16 ms·

I now have an Oculus paperweight

567 points by elsewhen 6y ago

xupybd 6y ago
This is the problem with devices that rely on cloud servers to operate. They can cut you off as they see fit. They also leave the cutting of to an algorithm and don't care about the few edge cases where they ban the wrong people. Because that improves their bottom line.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bluescrn 6y ago
  Tying hardware to 'the cloud' is one thing. But tying it to social media accounts is far worse. You shouldn't be getting banned from VR gaming due (including offline single-player games) due to a completely unrelated drunken political rant on social media.
  - g00gler 6y ago
    > You shouldn't be getting banned from VR gaming due (including offline single-player games) due to a completely unrelated drunken political rant on social media. Have you stopped to consider that might very well be the goal? It’s like an abusive relationship. Act out, make our jobs hard & that stupid camera you call your parents on is toast! Act out & your VR headset is toast! Act out & I won’t let you talk to your family and friends on WhatsApp!
    - Joker_vD 6y ago
      Motivational exercises will continue until the problematic attitudes are amended.
ajay-b 6y ago
I have Occulus and thought of also doing this. I guess bad idea as Facebook probably accounts for this, hence closing said account.
lostcolony 6y ago
Yeah; I was contemplating getting a Quest 2 a while ago, since it hits a sweet spot of being a standalone headset, while also being able to be connected to the PC for greater fidelity (which will be important when my living arrangements change and I can get a tower PC)...but seeing reports like this was a showstopper. I'll wait until I have the tower and just buy an Index.
- p1necone 6y ago
  From what I understand there's a not insignificant (but also potentially low enough to not matter to many) amount of extra latency when using it to display content rendered on an external PC.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
    There are streaming solutions that work well enough via the Internet. The trick is that they basically render a skybox/sky-dome. If you turn (rotate) your head, that is computed locally, you just get shown a different part of the picture that's already on your device (if you turn too fast, you may get a black cut-off edge until the viewport is updated from the remote machine. If you move (translate), it needs to re-render for paralax etc. and that's when you notice it and potentially get VR-sick. So games where you have to move your head a lot are probably not a good match, but e.g. Fallout works great.
    - eru 6y ago
      If you augment your skybox with distance information, you can fake some of the parallax locally. Might be convincing enough for the split second needed?
ylee 6y ago
I don't have an Oculus but have heard good things about it for VR. But I can't get one because my Facebook account was similarly shut down without explanation last year. Despite its age (15 years) I barely used it, let alone for anything "controversial", but did regularly log into it. I repeatedly tried to verify my identity by submitting an image of my driver's license, without any response. I don't want to create a fake new Facebook account. I want my own back.
- captainmarble 6y ago
  I share similar situasion with you, only they did respond after few weeks with we're too busy to verify your request, please submit again later. Nice facebook.
  - anoncow 6y ago
    Have a similar problem but with my Facebook ad account. Didn't use it for sometime and when I went back to have a look at it, Facebook had disabled it and disabled my associated domain. I reached out to them to enable my account and they quoted the 180 day limit for appealing and said it would be better if I don't appeal further. The associated domain was disabled for not following community standards. Again I reached out to FB via the sharing debugger contact form and have received no response. The only thing I can see online is people crying about similar apathy and reaching out to a certain Karlin John who apparently is solving these issues. (I haven't reached out to this person, so could be a scam.) What I have learnt is in a world run by monopolies/oligopolies there is little room for mistakes and even if you don't commit a mistake your livelihood can be at the mercy of corporations.
    - colechristensen 6y ago
      It’s specifically low cost infinite scaling SaaS where the product is sold for so little or nothing that any amount of customer service wipes out the entire business plan.
      - 6y ago
dougmwne 6y ago
I know HN much desires to pile on the FB hate, but look. I read this subreddit daily and most people who have posted about a banned account have been able to get Oculus support to reinstate them after a few calls. These posts do not really come up that often for the number of people buying these things. There are other VR headset options if you don't like FB as a company and want a more open platform.
- annadane 6y ago
  The issue is people bought it under the assumption they wouldn't need an account, then they forced an account. It's hard to see it as anything but criminal behavior
  - em-bee 6y ago
    even if needing an account were acceptable, shutting down the account or preventing a device owner from using their device at all should be considered a warranty issue.
  - dougmwne 6y ago
    This is a half-truth. The Oculus 2 clearly states that it requires a FB account. It's printed in big words right on the box. Previous headsets will not require an account for awhile still. Though it is crappy they will eventually be required to have an account, the tech will be fairly obsolete by then anyway. Most modern consumer tech products do not exist separate from the company and are not "Buy it for life." There are other products from other companies for enthusiasts.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
      > Most modern consumer tech products do not exist separate from the company and are not "Buy it for life." Oh? What products would those be? Glancing around, I've got mice, trackballs, keyboards, laptops, desktops, assorted Android phones and tablets, routers, switches, bluetooth speakers and headphones, some lights, a Nintendo Switch, and a Chromecast. Of those, only the Chromecast would be affected if the manufacturer disappeared tomorrow. The desktop is from 2011, and the laptops span ~5-10 years old, not one running the original OS (and many with hardware upgrades). The phones did require bootloader unlocking (kudos to Motorola for making this painless) and aftermarket ROMs to stay up to date, but even without that they'd work without needing any company help. Likewise I'll concede that some routers/switches are a pain (I was grumpy at the hoops I had to jump through to switch my Edgerouter to OpenWRT) but it's fine and again even the default options didn't require an online account or any service from the manufacturer. I don't think this is a foregone conclusion at all.
hokumguru 6y ago
I purchased an Oculus Quest 2 yesterday actually from Best Buy. As an original Vive owner I'm astounded at how far VR has gotten for the price. Getting past the forced FB integration, the Quest is one of the best VR experiences I've had. The inside out tracking is nothing short of magical and using Virtual Desktop to stream PCVR wirelessly works so much better than I was anticipating. I'm not a FB hater, and I think the social integrations could actually be very useful in the future - especially in a post covid world.
- bclemens 6y ago
  > Getting past the forced FB integration There is no "getting past the forced FB integration", which is what makes it a paperweight to the author.
  - DoktorDelta 6y ago
    There's supposedly a jailbreak method for it that removes the FB login requirement, but it doesn't seem to be public yet.
    - mcv 6y ago
      Facebook should enthusiastically publish that jailbreak themselves. Without it, their product is useless to a lot of people.
- orev 6y ago
  Useful or not, it should not be required in order for you to use a very expensive price of equipment that you already paid for.
- chaostheory 6y ago
  I’m also a fellow Vive Pro owner. What amazes me the most beyond the price is the convenience of a Quest. I just turn it on and play vs 1. Turning on the PC 2. Turning on my HTC base stations 3. Setting up wire control ie on the ceiling 4. Turning on the VR set Sadly, the forced Facebook login sucks for a lot of people. I also don’t see any consumer benefit from it. A complaint I’m seeing is that everyone has to manually re-friend their Facebook friends for Oculus.
perryizgr8 6y ago
Amazing how Facebook is killing the most capable VR hardware on the market. After reading things like this, who would want to gamble on an Oculus headset?
- m463 6y ago
  Obviously they don't think they're doing that. In fact they might be "firing the customers" who might not be monetizable anyhow. People buy sony and microsoft game consoles every day with the same sort of onerous shenanigans.
  - pochamago 6y ago
