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I think this is actually a fantastic place for Apple. I'm happy to trash Apple where appropriate and I've got plenty of complaints. I think Apple does it's best

by zcw100 6y ago

I think this is actually a fantastic place for Apple. I'm happy to trash Apple where appropriate and I've got plenty of complaints. I think Apple does it's best when the integration of hardware and software is really important and there is a very low tolerance for, I won't say bugs, but issues. They're headphones. I want to put them on and they need to make noise. I'm not dealing with connectivity issues, battery issues, etc. Sure they're $500 but when Apple gets it right I'm happy to pay $500 for something that works than $300 for the first try that I eventually stop using because of some issue or another then another try at $350 for something a little better only to finally throw in the towel an pay the $500 to Apple that might not be perfect but hits it on enough points that I want to use them. Battery, I need to be able to easily and quickly know what the status is and I need to know that if I plugged them in before I go to bed I'll be good to go all day, the next day and I don't have to think about charging. Connectivity. When I go to use them I need them to connect and work. No fiddling around with loss of connection or not connecting in the first place. With the spatial audio they're actually cheap if you figure I'm done with any Dolby Atmos, 9.1, 7.1, 5.1 etc stand alone setup. I'm watching movies with this. I'm tired of all the speakers, decoder, amp, wires, sub, constant upgrades. Compare this to even the least expensive stand alone 5.1 system and it's a very inexpensive alternative.

