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Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much e

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either side, so that's basically life changing on its own. :)

blablabla123 6y ago
Same for me, also that I can use the same docking station for my work and my private laptop is awesome. Of course the support for the (quite complex) standard is not fully there yet, so one cannot blindly buy or connect new stuff.
buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
Did you not read the article? Because your response doesn’t address any of the issues brought up in the article. Mainly that all the usb-c cables you sprinkle across your house might not have the same functionality. And if you plug your switch in to one it might charge it, while another will not.
- Drew_ 6y ago
  > Mainly that all the usb-c cables you sprinkle across your house might not have the same functionality. If you buy decent cables they all do. The reality is that whatever devices you're plugging the cables into might not support every feature you're looking for. Instead of blaming poorly built devices or ignorant consumers it must be the shape of the cable that's the problem surely.
- ilikehurdles 6y ago
  Exactly! This has been my experience. I bought 3 different USB-C cables for my keyboard until I found one that let the keyboard work as the original did. I have a few usb-c cables that will charge my gopro and a few that won't. I like the form factor, but the standard itself is a mess.
- duxup 6y ago
  > Because your response doesn’t address any of the issues brought up in the article. Not the issues, but it addresses the gist of it. For that person (and me) it has simplified things. If simplifying your life is part of the measurement, it has for some folks.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  > Mainly that all the usb-c cables you sprinkle across your house might not have the same functionality. this is a problem if you expect things to be like USB2 where you can collect all these random cables and power blocks and use them interchangeably. this wasn't always true with USB2 anyway, with all the out of spec "fast charge" implementations. there are a lot of optional features and speed tiers for USB3, which is certainly annoying. but you have the option of buying a bunch of cables that support everything you need/use and scatter those around your house. they will work with any standards compliant equipment, which is really the best you can hope for with any standard.
  - jedimastert 6y ago
    > this is a problem if you expect things to be like USB2 where you can collect all these random cables and power blocks and use them interchangeably. this wasn't always true with USB2 anyway, with all the out of spec "fast charge" implementations. Silly question time, why would we not expect that?
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      I mean you can expect whatever you want. what I'm saying is the beautiful past where all USB cables were perfectly interchangeable never existed. in the last generation we had power-only cables, data-only (although this is out of spec, I believe), and various out of spec fast charging implementations. if you pick up a random usb charging block and micro-usb cable, there was never any guarantee that it would transfer data to your phone, fast charge it, or even charge it at all.
      - tpxl 6y ago
        Those cables were distinct upon physical inspection (missing pins), which USB C cables are not.
        leetcrew 6y ago
        sure, if you're familiar with the pinout, you can tell whether the data or power lines are completely missing. there was still no guarantee that any arbitrary cable would work with whatever fast charge implementation you were using. you would likely get 0.5A trickle charging at least, but the device could also just refuse to charge at all. from my perspective, USB-IF has taken a bunch of random shit that manufacturers were going to do anyway and made them proper (though optional) parts of the spec. I understand it didn't work out perfectly, but I don't really understand why they are getting so much flak for it. I'd much rather have a bunch of cables and devices that at least try to meet an official spec than to have a bunch of proprietary implementations that make no effort at being compatible.
- jeremymcanally 6y ago
  I did read it, and for my use cases, I don't have issues. I understand others' use cases may not match mine, but this situation seems basically like any other connectivity standard in the history of technology. Except this time, the universality for what most people use it for has actually managed to catch on. :)
  - pwinnski 6y ago
    "Universality" that involves many people finding that cables that look identical don't actually work the same way. Interesting definition there. Universality of physical plug, I guess?
    - Dahoon 6y ago
      I'm not sure I see how this is an interesting definition. How is it different from HDMI or LAN cables? There the cables also define capability so "cables that look identical don't actually work the same way".
      - lmm 6y ago
        > How is it different from HDMI or LAN cables? There the cables also define capability so "cables that look identical don't actually work the same way". In theory yes. In practice most of the cables are good enough for most users - e.g. in a home LAN cables are probably 10m at most, so even a cat5 cable can probably give people a connection that's as fast as their internet uplink. If the problems with USB-C are common enough to impact normal users (and I think lack of thunderbolt falls into that category) then that's a major difference in practice.
    - inopinatus 6y ago
      Buy shitty products, get shitty outcomes. This is not the fault of the connector standard.
