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Completely unconfirmed speculation incoming: There's a solid chance that the logic board is exactly the same on all of the Macs announced today and the only di
by kevindong 6y ago
Completely unconfirmed speculation incoming:
There's a solid chance that the logic board is exactly the same on all of the Macs announced today and the only difference is the cooling solution. If you play around with the Apple Store configurator, the specs are all suspiciously similar between every new Mac.
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-mini https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-mini
- ogre_codes 6y agoThis makes sense. Most likely this is why the CPUs are all limited to 16GB. It's likely when they unwrap the 16 inch MacBook Pro, it will open up more configurations (more RAM in particular!) for the 13" MacBook Pro and hopefully the mini.
- zerkten 6y agoGoing into the event, my thinking was that they'd have two aims: 1. "Wow" the audience given the anticipation without a full overhaul of the range. 2. Deliver some solid products that enable the transition while being effective for non-enthusiasts. From my viewing they hit both. I expect they'll fill in the range next fall with bigger upgrades to the form factor.
- ogre_codes 6y agoI agree, It almost feels like they are going to have 3 main M Series CPUs. This one. One for the iMac and higher end MBPs. And perhaps a third for the high end iMac/ Mac Pro.
- hajile 6y agoRAM limits are pretty easy to explain. 16GB chips cost disproportionately more and use more power. I wonder if they use 2 4GB chips or 1 8GB chip in the low-end SKU?
- ogre_codes 6y agoIt's even easier to explain than that. The RAM is integrated into the CPU. While there are a few SKUs here, Apple only designed and built one CPU with 16GB RAM. The CPUs are binned. The CPUs where all RAM passed testing are sold as 16GB, the 8GB SKUs had a failure on one bank of RAM. There are no 32 or 64 GB models because Apple isn't making a CPU with 32 or 64GB of RAM yet.
- hajile 6y agoIt looked to me that they were placing 2 DDR4 modules beside the chip. https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16226/2020-11-10%2019_08_48.jpg https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16226/2020-11-10%2019_08_4...
- ogre_codes 6y agoWell maybe? Huh. I don't know now, certainly looks like it.
- ksec 6y agoActually that was what I notice in the video as well. Mac mini has huge amount of empty space. And the only difference was the cooling unit fitted on top.
- tinus_hn 6y agoThere used to be a DVD player and a hard drive in there, there has to be spare room. When comparing the mini to other SFF computers be sure to note that the mini has the power supply built in though where most of the others have it external.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ameen 6y agoI guess the cooling let’s them tweak the CPU clocks accordingly? Wonder if we can hack the Mac mini with water blocks and squeeze higher clocks. The memory limitation makes it a dud though.
- 293984j29384 6y ago8GB and 16GB configurations seem more than enough..
- bobbylarrybobby 6y agoFor pro users, the fact that 32GB isn’t even an option is pretty surprising
- saagarjha 6y agoI don't think today's computers were aimed at those kinds of usecases.
- runawaybottle 6y agoBut 16gb is what I had in a computer 10 years ago. I was just window shopping a new gaming rig, and 32gb is affordable (100 bucks), 64gb (200 bucks). Cheap as shit, what’s the hold up?
- saagarjha 6y agoA new processor architecture. Wait a couple months and you'll probably have the computer you wanted released too.
- sroussey 6y agoThe memory is on package, not way out somewhere on the logic board. This will increase speed quite a bit, but limit physical size of memory modules, and thus amount. I think they worked themselves into a corner here until the 16” which has a discreet GPU and reconfiguration of the package.
- amatecha 6y agoThe logic board probably isn't the same, but the SoC [probably] is identical, and with it a lot of the surrounding features/implementation. My own speculation as well of course :)
- izolate 6y agoThe wording in the event supports this. Particularly when speaking about the Mini's fan "unlocking" the potential of the M1 chip.
- zepto 6y agoI doubt the logic board is the same. It’s just that the M1 integrates so much.
- rewtraw 6y agoIf you compare the M1 Air and Pro, the only difference seems to be the addition of the Touchbar, 10% better battery life, and a "studio" speaker/mic on the Pro. https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/ https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/ I assume the addition of a fan on the Pro gives it better performance under load, but there doesn't seem to be a hugely compelling reason to not just get the Air.
- PolCPP 6y agoMy guess is different clock speeds, also base air has one gpu core less...
- dotBen 6y agoAnd this might be the old production trick where one part of the core fails QA and so they shut it out and make it a cheaper part. The GPU parts might be the tightest silicon and highest rate of failure so this approach reduces waste.
- slavoingilizov 6y agoBy "trick" you mean the only approach every chip-maker has been following for decades? Literally every single one. It's called binning.
