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Twitter Confirms It Halted 'Hang Mike Pence' as a Trending Topic
- st1x7 6y agoIt's kind of sad to see how these threads quickly turn into a a messy sequence of poorly reasoned arguments or how some people are trying to justify really extreme positions.
- slg 6y agoIt is interesting that this comment is written in a specifically vague way so no one can tell if the "extreme position" you are talking about is hanging the sitting VP or censoring social media. Therefore lots of people are going to upvote this thinking you are on their side and it is the other side that uses "poorly reasoned arguments" to defend their "really extreme positions."
- st1x7 6y agoI was referring to the threats of hanging in this case. I phrased it more generally because there are many other examples from the similar threads that we've had over the past couple of days. It's astounding that I even need to clarify this.
- greatgirl 6y agoThis was my thought exactly. It's a technique that i see people like Sam Altman and other tech gurus use on twitter. Make no specific mention about who or what you're talking about, and your words can apply to everything and appeal to everyone. I'll say my own personal quiet part out loud: Every thread on this topic has the highest upvoted chain of comments about how "Trump was bad, but i worry about the implications of banning politicians". This sole statement has been stretched to its logical limits. There's very little more to discuss about this that is interesting or new.
- oblio 6y agoThe horoscope of political opinions. Read whatever you wish from your daily horoscope! :-)
- harmmonica 6y agoThis would be whack-a-mole otherwise, but when I saw this trending the vast majority of the tweets were sharing videos of people chanting that slogan in the Capitol amidst the storm. By suppressing the sharing of that information people are actually less likely to be aware that's what they were chanting (I know I would be less aware because that's where I learned about it). Now I guess there's the potential they weren't actually shouting that and it was dubbed, but it seemed credible based on many of the sources discussing it on twitter, some of whom were 1 degree separated from the source of the video. Aside: there are so many landmines in me writing this that I don't know how to qualify my comments well enough to not be accused of something. Guess no one has to say to me "may you live in interesting times."
- paulryanrogers 6y agoIs it enough for other news organizations or even more small time / personal sources to mirror the videos? Possibly something that can convey more context than 280 characters allows?
- harmmonica 6y agoI think you're right. Getting access to this info would always be possible through other, more in-depth sources. I see this comment here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25705945 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25705945, which is a good one and pre-internet was the only way these types of things would "trend" in the past (at least beyond some tiny fraction of the population).
- megameter 6y agoEven in a low level sense, this is an inherent calculation to the doing of moderation. If you let a hot button issue be spoken of freely, it dominates the timeline. If you cut it out, something else becomes the topic in its place, but that can actually help with discussing the issue by forcing it to be addressed only indirectly, linked into a larger narrative, instead of with reactive side-taking. Blocking the trend, in this instance, is different from blocking the speech.
- 6y ago
- wwmjdo 6y agoNow this is just going too far. When will the government step in and compel Twitter to respect the free speech of these patriotic Americans? Conservative voices are being silenced!
- corytheboyd 6y agoGood. Calls for violence are unacceptable.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- smadge 6y agoI think what makes it murky is that it was trending because people were likely mostly critically quoting Wednesdays insurrectionists, not endorsing their words.
- kerng 6y agoIt was more about documenting what happened a few days ago and what intentions the rioters had. That context is lacking and should have been provided by Twitter right away when making it "trending".
- corytheboyd 6y ago“Hang Mike Pence” is a call for violence.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- dgellow 6y agoThat's what some of the protesters were screaming. It started trending when people pointed this fact, not as a support for it, but because people were freaking out and started to document/discuss it.
- corytheboyd 6y agoI get that it was said by protesters, and that it started trending because of that. At the end of the day the phrase “Hang Mike Pence” ended up on the trending section of Twitter. Millions of people look at this. It was removed by Twitter, and it was the right call. Justifying calls to violence due to “missing context” is a poor argument, and now is just not the time to toy with being lax on this.
- trianglem 6y agoThese people are a lost cause. There was a vicious attack on an unassuming black woman in LA yesterday where more than 20 trump supporters held her down and punched and maced her. These people are terrorists and should be dealt with accordingly.
- flowerlad 6y agoLA Times story on this: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-01-08/black-woman-describes-terrifying-attack-by-trump-mob-in-l-a-im-thinking-im-dead https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-01-08/black-wo...
- throwaway201103 6y agoThat's a very disturbing read.
- 45t3424rgf 6y agoSo? Just because a few people did something unacceptable doesn't all of them are like this. A while back a child got killed named Cannon Hinnant by a black person for no reason does that mean we should label all blacks as a terrorist?
- mcphage 6y agoAnd what happened to the killer?
- virtual_void 6y agoWhen people use violence in the name of a cause then i think the cap fits. Also i think you’re making a false equivalence here. There is a not insignificant fraction of them willing to be violent because because they either don’t (or don’t want to) understand how democracy works. I think it’s fine to lump those people together as domestic terrorists.