    I think Facebook's are objectively more onerous here. Creating another account violates their ToS. You can't buy physical copies of games for their headset. You can't play any of the games you purchased, even in an offline mode, if your account is deleted. You must tie your account to your real identity. It just all seems excessive
    - ddingus 6y ago
      I think so too. And I dislike FB, which has biased me away from VR. My natural inclinations trend toward AR too. To be perfectly fair, it being excessive may be warranted somehow. VR is super immersive. And trends toward a disconnect with reality. Now both are the point of it all, and I am not saying that's bad. I am saying it can be. Maybe a high degree of personally identifiable use is warranted somehow. Just thinking out loud. What I do know is I don't need any of it and am happy for things to play out some.
    - jmiskovic 6y ago
      The one-account-only rule is horible treatment of users. What's wrong with having multiple online persona's? Using them avoids the conflicting roles of being a career professional, a parent and also politically active. With multiple account the FB could still mine your data and show personalized ads. Still they insist on single account backed with real ID. This shows some deeply ingrained totalitarian ambitions. Luckily I still have my Oculus account so I can still enjoy Quest 1 without FB BS.
banana_giraffe 6y ago
I've mentioned here before I got rid of my Facebook account for my mental health. Silly reason or not, it's done, and I have no desire to go back. I also really like my Oculus. It's helped me escape a bit, and gotten me moving around more. It's a fantastic little device. I'm not looking forward to the day it becomes a paper weight. The only positive in all of this is I've started upgrading my PC to get it to the point where it can play VR games, and deciding which VR rig I want to go with. It won't be as great as the Oculus, even if the tech is better, since I love the untethered nature of the Oculus, but a cable-tether is worlds better than a Facebook-tether, at least to me.
- evo_9 6y ago
  The Vive/VivePro support full wireless via the wireless adapter: https://www.vive.com/us/accessory/wireless-adapter/ https://www.vive.com/us/accessory/wireless-adapter/
  - eps 6y ago
    I have the original (wired) Vive and I upgraded it with a wireless adapter not a month ago. It was trivial to do, the software worked on the first try and it was overall a very nice experience. It also improved the gameplay dramatically.
  - nico_h 6y ago
    yeah, facebook is the only thing preventing me from buying an occulus. I have a VR ready pc, but there is no alternative to the quest / quest 2 in that price range. the vive / valve’s headset all cost in the 1k and adding 349 to that is not appealing to get a heavier setup.
    - g00gler 6y ago
      I have an oculus quest purchased over the summer. I was able to sign up for oculus, not Facebook. I got emails about a change in account stuff & I was able to keep my oculus account and not sign up for Facebook. Can new customers only sign in through Facebook???? Seems like a very bad idea...
centimeter 6y ago
I strongly recommend the Index - it is much more pleasant to use, much more technically impressive, and doesn't require you to deal with artificially introduced bullshit like this!
- int_19h 6y ago
  Any recommendation that can truly replace Quest has to offer the same experience, namely: standalone, no wires, and no complicated setup.
  - samanthaj2 6y ago
    Disagree, to me that's like saying PS5 has to match an iPhone 12. No, I'd say it's the other way around. Quest has a mobile GPU so it can't deliver the top VR experiences. That it's easier to use, no wires the same way an iPhone is easier than a PS5 might be true but I can't play PS5 AAA games on an iPhone and I can't play VR AAA games on a Quest
    - Kiro 6y ago
      So you're essentially agreeing. They are two different product categories. > Any recommendation that can truly replace Quest has to offer the same experience > Disagree, to me that's like saying PS5 has to match an iPhone 12 You can't replace your iPhone with a PS5. Similar to how the Quest experience can't be replaced by the Index, and vice versa.
  - SSLy 6y ago
    Samsung Galaxy S8/S9 (ideally the snapdragon ones) + Gear VR.
    - PetitPrince 6y ago
      Gear VR does not enable a 6-DOF headset. And it's still somewhat linked to Oculus / Facebook.
- Cpoll 6y ago
justinclift 6y ago
From one of the Reddit comments, there's apparently a Discord organising a class action lawsuit about it: https://discord.com/invite/th2YPtwt https://discord.com/invite/th2YPtwt
- ThrustVectoring 6y ago
  Likely barred due to binding arbitration clauses. The upside of such is that Facebook has to pay the arbitration filing fees, so you can get a full refund for the device out of it (it's cheaper than paying for arbitration).
  - gentleman11 6y ago
    I don’t think click through tos are legal. It’s just convention to pretend they are real. The real world equivalent is a 15 page sign in a store that says “by entering this store you consent to our staff living on your couch”
    - eru 6y ago
      Some of them might be real enough. From what I've heard, one big reason for the arbitration clauses is just so that the CEO won't get dragged off to small claims court all the time. (Otherwise, you just need to convince a sympathetic judge that the CEO or some other senior official is important to the case, and they'd need to show up or risk contempt of court. Not very likely for any individual case, but the chances add up with bigger numbers of claims.)
  - anang 6y ago
    This can be as devastating class action law suit. If enough people start exercising their right to arbitration it can get VERY costly for Facebook. I can’t find the story now, but there was a case in I think California of a company suing to get out of an arbitration clause, wanting instead to move to a class action lawsuit. Thousands of arbitrations became time consuming and costly. So I think there is still big potential for a coordinated effort to make this difficult for Facebook, even if a class action suite were off the table.
MengerSponge 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
- TheDesolate0 6y ago
  So very much this.
CameronNemo 6y ago
Hilariously as I tried to read more comments on the reddit post, I was prompted to make an account and log in.
- Semaphor 6y ago
  Here is the real reddit link instead of the abomination that is new reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/jqh1bg/i_now_have_an_oculus_paperweight/ https://old.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/jqh1bg/i_now_have_a...
  - HiroshiSan 6y ago
    sadly, even old reddit is not old enough =/.
    - matttb 6y ago
      What I've found that works for this is getting a permalink (either through the option menu or via the comment timestamp). The direct comment link will show (some amount of) children, though if it goes too deep you'll have to repeat the process..
    - Semaphor 6y ago
      Hm, weird. I checked with FF private mode and on mobile (where I’m not logged in) and in both cases I could load more comments without nagging. Maybe uBlock Origin blocks the nag screen.
- taneq 6y ago
  Reddit (the company) is slowly turning more and more evil. It's a pity because (sections of) the community are still worthwhile.
renewiltord 6y ago
I like pre-recording hypotheses when these things happen. In this case, my top hypothesis is that the user picked a name that is common for online game communities (maybe something like xxHardcoreGamerGod420xx and extending to including slurs perhaps) which falls afoul of Facebook's Real Name Policy, causing them to shut off the account. Interesting consequence of Facebook using a device account and is a social network identity.
- aaron695 6y ago
  > I like pre-recording hypotheses when these things happen I wish this was compulsory before posting. So people actual have to think first. With the important bonus they will improve their critical thought and confidence.
  - unishark 6y ago
    It's the same old problem with getting only one side of the story. Omit a key detail or twist the facts in a slight arguable way and it can totally change things. Having said that, I don't know that the above hypotheses are enough to matter. There's a difference between "de-platforming" people and destroying their property. Perhaps if the redditer is omitting the fact that there's a solution but they just don't like it (e.g. using their "real" account instead of this fake one that got suspended or something).
- hrktb 6y ago
  It's an endless game. A funny list of the different reported cases: https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/j22lmx/im_out_of_the_loop_on_why_everyone_hates_quest_2/g72trdn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/j22lmx/im_out_...
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    Haha, incredible! What a list! I have a Quest and a Quest 2. Hope I don't end up one of those statistics!
TheDesolate0 6y ago