- compiler-guy 6y agoThe gp is using “trick” not with the nefarious connotation, but more along the lines of “hack” or “clever idea”.
- grecy 6y agoI noticed the slides kept saying "Up to" 8 GPU cores. That left me wondering if there are different variants of the M1 with different core counts. (Note: It always said 8 CPU cores)
- kevindong 6y agoLooks like there's two variations of the Air: one with 7 GPU cores and one with 8 GPU cores. https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air
- _ph_ 6y agoAccording to the tech specs on the Apple site, the Air is available with 7 or 8 GPU cores. All other new Macs have 8.
- jagger27 6y agoThey did the exact same thing with the A12X and the A12Z. 7-core vs 8-core GPU is the only real difference between them.
- wincy 6y agoMy guess is maybe this is a yields thing for Apple Silicon? They use the same chips for Air and Pro, but shut off a faulty gpu core that didn't pass QA? Or a temperature thing.
- etempleton 6y agoAccording to Apple's website the Macbook Air appears to only have 7 active GPU cores. I suspect that chips in the Air may be binned separately and may or may not support the higher clock speeds even with the active cooling of the Mac Mini and Macbook Pro.
- duskwuff 6y ago7 on the base model, 8 on the upgrade. You're probably correct that this is a binning thing.
- dotBen 6y agoThe MBP now only has 2 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports which would support this theory.
- slayerjain 6y agoMaybe they'd launch a more expensive 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports model with their more powerful chip (and upto 64/128GB memory) like they did with the earlier MBP13s.
- alisonkisk 6y agoThat's the same as previous low-end MBP.
- dotBen 6y agothat's right but the 'regular' one had 4. I've already seen a pro user (in music production) complain about this. But my point here is that the fact they are both the same supports the theory that the logic board is the same on both models.
- skavi 6y agoThey’re continuing to sell the 4 port Intel 13” Pro.
- scep12 6y agoThis would make sense given the pricing, too. For example, the $1,249 air is very similar to the $1,299 pro. The MBA has a bigger SSD, but the MBP has a bigger battery, isn't throttled (i.e. has a fan), and also has the touchbar (which may be controversial, but for the sake of comparison, remember that it comes with a manufacturing cost). It seems reasonable that these are priced similarly. Of course, the machine I want is the MBP with the bigger SSD and no touchbar :)
- mseidl 6y agoThe max ram in all 3 is only 16gb :(
- nrp 6y agoAt Apple's volume and level of system integration, it doesn't make sense to do assembly sharing at that level between different models. Presumably the SoC package is the same between the different products, but binned differently for the Air, Pro, and Mini. The actual logic boards would be custom to the form factor.
- marta_morena_28 6y agoNot just that. At 5nm there will also be yield problems. I.e they will put the best yield into high end and the worst yield into low end.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- arnarbi 6y agoThat’s what “binned differently” means btw.
- dmix 6y agoWell then that was a good explanation because I didn’t know that!
- birdyrooster 6y agoInteresting that commenter knew the process but not the terminology.
- Insanity 6y agoReminds me of the Feynman story about knowing something vs knowing the name of something :-)
- cellularmitosis 6y agoGreat story :) https://v.cx/2010/04/feynman-brazil-education https://v.cx/2010/04/feynman-brazil-education
- weystrom 6y agoIf you look at the power supplies it's 30 vs 60 Watts, definitely interested to see what kind of TDP Apple targets with these machines.
- liminalsunset 6y agoThey've stated that they target 10W in the Air, the cooling system in the Pro is identical to the Intel so probably 28W ish, and the Mac Mini specs say maximum 150W continuous power, but that probably includes a few tens of watts of USB and peripherals.
- skavi 6y ago2 port Pros usually have 15 watt parts and only a single fan. Of course, PL2 goes far above 15W.
- davio 6y agoM1 chip page shows that 10 watts is the thermal envelope for the Air
- weystrom 6y agoSo I get the whole performance-per-watt spiel, but if they're targeting the same 10W as with Ice Lake Y-series[1], it's gonna be hot during continuous workloads like screen sharing, since they've seemingly decided to get rid of even the "chassis fan" they've had on 2019 Air. [1] https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196596/intel-core-i7-1060ng7-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-80-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196596/...
- Sholmesy 6y agoWorth noting that Intel doesn't actually honor those 10W listings, and often boosts above it for significant portions of usage.
- dwaite 6y agoThe two differences are cooling and that the base Air appears to receive binned processors with 7 GPU cores.
- mcot2 6y agoOne of the slides mentioned that the air is limited to 10watts though. I wonder if it does have the same soc but its nerfed beyond 10watts.