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I still cannot get over this product. They whole selling point of a dyson fan is the 'air multiplier' tech, which creates a low pressure zone that propels air
by ortusdux 6y ago
I still cannot get over this product. They whole selling point of a dyson fan is the 'air multiplier' tech, which creates a low pressure zone that propels air through the ring. According to dyson, this tech can move 15x more air than the fan in the base of the unit. Why in the world would you build an air filter around a system that does not directly interact with 93% of the air it moves?
https://www.jameco.com/Jameco/workshop/Howitworks/dysonairmultiplier.html https://www.jameco.com/Jameco/workshop/Howitworks/dysonairmu...
- timthorn 6y agoThe idea is that the fan is deployed in a closed room and over time, all the air in the room will be circulated through the filter.
- wincy 6y agoBut isn't using a fan too long in an enclosed room dangerous? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death
- mmastrac 6y agoNo. This is yet another urban myth. "Despite no concrete evidence to support the concept, belief in fan death persists to this day in Korea,[further explanation needed] and also to a lesser extent in Japan.[1][2][3]"
- ortusdux 6y agoIIRC, this myth stems from a successful govt propaganda campaign that aimed to reduce power usage at night and put an end to rolling blackouts.
- mminer237 6y agoThe Wikipedia article cites that as being yet another myth, although it is disproven by evidence of belief in fan death long before the blackouts.
- WillPostForFood 6y agoThe wiki page links to the EPA which does advise against fans in a closed room when it is over 90F: Don't Use a portable electric fan in a closed room without windows or doors open to the outside. ... Don't Use a portable electric fan to blow extremely hot air on yourself. This can accelerate the risk of heat exhaustion. ... Don't direct the flow of portable electric fans toward yourself when room temperature is hotter than 90 °F."
- kemayo 6y agoThat one's interesting in part because South Korea mostly doesn't get that hot. (Summer highs seem to be mid-80s Fahrenheit.) Looking at climate data for the country, I was struck by how similar it is to upper Missouri. Saint Louis is about as humid, but a bit hotter on average. Which would make me suspect that if "fan death" was a thing, we'd be seeing it in a band of US States that're similarly hot and humid. Speculative difference would be if air conditioning is really uncommon in South Korea, but presumably we could even that out by comparing to poorer people in the US.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y agoI'm sure the comment was sarcastic.
- encom 6y agoBetter downvote, just to make sure. --Hackernews
- wincy 6y agoHaha I deserve the downvotes, it’s okay. I was being dumb because I thought it was funny.
- smcl 6y agoIt's a shame, I realised you were joking and I liked it. I think the idiomatic HN way to indicate this unambiguously but subtly is ending with "/s" for "sarcasm"
- nottorp 6y agoHN doesn't appreciate funny.
- darkerside 6y agoIt is funny :) I grew up believing in it (because my parents), and it took me a while to shake. At some point it became more of a superstition, but was still nervous to leave it on overnight...
- bloomingeek 6y agoI have worked night shift for 30 years. I sleep with a box fan in my bedroom with the door shut to filter out noise. Works really well.
- renerthr 6y agoThe Japanese version of that Wikipedia article has the Japanese phrase for "Urban legend" in the title, unlike the English version. The literal translation of that title would be "Urban legend of electric fan".
- djrogers 6y agoNo, it’s not.
- solarmist 6y agoLol. Been a while since I’ve seen that.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- gmfawcett 6y agoTo the downvoters on wincy's comment: please let's not downvote people for asking questions, or just because you believe they are misinformed -- that's what replies are for.
- pdpi 6y agoYou shouldn't downvote people for asking questions, but asking a question and supporting it with a link that tells you the answer is fair game, especially when your "question" is an argument hidden behind a question mark, and the link disproves that argument. There is, of course, the possibility that wincy's comment was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, though. I personally can't quite tell which way it was meant.
- gmfawcett 6y agoI guess I was being charitable, and imagining that the poster might be a Korean of a certain age where this myth held weight. The article suggests that young Koreans have changed attitudes, but that doesn't mean that everyone has. I think the comment replies to his question did a fine job challenging the myth. Obviously it's just my opinion, but I'd rather save downvotes for people who were clearly trolling or maliciously off-topic (and I don't see that here).