  - moogleii 6y ago
    It sounds like you've experienced either just pure luck or that you've carefully selected your components (which degrades the "universality" claim), at least for the Switch, since it doesn't fully implement PD and can short out.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  FWIW I've never had an issue with the cables. The only time USB-C has bitten me is when trying to charge a device using a charger meant for a lower tier of hardware. I've never had any issues with USB-PD chargers. For example my MBP charger works on everything. My phone chargers don't work at all on my cheap Chinese laptop, but they'll trickle charge my MBP (which has honestly been a lifesaver). Even my $20 battery pack will get me a few hours of laptop life
  - cactus2093 6y ago
    Exactly, and honestly it's pretty intuitive: big devices need big chargers. For me, my laptop is the only device I own that needs a big 100w adapter, everything else can share smaller adapters. And one big benefit of the current USB-C era is that 15-18W power adapters are more ubiquitous than ever, and compact enough that there's almost never any reason to use a smaller one anymore. And more and more devices are not coming with their own power adapter these days, which is better for the environment and simplifies my life, every usb-c device I own can be charged by the same chargers and will charge quickly. It's way better than each device coming with its own adapter of arbitrary shape that may or may not be able to be plugged in without blocking the adjacent socket on the wall or power strip, with seemingly arbitrary max power output, with an arbitrary choice of using usb A/mini/micro connector.
- Latty 6y ago
  Those problems are hardly unique to USB-C. With Micro-USB I had charging cables that didn't have data lines in them, Kindle power adaptors that didn't offer enough output for my phone to charge off, and non-standard devices that didn't follow the spec and only worked with certain stuff. In my experience, it works well enough I've actively only been buying USB-C stuff where it is at all possible to do so for a while now. It feels like these complaints are inevitable to me: a spec with no flexibility would become redundant too quickly or cost far too much to implement in most devices to ever see widespread adoption.
  - inopinatus 6y ago
    This is not much harder the the issue of 8P8C connectors, which some (incorrectly) call RJ45. Depending on cable configuration, pinout, wall plate and structured wiring system, that 8P8C might be usable (or not) for multiple different types of data networking, from the assorted ethernet speeds (some of which may successfully autonegotiate, but not all) to E1 to token ring, or for a serial console, or delivering power and audio to a remote speaker, or hdmi-over-utp, or even -48V telephony, and let's not even get started on the only-subtly-different but actually incompatible RJ45S connector, or people sticking RJ11 plugs in 8P8C ports. And yet the world has coped with this proliferation. I have experienced none of the issues described in the article despite possessing 30+ USB Type-C devices. The article above simply comes across as an overwhelming refusal to take any personal responsibility for technical purchasing choices.
    - kalleboo 6y ago
      My UPS uses 8P8C for it's USB port! I can't imagine how many cents they saved over using a USB B port (but I do know that I sure as hell don't want to lose that weird RJ45 to USB cable, who knows if the pinout matches whatever cable I can find on amazon)
- cwhiz 6y ago
  This is a problem with essentially any cable. The only difference between old and new is that the new problem is with a single plug instead of a handful of plugs.
cowmoo728 6y ago
Except the switch doesn't actually use usb-c pd, it's a different proprietary thing that uses a usb-c connector.
- greenshackle2 6y ago
  This is such a terrible design decision.
  - oblio 6y ago
    $$$
- dathinab 6y ago
  No it uses USB-C PD! It's just incorrectly implements the switch to an alternate mode which it uses for it's duck which causes 3rd party docks to fry switches. It's generally more sensitive in that alternate mode as it draws more power. The dock itself is a different matter. But the switch does implant USB-C PD just fine. I'm frequently charging it with my laptop charger and many people do so as far as I know. It's also why using a power bank with the switch works just fine.
vr46 6y ago
Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. All my apple kit works fine off the Apple chargers, but I do have an external hard drive that has mixed Thunderbolt 3/USB 3.1 ports, which are absolutely not the same. I love the port, but the standard just hasn't caught up and when a company like Nintendo flouts it anyway, you have a big problem.
- izacus 6y ago
  > Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. It has worked reliably with pretty much every charger I threw at it so this sounds like one of those urban myths.
  - majewsky 6y ago
    I have a 2018 Switch and it works well with all chargers I've tested so far (mostly Apple and Lenovo besides the one that came with the Swift). My guess is that the problems that existed in the original hardware were fixed in a subsequent hardware revision.
    - tdsamardzhiev 6y ago
      So does mine, 3 years and counting.
    - vr46 6y ago
      Maybe the problems were fixed, but not by the time mine was ordered from Amazon on 8 December 2018. It charged fine with an Anker and Apple charger for, well, until it went pop this July. I'm glad yours is working fine, and it does come with a two-year warranty, but this was considered damage. From Nintendo's repair service: > Our engineers have inspected your Switch Console and found damage due to USB-C Connector Damage. Under our warranty policy we do not cover the cost of the repair for damaged items. A payment of £53.50 is required for us to complete the repair.
city41 6y ago
I could see it being great if all your devices are on it. But when you have usb-c, usb micro, usb mini and usb-b devices, the cables are a total pain. On top of the special pain usb-c brings onto itself. I have a cabinet that is basically dedicated to usb cables, using organizers to keep them all accessible and searchable. That does help a lot. But I feel like having to go that far is a sign usb was not as well thought out as it could have been.
