28 ms·

I don't have a TV, only a few monitors (it's very liberating, actually). So instead I'll talk about my microwave. Yes, unironically! :D It has two dials. OMG ho

by kebman 6y ago

I don't have a TV, only a few monitors (it's very liberating, actually). So instead I'll talk about my microwave. Yes, unironically! :D It has two dials. OMG how do I survive with only two dials? How do I program it? Well, the answer is, unsurprisingly, that I don't program it. Instead I crank it to watever wattage I need (usually the top one), and the time I think it'll take until the food I becomes hot. Aaaand that's it. No programming. No fiddling or mindlessly pushing buttons in the hopes of finding the right one. Only two dials. One for wattage (power output), and the other for time. I think it's really great. There's even some indicators on the Watt-dial for thawing and stuff like that, but I seldom need it, so I usually just keep it rested on 800W. It's the required wattage for most TV dinners anyway. And hot pockets. Don't forget hot pockets guys. How would I survive without...... If you didn't get it, this is actually a post about UIs, and how much I love the book The Design of Everyday Things by Donald Norman.[1] [1]: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded/dp/0465050654 https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expand...

greetings 6y ago
Ok, I'll ask. Which Microwave do you have?
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  I don’t know if this is the same one, but a quick Google came up with the Turbo Air Radiance Series TMW-1100NM. Never seen these but I want one, microwave UIs are the worst. That’s more of a commercial one, a cheaper version (Impecca) came up too but the link was broken.
  - kebman 6y ago
    OMG that one looks like it'd fit right into a Fallout game! How many bottle caps? Here, take them all! Anyway, mine is a Samsung. Affordable too! Edit: Note to self: Stop telling dad jokes on HN.
    - saxonww 6y ago
      You realize that microwave is doing ACR on everything you cook, and selling it to your insurance company, right? (Sorry HN)
  - nicbou 6y ago
    Just look for the cheap brands. Many of them have really simple interfaces. Mine is also just two knobs.
- romwell 6y ago
  I have an old TATUNG I bought off Craigslist for $10, and I'm clinging onto it for my dear life (4 years and 2 interstate moves later).
ponker 6y ago
You have an actual variable power microwave? Not a duty cycle power control??
- kebman 6y ago
  Perhaps I was imprecise. It has a stepped dial, with pre-set wattages. Caveat for not being an electrician. ^^
  - ponker 6y ago
    But the “wattages” just pulse the thing on and off right? I’ve never heard of a home microwave that can apply true variable power. If you have one I’ll buy it.
    - Treblemaker 6y ago
      It's marketed as "Inverter Technology" Most of the major brands in the US have them, now, and the reliability is improving. As I understand it the drive transistors in early models were prone to failure. More info available here: https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/MCDOC03402966_BOSCH_microwave_details_19.pdf https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/MCDOC03402966_BOSCH_...
- vocram 6y ago
  Now I am curious of how most microwaves are modulating power.
  - ornornor 6y ago
    Every mw I’ve ever owned or used turns the magnetron on and off. If it’s a 1000W unit and you set it to 300W, it’ll only heat 30% of the time. You can hear it from the noise it makes, it’s slightly louder when the magnetron is on.
    - codeulike 6y ago
      Wow. So basic. That reminds me about dishwashers - you put powder or a tablet in a little hatch and I always wondered what happened behind the hatch, does it inject water, disolve the powder, and then pump it around to the jets? I recently realised. Nope. It just opens the hatch ten minutes into the cycle and the tablet/powder falls into the machine with a clunk.
shitgoose 6y ago
I would reduce it to one dial. Two dials is too much.
- bArray 6y ago
  Eh, I've had the "one button" UI on a "smart" watch where you're doing a series of single taps, multi-taps, short presses, long presses, etc. It's really not fun for several reasons: 1. It takes forever to do anything even remotely complex. 2. The most common features aren't really the easiest to access (in terms of input effort). 3. If you make even a single mistake in a long series of taps, you have to loop all the way back through the interface. If you let it timeout, this is apparently the equivalent of a "select". 4. There is zero intuition for any this functionality. I know some people here will not like to here this, but it's how I feel when somebody with an iPad is showing me the difference between a one finger, two finger, three finger and four finger swipe/grip. It's not that they exist and nobody but a power user would access them, for me it's more that I might accidentally trigger one of these functions and have zero idea of cause and effect. The worst offenders are when the UI changes depending on the context. Like that touch bar Apple had where the buttons and layout would change depending on which application you are in. I understand how it could be cool for a power user, but as a normal user I want some standardization for the location of things between apps.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    So much this. I bought an oven. I wanted as few features as possible, ideally just a bake and a grill, then a knob for the amount of heat. I bought one with 2 knobs and that appeared to have very few ‘features’. It turns out it does a ton. You hold both knobs and do various twiddle manoeuvres and things start happening. The light turns on, the clock adjusts, the timer is set, the eco mode is activated or the temperature goes up. It’s awful. Smeg.
    - contradictioned 6y ago
      The oven in my apartment doesn't even have knobs, but only touch surface controls. It is so annoying as I cannot quickly set it to one of the three programs I normally use, and holding the "up" button for selecting the temperature is also not working well. Especially since the thing gets harder to control the dirtier my fingers are, and that just naturally happens when preparing a meal.
vonseel 6y ago
Given that I bought that book in 2012 as a result of someone else’s comment here about it, and I’ve seen so many other comments about it here, I’d wager that this site has sold a lot of copies of that book. It is a good read, though. Free marketing for Donald Norman!
phonon 6y ago
> wattage (energy output) Nope, power output.
- barrkel 6y ago
  energy output per unit time
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- skyyler 6y ago
  Did your distinction really deepen the conversation? Why are people compelled to make corrections like this?
  - lopmotr 6y ago
