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That does sound like a pretty stress-free way to live! That said, living in Europe doesn't always equal good living conditions and stability - it depends on th

That does sound like a pretty stress-free way to live! That said, living in Europe doesn't always equal good living conditions and stability - it depends on the particular country you're in as well. My net salary is just over 1000€ per month as a software dev. My living expenses eat up around half of that. If a quick search turns up that in USA the median salary for a dev is around 100k$ per year ( https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-developer/salary https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-develope... ), that means that i'd need anywhere from ~8 to ~14 years to save as much as they could in a year (depending on their disposable income, taxes, currency value etc.). In short, i'd much prefer not to spend a decade to get to the point where i'm as financially stable who's worked for a year, if even that. People oftentimes mention purchasing power parity, but it breaks down in a global economy: for example, i cannot afford AWS and most SaaS/PaaS tools. That's just one of the reasons why one could look for a better financial situation. Compound interest and investments in general could be another. Stability and peace of mind, although not guaranteed, could be a third.

ano88888 6y ago
That seems really underpaid. I live in south east asia and my net pay is above 4000 Euro (excluding year end bonus which could be 6 to 12 months salary) . There is no social benefits though.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  Why would your year end bonus be equal to your yearly salary? That just seems out of whack.
- digianarchist 6y ago
  South East Asia could mean Singapore or Cambodia. Huge difference between those countries
snicker7 6y ago
> over 1000€ per month I would like to know what country/city you are based out of. In the US, that wage is well below the poverty line.
- throwawayzRUU6f 6y ago
  That's not all that uncommon in eastern Europe. I used to earn 5€/hour at my first programming gig in Slovakia. LV in the parent's post likely refers to Latvia. In fact, even in the first world countries like Italy or Spain it's not uncommon to earn less than 1700€ net. Here in Finland, 80% of the US GDP/capita btw, some entry level positions are at 2000€ net.
drdaeman 6y ago
> My net salary is just over 1000€ That's really low, even for poorer European countries. Decent middle-level software engineer in, let's say, Ukraine (no offense meant - it is a good country, just isn't one famous for high incomes), easily makes at least 2k (and I say "at least" - that's awfully underpaid). > that means that i'd need anywhere from ~8 to ~14 years to save as much as they could in a year That's a bit exaggerated figure. It's 100k before taxes (so, around $5.8k/mo), and rent (or mortgage) costs are significantly higher (I believe it's around $1-3k/mo, highly varying depending on where you live and how comfortable you live). And it's not just rent but other expenses as well.
- dnpp123 6y ago
  > That's really low, even for poorer European countries He said net salary. I know a lot of engineers from C schools in mid-size towns in France who are paid less than 2k euro net.
  - Jommi 6y ago
    That's still insanely low. With all these people reporting low salaries in constantly thinking where on earth are you when a European startup is hiring talent :D
  - jtwaleson 6y ago
    France is really terrible in terms of SWE compensation. I think I know why. I've had some traineeship / internship requests from French students and their mentality seems so much more like "engineering" career trajectory than "hacker". Engineer: "yes, of course it is normal to be a trainee for 2 years, then a junior for 5, then a medior for 5 and of I'm really good I'll be a senior. I would be really thankful if you consider hiring me." With this mindset you don't expect high wages. Hacker: I am a ninja rockstar, I don't need any certifications and you should be happy if I decide to work for you because I should actually be working at FAANG.
    - erdo 6y ago
      Well... just because a developer claims to be a senior engineer (with only 2 years experience) it doesn't actually make them a senior engineer, it makes them a bullsh*ter :D
LordAtlas 6y ago
> My net salary is just over 1000€ per month You would be underpaid in India, where I live, let alone Europe.
throwaway894345 6y ago
I considered moving to France for a few years (from the US), but I was shocked to find it would be a 40% pay cut, even after factoring in all of the healthcare and other expenses we Americans enjoy. And the cost of living is a fair bit higher in France to boot. Now that companies are cozying up to remote work, I think I’ll jist do more frequent 3 month trips and work in the evenings when I run out of vacation days. Then I can keep my cushy American salary and afford to travel, avoid dealing with VISAs, and France get my cost of living / tourism money without me taking a Frenchman’s job. Seems like a better arrangement all around.
- JCharante 6y ago
  > I think I’ll jist do more frequent 3 month trips and work in the evenings when I run out of vacation days. Then I can keep my cushy American salary and afford to travel, avoid dealing with VISAs, and France get my cost of living / tourism money without me taking a Frenchman’s job. Hopefully countries will also warm up to remote work and will create legal avenues for individuals to do remote work while still paying taxes.
  - neilparikh 6y ago
    I've already seen visas like this popping, under "digital nomad" visas, but none of them are in "developed" (ex. G7) countries. I suspect those will be the last to adopt them, since they don't really need the tax/tourism dollars as much. For them, the primary purpose of immigration is to fill jobs in the country, which remote workers don't do.
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  > avoid dealing with VISAs VISA is a name of a company. What you mean is just "visa".
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    shrugs in autocorrect
- 6y ago
ACS_Solver 6y ago
> My net salary is just over 1000€ per month as a software dev. You're way underpaid even for Latvia. The national average now is 1100 EUR gross, or 812 EUR net (https://www.lsm.lv/raksts/zinas/ekonomika/videja-alga-uz-papira-latvija-1100-eiro.a361484/ https://www.lsm.lv/raksts/zinas/ekonomika/videja-alga-uz-pap...), but for the IT field the average gross is 1829 EUR, which I believe is around 1300 net. Unless you're somewhere in Latgale where everything is much cheaper, or unless you just graduated last year, your net income should be at least some 20% higher.
alkonaut 6y ago
The ferries to Stockholm is right around the corner. There are 13 software jobs to the dozen, you don't need any paperwork to work there, and €4k per month would be considered "bad" there. If I was in Latvia and spoke english I'd do it in a heartbeat. Even if I couldn't physically move, I'd definitely try to get a remote job from there even if it meant a slighly lower pay than an on-site one. Obviously, you'd have much higher living costs and the weather would be slighty worse, but lets face it no one lives in Latvia for the weather either!

ano88888 6y ago

That seems really underpaid. I live in south east asia and my net pay is above 4000 Euro (excluding year end bonus which could be 6 to 12 months salary) . There is no social benefits though.