cactus2093 6y ago
Having paid $350 for Bose QC3 headphones 4 years ago, that I use every day but sometimes have to fight with when e.g. my MacBook Pro keeps trying to steal focus even though i shut it and am trying to use the headphones with my phone now, etc. I completely agree. Paying a bit more for something that just works as well as my airpods do, assuming that this delivers, is totally worth it. On top of that, I expect the sound quality will be a big step up, and the spatial audio might be really cool.
- theNJR 6y ago
  I see you’ve never used AirPods between multiple devises. It’s become a lot better in the last year, but that’s only because it started out infuriating. QC3s were much better than AirPods at multi device up until a recent update.
  - bognition 6y ago
    Its wild to see such different experiences. I have QC35s and they've never paired correctly with my iPhone. Part of that, I suspect, is because you have to use the stupid Bose app to pair your BT headphones. Why Bose doesn't let you pair them using the standard system is beyond me. In the end I only use the QC35s on my laptop which is a total disappointment.
    - theNJR 6y ago
      The app was essential in making it all work. Agreed that’s annoying.
    - jskajakzkjx 6y ago
      I have the QC 35 II and I didn’t need the app to pair them. There’s a physical switch that you can hold to enable Bluetooth pairing.
    - millzlane 6y ago
      You don't need the app what so ever unless you want to do a firmware update. Actually there is a standalone desktop app to do it.
    - fpgaminer 6y ago
      > Why Bose doesn't let you pair them using the standard system is beyond me. The app collects data on what music you listen to and sends it back to Bose. So obviously they want to encourage you to install and use the app. Last I checked, at least. Also, there are _two_ Bose apps now, and which one you use depends on which Bose QuietComfort headphones you have. That I have no explanation for.
      - nielsbot 6y ago
        does it really?
        mattstudio 6y ago
        It does! You can turn it off but by default it sends usage data back to Bose. To disable this go there hidden the setting under the profile icon in the top left then Privacy Policy.
- jseliger 6y ago
  You describe me well: I don't use mine every day, but I use them often, and in particular for work calls. If the microphone is great, and the call audio quality too, I'll probably get a pair at some point.
- nashashmi 6y ago
  > Paying a bit more for something that just works ... You hit a nerve with me on this one. I have heard this line all too often to encourage people spend more money. In this case it is not “a bit more”. But a whole lot more. Pricing needs to be brought to levels of sanity. The reason we are seeing ridiculous prices like these is because millennials don’t pay attention to prices or there is way too much credit in the market or because the gap between rich and poor is getting larger and larger. I understand the whole paying more for something that works better. I do. But this argument is often used by those who are terribly inexperienced at life, like a copy and paste of a rich experienced person’s take, only they don’t have money like the experienced person does.
  - joshuamarksmith 6y ago
    Exactly. You can get Sony XM4s for $279 right now. The Airpods Max are nearly double. And yes, that's the sale price; however, Apple products rarely go more than 10% off. Ever. So we can use $500 as a fair comparison, and it's still double after paying proportional taxes.
neuronic 6y ago
Nice alternative for someone with no other living human around.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  Or the alternative, lots of other living humans around who aren't interested in the full audio experience for a movie they're not watching.
bdcravens 6y ago
Apple's integration story is what keeps me, and I suspect others, firmly entrenched.
friday99 6y ago
Thanks for pointing out the spatial audio. It amazes me all the comments about price but not discussing what features these actually have. Dynamic head tracking for spatial audio could be really amazing and is not cheap to implement. These aren't just some "dumb" headphones with speakers in them. I'm really interested in trying these out on the Xbox X which has Dolby Atmos on a big screen and hearing the sounds move as you look around. Also, imagine silent discos with the DJ streaming in Atmos as you move around. Now if only there was a widely adopted open spatial audio standard instead of Atmos...
- OkGoDoIt 6y ago
  I believe you only get special audio with paired to an iOS device which also includes an accelerometer. So basically iPad and iPhone. Any third-party devices don’t get special audio, as far as I’m aware.
- kodisha 6y ago
  Wouldn't that require that music producers start producing music in spatial audio in the first place, no? And what would their incentive for something like that be?
- jkubicek 6y ago
  Dynamic head tracking spacial audio is available today with the Airpods Pro and it is amazing. Watching surround-sound TV with spacial audio enabled is basically indistinguishable from watching TV with a surround sound system and no headphones, to the point where I have to check to make sure the audio is playing through my headphones and not external speakers. Downside is that it only works with iPhone, iPad and AppleTV 4k. It's such an amazing upgrade over my current setup, though, that I'm planning on upgrading to an AppleTV 4K so that I'm not limited to using spatial audio on just my iPad.
  - jeanofthedead 6y ago
    ...as far as I'm aware, Spatial Audio does /not/ work on ATV4K. Could you show me where it does?
jordache 6y ago
> With the spatial audio they're actually cheap if you figure I'm done with any Dolby Atmos, 9.1, 7.1, 5.1 etc stand alone setup. I'm watching movies with this. Spatial audio is a replacement of true surround sound to you? it's a gimmicky weird audio effect to me. Zero sense of sound source behind or in front of me.
- jandrewrogers 6y ago
  Humans have limited ability to discriminate between directly in front and directly in back based solely on cues encoded in the audio. It is a well-known ambiguity in how we hear space along that narrow axis. How you arrange the sound sources doesn't matter much. Research has demonstrated that human perception of a sound being "front" or "back" is determined by non-aural sensory cues. Specifically, if you can see a plausible sound source in front of you, you will hear it in front of you. Front-to-back spatial discrimination is based almost entirely on the visual cortex providing a model of the space in which the sound notionally exists. In practice, humans subconsciously compensate for ambiguous front/back spatial positioning by turning their heads, putting the sound source on an axis where they do have excellent spatial discrimination. For obvious reasons this doesn't work well for headphones. Unless, of course, you have some kind of head tracking built into them.
  - jordache 6y ago
    interesting info. I'm sure visual sensory input factors somewhat into how audio positioning is being processed by the human brain. However an audio experience w/o visual input via physical surround sound sources provides convincing and precise positioning of audio sources. So that indicates visual input is just a tiny factor. What I struggle with given all audio enters the two years, regardless of headphones or multiple speakers, why is the latter so much better at conveying "surround" sound than headphone? Does this distill down to a simple scenario of sound waves entering the two ears?
    - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
      Yeah I'm skeptical about the statement as well. If you used a good binaural microphone [1] to record someone talking in front of the dummy head, and behind, in a small room, then played the audio back to someone through decent headphones, I'd be tremendously surprised if they couldn't immediately discern which recording was which. [1] https://www.gothamsound.com/product/ku-100-dummy-head-stereo-microphone https://www.gothamsound.com/product/ku-100-dummy-head-stereo...
tjoff 6y ago
You know what doesn't have a battery never had any connectivity issues (before apple) and just works? The 3.5mm jack. I'm all for options though! But apple don't so I guess it doesn't matter.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  I will tell you this, I do not miss headphone cords at all. Not one bit. I don't miss the cord snagging on parts of my desk, or my legs, or the arms of my office chair, or under the casters, etc. Not to mention cord noise on IEMs, which admittedly isn't really a problem on over-the-ear headphones anyway. I'll probably never buy another pair of corded headphones.
  - paulryanrogers 6y ago
    Landfills also don't feel as empty with all these new devices arriving 18-24 months later, original battery included.
  - tjoff 6y ago
