24 ms·

Amazon turned off customer’s Kindle account, blocking her from her books (2012)

319 points by Foe 6y ago

javajosh 6y ago
Indeed, and this is why I still buy paper books, DVDs and CDs (and vinyl, when the mood strikes). Heck, I suspect that in the not-too-distant future, old software licenses and media will be valuable, perhaps extremely so if open-source tools are effectively blocked on the major platforms.
- Moru 6y ago
  I borrow everything at the local library. If they don't have it, I ask if they can get it. Mostly I just give them the ISBN number and a few days later I get a mail that they reserved it for me, come and pick it up. Almost faster than ordering it myself on the net :-)
  - aksss 6y ago
    In ebook form (e.g. Libby) or physical?
    - Moru 6y ago
      Physical
- anuila 6y ago
  > if open-source tools are effectively blocked on the major platforms. Come on, how can you have such a grim outlook? Nobody will “effectively block” open source tools. Consoles can afford to. Phones are being challenged. Everyone else won’t.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    Windows on ARM only allows you to install Microsoft Store apps. Everyone claims ARM is the future but all I see is a proprietary prison.
    - anuila 6y ago
      The moment a platform becomes for “general purpose computing” they will be forced to open up. Especially Windows won’t be allowed to be a closed platform given its dominance. Even then, there will always be Linux.
- touristtam 6y ago
  I don't see the interest in buying DVDs. Books and Music are two medium one is likely to revisit. Movies/Drama on the other hand? Once it is viewed, are they really that many people that will try to view it again? Do they get the same thrill as for a very good story/music piece?
  - jbay808 6y ago
    When I find a movie I really like, I tend to want to either rewatch it with different people who haven't seen it, or lend it to those people.
  - SifJar 6y ago
    This is very subjective, I have rewatched far more DVDs than I have reread books; seems to me that rewatching a good story in movie form isn't much different to rereading a good story in book form? (Typically with less time commitment & effort/imagination required)
  - imtringued 6y ago
    I agree. Revisiting old content is the rule, not the exception. If there is stuff you really want to watch again you are very likely to pay for it again. There is a game that I played on PS2 that has been ported to NDS and then PC and I bought all versions even though it was the same game every time.
- jjav 6y ago
  Same for me. I will only buy a paper copy of a book, which cannot be removed from my account when it is on my bookshelf. Same for CDs and DVDs. Amazon seems to offer an instant download of mp3s after buying a CD, so often I never even open the CD after receiving it. But having it means I will own it forever. Anything that is not available in a format I can own in perpetuity, I will not buy. Voting with your wallet is the only way to pressure these companies.
- yreg 6y ago
  My 2013 1Password license ($19.99) proved to be a valuable investment. Unfortunately I'll have to migrate to their subscription sooner or later, I already don't have access to their Safari extension.
  - pantulis 6y ago
    Last time I checked they also had their regular license available in the website buried somewhere.
  - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
    You may want to give a try to Bitwarden (https://bitwarden.com/ https://bitwarden.com/) I was a long (15years?) paying user of Lastpass, saw the company grow and discussed with the founders when they were just starting. Then the software grew old (and some M&A were dubious) Switching to Bitwarden was a great choice (since about a year) (I have no affiliation with Bitwarden, I just work in Information Security and look closely at this kind of software and their tradeoffs)
    - MayeulC 6y ago
      Thanks for mentioning it, it looks pretty nice. However, as that's something I would self-host, the pricing options do not make sense to me. I'd be willing to pay a one-time fee of $10, maybe $40 for the family variant (though 6 users feels really arbitrary when you self-host). Not $40 per year for little added value (the thing I'd be interested in is 2FA via OTP/U2F, and maybe that shared item thing). Anyway, I think I'll look at something else for now, I can't really afford that :)
      - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
        I do self host Bitwarden. There are two possibilities: - the official docker solution which is extremely complicated - https://github.com/dani-garcia/bitwarden_rs https://github.com/dani-garcia/bitwarden_rs which is extremely simple and just works. It includes everything for 0 EUR. I still sent money to both projects because I think they did a nice work. I find Bitwarden better than LP in handling Android (seems to be better at recognizing places it can fill in) and it is very complete in terms of what the product itself offers. I considered moving mu OTP (currently on Authy) there, up to the moment where I realized I need OTP for Bitwarden itself :) Otherwise I have no complaints. The sharing part is excellent (much better than LP) - the only thing to be aware of is that once you "share" with a group, the elements is not "yours" anymore. It becomes truly shared within the group. Specifically you cannot "take it back". While it was a bit disconcerting at first, I find it very logical in the long term. And use it extensively with my family.
- deepstack 6y ago
  Or just buy EPUB or PDF of the book that just sits on the hard drive.
donor20 6y ago
Is this true? I've loaded Kindle books directly from computer to kindle. Not that anyone does this, I suspect most folks want amazon to host the book for them forever and provide them access. But I do think if you actually download the book, you can basically load it onto a kindle baring very weird situations.
- Moru 6y ago
  She had it downloaded to her kindle but the kindle was broken. She could not access her account on any device or web so had no access to her library.
- romwell 6y ago
  The books you buy on Amazon have Amazon DRM. Unless you strip the DRM, you don't own the books.
Moru 6y ago
This is true not just for Kindle books. It's also your games library on Steam and all other similar stores. GOG.com is probably the only online game store where you realy own the stuff you "buy".
- romwell 6y ago
  Yes, but with Kindle at least you can strip the DRM of your eBooks. There's a Calibre plugin[1] that does it. If you really care about ebooks that you purchase, I highly recommend installing this plugin. It automatically strips DRM off books you download and open with Calibre. And keep a back-up of the (DRM-free) books somewhere that's not Amazon / a cloud. Because a cloud is simply a computer that you do not own. [1]http://www.geoffstratton.com/remove-drm-amazon-kindle-books http://www.geoffstratton.com/remove-drm-amazon-kindle-books
  - hyperman1 6y ago
    Note how this is in most jurisdictions illegal. You are now pirating, except you paid for it.
    - gambiting 6y ago
      If by "most jurisdictions" you mean pretty much just US, then sure.
    - kranner 6y ago
      Is it really illegal? At least in the US cracking DRM for personal backup is not infringing AFAIK. https://gizmodo.com/its-perfectly-legal-to-tell-people-how-to-remove-drm-1670223538 https://gizmodo.com/its-perfectly-legal-to-tell-people-how-t...
      - giancarlostoro 6y ago
        This is what makes ROMs for games for game consoles fully legal assuming you ripped them from physical copies. Not sure how anyone would prove you didnt generate the copy yourself.
ece 6y ago
dedrm (and get a pdf) isn't too hard to setup with calibre. https://github.com/apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools/releases https://github.com/apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools/releases All books will likely be fingerprinted, which I believe is a far more effective method of controlling piracy.