- pdpi 6y agoTo be clear, I didn't downvote their comment — I don't think it warranted it — I'm just saying I can sympathise with the argument that a comment that doesn't add anything useful to the discussion is a fair target for a downvote. Saying "But what about x?" when you yourself provide a link that says that X is a non-issue doesn't make for an engaging discussion. "But what about x? This link suggests it's not a problem but I think it is because of y" does make for an engaging discussion, even if y is seemingly nonsense.
- gmfawcett 6y agoThat's a fair point. Thanks for the respectful conversation about this. :)
- adolph 6y agoSome effects of extremely low frequency electromagnetic fields (ELF-EMFs) on human spermatozoaare reported. Significant increases in the values of the motility and of the other kinematic parameters have been observed when spermatozoa were exposed to an ELF-EMF with a square waveform of 5 mTamplitude and frequency of 50 Hz. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/bem.20278 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/bem.20278
- Karawebnetwork 6y agoI live in a large loft-style apartment on two floors which is actually a large room. There are only a few windows and they are placed in a way that no air draft gets created. When I bought a purifier, one of the things I was looking for was air movement. I position my Dyson so that there's a draft throughout the apartment. I thought this would improve the air filtration because the air would move through my home and eventually reach my purifier. My previous experience with a purifier was a Honeywell tower that didn't move air. I noticed an improvement when I switched to a unit that moves air better. Am I wrong? Should I give up Dyson anyway and choose another product?
- ortusdux 6y agoMy issue is the cost. My local costco has these units in store for $800 USD. Further down the isle they have oscillating tower fans for $30, and smart air filters for $100. I bought two pairs of each before winter. The fans are quiet, have plenty of control options, and non-volatle memory so you can use them with smart plugs. The air purifiers are 4 stage, with active charcoal and a long life (6 mo, 20$) hepa filter. They are wifi enabled, monitor and log air quality, and controllable from a phone. The purifiers should filter my bedroom's air once every 10 minutes, and ~15 min for my living room. This was all under 300$. Edit: to answer your question, the regular dyson fans are great. They quietly and efficiently move air. Pointing one at a real air filter should really help the filter do its job. My issue is that dyson built a small filter into their fans and doubled the price.
- hoytschermerhrn 6y agoDyson, like Apple, doesn’t make products for nerds like us who are willing to go through that level of effort. Their prices are high because their products are simple and “just work” without much fiddling.
- TeMPOraL 6y agoWhat's being questioned here is whether this product actually works (as air filter, as advertised).
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago15 x 7% = 105% Obviously that's not how those numbers work, but you get the idea: it's not necessary to filter all the air at once.
- ortusdux 6y agoI rounded up to be generous.
- renerthr 6y ago1. I concluded that's what you did, but found it a bit annoying. 100x15/16=93.75 . I find it unnecessarily confusing (as the parent commenter probably did) to round it to 93, when the correct rounding is 94. 2. The article says "15x more", so the right math would be 100x16/17=94.12 .
- ortusdux 6y agoThis is exactly the kind of pedantry I was trying to avoid by rounding. Fan X moves "15x more" air than fan Y. For every 1 unit of air fan X moves, Y will move 1x15 = 15 units. In the time it takes fan Y to move 100 units of air, fan X will move 100*(1/15) units, or 6 2/3rds units. 6.666... rounds to 7.
- numpad0 6y agoFan intakes on non-purifying Dyson do get plugged with dust over time, so it makes sense to add filters. Aside from whether it makes sense to advertise them as air purifiers.
- hangonhn 6y agoThat makes me wonder if that was how the product originated. Dyson realizes its fans have a problem. Engineers suggest an air filter. Marketing see an opportunity.
- wombatmobile 6y agoThe Dyson marketing person's angle is a sleight of hand: "Dyson has developed its own testing methodology, the POLAR test method, which, unlike the CADR, Hill said, "measures the intelligence of the purifier, the ability for it to know when that room is clean or dirty and automatically react, and its ability to mix that pure air around the room." The detection function seems of spurious value if the device is operating at max capacity regardless of whether a pollutant is detected or not. Is that the case, or does the Dyson adjust volumetric flow to match the detected level of pollutants? That would make sense in the case of smoke, although humans could detect smoke and turn the device on or off accordingly. COVID19 particles are a different case. If the Dyson can detect those and switch itself on, eliminating the virus from the room, $800 is a bargain. But it can't.