    I use a pair every day. And I use bluetooth headphones every day. The existence of either doesn't make the other useless. And I have used bluetooth headphones for over a decade, I find it hilarious that when apple suddenly had a offering that it suddenly became obsolete with cords. It is impossible to overstate how much bluetooth sucks for temporary connections. I dare you, pair your device in my car. Or to play that song on a shared speaker setup. Just a quickie, see how well you do. Might work, might not. The outcome isn't decided by you alone or what device you are pairing with - guaranteed. The environmental impact alone should give one pause. As the batteries will go out and make the heaphones next to useless. Tech-savvy ones might replace them but that is hardly the norm. Yet my corded headphones are over a decade old sounds better than what apple is offering at a fraction of the price. They do not have active noise cancellation though - and that is a killer feature! For some situations... Not in my home, where I use them. Because I have the option to do so.
  - stouset 6y ago
    Not to mention spending five minutes untangling cords every time I take them out of my pocket, even when I want to listen to something for like 20 seconds.
visarga 6y ago
> I'm not dealing with connectivity issues, battery issues, etc. Sure they're $500 My AirPods often have bluetooth issues, even when coupled to a MacBook, not just any laptop. They fail at the basic function of making sound.
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  Yeah, I have no idea where people are getting the whole seamless wireless connectivity experience idea from. AirPods are pretty much awful in terms of connecting. It’s a little better than regular Bluetooth because of the case which gives a lot of visual feedback when you open it, but that’s mostly to trick your senses into not realizing it’s still just a shitty bluetooth headphone that takes forever to connect.
  - abc_lisper 6y ago
    My "trick" is to keep the AirPods can open when trying to connect. For some reason, it does better with the lid open.
  - throwaway1777 6y ago
    Because in the past most Bluetooth headphones were terrible and pretty much everyone got in pairing hell at some point. Airpods were much better than the status quo when launched.
    - Godel_unicode 6y ago
      That's simply not true. They might have been better than cheap bluetooth headphones with which they didn't compete, but there were plenty of price-competitive bluetooth headphones at the time which were as good or better. The only new things about airpods were the truly wireless nature (which was definitely an advantage) and the Apple logo*.
  - bluescrn 6y ago
    Being limited to Bluetooth range isn't great if you're using them with any device other than the phone in your pocket. While the Airpods seem better than some other Bluetooth devices, you can't walk far around your home/office before they start cutting out
low_common 6y ago
I bought a $100 pair of bluetooth Sennheisers that have a battery life that seems to be measured not in hours, but in days. I use them all day every day while working in the office, at home, or coffee shop. Music sounds great and so do movies. Never have to worry about the bluetooth connnection, pairs to my Mac or to my work laptop just fine. And they got to me with Amazon Prime. You do not need to spend $500 if all you need is headphones that do their job.
- dahfizz 6y ago
  > You do not need to spend $500 if all you need is headphones that do their job. Its amazing to me the number of Apple fanboys in this thread that seem to think that every other pair of headphones out there is completely broken, and nothing will "just work". This has been a solved problem for like a decade.
  - Veen 6y ago
    If you're not familiar with Apple ecosystem, it might seem peculiar. But Apple's integration means that "just works" entails, for instance, automatic switching between devices. So I'm listening to music on my iPad, I pause it, pick up my phone and start a YouTube video. The AirPods automatically switch from the iPad to the iPhone without me doing anything. Nothing else "just works" like that, and it's one reason people like to stay within the Apple ecosystem.
    - notnap 6y ago
      Bose QC 35 II work exactly as you described. Yes, Previous Beats Studio bought from Apple failed to deliver such experience, hence why Apple spent some dough on custom connectivity chips, but proper headphones OEMs figure it out as well with just latest Bluetooth generation
      - jolux 6y ago
        I have the QC35 II and they are incredibly flaky with connecting to multiple devices.
na85 6y ago
>I want to put them on and they need to make noise. >I'm not dealing with connectivity issues, battery issues, etc. >Battery, I need to be able to easily and quickly know what the status is and I need to know that if I plugged them in before I go to bed I'll be good to go all day, the next day and I don't have to think about charging. >Connectivity. When I go to use them I need them to connect and work. No fiddling around with loss of connection or not connecting in the first place. Wired headphones tick all these boxes. If not for Jony Ive's quest for a legacy and absurd fetish for thinner phones we wouldn't have to live the dongle life to have every feature you listed.
- danShumway 6y ago
  Yeah, I don't want to get dragged into the whole debate about headphone jacks again, but as long as someone else is saying it... headphones worked! They always worked. You plugged them in and they reliably made sound, everywhere, with high-quality audio. This comment is surreal. And yes, I get that a lot of people do want to use wireless headphones. I'm not here to argue about that, there are legitimate reasons why people want to get rid of wires. And I also get that these headphones are filled with other features like auto-pausing, noise cancelation. There are reasons someone might look at those features and think they're worth the price. But still -- to see the primary reaction be that the important part is "just working" still feels kind of validating to all of the people who originally called out Bluetooth headphones as a step backwards from where we were. I remember getting a lot of pushback from people who were all telling me that wireless headphones were going to get really cheap, and most of the growing pains were already over, and we were all just being ludites. But what am I supposed to think when I look at your high-tech future world, and the most popular comment is someone saying that they'll drop 550 dollars on a pair of headphones before they've even heard them, even though they'll only last 3-5 years before the battery dies -- just because it's worth that much money to have a device that reliably plays sound? How am I supposed to look at that and not come to the conclusion that the wireless market is still wildly inferior to the cheap, reliable, high-quality audio devices that came before? It's been however many years since Apple's removal of the headphone jack and practically every high-end Android manufacturer has since copied them. And what we see is headphones that are specifically designed to work with one brand of phone/computer, that are outrageously expensive, and apparently that expense is justified to some people because the entire rest of the market is filled with options that have minor-to-major irritations during daily use.
jbverschoor 6y ago
I bought the airpods when they came out. After 1.5 years of use, I get 5! minutes of talktime. Apple says "tough luck". No more headphones from Apple for me.
- philwelch 6y ago
  That’s 2 hours though.
  - exfalso 6y ago
    bahaha
- diebeforei485 6y ago
  The original AirPods are really bad for speaking. Airpods 2 work much better.
kyriakos 6y ago
Bluetooth for audio is a solved problem. I recently bought 3 pairs of headphones, one pair no name Chinese, one pair of bose and oneplus buds. All 3 connect, switch devices (laptop, phone etc) seamlessly. I understand there may have been issues in the past but my experience the last year tells me otherwise.
jeanofthedead 6y ago
Spatial Audio does not work with AppleTV4K, I'm afraid. It only works with compatible iPhones and iPads. This does not replace speakers, subs, etc.
fbelzile 6y ago
> I'm happy to pay $500 for something that works Sure, if by "works" you mean "only works with other Apple products." The cost isn't just $500, it's also the opportunity cost of going with any other competing (and possibly better) product in the future. Apple's pricing is high, but is even higher if you account for the hidden hand of future buying power you give them. It's a brilliant business strategy as it limits your choice as a consumer for the lifetime of the headphones. Say Apple decides to slow down your old iPhone again (what? no! [1])... Or maybe you just like the new Google Pixel. Sucks to be you, time to buy a new iPhone again ($$$) if you don't want your headphones to stop "just working." [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724
- _huayra_ 6y ago
  It's always shocking how Apple folks adopt a reality distortion field when it comes to explaining their reasoning. Whether it's avoiding justifying the things they claim they get from Apple ("seamless device interop") or ignoring the way Apple actively treats their customers like hot garbage (see Louis Rossman's youtube channel, or the asinine arguments companies like Apple lead against right to repair and all the poor board layout and non-interchangeable parts), instead of saying a reasonable answer like "I'm willing to be ripped off because I like the shiny buttons" or "I have one specific app I use on MacOS that I haven't had the time to replicate elsewhere", it's always some kind of indignation. If someone tells me my bargan-tier Samsung phone is slower than molasses, I'm not gonna say "yeah but I like the blue color". I'm gonna agree.