- adnzzzzZ 6y ago
- meesterdude 6y agoCan confirm - i've retweeted some of the recent "hang mike pence" related tweets. The great thing, that this title doesn't clarify, is that a lot of the trending tweets (at least of recent, and what i RT) are not promoting the hanging of pence, but speaking out against it and the people who say it. I've never liked mike pence, we have opposing perspectives - but man, i have never even thought about hanging him. But these rioters, who in theory are part of his party, were there and ready to hang him because he didn't do what they wanted, just did his job. Something I have to give him credit for.
- isoskeles 6y agoI've (anecdotally) observed this is the case with some trending topics. You'll go check out something like #BabyKillingIsGood (not real, I made this hash tag up obviously), thinking, wow that's crazy, the hashtag invokes an idea I find quite objectionable as would any reasonable person. And 99.9% of the tweets on that hash tag are, "Um, actually, killing babies is not good. #BabyKillingIsGood #DumbIdea #No #Disagree #Etc."
- sumpterboy 6y agoWhat's next, they won't even sell you the rope at the hardware store? Am I expected to grow my own lynching tree? Should I accelerate the incubation of my own Mike Pence clone, in the basement of my own research lab!?
- easterncalculus 6y agoSometimes I wonder if most or all of the problems with major social media sites come from trending pages and private groups. The concept of keeping up with people online isn't a bad one, but so many of the bad stories wouldn't be so terrible if they weren't amplified by trending pages or huge private groups. Trending pages most consistently, in my opinion.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- tester756 6y agoI considered trying to get visa to USA and work there, but honestly last year makes me really worried about living there is it safe to live there?
- petschge 6y agoDepends very much where in the US. And to some extend how you look, how you talk and what your gender is. The overwhelmingly large majority to places is safe. But every large enough city has unsavory places that need at least being aware of what (not) to do. But that is similar in a lot of countries.
- almost_usual 6y ago>Is it safe to live there? As someone who has lived here my entire life I'm not sure how the next month is going to unfold. Historically though the United States has crime issues, a few of the most dangerous cities in the world (not in a war zone) are in the US (St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate https://apnews.com/article/homicide-st-louis-coronavirus-pandemic-crime-e24d1119a205e44c8059d1dd0080641f https://apnews.com/article/homicide-st-louis-coronavirus-pan...
- Triv888 6y agoSurprisingly, Orlando is apparently also one of the most violent city in the US.
- SoSoRoCoCo 6y agoYou probably can't get a VISA. Trump really turned the screws to the # of available ones, only 85K H1B last year (200,000 people applied). Might want to wait a year for Biden to fix that.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- st1x7 6y ago> is it safe to live there? This varies a lot depending on where you live, your skin color and your socioeconomic status.
- dmode 6y agoWhy would a Trump supporter want to “hang Mike Pence” when he has been loyal to him for 4 years and just did his constitutional duty on the 6th ? I am lost for words
- CPLX 6y agoWorth noting that sudden executions of the number two in command is a pretty common occurrence in authoritarian government situations.
- macintux 6y agoOne man's "just did his constitutional duty" is another man's "completed a stolen, fraudulent election". I'm in the first camp, but the fact that an entire news/social media ecosystem is promoting the latter interpretation is a problem I have no idea how to solve.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y agoIt's the same old extremist playbook that's been in operation in American politics since at least 2001. You're either with us or against us, no room for debate, our way or the highway, literal saint or literal demon. Then turn around and claim that your opponents don't want to hear you out or compromise, because to you compromise means getting everything you want.
- aaronbrethorst 6y agoIt’s older than that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson
- ansible 6y agoWelcome to identity politics! There is "us", and there is "them". If you are not a part of "us" then you are an enemy. Some of the most dangerous enemies are people who previously appeared to be part of "us", but have now betrayed our cause.
- npunt 6y agoOn a good day like a third of twitter's trending topics are people saying "I can't believe this is a trending topic". Irrespective of that there's a certain authority imbued with words listed in a trending topics section, whether or not the user clicks on them. Since trending topics lack context, there's a literalism to them that can distort meaning. As much of this was about a reaction to the video rather than a literal interpretation, it would probably be best to reword it with more context or make it a news item, if it's to remain up at all.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Darmody 6y agoIf that was about reporting what happened at the Capitol I don't think it should've been removed. But if people was asking in Twitter for Pence to be hanged, then yes. We shouldn't treat the same way reporting violence than violence itself.
- gkoberger 6y agoI don't think I agree. Me tweeting "it's bad to say 'hang mike pence'" is still letting the concept of Mike Pence being hanged propagate. I mean, we're talking about it right now on Hacker News, even! Toxic ideas are like a virus, and even well-meaning opposition can serve as a host, allowing them to spread rapidly rather than die out.
- nevi-me 6y agoTrue. Not a great example, but "don't think of an elephant" is a good example of this effect, where someone who otherwise wasn't thinking of elephants, starts thinking of one. The context of the discussion becomes less relevant if only the phrase trends. The seed gets sown in the mind.
- Darmody 6y agoThen what do you suggest? To we censor the news altogether? They report facts and usually they do it on a very editorialized way. Hiding information from the population is what authoritarian states do.
