18 ms·

Split keyboards and how to build them

253 points by punkspider 6y ago

Renaud 6y ago
Zack Freedman's youtube channel is gold and he recently released a pretty comprehensive (and hilarious) tutorial on building your own mechanical keyboard as a getting started project into building electronics. Split keyboards are also mentioned. How to Build MECHANICAL KEYBOARDS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcNi9hKxDk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcNi9hKxDk
- deleted 6y ago
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ezluckyfree 6y ago
I built an Iris split ergo keyboard, and it's great. Most of the cost comes from the switches and keycaps (I used Zilents and a PMK set), but honestly spending a lot of money on something I probably spent >10 hours touching each day is totally worth it. It also takes a while to get used to the lack of keys, particularly arrow keys, and various brackets for programming. However, training myself to use layers rather than moving my hand around to push them makes me much more efficient. I plan to move to a design with even fewer keys, and since the switches and keycaps can be moved to another board, it won't be as expensive.
- 1-more 6y ago
  Also on an Iris (this very second) having moved from a Let's Split. I'm a HUGE proponent of hold/tap for modifiers and programming brackets. All the ones I use most are under my thumbs with that change. I actually have symmetric modifiers on the thumbs because I effectively have double the keys. Also all my layer changes are from holding down F, D, or S which turns the right half into (respectively) arrows, numpad, and symbol pad.
dexwiz 6y ago
I looked at building these this summer. Ultimately I decided I wanted a split keyboard, but didn't want to learn a new ortho layout or spend $300. I ended up buying a Kinesis Freestyle 2, which is one of the few "normal" split keyboards. I liked it so much I bought a second one with the Mac Meta keys, so I still ended up spending $300 anyways, but got two keyboards. What I didn't do was spend an extra $50 on the tilt kit; a few chair leg pads as spacers was enough for me. I have wide shoulders, bringing my heads together to type all day makes my chest tight and my back hunch. Getting a split keyboard has been my best ergo improvement since a decent chair.
- voicedYoda 6y ago
  I have a Kinesis freestyle 2 I picked up for a steal (about $20). I looked at the tenting hardware and other add ons, and determined some old odds and ends give it enough lift. I need to replace some keys, but it's been amazing. Like you, I'm broad chested, and know the spacing is super important.
  - bartvk 6y ago
    That's a deal like I've never seen it, congrats. I already considered myself lucky to get it for 60 euros (US$ 72). If anyone considers getting one as well, it's worth to see if Amazon has returns. What I like about the Freestyle2, is that it's quite flat. What I don't like, is that there isn't a menu/option key on the right keyboard.
- erjiang 6y ago
  I'm currently using a Freestyle 2 but very tempted to get one of the keyboards featured in the linked page. The main gripe I have with the Freestyle 2 is that I'd like to be able to separate the two keyboard halves much farther. I wish the cord between the two halves wasn't so short and hard to replace. The other gripes are minor: don't really love the switches, the volume buttons don't work on Linux, and the tilt kit is a little annoying when I move the keyboard around (which I do a lot).
  - acjohnson55 6y ago
autocorr 6y ago
The prices can be steep for pre-built split-keyboards, between $200-300 USD, but if anyone has access to a university laser cutter or makerspace they can actually quite cheap to build. I made an entirely custom, split hand-wired setup for about $150 (build[1], layout[2]). Most of the cost was ordering one-off laser-cut steel and acrylic plates off the web. If you don't mind waiting a month for parts from Aliexpress and have access to a laser cutter and a soldering iron, you could make a complete split, hand-wired keyboard for about $50. The most difficult thing for most folks is often building the QMK software[3,4] configured for their setup. But hacking a bit of C and flashing an Arduino is probably not that bad for most HN readers! It's awesome to have an entirely custom keyboard. The split design has been great for my posture and shoulders. But the real killer is the kind of customization you get from QMK. We customize everything else about our computers, why not our primary interface to it? I love having the navigation keys and numpad right underneath my fingers using layers, having the modifiers in sane locations, and thumb keys to make your thumbs first-class-typing-citizens (e.g., Space, Shift, Backspace, Enter all within easy reach!). [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/j0hhah/othello_theme_top_plates_denzel_left_keanu_right/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/j0hhah/o... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/KeyboardLayouts/comments/j475mv/40_layout_with_palm_keys/ https://www.reddit.com/r/KeyboardLayouts/comments/j475mv/40_... [3] https://qmk.fm/ https://qmk.fm/ [4] https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware
randmeerkat 6y ago
All I want is a low profile, wireless ergodox, with an aluminum chassis. I would willingly pay $500+ for such a keyboard, but it just doesn’t exist.
- srcreigh 6y ago
  I think bluetooth is just hard to get right. I was recently in the market for a Filco Majestouch Minila keyboard. I was very scared off by a few reviews which said that bluetooth just stopped working after a while. Is $500 worth it if it could break after a year? Maybe if it was under warranty. Anyway I opted for the wired version. Never mind my Logitech MX Master 2 mouse which I could never get to work using Bluetooth, and even disconnected all the time with the USB receiver.
  - 3np 6y ago
    There are bluetooth adapters meant to convert a USB keyboard to a wireless one. Maybe worth a shot?
    - randmeerkat 6y ago
      It’s not just a Bluetooth adapter, the ergodox has a wired connection between the two halves as well. Really I want to everything to be wireless.
      - gravyboat 6y ago
        I'm using an Ergodox EZ which I really enjoy and I'm hoping wireless plus a trackball is in the next iteration. Even just being wireless (or a wireless add-on) would be great.
        randmeerkat 6y ago
        That would be epic. I asked the Ergodox folks about it and they said they’ve experimented with a wireless Ergodox EZ but there’s problems with latency with the two halves being wireless. So I’m skeptical that they’ll produce anything soon.
Kaze404 6y ago
I bought an Ergo Dox a couple years ago. It was by far my most expensive investment so far (due to exchange rates and import taxes) but it was a complete game changer for me. As much as I was sold on it, a part of me still thought I was being duped into buying something that wouldn't really help me in any way but I'm so glad I was wrong. Typing on the Ergo Dox feels like a completely different experience from regular keyboards, because it fundamentally is. It's a keyboard that adapts to my body and arms, as opposed to the other way around which is the (unfortunate) norm.
- splintercell 6y ago
  I purchased Moonlander (also by Ergo Dox), though the software and the build is amazing, but nothing beats my Planck, I just don't like the whole thumb setup it gets my way. I am far more comfortable with a small keyboard such as planck than a wide setup.
  - Kaze404 6y ago
    I've wanted to try a Planck for a while. Hopefully o can get one this year :)
- mech422 6y ago
  My Ergo Dox is 'ok'. I tricked it out with Kailh box navies and it feels nice except the thumb clusters appear to be designed for wilt chamberlain. The moon lander tries to overcome that with the adjustable tilt on the thumb clusters, but I'm custom printing a dactyl instead. Might as well make one fully tailored to my hands...
dmlerner 6y ago
I love my (three) keyboard.io Model 01s. Thumb clusters, palm keys, ortholinear layout, layers, arduino powered, extensive plugin system, and best of all, standard tripod mounts to which I have attached gorilla pods. (Also RGB, if you're into that.) Keyboards with ~15 degrees of adjustability in one plane are better than nothing, but this gives me full adjustability. Took me...a while to decide how to map things for Vim + (on linux) i3wm + (on windows) Dexpot (for virtual desktops) and Aquasnap (as a window manager). Some previous ulnar nerve pain got massively better. Thumbs are just such better digits. Why are we using pinkies for a billion keys?
betwixthewires 6y ago
I'm curious why none of these split designs ever feature a trackball on the right half integrated into the board somehow. There are plenty of FOSS trackball designs, it seems like it would just make sense, especially for ergonomic designs, to have a trackball set up where you don't have to move your hand over to move a cursor. Also I don't understand why they're always missing function keys.
- Merad 6y ago
  The Ultimate Hacking Keyboard supports a trackball or trackpad attached to the right half. The expansion modules just recently became available though so it may be hard to find reviews or people with hands on experience.
  - mech422 6y ago
    They finally released the trackball module? Cool... I'll have to look for some reviews - I'm concerned the actual trackball looks a bit small? Edit: are you sure they started shipping? the shop page still says under development?
    - eyeball 6y ago
      been waiting on those for years, they have not started to ship
      - mech422 6y ago
        Yeah - they're really seeming like vaporware... :-( Given how small the trackball is, I'm not sure if I'd prefer the trackball or trackpoint/electric eraser
        nikau 6y ago
        I used a Texas instruments laptop around 30 years ago which had a tiny clip on track ball like that keyboard
    - 6y ago
frostburg 6y ago
I've built two Nyquist keyboards (https://ereign.is/objects/ https://ereign.is/objects/). The first one was a bit tricky (with the older PCB design one had to hand-solder a bunch of small SMDs and flash the controllers, https://imgur.com/a/NuF476Q https://imgur.com/a/NuF476Q), but the newer boards are very straightforward (and compatible with the SP50 case). They take a bit of getting used to (hours, not days), but they're surprisingly practical.
__mharrison__ 6y ago
I get that these are expensive... But they might be a career saver. Listen to your body. If your fingers and wrists are telling you something, take action. It doesn't have to be an expensive split. (I have an ergodox with the Norman keyboard layout with other firmware goodies as well as running AutoHotKeys to give me emacs bindings all over the place.)
- germ 6y ago
  This. And don't underestimate how much a Keymap can be changed to fit your specific workflow. My Keymap (the default) [0] for GergoPlex is very Vim/i3/Linux orientated, but that's just because it's what I use. If you're not programming your keyboard, _why?!_ I get a ton of emails from people that wreck their hands from bad ergonomics/keyboards and are trying to find a solution. It's bloddy disgusting that we still use something like a 104/QWERTY on such a crucial input device. [0] https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rRS_TOYuIQQ/XhRERox3moI/AAAAAAABEB0/uTThutO8H9o8HK-sdNgzOKC1-gIdyEFoACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Capture.png https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rRS_TOYuIQQ/XhRERox3moI/AAAAAAABE... [1] https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex
- fpgaminer 6y ago
  I read a blog post on Coding Horror back in the mid 2000s about the importance of a good chair. It really opened my eyes and convinced me that, regardless of the cost, an ergonomic working environment is worth every penny. So fast forward about two decades ... and I finally bought my first ergonomic chair... It's stunning how stubborn we can be, even when we know for certain that something is good for us. I don't even know why I put it off for so long. All I can really say is, don't be me. Listen to comments like the one I'm replying to. Get good equipment. Your body will thank you later. P.S. Self Rant: I was gonna write that the reason I put it off so long is that $1000 for a chair is a big number no matter how much I may believe in its benefit ... but then, the chair I ended up buying was like $500, delivered, with all the upgrades, because it was remanufactured and on a black friday sale. Why didn't I buy one sooner!? The hell is wrong with me?
  - __mharrison__ 6y ago
nbzso 6y ago
Speaking of real ergonomic and health in my humble opinion, the designs with Concave keywell (Kinesis/Dactyl) are the way to go. I have jumped on to Kinesis Advantage 2 and all my wrist pain is no more.