  - dragandj 6y ago
    Sometimes I'm even convinced that Apple is absolutely right in squeezing their captive users of every damn penny (or grand) they can squeeze. They should charge even more. (The customer is always right, especially the addicted one).
  - idiot900 6y ago
    I'm a long time Apple customer and have not noticed I was being treated like hot garbage. Their products have performed as promised with little to no hassle. Can't say the same for their competitors (MS, Linux, Samsung, etc), whose products I've used extensively over the past 25 years. I am not a computing novice. Call it a reality distortion field if you want but I am happy.
leokennis 6y ago
I agree with the general "it's expensive but for that price it just works" statement. For example, with AirPods Pro, you get automatic switching between devices, easy pairing, true wireless earbuds, wireless charging, great ANC and all that in an incredibly tiny package. But with these AirPods Pro...do you see anything they do that others don't? They are not lighter. Their battery life isn't better. They're not objectively prettier. Their case looks worse. They don't charge wirelessly. There's not a lot of gain to be had in comfort as opposed to earbuds (competing headphones from Bose for example are plenty comfortable). So...from what we already know, they have one thing others don't and that's the "magical" pairing and switching. And they are $250 more expensive. This means either they sound incredibly fantastic, or they are way overpriced.
- maerF0x0 6y ago
  > I agree with the general "it's expensive but for that price it just works" statement. One thing a "disparity" (as in variety) of wealth creates is slices of populace where the value of the solution is worth vastly more. Tech that "just works" is one such place. People placing higher value on convenience ... Another such place that is interesting is healthcare. Some portion of the market places longevity or health optimizations way beyond the traditional insurance models. They're willing to spend far and beyond the marginal savings from prevention to avoid health issues. An example might be taking expensive NMN/NR to potentially avoid future health issues, despite costing 100s per month. eg: https://www.elysiumhealth.com/en-us/science-101/8-reasons-why-nad https://www.elysiumhealth.com/en-us/science-101/8-reasons-wh...
floatingatoll 6y ago
The previous top-end for Apple's headphones was the ~$350 Beats Studio Wireless 3, which I've had a pair of the past three years. I often forget I'm wearing them when I've put them on just for noise canceling (without any music) until I bonk them with something, and their Bluetooth has been fine in use with a variety of Apple and non-Apple devices. Their biggest defect in my use has been that their folding mechanism leaves a slight indent on one point on the earcup foam. They're fine, but my desktop headphones have better quality (as they should, given the 5-10x increase in investment in them). I expect that the $550 AirPods Max will be exceptional, and comparable in quality to my desktop headphones, which will be an achievement for anything portable and wireless. The flatpack case solves the non-portability of the Beats (which have a case the size of a watermelon), and they've removed the logo and reconstructed the earcups to not get tangled in long hair. That's the kind of improvements I expected from Apple, and they appear to have delivered, at a price point that's about what I would expect for something that delivers impeccable audio (and sets them up for $150/$350/$550 market segments). The Studio beats are great, but these will be better. My biggest fear is that they'll be better than my desktop headphones. Works for me.
nvarsj 6y ago
No, just no. I got so tired of my airpods not connecting randomly, automatically switching to other devices at random times, losing most of their charge after a year, and so on, that I literally just use a pair of wired airpods now and it works great. Oh, except that Apple decided iPads should have USB-C but not iPhones, so now I can't even use my lightning airpods on more than one device. This Apple worship is the ultimate banality of consumerism. The Airpod max is about the dumbest thing I've ever seen Apple produce. I personally think it will be a big flop, but I guess we'll see.
- nvarsj 6y ago
  I regret my response here as being overly dramatic. I think I got triggered by some of the obvious Apple worship going on. But my response isn't much better.
cosmodisk 6y ago
I've read your comment and most of it makes sense. Then I sat for a bit and all I got in my head was: ffs it's $500 for some headphones. To me, this is a poor man's luxury item. It reminds me when the latest and most expensive iPhone came out.Two people bought it: the CEO and the young woman who was on the lowest salary in the company. For one it was pocket change, for the other it was 2-3 weeks earnings.
nomy99 6y ago
the current airpod pro's don't "just work". On numerous occasions the right/left airpod gets unpaired. The charge level of each piece is independent, which is odd considering both are placed in/out of ear simultaneously. There are even issues with the UI on the iphone to show the charge level. I have to open/close between 2-3 times to be prompted with the screen. Having said that, as a whole, the airpods do "just work" more than other bluetooth headphones, especially with the case that holds a charge.
- soupson 6y ago
  This is my experience as well. I have to clean the contacts or pair/unpair to get them to work properly. I’m hoping the max are less finicky
yudlejoza 6y ago
Ladies and gentlemen, cue the not-an-apple-fanboy-but astroturf.
neya 6y ago
The Sony 1000XM3/4 series actually does all this and more already and has been for the last few years. Of all the noise cancellation headphones I've tried they're the best out there in the market and you can have them for less than $500. What am I missing here?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
ketamine__ 6y ago
Apple Airpods don't connect to my MBP without a big delay. Maybe the firmware needs to be upgraded but I can't do it with my MBP and I don't own any other Apple products.
NicoJuicy 6y ago
I don't think comparing headphones to a 5.1 set is normal... Talking like other bluetooth headsets don't work is also not my experience. There is no way I'm paying the Apple premium for what is already a solved problem for my use-case.
shoulderfake 6y ago
clearly you dont feel the diff between 500 and 300. But I'll bet my left nut that these wont hold a candle to sennheiser or sony rival headphones
moltar 6y ago
I’ve had QC35s for 4 years now. No connectivity issues. Even connects to two devices at the same time.
httpsterio 6y ago
I guess you never have guests? Also a pair of headphones wont differ that much from a 2.1 system that'd I'd use that as an argument, it's all psychoacoustics mostly at that point. Also, when talking about speakers, what upgrades? You don't need yearly upgrades with speakers, unlike with Apple headphones. In the past ten years, I've spent about 400 dollars for a pair of Yamaha studio monitors fit for professional audio use, certainly for light audio entertainment as well. They'll still take any Apple headphones through the ringer in terms of quality.
swiley 6y ago
>I'm not dealing with connectivity issues, battery issues The $6 wired headset I bought from amazon for WFH and looks like something from the 90s works exactly like this.
SZJX 6y ago
On smartphones and tablets I can definitely agree with this sentiment. There's just nothing close to the reliability and comfort that iOS gives you (Used Nexus/Pixel for 5+ years and finally had enough and switched this year back to iPhone. God was my life so much easier). On earphones I'm not so sure. My Sony 1000XM2 works really well and I don't have advanced needs like switching devices constantly or sharing the audio with another person. Then again, maybe we just didn't know something is possible before somebody actually delivers it out there. The "spatial audio" thing I don't think would be a very good argument though. The promotion materials are extremely vague and I don't have much confidence that the noise cancelling/sound quality of this will be night and day compared to other established earphones. So I'm not caring too much about that aspect. As long as the sound quality is not worse than Sony/Bose/Sennheiser I'll be fine with it.
darkr 6y ago
> Compare this to even the least expensive stand alone 5.1 system and it's a very inexpensive alternative. I've had the same DTS/Dolby Digital 5.1 system for nearly 20 years. It still works flawlessly. I very much doubt that these headphones will be functional in 20 years time.
marakv2 6y ago
My current wireless headset costs $10. My wife bought it on sale, cheap Chinese crap, but I'd prefer to go through 10 pairs in the next year than shell out $500. That price point is crazy