wilt 6y ago
This is why I try to get drm free ebooks when possible or at least breakable drm. I like paying for it so the author gets paid but i don't want some 3rd party being able to revoke my access.
- input_sh 6y ago
  Kindle's DRM is breakable for at least half a decade now using this calibre plugin: https://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/ https://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/ I find it more convenient to break it than DRM-protected ePub files sold elsewhere (Barnes and Noble, Kobo, etc.).
  - izacus 6y ago
    Except that the new Kindle DRM is very hard to remove and this plugin won't work anymore - it's a constant arms race where us customers are always the losers.
    - imgabe 6y ago
      It's possible, if a little annoying. In your account settings, Amazon offers the ability to download an e-book to transfer via USB. This gets you a version that you can import into Calibre and process with DeDRM.
- Qwertious 6y ago
  "I like paying for it so the author gets paid " I've been thinking about this: If this is the only reason you use an ebook-store (like the Kindle store), this would be fairly easy to create a 100% competitor for - after all, there's no law against creating a site for giving money to your favourite authors! ...and then you could create a plugin/API for embedding a "pay for book" button onto other sites - like pirate book sites, and the ONLY weapon Amazon would have against it would be the legal weapon against the pirate sites! Also you'd probably want the give-authors-money site to be run by a trustworthy nonprofit.
  - zem 6y ago
imgabe 6y ago
This is why I use Calibre to strip the DRM and create backup copies of everything I buy on Kindle. I don't mind paying for content. I do mind if it can be rescinded and made inaccessible after I've paid for it.
- romwell 6y ago
  Obligatory instructions link: http://www.geoffstratton.com/remove-drm-amazon-kindle-books http://www.geoffstratton.com/remove-drm-amazon-kindle-books
josh_fyi 6y ago
Please tag this as 2012. It would be interesting to see a summary of this issue since then -- has Amazon made this into a regular problem for their customers?
- AnssiH 6y ago
  I already was thinking "huh, so maybe the Norwegian case a decade ago was not an outlier", but nope, this is again that same case that was widely reported at the time and seems to continue to resurface at times. Amazon claims in the article that one should not lose their access to their book library even if their account is blocked.
- Qwertious 6y ago
  I've seen this problem on /r/bestof on reddit - submitting 2011 comments and such, when everyone implicitly assumes comments submitted are present comments. IMO any sort of news/event post that's not recent (say, in the last month or so, or at least within a year of the posting date) should be required to add a "[2012]" (or whatever year it was posted) to the end of the title.
  - lucideer 6y ago
    The Guardian has an interesting article on their approach to this[0] but I'm not sure what the best solution to this globally is. You can't rely on publishers entirely, and yet posters & commenting platforms often have difficulty identifying the dates on posts from certain publications (especially small blogs). [0] https://www.theguardian.com/help/insideguardian/2019/apr/02/why-were-making-the-age-of-our-journalism-clearer https://www.theguardian.com/help/insideguardian/2019/apr/02/...
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    This is already the rule on HN, the submitter must have forgotten (it happens!). A mod will likely change the title.
    - everybodyknows 6y ago
underdeserver 6y ago
Honestly? I'm okay with this business model. I know it's not a popular opinion here - but as there's no reasonable way to prevent people from unrestrictedly distributing copies, the business model of licensing books sounds reasonable to me. What's not reasonable is the lack of transparency when you're suspected of abuse. I understand that there are many bad actors, but these companies are judge, jury and executioner when it comes to handling what they think are abuse cases - and honest people who get caught in the crossfire have no recourse. Regulation needs to be put in place saying that if you paid a company any significant sum for services, you have the right to contest any claims of abuse and must be provided with all reasoning they have on that abuse within 24 hours. And you have a right to take them to court without needing to show damages when they're being unreasonable.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  I'd also be fine with the T&C's saying "For any reason, we can terminate the services we provide to you, and we will refund any money's paid with interest". That way, the company can decide to keep the evidence to themselves and not need to go to court, but must forgo all revenue from your account.
  - evgen 6y ago
    If you break the rules of the contract what makes you think you get your money back? If you want a refund you should be required to prove that the company was the one that violated the agreement.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Prove to whom? The arbitration judge?
    - buran77 6y ago
      The problem in countries with expensive litigation is that it raises the bar for what a person would be willing to fight for. If I'll end up spending $10000 whether I win or lose I'll think twice before I litigate for a few hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of ebooks. It also incentivizes companies to do it for as long as they know they'll get away with it. You're pitting a company with billions to spend on this stuff and all the incentive to keep doing it against a regular consumer with none of the resources or determination. This is where regulation comes in and it should always favor the consumer by default. It's why countries have consumer protection agencies but no company protection agencies.
ageofwant 6y ago
This is why I steal everything I want using http://libgen.rs/ http://libgen.rs/ and so should you. If I find value in what I have stolen I will try and buy a DRM free copy of the work if it's available. I have 22k books in my curated calibre library, of those I have read a small fraction of 1% and I have paid for far fewer. This more or less matches the existing public library pattern. Authors cannot complain about 'lost income' as I simply would not consume their content anyway if I could not acquire it this way.
malka 6y ago
Message is very clear. If you want to own something, pirate it.
- ManlyBread 6y ago
  My sentiments exactly, I see no reason to support a model where I pay for something and it turns out that I'm not even an owner because there's a mention of it somewhere deep in the 500 page EULA. Which totally mirrors the experience of going to the bookstore, picking a book paying for it and... that's it, you can do whatever you want with it. I'm sure someone will point out that I agreed to these terms but the last time I checked a "store" doesn't lend things, it sells them, so it's easy to claim I have been misled.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    I don't think we should have to sign Eula, if i can buy a book without one, why cant I buy a game in the same manner? You are, equally, not allowed to duplicate and resell either of those.
neiman 6y ago
We don't purchase products anymore, at least not digital things. Instead we're always buying a service. Buying includes a very short period of trust between you and the seller, where you give them money, and they give you the product in return. Sometimes there's also a long trust involved due to warranty, but more often than not those failed me in the past, so I stopped taking them into account when making a purchase. But a service is a long term relationship between a customer and a service provider, and those ALWAYS failed me, if they existed for long enough. Amazon does not sell books to Kindle, but instead provides a service of renting Kindle books. The cause of confusion here is them using a wrong term to describe what they do.