- avindroth 6y ago
  I'd go all the way and also add dvorak (programmer's) to the mix. But if somebody goes out of the way to buy an ergonomic keyboard, they are probably fiddling around with keymaps, too.
  - nbzso 6y ago
    Advantage have Brown/Red Cherry and SmartSet Programming Engine: Dual-Layer layouts with secondary actions embedded in the “Keypad” layer US Version: Windows/Mac/PC Switchable (extra keycaps included) International Versions: Extra Windows keycap included One-touch, onboard key remapping so you can customize the layout to suit your typing style and preferences Heavy-duty, on-the-fly macros up to 300 characters long. Choose from 9 playback speeds and add timing delays to ensure proper playback. Native Dvorak layout which can be customized independently of the default QWERTY layout. All settings are saved to the keyboard’s 4MB flash memory.
  - andredz 6y ago
    I sometimes use http://programmer-dvorak.appspot.com/ http://programmer-dvorak.appspot.com/ to practice. The ergonomics of accentuation is inconvenient, but this probably solves the problem: https://github.com/N0rthw1nd/Latin-Dvorak https://github.com/N0rthw1nd/Latin-Dvorak
    - avindroth 6y ago
      I could never get my head around the numbers. I just have a custom layout where for 1,2,3,9,0 they are without shift, and for 4,5,6,7,8 they are with shift. So for me shift 1 is &, but shift 4 is 4. It actually works really well.
- nunez 6y ago
banana_giraffe 6y ago
One thing I'm always curious about, especially with some of the layouts of keyboards with multiple "layers" to accomplish things: Do people using these keyboards as their daily driver have trouble adapting to normal keyboards they need to use from time to time. I suppose I could try one and find out if it's an issue for me, but I'd be worried I get deep into this rabbit hole only to find I'm useless if I have to work on something on some other machine.
- MikeTheGreat 6y ago
  It takes me about a minute to recalibrate for a different keyboard, although I'm occasionally making typos for another 30-ish minutes (nothing tragic - most often happens when I reach for a somewhat rare key, like ~, `, =, +, etc). So for me at least it's pretty quick. Having radically different keyboard layouts is actually helpful because it's really clear (to your muscle memory) that you're doing something very different. I use the ErgoDox that I built from plans I found online, a MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, my laptop keyboard, and rectangular Dell keyboards for random computers at work. If you've got the time/money and it looks interesting I'd encourage you to try it. If it works out you'll be happy, and if doesn't you'll at least know that it doesn't work for you. But hey, it's your choice, for sure :)
  - banana_giraffe 6y ago
    Fair enough. I realized shortly after I posted this that I can use my laptop now without much trouble, despite it's idiotic placement of the right shift key that originally made me debate returning it. I'd probably adapt in a similar fashion. I guess I'm off to keyboard shopping now.
- __mharrison__ 6y ago
  I treat it as a different "instrument". I explicitly chose to use the Norman layout on my ergodox to further distinguish it from my laptop keyboard (which before covid-19 I had to use a lot). See https://www.metasnake.com/blog/what-i-use.html https://www.metasnake.com/blog/what-i-use.html
- 6y ago
Pet_Ant 6y ago
I just ordered the evolved version of the Ergodox EZ, the Moonlander. https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ I expect it plus relearning Dvorak will be a pain but I want to set myself up for life and it seems like a good investment.
- wussboy 6y ago
  I'm sure everyone has an opinion about this, but if encourage you to learn Colemak instead of Dvorak. All of the standard keywords shortcuts (copy, paste, undo) are two hand operations in Dvorak which for me was a huge break up of my workflow.
  - RuleOfBirds 6y ago
    Yes to Colemak! Easier transition from Qwerty, more efficient ergonomics, most common shortcuts are the same or similarly positioned! I switched about 14 years ago and so happy I did.
  - mech422 6y ago
    Workman(1) might also be worth a try. Supposed to reduce pinky usage, overall finger travel, and balance left/right hand usage, compared Dvorak and Colemak edit: carpalx(2) is another. I think that was one of the ones generated by a genetic algorithm for key placement? 1) https://workmanlayout.org/ https://workmanlayout.org/ 2) http://pinouchon.github.io/keyboard/layouts/2016/03/07/layouts-review-dvorak-vs-colemak-vs-carpalx-vs-workman.html http://pinouchon.github.io/keyboard/layouts/2016/03/07/layou...
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    Standard touch-typing advice is to use opposing hands to type combinations like "Shift+A". On an ergonomic, split keyboard this might be less important: the modifier keys are often under the thumbs, and on both sides. Also, it's fairly easy to program the keys however you like, e.g. make a "Fn" key, so Fn+DvorakQ sends Ctrl+X.
  - benhurmarcel 6y ago
    To support this, you might be interested by this little article: https://github.com/bclnr/kb-layout-evaluation https://github.com/bclnr/kb-layout-evaluation
navindra 6y ago
That's a fantastic resource. Here's my own write-up on my experience with the ErgoDox EZ: https://medium.com/@navindra/adventures-with-a-programmable-mechanical-ortholinear-split-ergonomic-keyboard-686d4498091f https://medium.com/@navindra/adventures-with-a-programmable-...
tvanantwerp 6y ago
I'd love to try a split ergo keyboard, but 1) I have no interest in building one and 2) I have no interest in paying $300 for a fully-assembled one. There's got to be untapped market potential for fully assembled ergonomic split keyboards costing less than $300.
- denimnerd42 6y ago
  Amazon sells the Kinesis Advantage via prime so they will accept your return too. Give it at least 2 weeks full time to adapt though. I doubt you would go back if you suffered any pain previously though.
- mdergosits 6y ago
  Kinesis makes them for ~170 if you don’t want tenting or a palm rest
- ahelwer 6y ago
  These exist, look up Goldtouch. The two sides can't fully separate but they move far enough apart that I haven't had an issue.
  - simtel20 6y ago
    I had old gold touches but gave them to my cousin when his arm and wrist pain became far worse than my own. I bought more, but their newer designs (circa 2005 or so, I think) resulted in the ball joint breaking on 3 keyboards before I stopped buying them. I can't be sure if they have fixed the breaking joint problem, but I'm curious about your experience - how long have you had yours and how will has it endured so f
    - ahelwer 6y ago
      Currently I've had mine about six months, but I rarely adjust the ball joint so don't think I put much stress on it.
- ecliptik 6y ago
  Gergoplex is $160 fully assembled, but may not be for everyone. Most of the cost is usually in the switches and keycaps. https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex
vemv 6y ago
Anyone know of a compact keyboard that has 3 modifier keys (ctrl+cmd+option) per hand, at the bottom row? The would suit greatly my editing style - I'm surprised that most hackers don't seem to appreciate this approach. The Matias Tenkeyless models are like that, but they also could be a bit more compact.
- __mharrison__ 6y ago
  Anything that runs qmk will give you what you want.
- acjohnson55 6y ago
  With the Moonlander, I do exactly this on my left thumb cluster. I get really easy combos of Shift, Cmd, and/or Option. Ctrl is harder to combine with my thumb, so I have alternate modifier keys, too -- left Shift left of Z, left Ctrl by holding down Z, and left Alt by holding down X.
3np 6y ago
I am still trying to piece together a Lily58 Pro build kit I bought from a reputable shop. Either half will work fine independently (posing as left) but there just doesn't seem to be any way I can get them to work together. Granted I'm very much an amateur on soldering (getting all the things soldered on properly took me several hours!) and electronics, but I just can't figure this out. All connections seem good, the microcontrollers flash all right, etc etc. Just a rant, I've been very excited for this but it's starting to feel like wasted effort and money... So close but yet so far.
- rgoulter 6y ago
  You'd be able to quickly get help on a relevant discord or one of the subreddits like olkb or ergomechkeyboards. I'd double-check the connectivity for the pins the TRRS cable connects (RX, 3V3, GND, iirc) and that you're following the right instructions to build + flash the firmware for each half.
presentation 6y ago
I love the split layouts, I'm using a Redox Wireless as my daily driver :) Though I wonder, DIY keyboards usually focus on stuff like nice mechanical keyboard action, which to be honest I don't really care about that much. I would kill for a fully wireless Redox-like layout keyboard that has enough keys so you don't need to memorize weird chords to do things, just used normal chiclet keys, is as small and light as possible, and had a wireless receiver that doesn't suck (my Redox Wireless has a range of maybe 1 foot and freaks out all the time). The Kinesis Freestyle 2 is about as close as I could find (without a thumb cluster), but it's still pretty hefty and isn't fully wireless, plus I somewhat prefer the responsiveness and convenience of a Logitech-style unifying keyboard USB dongle over Bluetooth; and I found this other split keyboard [1], but it seems to be no longer produced. I just wish there was a mass-market split ergo keyboard with similar form factor/polish as the Apple Magic Keyboard or one of any of the common Logitech keyboards out there. [1] https://www.amazon.com/peripheral-logix-uekb-rf-ultraergo-wireless/dp/b00hvksosm https://www.amazon.com/peripheral-logix-uekb-rf-ultraergo-wi...
- opan 6y ago
  >fully wireless One idea is to pick a DIY kit as close to what you want as possible and to use the nice!nano[0] for the controller in place of a pro micro/elite-c. It's a drop-in replacement but also has bluetooth and can have a small battery connected. >chiclet While not chiclet, there are the kailh choc[1] switches which are lower profile than the mx switches that are more commonly used. A note that not all boards are compatible with them, so look for choc support as you look at PCBs. [0] https://keyhive.xyz/shop/nicenano https://keyhive.xyz/shop/nicenano [1] https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches/products/kailh-low-profile-switches https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches/products/kailh-lo...
- bbkane 6y ago
  This is exactly how I feel! If you find something, plesae reply here soI can buy one too :)
rattray 6y ago
I use an Apple Magic Keyboard with my left hand and my macbook keyboard with my right. I prop the laptop up a bit so the external keyboard is half underneath the laptop. Simple, and keeps my fingers accustomed to the apple layout for when I need to type away from my desk. Also keeps my thumb on the trackpad. Not as ergonomic as others, but for my shoulders a huge step up from just a normal keyboard
- tome 6y ago
  I'm glad you said this. I had a lot of success with just buying two keyboards and placing them next to each other. The hand separation was pretty much ideal. I don't get RSI anymore though, so I'm back to a single keyboard.
a9h74j 6y ago
Has anyone tried a split keyboard with an old cell phone or other display (perhaps propped up a bit) in between? There ought to be some end-of-life app(s) for all the obsolete-or-insecure Android models out there, rather than have billions of them go to landfills. We need uses-cases and options. It might not be some new kbd/display/other-hid co-design, but but might be.
- jaredandrews 6y ago
  I'm an Android developer and I have stands for 2 phones between my split keyboard (the Kinesis Gaming model, used to have the Advantage which I also love). I keep the phones between my keyboard to focus on during development which doesn't address the more interesting part of your question. I have many old phones around now, some that can't even be updated to support the minimum OS of the app I am building. So I have tried to figure out what to do with the old phones. Most common android reuse case: IP Camera. There are a few different apps which turn your phone into an IP Cam. I have used old phones to watch my 3D printer, explore under the floor in my house (phone attached to stick), to watch/record plants grow, and as a security cameras. The problem is, often with these old phones, streaming live video will drain the battery faster than the charger can charge it. I'm still looking at workarounds for this latter issue. Depending on what you are trying to film it can be surprising how "good" the old Android cameras are. I usually use this app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pas.webcam&hl=en_US&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pas.webcam... The other thing I have done is turn them into dashboards, this is more applicable to tablets though.