- syshum 6y ago
  Well that just means you are not replacing all your devices every 12 months like the manufacturers want....
  - city41 6y ago
    Heh :) a lot of current devices I buy still use usb micro. I'm mostly dealing with modern fpga recreations of old game consoles like analogue.co's products. Maybe usb-c has some kind of licensing cost that makes it prohibitive for smaller companies?
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thrower123 6y ago
Micro-USB was better. Especially since there are still so many existing devices that used micro-USB ports.
- himlion 6y ago
  No, those cables are not durable at all. Cheap or expensive, they don't last more than a few months with heavy use.
  - ben-schaaf 6y ago
    The couple daily use cables I've got have lasted years. Only cables I've had break regularly are headphone cables.
  - Vrondi 6y ago
    Yet, over the years, I've only had one or two break. I have years-old Motorola micro usb cables that still work perfectly, and which are still in use. They were not all garbage.
- izacus 6y ago
  Only if you forget that there were at least 10 differente incompatible standards on how the device told the charger to pull more power.
  - thrower123 6y ago
    What is different about that with USB-C?
    - VLM 6y ago
      Microusb usually didn't burn out or brick the device
    - floatboth 6y ago
      Obviously: PD existing. And most devices, even those that have custom modes (e.g. OnePlus Warp), support PD too.
izacus 6y ago
It gets even better when you find out you can get a HDMI/Power dock that works with Switch, laptop, phone and can provide video and charge them all without having to carry 15 cables with you. Can it be confusing? Yes. But it's a hellova improvement from bunch of disjoint cable standards we had before.
dx87 6y ago
Nintendo says you shouldn't use anything except 1st party cables with the Switch. There were articles a couple of years ago talking about Switches being bricked. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-switch-consoles-keep-frying/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-sw...
- oblio 6y ago
  This is on Nintendo being jerks. Just because web server X doesn't implement the standard correctly, that does not make TCP or HTTP bad.
  - chungus_khan 6y ago
    No, but the average consumer doesn't care who's actually at fault. They're just confused when their stuff doesn't work/is flaky. There is a difference between the standard in theory and the standard in practice, and I've seen a remarkable number of ordinary people very confused about whether various things actually work with each other, and a lot of it out in the real world is very poorly communicated and out-of-spec.
- dathinab 6y ago
  Note that most bricking was with 3rd party docks (due to the Switch not so standard conform HDMIish + charging alternate mode). Bricking your switch with a "pure" charger mostly only happens with but fully standard conform chargers used with the wrong cable. Most (all?) Hight voltage/amper chargers like e.g. for laptops work just fine on the switch. Through it's a bit more troublesome for the dock.
- outworlder 6y ago
  Why are they saying 'bricked' when they mean they were destroyed? 'Bricking' is normally a firmware issue. Do we say that a car was 'bricked' when we trash it in an accident?
  - imtringued 6y ago
    Bricking is generally considered to be invisible destruction that renders a device useless but still cosmetically intact. People used to call these things paperweights with a hint of irony because there are lots of fancy paperweight designs. Nowadays people view such devices to be as useful as bricks. They are heavy and take up space but they are still intact and jokingly enough you could actually use them as construction material. A car that was destroyed in an accident would not be considered bricked because it has sustained cosmetic damage. You can't use it for it's aesthetics alone. e.g. in a museum. A Tesla car where the battery charger has died could be considered a bricked car though.
sq_ 6y ago
100% agree with you on how convenient USB-C can make things. Being able to carry one 60-90w brick with multiple USB-C PD outputs and charge pretty much all of my devices off of it is amazing. On the other hand, I would say that all of us here on HN probably aren't the target audience for this article. Collectively, I'd say HN readers are likely to understand that different USB-C bricks, cables, and devices are going to support different things and research our purchases accordingly. The article seems to be more targeted at people who will grab a $3.50 gas station cable and expect it to charge their phone at 18w and laptop at 65w.
- mnky9800n 6y ago
  But I think this is a problem when the elkjøp guy gave my wife the wrong usb-c cable for charging her phone.
  - sq_ 6y ago
    Part of me thinks we're just in a very long, drawn-out adoption process for all of this. Things seem to have gotten much better since the first USB-C only Macbooks and other devices started to arrive, so my hope is that we'll reach a point within another few years where one can pretty confidently purchase a cable or charger and assume it'll work with a standard device. It certainly does suck for now that you can end up with the wrong thing if you don't do a ton of compatibility checking.