- toyg 6y ago
  Unfortunately, it will take legislation to forbid them from stating or suggesting that you are actually purchasing digital goods. We should get a law that forbids any SaaS or media-rental company from ever using "purchase" in their advertising and operation. It could be the Interned Digital Goods Advertisement Fraud Act, or IDGAF act - as in "I don't give a f__k what you say; if I can't keep them forever and copy them around, those ain't 'goods' I'm buying, it's a rental service".
- kybernetikos 6y ago
  > We don't purchase products anymore, at least not digital things. Instead we're always buying a service. This is certainly what Amazon etc write in their terms and would like the legal system to enforce, but I think it's clear that most normal humans don't really think of it like this. The strongest argument that they don't is that the prices for films that you buy on google play and the books that you buy on amazon cost the same as they did before. Quite clearly, ownership rights are not worth nothing, so if the public are prepared to pay the same rates, the most likely explanation is that they are confused about what they are getting. There's been no real effort to disabuse them either - the amazon ebook site says 'Buy now', google play says 'buy'. What we're seeing is large tech companies trying (and so far succeeding) to redefine what it means to buy and to own things. People probably don't even think about the fact that if the company went bust or decided to stop offering their service, potentially thousands of dollars worth of things they thought they owned would go up in a puff of electrons. 20 years ago, people would have CD, DVD or book collections that would be insured for significant amounts of money. Is it possible to insure access to a digital media collection?
Animats 6y ago
Amazon.co.uk and its affiliates reserve the right to refuse service, terminate accounts, remove or edit content, or cancel orders at their sole discretion. - Amazon “If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever." - Orwell
- greenyoda 6y ago
  Ironically, the first highly publicized instance of Amazon deleting books from Kindle devices was its deletion of Orwell's "1984" in 2009: https://io9.gizmodo.com/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-the-kindle-5317703 https://io9.gizmodo.com/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-th...
  - yesenadam 6y ago
    I clicked on that link (in Australia) and got "Sorry! Yikes! That story doesn’t exist on Gizmodo Australia, but we have plenty of other great content you can check out here. If you’re still hellbent on that particular story, you can access the US version of Gizmodo here." – I was automatically redirected to https://www.gizmodo.com.au/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-the-kindle-5317703?r=US https://www.gizmodo.com.au/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from... No, not still hellbent thanks Gizmodo, just wanted to go to the link I clicked on, geez, if that's OK. Although after that weird experience, I don't. I thought the story had been deleted, for a moment!
asimjalis 6y ago
This is from 2012.
f1refly 6y ago
It's always a bit alienating to me when people suddenly wake up with their stuff taken away and are all like "how could this happen to me? why did noone warn me about this? how could amazon _do this to me_?" and then go off on their ways and "buy" the next movie from them (in addition to the amazon prime membership they already pay for that for some reason only includes the 480p version of the movie). It's not like they haven't been warned that this would happen. At some point, most people experienced some kind of abuse based on subsciption or otherwise questionable licensed service models. yet, they continue to not change a single thing about their behaviour. I really like ebooks. I like my newfound ability to carry around the novel I'm reading in the form of a pocketbook sized tablet with a matte screen that can be lit with warm orange light if I want it. But I buy all my books directly from the publisher, drm-free. That gives me the right to create as many copies as I want for personal use, makes it legal to integrate it into calibre, make a backup and store it on my ereader all at the same time. Buying from publishers is not hard. It's the second entry on ddg when I search for the book I'm currently reading. They even accept giropay without the need to create an account. With movies and music I can partially understand the streaming model because the average joe wants much of it, he wants it pre-curated to his taste and he wants it fast, without hassle. This is easy to accomplish with streaming in the drm-hell landscape it has become. But books? He buys a book maybe once every two weeks and the convenience is en par with the garbage dump amazon has set up and much less abusive than that. --- fixed spelling
- timwis 6y ago
  Interesting.. how often can you find the publisher offering a drm free copy? I buy _a lot_ of books (usually one or two per week), and I have a feeling I’d only find 1 in 5 from a publisher but haven’t checked. Also, I always do the “try a sample” first which has saved me a lot of money from buying books that weren’t what I expected. Wish there was an equivalent to that!
  - f1refly 6y ago
    I think all book I read in the last three years I bought without drm applied to the files. Most of them have some kind of invisible watermark I couldn't care less about that presumable helps the publisher track down who distributed a book if the user didn't remove it, but it being invisible and probably bit-sized, that's an okay thing in my book (heh). Now that I think of it, it might have to do with the fact that I read sci-fi almost exclusively, where the authors have some kind of political interest in freedom themselfes and might pick publishers accordingly, but I have no way to back that idea up. The majority of the books I bought are published by Bastei Lübbe (https://www.luebbe.de/ https://www.luebbe.de/), but smaller publishers usually allowed me to do the same. I don't read book samples because I check the reviews for books I plan on reading on whereever I can find them, but I might start if the reviews start failing me. Might have to figure out where those are possible then :)
elorant 6y ago
That's why I never registered my Kindle. It's always in Airplane mode and used as a dumb device connected to my PC through USB anytime I want to download books. Thanks, but no thanks Amazon. Unfortunately, we live in an era where everything that can connect to the Internet will abuse its intended use at some point.
- yourapostasy 6y ago
  > Unfortunately, we live in an era where everything that can connect to the Internet will abuse its intended use at some point. This is not an era-problem, this is a culture-problem. Likely an economic-incentives-problem. The culture in both business and consumers. There always seem to be The Assholes who corrupt it all for everyone. It's easy to point at businesses, but few talk about incidents of malfeasance from the other parties to the transactions. The guy who buys a circular saw from a big box store, uses it for a weekend project, then returns it. The woman who buys a dress, hides the price tag, wears it to a wedding, then returns it. Building high-trust, high-ethics organizations at scale and identifying individuals for those organizations is hard, and I wish there was more written about it. It's not a new problem, so I'd like to see the evolution of thought about it as well.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    Cultures define eras.
    - yourapostasy 6y ago