    While I'm sure it's usually for some personal emotional reasons, it's still a valuable service. Getting that wrong inhibits your ability to reason about the topic. What's the point of having thoughts that are just a soup of words that sound like they make sense but are actually nonsense? This is not like correcting grammar where it hardly matters and we have to use some kind of grammar to write. If you didn't know what something meant, you could have just not tried to explain it or not used the word.
  - pegasus 6y ago
    I found it a useful reminder. The ranking algo made sure it wasn't distracting. And it's a good idea to use the correct term when it's available.
  - phonon 6y ago
    > Did your distinction really deepen the conversation? Yes. For some people, it might be the most valuable thing they learn from the entire discussion. Imagine having as business discussion and mixing up P&L and a Balance Sheet. If you think it was just a pedantic correction, maybe you should reconsider.
  - 6y ago
acjohnson55 6y ago
A couple years ago, I discovered the joy of microwaving at low to mid power. The results are far better for foods that have already been cooked, at the cost of mildly longer cook time. The only thing I nuke at full power is liquid.
- kingosticks 6y ago
  You and me both. I was fed up of following the cooking instructions only to have some things explode. I was particularly tired of cleaning up porridge which will quickly turn concrete-like. Instead, drop it down to medium, add on a minute or two and it's perfect. Why is it that all microwave cooking instructions say to use high power. I recently bought a soup that included the cook time for a 1000W microwave, I can't imagine that ending well.
  - Moru 6y ago
    A microwave only work with an on/off cycle. It runs on MAX for x seconds and off for y seconds. If you want 50% effect, it runs 5 seconds, then wait 5 seconds. Cooking it on low is just letting the food distribute the heat naturally for a while, instead of building up an energy bubble that will expload in steam. So low effect is good. It's still max effect but on half the time. When cooking oatmeal porridge I usually do one cup oatmeal and 2 cups and a little more of water. In deep plate, full effect in microwave for 2 minutes but I watch it the whole time. When it starts building a volcano I let it go on until the edges of the volcano goes to the edge of the plate. THen everything is nicely cooked and I stuff my butter and a bit of salt in there and stir it until it's the thickness I want. Add milk to stop the thickeninig and eat. Maybe with some applejam on top. Oh, and make sure the oatmeal is not the generic type, it tastes nothing. There are really nice types around that makes oatmeal really great. Of course there is a slowcook method too but I haven't tried that yet. Let the oatmeal just stand in cold water over the night, no cooking included.
    - 05 6y ago
      Cheap ones, anyway. Expensive models sometimes have an inverter.
mtalantikite 6y ago
“I don't have a TV, only a few monitors.” I also highly recommend this. It’s been 18 years since I’ve lived in a house with a tv. It’s still weird to me that people design their living rooms around sitting facing a screen rather than other humans.
- minitoar 6y ago
  Less weird now with most of my social interactions being via screens.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- drevil-v2 6y ago
  Watching live sports on 75inch TV is an amazing experience. Especially if it is broadcast in 4k
  - mtalantikite 6y ago
    For sure, that’s important to some people, but I’ll just walk over to a local bar if there really is a game I want to catch (like the World Cup).
- Hamuko 6y ago
  >It’s still weird to me that people design their living rooms around sitting facing a screen rather than other humans. I spent the vast majority of my time facing a screen rather than other humans.
  - remexre 6y ago
    Same, but I think that's an argument for making your social space the opposite
    - Hamuko 6y ago
      Why? It's not like I'm going to have any more guests over.
Agentlien 6y ago
My microwave also has those two dials, which I use a lot. Plus a whole array of other buttons and functions I've never used.
sfaruque 6y ago
I find the microwaves with dials just last longer, and they are usually cheaper. In my experience, the touch pads on the digital ones breakdown faster.
moksly 6y ago
My microwave has a wheel to turn the timer, a wheel to set the WATT, a stop button and a start button. If you press the start button it’ll automatically run for 30 seconds, if you press it again it’ll add another 30 seconds to the current run. It took me maybe 4 years of owning it before I learned of the start button feature. Not sure what the hell people are doing with microwaves that connect to the internet, but I sure as hell like mine simple enough for me to operate it. A general theme with most of my kitchen/home appliances really. If something doesn’t work out of the box, or if it has a gazillion “smart” features, then it’s likely just not for me. A tad ironic to some people, I know. I work in public sector digitisation after all, we’re working with cutting edge tech every day, to help make the lives of citizens easier. Like how to distribute medicine so people with dementia actually take it. So many people naturally assume I’m a gadget person, and in fact a lot of my colleagues are, but I just don’t get why you’d want your TV to be “smart“. So I’ll happily enforce your message about simple Designs.
- lb1lf 6y ago
  -AOL. I work in automation&controls in the oil industry, and my customers are always puzzled when I start to whittle away at the features suggested, rather than adding to them; my mantra being that 'If it isn't there, it cannot fail.' My experience echoes yours - I keep my appliances as simple as possible, both at home and professionally. Add complexity wherever you have to, not wherever you want to.
  - jiggawatts 6y ago
    I work in the IT systems integration industry, and I have unironically used the phrase "fewer moving parts" when describing the benefits of my preferred architectures.
    - tuatoru 6y ago
      This could be interpreted either way in this context. So, in the context of microwaves, does this mean you prefer software-controlled ovens instead of simpler ones with mechanical timers (which have lots of moving parts), or the reverse?
romwell 6y ago
>I don't have a TV, only a few monitors (it's very liberating, actually). So instead I'll talk about my microwave. Yes, unironically! :D It has two dials. Same here! I only worry about the day when it stops working, because no UI designer seems to realize that there is nothing better, and new microwaves come with atrocious, laggy, pointless UIs.
- grogenaut 6y ago
  Buy a commercial microwave that just has minutes if there's no other option
bananamerica 6y ago
My microwave has a lot of buttons but I basically use it like you do.
garfieldnate 6y ago