Aeolun 6y ago
Why would your year end bonus be equal to your yearly salary? That just seems out of whack.
digianarchist 6y ago
South East Asia could mean Singapore or Cambodia. Huge difference between those countries

snicker7 6y ago

> over 1000€ per month I would like to know what country/city you are based out of. In the US, that wage is well below the poverty line.

throwawayzRUU6f 6y ago
That's not all that uncommon in eastern Europe. I used to earn 5€/hour at my first programming gig in Slovakia. LV in the parent's post likely refers to Latvia. In fact, even in the first world countries like Italy or Spain it's not uncommon to earn less than 1700€ net. Here in Finland, 80% of the US GDP/capita btw, some entry level positions are at 2000€ net.

drdaeman 6y ago

> My net salary is just over 1000€ That's really low, even for poorer European countries. Decent middle-level software engineer in, let's say, Ukraine (no offense meant - it is a good country, just isn't one famous for high incomes), easily makes at least 2k (and I say "at least" - that's awfully underpaid). > that means that i'd need anywhere from ~8 to ~14 years to save as much as they could in a year That's a bit exaggerated figure. It's 100k before taxes (so, around $5.8k/mo), and rent (or mortgage) costs are significantly higher (I believe it's around $1-3k/mo, highly varying depending on where you live and how comfortable you live). And it's not just rent but other expenses as well.

dnpp123 6y ago
> That's really low, even for poorer European countries He said net salary. I know a lot of engineers from C schools in mid-size towns in France who are paid less than 2k euro net.
- Jommi 6y ago
  That's still insanely low. With all these people reporting low salaries in constantly thinking where on earth are you when a European startup is hiring talent :D
- jtwaleson 6y ago
  France is really terrible in terms of SWE compensation. I think I know why. I've had some traineeship / internship requests from French students and their mentality seems so much more like "engineering" career trajectory than "hacker". Engineer: "yes, of course it is normal to be a trainee for 2 years, then a junior for 5, then a medior for 5 and of I'm really good I'll be a senior. I would be really thankful if you consider hiring me." With this mindset you don't expect high wages. Hacker: I am a ninja rockstar, I don't need any certifications and you should be happy if I decide to work for you because I should actually be working at FAANG.
  - erdo 6y ago
    Well... just because a developer claims to be a senior engineer (with only 2 years experience) it doesn't actually make them a senior engineer, it makes them a bullsh*ter :D

LordAtlas 6y ago

> My net salary is just over 1000€ per month You would be underpaid in India, where I live, let alone Europe.

throwaway894345 6y ago

I considered moving to France for a few years (from the US), but I was shocked to find it would be a 40% pay cut, even after factoring in all of the healthcare and other expenses we Americans enjoy. And the cost of living is a fair bit higher in France to boot. Now that companies are cozying up to remote work, I think I’ll jist do more frequent 3 month trips and work in the evenings when I run out of vacation days. Then I can keep my cushy American salary and afford to travel, avoid dealing with VISAs, and France get my cost of living / tourism money without me taking a Frenchman’s job. Seems like a better arrangement all around.

JCharante 6y ago
> I think I’ll jist do more frequent 3 month trips and work in the evenings when I run out of vacation days. Then I can keep my cushy American salary and afford to travel, avoid dealing with VISAs, and France get my cost of living / tourism money without me taking a Frenchman’s job. Hopefully countries will also warm up to remote work and will create legal avenues for individuals to do remote work while still paying taxes.
- neilparikh 6y ago
  I've already seen visas like this popping, under "digital nomad" visas, but none of them are in "developed" (ex. G7) countries. I suspect those will be the last to adopt them, since they don't really need the tax/tourism dollars as much. For them, the primary purpose of immigration is to fill jobs in the country, which remote workers don't do.
burntoutfire 6y ago
> avoid dealing with VISAs VISA is a name of a company. What you mean is just "visa".
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  shrugs in autocorrect
6y ago

ACS_Solver 6y ago

> My net salary is just over 1000€ per month as a software dev. You're way underpaid even for Latvia. The national average now is 1100 EUR gross, or 812 EUR net (https://www.lsm.lv/raksts/zinas/ekonomika/videja-alga-uz-papira-latvija-1100-eiro.a361484/ https://www.lsm.lv/raksts/zinas/ekonomika/videja-alga-uz-pap...), but for the IT field the average gross is 1829 EUR, which I believe is around 1300 net. Unless you're somewhere in Latgale where everything is much cheaper, or unless you just graduated last year, your net income should be at least some 20% higher.

alkonaut 6y ago

The ferries to Stockholm is right around the corner. There are 13 software jobs to the dozen, you don't need any paperwork to work there, and €4k per month would be considered "bad" there. If I was in Latvia and spoke english I'd do it in a heartbeat. Even if I couldn't physically move, I'd definitely try to get a remote job from there even if it meant a slighly lower pay than an on-site one. Obviously, you'd have much higher living costs and the weather would be slighty worse, but lets face it no one lives in Latvia for the weather either!