I mean, don't give your money to fascists.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tehwebguy 6y ago
I wonder if anyone preemptively made a bunch of non-fb connected oculus accounts to sell on eBay.
unnouinceput 6y ago
How hard would be to "simulate" a facebook account on your own? So that any crap like this get forwarded to your own personal "cloud" and be done with all the shenanigans. Preemptive nitpicking "this is piracy" - no it isn't, it falls under "right to repair". Fight me!
- freeqaz 6y ago
  You might have to fight the certificate signing on the device. If there is a way to get your own cert onto the Oculus, then this should be possible!
dschuetz 6y ago
Facebook is exactly the reason why I didn't buy an Oculus. My mistrust has been justified.
ilaksh 6y ago
With Ethereum 2.0 coming out, I wonder if one of the new XR2 devices coming out over the next few years might be able to support that. Because cryptocurrency payments is one of the things that can make platforms public and non-proprietary.
berryworm 6y ago
Are the Quests really bricked if the Facebook account is shut down? Can you not do a factory reset and start over with a new account?
- taneq 6y ago
  I imagine it would suck rather a lot to lose your game library every time Facebook's auto-ban trips on your otherwise unused account.
  - berryworm 6y ago
    I'm not saying it is fun, but if you can reset the device it is not "bricked".
    - LarvaFX 6y ago
      If you cannot use it anymore because you don't have access to your FB account and your games, what is it good for. It is the same as bricked.
    - jannes 6y ago
      Maybe we need a new terminology for “like a brick for me, possibly functional for others“
- strombofulous 6y ago
  Facebook is honestly pretty good at detecting second accounts and won't let you make a new one if you already have a banned one You'll also lose a lot of online progress and any purchases
  - berryworm 6y ago
    OK then sell it to somebody else. "Bricked" in my opinion means the device can never be made to function again. If you can reset it, it is not bricked.
encom 6y ago
How sad is it, that the top comment in that thread, suggests signing up for a different social media account, to complain about the first.
thdrdt 6y ago
I don't like Facebook but I don't think I would have a problem with creating a Facebook account for the device only (with an email address only for this device). But what seems to be the main issue here is that it must be an active Facebook account. I don't think any judge could call that a fair policy.
- MrDresden 6y ago
  Due to Facebooks track record of leaving users out in the cold with no way to appeal, I would never get an Oculus at this point. That, and the fact their whole product lineup is effectively spyware.
- csunbird 6y ago
  Usually, they instaban new users for suspicious activity if it is a brand new email and you dont put any information, and ask you for mobile number or ID Card. Don't try to do that.
- mastax 6y ago
  Creating multiple accounts per person is itself a bannable offense.
pugworthy 6y ago
I've spent a lot of time in the past being a moderator on a larger game system's forums - one that has a ban system. I've seen enough "I wasn't cheating and I got banned!" posts to be really doubtful of people claiming they got banned "for no reason at all" That said, you should be able to do whatever you want OUTSIDE of your game or game environment, which is the main issue for me.
- Dahoon 6y ago
  Not being active on Facebook is A Good Reason for Facebook.
desertraven 6y ago
I’m not knowledgeable with proprietary hardware, or VR for that matter. How exactly does Facebook lock these headsets down? And how would one go about “jailbreaking” one?
- washadjeffmad 6y ago
  They simply deny services to new customers. You buy the headset, you can't use it until you register and sign in with FaceBook. If you have an existing Oculus account, however, it is still valid for use until January 2023. I've filed an FTC complaint, because we built an AR/VR research lab and invested heavily in Oculus, and it's not going to be usable in two years because our organizational policies prohibit registering Facebook accounts on behalf of the organization. If this had been a requirement prior to our buy-in to Oculus, we would have chosen a different platform. Jailbreaks are in the works to bypass the Facebook requirement but aren't yet public. This will likely lead to permanent account bans, since like with Wii, the ability to sideload largely is used to run apps customers did not purchase from their store.
  - bryan_w 6y ago
    They have enterprise oculus accounts that you should look into
mcv 6y ago
From that discussion, it seems Facebook is deeply contradicting itself. On the one hand, it requires people to have a Facebook account to use the Oculus Quest 2, on the other hand, it considers inactive Facebook accounts to be fake and bans them. So everybody who buys a Quest has to create a Facebook account, which subsequently gets banned for inactivity. To be able to use a Quest, you actually need to be active on Facebook. Basically only buy a Quest if you really like Facebook.
- cosmie 6y ago
  I'm not active at all on Facebook itself - checking now, my last post was >18 months ago, and and other interactions (likes, comments, etc) even longer. But I leverage Messenger for a few contacts that prefer it, and that Messenger use seems to be sufficient to ward off the inactivity trigger. I'm surprised they don't just treat the Oculus usage similarly, and count that usage as "activity" in the context of considering an account active/inactive.
  - csomar 6y ago
    Old accounts seems to be immune to this, and will not get banned even if you push the boundaries of spamming. Creating a new account, however, has become almost impossible.
    - beagle3 6y ago
      ... which statistically makes sense, given their "real name" policy, as they have completely saturated the existing user base.
    - cosmie 6y ago
      Oh, that's good to know! My account is well seasoned from years past, even if it slowed to a trickle a few years ago before eventually going into full zombie mode ~18 months ago.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      Which seems shitty since I bet a lot of people just create a new account for their Oculus just to keep it separate. Does Facebook have a one account per person policy? Honestly we need laws in many countries that say: if a provider bans your account, you need to be able to download all your data for 30 days and you need a 100% refund of all purchases. Period.
kossTKR 6y ago
For anyone interested the cutting edge in VR is the new HP Reverb G2, it's a significant leap in tech and is interestingly quite a bit cheaper than previous flagship models from HTC or Valve. It's getting very good reviews and is releasing this month. Also it's made in partnership with Valve so should get all their RnD benefits. I also dropped Oculus immediately after seeing the FB integration, and now have a HP on the way.
- justinclift 6y ago
  Trying to figure out if that works with Steam on Linux. As it was developed "in Collaboration" with MS, for their "Windows Mixed Reality" thing... guessing No?
  - duncanawoods 6y ago
    Yeah, it's a no. It will use windows mixed reality to bridge to Steam.
    - justinclift 6y ago
      Thanks. :)
  - zrobotics 6y ago
    From HP's store: "Looking for access across any and all VR content? With compatibility across both SteamVR and Windows Mixed Reality, seamless access to everything VR is now within reach. All with quick and painless setup." Which makes sense, they also partnered with Valve on this headset as well. It's fluffy marketing-droid speak, but from the sounds of it the headset should work with Steam. https://www.connection.com/product/hp-reverb-g2-virtual-reality-headset/1g5u1aa-aba/41024161?cm_mmc=HP-_-Reverb-G2-_-VR-Headset-_-Pre-Order https://www.connection.com/product/hp-reverb-g2-virtual-real...
    - justinclift 6y ago
      Yeah, thus my confusion. On that web page: * It says "OS Required: Microsoft Windows 10" and "Operating system: Windows 10 May 2019 update or later". * It's common for non-IT-clueful consumer marketers to only consider Windows, completely ignoring everything else (even macOS) * They don't mention Linux at all So without explicit mention of Linux, I'm more assuming "No".
mothsonasloth 6y ago
Year: 2035 Scene: Driving my Apple iCar I send an emotionally charged tweet about Vegetarian militants fighting in the Mongolia China war.* Car - "I'm sorry your Apple account has been deactivated for thought crimes against the Tencent-Alibaba republic of China. Disabling braking and steering features on your Apple iCar." Car - "Seatbelts decoupled" The car crashes into an automated Tesla Truck full of zero gravity fidget spinners on shipment to Amazon fulfillment centre, just in time for christmas.
- FeepingCreature 6y ago
  > The car crashes into an automated Tesla Truck full of zero gravity fidget spinners on shipment to Amazon fulfillment centre, just in time for christmas. A week later, an unrelated Tesla has an unfortunate camera glitch and takes off the side mirror of an Apple executive's car. Two weeks later, the Road Wars begin.