- zaphirplane 6y agoThe latter. It works harder proportionally to the pollution detected
- amelius 6y agoTrue, but that's only a secondary effect from the user's point of view.
- radicaldreamer 6y agoFor recurring revenue… selling only the fan, you get one sale and you’re done. Selling the fan but with a filter unit, some subset of customers will replace the filter every 6 months as “recommended” and you have recurring revenue on that fan forever.
- cptskippy 6y agoDyson filters aren't consumables. You wash them out and reuse them.
- soylentcola 6y agoThen I imagine part of it is the fact that people are willing to spend $x on a fan (of any sort) and $x+y on an air purifier. If an air purifier is generally accepted to be a higher-price item, then making a fan into one with some sort of filter helps justify the higher price. (Just speculation, though. I have no info about their design or marketing decisions.)
- kelvie 6y agoAre they? We have a modern unit (with the 2 stage filter), adn they send a notification when you have to buy a new one, for $99 CAD
- ortusdux 6y agoWow, they have a payment plan for the filters. https://www.dyson.com/support/journey/tools/970341-01 https://www.dyson.com/support/journey/tools/970341-01
- detritus 6y agoThe company famed for creating bagless vacuums added a 'bag' to a product that doesn't necessarily need it? Dyson's stance on Brexit makes ever more sense... .
- ashtonkem 6y ago
- Aunche 6y ago> Why in the world would you build an air filter around a system that does not directly interact with 93% of the air it moves? Dyson fans produce a continuous stream of air. Regular fans produce choppy air. I don't think anyone actually notices this effect until you point it out though.
- odux 6y agoAnd, in my experience, a lot of noise. Way more than a regular fan for the same perceived amount of air flow.
- xyzzy_plugh 6y agoWhat? My Dyson fan is incredibly quiet compared to any other fan I've used.
- souprock 6y agoThis dispute could be a matter of frequency range. Older ears can't hear high pitch. If the Dyson noise is mostly high pitch, older ears will perceive it as quieter.
- IndySun 6y agoI agree on the noise of the Dyson. The quietest Dyson fans are not that quiet. I work in studios that require quiet fans. A Dyson fan that rotates is especially noisy due to the squeaking motor. If you need a quiet portable fan/filter find one that is static and has more than 7-8 speeds, preferably in double figures - and put it close to where you want the air, on low.
- MockObject 6y agoI searched for quiet fans, and could never find any reputed to be quieter than Dyson. I'd love a recommendation, if possible.
- u678u 6y agoI think its a good quality fan and a fan heater that also purifies. Purification isn't its only goal, so if you care only about that just get a purifier. Presumably the cheap DIY box did a bad job at heating the air.
- ortusdux 6y agoCheck out dyson's website. They don't even list fans on their product page. It's just variations of air purifiers. They are all advertised first and foremost as purifiers. https://i.imgur.com/GaYU6ZD.png https://i.imgur.com/GaYU6ZD.png https://www.dyson.com/air-treatment https://www.dyson.com/air-treatment
- ihuman 6y agoI don't think they sell the non-purifier ones anymore. Google searching led me to a page with a mix of purifier and non-purifier fans [0], but the links either bring me to the "air-treatment" section or break completely. [0] https://www.dyson.com/fans-and-heaters https://www.dyson.com/fans-and-heaters
- fossuser 6y agoThe fan also sucks compared to something like a Vornado. "Buffeting" of air is not a practical issue when using a fan - you want a fan that can create a lot of air flow. The Dyson fan comes across form first then making up reasons to explain the form retroactively. It feels like an interesting look is the goal rather than something that's actually better. Am I wrong about this? Do people that have the fan like it? Is it better? I've only played with one in a store, but haven't owned one myself. I have owned Vornado fans which I liked. Another one that comes to mind is the Molekule air filter which is basically fraud. Large HEPA filters work, people should use them. My favorite: https://medifyair.com/ https://medifyair.com/
- victor106 6y agoWhy is the medifyair your favorite? I wasn’t able to find any reviews I could trust on it.