We're going off topic now, but why do all microwaves have knobs now? I hate them. I want a number pad like the microwaves had when I was growing up. I want to close the door, press the numbers that indicate the amount of time I want and hit "start". When you turn a knob, either you have no indication of the exact time, or there's a display that moves in increments that the computer thinks are good (usually 10s). I don't want to scroll to the time I think is good, and I don't want to fight the thing trying to get smaller increments, which I need for doing more sensitive foods (microwave cake, for example). The knobs can also be difficult for people with certain disabilities. While I'm griping already, a lot of people hate the button interfaces some (rare) microwaves have because they use capacitive touch buttons with no haptic feedback, and careful aim is required to press the correct button. I wish manufacturers would make microwaves with button blister keypads instead. For blind users, blister buttons can also have raised braile indicators, or users can buy "bump dots" to make the buttons easier to find and actuate. What do blind users do with a microwave that has knobs? If the knobs click and they use the microwave regularly, I guess they could memorize the number of clicks to turn them. If they're ultra-smooth digital no-click knobs, then they have to memorize quarter-turns and turning speed, etc. Sounds awful! Or perhaps I am mistaken and there is actually a microwave with both knobs and voice guidance (though if I were blind I think slow voice guidance would drive me nuts). [Edit]: formatting
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Same here. I want my button-blister microwaves back. Knobs are low-accuracy, low-precision. Which may be fine for some cooking, but not all. On my current knob-equipped microwave, my precision is limited to +/- 30 seconds simply due to the mechanical design, which means a) it's hard to heat anything up "just a little", as sub-minute heating is hit-and-miss, and b) it's hard to do food sensitive to cooking time. Button blisters with a digital clock telling time to the second. That's an interface I can trust because I can see the time counting down in the correct pace (I have trust issues with all kinds of analog knob timers, including Pomodoro timers). That's an interface I've learned to use without looking, one hand keying in the correct time and power setting, the other hand operating food, <Start> getting pressed as soon as the tray door close. I still remember my most common sequence from childhood. <Cook Time> <Power Level> <Power Level> <1> <4> <0> <Start>. Could do that blind even today. Knobs are good for things that you need to scroll around a lot (and knobs in professional devices excel at jumping precision levels to allow an excellent experience here). Setting time and power on a microwave is not like that. You have exact values in mind, and need a way to input them precisely. Having an input level precise to 1 second is useful if you're using it day-in, day out. As a kid, I was mostly doing the same few meals in the microwave, so I had perfect timing nailed with experience. For instance, a DIY zapiekanka[0] made of bread, cheese and some flavoring, would come out perfect at Full power, 1:40 time. Add 20 seconds, and you'd burn the cheese. The cheese was the factor that determined microwave settings. If, for some reason, my mom bought a different type than usual, I'd have to correct the time (usually adjust up), but then with experience I quickly developed "cheese tables" in my head. I'd look at a slice, and think, "ok, this is the smelly one, needs +40 seconds to come out well". Etc. Then I'd key in the correct settings, and come back in 2 minutes to the perfectly made zapiekanka. (I suppose this was my attempt at treating cooking as an industrial process and not black magic :).) -- [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapiekanka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapiekanka
devnonymous 6y ago
Here in Ireland and based on my time living and travelling in Germany I'd say in most of Europe, its hard to get a microwave that isn't just wattage and timer. Here except for a few things like phones and tvs, smart electronics aren't as easily available as my home country, India. I speculate this is perhaps related to the age of the population.
- jacobush 6y ago
  Rather, richer markets are pickier.
  - devnonymous 6y ago
    I'm not too sure about that because if that were true the online shopping experiences in these richer markets in Europe would be better than India which is quite demonstratively not the case. Hence my assertion about correlation with age of the population.
    - kossTKR 6y ago
      How is online shopping in India better than in Europe?
      - devnonymous 6y ago
        The UX tends to be more sophisticated. The mobile experience is way better. The payment options are many and well integrated. The choices are better. Search is better. Delivery (time as well as tracking) is better.
- mrmonkeyman 6y ago
  Uh, no.
- fluffy87 6y ago
  Why Edge? Being “critical” about products depends on how educated a population is. I just asked to a bunch of friends (we are having breakfast in Europe) if they know about smart microwaves. They all know they exist, but asked “why on earth would I want that?”. They just want two knobs to set time and power. The discussion now moved to smart Toasters, where everybody just wants one knob... In my experience, people here buy stuff either because they need it, or because they find it really cool and just love the technology. I don’t know anybody that finds smart microwaves or their technology cool. Same applies to smart toasters or smart TVs.
vanderZwan 6y ago
TDoET is a classic. If you like digging further into philosophical musings on the subject of design, you might also enjoy What Things Do: Philosophical Reflections On Tochnology by Peter-Paul Verbeek. Here's a review: [1] https://ndpr.nd.edu/news/what-things-do-philosophical-reflections-on-technology-agency-and-design/ https://ndpr.nd.edu/news/what-things-do-philosophical-reflec...
muyuu 6y ago
I feel somewhat self-conscious about being old-fashioned but that's exactly the way I liked it. I've also never had or intended to have a "smart TV" or a smart-almost-anything. Just the computers, and the smartphone and I feel like that's already a huge concession... use it in the most untrusted way possible.
codeulike 6y ago
Microwaves have such terrible UIs. I always wanted to make an online Microwave UI simulator where it generates a random Microwave control panel and you have to work out which buttons to press to heat up some soup.
- smichel17 6y ago
  Seriously, once you've used a micdowave where the +30s (or +1m) button is the same as the start button, you'll constantly be wondering who thought it made sense to do it any other way.
- kebman 6y ago
  OMG I'd love to see that! :D Do one for VHS players too, please!