- unicornporn 6y ago
  Black Mirror season 6, is that you?
  - marcosdumay 6y ago
    Looks a lot like the I Robot movie.
- netsharc 6y ago
  Killing the driver sounds too drastic. The tweet would probably lower your social score, which in turn is in violation of the Apple EULA ("Our exclusive products may only be used by persons with high social score"), stopping the car and blaring the alarm "Please disembark.". And since you're in the middle of the highway in rain, you don't get out. "Your license to use this car has been terminated. You are now trespassing. The authorities have been alerted.". And then the police show up and shoot you because their data mining software says it's mostly black people that have such low social score, so the iGlasses the cops have say you are black.
  - 6y ago
joshcollie 6y ago
I'm saddened to see others in exactly the same camp as myself having also written about this the other week (https://joshcollie.com/articles/zucked/ https://joshcollie.com/articles/zucked/). Fortunatetly I have an Oculus Rift S and can maintain usage with my Oculus account. As far as I'm aware it will still be in a usable state come 2023, albeit with no social features. As much as the Oculus hardware is fairly good I would highly recommend seeking alternative providers of VR hardware.
dessant 6y ago
I have also created a Facebook account to use their NLP service, Wit.ai. The Facebook account has received an automated block, and they've kept it blocked after a manual review which has asked for a photo of my face. Now they have a photo of my face, my legal name and date of birth, my verified email address and phone number, and I cannot exercise any control over this data, only download it, which is obviously illegal under GDPR. Facebook engineers from Wit.ai are ignoring my request for help and the app APIs remain operational, I just can't log into the dashboard. If you're a developer who considers using Wit.ai, be careful. You could receive an automated block from Facebook and an overworked contractor will rubber-stamp the bot's decision, while Wit.ai staff will ignore you. https://github.com/wit-ai/wit/issues/1946 https://github.com/wit-ai/wit/issues/1946
- echelon 6y ago
  Get 100 of your friends in the EU to do the same and Facebook will face huge GDPR fines.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    .. eventually. You've got to go through your country's Information Commissioner.
    - part1of2 6y ago
      Seems like a simple enough landing page though. Discord server for tracking when people got blocked and you reach the 100-person count (is that an actual EU court requirement?)
      - pjc50 6y ago
        There's no direct access to an EU court for most things; in almost all cases you first have to go through national courts. In addition to that, most of the GDPR laws don't actually create a direct right of action. In many cases only the ICO is allowed to take action. And they may not bother. Which is why the UK's Open Rights Group is taking the ICO to court to get them to enforce GDPR: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/privacy-organisation-open-rights-group-taking-the-privacy-regulator-ico-to-court-in-a-landmark-case/ https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/privacy-organ... (I don't know where this 100 person number comes from?)
eznzt 6y ago
Can't you just create another Facebook account?
- Dahoon 6y ago
  Sure but it will likely be banned too if not active and you also won't have access to your old games.
fsloth 6y ago
The described situation reflects an abysmal service quality. A counterexample: I had my Overwatch account stolen by a third party. While the financial cost was neglible I still issued a note to Blizzard's helpdesk - expecting nothing to happen. They answered in LESS THAN 24 hours and reverted everything bad that had happened. That's good service. Since Facebook links Oculus to their services they absolutely should be prepared to offer similar quality service for account problems.
Guthur 6y ago
At this stage it absolutely boggles my mind that anyone remotely tech savvy would have anything to do with Facebook. Just don't engage with their products, they are a thoroughly toxic company, boycott and encourage everyone you know to as well. The sooner FB's market shrinks the better off we will all be.
- tiborsaas 6y ago
  Facebook's network effect is way stronger than you appear to believe. It's a massive incentive to stay on their platform. All my friends are on it and they use it actively. And yes, a significant percentage of them are tech savvy.
  - Guthur 6y ago
    So you can't have relationships without FB? I find that hard to believe, we were managing it fine without FB. There is no need to be "connected" with people on demand 24/7.
    - tiborsaas 6y ago
      It's nothing like that. It's the convenience that the platform provides that nobody seems to want to give up. FB definitely makes it much more easier to catch up with my peers compared to email/phone. > There is no need to be "connected" with people on demand 24/7. It's the the other way around. I'm not after the 24/7 connectedness, but rather for the on-demand information polling about some of my friend's status/life events. This includes messenger and instagram.
Wintamute 6y ago
Seems like the solution here is for Facebook to consider Quest activity (playing games, active session on the device etc.) as legit Facebook activity. Surely this is a glitch, probably happening in small numbers, that'll get sorted soon enough? Why on Earth would they want to ban active users of their VR headset? Every active VR user, even if they don't use the Facebook site, is surely a precious asset. If Facebook continues to move into VR and AR, then surely many of its future users may only be interacting with its services exclusively in those mediums.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Yeah, I think "there's an Oculus attached to this account" should be a massive green flag towards that account being legit. There aren't many spam/influence campaigns that'll make sense at $400/account.
  - RonanTheGrey 6y ago
    There might be a chicken-and-egg problem here -- if someone creates an account to use their headset, Facebook's problem is that it locks the accounts before you can ever attach your headset. Allow attaching a headset to unlock the account? Or just don't require connecting to FB at all to use it, I mean... shrug.
aiyodev 6y ago
Meanwhile Facebook refuses to do anything about accounts promoting genocide in countries like Myanmar.
ubermonkey 6y ago
FB owning Oculus is the reason I'll never buy an Oculus.
raxxorrax 6y ago
I have two. A rift S and a quest 1. I don't care about the money but many people probably do. I hope Facebook gets flak for this and I think they will. They might have buried a complete market segment for VR. That said, they always preferred the more naive users. I certainly won't create an account and for me this gen of VR failed like the last ones. It is an experience, but not that good to warrant this customer hostile behavior.
WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
We were shopping for a VR headset last week. We absolutely would have bought an Oculus, except the risk of having it tied to Facebook kept putting us off. It wouldn't just be risky to purchase an Oculus; that risk would continue the entire time we'd own it. Having that kind of worry built into a product makes it less fun. In the end we bought an HTC Vive. We've been quite happy with it.
jerkstate 6y ago
Banned due to community standards? Sounds like he posted fake news or some other thought crime. This is the future we asked for.
- ss248 6y ago
  Good that you've managed to read the first sentence. But it would have been better if you've also read the second one where he explicitly said "I created the account just for my Oculus Quest 2 and don't post anything on it".
  - jerkstate 6y ago
    Am I supposed to take the word of someone whose Facebook account was banned for violating community standards at face value?
    - RonanTheGrey 6y ago
      Guilty until proven innocent with absolutely zero data. You're doing well, keep going.
nocturnial 6y ago
There a lawsuit in Germany which challenges the legality of tying a facebook account to the oculus. It's against the coupling laws[1]. I have a hard time imagining facebook winning that lawsuit especially because they threatened in a separate unrelated lawsuit by the Irish privacy watchdog "to pull out of Europe"[2] If you combine this with the blocking of accounts for infractions unrelated to the use of the oculus, I can't see how this will go well in court for facebook. [1] https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/facebook-halts-oculus-quest-sales-in-germany-amid-privacy-concerns/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/facebook-halts-oculus... [2] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/09/facebook-warns-data-protection-rules-could-force-european-shutdown/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/09/facebook-warns-d...