  - a9h74j 6y ago
    Thanks. Maybe the app "IP Webcam" needs a time-lapse or N-frames-per-second mode to save on battery draw (use-case permitting).
- eco 6y ago
  My Kyria has two OLED displays. Frankly, they are neat but pointless. Looking down at your keyboard is the last place you'd want to be looking while typing. If you aren't a touch typist you are probably looking at the keys, but the screen. People have done fun stuff with the screens on these split ergos but it's all just novelty stuff (nothing wrong with that, of course).
jvolkman 6y ago
I just use the one Microsoft sells for $60. What am I missing? https://www.bestbuy.com/site/microsoft-ergonomic-keyboard-black/6379631.p https://www.bestbuy.com/site/microsoft-ergonomic-keyboard-bl...
- SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
  Honestly not a whole lot. I have the much more expensive ergodox ez and the main features would be mechanical switches, full customization of the keyboard layout and the fact that you can spread them further out. On the ergodox you can have your arms pointing forwards rather than angled inwards. If none of that sounds interesting than there is no reason to get anything more.
- erjiang 6y ago
  On a split keyboard with two halves, you can independently move the two halves around. This is great if you don't like the Microsoft-designed angle or want to change the positioning. Other than that, probably just customizability in terms of switches, keycaps, etc.
- rgoulter 6y ago
  Customisable firmware. e.g. simulating different "layers" of keys to reduce finger movement, dual-function keys depending on whether the key is tapped or held (which allows for using modifier keys on the home row, reducing finger movement), etc. This can be done with software like kmonad; but I imagine that's less convenient than having it on the keyboard itself. With the keyboard being physically split, your hands don't have to be so close together. Also the row-staggering of more common off-the-shelf keyboards just feels so weird after seeing keys arranged in a grid, or vertically staggered.
- Kototama 6y ago
  Mechanical keys. It feels very great to type with them.
- dgregd 6y ago
  Kudos for Microsoft for that keyboard. Compared to the previous 4000 model they made the 2019 model more ortholinear. Notice the offset between the A key and the Z key. It is not pure ortholinear but it makes possible to type with your pinky Q, A, Z letters without stretching that much. This is the first popular keyboard which goes into the right direction and breaks the 150 years old design! If your are more demanding then it is becoming not ortholinear enough. Later on you will want to have staggered columns like Keyboardio model 01, Kyria, Kinesis Advantage all have. After you'll try the QMK firmware you'll start to hate that Office and Emoji keys, which are under your strongest finger but are basically useless.
dehrmann 6y ago
I keep looking for something like a mechanical version of the MS Sculpt keyboard. I like that the sides are solidly attached, the slight tenting, and that there's a bit of a profile to the keys--they're not just planar. Too many of the ergonomic split keyboards are infinitely adjustable, but the adjustments are finicky.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  There's the Cloud Nine C989 [1] (though I don't know how the mechanism to keep the two halves attached works), or for a DIY option there's the NEK Type A [2]. For the profile of the keys themselves, you can make small changes to an existing keyboard by changing the keycaps -- although it's not always easy to find all the sizes required for an unusual keyboard. See [3]. I have SA keycaps on an otherwise-flat keyboard. [1] https://c9ergo.com/products/cloud-nine-c989m-ergonomic-keyboard https://c9ergo.com/products/cloud-nine-c989m-ergonomic-keybo... [2] https://github.com/ecopoesis/nek-type-a https://github.com/ecopoesis/nek-type-a [3] http://xahlee.info/kbd/keycap_profiles.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/keycap_profiles.html
bonchicbongenre 6y ago
I recently was gifted -- very, very generously! -- a Moonlander Mark I split, ortholinear keyboard [0] (made by the same company that previously made the Ergodox). It's genuinely fantastic, and I can't ever see myself going back to either a non-split or a non-ortholinear board as my desktop's input. It's a huge improvement ergonomically -- (0) no hunched shoulders, with the halves at shoulder width (1) the ortholinear layout results in much more natural-feeling finger motions and (2) the ability to "tent" the individual halves is also wonderful, for not having to twist your wrist out of its natural somewhat-diagonal position. Beyond that, the ability to easily modify up to 32 layers of functionality [1], with macros, really is astonishingly useful once set up to your personal workflow. If I were to lose it, I'd order a replacement immediately. Highly recommend, for anyone who can justify the board's price -- I'm normally fairly frugal, so the fact that I consider a $400 keyboard anything except an egregious waste of money really speaks to how much I like this device. [0]: https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ [1]: https://www.zsa.io/oryx/ https://www.zsa.io/oryx/
- winrid 6y ago
  Has anyone tried this and the Freestyle Pro and have a preference?
- piinecone 6y ago
  I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been using a Kinesis Advantage and a Mistel Barocco (when traveling) for years. I recently switched to the Moonlander and I love it. Coming from the Kinesis Advantage the adaptation period is short, and since the moonlander is so easy to program I didn’t really have to adjust my habits. If anything, I’m trying to learn that I can use its programmability to my advantage to make my life easier. I’m also very happy that it’s hot swappable, so I can start experimenting with different switches.
  - ashkankiani 6y ago
    Why would you switch to the moonlander from the Kinesis? The curved design of the kinesis is way better for reducing strain than the flat style of the moonlander/ergodox. If the only factor is programmability, then I think that factor may be overexaggerated in how important it is. Know that anyone who wants to riposte that last point should realize that I'm not a novice to making my own keyboards or programming them. While layers seem like a good idea, it's very difficult to actually come up with enough usecases to find them more useful than just the ability to remap keys and record macros, both of which the Kinesis Advantage 2 can already do. I also find having two separate pieces a bit annoying since I'll tend to want to fidget with them instead.
wanttocommentt 6y ago
A lot of the shortcuts I'm using in my IDE(intellij) are including one of the F-keys. I see that most of those keyboards are not having the top row with the F-keys, so I'm wondering how others deal with this? This was also the reason I bought the Logitech Ergo K860, which is so far pretty ok.
- mewse 6y ago
  I use a split keyboard which not only doesn’t have a row of F-keys, it doesn’t even have a number row; it’s three by six keys on each half. I use chorded keystrokes for F-keys. I have a layer key (named “Lower”, and located where the ‘Windows’ key is on normal keyboards); hold that down with your left thumb and the middle row of keys on the left split (caps lock -> g, under a qwerty layout) become F1->F6. And the bottom row of keys on the left split (left shift->v) become F7->F12. I actually find it a whole heap easier to hit those key combinations than trying to find various physical F-keys three rows away from the home row; I think I’d actually set up a macro like this even if I was using a full-sized keyboard; I just find it to be easier. (although I don’t actually use F7->F12 for anything, normally; that might be a little awkward in terms of finger positioning and I’d think about maybe moving them over to the right side of the split if I used them with any regularity)
  - wanttocommentt 6y ago
    I see, thanks for the reply. I think I can't really judge if I never tried it, but I think that adding an additional key to achieve the shortcuts might make it a little bit awkward. A lot of shortcuts I'm using already need three fingers(shift + cmd + some F-Key) I agree that the usage of the F-Keys is a little bit complicated, especially if you have small fingers.
    - opan 6y ago
      With QMK firmware you can reduce the number of keys required for actions like you describe. I similarly use some keybinds that are ctrl + super + a letter. I bound a key on my Pinky4 to act as ctrl-super in one, and to also work like a sticky key, so I press it once, release, and then press a letter. A huge comfort upgrade.
vjaswal 6y ago
No ones mentioned the Dygma Raise, yet. I HIGHLY recommend them. It has a great solid metal build that doesn't flex. It's very compact. And it has hot-swappable switches which are very easy to replace. That was critical. I put in Zilents v2 67g switches and it feels great; very tactile and buttery smooth. I tried speed switches and Cherry browns too, but the zilents were the best for coding. It's marketed as a gaming keyboard, but it's fantastic as an ergo. It's the best keyboard I've ever had. Previously I used the Microsoft ergo, forever. Another subtle consideration is the placement of the Alt/Option keys next to the space bar. A deal breaker with a lot of other split keyboards, like the Kinesis, is that they have space bars that are too wide, so the modifier keys are too close to the outside edges. But the Raise has a compact space bar, so your thumb doesn't need to contort as much to use them. The software to reprogram the layers is decent, somewhat obtuse, but easy enough for basic remappings. For example, I reprogrammed some letter keys to be arrow keys when pressed with a modifier. Oh, the only downside so far is that it really could use a row of function keys on the top, to mimic the macbook laptop layout. They haven't released a keyboard tilt/tenting kit yet, so I had to make my own to give the inner edges a height of about 1.5 inches. Also, I place an elevated magic trackpad right in between the two halves. It's a frankenstein keyboard-mouse setup, but now it's very comfortable.
- knacky 6y ago
  I will second the Dygma Raise. It's a great split keyboard with a staggered layout and eight thumb modifiers (rather than a single spacebar). This was great for me since I didn't want to take on the learning curve of a ortholinear layout.
fblp 6y ago
I'm curious if anyone else is wanting a split keyboard tray to go with these split keyboards? I'm currently making one - 2 individual trays that can be moved in and out and tucked under the desk.
wellthisisgreat 6y ago
Obligatory mention of Sinc and Quefrency - amazing boards that are also fun to build (use Zilents of course). I was somewhat concerned about the DIY look but it's actually not that DIY after all and has something unique about it
anotheryou 6y ago
I love split, ortho, QMK, but I just prefer the feel of rubberdome...
- Sholmesy 6y ago
  There are certain switches that would likely accommodate your preference. Maybe a lightweight linear. NK Silk Reds maybe. Worst part of the keyboard community is discovery imo.
  - anotheryou 6y ago
    I forgot to add low-profile to the requirement :)
- ruiseal 6y ago
  Heresy. Is there any particular reason? Even the people who I've talked to that like rubber dome say linear is better.
  - steinso 6y ago
    I'm in a similar boat as I prefer scissor switches, in particular Apples butterfly ones. For me in general it is the travel. All the mechanical switches have significant travel, even the kailh choc ones have a lot more travel compared to butterfly switches.
  - anotheryou 6y ago
    I like them laptop style: low-profile, silent, light, slightly tactile. Haven't tried low profile linear mech ones yet.
kmlopez 6y ago
I’ve a split keyboard user for 2 years now, I’ll never go back to the traditional ones.
jeromenerf 6y ago
I have used an ergodox EZ for a while, loved it, bought a Planck EZ and found out I prefer the smaller keyboard.
- estsauver 6y ago
  I found the Planck too small for me/caused arm strain. If anyone in the Eu wants to trade a Planck for Ergodox/Moonlander, I'd be happy to swap! :)
Symbiote 6y ago
This repository was abandoned for a while, so I remixed/forked it into a gallery view with filters. It can be easier to get an overview, or search for something specific (e.g. only a traditional "Microsoft Ergonomic" layout). https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/ https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/ There's also http://xahlee.info/kbd/diy_keyboards_index.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/diy_keyboards_index.html which has reviews.
