can kayak slalom. Cost of these things are huge, and will most often not be much used by the population after. Instead, split it so that existing stuff can be reused. While it's cool with an olympic city, having 3 or more is probably just as nice an experience.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Lillehammer repurposed their bob sleigh track into a tourist ride. I wonder how many other cities have done the same.
fiftyfifty 6y ago
Exactly this, the summer Olympics have gotten too big and too expensive to host in one city. The only reasonable path forward is to spread it out to multiple cities or even countries. Maybe the Olympics should be awarded by continent (sorry Australia). Things like building an artificial river for the whitewater course is a ridiculous waste of money. They can host events like that where a natural river can be used. There are Olympic caliber venues all over the world that could host an Olympic sport at any time with little modification, that should be taken into consideration when a city bids to host an Olympic event. I fear the only way things will change is if the world refuses to bid on hosting these things. Then the IOC will have to get creative if they want to see their corrupt legacy continue.

tobib 6y ago

> The committee now needs to proceed with refunding foreign ticket holders and it is expected to separately consider what to do with foreign spectators to be invited by corporate sponsors of the games. Depending on what they'll decide to do, I can clearly see this becoming a situation that many will consider unfair.

Taylor_OD 6y ago

I've been looking forward to attending the Tokyo Olympics since they were selected years and years ago. This is very sad.

waffletower 6y ago

It is easy to see this decision as isolationist and xenophobic as Japan has a deeply ingrained reputation for both. I find it unfortunate longer delays could not be considered, such that Japan would not further emphasize this insular narrative.

theparallel 6y ago

I think it is a wise solution, especially if we are trying to prevent Corona from spreading while also reducing the global damage form an eventual Akira incident.

Balgair 6y ago

Aside: I think that having the Olympics in one place for each season would be most 'entertaining', and better for the IOC. Let's take the summer Olympics, likely to be in Athens as the spot. 'Top' countries would then pay pretty good money to have practice locations around Athens, so that the athletes get used to the area and are comfortable with the event locations. Heck, you could have them use the actual facilities as well. Now, as is usual with Olympic coverage, the lead-up is all about how terrible things are going, and the ~two weeks of it are all about how the Olympic Village is running out of condoms. Not to be too crass, but having many athletes in Athens all the time would be a 24/7 discussion about very fit young people's intimate relationships and national pride. It's a TV goldmine. And one the IOC can license. Think about it: something like a HS-teen drama, with very beautiful/fit people, all in a crowded space, all competing together in disparate events, all with national pride on the line, and with a four year deadline for the 'show'. The relationships, of course, would be a big part of the idea, to further amp up the drama that the competition provides. Language barrier mishaps, tall-dark-hansomes, different dating customs, distant parents, coaches yelling, slipping out at night to abscond with a new relationship, national pride, crossing national barriers in friendship, creating new rivalries, the pressure cooker, etc. And then, at the end, the actual events and the epilogue that is a gold-medal ceremony after four years of hype. And all of it being done with the IOC getting a cut, possibly making even more cash so they go along with it. I think it would be great TV.