      Love your writing and musings. Long-time listener, first-time caller. Were this only an era problem. Then it would just be a passing fad, even if "passing" was longer than a human generation. I could handle that. However, there are in this (and other eras) non-dominant cultures of high-trust where the incidence of rough equivalent types of malfeasance or even the expectations of them occurring are noticeably lower. Many rural cultures, for example. So I was trying to concisely express the era doesn't define everyone in every culture. Now if I could understand why such non-dominant cultures do not scale and dominate, I think it could be the beginning of a beautiful civilization, to cop a line from Rick.
Isinlor 6y ago
Isn't it illegal in the EU? If they are renting the ebooks they must not mislead the customer with words like "buy an ebook". Some regulator should take them on that. Also, USA Supreme Court has no power in the EU. She bought Kindle it in the UK, I guess while they were still part of the EU. Here is a similar situation with Valve and Steam: French court rules that Steam’s ban on reselling used games is contrary to European law: https://www.polygon.com/2019/9/19/20874384/french-court-steam-valve-used-games-eu-law https://www.polygon.com/2019/9/19/20874384/french-court-stea...
- vmception 6y ago
  2012.
perryizgr8 6y ago
My Kindle's wifi chip is gone and Amazon won't repair it, even if I offer to pay for it. So joke's on them, now I'm immune from such remote account access shenanigans. I just transfer books using USB.
acd 6y ago
Generally on electronic platforms you buy a right to consume the content but you do not own the content. This is different from physical media where you can touch the content. Also with physical media you don’t own the content but it cannot be so easily removed. Movies can for example be taken away from digital purchases if the agreement between the movie studio and the content delivery platform ends.
donatj 6y ago
Needs a (2012)
accountLost 6y ago
Does anyone here have some experience using a kindle without account as describe here : https://www.techjunkie.com/kindle-without-amazon-account/ https://www.techjunkie.com/kindle-without-amazon-account/ Or here : https://ebookfriendly.com/unregistered-kindle-pros-cons/ https://ebookfriendly.com/unregistered-kindle-pros-cons/ I think after some research that the oasis may be the best value for money reader for my use case (pdf CS books) but I'm not sure about the amazon account and if it is worth the hassle to avoid it.
- imgabe 6y ago
  I haven't used my Kindle without an account, but I have put non-Kindle, non-Amazon books on it, including some PDFs. In my experience, the Kindle is terrible for reading PDFs. The screen is small, and PDFs don't dynamically resize the way e-books do. You'd probably be better off with an iPad or other tablet with better PDF software and better ability to zoom and pan than the Kindle has.
  - accountLost 6y ago
    Thanks. I don't expect a great experience but I'd like to see if a eInk reader would be easier on my eyes since I am already 10 hours a day on LCD. The following video gave me the impression that pdf on Kindle Oasis was acceptable... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f-CIESDs78g https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f-CIESDs78g
newyersey 6y ago
Lol, moral of the story: pirate whatever software you can :D
GekkePrutser 6y ago
They're not her books, unfortunately. This is the big issue with these digital services. You no longer own anything. At least the law is catching up to these practices now, here in the EU.
perakojotgenije 6y ago
Remember, folks - if you want the collection you can count on, pirate it. You'll be a criminal either way. https://xkcd.com/488/ https://xkcd.com/488/
Causality1 6y ago
Content vendors operating like this has cost me a lot of money. Not in terms of lost content, but in hard drives. I steadfastly refuse to relinquish control of anything I've paid for, so nearly every piece of licensed software or entertainment I've ever purchased has a pirated copy tucked safely in my archives.
slightwinder 6y ago
It's really time for laws which forbid companies to terminate accounts and access to them if they met certain conditions like licencing digital properties. Sure, they can restrict them all they want, as long as a fair stance prevails und people are not ripped of their goods. This strong difference in powers between companies and customers in the digital realm becomes more and more a serious problem. When people are stop buying digital goods or anything of certain types, just because they have no legal security, then it harms also companies themself. so it should be in their own interesst to support such things. There was a time in Europe when a strong movement for digital rights existed, but to bad it somehow died down.
- matheusmoreira 6y ago
  What good are rights when corporations can just have users sign them away by agreeing with some policy? They already make users waive a lot of rights, including the right to pursue legal action, the right to reverse engineer...
  - ampdepolymerase 6y ago
    Regulate as utilities/infrastructure. Nobody likes the Ma Bell type of anti-trust because it feels like infringing on private property rights but regulating as utility or infrastructure is much widely accepted and palatable. However if you have poor management then you end up in the P&G situation with blame passing from one generation of management to another and no real improvements.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      P&G or PG&E?
      - ampdepolymerase 6y ago
        PG&E, typo.
  - Silhouette 6y ago
PerilousD 6y ago
If you want to keep the item EITHER buy DRM free (generally NOT Amazon) OR convert the DRM version into a personal non-DRM copy (e.g Epub/PDF etc)and save that into your own personal archive.
- carlob 6y ago
  Or pirate the book and gift the paper version to someone (or donate it to some charity).
loydb 6y ago
This reminded me I hadn't ripped my Kindle library in awhile. Thanks.
alfiedotwtf 6y ago
Stallman was a prophet
racl101 6y ago
Yep. Don't buy expensive textbooks on the Kindle Store. That's a losing proposition.
noworriesnate 6y ago
How about this compromise: whenever a company cancels a customer's account, everything they bought has to be sent to them in a DRM-free format. It's a compromise because big companies still get to close customers' accounts on a whim (it sounds dumb, but companies should be allowed to "fire" their customers), but at least the customers get to keep what they paid for. Everybody wins. It's better than forcing the big companies to keep customers they suspect of abuse.
victords 6y ago
Thins like that is what keeps me from going all-digital in pretty much anything. Books, movies, games... The fact that one day you could wake up banned for something and lose everything you bought during years is absolutely awful.
0goel0 6y ago
Blame DRM: https://goel.io/drm-ownership https://goel.io/drm-ownership
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pedro2 6y ago
[2012]
BTCOG 6y ago
Stop supporting mediocre, rights-infringing corporatocracy. Don't buy from Amazon, this is the only thing that can and will make them change. Amazon put Borders books out of business and will soon put out Barnes & Noble and then you'll be left with no ebook choices, or shopping choices in general.
nobodyandproud 6y ago
Dumb question, but has Barnes and Nobles been better about their behavior with the Nook? I’m slowly weening myself away from Amazon where I can, but I need options.
- BTCOG 6y ago
  They print these paper volumes called books, and I've never once read a book on anything other than in paper, or on my computer. I just walked in Barnes and Noble last weekend and spent $44 on real books. Sure I spent double of what I could have spent at Amazon. I voted with my money. Fuck Amazon.
  - nobodyandproud 6y ago
    They still have a thing called the Nook. I’m curious whether they’re better behaved, though.
shikoba 6y ago
As soon as someone paid for a collection of bits, that someone deserve to be whipped.