- sethammons 6y ago
  Missing the cloud9 split ergo
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    The Cloud Nine C989? It's there, under "Traditional" since the layout is fairly standard (no thumb keys etc).
    - sethammons 6y ago
      ah, I see it. I had checked only "ergonomic" (unchecking all the rest). Neat resource!
blindluke 6y ago
I wonder, is there a place one can buy a prebuilt 40% keyboard, with keycaps, the full shebang? Split or not, I'd love to have a portable mechanical keyboard to carry around, but I don't have the time nor patience to mess with a kit. Aby suggestions?
- dmlerner 6y ago
  keyboard.io atreus? it's a novel layout, not just the standard rectangular grid, but very comfortable. available in a range of switch types.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  In Europe (though they deliver anywhere) there's Falba.Tech. They're on the expensive side due to the wooden cases. There's https://mechboards.co.uk/ https://mechboards.co.uk/ in the UK, but no split options as far as I see. There's https://www.gboards.ca/ https://www.gboards.ca/ in Canada. (I'm sure there's someone in the US too, but I'm in Europe and haven't looked much beyond here.) [1] https://falba.tech/customize-your-keyboard/customize-your-minidox/ https://falba.tech/customize-your-keyboard/customize-your-mi...
  - blindluke 6y ago
    Thank you. Falba is pretty much exactly what I was hoping to find, especially since I'm in Europe too. Appreciate the help.
- gwenzek 6y ago
  littlekeyboards.com in US, splitkb.com in EU
LockAndLol 6y ago
As a software developer, I'm pretty lost when it comes to circuits, soldering, etc. I can mix and match parts for my PC and not fuck up, but building hardware from scratch is something totally new to me. Are there any European stores that sell the kits or parts to build these keyboards? I've had pretty bad experiences buying stuff from outside the EU. If something is faulty, broken, etc., you're pretty much SOL, while in the EU you can return it and get your money back.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  https://keycapsss.com/ https://keycapsss.com/ (Germany) https://falba.tech/ https://falba.tech/ (Poland) https://candykeys.com/ https://candykeys.com/ (Germany) https://mykeyboard.eu/ https://mykeyboard.eu/ (Belgium)
  - LockAndLol 6y ago
    Good list, thank you. Having a look at them.
- adamcstephens 6y ago
  https://splitkb.com/ https://splitkb.com/ Is in NL and the owner is very accessible. I hung out in their discord for a while during my research phase and leaned a lot.
  - LockAndLol 6y ago
    Thank you! Checking it out.
kiesel 6y ago
Having a good keyboard is important (not only for ergonomics, but also for efficiency) in our business. But I find I'm having difficulty when temporarily switching from US to DE keyboard layout, or when using a mac (vs linux) - so what would using a completely custom keyboard do to my general computer user ability? This is why I never considered buying one of these...
- Cu3PO42 6y ago
  I find that changing the layout creates significant mental overhead for me as well, so I just don't do it. I use the NEO layout [1] which contains all the characters and symbols I could possibly need in reasonable locations. I barely need to leave the home row to write any of the symbols needed during programming or writing TeX. As for physically different keyboards, I've found it to be a much lesser issue than I expected. I recently got a Moonlander [2] due to general hand and wrist pain that could only be attributed to strain from typing. I took care to map the layout quite closely and the physical layout was almost immediately usable. I started at around 2/3 my normal typing speed but was back to 100% in a matter of a week. Going back to a normal keyboard takes minimal effort. I can still type on them quickly, I just loathe them more than I did before now that I know how much more comfortable it could be. [1] https://neo-layout.org/ https://neo-layout.org/ [2] https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/
- lycopodiopsida 6y ago
  At least on the mac I do not use the german layout at all. For typing an Umlaut I type instead Opt(Alt) + 'u' to get an ¨-sign, then I type a/o/u to get the letter. The same with ß - just Opt + 's'. It is maybe a bit annyoing if I have to type in german a lot on some days, but it is less annoying then to keep an extra layout. And since I sometimes have to type in french and often in russian... well, you get the idea, it would be a mess of 4 keyboard layouts. With special characters I can push the amount of keyboard layouts just to colemak and russian.
justtocomment 6y ago
Something to be aware of: most (all?) of these keyboards give the thumbs more to do than merely pressing the "space" key. This is awesome, because thumbs are strong and relatively quick. However: with the exception of those sculpted keyboards (Dactyl-ManuForm et.al.), the thumb keys are triggered by lateral thumb movement, which can be troublesome. I had absolutely no problems using traditional keyboards for ~30 years, but decided to proactively switch to a split keyboard (ReDox) nonetheless. Mostly it's great, but I developed pain in my thumbs from the constant uncommon (to me) lateral thumb movement. I replaced the thumb switches with lighter ones and remapped my keyboard layout to use only 4 of the available 12 thumb keys, but it's still not ideal. I'm thinking about building one of those sculpted keyboards now.
- wolrah 6y ago
  This is one of the reasons I chose a Moonlander over an Ergodox for my first split keyboard, the ability to fold the thumb cluster down to an angled position seemed like it'd be more natural. So far in the two months I've been using it I think I was correct about that (that said, when closer to flat the Moonlander's cluster is at a much steeper angle off the rest and is less than ideal) Also likewise on thinking about a sculpted build, the rabbit hole is deep with these things. Redox Manuform is where I'm currently leaning, I like the extra keys and the thumb cluster looks a bit better. Unfortunately that means going full custom, since while a few vendors sell prebuild Dactyl Manuforms no one seems to do the Redox version.
- tnorthcutt 6y ago
  IME the Keyboardio Model 01 (sold out but used ones come up for sale, and they're working on a new model) addresses this issue well. Maybe worth looking into.
sethammons 6y ago
Missing: cloud9. It is very, very similar to the Microsoft Ergo 4000, but is a split ergonomic mechanical keyboard; I really enjoy it. I also have the ergodox ez, but quickly abandoned it due to the steep learning curve.
dhagz 6y ago
I've been in love with minimal keyboards for about a year or two now. I used to use a MiniVan Rev2 as my daily driver. Then I bought a GergoPlex on a whim and couldn't believe how amazing it was. I love the lack of weird stretches in the default key layout, and the chording engine Germ made for it is amazing and really makes it feel like I have a full-size keyboard. And being able to have the two halves exactly shoulder-width apart helps me keep a neutral position for my arms. All it's missing is tenting, but that's easy to do myself. All in all, I highly recommend getting (or building) a split keeb.
andrewla 6y ago
The one feature that would have me consider using one of these keyboards would be the duplication of the center keys. An early training as a classical pianist has given me fairly good hand posture, so I've never had any wrist pain or anything despite doing a great deal of typing. It also means that my hands float, so I can reach keys that require some lateral motion, which means that keys like TYU/GH/VBN are crossover keys for me -- I might hit them with either hand. So the obvious design for me would be to have a split keyboard that has those keys on both sides. Why choose a split? Just duplicate the keys!
- kaz-inc 6y ago
  My ergodox config has that feature. Interestingly, I also played piano as a kid and I've had no problems floating my hands, though I hadn't made that connection before. https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/3qeVW/latest/0 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/3qeVW/la...
alexpotato 6y ago
I recently switched from a standard layout to split by purchasing a Koolertron programmable keyboard. Main reason I bought it vs the Moonlander: - Cheaper - On Amazon - got it in <1 week vs the 5 for the Moonlander. Overall, I would recommend it as an intermediary step if you are looking to test out a decent and easily purchasable/returnable split mechanical keyboard. I have a more detailed write up on my thoughts here: https://twitter.com/alexpotato/status/1350530940561457155 https://twitter.com/alexpotato/status/1350530940561457155
benfrain 6y ago
Has anyone mentioned the Zergotech Freedom? New to the market and built like a tank. Review: https://benfrain.com/review-zergotech-freedom-ergonomic-mechanical-keyboard/ https://benfrain.com/review-zergotech-freedom-ergonomic-mech... The glass sliding armrests are certainly unique.
rpiguyshy 6y ago
why is there no "typing glove?" some kind of device that is attached to your hand that tracks the minute movement of your fingers, and translates them into keystrokes? the amount of physical movement for each keystroke would be dramatically reduced and so it would be faster as well. even without going this far, wouldnt it be much faster to have a keyboard where there is only one button for each finger, and combinations of depressions map to keys? that way you would never have to move your fingers more than is necessary.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  The closest is probably the Lalboard: https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard
  - rpiguyshy 6y ago
    this is almost exactly what i was talking about! but this seems like it uses a ring of buttons around each finger. it uses more than one discreet button per finger rather than one button per finger plus using combinations of key-presses. and i think the design is flawed ergonomically because your fingers press downward instead of inward. an ideal version of this keyboard would be a ring about the size of your palm with keys around its edge, and to use it you mate your palm with the surface of the ring and pull on each key to depress it kind of like the way you pull the trigger of a gun. has nobody really made that yet?
Syzygies 6y ago
After a decade-long respite from three flaky Kinesis Advantage keyboards (they must have modernized by now) and a several year foray into the Dvorak layout, I went way down the mechanical keyboard rabbit hole last year. After some beginner choices (Obinslab Anne 2 Pro), I quickly rejected any keyboard that didn't support QMK firmware. My configuration has two sets of nine "tap/hold" keys (UIO JKL M,. and their mirrors) for modifier keys and custom layers. My hands hardly move, which for my particular physical health seems more important than their position on my desk, and more important than the QWERTY - Dvorak question. My favorite mechanical keyboards had been the GergoPlex, ErgoDox EZ, Planck EZ, and a KBDFans DZ60. Then I purchased a Leopold FC660C and Hasu's replacement QMK controller. I like Topre switches so much more than any mechanical switch I've tried, that I can't bring myself to use any other keyboard. Topre switches are the obsession killer. You can't swap them, you can't post pictures on Reddit of your gaudy new keycaps, all you can do is customize your QMK configuration. It's a bit like the shaving rabbit hole. What sticks, if one returns to expensive Gillette cartridges, is the brush and Mitchell's Wool Fat Shaving Soap. No one returns to spray cans.
- Syzygies 6y ago
  One thought "design pattern" I pay attention to is respecting multiple modes. For example, language learning tends to focus on single-phase progress. In practice, a tourist such as myself, bad at many languages, will study before a trip and hope it all comes together during the trip. One realistically doesn't continue studying during a trip, but one's mind shortens available connections to develop a working facility. This favors committing a radio play to memory, over the staggered recall patterns of single-phase language study. Von Neumann could recall entire books, but in sequence. That's key. For keyboards, the most novel designs are better at intense coding sessions, but worse at hunt-and-peck finding an arrow key, or muting one's computer in the middle of the night before the dog wakes everyone up. For me, the middle "tap/hold" zone of my Leopold FC660C is perfect for long coding and typing sessions, while the periphery does a great job of supporting casual use.
therealdrag0 6y ago
PSA: There's a marketplace on reddit for buying/selling mechanical keyboards: https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/