by zcw100 6y ago

cactus2093 6y ago

Having paid $350 for Bose QC3 headphones 4 years ago, that I use every day but sometimes have to fight with when e.g. my MacBook Pro keeps trying to steal focus even though i shut it and am trying to use the headphones with my phone now, etc. I completely agree. Paying a bit more for something that just works as well as my airpods do, assuming that this delivers, is totally worth it. On top of that, I expect the sound quality will be a big step up, and the spatial audio might be really cool.

theNJR 6y ago
I see you’ve never used AirPods between multiple devises. It’s become a lot better in the last year, but that’s only because it started out infuriating. QC3s were much better than AirPods at multi device up until a recent update.
- bognition 6y ago
  Its wild to see such different experiences. I have QC35s and they've never paired correctly with my iPhone. Part of that, I suspect, is because you have to use the stupid Bose app to pair your BT headphones. Why Bose doesn't let you pair them using the standard system is beyond me. In the end I only use the QC35s on my laptop which is a total disappointment.
  - theNJR 6y ago
    The app was essential in making it all work. Agreed that’s annoying.
  - jskajakzkjx 6y ago
    I have the QC 35 II and I didn’t need the app to pair them. There’s a physical switch that you can hold to enable Bluetooth pairing.
  - millzlane 6y ago
    You don't need the app what so ever unless you want to do a firmware update. Actually there is a standalone desktop app to do it.
  - fpgaminer 6y ago
    > Why Bose doesn't let you pair them using the standard system is beyond me. The app collects data on what music you listen to and sends it back to Bose. So obviously they want to encourage you to install and use the app. Last I checked, at least. Also, there are _two_ Bose apps now, and which one you use depends on which Bose QuietComfort headphones you have. That I have no explanation for.
    - nielsbot 6y ago
      does it really?
      - mattstudio 6y ago
        It does! You can turn it off but by default it sends usage data back to Bose. To disable this go there hidden the setting under the profile icon in the top left then Privacy Policy.
jseliger 6y ago
You describe me well: I don't use mine every day, but I use them often, and in particular for work calls. If the microphone is great, and the call audio quality too, I'll probably get a pair at some point.
nashashmi 6y ago
> Paying a bit more for something that just works ... You hit a nerve with me on this one. I have heard this line all too often to encourage people spend more money. In this case it is not “a bit more”. But a whole lot more. Pricing needs to be brought to levels of sanity. The reason we are seeing ridiculous prices like these is because millennials don’t pay attention to prices or there is way too much credit in the market or because the gap between rich and poor is getting larger and larger. I understand the whole paying more for something that works better. I do. But this argument is often used by those who are terribly inexperienced at life, like a copy and paste of a rich experienced person’s take, only they don’t have money like the experienced person does.
- joshuamarksmith 6y ago
  Exactly. You can get Sony XM4s for $279 right now. The Airpods Max are nearly double. And yes, that's the sale price; however, Apple products rarely go more than 10% off. Ever. So we can use $500 as a fair comparison, and it's still double after paying proportional taxes.

neuronic 6y ago

Nice alternative for someone with no other living human around.

rootusrootus 6y ago
Or the alternative, lots of other living humans around who aren't interested in the full audio experience for a movie they're not watching.

bdcravens 6y ago

Apple's integration story is what keeps me, and I suspect others, firmly entrenched.

friday99 6y ago

Thanks for pointing out the spatial audio. It amazes me all the comments about price but not discussing what features these actually have. Dynamic head tracking for spatial audio could be really amazing and is not cheap to implement. These aren't just some "dumb" headphones with speakers in them. I'm really interested in trying these out on the Xbox X which has Dolby Atmos on a big screen and hearing the sounds move as you look around. Also, imagine silent discos with the DJ streaming in Atmos as you move around. Now if only there was a widely adopted open spatial audio standard instead of Atmos...

OkGoDoIt 6y ago
I believe you only get special audio with paired to an iOS device which also includes an accelerometer. So basically iPad and iPhone. Any third-party devices don’t get special audio, as far as I’m aware.
kodisha 6y ago
Wouldn't that require that music producers start producing music in spatial audio in the first place, no? And what would their incentive for something like that be?
jkubicek 6y ago
Dynamic head tracking spacial audio is available today with the Airpods Pro and it is amazing. Watching surround-sound TV with spacial audio enabled is basically indistinguishable from watching TV with a surround sound system and no headphones, to the point where I have to check to make sure the audio is playing through my headphones and not external speakers. Downside is that it only works with iPhone, iPad and AppleTV 4k. It's such an amazing upgrade over my current setup, though, that I'm planning on upgrading to an AppleTV 4K so that I'm not limited to using spatial audio on just my iPad.
- jeanofthedead 6y ago
  ...as far as I'm aware, Spatial Audio does /not/ work on ATV4K. Could you show me where it does?

jordache 6y ago

> With the spatial audio they're actually cheap if you figure I'm done with any Dolby Atmos, 9.1, 7.1, 5.1 etc stand alone setup. I'm watching movies with this. Spatial audio is a replacement of true surround sound to you? it's a gimmicky weird audio effect to me. Zero sense of sound source behind or in front of me.