319 points by Foe 6y ago

Indeed, and this is why I still buy paper books, DVDs and CDs (and vinyl, when the mood strikes). Heck, I suspect that in the not-too-distant future, old software licenses and media will be valuable, perhaps extremely so if open-source tools are effectively blocked on the major platforms.

Moru 6y ago
I borrow everything at the local library. If they don't have it, I ask if they can get it. Mostly I just give them the ISBN number and a few days later I get a mail that they reserved it for me, come and pick it up. Almost faster than ordering it myself on the net :-)
- aksss 6y ago
  In ebook form (e.g. Libby) or physical?
  - Moru 6y ago
    Physical
anuila 6y ago
> if open-source tools are effectively blocked on the major platforms. Come on, how can you have such a grim outlook? Nobody will “effectively block” open source tools. Consoles can afford to. Phones are being challenged. Everyone else won’t.
- imtringued 6y ago
  Windows on ARM only allows you to install Microsoft Store apps. Everyone claims ARM is the future but all I see is a proprietary prison.
  - anuila 6y ago
    The moment a platform becomes for “general purpose computing” they will be forced to open up. Especially Windows won’t be allowed to be a closed platform given its dominance. Even then, there will always be Linux.
touristtam 6y ago
I don't see the interest in buying DVDs. Books and Music are two medium one is likely to revisit. Movies/Drama on the other hand? Once it is viewed, are they really that many people that will try to view it again? Do they get the same thrill as for a very good story/music piece?
- jbay808 6y ago
  When I find a movie I really like, I tend to want to either rewatch it with different people who haven't seen it, or lend it to those people.
- SifJar 6y ago
  This is very subjective, I have rewatched far more DVDs than I have reread books; seems to me that rewatching a good story in movie form isn't much different to rereading a good story in book form? (Typically with less time commitment & effort/imagination required)
- imtringued 6y ago
  I agree. Revisiting old content is the rule, not the exception. If there is stuff you really want to watch again you are very likely to pay for it again. There is a game that I played on PS2 that has been ported to NDS and then PC and I bought all versions even though it was the same game every time.
jjav 6y ago
Same for me. I will only buy a paper copy of a book, which cannot be removed from my account when it is on my bookshelf. Same for CDs and DVDs. Amazon seems to offer an instant download of mp3s after buying a CD, so often I never even open the CD after receiving it. But having it means I will own it forever. Anything that is not available in a format I can own in perpetuity, I will not buy. Voting with your wallet is the only way to pressure these companies.
yreg 6y ago
My 2013 1Password license ($19.99) proved to be a valuable investment. Unfortunately I'll have to migrate to their subscription sooner or later, I already don't have access to their Safari extension.
- pantulis 6y ago
  Last time I checked they also had their regular license available in the website buried somewhere.
- BrandoElFollito 6y ago
  You may want to give a try to Bitwarden (https://bitwarden.com/ https://bitwarden.com/) I was a long (15years?) paying user of Lastpass, saw the company grow and discussed with the founders when they were just starting. Then the software grew old (and some M&A were dubious) Switching to Bitwarden was a great choice (since about a year) (I have no affiliation with Bitwarden, I just work in Information Security and look closely at this kind of software and their tradeoffs)
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    Thanks for mentioning it, it looks pretty nice. However, as that's something I would self-host, the pricing options do not make sense to me. I'd be willing to pay a one-time fee of $10, maybe $40 for the family variant (though 6 users feels really arbitrary when you self-host). Not $40 per year for little added value (the thing I'd be interested in is 2FA via OTP/U2F, and maybe that shared item thing). Anyway, I think I'll look at something else for now, I can't really afford that :)
    - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
      I do self host Bitwarden. There are two possibilities: - the official docker solution which is extremely complicated - https://github.com/dani-garcia/bitwarden_rs https://github.com/dani-garcia/bitwarden_rs which is extremely simple and just works. It includes everything for 0 EUR. I still sent money to both projects because I think they did a nice work. I find Bitwarden better than LP in handling Android (seems to be better at recognizing places it can fill in) and it is very complete in terms of what the product itself offers. I considered moving mu OTP (currently on Authy) there, up to the moment where I realized I need OTP for Bitwarden itself :) Otherwise I have no complaints. The sharing part is excellent (much better than LP) - the only thing to be aware of is that once you "share" with a group, the elements is not "yours" anymore. It becomes truly shared within the group. Specifically you cannot "take it back". While it was a bit disconcerting at first, I find it very logical in the long term. And use it extensively with my family.
deepstack 6y ago
Or just buy EPUB or PDF of the book that just sits on the hard drive.

donor20 6y ago

Is this true? I've loaded Kindle books directly from computer to kindle. Not that anyone does this, I suspect most folks want amazon to host the book for them forever and provide them access. But I do think if you actually download the book, you can basically load it onto a kindle baring very weird situations.

Moru 6y ago
She had it downloaded to her kindle but the kindle was broken. She could not access her account on any device or web so had no access to her library.
romwell 6y ago
The books you buy on Amazon have Amazon DRM. Unless you strip the DRM, you don't own the books.

Moru 6y ago

This is true not just for Kindle books. It's also your games library on Steam and all other similar stores. GOG.com is probably the only online game store where you realy own the stuff you "buy".

romwell 6y ago
Yes, but with Kindle at least you can strip the DRM of your eBooks. There's a Calibre plugin[1] that does it. If you really care about ebooks that you purchase, I highly recommend installing this plugin. It automatically strips DRM off books you download and open with Calibre. And keep a back-up of the (DRM-free) books somewhere that's not Amazon / a cloud. Because a cloud is simply a computer that you do not own. [1]http://www.geoffstratton.com/remove-drm-amazon-kindle-books http://www.geoffstratton.com/remove-drm-amazon-kindle-books
- hyperman1 6y ago
  Note how this is in most jurisdictions illegal. You are now pirating, except you paid for it.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    If by "most jurisdictions" you mean pretty much just US, then sure.
  - kranner 6y ago
    Is it really illegal? At least in the US cracking DRM for personal backup is not infringing AFAIK. https://gizmodo.com/its-perfectly-legal-to-tell-people-how-to-remove-drm-1670223538 https://gizmodo.com/its-perfectly-legal-to-tell-people-how-t...
    - giancarlostoro 6y ago
      This is what makes ROMs for games for game consoles fully legal assuming you ripped them from physical copies. Not sure how anyone would prove you didnt generate the copy yourself.