253 points by punkspider 6y ago

Zack Freedman's youtube channel is gold and he recently released a pretty comprehensive (and hilarious) tutorial on building your own mechanical keyboard as a getting started project into building electronics. Split keyboards are also mentioned. How to Build MECHANICAL KEYBOARDS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcNi9hKxDk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcNi9hKxDk

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

ezluckyfree 6y ago

I built an Iris split ergo keyboard, and it's great. Most of the cost comes from the switches and keycaps (I used Zilents and a PMK set), but honestly spending a lot of money on something I probably spent >10 hours touching each day is totally worth it. It also takes a while to get used to the lack of keys, particularly arrow keys, and various brackets for programming. However, training myself to use layers rather than moving my hand around to push them makes me much more efficient. I plan to move to a design with even fewer keys, and since the switches and keycaps can be moved to another board, it won't be as expensive.

1-more 6y ago
Also on an Iris (this very second) having moved from a Let's Split. I'm a HUGE proponent of hold/tap for modifiers and programming brackets. All the ones I use most are under my thumbs with that change. I actually have symmetric modifiers on the thumbs because I effectively have double the keys. Also all my layer changes are from holding down F, D, or S which turns the right half into (respectively) arrows, numpad, and symbol pad.

dexwiz 6y ago

I looked at building these this summer. Ultimately I decided I wanted a split keyboard, but didn't want to learn a new ortho layout or spend $300. I ended up buying a Kinesis Freestyle 2, which is one of the few "normal" split keyboards. I liked it so much I bought a second one with the Mac Meta keys, so I still ended up spending $300 anyways, but got two keyboards. What I didn't do was spend an extra $50 on the tilt kit; a few chair leg pads as spacers was enough for me. I have wide shoulders, bringing my heads together to type all day makes my chest tight and my back hunch. Getting a split keyboard has been my best ergo improvement since a decent chair.

voicedYoda 6y ago
I have a Kinesis freestyle 2 I picked up for a steal (about $20). I looked at the tenting hardware and other add ons, and determined some old odds and ends give it enough lift. I need to replace some keys, but it's been amazing. Like you, I'm broad chested, and know the spacing is super important.
- bartvk 6y ago
  That's a deal like I've never seen it, congrats. I already considered myself lucky to get it for 60 euros (US$ 72). If anyone considers getting one as well, it's worth to see if Amazon has returns. What I like about the Freestyle2, is that it's quite flat. What I don't like, is that there isn't a menu/option key on the right keyboard.
erjiang 6y ago
I'm currently using a Freestyle 2 but very tempted to get one of the keyboards featured in the linked page. The main gripe I have with the Freestyle 2 is that I'd like to be able to separate the two keyboard halves much farther. I wish the cord between the two halves wasn't so short and hard to replace. The other gripes are minor: don't really love the switches, the volume buttons don't work on Linux, and the tilt kit is a little annoying when I move the keyboard around (which I do a lot).
- acjohnson55 6y ago

autocorr 6y ago

The prices can be steep for pre-built split-keyboards, between $200-300 USD, but if anyone has access to a university laser cutter or makerspace they can actually quite cheap to build. I made an entirely custom, split hand-wired setup for about $150 (build[1], layout[2]). Most of the cost was ordering one-off laser-cut steel and acrylic plates off the web. If you don't mind waiting a month for parts from Aliexpress and have access to a laser cutter and a soldering iron, you could make a complete split, hand-wired keyboard for about $50. The most difficult thing for most folks is often building the QMK software[3,4] configured for their setup. But hacking a bit of C and flashing an Arduino is probably not that bad for most HN readers! It's awesome to have an entirely custom keyboard. The split design has been great for my posture and shoulders. But the real killer is the kind of customization you get from QMK. We customize everything else about our computers, why not our primary interface to it? I love having the navigation keys and numpad right underneath my fingers using layers, having the modifiers in sane locations, and thumb keys to make your thumbs first-class-typing-citizens (e.g., Space, Shift, Backspace, Enter all within easy reach!). [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/j0hhah/othello_theme_top_plates_denzel_left_keanu_right/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/j0hhah/o... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/KeyboardLayouts/comments/j475mv/40_layout_with_palm_keys/ https://www.reddit.com/r/KeyboardLayouts/comments/j475mv/40_... [3] https://qmk.fm/ https://qmk.fm/ [4] https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware

randmeerkat 6y ago

All I want is a low profile, wireless ergodox, with an aluminum chassis. I would willingly pay $500+ for such a keyboard, but it just doesn’t exist.

srcreigh 6y ago
I think bluetooth is just hard to get right. I was recently in the market for a Filco Majestouch Minila keyboard. I was very scared off by a few reviews which said that bluetooth just stopped working after a while. Is $500 worth it if it could break after a year? Maybe if it was under warranty. Anyway I opted for the wired version. Never mind my Logitech MX Master 2 mouse which I could never get to work using Bluetooth, and even disconnected all the time with the USB receiver.
- 3np 6y ago
  There are bluetooth adapters meant to convert a USB keyboard to a wireless one. Maybe worth a shot?
  - randmeerkat 6y ago
    It’s not just a Bluetooth adapter, the ergodox has a wired connection between the two halves as well. Really I want to everything to be wireless.
    - gravyboat 6y ago
      I'm using an Ergodox EZ which I really enjoy and I'm hoping wireless plus a trackball is in the next iteration. Even just being wireless (or a wireless add-on) would be great.
      - randmeerkat 6y ago
        That would be epic. I asked the Ergodox folks about it and they said they’ve experimented with a wireless Ergodox EZ but there’s problems with latency with the two halves being wireless. So I’m skeptical that they’ll produce anything soon.

Kaze404 6y ago

I bought an Ergo Dox a couple years ago. It was by far my most expensive investment so far (due to exchange rates and import taxes) but it was a complete game changer for me. As much as I was sold on it, a part of me still thought I was being duped into buying something that wouldn't really help me in any way but I'm so glad I was wrong. Typing on the Ergo Dox feels like a completely different experience from regular keyboards, because it fundamentally is. It's a keyboard that adapts to my body and arms, as opposed to the other way around which is the (unfortunate) norm.

splintercell 6y ago
I purchased Moonlander (also by Ergo Dox), though the software and the build is amazing, but nothing beats my Planck, I just don't like the whole thumb setup it gets my way. I am far more comfortable with a small keyboard such as planck than a wide setup.
- Kaze404 6y ago
  I've wanted to try a Planck for a while. Hopefully o can get one this year :)
mech422 6y ago
My Ergo Dox is 'ok'. I tricked it out with Kailh box navies and it feels nice except the thumb clusters appear to be designed for wilt chamberlain. The moon lander tries to overcome that with the adjustable tilt on the thumb clusters, but I'm custom printing a dactyl instead. Might as well make one fully tailored to my hands...

dmlerner 6y ago

I love my (three) keyboard.io Model 01s. Thumb clusters, palm keys, ortholinear layout, layers, arduino powered, extensive plugin system, and best of all, standard tripod mounts to which I have attached gorilla pods. (Also RGB, if you're into that.) Keyboards with ~15 degrees of adjustability in one plane are better than nothing, but this gives me full adjustability. Took me...a while to decide how to map things for Vim + (on linux) i3wm + (on windows) Dexpot (for virtual desktops) and Aquasnap (as a window manager). Some previous ulnar nerve pain got massively better. Thumbs are just such better digits. Why are we using pinkies for a billion keys?

betwixthewires 6y ago

I'm curious why none of these split designs ever feature a trackball on the right half integrated into the board somehow. There are plenty of FOSS trackball designs, it seems like it would just make sense, especially for ergonomic designs, to have a trackball set up where you don't have to move your hand over to move a cursor. Also I don't understand why they're always missing function keys.

Merad 6y ago
The Ultimate Hacking Keyboard supports a trackball or trackpad attached to the right half. The expansion modules just recently became available though so it may be hard to find reviews or people with hands on experience.
- mech422 6y ago
  They finally released the trackball module? Cool... I'll have to look for some reviews - I'm concerned the actual trackball looks a bit small? Edit: are you sure they started shipping? the shop page still says under development?
  - eyeball 6y ago
    been waiting on those for years, they have not started to ship
    - mech422 6y ago
      Yeah - they're really seeming like vaporware... :-( Given how small the trackball is, I'm not sure if I'd prefer the trackball or trackpoint/electric eraser
      - nikau 6y ago
        I used a Texas instruments laptop around 30 years ago which had a tiny clip on track ball like that keyboard
  - 6y ago

frostburg 6y ago

I've built two Nyquist keyboards (https://ereign.is/objects/ https://ereign.is/objects/). The first one was a bit tricky (with the older PCB design one had to hand-solder a bunch of small SMDs and flash the controllers, https://imgur.com/a/NuF476Q https://imgur.com/a/NuF476Q), but the newer boards are very straightforward (and compatible with the SP50 case). They take a bit of getting used to (hours, not days), but they're surprisingly practical.

__mharrison__ 6y ago

I get that these are expensive... But they might be a career saver. Listen to your body. If your fingers and wrists are telling you something, take action. It doesn't have to be an expensive split. (I have an ergodox with the Norman keyboard layout with other firmware goodies as well as running AutoHotKeys to give me emacs bindings all over the place.)

germ 6y ago
This. And don't underestimate how much a Keymap can be changed to fit your specific workflow. My Keymap (the default) [0] for GergoPlex is very Vim/i3/Linux orientated, but that's just because it's what I use. If you're not programming your keyboard, _why?!_ I get a ton of emails from people that wreck their hands from bad ergonomics/keyboards and are trying to find a solution. It's bloddy disgusting that we still use something like a 104/QWERTY on such a crucial input device. [0] https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rRS_TOYuIQQ/XhRERox3moI/AAAAAAABEB0/uTThutO8H9o8HK-sdNgzOKC1-gIdyEFoACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Capture.png https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rRS_TOYuIQQ/XhRERox3moI/AAAAAAABE... [1] https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex
fpgaminer 6y ago
I read a blog post on Coding Horror back in the mid 2000s about the importance of a good chair. It really opened my eyes and convinced me that, regardless of the cost, an ergonomic working environment is worth every penny. So fast forward about two decades ... and I finally bought my first ergonomic chair... It's stunning how stubborn we can be, even when we know for certain that something is good for us. I don't even know why I put it off for so long. All I can really say is, don't be me. Listen to comments like the one I'm replying to. Get good equipment. Your body will thank you later. P.S. Self Rant: I was gonna write that the reason I put it off so long is that $1000 for a chair is a big number no matter how much I may believe in its benefit ... but then, the chair I ended up buying was like $500, delivered, with all the upgrades, because it was remanufactured and on a black friday sale. Why didn't I buy one sooner!? The hell is wrong with me?
- __mharrison__ 6y ago

nbzso 6y ago

Speaking of real ergonomic and health in my humble opinion, the designs with Concave keywell (Kinesis/Dactyl) are the way to go. I have jumped on to Kinesis Advantage 2 and all my wrist pain is no more.