567 points by elsewhen 6y ago

This is the problem with devices that rely on cloud servers to operate. They can cut you off as they see fit. They also leave the cutting of to an algorithm and don't care about the few edge cases where they ban the wrong people. Because that improves their bottom line.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bluescrn 6y ago
Tying hardware to 'the cloud' is one thing. But tying it to social media accounts is far worse. You shouldn't be getting banned from VR gaming due (including offline single-player games) due to a completely unrelated drunken political rant on social media.
- g00gler 6y ago
  > You shouldn't be getting banned from VR gaming due (including offline single-player games) due to a completely unrelated drunken political rant on social media. Have you stopped to consider that might very well be the goal? It’s like an abusive relationship. Act out, make our jobs hard & that stupid camera you call your parents on is toast! Act out & your VR headset is toast! Act out & I won’t let you talk to your family and friends on WhatsApp!
  - Joker_vD 6y ago
    Motivational exercises will continue until the problematic attitudes are amended.

ajay-b 6y ago

I have Occulus and thought of also doing this. I guess bad idea as Facebook probably accounts for this, hence closing said account.

lostcolony 6y ago

Yeah; I was contemplating getting a Quest 2 a while ago, since it hits a sweet spot of being a standalone headset, while also being able to be connected to the PC for greater fidelity (which will be important when my living arrangements change and I can get a tower PC)...but seeing reports like this was a showstopper. I'll wait until I have the tower and just buy an Index.

p1necone 6y ago
From what I understand there's a not insignificant (but also potentially low enough to not matter to many) amount of extra latency when using it to display content rendered on an external PC.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
  There are streaming solutions that work well enough via the Internet. The trick is that they basically render a skybox/sky-dome. If you turn (rotate) your head, that is computed locally, you just get shown a different part of the picture that's already on your device (if you turn too fast, you may get a black cut-off edge until the viewport is updated from the remote machine. If you move (translate), it needs to re-render for paralax etc. and that's when you notice it and potentially get VR-sick. So games where you have to move your head a lot are probably not a good match, but e.g. Fallout works great.
  - eru 6y ago
    If you augment your skybox with distance information, you can fake some of the parallax locally. Might be convincing enough for the split second needed?

ylee 6y ago

I don't have an Oculus but have heard good things about it for VR. But I can't get one because my Facebook account was similarly shut down without explanation last year. Despite its age (15 years) I barely used it, let alone for anything "controversial", but did regularly log into it. I repeatedly tried to verify my identity by submitting an image of my driver's license, without any response. I don't want to create a fake new Facebook account. I want my own back.

captainmarble 6y ago
I share similar situasion with you, only they did respond after few weeks with we're too busy to verify your request, please submit again later. Nice facebook.
- anoncow 6y ago
  Have a similar problem but with my Facebook ad account. Didn't use it for sometime and when I went back to have a look at it, Facebook had disabled it and disabled my associated domain. I reached out to them to enable my account and they quoted the 180 day limit for appealing and said it would be better if I don't appeal further. The associated domain was disabled for not following community standards. Again I reached out to FB via the sharing debugger contact form and have received no response. The only thing I can see online is people crying about similar apathy and reaching out to a certain Karlin John who apparently is solving these issues. (I haven't reached out to this person, so could be a scam.) What I have learnt is in a world run by monopolies/oligopolies there is little room for mistakes and even if you don't commit a mistake your livelihood can be at the mercy of corporations.
  - colechristensen 6y ago
    It’s specifically low cost infinite scaling SaaS where the product is sold for so little or nothing that any amount of customer service wipes out the entire business plan.
    - 6y ago

dougmwne 6y ago

I know HN much desires to pile on the FB hate, but look. I read this subreddit daily and most people who have posted about a banned account have been able to get Oculus support to reinstate them after a few calls. These posts do not really come up that often for the number of people buying these things. There are other VR headset options if you don't like FB as a company and want a more open platform.

annadane 6y ago
The issue is people bought it under the assumption they wouldn't need an account, then they forced an account. It's hard to see it as anything but criminal behavior
- em-bee 6y ago
  even if needing an account were acceptable, shutting down the account or preventing a device owner from using their device at all should be considered a warranty issue.
- dougmwne 6y ago
  This is a half-truth. The Oculus 2 clearly states that it requires a FB account. It's printed in big words right on the box. Previous headsets will not require an account for awhile still. Though it is crappy they will eventually be required to have an account, the tech will be fairly obsolete by then anyway. Most modern consumer tech products do not exist separate from the company and are not "Buy it for life." There are other products from other companies for enthusiasts.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    > Most modern consumer tech products do not exist separate from the company and are not "Buy it for life." Oh? What products would those be? Glancing around, I've got mice, trackballs, keyboards, laptops, desktops, assorted Android phones and tablets, routers, switches, bluetooth speakers and headphones, some lights, a Nintendo Switch, and a Chromecast. Of those, only the Chromecast would be affected if the manufacturer disappeared tomorrow. The desktop is from 2011, and the laptops span ~5-10 years old, not one running the original OS (and many with hardware upgrades). The phones did require bootloader unlocking (kudos to Motorola for making this painless) and aftermarket ROMs to stay up to date, but even without that they'd work without needing any company help. Likewise I'll concede that some routers/switches are a pain (I was grumpy at the hoops I had to jump through to switch my Edgerouter to OpenWRT) but it's fine and again even the default options didn't require an online account or any service from the manufacturer. I don't think this is a foregone conclusion at all.

hokumguru 6y ago

I purchased an Oculus Quest 2 yesterday actually from Best Buy. As an original Vive owner I'm astounded at how far VR has gotten for the price. Getting past the forced FB integration, the Quest is one of the best VR experiences I've had. The inside out tracking is nothing short of magical and using Virtual Desktop to stream PCVR wirelessly works so much better than I was anticipating. I'm not a FB hater, and I think the social integrations could actually be very useful in the future - especially in a post covid world.

bclemens 6y ago
> Getting past the forced FB integration There is no "getting past the forced FB integration", which is what makes it a paperweight to the author.
- DoktorDelta 6y ago
  There's supposedly a jailbreak method for it that removes the FB login requirement, but it doesn't seem to be public yet.
  - mcv 6y ago
    Facebook should enthusiastically publish that jailbreak themselves. Without it, their product is useless to a lot of people.
orev 6y ago
Useful or not, it should not be required in order for you to use a very expensive price of equipment that you already paid for.
chaostheory 6y ago
I’m also a fellow Vive Pro owner. What amazes me the most beyond the price is the convenience of a Quest. I just turn it on and play vs 1. Turning on the PC 2. Turning on my HTC base stations 3. Setting up wire control ie on the ceiling 4. Turning on the VR set Sadly, the forced Facebook login sucks for a lot of people. I also don’t see any consumer benefit from it. A complaint I’m seeing is that everyone has to manually re-friend their Facebook friends for Oculus.

perryizgr8 6y ago

Amazing how Facebook is killing the most capable VR hardware on the market. After reading things like this, who would want to gamble on an Oculus headset?