ece 6y ago

dedrm (and get a pdf) isn't too hard to setup with calibre. https://github.com/apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools/releases https://github.com/apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools/releases All books will likely be fingerprinted, which I believe is a far more effective method of controlling piracy.

wilt 6y ago

This is why I try to get drm free ebooks when possible or at least breakable drm. I like paying for it so the author gets paid but i don't want some 3rd party being able to revoke my access.

input_sh 6y ago
Kindle's DRM is breakable for at least half a decade now using this calibre plugin: https://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/ https://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/ I find it more convenient to break it than DRM-protected ePub files sold elsewhere (Barnes and Noble, Kobo, etc.).
- izacus 6y ago
  Except that the new Kindle DRM is very hard to remove and this plugin won't work anymore - it's a constant arms race where us customers are always the losers.
  - imgabe 6y ago
    It's possible, if a little annoying. In your account settings, Amazon offers the ability to download an e-book to transfer via USB. This gets you a version that you can import into Calibre and process with DeDRM.
Qwertious 6y ago
"I like paying for it so the author gets paid " I've been thinking about this: If this is the only reason you use an ebook-store (like the Kindle store), this would be fairly easy to create a 100% competitor for - after all, there's no law against creating a site for giving money to your favourite authors! ...and then you could create a plugin/API for embedding a "pay for book" button onto other sites - like pirate book sites, and the ONLY weapon Amazon would have against it would be the legal weapon against the pirate sites! Also you'd probably want the give-authors-money site to be run by a trustworthy nonprofit.
- zem 6y ago

imgabe 6y ago

This is why I use Calibre to strip the DRM and create backup copies of everything I buy on Kindle. I don't mind paying for content. I do mind if it can be rescinded and made inaccessible after I've paid for it.

romwell 6y ago
Obligatory instructions link: http://www.geoffstratton.com/remove-drm-amazon-kindle-books http://www.geoffstratton.com/remove-drm-amazon-kindle-books

josh_fyi 6y ago

Please tag this as 2012. It would be interesting to see a summary of this issue since then -- has Amazon made this into a regular problem for their customers?

AnssiH 6y ago
I already was thinking "huh, so maybe the Norwegian case a decade ago was not an outlier", but nope, this is again that same case that was widely reported at the time and seems to continue to resurface at times. Amazon claims in the article that one should not lose their access to their book library even if their account is blocked.
Qwertious 6y ago
I've seen this problem on /r/bestof on reddit - submitting 2011 comments and such, when everyone implicitly assumes comments submitted are present comments. IMO any sort of news/event post that's not recent (say, in the last month or so, or at least within a year of the posting date) should be required to add a "[2012]" (or whatever year it was posted) to the end of the title.
- lucideer 6y ago
  The Guardian has an interesting article on their approach to this[0] but I'm not sure what the best solution to this globally is. You can't rely on publishers entirely, and yet posters & commenting platforms often have difficulty identifying the dates on posts from certain publications (especially small blogs). [0] https://www.theguardian.com/help/insideguardian/2019/apr/02/why-were-making-the-age-of-our-journalism-clearer https://www.theguardian.com/help/insideguardian/2019/apr/02/...
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  This is already the rule on HN, the submitter must have forgotten (it happens!). A mod will likely change the title.
  - everybodyknows 6y ago

underdeserver 6y ago

Honestly? I'm okay with this business model. I know it's not a popular opinion here - but as there's no reasonable way to prevent people from unrestrictedly distributing copies, the business model of licensing books sounds reasonable to me. What's not reasonable is the lack of transparency when you're suspected of abuse. I understand that there are many bad actors, but these companies are judge, jury and executioner when it comes to handling what they think are abuse cases - and honest people who get caught in the crossfire have no recourse. Regulation needs to be put in place saying that if you paid a company any significant sum for services, you have the right to contest any claims of abuse and must be provided with all reasoning they have on that abuse within 24 hours. And you have a right to take them to court without needing to show damages when they're being unreasonable.

londons_explore 6y ago
I'd also be fine with the T&C's saying "For any reason, we can terminate the services we provide to you, and we will refund any money's paid with interest". That way, the company can decide to keep the evidence to themselves and not need to go to court, but must forgo all revenue from your account.
- evgen 6y ago
  If you break the rules of the contract what makes you think you get your money back? If you want a refund you should be required to prove that the company was the one that violated the agreement.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Prove to whom? The arbitration judge?
  - buran77 6y ago
    The problem in countries with expensive litigation is that it raises the bar for what a person would be willing to fight for. If I'll end up spending $10000 whether I win or lose I'll think twice before I litigate for a few hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of ebooks. It also incentivizes companies to do it for as long as they know they'll get away with it. You're pitting a company with billions to spend on this stuff and all the incentive to keep doing it against a regular consumer with none of the resources or determination. This is where regulation comes in and it should always favor the consumer by default. It's why countries have consumer protection agencies but no company protection agencies.

ageofwant 6y ago

This is why I steal everything I want using http://libgen.rs/ http://libgen.rs/ and so should you. If I find value in what I have stolen I will try and buy a DRM free copy of the work if it's available. I have 22k books in my curated calibre library, of those I have read a small fraction of 1% and I have paid for far fewer. This more or less matches the existing public library pattern. Authors cannot complain about 'lost income' as I simply would not consume their content anyway if I could not acquire it this way.

malka 6y ago

Message is very clear. If you want to own something, pirate it.

ManlyBread 6y ago
My sentiments exactly, I see no reason to support a model where I pay for something and it turns out that I'm not even an owner because there's a mention of it somewhere deep in the 500 page EULA. Which totally mirrors the experience of going to the bookstore, picking a book paying for it and... that's it, you can do whatever you want with it. I'm sure someone will point out that I agreed to these terms but the last time I checked a "store" doesn't lend things, it sells them, so it's easy to claim I have been misled.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  I don't think we should have to sign Eula, if i can buy a book without one, why cant I buy a game in the same manner? You are, equally, not allowed to duplicate and resell either of those.

neiman 6y ago

We don't purchase products anymore, at least not digital things. Instead we're always buying a service. Buying includes a very short period of trust between you and the seller, where you give them money, and they give you the product in return. Sometimes there's also a long trust involved due to warranty, but more often than not those failed me in the past, so I stopped taking them into account when making a purchase. But a service is a long term relationship between a customer and a service provider, and those ALWAYS failed me, if they existed for long enough. Amazon does not sell books to Kindle, but instead provides a service of renting Kindle books. The cause of confusion here is them using a wrong term to describe what they do.