avindroth 6y ago
I'd go all the way and also add dvorak (programmer's) to the mix. But if somebody goes out of the way to buy an ergonomic keyboard, they are probably fiddling around with keymaps, too.
- nbzso 6y ago
  Advantage have Brown/Red Cherry and SmartSet Programming Engine: Dual-Layer layouts with secondary actions embedded in the “Keypad” layer US Version: Windows/Mac/PC Switchable (extra keycaps included) International Versions: Extra Windows keycap included One-touch, onboard key remapping so you can customize the layout to suit your typing style and preferences Heavy-duty, on-the-fly macros up to 300 characters long. Choose from 9 playback speeds and add timing delays to ensure proper playback. Native Dvorak layout which can be customized independently of the default QWERTY layout. All settings are saved to the keyboard’s 4MB flash memory.
- andredz 6y ago
  I sometimes use http://programmer-dvorak.appspot.com/ http://programmer-dvorak.appspot.com/ to practice. The ergonomics of accentuation is inconvenient, but this probably solves the problem: https://github.com/N0rthw1nd/Latin-Dvorak https://github.com/N0rthw1nd/Latin-Dvorak
  - avindroth 6y ago
    I could never get my head around the numbers. I just have a custom layout where for 1,2,3,9,0 they are without shift, and for 4,5,6,7,8 they are with shift. So for me shift 1 is &, but shift 4 is 4. It actually works really well.
nunez 6y ago

banana_giraffe 6y ago

One thing I'm always curious about, especially with some of the layouts of keyboards with multiple "layers" to accomplish things: Do people using these keyboards as their daily driver have trouble adapting to normal keyboards they need to use from time to time. I suppose I could try one and find out if it's an issue for me, but I'd be worried I get deep into this rabbit hole only to find I'm useless if I have to work on something on some other machine.

MikeTheGreat 6y ago
It takes me about a minute to recalibrate for a different keyboard, although I'm occasionally making typos for another 30-ish minutes (nothing tragic - most often happens when I reach for a somewhat rare key, like ~, `, =, +, etc). So for me at least it's pretty quick. Having radically different keyboard layouts is actually helpful because it's really clear (to your muscle memory) that you're doing something very different. I use the ErgoDox that I built from plans I found online, a MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, my laptop keyboard, and rectangular Dell keyboards for random computers at work. If you've got the time/money and it looks interesting I'd encourage you to try it. If it works out you'll be happy, and if doesn't you'll at least know that it doesn't work for you. But hey, it's your choice, for sure :)
- banana_giraffe 6y ago
  Fair enough. I realized shortly after I posted this that I can use my laptop now without much trouble, despite it's idiotic placement of the right shift key that originally made me debate returning it. I'd probably adapt in a similar fashion. I guess I'm off to keyboard shopping now.
__mharrison__ 6y ago
I treat it as a different "instrument". I explicitly chose to use the Norman layout on my ergodox to further distinguish it from my laptop keyboard (which before covid-19 I had to use a lot). See https://www.metasnake.com/blog/what-i-use.html https://www.metasnake.com/blog/what-i-use.html
6y ago

Pet_Ant 6y ago

I just ordered the evolved version of the Ergodox EZ, the Moonlander. https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ I expect it plus relearning Dvorak will be a pain but I want to set myself up for life and it seems like a good investment.

wussboy 6y ago
I'm sure everyone has an opinion about this, but if encourage you to learn Colemak instead of Dvorak. All of the standard keywords shortcuts (copy, paste, undo) are two hand operations in Dvorak which for me was a huge break up of my workflow.
- RuleOfBirds 6y ago
  Yes to Colemak! Easier transition from Qwerty, more efficient ergonomics, most common shortcuts are the same or similarly positioned! I switched about 14 years ago and so happy I did.
- mech422 6y ago
  Workman(1) might also be worth a try. Supposed to reduce pinky usage, overall finger travel, and balance left/right hand usage, compared Dvorak and Colemak edit: carpalx(2) is another. I think that was one of the ones generated by a genetic algorithm for key placement? 1) https://workmanlayout.org/ https://workmanlayout.org/ 2) http://pinouchon.github.io/keyboard/layouts/2016/03/07/layouts-review-dvorak-vs-colemak-vs-carpalx-vs-workman.html http://pinouchon.github.io/keyboard/layouts/2016/03/07/layou...
- Symbiote 6y ago
  Standard touch-typing advice is to use opposing hands to type combinations like "Shift+A". On an ergonomic, split keyboard this might be less important: the modifier keys are often under the thumbs, and on both sides. Also, it's fairly easy to program the keys however you like, e.g. make a "Fn" key, so Fn+DvorakQ sends Ctrl+X.
- benhurmarcel 6y ago
  To support this, you might be interested by this little article: https://github.com/bclnr/kb-layout-evaluation https://github.com/bclnr/kb-layout-evaluation

navindra 6y ago

That's a fantastic resource. Here's my own write-up on my experience with the ErgoDox EZ: https://medium.com/@navindra/adventures-with-a-programmable-mechanical-ortholinear-split-ergonomic-keyboard-686d4498091f https://medium.com/@navindra/adventures-with-a-programmable-...

tvanantwerp 6y ago

I'd love to try a split ergo keyboard, but 1) I have no interest in building one and 2) I have no interest in paying $300 for a fully-assembled one. There's got to be untapped market potential for fully assembled ergonomic split keyboards costing less than $300.

denimnerd42 6y ago
Amazon sells the Kinesis Advantage via prime so they will accept your return too. Give it at least 2 weeks full time to adapt though. I doubt you would go back if you suffered any pain previously though.
mdergosits 6y ago
Kinesis makes them for ~170 if you don’t want tenting or a palm rest
ahelwer 6y ago
These exist, look up Goldtouch. The two sides can't fully separate but they move far enough apart that I haven't had an issue.
- simtel20 6y ago
  I had old gold touches but gave them to my cousin when his arm and wrist pain became far worse than my own. I bought more, but their newer designs (circa 2005 or so, I think) resulted in the ball joint breaking on 3 keyboards before I stopped buying them. I can't be sure if they have fixed the breaking joint problem, but I'm curious about your experience - how long have you had yours and how will has it endured so f
  - ahelwer 6y ago
    Currently I've had mine about six months, but I rarely adjust the ball joint so don't think I put much stress on it.
ecliptik 6y ago
Gergoplex is $160 fully assembled, but may not be for everyone. Most of the cost is usually in the switches and keycaps. https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex https://www.gboards.ca/product/gergoplex

vemv 6y ago

Anyone know of a compact keyboard that has 3 modifier keys (ctrl+cmd+option) per hand, at the bottom row? The would suit greatly my editing style - I'm surprised that most hackers don't seem to appreciate this approach. The Matias Tenkeyless models are like that, but they also could be a bit more compact.

__mharrison__ 6y ago
Anything that runs qmk will give you what you want.
acjohnson55 6y ago
With the Moonlander, I do exactly this on my left thumb cluster. I get really easy combos of Shift, Cmd, and/or Option. Ctrl is harder to combine with my thumb, so I have alternate modifier keys, too -- left Shift left of Z, left Ctrl by holding down Z, and left Alt by holding down X.

3np 6y ago

I am still trying to piece together a Lily58 Pro build kit I bought from a reputable shop. Either half will work fine independently (posing as left) but there just doesn't seem to be any way I can get them to work together. Granted I'm very much an amateur on soldering (getting all the things soldered on properly took me several hours!) and electronics, but I just can't figure this out. All connections seem good, the microcontrollers flash all right, etc etc. Just a rant, I've been very excited for this but it's starting to feel like wasted effort and money... So close but yet so far.

rgoulter 6y ago
You'd be able to quickly get help on a relevant discord or one of the subreddits like olkb or ergomechkeyboards. I'd double-check the connectivity for the pins the TRRS cable connects (RX, 3V3, GND, iirc) and that you're following the right instructions to build + flash the firmware for each half.

presentation 6y ago

I love the split layouts, I'm using a Redox Wireless as my daily driver :) Though I wonder, DIY keyboards usually focus on stuff like nice mechanical keyboard action, which to be honest I don't really care about that much. I would kill for a fully wireless Redox-like layout keyboard that has enough keys so you don't need to memorize weird chords to do things, just used normal chiclet keys, is as small and light as possible, and had a wireless receiver that doesn't suck (my Redox Wireless has a range of maybe 1 foot and freaks out all the time). The Kinesis Freestyle 2 is about as close as I could find (without a thumb cluster), but it's still pretty hefty and isn't fully wireless, plus I somewhat prefer the responsiveness and convenience of a Logitech-style unifying keyboard USB dongle over Bluetooth; and I found this other split keyboard [1], but it seems to be no longer produced. I just wish there was a mass-market split ergo keyboard with similar form factor/polish as the Apple Magic Keyboard or one of any of the common Logitech keyboards out there. [1] https://www.amazon.com/peripheral-logix-uekb-rf-ultraergo-wireless/dp/b00hvksosm https://www.amazon.com/peripheral-logix-uekb-rf-ultraergo-wi...

opan 6y ago
>fully wireless One idea is to pick a DIY kit as close to what you want as possible and to use the nice!nano[0] for the controller in place of a pro micro/elite-c. It's a drop-in replacement but also has bluetooth and can have a small battery connected. >chiclet While not chiclet, there are the kailh choc[1] switches which are lower profile than the mx switches that are more commonly used. A note that not all boards are compatible with them, so look for choc support as you look at PCBs. [0] https://keyhive.xyz/shop/nicenano https://keyhive.xyz/shop/nicenano [1] https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches/products/kailh-low-profile-switches https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches/products/kailh-lo...
bbkane 6y ago
This is exactly how I feel! If you find something, plesae reply here soI can buy one too :)

rattray 6y ago

I use an Apple Magic Keyboard with my left hand and my macbook keyboard with my right. I prop the laptop up a bit so the external keyboard is half underneath the laptop. Simple, and keeps my fingers accustomed to the apple layout for when I need to type away from my desk. Also keeps my thumb on the trackpad. Not as ergonomic as others, but for my shoulders a huge step up from just a normal keyboard

tome 6y ago
I'm glad you said this. I had a lot of success with just buying two keyboards and placing them next to each other. The hand separation was pretty much ideal. I don't get RSI anymore though, so I'm back to a single keyboard.

a9h74j 6y ago

Has anyone tried a split keyboard with an old cell phone or other display (perhaps propped up a bit) in between? There ought to be some end-of-life app(s) for all the obsolete-or-insecure Android models out there, rather than have billions of them go to landfills. We need uses-cases and options. It might not be some new kbd/display/other-hid co-design, but but might be.

jaredandrews 6y ago
I'm an Android developer and I have stands for 2 phones between my split keyboard (the Kinesis Gaming model, used to have the Advantage which I also love). I keep the phones between my keyboard to focus on during development which doesn't address the more interesting part of your question. I have many old phones around now, some that can't even be updated to support the minimum OS of the app I am building. So I have tried to figure out what to do with the old phones. Most common android reuse case: IP Camera. There are a few different apps which turn your phone into an IP Cam. I have used old phones to watch my 3D printer, explore under the floor in my house (phone attached to stick), to watch/record plants grow, and as a security cameras. The problem is, often with these old phones, streaming live video will drain the battery faster than the charger can charge it. I'm still looking at workarounds for this latter issue. Depending on what you are trying to film it can be surprising how "good" the old Android cameras are. I usually use this app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pas.webcam&hl=en_US&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pas.webcam... The other thing I have done is turn them into dashboards, this is more applicable to tablets though.
- a9h74j 6y ago
  Thanks. Maybe the app "IP Webcam" needs a time-lapse or N-frames-per-second mode to save on battery draw (use-case permitting).
eco 6y ago
My Kyria has two OLED displays. Frankly, they are neat but pointless. Looking down at your keyboard is the last place you'd want to be looking while typing. If you aren't a touch typist you are probably looking at the keys, but the screen. People have done fun stuff with the screens on these split ergos but it's all just novelty stuff (nothing wrong with that, of course).

jvolkman 6y ago

I just use the one Microsoft sells for $60. What am I missing? https://www.bestbuy.com/site/microsoft-ergonomic-keyboard-black/6379631.p https://www.bestbuy.com/site/microsoft-ergonomic-keyboard-bl...

SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
Honestly not a whole lot. I have the much more expensive ergodox ez and the main features would be mechanical switches, full customization of the keyboard layout and the fact that you can spread them further out. On the ergodox you can have your arms pointing forwards rather than angled inwards. If none of that sounds interesting than there is no reason to get anything more.
erjiang 6y ago
On a split keyboard with two halves, you can independently move the two halves around. This is great if you don't like the Microsoft-designed angle or want to change the positioning. Other than that, probably just customizability in terms of switches, keycaps, etc.
rgoulter 6y ago
Customisable firmware. e.g. simulating different "layers" of keys to reduce finger movement, dual-function keys depending on whether the key is tapped or held (which allows for using modifier keys on the home row, reducing finger movement), etc. This can be done with software like kmonad; but I imagine that's less convenient than having it on the keyboard itself. With the keyboard being physically split, your hands don't have to be so close together. Also the row-staggering of more common off-the-shelf keyboards just feels so weird after seeing keys arranged in a grid, or vertically staggered.
Kototama 6y ago
Mechanical keys. It feels very great to type with them.
dgregd 6y ago
Kudos for Microsoft for that keyboard. Compared to the previous 4000 model they made the 2019 model more ortholinear. Notice the offset between the A key and the Z key. It is not pure ortholinear but it makes possible to type with your pinky Q, A, Z letters without stretching that much. This is the first popular keyboard which goes into the right direction and breaks the 150 years old design! If your are more demanding then it is becoming not ortholinear enough. Later on you will want to have staggered columns like Keyboardio model 01, Kyria, Kinesis Advantage all have. After you'll try the QMK firmware you'll start to hate that Office and Emoji keys, which are under your strongest finger but are basically useless.

dehrmann 6y ago

I keep looking for something like a mechanical version of the MS Sculpt keyboard. I like that the sides are solidly attached, the slight tenting, and that there's a bit of a profile to the keys--they're not just planar. Too many of the ergonomic split keyboards are infinitely adjustable, but the adjustments are finicky.

Symbiote 6y ago
There's the Cloud Nine C989 [1] (though I don't know how the mechanism to keep the two halves attached works), or for a DIY option there's the NEK Type A [2]. For the profile of the keys themselves, you can make small changes to an existing keyboard by changing the keycaps -- although it's not always easy to find all the sizes required for an unusual keyboard. See [3]. I have SA keycaps on an otherwise-flat keyboard. [1] https://c9ergo.com/products/cloud-nine-c989m-ergonomic-keyboard https://c9ergo.com/products/cloud-nine-c989m-ergonomic-keybo... [2] https://github.com/ecopoesis/nek-type-a https://github.com/ecopoesis/nek-type-a [3] http://xahlee.info/kbd/keycap_profiles.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/keycap_profiles.html

bonchicbongenre 6y ago

I recently was gifted -- very, very generously! -- a Moonlander Mark I split, ortholinear keyboard [0] (made by the same company that previously made the Ergodox). It's genuinely fantastic, and I can't ever see myself going back to either a non-split or a non-ortholinear board as my desktop's input. It's a huge improvement ergonomically -- (0) no hunched shoulders, with the halves at shoulder width (1) the ortholinear layout results in much more natural-feeling finger motions and (2) the ability to "tent" the individual halves is also wonderful, for not having to twist your wrist out of its natural somewhat-diagonal position. Beyond that, the ability to easily modify up to 32 layers of functionality [1], with macros, really is astonishingly useful once set up to your personal workflow. If I were to lose it, I'd order a replacement immediately. Highly recommend, for anyone who can justify the board's price -- I'm normally fairly frugal, so the fact that I consider a $400 keyboard anything except an egregious waste of money really speaks to how much I like this device. [0]: https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ [1]: https://www.zsa.io/oryx/ https://www.zsa.io/oryx/

winrid 6y ago
Has anyone tried this and the Freestyle Pro and have a preference?
piinecone 6y ago
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been using a Kinesis Advantage and a Mistel Barocco (when traveling) for years. I recently switched to the Moonlander and I love it. Coming from the Kinesis Advantage the adaptation period is short, and since the moonlander is so easy to program I didn’t really have to adjust my habits. If anything, I’m trying to learn that I can use its programmability to my advantage to make my life easier. I’m also very happy that it’s hot swappable, so I can start experimenting with different switches.
- ashkankiani 6y ago
  Why would you switch to the moonlander from the Kinesis? The curved design of the kinesis is way better for reducing strain than the flat style of the moonlander/ergodox. If the only factor is programmability, then I think that factor may be overexaggerated in how important it is. Know that anyone who wants to riposte that last point should realize that I'm not a novice to making my own keyboards or programming them. While layers seem like a good idea, it's very difficult to actually come up with enough usecases to find them more useful than just the ability to remap keys and record macros, both of which the Kinesis Advantage 2 can already do. I also find having two separate pieces a bit annoying since I'll tend to want to fidget with them instead.

wanttocommentt 6y ago

A lot of the shortcuts I'm using in my IDE(intellij) are including one of the F-keys. I see that most of those keyboards are not having the top row with the F-keys, so I'm wondering how others deal with this? This was also the reason I bought the Logitech Ergo K860, which is so far pretty ok.

mewse 6y ago
I use a split keyboard which not only doesn’t have a row of F-keys, it doesn’t even have a number row; it’s three by six keys on each half. I use chorded keystrokes for F-keys. I have a layer key (named “Lower”, and located where the ‘Windows’ key is on normal keyboards); hold that down with your left thumb and the middle row of keys on the left split (caps lock -> g, under a qwerty layout) become F1->F6. And the bottom row of keys on the left split (left shift->v) become F7->F12. I actually find it a whole heap easier to hit those key combinations than trying to find various physical F-keys three rows away from the home row; I think I’d actually set up a macro like this even if I was using a full-sized keyboard; I just find it to be easier. (although I don’t actually use F7->F12 for anything, normally; that might be a little awkward in terms of finger positioning and I’d think about maybe moving them over to the right side of the split if I used them with any regularity)
- wanttocommentt 6y ago
  I see, thanks for the reply. I think I can't really judge if I never tried it, but I think that adding an additional key to achieve the shortcuts might make it a little bit awkward. A lot of shortcuts I'm using already need three fingers(shift + cmd + some F-Key) I agree that the usage of the F-Keys is a little bit complicated, especially if you have small fingers.
  - opan 6y ago
    With QMK firmware you can reduce the number of keys required for actions like you describe. I similarly use some keybinds that are ctrl + super + a letter. I bound a key on my Pinky4 to act as ctrl-super in one, and to also work like a sticky key, so I press it once, release, and then press a letter. A huge comfort upgrade.

vjaswal 6y ago

No ones mentioned the Dygma Raise, yet. I HIGHLY recommend them. It has a great solid metal build that doesn't flex. It's very compact. And it has hot-swappable switches which are very easy to replace. That was critical. I put in Zilents v2 67g switches and it feels great; very tactile and buttery smooth. I tried speed switches and Cherry browns too, but the zilents were the best for coding. It's marketed as a gaming keyboard, but it's fantastic as an ergo. It's the best keyboard I've ever had. Previously I used the Microsoft ergo, forever. Another subtle consideration is the placement of the Alt/Option keys next to the space bar. A deal breaker with a lot of other split keyboards, like the Kinesis, is that they have space bars that are too wide, so the modifier keys are too close to the outside edges. But the Raise has a compact space bar, so your thumb doesn't need to contort as much to use them. The software to reprogram the layers is decent, somewhat obtuse, but easy enough for basic remappings. For example, I reprogrammed some letter keys to be arrow keys when pressed with a modifier. Oh, the only downside so far is that it really could use a row of function keys on the top, to mimic the macbook laptop layout. They haven't released a keyboard tilt/tenting kit yet, so I had to make my own to give the inner edges a height of about 1.5 inches. Also, I place an elevated magic trackpad right in between the two halves. It's a frankenstein keyboard-mouse setup, but now it's very comfortable.

knacky 6y ago
I will second the Dygma Raise. It's a great split keyboard with a staggered layout and eight thumb modifiers (rather than a single spacebar). This was great for me since I didn't want to take on the learning curve of a ortholinear layout.

fblp 6y ago

I'm curious if anyone else is wanting a split keyboard tray to go with these split keyboards? I'm currently making one - 2 individual trays that can be moved in and out and tucked under the desk.

wellthisisgreat 6y ago

Obligatory mention of Sinc and Quefrency - amazing boards that are also fun to build (use Zilents of course). I was somewhat concerned about the DIY look but it's actually not that DIY after all and has something unique about it

anotheryou 6y ago

I love split, ortho, QMK, but I just prefer the feel of rubberdome...