- fossuser 6y agoI have a bunch of air filters (I live in the bay area during fire season). Coway Air Mega Coway Mighty Blue Air Medify Air They're basically all equivalent and they all work. The reason I like the Medifyair is because it can move the largest volume of air relative to those so it can clear a space quickly (and quietly). I also think it looks nice (though it is huge). Of the rest, the Blue Air uses weird custom filters which I think cost a little more (though I haven't had to replace them yet). The Coway Mighty is also pretty small and mostly for a tiny room. Relatedly, if you're interested in sensors I think the TemTop sensors are the best (I've tried a bunch of different ones, and a lot of them suck). Some details on this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirQuality/comments/ikf1ed/are_there_any_good_air_sensors/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AirQuality/comments/ikf1ed/are_ther...
- hedora 6y agoWirecutter has a review of one of the Medifyair models. They don't recommend it because it's too big, and overkill for their test apartment in New York City. It had the highest CADR in their testing. For a modest house in the Bay Area during fire season, we needed a high MERV furnace filter and also two filters similar to their recommended models, so I moved up to the Medifyair. It arrived after the last fires, but it seems to work extremely well. Hopefully, we won't need it this year...
- cjohansson 6y agoDon't underestimate the placebo-effect of having a Dyson, regardless of it's physical effects. This is what you can do with a premium brand.. only a Dyson is like a Dyson
- Theodores 6y agoDon't underestimate the bad mouthing effect of having a Dyson. Relatives, neighbours and friends will be making judgements. Because everyone has an opinion on Dyson they will gossip. Might as well join a religious cult.
- ryeguy_24 6y agoIsn’t “creation of a low pressure zone” a fancy term for a fan?
- pjkundert 6y agoNo open air filter system interacts with more than a small volume of the air in a space! So long as it cycles the air frequently enough, eventually it will capture particles proportional to its basic filtration capability.
- andbberger 6y agoYeah that's not true, diffusion exists.
- pjkundert 6y agoDiffusion is precisely why open-air filters (filters that draw in a portion of the air and filter it) work! The Dyson filter is an open-air filter, that draws a small sample of the air through a filter, and passes the rest through unfiltered. Each pass reduces the average (diffused) load of contaminants. Two identically effective filters with different flow rates will eventually achieve a specified target diffused contaminant load in the air in the space; the only difference will be the time taken to achieve this (given a fixed initial contaminant load). This should be clear...
- andbberger 6y agoI agree with the second statement, was disagreeing with 'only interacts with a small volume of air'
- Spooky23 6y agoEverything Dyson is overpriced dreck, except for the handheld. 5% more function for 200% more $. Cheap vacuums are way better than they were. I bought a $60 upright at target for my office 5 years ago, it sucks (in the good sense) and is reliable. It does not have a ton of attachments, but it was $60.
- risyachka 6y agoExpensive vacuums are usually more quiet and, what is more important, are way better at filtering the output air, whereas cheaper ones - sure, they work, but they let a ton of dust out. For people with allergies this is a big selling point.
- neuronic 6y agoThere is next to no reason to buy a Dyson v11 if you can also get a Roborock H6. I made my experiences here and prefer the vastly cheaper Roborock which has precisly the same build quality. To be fair, the Dyson outperforms it very minimally in suction (I'd say like 5% better) but that doesn't justify the near double price. Also the Roborock has a 'lock' button and a much better wall mount in my opinion. It's battery is Lithium-Polymer and cleaning the vacuum is easier. Marketing is the only reason why anyone would buy a Dyson v11 over a Roborock H6.
- citrusybread 6y agoMiele vacuums are less expensive and do a better job at filtering. They're also basically unkillable. Panasonic used to also make great vacuums. Basically any canister vacuum will be well-equipped. Dyson is vacuums what Beats are to headphones.
- bostonsre 6y agoTheir app and particulant metrics/ graphing are kind of neat and user friendly. You can do stuff like have it run on a schedule or run when air quality gets below a certain threshold. I knew that there were better cost for air purifying options out there, but the metrics and graphing kind of sold me.
- ortusdux 6y agoThe filters I got at Costco for $100 on sale have these features too. https://imgur.com/a/ntgCwbl https://imgur.com/a/ntgCwbl
- bluishgreen 6y agoFallacy! The air stays in the room and will be cycled into the filter 7% at a time. Given the output volume and the typical volume of a room, this could be multiple times every hour.