toyg 6y ago
Unfortunately, it will take legislation to forbid them from stating or suggesting that you are actually purchasing digital goods. We should get a law that forbids any SaaS or media-rental company from ever using "purchase" in their advertising and operation. It could be the Interned Digital Goods Advertisement Fraud Act, or IDGAF act - as in "I don't give a f__k what you say; if I can't keep them forever and copy them around, those ain't 'goods' I'm buying, it's a rental service".
kybernetikos 6y ago
> We don't purchase products anymore, at least not digital things. Instead we're always buying a service. This is certainly what Amazon etc write in their terms and would like the legal system to enforce, but I think it's clear that most normal humans don't really think of it like this. The strongest argument that they don't is that the prices for films that you buy on google play and the books that you buy on amazon cost the same as they did before. Quite clearly, ownership rights are not worth nothing, so if the public are prepared to pay the same rates, the most likely explanation is that they are confused about what they are getting. There's been no real effort to disabuse them either - the amazon ebook site says 'Buy now', google play says 'buy'. What we're seeing is large tech companies trying (and so far succeeding) to redefine what it means to buy and to own things. People probably don't even think about the fact that if the company went bust or decided to stop offering their service, potentially thousands of dollars worth of things they thought they owned would go up in a puff of electrons. 20 years ago, people would have CD, DVD or book collections that would be insured for significant amounts of money. Is it possible to insure access to a digital media collection?

Animats 6y ago

Amazon.co.uk and its affiliates reserve the right to refuse service, terminate accounts, remove or edit content, or cancel orders at their sole discretion. - Amazon “If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever." - Orwell

greenyoda 6y ago
Ironically, the first highly publicized instance of Amazon deleting books from Kindle devices was its deletion of Orwell's "1984" in 2009: https://io9.gizmodo.com/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-the-kindle-5317703 https://io9.gizmodo.com/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-th...
- yesenadam 6y ago
  I clicked on that link (in Australia) and got "Sorry! Yikes! That story doesn’t exist on Gizmodo Australia, but we have plenty of other great content you can check out here. If you’re still hellbent on that particular story, you can access the US version of Gizmodo here." – I was automatically redirected to https://www.gizmodo.com.au/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-the-kindle-5317703?r=US https://www.gizmodo.com.au/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from... No, not still hellbent thanks Gizmodo, just wanted to go to the link I clicked on, geez, if that's OK. Although after that weird experience, I don't. I thought the story had been deleted, for a moment!

asimjalis 6y ago

This is from 2012.

f1refly 6y ago

It's always a bit alienating to me when people suddenly wake up with their stuff taken away and are all like "how could this happen to me? why did noone warn me about this? how could amazon _do this to me_?" and then go off on their ways and "buy" the next movie from them (in addition to the amazon prime membership they already pay for that for some reason only includes the 480p version of the movie). It's not like they haven't been warned that this would happen. At some point, most people experienced some kind of abuse based on subsciption or otherwise questionable licensed service models. yet, they continue to not change a single thing about their behaviour. I really like ebooks. I like my newfound ability to carry around the novel I'm reading in the form of a pocketbook sized tablet with a matte screen that can be lit with warm orange light if I want it. But I buy all my books directly from the publisher, drm-free. That gives me the right to create as many copies as I want for personal use, makes it legal to integrate it into calibre, make a backup and store it on my ereader all at the same time. Buying from publishers is not hard. It's the second entry on ddg when I search for the book I'm currently reading. They even accept giropay without the need to create an account. With movies and music I can partially understand the streaming model because the average joe wants much of it, he wants it pre-curated to his taste and he wants it fast, without hassle. This is easy to accomplish with streaming in the drm-hell landscape it has become. But books? He buys a book maybe once every two weeks and the convenience is en par with the garbage dump amazon has set up and much less abusive than that. --- fixed spelling

timwis 6y ago
Interesting.. how often can you find the publisher offering a drm free copy? I buy _a lot_ of books (usually one or two per week), and I have a feeling I’d only find 1 in 5 from a publisher but haven’t checked. Also, I always do the “try a sample” first which has saved me a lot of money from buying books that weren’t what I expected. Wish there was an equivalent to that!
- f1refly 6y ago
  I think all book I read in the last three years I bought without drm applied to the files. Most of them have some kind of invisible watermark I couldn't care less about that presumable helps the publisher track down who distributed a book if the user didn't remove it, but it being invisible and probably bit-sized, that's an okay thing in my book (heh). Now that I think of it, it might have to do with the fact that I read sci-fi almost exclusively, where the authors have some kind of political interest in freedom themselfes and might pick publishers accordingly, but I have no way to back that idea up. The majority of the books I bought are published by Bastei Lübbe (https://www.luebbe.de/ https://www.luebbe.de/), but smaller publishers usually allowed me to do the same. I don't read book samples because I check the reviews for books I plan on reading on whereever I can find them, but I might start if the reviews start failing me. Might have to figure out where those are possible then :)

elorant 6y ago

That's why I never registered my Kindle. It's always in Airplane mode and used as a dumb device connected to my PC through USB anytime I want to download books. Thanks, but no thanks Amazon. Unfortunately, we live in an era where everything that can connect to the Internet will abuse its intended use at some point.

yourapostasy 6y ago
> Unfortunately, we live in an era where everything that can connect to the Internet will abuse its intended use at some point. This is not an era-problem, this is a culture-problem. Likely an economic-incentives-problem. The culture in both business and consumers. There always seem to be The Assholes who corrupt it all for everyone. It's easy to point at businesses, but few talk about incidents of malfeasance from the other parties to the transactions. The guy who buys a circular saw from a big box store, uses it for a weekend project, then returns it. The woman who buys a dress, hides the price tag, wears it to a wedding, then returns it. Building high-trust, high-ethics organizations at scale and identifying individuals for those organizations is hard, and I wish there was more written about it. It's not a new problem, so I'd like to see the evolution of thought about it as well.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  Cultures define eras.
  - yourapostasy 6y ago
    Love your writing and musings. Long-time listener, first-time caller. Were this only an era problem. Then it would just be a passing fad, even if "passing" was longer than a human generation. I could handle that. However, there are in this (and other eras) non-dominant cultures of high-trust where the incidence of rough equivalent types of malfeasance or even the expectations of them occurring are noticeably lower. Many rural cultures, for example. So I was trying to concisely express the era doesn't define everyone in every culture. Now if I could understand why such non-dominant cultures do not scale and dominate, I think it could be the beginning of a beautiful civilization, to cop a line from Rick.