Sholmesy 6y ago
There are certain switches that would likely accommodate your preference. Maybe a lightweight linear. NK Silk Reds maybe. Worst part of the keyboard community is discovery imo.
- anotheryou 6y ago
  I forgot to add low-profile to the requirement :)
ruiseal 6y ago
Heresy. Is there any particular reason? Even the people who I've talked to that like rubber dome say linear is better.
- steinso 6y ago
  I'm in a similar boat as I prefer scissor switches, in particular Apples butterfly ones. For me in general it is the travel. All the mechanical switches have significant travel, even the kailh choc ones have a lot more travel compared to butterfly switches.
- anotheryou 6y ago
  I like them laptop style: low-profile, silent, light, slightly tactile. Haven't tried low profile linear mech ones yet.

kmlopez 6y ago

I’ve a split keyboard user for 2 years now, I’ll never go back to the traditional ones.

jeromenerf 6y ago

I have used an ergodox EZ for a while, loved it, bought a Planck EZ and found out I prefer the smaller keyboard.

estsauver 6y ago
I found the Planck too small for me/caused arm strain. If anyone in the Eu wants to trade a Planck for Ergodox/Moonlander, I'd be happy to swap! :)

Symbiote 6y ago

This repository was abandoned for a while, so I remixed/forked it into a gallery view with filters. It can be easier to get an overview, or search for something specific (e.g. only a traditional "Microsoft Ergonomic" layout). https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/ https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/ There's also http://xahlee.info/kbd/diy_keyboards_index.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/diy_keyboards_index.html which has reviews.

sethammons 6y ago
Missing the cloud9 split ergo
- Symbiote 6y ago
  The Cloud Nine C989? It's there, under "Traditional" since the layout is fairly standard (no thumb keys etc).
  - sethammons 6y ago
    ah, I see it. I had checked only "ergonomic" (unchecking all the rest). Neat resource!

blindluke 6y ago

I wonder, is there a place one can buy a prebuilt 40% keyboard, with keycaps, the full shebang? Split or not, I'd love to have a portable mechanical keyboard to carry around, but I don't have the time nor patience to mess with a kit. Aby suggestions?

dmlerner 6y ago
keyboard.io atreus? it's a novel layout, not just the standard rectangular grid, but very comfortable. available in a range of switch types.
Symbiote 6y ago
In Europe (though they deliver anywhere) there's Falba.Tech. They're on the expensive side due to the wooden cases. There's https://mechboards.co.uk/ https://mechboards.co.uk/ in the UK, but no split options as far as I see. There's https://www.gboards.ca/ https://www.gboards.ca/ in Canada. (I'm sure there's someone in the US too, but I'm in Europe and haven't looked much beyond here.) [1] https://falba.tech/customize-your-keyboard/customize-your-minidox/ https://falba.tech/customize-your-keyboard/customize-your-mi...
- blindluke 6y ago
  Thank you. Falba is pretty much exactly what I was hoping to find, especially since I'm in Europe too. Appreciate the help.
gwenzek 6y ago
littlekeyboards.com in US, splitkb.com in EU

LockAndLol 6y ago

As a software developer, I'm pretty lost when it comes to circuits, soldering, etc. I can mix and match parts for my PC and not fuck up, but building hardware from scratch is something totally new to me. Are there any European stores that sell the kits or parts to build these keyboards? I've had pretty bad experiences buying stuff from outside the EU. If something is faulty, broken, etc., you're pretty much SOL, while in the EU you can return it and get your money back.

Symbiote 6y ago
https://keycapsss.com/ https://keycapsss.com/ (Germany) https://falba.tech/ https://falba.tech/ (Poland) https://candykeys.com/ https://candykeys.com/ (Germany) https://mykeyboard.eu/ https://mykeyboard.eu/ (Belgium)
- LockAndLol 6y ago
  Good list, thank you. Having a look at them.
adamcstephens 6y ago
https://splitkb.com/ https://splitkb.com/ Is in NL and the owner is very accessible. I hung out in their discord for a while during my research phase and leaned a lot.
- LockAndLol 6y ago
  Thank you! Checking it out.

kiesel 6y ago

Having a good keyboard is important (not only for ergonomics, but also for efficiency) in our business. But I find I'm having difficulty when temporarily switching from US to DE keyboard layout, or when using a mac (vs linux) - so what would using a completely custom keyboard do to my general computer user ability? This is why I never considered buying one of these...

Cu3PO42 6y ago
I find that changing the layout creates significant mental overhead for me as well, so I just don't do it. I use the NEO layout [1] which contains all the characters and symbols I could possibly need in reasonable locations. I barely need to leave the home row to write any of the symbols needed during programming or writing TeX. As for physically different keyboards, I've found it to be a much lesser issue than I expected. I recently got a Moonlander [2] due to general hand and wrist pain that could only be attributed to strain from typing. I took care to map the layout quite closely and the physical layout was almost immediately usable. I started at around 2/3 my normal typing speed but was back to 100% in a matter of a week. Going back to a normal keyboard takes minimal effort. I can still type on them quickly, I just loathe them more than I did before now that I know how much more comfortable it could be. [1] https://neo-layout.org/ https://neo-layout.org/ [2] https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/
lycopodiopsida 6y ago
At least on the mac I do not use the german layout at all. For typing an Umlaut I type instead Opt(Alt) + 'u' to get an ¨-sign, then I type a/o/u to get the letter. The same with ß - just Opt + 's'. It is maybe a bit annyoing if I have to type in german a lot on some days, but it is less annoying then to keep an extra layout. And since I sometimes have to type in french and often in russian... well, you get the idea, it would be a mess of 4 keyboard layouts. With special characters I can push the amount of keyboard layouts just to colemak and russian.

justtocomment 6y ago

Something to be aware of: most (all?) of these keyboards give the thumbs more to do than merely pressing the "space" key. This is awesome, because thumbs are strong and relatively quick. However: with the exception of those sculpted keyboards (Dactyl-ManuForm et.al.), the thumb keys are triggered by lateral thumb movement, which can be troublesome. I had absolutely no problems using traditional keyboards for ~30 years, but decided to proactively switch to a split keyboard (ReDox) nonetheless. Mostly it's great, but I developed pain in my thumbs from the constant uncommon (to me) lateral thumb movement. I replaced the thumb switches with lighter ones and remapped my keyboard layout to use only 4 of the available 12 thumb keys, but it's still not ideal. I'm thinking about building one of those sculpted keyboards now.

wolrah 6y ago
This is one of the reasons I chose a Moonlander over an Ergodox for my first split keyboard, the ability to fold the thumb cluster down to an angled position seemed like it'd be more natural. So far in the two months I've been using it I think I was correct about that (that said, when closer to flat the Moonlander's cluster is at a much steeper angle off the rest and is less than ideal) Also likewise on thinking about a sculpted build, the rabbit hole is deep with these things. Redox Manuform is where I'm currently leaning, I like the extra keys and the thumb cluster looks a bit better. Unfortunately that means going full custom, since while a few vendors sell prebuild Dactyl Manuforms no one seems to do the Redox version.
tnorthcutt 6y ago
IME the Keyboardio Model 01 (sold out but used ones come up for sale, and they're working on a new model) addresses this issue well. Maybe worth looking into.

sethammons 6y ago

Missing: cloud9. It is very, very similar to the Microsoft Ergo 4000, but is a split ergonomic mechanical keyboard; I really enjoy it. I also have the ergodox ez, but quickly abandoned it due to the steep learning curve.

dhagz 6y ago

I've been in love with minimal keyboards for about a year or two now. I used to use a MiniVan Rev2 as my daily driver. Then I bought a GergoPlex on a whim and couldn't believe how amazing it was. I love the lack of weird stretches in the default key layout, and the chording engine Germ made for it is amazing and really makes it feel like I have a full-size keyboard. And being able to have the two halves exactly shoulder-width apart helps me keep a neutral position for my arms. All it's missing is tenting, but that's easy to do myself. All in all, I highly recommend getting (or building) a split keeb.

andrewla 6y ago

The one feature that would have me consider using one of these keyboards would be the duplication of the center keys. An early training as a classical pianist has given me fairly good hand posture, so I've never had any wrist pain or anything despite doing a great deal of typing. It also means that my hands float, so I can reach keys that require some lateral motion, which means that keys like TYU/GH/VBN are crossover keys for me -- I might hit them with either hand. So the obvious design for me would be to have a split keyboard that has those keys on both sides. Why choose a split? Just duplicate the keys!

kaz-inc 6y ago
My ergodox config has that feature. Interestingly, I also played piano as a kid and I've had no problems floating my hands, though I hadn't made that connection before. https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/3qeVW/latest/0 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/3qeVW/la...

alexpotato 6y ago

I recently switched from a standard layout to split by purchasing a Koolertron programmable keyboard. Main reason I bought it vs the Moonlander: - Cheaper - On Amazon - got it in <1 week vs the 5 for the Moonlander. Overall, I would recommend it as an intermediary step if you are looking to test out a decent and easily purchasable/returnable split mechanical keyboard. I have a more detailed write up on my thoughts here: https://twitter.com/alexpotato/status/1350530940561457155 https://twitter.com/alexpotato/status/1350530940561457155

benfrain 6y ago

Has anyone mentioned the Zergotech Freedom? New to the market and built like a tank. Review: https://benfrain.com/review-zergotech-freedom-ergonomic-mechanical-keyboard/ https://benfrain.com/review-zergotech-freedom-ergonomic-mech... The glass sliding armrests are certainly unique.

rpiguyshy 6y ago

why is there no "typing glove?" some kind of device that is attached to your hand that tracks the minute movement of your fingers, and translates them into keystrokes? the amount of physical movement for each keystroke would be dramatically reduced and so it would be faster as well. even without going this far, wouldnt it be much faster to have a keyboard where there is only one button for each finger, and combinations of depressions map to keys? that way you would never have to move your fingers more than is necessary.

Symbiote 6y ago
The closest is probably the Lalboard: https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard
- rpiguyshy 6y ago
  this is almost exactly what i was talking about! but this seems like it uses a ring of buttons around each finger. it uses more than one discreet button per finger rather than one button per finger plus using combinations of key-presses. and i think the design is flawed ergonomically because your fingers press downward instead of inward. an ideal version of this keyboard would be a ring about the size of your palm with keys around its edge, and to use it you mate your palm with the surface of the ring and pull on each key to depress it kind of like the way you pull the trigger of a gun. has nobody really made that yet?

Syzygies 6y ago

After a decade-long respite from three flaky Kinesis Advantage keyboards (they must have modernized by now) and a several year foray into the Dvorak layout, I went way down the mechanical keyboard rabbit hole last year. After some beginner choices (Obinslab Anne 2 Pro), I quickly rejected any keyboard that didn't support QMK firmware. My configuration has two sets of nine "tap/hold" keys (UIO JKL M,. and their mirrors) for modifier keys and custom layers. My hands hardly move, which for my particular physical health seems more important than their position on my desk, and more important than the QWERTY - Dvorak question. My favorite mechanical keyboards had been the GergoPlex, ErgoDox EZ, Planck EZ, and a KBDFans DZ60. Then I purchased a Leopold FC660C and Hasu's replacement QMK controller. I like Topre switches so much more than any mechanical switch I've tried, that I can't bring myself to use any other keyboard. Topre switches are the obsession killer. You can't swap them, you can't post pictures on Reddit of your gaudy new keycaps, all you can do is customize your QMK configuration. It's a bit like the shaving rabbit hole. What sticks, if one returns to expensive Gillette cartridges, is the brush and Mitchell's Wool Fat Shaving Soap. No one returns to spray cans.

Syzygies 6y ago
One thought "design pattern" I pay attention to is respecting multiple modes. For example, language learning tends to focus on single-phase progress. In practice, a tourist such as myself, bad at many languages, will study before a trip and hope it all comes together during the trip. One realistically doesn't continue studying during a trip, but one's mind shortens available connections to develop a working facility. This favors committing a radio play to memory, over the staggered recall patterns of single-phase language study. Von Neumann could recall entire books, but in sequence. That's key. For keyboards, the most novel designs are better at intense coding sessions, but worse at hunt-and-peck finding an arrow key, or muting one's computer in the middle of the night before the dog wakes everyone up. For me, the middle "tap/hold" zone of my Leopold FC660C is perfect for long coding and typing sessions, while the periphery does a great job of supporting casual use.

therealdrag0 6y ago

PSA: There's a marketplace on reddit for buying/selling mechanical keyboards: https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/