natch 6y ago
My microwave has one round dial that turns. That’s it. And zero buttons. It’s fantastic. Turn the dial, and it starts. The farther around you turn it, the more time you get. The scale is clearly marked around the dial with large readable numbers and gives progressively more coarse as you turn through about 340 degrees or so (less than 360). To abort and turn it off early, just turn the knob back to the zero. Otherwise it turns itself off at the chosen time. There’s a digital readout that tells the time remaining. Simplest interface ever and none of those nasty washable flat panel buttons, or any others as I said. It’s a Sharp brand “Medium Duty Commercial 1000 watt” model. Pretty pricey ($269) but very worth it. At the time, I found it on Amazon but I don’t see it on there now. Model R21LCFS. I see it does come up on duck duck go at some other suppliers like https://www.usaequipmentdirect.com/sharp-commercial-medium-duty-1000w-microwave- https://www.usaequipmentdirect.com/sharp-commercial-medium-d... (not a typo that the link ends in a dash apparently). One caveat: it does not have any rotating mechanism inside. This has never been a problem except I do sometimes manually rotate food during a long session. But this is super easy because you don’t have to bend down or punch buttons. ObTV: don’t have one either. Best TV choice imho.
- microcolonel 6y ago
  > Oh, the things it won't do! It won't baste, mist, sense, probe, convect, or take your food for a horsy ride. It doesn't care to know if you're cooking pork or potatoes, or if something's thawed or frozen, solid or liquid, or 1 lb. or 5. It doesn't issue odd advice ("Stand and Cover"! "Pull Apart"!). You can't use it as a nightlight. It won't tell you the time. It won't match your decor. It won't even cook anything for more than 6 minutes at a time. There's nothing to choose, nothing to alter, nothing to select, nothing to enter. All it's got is a big, smooth 1950's style dial that does a backwards countdown, with an accompanying red light marking the time as it goes. A great appliance that hardly does anything at all. Highly recommend. I see you're in love.
  - natch 6y ago
    Hmm that’s not me but it sounds about right.
sorokod 6y ago
Goes well with a single-button-no-display rice cooker.
epanchin 6y ago
Sounds like my 2001 car. If I'm too hot I press a button. If I want to skip track or listen to the radio I press a button. I don't even remember what the buttons look like becuase I know where I need to press my finger to change something.
Aeolun 6y ago
I kind of like that my microwave has a button (in addition to a gazillion others that we don’t use), that somehow determines what is inside and how long it will take to heat up. And then automatically sets time and wattage. No more thinking, just press the button and get hot stuff. It even gets it right some of the time.
paleogizmo 6y ago
I've never got the meme about numpads on microwaves being needlessly complicated design. On about any decent microwave made in the last 10 year, pushing 1-6 gives a cook time of 1-6 minutes, respectively. Pushing start again after cooking has started will add 30 seconds. For longer cook times, press "time cook." Maybe this sounds a bit complicated, but it's efficient and all written down on the keypad. Mechanical timers really don't work well for less than 5 minutes. Good microwaves with a dial use a rotary encoder and increase time logarithmically. It sure looks elegant on the builtin over your stove, but log scaling really isn't intuitive outside volume controls, and probably more fiddly than buttons. If there is a gripe to be had about microwave numpads, it's the useless popcorn setting. The microwave popcorn bag tells you not to use the popcorn setting. It's like something out of bad standup. /rant
- pnt12 6y ago
  It's a textbook example on design and UIs, spread by professionals and teachers. Do you just dismiss it as a meme because you don't get it? From your own post, it's more complicated already. With wheel/knob, you have an interface for time and another for power. A little twist means a short value, a long twist means a high value. If you know what you want to do, you already know how to use this microwaves. I think the problem is it's slightly harder to use, eg you need to understand that more food needs more time to heat, that different cooking needs different power, etc. But you learn as you go. I think the equivalent for a car would be to have a buttons for 'fast', 'medium', 'slow', 'bumpy terrain', 'road','long trip', 'short trip'. How crazy would that be?
  - COGlory 6y ago
    > I think the equivalent for a car would be to have a buttons for 'fast', 'medium', 'slow', 'bumpy terrain', 'road','long trip', 'short trip'. How crazy would that be? Plenty of upmarket cars have these types of settings, and are routinely praised for it.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  There are nonlinear dials with larger, clearly-marked steps for short periods (often only a few seconds), then larger steps. See: e.g. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61-ZBoSyt0L.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61-ZBoSyt0L... https://media.primasupply.com/25104-38090/cms/38090/files/8cd9a347-829d-490e-abf2-da939382a1fe https://media.primasupply.com/25104-38090/cms/38090/files/8c... DDG image search: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=micrave+dial+timer&iax=images&ia=images&pn=1 https://duckduckgo.com/?q=micrave+dial+timer&iax=images&ia=i...
baby 6y ago
makes me think about toasters and how they haven't really evolved because it works fine enough
- MaxikCZ 6y ago
  I dont know what toaster you use, but for me, toasters are exactly a piece of technology that evolved from masterpiece to horrible UX. Look up Sunbeam Radiant Toaster[0]. Now compare it to any other toaster you can buy today. I wish I could buy one Sunbeam Radiant Toaster, but its kinda pricy importing one from random ebay seller to EU.. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y
leftbrain 6y ago
When living in japan my apartment came with this microwave that wasn’t smart by any means, but had like 50 buttons and I only ever had to use one of them. The Start button. It would start heating and I would guess there was a temperature sensor that would automatically stop the thing once the food was hot. In a case it was not hot enough, you would press the same button again and it would go on again for another 20 sec or so. Brilliant.
webmobdev 6y ago
Oh god, you are really lucky! I am shopping for a new microwave and here in India all the microwave makers only have the two-knobs (wattage and timer) one on small-size microwaves that can only fit a bowl. All the larger size one's come with lot of stupid buttons (defrost, cook, heat, start, stop etc.) and an LCD display. I just want the two-knobs one on a large microwave but it just isn't available. I now plan to get one from abroad. :(