m463 6y ago
Obviously they don't think they're doing that. In fact they might be "firing the customers" who might not be monetizable anyhow. People buy sony and microsoft game consoles every day with the same sort of onerous shenanigans.
- pochamago 6y ago
  I think Facebook's are objectively more onerous here. Creating another account violates their ToS. You can't buy physical copies of games for their headset. You can't play any of the games you purchased, even in an offline mode, if your account is deleted. You must tie your account to your real identity. It just all seems excessive
  - ddingus 6y ago
    I think so too. And I dislike FB, which has biased me away from VR. My natural inclinations trend toward AR too. To be perfectly fair, it being excessive may be warranted somehow. VR is super immersive. And trends toward a disconnect with reality. Now both are the point of it all, and I am not saying that's bad. I am saying it can be. Maybe a high degree of personally identifiable use is warranted somehow. Just thinking out loud. What I do know is I don't need any of it and am happy for things to play out some.
  - jmiskovic 6y ago
    The one-account-only rule is horible treatment of users. What's wrong with having multiple online persona's? Using them avoids the conflicting roles of being a career professional, a parent and also politically active. With multiple account the FB could still mine your data and show personalized ads. Still they insist on single account backed with real ID. This shows some deeply ingrained totalitarian ambitions. Luckily I still have my Oculus account so I can still enjoy Quest 1 without FB BS.

banana_giraffe 6y ago

I've mentioned here before I got rid of my Facebook account for my mental health. Silly reason or not, it's done, and I have no desire to go back. I also really like my Oculus. It's helped me escape a bit, and gotten me moving around more. It's a fantastic little device. I'm not looking forward to the day it becomes a paper weight. The only positive in all of this is I've started upgrading my PC to get it to the point where it can play VR games, and deciding which VR rig I want to go with. It won't be as great as the Oculus, even if the tech is better, since I love the untethered nature of the Oculus, but a cable-tether is worlds better than a Facebook-tether, at least to me.

evo_9 6y ago
The Vive/VivePro support full wireless via the wireless adapter: https://www.vive.com/us/accessory/wireless-adapter/ https://www.vive.com/us/accessory/wireless-adapter/
- eps 6y ago
  I have the original (wired) Vive and I upgraded it with a wireless adapter not a month ago. It was trivial to do, the software worked on the first try and it was overall a very nice experience. It also improved the gameplay dramatically.
- nico_h 6y ago
  yeah, facebook is the only thing preventing me from buying an occulus. I have a VR ready pc, but there is no alternative to the quest / quest 2 in that price range. the vive / valve’s headset all cost in the 1k and adding 349 to that is not appealing to get a heavier setup.
  - g00gler 6y ago
    I have an oculus quest purchased over the summer. I was able to sign up for oculus, not Facebook. I got emails about a change in account stuff & I was able to keep my oculus account and not sign up for Facebook. Can new customers only sign in through Facebook???? Seems like a very bad idea...

centimeter 6y ago

I strongly recommend the Index - it is much more pleasant to use, much more technically impressive, and doesn't require you to deal with artificially introduced bullshit like this!

int_19h 6y ago
Any recommendation that can truly replace Quest has to offer the same experience, namely: standalone, no wires, and no complicated setup.
- samanthaj2 6y ago
  Disagree, to me that's like saying PS5 has to match an iPhone 12. No, I'd say it's the other way around. Quest has a mobile GPU so it can't deliver the top VR experiences. That it's easier to use, no wires the same way an iPhone is easier than a PS5 might be true but I can't play PS5 AAA games on an iPhone and I can't play VR AAA games on a Quest
  - Kiro 6y ago
    So you're essentially agreeing. They are two different product categories. > Any recommendation that can truly replace Quest has to offer the same experience > Disagree, to me that's like saying PS5 has to match an iPhone 12 You can't replace your iPhone with a PS5. Similar to how the Quest experience can't be replaced by the Index, and vice versa.
- SSLy 6y ago
  Samsung Galaxy S8/S9 (ideally the snapdragon ones) + Gear VR.
  - PetitPrince 6y ago
    Gear VR does not enable a 6-DOF headset. And it's still somewhat linked to Oculus / Facebook.
Cpoll 6y ago

justinclift 6y ago

From one of the Reddit comments, there's apparently a Discord organising a class action lawsuit about it: https://discord.com/invite/th2YPtwt https://discord.com/invite/th2YPtwt

ThrustVectoring 6y ago
Likely barred due to binding arbitration clauses. The upside of such is that Facebook has to pay the arbitration filing fees, so you can get a full refund for the device out of it (it's cheaper than paying for arbitration).
- gentleman11 6y ago
  I don’t think click through tos are legal. It’s just convention to pretend they are real. The real world equivalent is a 15 page sign in a store that says “by entering this store you consent to our staff living on your couch”
  - eru 6y ago
    Some of them might be real enough. From what I've heard, one big reason for the arbitration clauses is just so that the CEO won't get dragged off to small claims court all the time. (Otherwise, you just need to convince a sympathetic judge that the CEO or some other senior official is important to the case, and they'd need to show up or risk contempt of court. Not very likely for any individual case, but the chances add up with bigger numbers of claims.)
- anang 6y ago
  This can be as devastating class action law suit. If enough people start exercising their right to arbitration it can get VERY costly for Facebook. I can’t find the story now, but there was a case in I think California of a company suing to get out of an arbitration clause, wanting instead to move to a class action lawsuit. Thousands of arbitrations became time consuming and costly. So I think there is still big potential for a coordinated effort to make this difficult for Facebook, even if a class action suite were off the table.

MengerSponge 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog

TheDesolate0 6y ago
So very much this.

CameronNemo 6y ago

Hilariously as I tried to read more comments on the reddit post, I was prompted to make an account and log in.

Semaphor 6y ago
Here is the real reddit link instead of the abomination that is new reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/jqh1bg/i_now_have_an_oculus_paperweight/ https://old.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/jqh1bg/i_now_have_a...
- HiroshiSan 6y ago
  sadly, even old reddit is not old enough =/.
  - matttb 6y ago
    What I've found that works for this is getting a permalink (either through the option menu or via the comment timestamp). The direct comment link will show (some amount of) children, though if it goes too deep you'll have to repeat the process..
  - Semaphor 6y ago
    Hm, weird. I checked with FF private mode and on mobile (where I’m not logged in) and in both cases I could load more comments without nagging. Maybe uBlock Origin blocks the nag screen.
taneq 6y ago
Reddit (the company) is slowly turning more and more evil. It's a pity because (sections of) the community are still worthwhile.

renewiltord 6y ago

I like pre-recording hypotheses when these things happen. In this case, my top hypothesis is that the user picked a name that is common for online game communities (maybe something like xxHardcoreGamerGod420xx and extending to including slurs perhaps) which falls afoul of Facebook's Real Name Policy, causing them to shut off the account. Interesting consequence of Facebook using a device account and is a social network identity.

aaron695 6y ago
> I like pre-recording hypotheses when these things happen I wish this was compulsory before posting. So people actual have to think first. With the important bonus they will improve their critical thought and confidence.
- unishark 6y ago
  It's the same old problem with getting only one side of the story. Omit a key detail or twist the facts in a slight arguable way and it can totally change things. Having said that, I don't know that the above hypotheses are enough to matter. There's a difference between "de-platforming" people and destroying their property. Perhaps if the redditer is omitting the fact that there's a solution but they just don't like it (e.g. using their "real" account instead of this fake one that got suspended or something).
hrktb 6y ago
It's an endless game. A funny list of the different reported cases: https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/j22lmx/im_out_of_the_loop_on_why_everyone_hates_quest_2/g72trdn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/j22lmx/im_out_...
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Haha, incredible! What a list! I have a Quest and a Quest 2. Hope I don't end up one of those statistics!