jandrewrogers 6y ago
Humans have limited ability to discriminate between directly in front and directly in back based solely on cues encoded in the audio. It is a well-known ambiguity in how we hear space along that narrow axis. How you arrange the sound sources doesn't matter much. Research has demonstrated that human perception of a sound being "front" or "back" is determined by non-aural sensory cues. Specifically, if you can see a plausible sound source in front of you, you will hear it in front of you. Front-to-back spatial discrimination is based almost entirely on the visual cortex providing a model of the space in which the sound notionally exists. In practice, humans subconsciously compensate for ambiguous front/back spatial positioning by turning their heads, putting the sound source on an axis where they do have excellent spatial discrimination. For obvious reasons this doesn't work well for headphones. Unless, of course, you have some kind of head tracking built into them.
- jordache 6y ago
  interesting info. I'm sure visual sensory input factors somewhat into how audio positioning is being processed by the human brain. However an audio experience w/o visual input via physical surround sound sources provides convincing and precise positioning of audio sources. So that indicates visual input is just a tiny factor. What I struggle with given all audio enters the two years, regardless of headphones or multiple speakers, why is the latter so much better at conveying "surround" sound than headphone? Does this distill down to a simple scenario of sound waves entering the two ears?
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
    Yeah I'm skeptical about the statement as well. If you used a good binaural microphone [1] to record someone talking in front of the dummy head, and behind, in a small room, then played the audio back to someone through decent headphones, I'd be tremendously surprised if they couldn't immediately discern which recording was which. [1] https://www.gothamsound.com/product/ku-100-dummy-head-stereo-microphone https://www.gothamsound.com/product/ku-100-dummy-head-stereo...

tjoff 6y ago

You know what doesn't have a battery never had any connectivity issues (before apple) and just works? The 3.5mm jack. I'm all for options though! But apple don't so I guess it doesn't matter.

rootusrootus 6y ago
I will tell you this, I do not miss headphone cords at all. Not one bit. I don't miss the cord snagging on parts of my desk, or my legs, or the arms of my office chair, or under the casters, etc. Not to mention cord noise on IEMs, which admittedly isn't really a problem on over-the-ear headphones anyway. I'll probably never buy another pair of corded headphones.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  Landfills also don't feel as empty with all these new devices arriving 18-24 months later, original battery included.
- tjoff 6y ago
  I use a pair every day. And I use bluetooth headphones every day. The existence of either doesn't make the other useless. And I have used bluetooth headphones for over a decade, I find it hilarious that when apple suddenly had a offering that it suddenly became obsolete with cords. It is impossible to overstate how much bluetooth sucks for temporary connections. I dare you, pair your device in my car. Or to play that song on a shared speaker setup. Just a quickie, see how well you do. Might work, might not. The outcome isn't decided by you alone or what device you are pairing with - guaranteed. The environmental impact alone should give one pause. As the batteries will go out and make the heaphones next to useless. Tech-savvy ones might replace them but that is hardly the norm. Yet my corded headphones are over a decade old sounds better than what apple is offering at a fraction of the price. They do not have active noise cancellation though - and that is a killer feature! For some situations... Not in my home, where I use them. Because I have the option to do so.
- stouset 6y ago
  Not to mention spending five minutes untangling cords every time I take them out of my pocket, even when I want to listen to something for like 20 seconds.

visarga 6y ago

> I'm not dealing with connectivity issues, battery issues, etc. Sure they're $500 My AirPods often have bluetooth issues, even when coupled to a MacBook, not just any laptop. They fail at the basic function of making sound.

runawaybottle 6y ago
Yeah, I have no idea where people are getting the whole seamless wireless connectivity experience idea from. AirPods are pretty much awful in terms of connecting. It’s a little better than regular Bluetooth because of the case which gives a lot of visual feedback when you open it, but that’s mostly to trick your senses into not realizing it’s still just a shitty bluetooth headphone that takes forever to connect.
- abc_lisper 6y ago
  My "trick" is to keep the AirPods can open when trying to connect. For some reason, it does better with the lid open.
- throwaway1777 6y ago
  Because in the past most Bluetooth headphones were terrible and pretty much everyone got in pairing hell at some point. Airpods were much better than the status quo when launched.
  - Godel_unicode 6y ago
    That's simply not true. They might have been better than cheap bluetooth headphones with which they didn't compete, but there were plenty of price-competitive bluetooth headphones at the time which were as good or better. The only new things about airpods were the truly wireless nature (which was definitely an advantage) and the Apple logo*.
- bluescrn 6y ago
  Being limited to Bluetooth range isn't great if you're using them with any device other than the phone in your pocket. While the Airpods seem better than some other Bluetooth devices, you can't walk far around your home/office before they start cutting out

low_common 6y ago

I bought a $100 pair of bluetooth Sennheisers that have a battery life that seems to be measured not in hours, but in days. I use them all day every day while working in the office, at home, or coffee shop. Music sounds great and so do movies. Never have to worry about the bluetooth connnection, pairs to my Mac or to my work laptop just fine. And they got to me with Amazon Prime. You do not need to spend $500 if all you need is headphones that do their job.

dahfizz 6y ago
> You do not need to spend $500 if all you need is headphones that do their job. Its amazing to me the number of Apple fanboys in this thread that seem to think that every other pair of headphones out there is completely broken, and nothing will "just work". This has been a solved problem for like a decade.
- Veen 6y ago
  If you're not familiar with Apple ecosystem, it might seem peculiar. But Apple's integration means that "just works" entails, for instance, automatic switching between devices. So I'm listening to music on my iPad, I pause it, pick up my phone and start a YouTube video. The AirPods automatically switch from the iPad to the iPhone without me doing anything. Nothing else "just works" like that, and it's one reason people like to stay within the Apple ecosystem.
  - notnap 6y ago
    Bose QC 35 II work exactly as you described. Yes, Previous Beats Studio bought from Apple failed to deliver such experience, hence why Apple spent some dough on custom connectivity chips, but proper headphones OEMs figure it out as well with just latest Bluetooth generation
    - jolux 6y ago
      I have the QC35 II and they are incredibly flaky with connecting to multiple devices.