by kebman 6y ago

greetings 6y ago

Ok, I'll ask. Which Microwave do you have?

wlesieutre 6y ago
I don’t know if this is the same one, but a quick Google came up with the Turbo Air Radiance Series TMW-1100NM. Never seen these but I want one, microwave UIs are the worst. That’s more of a commercial one, a cheaper version (Impecca) came up too but the link was broken.
- kebman 6y ago
  OMG that one looks like it'd fit right into a Fallout game! How many bottle caps? Here, take them all! Anyway, mine is a Samsung. Affordable too! Edit: Note to self: Stop telling dad jokes on HN.
  - saxonww 6y ago
    You realize that microwave is doing ACR on everything you cook, and selling it to your insurance company, right? (Sorry HN)
- nicbou 6y ago
  Just look for the cheap brands. Many of them have really simple interfaces. Mine is also just two knobs.
romwell 6y ago
I have an old TATUNG I bought off Craigslist for $10, and I'm clinging onto it for my dear life (4 years and 2 interstate moves later).

ponker 6y ago

You have an actual variable power microwave? Not a duty cycle power control??

kebman 6y ago
Perhaps I was imprecise. It has a stepped dial, with pre-set wattages. Caveat for not being an electrician. ^^
- ponker 6y ago
  But the “wattages” just pulse the thing on and off right? I’ve never heard of a home microwave that can apply true variable power. If you have one I’ll buy it.
  - Treblemaker 6y ago
    It's marketed as "Inverter Technology" Most of the major brands in the US have them, now, and the reliability is improving. As I understand it the drive transistors in early models were prone to failure. More info available here: https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/MCDOC03402966_BOSCH_microwave_details_19.pdf https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/MCDOC03402966_BOSCH_...
vocram 6y ago
Now I am curious of how most microwaves are modulating power.
- ornornor 6y ago
  Every mw I’ve ever owned or used turns the magnetron on and off. If it’s a 1000W unit and you set it to 300W, it’ll only heat 30% of the time. You can hear it from the noise it makes, it’s slightly louder when the magnetron is on.
  - codeulike 6y ago
    Wow. So basic. That reminds me about dishwashers - you put powder or a tablet in a little hatch and I always wondered what happened behind the hatch, does it inject water, disolve the powder, and then pump it around to the jets? I recently realised. Nope. It just opens the hatch ten minutes into the cycle and the tablet/powder falls into the machine with a clunk.

shitgoose 6y ago

I would reduce it to one dial. Two dials is too much.

bArray 6y ago
Eh, I've had the "one button" UI on a "smart" watch where you're doing a series of single taps, multi-taps, short presses, long presses, etc. It's really not fun for several reasons: 1. It takes forever to do anything even remotely complex. 2. The most common features aren't really the easiest to access (in terms of input effort). 3. If you make even a single mistake in a long series of taps, you have to loop all the way back through the interface. If you let it timeout, this is apparently the equivalent of a "select". 4. There is zero intuition for any this functionality. I know some people here will not like to here this, but it's how I feel when somebody with an iPad is showing me the difference between a one finger, two finger, three finger and four finger swipe/grip. It's not that they exist and nobody but a power user would access them, for me it's more that I might accidentally trigger one of these functions and have zero idea of cause and effect. The worst offenders are when the UI changes depending on the context. Like that touch bar Apple had where the buttons and layout would change depending on which application you are in. I understand how it could be cool for a power user, but as a normal user I want some standardization for the location of things between apps.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  So much this. I bought an oven. I wanted as few features as possible, ideally just a bake and a grill, then a knob for the amount of heat. I bought one with 2 knobs and that appeared to have very few ‘features’. It turns out it does a ton. You hold both knobs and do various twiddle manoeuvres and things start happening. The light turns on, the clock adjusts, the timer is set, the eco mode is activated or the temperature goes up. It’s awful. Smeg.
  - contradictioned 6y ago
    The oven in my apartment doesn't even have knobs, but only touch surface controls. It is so annoying as I cannot quickly set it to one of the three programs I normally use, and holding the "up" button for selecting the temperature is also not working well. Especially since the thing gets harder to control the dirtier my fingers are, and that just naturally happens when preparing a meal.

vonseel 6y ago

Given that I bought that book in 2012 as a result of someone else’s comment here about it, and I’ve seen so many other comments about it here, I’d wager that this site has sold a lot of copies of that book. It is a good read, though. Free marketing for Donald Norman!

phonon 6y ago

> wattage (energy output) Nope, power output.

barrkel 6y ago
energy output per unit time
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
skyyler 6y ago
Did your distinction really deepen the conversation? Why are people compelled to make corrections like this?
- lopmotr 6y ago
  While I'm sure it's usually for some personal emotional reasons, it's still a valuable service. Getting that wrong inhibits your ability to reason about the topic. What's the point of having thoughts that are just a soup of words that sound like they make sense but are actually nonsense? This is not like correcting grammar where it hardly matters and we have to use some kind of grammar to write. If you didn't know what something meant, you could have just not tried to explain it or not used the word.
- pegasus 6y ago
  I found it a useful reminder. The ranking algo made sure it wasn't distracting. And it's a good idea to use the correct term when it's available.
- phonon 6y ago
  > Did your distinction really deepen the conversation? Yes. For some people, it might be the most valuable thing they learn from the entire discussion. Imagine having as business discussion and mixing up P&L and a Balance Sheet. If you think it was just a pedantic correction, maybe you should reconsider.
- 6y ago

acjohnson55 6y ago

A couple years ago, I discovered the joy of microwaving at low to mid power. The results are far better for foods that have already been cooked, at the cost of mildly longer cook time. The only thing I nuke at full power is liquid.