TheDesolate0 6y ago

I mean, don't give your money to fascists.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

tehwebguy 6y ago

I wonder if anyone preemptively made a bunch of non-fb connected oculus accounts to sell on eBay.

unnouinceput 6y ago

How hard would be to "simulate" a facebook account on your own? So that any crap like this get forwarded to your own personal "cloud" and be done with all the shenanigans. Preemptive nitpicking "this is piracy" - no it isn't, it falls under "right to repair". Fight me!

freeqaz 6y ago
You might have to fight the certificate signing on the device. If there is a way to get your own cert onto the Oculus, then this should be possible!

dschuetz 6y ago

Facebook is exactly the reason why I didn't buy an Oculus. My mistrust has been justified.

ilaksh 6y ago

With Ethereum 2.0 coming out, I wonder if one of the new XR2 devices coming out over the next few years might be able to support that. Because cryptocurrency payments is one of the things that can make platforms public and non-proprietary.

berryworm 6y ago

Are the Quests really bricked if the Facebook account is shut down? Can you not do a factory reset and start over with a new account?

taneq 6y ago
I imagine it would suck rather a lot to lose your game library every time Facebook's auto-ban trips on your otherwise unused account.
- berryworm 6y ago
  I'm not saying it is fun, but if you can reset the device it is not "bricked".
  - LarvaFX 6y ago
    If you cannot use it anymore because you don't have access to your FB account and your games, what is it good for. It is the same as bricked.
  - jannes 6y ago
    Maybe we need a new terminology for “like a brick for me, possibly functional for others“
strombofulous 6y ago
Facebook is honestly pretty good at detecting second accounts and won't let you make a new one if you already have a banned one You'll also lose a lot of online progress and any purchases
- berryworm 6y ago
  OK then sell it to somebody else. "Bricked" in my opinion means the device can never be made to function again. If you can reset it, it is not bricked.

encom 6y ago

How sad is it, that the top comment in that thread, suggests signing up for a different social media account, to complain about the first.

thdrdt 6y ago

I don't like Facebook but I don't think I would have a problem with creating a Facebook account for the device only (with an email address only for this device). But what seems to be the main issue here is that it must be an active Facebook account. I don't think any judge could call that a fair policy.

MrDresden 6y ago
Due to Facebooks track record of leaving users out in the cold with no way to appeal, I would never get an Oculus at this point. That, and the fact their whole product lineup is effectively spyware.
csunbird 6y ago
Usually, they instaban new users for suspicious activity if it is a brand new email and you dont put any information, and ask you for mobile number or ID Card. Don't try to do that.
mastax 6y ago
Creating multiple accounts per person is itself a bannable offense.

pugworthy 6y ago

I've spent a lot of time in the past being a moderator on a larger game system's forums - one that has a ban system. I've seen enough "I wasn't cheating and I got banned!" posts to be really doubtful of people claiming they got banned "for no reason at all" That said, you should be able to do whatever you want OUTSIDE of your game or game environment, which is the main issue for me.

Dahoon 6y ago
Not being active on Facebook is A Good Reason for Facebook.

desertraven 6y ago

I’m not knowledgeable with proprietary hardware, or VR for that matter. How exactly does Facebook lock these headsets down? And how would one go about “jailbreaking” one?

washadjeffmad 6y ago
They simply deny services to new customers. You buy the headset, you can't use it until you register and sign in with FaceBook. If you have an existing Oculus account, however, it is still valid for use until January 2023. I've filed an FTC complaint, because we built an AR/VR research lab and invested heavily in Oculus, and it's not going to be usable in two years because our organizational policies prohibit registering Facebook accounts on behalf of the organization. If this had been a requirement prior to our buy-in to Oculus, we would have chosen a different platform. Jailbreaks are in the works to bypass the Facebook requirement but aren't yet public. This will likely lead to permanent account bans, since like with Wii, the ability to sideload largely is used to run apps customers did not purchase from their store.
- bryan_w 6y ago
  They have enterprise oculus accounts that you should look into

mcv 6y ago

From that discussion, it seems Facebook is deeply contradicting itself. On the one hand, it requires people to have a Facebook account to use the Oculus Quest 2, on the other hand, it considers inactive Facebook accounts to be fake and bans them. So everybody who buys a Quest has to create a Facebook account, which subsequently gets banned for inactivity. To be able to use a Quest, you actually need to be active on Facebook. Basically only buy a Quest if you really like Facebook.

cosmie 6y ago
I'm not active at all on Facebook itself - checking now, my last post was >18 months ago, and and other interactions (likes, comments, etc) even longer. But I leverage Messenger for a few contacts that prefer it, and that Messenger use seems to be sufficient to ward off the inactivity trigger. I'm surprised they don't just treat the Oculus usage similarly, and count that usage as "activity" in the context of considering an account active/inactive.
- csomar 6y ago
  Old accounts seems to be immune to this, and will not get banned even if you push the boundaries of spamming. Creating a new account, however, has become almost impossible.
  - beagle3 6y ago
    ... which statistically makes sense, given their "real name" policy, as they have completely saturated the existing user base.
  - cosmie 6y ago
    Oh, that's good to know! My account is well seasoned from years past, even if it slowed to a trickle a few years ago before eventually going into full zombie mode ~18 months ago.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    Which seems shitty since I bet a lot of people just create a new account for their Oculus just to keep it separate. Does Facebook have a one account per person policy? Honestly we need laws in many countries that say: if a provider bans your account, you need to be able to download all your data for 30 days and you need a 100% refund of all purchases. Period.

kossTKR 6y ago

For anyone interested the cutting edge in VR is the new HP Reverb G2, it's a significant leap in tech and is interestingly quite a bit cheaper than previous flagship models from HTC or Valve. It's getting very good reviews and is releasing this month. Also it's made in partnership with Valve so should get all their RnD benefits. I also dropped Oculus immediately after seeing the FB integration, and now have a HP on the way.

justinclift 6y ago
Trying to figure out if that works with Steam on Linux. As it was developed "in Collaboration" with MS, for their "Windows Mixed Reality" thing... guessing No?
- duncanawoods 6y ago
  Yeah, it's a no. It will use windows mixed reality to bridge to Steam.
  - justinclift 6y ago
    Thanks. :)
- zrobotics 6y ago
  From HP's store: "Looking for access across any and all VR content? With compatibility across both SteamVR and Windows Mixed Reality, seamless access to everything VR is now within reach. All with quick and painless setup." Which makes sense, they also partnered with Valve on this headset as well. It's fluffy marketing-droid speak, but from the sounds of it the headset should work with Steam. https://www.connection.com/product/hp-reverb-g2-virtual-reality-headset/1g5u1aa-aba/41024161?cm_mmc=HP-_-Reverb-G2-_-VR-Headset-_-Pre-Order https://www.connection.com/product/hp-reverb-g2-virtual-real...
  - justinclift 6y ago
    Yeah, thus my confusion. On that web page: * It says "OS Required: Microsoft Windows 10" and "Operating system: Windows 10 May 2019 update or later". * It's common for non-IT-clueful consumer marketers to only consider Windows, completely ignoring everything else (even macOS) * They don't mention Linux at all So without explicit mention of Linux, I'm more assuming "No".

mothsonasloth 6y ago

Year: 2035 Scene: Driving my Apple iCar I send an emotionally charged tweet about Vegetarian militants fighting in the Mongolia China war.* Car - "I'm sorry your Apple account has been deactivated for thought crimes against the Tencent-Alibaba republic of China. Disabling braking and steering features on your Apple iCar." Car - "Seatbelts decoupled" The car crashes into an automated Tesla Truck full of zero gravity fidget spinners on shipment to Amazon fulfillment centre, just in time for christmas.