Isinlor 6y ago

Isn't it illegal in the EU? If they are renting the ebooks they must not mislead the customer with words like "buy an ebook". Some regulator should take them on that. Also, USA Supreme Court has no power in the EU. She bought Kindle it in the UK, I guess while they were still part of the EU. Here is a similar situation with Valve and Steam: French court rules that Steam’s ban on reselling used games is contrary to European law: https://www.polygon.com/2019/9/19/20874384/french-court-steam-valve-used-games-eu-law https://www.polygon.com/2019/9/19/20874384/french-court-stea...

vmception 6y ago
2012.

perryizgr8 6y ago

My Kindle's wifi chip is gone and Amazon won't repair it, even if I offer to pay for it. So joke's on them, now I'm immune from such remote account access shenanigans. I just transfer books using USB.

acd 6y ago

Generally on electronic platforms you buy a right to consume the content but you do not own the content. This is different from physical media where you can touch the content. Also with physical media you don’t own the content but it cannot be so easily removed. Movies can for example be taken away from digital purchases if the agreement between the movie studio and the content delivery platform ends.

donatj 6y ago

Needs a (2012)

accountLost 6y ago

Does anyone here have some experience using a kindle without account as describe here : https://www.techjunkie.com/kindle-without-amazon-account/ https://www.techjunkie.com/kindle-without-amazon-account/ Or here : https://ebookfriendly.com/unregistered-kindle-pros-cons/ https://ebookfriendly.com/unregistered-kindle-pros-cons/ I think after some research that the oasis may be the best value for money reader for my use case (pdf CS books) but I'm not sure about the amazon account and if it is worth the hassle to avoid it.

imgabe 6y ago
I haven't used my Kindle without an account, but I have put non-Kindle, non-Amazon books on it, including some PDFs. In my experience, the Kindle is terrible for reading PDFs. The screen is small, and PDFs don't dynamically resize the way e-books do. You'd probably be better off with an iPad or other tablet with better PDF software and better ability to zoom and pan than the Kindle has.
- accountLost 6y ago
  Thanks. I don't expect a great experience but I'd like to see if a eInk reader would be easier on my eyes since I am already 10 hours a day on LCD. The following video gave me the impression that pdf on Kindle Oasis was acceptable... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f-CIESDs78g https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f-CIESDs78g

newyersey 6y ago

Lol, moral of the story: pirate whatever software you can :D

GekkePrutser 6y ago

They're not her books, unfortunately. This is the big issue with these digital services. You no longer own anything. At least the law is catching up to these practices now, here in the EU.

perakojotgenije 6y ago

Remember, folks - if you want the collection you can count on, pirate it. You'll be a criminal either way. https://xkcd.com/488/ https://xkcd.com/488/

Causality1 6y ago

Content vendors operating like this has cost me a lot of money. Not in terms of lost content, but in hard drives. I steadfastly refuse to relinquish control of anything I've paid for, so nearly every piece of licensed software or entertainment I've ever purchased has a pirated copy tucked safely in my archives.

slightwinder 6y ago

It's really time for laws which forbid companies to terminate accounts and access to them if they met certain conditions like licencing digital properties. Sure, they can restrict them all they want, as long as a fair stance prevails und people are not ripped of their goods. This strong difference in powers between companies and customers in the digital realm becomes more and more a serious problem. When people are stop buying digital goods or anything of certain types, just because they have no legal security, then it harms also companies themself. so it should be in their own interesst to support such things. There was a time in Europe when a strong movement for digital rights existed, but to bad it somehow died down.

matheusmoreira 6y ago
What good are rights when corporations can just have users sign them away by agreeing with some policy? They already make users waive a lot of rights, including the right to pursue legal action, the right to reverse engineer...
- ampdepolymerase 6y ago
  Regulate as utilities/infrastructure. Nobody likes the Ma Bell type of anti-trust because it feels like infringing on private property rights but regulating as utility or infrastructure is much widely accepted and palatable. However if you have poor management then you end up in the P&G situation with blame passing from one generation of management to another and no real improvements.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    P&G or PG&E?
    - ampdepolymerase 6y ago
      PG&E, typo.
- Silhouette 6y ago

PerilousD 6y ago

If you want to keep the item EITHER buy DRM free (generally NOT Amazon) OR convert the DRM version into a personal non-DRM copy (e.g Epub/PDF etc)and save that into your own personal archive.

carlob 6y ago
Or pirate the book and gift the paper version to someone (or donate it to some charity).

loydb 6y ago

This reminded me I hadn't ripped my Kindle library in awhile. Thanks.

alfiedotwtf 6y ago

Stallman was a prophet

racl101 6y ago

Yep. Don't buy expensive textbooks on the Kindle Store. That's a losing proposition.

noworriesnate 6y ago

How about this compromise: whenever a company cancels a customer's account, everything they bought has to be sent to them in a DRM-free format. It's a compromise because big companies still get to close customers' accounts on a whim (it sounds dumb, but companies should be allowed to "fire" their customers), but at least the customers get to keep what they paid for. Everybody wins. It's better than forcing the big companies to keep customers they suspect of abuse.

victords 6y ago

Thins like that is what keeps me from going all-digital in pretty much anything. Books, movies, games... The fact that one day you could wake up banned for something and lose everything you bought during years is absolutely awful.

0goel0 6y ago

Blame DRM: https://goel.io/drm-ownership https://goel.io/drm-ownership

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

pedro2 6y ago

[2012]

BTCOG 6y ago

Stop supporting mediocre, rights-infringing corporatocracy. Don't buy from Amazon, this is the only thing that can and will make them change. Amazon put Borders books out of business and will soon put out Barnes & Noble and then you'll be left with no ebook choices, or shopping choices in general.

nobodyandproud 6y ago

Dumb question, but has Barnes and Nobles been better about their behavior with the Nook? I’m slowly weening myself away from Amazon where I can, but I need options.

BTCOG 6y ago
They print these paper volumes called books, and I've never once read a book on anything other than in paper, or on my computer. I just walked in Barnes and Noble last weekend and spent $44 on real books. Sure I spent double of what I could have spent at Amazon. I voted with my money. Fuck Amazon.
- nobodyandproud 6y ago
  They still have a thing called the Nook. I’m curious whether they’re better behaved, though.

shikoba 6y ago

As soon as someone paid for a collection of bits, that someone deserve to be whipped.