kingosticks 6y ago
You and me both. I was fed up of following the cooking instructions only to have some things explode. I was particularly tired of cleaning up porridge which will quickly turn concrete-like. Instead, drop it down to medium, add on a minute or two and it's perfect. Why is it that all microwave cooking instructions say to use high power. I recently bought a soup that included the cook time for a 1000W microwave, I can't imagine that ending well.
- Moru 6y ago
  A microwave only work with an on/off cycle. It runs on MAX for x seconds and off for y seconds. If you want 50% effect, it runs 5 seconds, then wait 5 seconds. Cooking it on low is just letting the food distribute the heat naturally for a while, instead of building up an energy bubble that will expload in steam. So low effect is good. It's still max effect but on half the time. When cooking oatmeal porridge I usually do one cup oatmeal and 2 cups and a little more of water. In deep plate, full effect in microwave for 2 minutes but I watch it the whole time. When it starts building a volcano I let it go on until the edges of the volcano goes to the edge of the plate. THen everything is nicely cooked and I stuff my butter and a bit of salt in there and stir it until it's the thickness I want. Add milk to stop the thickeninig and eat. Maybe with some applejam on top. Oh, and make sure the oatmeal is not the generic type, it tastes nothing. There are really nice types around that makes oatmeal really great. Of course there is a slowcook method too but I haven't tried that yet. Let the oatmeal just stand in cold water over the night, no cooking included.
  - 05 6y ago
    Cheap ones, anyway. Expensive models sometimes have an inverter.

mtalantikite 6y ago

“I don't have a TV, only a few monitors.” I also highly recommend this. It’s been 18 years since I’ve lived in a house with a tv. It’s still weird to me that people design their living rooms around sitting facing a screen rather than other humans.

minitoar 6y ago
Less weird now with most of my social interactions being via screens.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
drevil-v2 6y ago
Watching live sports on 75inch TV is an amazing experience. Especially if it is broadcast in 4k
- mtalantikite 6y ago
  For sure, that’s important to some people, but I’ll just walk over to a local bar if there really is a game I want to catch (like the World Cup).
Hamuko 6y ago
>It’s still weird to me that people design their living rooms around sitting facing a screen rather than other humans. I spent the vast majority of my time facing a screen rather than other humans.
- remexre 6y ago
  Same, but I think that's an argument for making your social space the opposite
  - Hamuko 6y ago
    Why? It's not like I'm going to have any more guests over.

Agentlien 6y ago

My microwave also has those two dials, which I use a lot. Plus a whole array of other buttons and functions I've never used.

sfaruque 6y ago

I find the microwaves with dials just last longer, and they are usually cheaper. In my experience, the touch pads on the digital ones breakdown faster.

moksly 6y ago

My microwave has a wheel to turn the timer, a wheel to set the WATT, a stop button and a start button. If you press the start button it’ll automatically run for 30 seconds, if you press it again it’ll add another 30 seconds to the current run. It took me maybe 4 years of owning it before I learned of the start button feature. Not sure what the hell people are doing with microwaves that connect to the internet, but I sure as hell like mine simple enough for me to operate it. A general theme with most of my kitchen/home appliances really. If something doesn’t work out of the box, or if it has a gazillion “smart” features, then it’s likely just not for me. A tad ironic to some people, I know. I work in public sector digitisation after all, we’re working with cutting edge tech every day, to help make the lives of citizens easier. Like how to distribute medicine so people with dementia actually take it. So many people naturally assume I’m a gadget person, and in fact a lot of my colleagues are, but I just don’t get why you’d want your TV to be “smart“. So I’ll happily enforce your message about simple Designs.

lb1lf 6y ago
-AOL. I work in automation&controls in the oil industry, and my customers are always puzzled when I start to whittle away at the features suggested, rather than adding to them; my mantra being that 'If it isn't there, it cannot fail.' My experience echoes yours - I keep my appliances as simple as possible, both at home and professionally. Add complexity wherever you have to, not wherever you want to.
- jiggawatts 6y ago
  I work in the IT systems integration industry, and I have unironically used the phrase "fewer moving parts" when describing the benefits of my preferred architectures.
  - tuatoru 6y ago
    This could be interpreted either way in this context. So, in the context of microwaves, does this mean you prefer software-controlled ovens instead of simpler ones with mechanical timers (which have lots of moving parts), or the reverse?

romwell 6y ago

>I don't have a TV, only a few monitors (it's very liberating, actually). So instead I'll talk about my microwave. Yes, unironically! :D It has two dials. Same here! I only worry about the day when it stops working, because no UI designer seems to realize that there is nothing better, and new microwaves come with atrocious, laggy, pointless UIs.

grogenaut 6y ago
Buy a commercial microwave that just has minutes if there's no other option

bananamerica 6y ago

My microwave has a lot of buttons but I basically use it like you do.