na85 6y ago

>I want to put them on and they need to make noise. >I'm not dealing with connectivity issues, battery issues, etc. >Battery, I need to be able to easily and quickly know what the status is and I need to know that if I plugged them in before I go to bed I'll be good to go all day, the next day and I don't have to think about charging. >Connectivity. When I go to use them I need them to connect and work. No fiddling around with loss of connection or not connecting in the first place. Wired headphones tick all these boxes. If not for Jony Ive's quest for a legacy and absurd fetish for thinner phones we wouldn't have to live the dongle life to have every feature you listed.

danShumway 6y ago
Yeah, I don't want to get dragged into the whole debate about headphone jacks again, but as long as someone else is saying it... headphones worked! They always worked. You plugged them in and they reliably made sound, everywhere, with high-quality audio. This comment is surreal. And yes, I get that a lot of people do want to use wireless headphones. I'm not here to argue about that, there are legitimate reasons why people want to get rid of wires. And I also get that these headphones are filled with other features like auto-pausing, noise cancelation. There are reasons someone might look at those features and think they're worth the price. But still -- to see the primary reaction be that the important part is "just working" still feels kind of validating to all of the people who originally called out Bluetooth headphones as a step backwards from where we were. I remember getting a lot of pushback from people who were all telling me that wireless headphones were going to get really cheap, and most of the growing pains were already over, and we were all just being ludites. But what am I supposed to think when I look at your high-tech future world, and the most popular comment is someone saying that they'll drop 550 dollars on a pair of headphones before they've even heard them, even though they'll only last 3-5 years before the battery dies -- just because it's worth that much money to have a device that reliably plays sound? How am I supposed to look at that and not come to the conclusion that the wireless market is still wildly inferior to the cheap, reliable, high-quality audio devices that came before? It's been however many years since Apple's removal of the headphone jack and practically every high-end Android manufacturer has since copied them. And what we see is headphones that are specifically designed to work with one brand of phone/computer, that are outrageously expensive, and apparently that expense is justified to some people because the entire rest of the market is filled with options that have minor-to-major irritations during daily use.

jbverschoor 6y ago

I bought the airpods when they came out. After 1.5 years of use, I get 5! minutes of talktime. Apple says "tough luck". No more headphones from Apple for me.

philwelch 6y ago
That’s 2 hours though.
- exfalso 6y ago
  bahaha
diebeforei485 6y ago
The original AirPods are really bad for speaking. Airpods 2 work much better.

kyriakos 6y ago

Bluetooth for audio is a solved problem. I recently bought 3 pairs of headphones, one pair no name Chinese, one pair of bose and oneplus buds. All 3 connect, switch devices (laptop, phone etc) seamlessly. I understand there may have been issues in the past but my experience the last year tells me otherwise.

jeanofthedead 6y ago

Spatial Audio does not work with AppleTV4K, I'm afraid. It only works with compatible iPhones and iPads. This does not replace speakers, subs, etc.

fbelzile 6y ago

> I'm happy to pay $500 for something that works Sure, if by "works" you mean "only works with other Apple products." The cost isn't just $500, it's also the opportunity cost of going with any other competing (and possibly better) product in the future. Apple's pricing is high, but is even higher if you account for the hidden hand of future buying power you give them. It's a brilliant business strategy as it limits your choice as a consumer for the lifetime of the headphones. Say Apple decides to slow down your old iPhone again (what? no! [1])... Or maybe you just like the new Google Pixel. Sucks to be you, time to buy a new iPhone again ($$$) if you don't want your headphones to stop "just working." [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724

_huayra_ 6y ago
It's always shocking how Apple folks adopt a reality distortion field when it comes to explaining their reasoning. Whether it's avoiding justifying the things they claim they get from Apple ("seamless device interop") or ignoring the way Apple actively treats their customers like hot garbage (see Louis Rossman's youtube channel, or the asinine arguments companies like Apple lead against right to repair and all the poor board layout and non-interchangeable parts), instead of saying a reasonable answer like "I'm willing to be ripped off because I like the shiny buttons" or "I have one specific app I use on MacOS that I haven't had the time to replicate elsewhere", it's always some kind of indignation. If someone tells me my bargan-tier Samsung phone is slower than molasses, I'm not gonna say "yeah but I like the blue color". I'm gonna agree.
- dragandj 6y ago
  Sometimes I'm even convinced that Apple is absolutely right in squeezing their captive users of every damn penny (or grand) they can squeeze. They should charge even more. (The customer is always right, especially the addicted one).
- idiot900 6y ago
  I'm a long time Apple customer and have not noticed I was being treated like hot garbage. Their products have performed as promised with little to no hassle. Can't say the same for their competitors (MS, Linux, Samsung, etc), whose products I've used extensively over the past 25 years. I am not a computing novice. Call it a reality distortion field if you want but I am happy.

leokennis 6y ago

I agree with the general "it's expensive but for that price it just works" statement. For example, with AirPods Pro, you get automatic switching between devices, easy pairing, true wireless earbuds, wireless charging, great ANC and all that in an incredibly tiny package. But with these AirPods Pro...do you see anything they do that others don't? They are not lighter. Their battery life isn't better. They're not objectively prettier. Their case looks worse. They don't charge wirelessly. There's not a lot of gain to be had in comfort as opposed to earbuds (competing headphones from Bose for example are plenty comfortable). So...from what we already know, they have one thing others don't and that's the "magical" pairing and switching. And they are $250 more expensive. This means either they sound incredibly fantastic, or they are way overpriced.