FeepingCreature 6y ago
> The car crashes into an automated Tesla Truck full of zero gravity fidget spinners on shipment to Amazon fulfillment centre, just in time for christmas. A week later, an unrelated Tesla has an unfortunate camera glitch and takes off the side mirror of an Apple executive's car. Two weeks later, the Road Wars begin.
unicornporn 6y ago
Black Mirror season 6, is that you?
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  Looks a lot like the I Robot movie.
netsharc 6y ago
Killing the driver sounds too drastic. The tweet would probably lower your social score, which in turn is in violation of the Apple EULA ("Our exclusive products may only be used by persons with high social score"), stopping the car and blaring the alarm "Please disembark.". And since you're in the middle of the highway in rain, you don't get out. "Your license to use this car has been terminated. You are now trespassing. The authorities have been alerted.". And then the police show up and shoot you because their data mining software says it's mostly black people that have such low social score, so the iGlasses the cops have say you are black.
- 6y ago

joshcollie 6y ago

I'm saddened to see others in exactly the same camp as myself having also written about this the other week (https://joshcollie.com/articles/zucked/ https://joshcollie.com/articles/zucked/). Fortunatetly I have an Oculus Rift S and can maintain usage with my Oculus account. As far as I'm aware it will still be in a usable state come 2023, albeit with no social features. As much as the Oculus hardware is fairly good I would highly recommend seeking alternative providers of VR hardware.

dessant 6y ago

I have also created a Facebook account to use their NLP service, Wit.ai. The Facebook account has received an automated block, and they've kept it blocked after a manual review which has asked for a photo of my face. Now they have a photo of my face, my legal name and date of birth, my verified email address and phone number, and I cannot exercise any control over this data, only download it, which is obviously illegal under GDPR. Facebook engineers from Wit.ai are ignoring my request for help and the app APIs remain operational, I just can't log into the dashboard. If you're a developer who considers using Wit.ai, be careful. You could receive an automated block from Facebook and an overworked contractor will rubber-stamp the bot's decision, while Wit.ai staff will ignore you. https://github.com/wit-ai/wit/issues/1946 https://github.com/wit-ai/wit/issues/1946

echelon 6y ago
Get 100 of your friends in the EU to do the same and Facebook will face huge GDPR fines.
- pjc50 6y ago
  .. eventually. You've got to go through your country's Information Commissioner.
  - part1of2 6y ago
    Seems like a simple enough landing page though. Discord server for tracking when people got blocked and you reach the 100-person count (is that an actual EU court requirement?)
    - pjc50 6y ago
      There's no direct access to an EU court for most things; in almost all cases you first have to go through national courts. In addition to that, most of the GDPR laws don't actually create a direct right of action. In many cases only the ICO is allowed to take action. And they may not bother. Which is why the UK's Open Rights Group is taking the ICO to court to get them to enforce GDPR: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/privacy-organisation-open-rights-group-taking-the-privacy-regulator-ico-to-court-in-a-landmark-case/ https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/privacy-organ... (I don't know where this 100 person number comes from?)

eznzt 6y ago

Can't you just create another Facebook account?

Dahoon 6y ago
Sure but it will likely be banned too if not active and you also won't have access to your old games.

fsloth 6y ago

The described situation reflects an abysmal service quality. A counterexample: I had my Overwatch account stolen by a third party. While the financial cost was neglible I still issued a note to Blizzard's helpdesk - expecting nothing to happen. They answered in LESS THAN 24 hours and reverted everything bad that had happened. That's good service. Since Facebook links Oculus to their services they absolutely should be prepared to offer similar quality service for account problems.

Guthur 6y ago

At this stage it absolutely boggles my mind that anyone remotely tech savvy would have anything to do with Facebook. Just don't engage with their products, they are a thoroughly toxic company, boycott and encourage everyone you know to as well. The sooner FB's market shrinks the better off we will all be.

tiborsaas 6y ago
Facebook's network effect is way stronger than you appear to believe. It's a massive incentive to stay on their platform. All my friends are on it and they use it actively. And yes, a significant percentage of them are tech savvy.
- Guthur 6y ago
  So you can't have relationships without FB? I find that hard to believe, we were managing it fine without FB. There is no need to be "connected" with people on demand 24/7.
  - tiborsaas 6y ago
    It's nothing like that. It's the convenience that the platform provides that nobody seems to want to give up. FB definitely makes it much more easier to catch up with my peers compared to email/phone. > There is no need to be "connected" with people on demand 24/7. It's the the other way around. I'm not after the 24/7 connectedness, but rather for the on-demand information polling about some of my friend's status/life events. This includes messenger and instagram.

Wintamute 6y ago

Seems like the solution here is for Facebook to consider Quest activity (playing games, active session on the device etc.) as legit Facebook activity. Surely this is a glitch, probably happening in small numbers, that'll get sorted soon enough? Why on Earth would they want to ban active users of their VR headset? Every active VR user, even if they don't use the Facebook site, is surely a precious asset. If Facebook continues to move into VR and AR, then surely many of its future users may only be interacting with its services exclusively in those mediums.

ceejayoz 6y ago
Yeah, I think "there's an Oculus attached to this account" should be a massive green flag towards that account being legit. There aren't many spam/influence campaigns that'll make sense at $400/account.
- RonanTheGrey 6y ago
  There might be a chicken-and-egg problem here -- if someone creates an account to use their headset, Facebook's problem is that it locks the accounts before you can ever attach your headset. Allow attaching a headset to unlock the account? Or just don't require connecting to FB at all to use it, I mean... shrug.

aiyodev 6y ago

Meanwhile Facebook refuses to do anything about accounts promoting genocide in countries like Myanmar.

ubermonkey 6y ago

FB owning Oculus is the reason I'll never buy an Oculus.

raxxorrax 6y ago

I have two. A rift S and a quest 1. I don't care about the money but many people probably do. I hope Facebook gets flak for this and I think they will. They might have buried a complete market segment for VR. That said, they always preferred the more naive users. I certainly won't create an account and for me this gen of VR failed like the last ones. It is an experience, but not that good to warrant this customer hostile behavior.

WarOnPrivacy 6y ago

We were shopping for a VR headset last week. We absolutely would have bought an Oculus, except the risk of having it tied to Facebook kept putting us off. It wouldn't just be risky to purchase an Oculus; that risk would continue the entire time we'd own it. Having that kind of worry built into a product makes it less fun. In the end we bought an HTC Vive. We've been quite happy with it.

jerkstate 6y ago

Banned due to community standards? Sounds like he posted fake news or some other thought crime. This is the future we asked for.

ss248 6y ago
Good that you've managed to read the first sentence. But it would have been better if you've also read the second one where he explicitly said "I created the account just for my Oculus Quest 2 and don't post anything on it".
- jerkstate 6y ago
  Am I supposed to take the word of someone whose Facebook account was banned for violating community standards at face value?
  - RonanTheGrey 6y ago
    Guilty until proven innocent with absolutely zero data. You're doing well, keep going.

nocturnial 6y ago

There a lawsuit in Germany which challenges the legality of tying a facebook account to the oculus. It's against the coupling laws[1]. I have a hard time imagining facebook winning that lawsuit especially because they threatened in a separate unrelated lawsuit by the Irish privacy watchdog "to pull out of Europe"[2] If you combine this with the blocking of accounts for infractions unrelated to the use of the oculus, I can't see how this will go well in court for facebook. [1] https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/facebook-halts-oculus-quest-sales-in-germany-amid-privacy-concerns/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/facebook-halts-oculus... [2] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/09/facebook-warns-data-protection-rules-could-force-european-shutdown/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/09/facebook-warns-d...