garfieldnate 6y ago

We're going off topic now, but why do all microwaves have knobs now? I hate them. I want a number pad like the microwaves had when I was growing up. I want to close the door, press the numbers that indicate the amount of time I want and hit "start". When you turn a knob, either you have no indication of the exact time, or there's a display that moves in increments that the computer thinks are good (usually 10s). I don't want to scroll to the time I think is good, and I don't want to fight the thing trying to get smaller increments, which I need for doing more sensitive foods (microwave cake, for example). The knobs can also be difficult for people with certain disabilities. While I'm griping already, a lot of people hate the button interfaces some (rare) microwaves have because they use capacitive touch buttons with no haptic feedback, and careful aim is required to press the correct button. I wish manufacturers would make microwaves with button blister keypads instead. For blind users, blister buttons can also have raised braile indicators, or users can buy "bump dots" to make the buttons easier to find and actuate. What do blind users do with a microwave that has knobs? If the knobs click and they use the microwave regularly, I guess they could memorize the number of clicks to turn them. If they're ultra-smooth digital no-click knobs, then they have to memorize quarter-turns and turning speed, etc. Sounds awful! Or perhaps I am mistaken and there is actually a microwave with both knobs and voice guidance (though if I were blind I think slow voice guidance would drive me nuts). [Edit]: formatting

TeMPOraL 6y ago
Same here. I want my button-blister microwaves back. Knobs are low-accuracy, low-precision. Which may be fine for some cooking, but not all. On my current knob-equipped microwave, my precision is limited to +/- 30 seconds simply due to the mechanical design, which means a) it's hard to heat anything up "just a little", as sub-minute heating is hit-and-miss, and b) it's hard to do food sensitive to cooking time. Button blisters with a digital clock telling time to the second. That's an interface I can trust because I can see the time counting down in the correct pace (I have trust issues with all kinds of analog knob timers, including Pomodoro timers). That's an interface I've learned to use without looking, one hand keying in the correct time and power setting, the other hand operating food, <Start> getting pressed as soon as the tray door close. I still remember my most common sequence from childhood. <Cook Time> <Power Level> <Power Level> <1> <4> <0> <Start>. Could do that blind even today. Knobs are good for things that you need to scroll around a lot (and knobs in professional devices excel at jumping precision levels to allow an excellent experience here). Setting time and power on a microwave is not like that. You have exact values in mind, and need a way to input them precisely. Having an input level precise to 1 second is useful if you're using it day-in, day out. As a kid, I was mostly doing the same few meals in the microwave, so I had perfect timing nailed with experience. For instance, a DIY zapiekanka[0] made of bread, cheese and some flavoring, would come out perfect at Full power, 1:40 time. Add 20 seconds, and you'd burn the cheese. The cheese was the factor that determined microwave settings. If, for some reason, my mom bought a different type than usual, I'd have to correct the time (usually adjust up), but then with experience I quickly developed "cheese tables" in my head. I'd look at a slice, and think, "ok, this is the smelly one, needs +40 seconds to come out well". Etc. Then I'd key in the correct settings, and come back in 2 minutes to the perfectly made zapiekanka. (I suppose this was my attempt at treating cooking as an industrial process and not black magic :).) -- [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapiekanka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapiekanka

devnonymous 6y ago

Here in Ireland and based on my time living and travelling in Germany I'd say in most of Europe, its hard to get a microwave that isn't just wattage and timer. Here except for a few things like phones and tvs, smart electronics aren't as easily available as my home country, India. I speculate this is perhaps related to the age of the population.

jacobush 6y ago
Rather, richer markets are pickier.
- devnonymous 6y ago
  I'm not too sure about that because if that were true the online shopping experiences in these richer markets in Europe would be better than India which is quite demonstratively not the case. Hence my assertion about correlation with age of the population.
  - kossTKR 6y ago
    How is online shopping in India better than in Europe?
    - devnonymous 6y ago
      The UX tends to be more sophisticated. The mobile experience is way better. The payment options are many and well integrated. The choices are better. Search is better. Delivery (time as well as tracking) is better.
mrmonkeyman 6y ago
Uh, no.
fluffy87 6y ago
Why Edge? Being “critical” about products depends on how educated a population is. I just asked to a bunch of friends (we are having breakfast in Europe) if they know about smart microwaves. They all know they exist, but asked “why on earth would I want that?”. They just want two knobs to set time and power. The discussion now moved to smart Toasters, where everybody just wants one knob... In my experience, people here buy stuff either because they need it, or because they find it really cool and just love the technology. I don’t know anybody that finds smart microwaves or their technology cool. Same applies to smart toasters or smart TVs.

vanderZwan 6y ago

TDoET is a classic. If you like digging further into philosophical musings on the subject of design, you might also enjoy What Things Do: Philosophical Reflections On Tochnology by Peter-Paul Verbeek. Here's a review: [1] https://ndpr.nd.edu/news/what-things-do-philosophical-reflections-on-technology-agency-and-design/ https://ndpr.nd.edu/news/what-things-do-philosophical-reflec...

muyuu 6y ago

I feel somewhat self-conscious about being old-fashioned but that's exactly the way I liked it. I've also never had or intended to have a "smart TV" or a smart-almost-anything. Just the computers, and the smartphone and I feel like that's already a huge concession... use it in the most untrusted way possible.

codeulike 6y ago

Microwaves have such terrible UIs. I always wanted to make an online Microwave UI simulator where it generates a random Microwave control panel and you have to work out which buttons to press to heat up some soup.

smichel17 6y ago
Seriously, once you've used a micdowave where the +30s (or +1m) button is the same as the start button, you'll constantly be wondering who thought it made sense to do it any other way.
kebman 6y ago
OMG I'd love to see that! :D Do one for VHS players too, please!