- gkoberger 6y agoWell, the government doesn't have any say in Twitter trends, so it's hard to argue this is what an "authoritarian state" does. It's a private company that would prefer its product isn't used in the murder of a politician. I don't have an answer, and I don't think there is one. I do, however, wish there was more scrutiny of the people spreading the message (aka the president of the united states) than companies trying to navigate this really tough balance.
- ansible 6y agoI'm glad they halted that. But it reduces the common area we can even discuss anything going on this week in politics. Taking a step back... We've got these two sides. Regardless of the merits, each side believes they know the truth, and that the other side is delusional. And it is easy enough to engage with your media outlets of choice, and get your beliefs reinforced. How can we have a meaningful discussion as a nation, when there is no apparent common ground? No set of agreed-upon facts? Now I of course have my own very strong opinions and I'm sure I have a good comprehension of the truth. But that isn't going to convince anyone on the other side anymore. To people on one side, the other side's minds appear to be just poisoned. A common tactic to try to get through to the other side is to just yell louder. But that isn't working. What's left? What can be done?
- duxup 6y agoI don't know what to say to people who want someone else killed...
- ansible 6y agoAlmost everyone (including really terrible people) don't want people killed. That is why it is often necessary to de-humanize the enemy. We give them labels, make them not worthy of the protections of civil society, and then it is justified if they die. Because they are not people anymore.
- playtriot 6y agoThat's not quite it either, the truth is actually worse. We know the other side are people, the fact that we insult them acknowledges that. Think of hitler youth forcing a rabbi to scrub the pavement on their hands and knees. The cruelty is intentional, not based on seeing them as less than human.
- hehehaha 6y agoThat’s just not true. We have nearly an entire human history to prove otherwise. The only reason why we stopped killing each other is due to nuclear bombs.
- jelliclesfarm 6y agoNot long ago, there was a #guillotine hashtag on Twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/guillotine2020?lang=en https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/guillotine2020?lang=en Wasn’t ‘halted’. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/guillotine https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/guillotine https://mobile.twitter.com/notallbhas/status/1247912479340015616 https://mobile.twitter.com/notallbhas/status/124791247934001... : Bernie sanders’ plan c = guillotine
- nevi-me 6y agoWhataboutism is a slippery slope. We can't justify action being taken by looking at the times it wasn't taken. What about the idea that the tweet you've linked to was not after a sudden mob of violence was mobilised?
- xnx 6y agoThat's an interesting comparison. A generic death threat seems very different than one directed at a specific individual.
- amanaplanacanal 6y agoLike probably most people in the discussion here, I think I’m smarter than the average person, and can discern the truth from multiple conflicting claims. But a little introspection shows me that no, this isn’t really true. I’m not hunting down original sources for everything I think I know, I’m mostly relying on gatekeepers (experts) to tell me what is true. Unfortunately, in social media, everybody gets to be an expert! How can the average person tell? As much as it goes against my grain, I have to admit that society works better when the gatekeepers decide what the truth is, even though we know they don’t always get it right. Our current technology allowing any kind of garbage to be amplified to the masses is making things worse, not better.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y agoYou are right. No one person can know everything about everything. Heaven's know I defer to experts if I know I can trust their opinion. The issue is trust. And US has about only one institution left that people seem to trust. Military. It does not bode well for the fate of the republic.
- lazugod 6y agoI wouldn’t agree that Americans universally trust their military.
- rufus_foreman 6y agoGallup poll numbers are at https://news.gallup.com/poll/1597/confidence-institutions.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1597/confidence-institutions.as.... I don't know that "people" in the original argument equates to "universally", but the only institutions that a majority of people have either a "Great deal" or "Quite a lot" of trust in are the medical system (just barely, 51%), the military (72%), and small business (75%). So small business is trusted more than the military, and basically nothing else is. 6% of people have a great deal of trust in Congress and 9% in television news which I guess are around the percentage of dentists who recommend sugared gum to their patients who chew gum.
- stunt 6y agoIt will take years to fix this. We should educate people about populism.
- jb775 6y agoI'd love to see Twitter's lifetime list of "Halted" trending topics. Obviously this is a more understandable example, but it's interesting to note Twitter admitting politically relevant trending-topic censorship.
- wtfiswiththis 6y agoA couple things stick out from the legislative and violent coup attempt at the Capitol. The legislative side looked doomed to fail so Trump rallied his peers and incited them with words like trial by combat via Rudy Giuliani. 1. Pence was pressured before and DURING the siege. Trump called once his followers were besieging the building to pressure Pence to overthrow the certified votes of this nation. His rhetoric was 100% responsible for the crowd's focus on Pence. 2. Trump directly pointed at the media at the rally and labeled them again as the enemy. During the siege all sorts of media members were violently assaulted. With the mob labeling them antifa as a means to rationalize mob violence against them. An AP reporter sustained a beating for several minutes as the crowd shouted for his death. The doors on the Capitol building had "murder the media" scrawled on it by Trump/GOP's supporters. They chanted for Pence's hanging at the same doors. This was a coup attempt coordinated and driven by sitting Republicans and the President of the USA. There is a direct line to be drawn from their actions to the results seen in the Capitol. The coup barely failed.