maerF0x0 6y ago
> I agree with the general "it's expensive but for that price it just works" statement. One thing a "disparity" (as in variety) of wealth creates is slices of populace where the value of the solution is worth vastly more. Tech that "just works" is one such place. People placing higher value on convenience ... Another such place that is interesting is healthcare. Some portion of the market places longevity or health optimizations way beyond the traditional insurance models. They're willing to spend far and beyond the marginal savings from prevention to avoid health issues. An example might be taking expensive NMN/NR to potentially avoid future health issues, despite costing 100s per month. eg: https://www.elysiumhealth.com/en-us/science-101/8-reasons-why-nad https://www.elysiumhealth.com/en-us/science-101/8-reasons-wh...

floatingatoll 6y ago

The previous top-end for Apple's headphones was the ~$350 Beats Studio Wireless 3, which I've had a pair of the past three years. I often forget I'm wearing them when I've put them on just for noise canceling (without any music) until I bonk them with something, and their Bluetooth has been fine in use with a variety of Apple and non-Apple devices. Their biggest defect in my use has been that their folding mechanism leaves a slight indent on one point on the earcup foam. They're fine, but my desktop headphones have better quality (as they should, given the 5-10x increase in investment in them). I expect that the $550 AirPods Max will be exceptional, and comparable in quality to my desktop headphones, which will be an achievement for anything portable and wireless. The flatpack case solves the non-portability of the Beats (which have a case the size of a watermelon), and they've removed the logo and reconstructed the earcups to not get tangled in long hair. That's the kind of improvements I expected from Apple, and they appear to have delivered, at a price point that's about what I would expect for something that delivers impeccable audio (and sets them up for $150/$350/$550 market segments). The Studio beats are great, but these will be better. My biggest fear is that they'll be better than my desktop headphones. Works for me.

nvarsj 6y ago

No, just no. I got so tired of my airpods not connecting randomly, automatically switching to other devices at random times, losing most of their charge after a year, and so on, that I literally just use a pair of wired airpods now and it works great. Oh, except that Apple decided iPads should have USB-C but not iPhones, so now I can't even use my lightning airpods on more than one device. This Apple worship is the ultimate banality of consumerism. The Airpod max is about the dumbest thing I've ever seen Apple produce. I personally think it will be a big flop, but I guess we'll see.

nvarsj 6y ago
I regret my response here as being overly dramatic. I think I got triggered by some of the obvious Apple worship going on. But my response isn't much better.

cosmodisk 6y ago

I've read your comment and most of it makes sense. Then I sat for a bit and all I got in my head was: ffs it's $500 for some headphones. To me, this is a poor man's luxury item. It reminds me when the latest and most expensive iPhone came out.Two people bought it: the CEO and the young woman who was on the lowest salary in the company. For one it was pocket change, for the other it was 2-3 weeks earnings.

nomy99 6y ago

the current airpod pro's don't "just work". On numerous occasions the right/left airpod gets unpaired. The charge level of each piece is independent, which is odd considering both are placed in/out of ear simultaneously. There are even issues with the UI on the iphone to show the charge level. I have to open/close between 2-3 times to be prompted with the screen. Having said that, as a whole, the airpods do "just work" more than other bluetooth headphones, especially with the case that holds a charge.

soupson 6y ago
This is my experience as well. I have to clean the contacts or pair/unpair to get them to work properly. I’m hoping the max are less finicky

yudlejoza 6y ago

Ladies and gentlemen, cue the not-an-apple-fanboy-but astroturf.

neya 6y ago

The Sony 1000XM3/4 series actually does all this and more already and has been for the last few years. Of all the noise cancellation headphones I've tried they're the best out there in the market and you can have them for less than $500. What am I missing here?

deleted 6y ago
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ketamine__ 6y ago

Apple Airpods don't connect to my MBP without a big delay. Maybe the firmware needs to be upgraded but I can't do it with my MBP and I don't own any other Apple products.

NicoJuicy 6y ago

I don't think comparing headphones to a 5.1 set is normal... Talking like other bluetooth headsets don't work is also not my experience. There is no way I'm paying the Apple premium for what is already a solved problem for my use-case.

shoulderfake 6y ago

clearly you dont feel the diff between 500 and 300. But I'll bet my left nut that these wont hold a candle to sennheiser or sony rival headphones

moltar 6y ago

I’ve had QC35s for 4 years now. No connectivity issues. Even connects to two devices at the same time.

httpsterio 6y ago

I guess you never have guests? Also a pair of headphones wont differ that much from a 2.1 system that'd I'd use that as an argument, it's all psychoacoustics mostly at that point. Also, when talking about speakers, what upgrades? You don't need yearly upgrades with speakers, unlike with Apple headphones. In the past ten years, I've spent about 400 dollars for a pair of Yamaha studio monitors fit for professional audio use, certainly for light audio entertainment as well. They'll still take any Apple headphones through the ringer in terms of quality.

swiley 6y ago

>I'm not dealing with connectivity issues, battery issues The $6 wired headset I bought from amazon for WFH and looks like something from the 90s works exactly like this.

SZJX 6y ago

On smartphones and tablets I can definitely agree with this sentiment. There's just nothing close to the reliability and comfort that iOS gives you (Used Nexus/Pixel for 5+ years and finally had enough and switched this year back to iPhone. God was my life so much easier). On earphones I'm not so sure. My Sony 1000XM2 works really well and I don't have advanced needs like switching devices constantly or sharing the audio with another person. Then again, maybe we just didn't know something is possible before somebody actually delivers it out there. The "spatial audio" thing I don't think would be a very good argument though. The promotion materials are extremely vague and I don't have much confidence that the noise cancelling/sound quality of this will be night and day compared to other established earphones. So I'm not caring too much about that aspect. As long as the sound quality is not worse than Sony/Bose/Sennheiser I'll be fine with it.

darkr 6y ago

> Compare this to even the least expensive stand alone 5.1 system and it's a very inexpensive alternative. I've had the same DTS/Dolby Digital 5.1 system for nearly 20 years. It still works flawlessly. I very much doubt that these headphones will be functional in 20 years time.

marakv2 6y ago

My current wireless headset costs $10. My wife bought it on sale, cheap Chinese crap, but I'd prefer to go through 10 pairs in the next year than shell out $500. That price point is crazy