natch 6y ago

My microwave has one round dial that turns. That’s it. And zero buttons. It’s fantastic. Turn the dial, and it starts. The farther around you turn it, the more time you get. The scale is clearly marked around the dial with large readable numbers and gives progressively more coarse as you turn through about 340 degrees or so (less than 360). To abort and turn it off early, just turn the knob back to the zero. Otherwise it turns itself off at the chosen time. There’s a digital readout that tells the time remaining. Simplest interface ever and none of those nasty washable flat panel buttons, or any others as I said. It’s a Sharp brand “Medium Duty Commercial 1000 watt” model. Pretty pricey ($269) but very worth it. At the time, I found it on Amazon but I don’t see it on there now. Model R21LCFS. I see it does come up on duck duck go at some other suppliers like https://www.usaequipmentdirect.com/sharp-commercial-medium-duty-1000w-microwave- https://www.usaequipmentdirect.com/sharp-commercial-medium-d... (not a typo that the link ends in a dash apparently). One caveat: it does not have any rotating mechanism inside. This has never been a problem except I do sometimes manually rotate food during a long session. But this is super easy because you don’t have to bend down or punch buttons. ObTV: don’t have one either. Best TV choice imho.

microcolonel 6y ago
> Oh, the things it won't do! It won't baste, mist, sense, probe, convect, or take your food for a horsy ride. It doesn't care to know if you're cooking pork or potatoes, or if something's thawed or frozen, solid or liquid, or 1 lb. or 5. It doesn't issue odd advice ("Stand and Cover"! "Pull Apart"!). You can't use it as a nightlight. It won't tell you the time. It won't match your decor. It won't even cook anything for more than 6 minutes at a time. There's nothing to choose, nothing to alter, nothing to select, nothing to enter. All it's got is a big, smooth 1950's style dial that does a backwards countdown, with an accompanying red light marking the time as it goes. A great appliance that hardly does anything at all. Highly recommend. I see you're in love.
- natch 6y ago
  Hmm that’s not me but it sounds about right.

sorokod 6y ago

Goes well with a single-button-no-display rice cooker.

epanchin 6y ago

Sounds like my 2001 car. If I'm too hot I press a button. If I want to skip track or listen to the radio I press a button. I don't even remember what the buttons look like becuase I know where I need to press my finger to change something.

Aeolun 6y ago

I kind of like that my microwave has a button (in addition to a gazillion others that we don’t use), that somehow determines what is inside and how long it will take to heat up. And then automatically sets time and wattage. No more thinking, just press the button and get hot stuff. It even gets it right some of the time.

paleogizmo 6y ago

I've never got the meme about numpads on microwaves being needlessly complicated design. On about any decent microwave made in the last 10 year, pushing 1-6 gives a cook time of 1-6 minutes, respectively. Pushing start again after cooking has started will add 30 seconds. For longer cook times, press "time cook." Maybe this sounds a bit complicated, but it's efficient and all written down on the keypad. Mechanical timers really don't work well for less than 5 minutes. Good microwaves with a dial use a rotary encoder and increase time logarithmically. It sure looks elegant on the builtin over your stove, but log scaling really isn't intuitive outside volume controls, and probably more fiddly than buttons. If there is a gripe to be had about microwave numpads, it's the useless popcorn setting. The microwave popcorn bag tells you not to use the popcorn setting. It's like something out of bad standup. /rant

pnt12 6y ago
It's a textbook example on design and UIs, spread by professionals and teachers. Do you just dismiss it as a meme because you don't get it? From your own post, it's more complicated already. With wheel/knob, you have an interface for time and another for power. A little twist means a short value, a long twist means a high value. If you know what you want to do, you already know how to use this microwaves. I think the problem is it's slightly harder to use, eg you need to understand that more food needs more time to heat, that different cooking needs different power, etc. But you learn as you go. I think the equivalent for a car would be to have a buttons for 'fast', 'medium', 'slow', 'bumpy terrain', 'road','long trip', 'short trip'. How crazy would that be?
- COGlory 6y ago
  > I think the equivalent for a car would be to have a buttons for 'fast', 'medium', 'slow', 'bumpy terrain', 'road','long trip', 'short trip'. How crazy would that be? Plenty of upmarket cars have these types of settings, and are routinely praised for it.
dredmorbius 6y ago
There are nonlinear dials with larger, clearly-marked steps for short periods (often only a few seconds), then larger steps. See: e.g. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61-ZBoSyt0L.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61-ZBoSyt0L... https://media.primasupply.com/25104-38090/cms/38090/files/8cd9a347-829d-490e-abf2-da939382a1fe https://media.primasupply.com/25104-38090/cms/38090/files/8c... DDG image search: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=micrave+dial+timer&iax=images&ia=images&pn=1 https://duckduckgo.com/?q=micrave+dial+timer&iax=images&ia=i...

baby 6y ago

makes me think about toasters and how they haven't really evolved because it works fine enough

MaxikCZ 6y ago
I dont know what toaster you use, but for me, toasters are exactly a piece of technology that evolved from masterpiece to horrible UX. Look up Sunbeam Radiant Toaster[0]. Now compare it to any other toaster you can buy today. I wish I could buy one Sunbeam Radiant Toaster, but its kinda pricy importing one from random ebay seller to EU.. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y

leftbrain 6y ago

When living in japan my apartment came with this microwave that wasn’t smart by any means, but had like 50 buttons and I only ever had to use one of them. The Start button. It would start heating and I would guess there was a temperature sensor that would automatically stop the thing once the food was hot. In a case it was not hot enough, you would press the same button again and it would go on again for another 20 sec or so. Brilliant.

webmobdev 6y ago

Oh god, you are really lucky! I am shopping for a new microwave and here in India all the microwave makers only have the two-knobs (wattage and timer) one on small-size microwaves that can only fit a bowl. All the larger size one's come with lot of stupid buttons (defrost, cook, heat, start, stop etc.) and an LCD display. I just want the two-knobs one on a large microwave but it just isn't available. I now plan to get one from abroad. :(