- znpy 6y ago
  > The article seems to be more targeted at people who will grab a $3.50 gas station cable and expect it to charge their phone at 18w and laptop at 65w. In their defense, all those cable look exactly the same. I haven't gone through the whole usb-c/thunderbolt reading yet [1], so I might as well make the same mistake. And the fact that you're supposed to do the whole reading thing is probably the source of the problem. You see the same plug, same colors on the connector, you EXPECT to work the same. -- [1] Most of my devices are micro-usb, my Dell work laptop charges via thunderbolt/usb-c but I've got the Dell dock for that.
  - 6y ago
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sandworm101 6y ago
>> The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. It must be nice to have all new things. I cannot afford to renew all my devices every few years, nor do I want too. Just looking around my room now, I probably have several thousand dollars worth of SDR dongles, battery packs, wifi adapters, raspberry bits and external drives for various projects. They are all on the old connectors/standards but work perfectly well. I have no intention of tossing everything because there is a new cable standard with go-faster stripes.
falcolas 6y ago
> Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either side, so that's basically life changing on its own. Yeah, be careful with that - for some MacBook Pro models charging from the left side will cause overheating and CPU throttling issues.
- paulirwin 6y ago
  I was curious about this so had to go digging. For those that want the citation: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/why-you-shouldnt-charge-macbook-pro-left-side/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/why-you-shouldnt-cha...
- chorsestudios 6y ago
  Does this still occur with the latest version of MacOS?
  - falcolas 6y ago
    I haven't heard of any change; my own setup is on the right. I will say that the corner of my computer where power is plugged in is uncomfortably hot.
    - spacedcowboy 6y ago
      Is it closed ? Because I've had my MBP plugged in for the last 6 months, driving 2 external 4K displays on one side, power-in on the other, and an OWC 10Gigabit dock in the last port. It's cool to touch, but I have the lid open (I use the LCD as the third display). I've read of people saying it gets hot when the lid is closed...
      - falcolas 6y ago
        Nope, it's open; I use it as a second monitor as well. It's also on a stand (Roost) that exposes probably 99% of the bottom of the computer to air as well. 2019 Macbook Pro 16". This is while the computer is under load (a Google Meet in Chrome, which is a power hungry little SOB). Also, the power is the only thing in the hot corner.
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ethbr0 6y ago
This is a simple problem, and there's a simple solution. Problem: Physical connectors previous encoded information about data/power transfer mode support. When USB C unified the physical connector, that information was lost. Solution: Mandate visually encoded supported standards on the USB cable in colored ring form, a la resistors. Make them plastic, so you can snip them off if the aesthetic bothers. But I should be able to reach into a bin of different USB C cables, and determine what each cable can and can't do. The law here for specifications teams should be: assume the consumer is never going to read your spec. Their ability to use the technology shouldn't be contingent on their doing so.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  > Physical connectors previous encoded information about data/power transfer mode support. When USB C unified the physical connector, that information was lost. this is not strictly true, at least for USB. you can use a USB 1.x to connect USB2/3 endpoints, but you will only get 1.x speeds. there were power-only cables that didn't transfer data at all. they are all physically compatible. unless you're familiar with the pin layout, there's no way to distinguish the different flavors of A ports.
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    And barrel jacks in power land. But suffice it to say, the situation was simpler / more user-friendly.
  - frosted-flakes 6y ago
    USB 3 connectors and ports were pretty much always blue.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > USB 3 connectors and ports were pretty much always blue. I’ve never seen a blue connector and ports in most laptops are just body coloured like in MacBooks.
namdnay 6y ago
I wish the iPhone used USB-C...
traveler01 6y ago
You have the Switch V1? Mine is the V2 and I even charged it with a powerbank and works just fine.
wslh 6y ago
I agree completely and we should blame Nintendo for the Nintendo Switch. Speaking about Thunderbolt via USB-C it is incredible to sit in my work desk, connect a single cable to the notebook and suddenly having a desktop computer with three external monitors, keyboard, mouse, and many other ports. I have not tried an eGPU yet but will be happier if thunderbolt evolves faster and gives more extensibility options to notebooks. I cannot forget to mention that another USB-C dongle that I use can also be connected to the mobile phone and converting the mobile phone into another desktop computer with mouse, keyboard, and an external monitor. Before USB-C and Thunderbolt you should acquire specific dongles for specific devices.
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  Until they manage to get Ethernet through that cable without a converter - it's no bueno. As for an eGPU user - the issue with eGPU is the cost of setup, but Thunderbolt docks are also stupid expensive(above $200 for one). I built my eGPU setup for $350(PowerColor+RX550), as a good Thunderbolt dock is in the range of $300.
  - ec109685 6y ago
    I have the Ethernet usb dongle hanging off my monitor, so it is one cable to my MacBook Pro.
dgellow 6y ago
> Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either side, so that's basically life changing on its own. :) You may want to read this stack exchange answer: https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/363933 https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/363933 > TLDR; If your MacBook Pro runs hot or shows a high % CPU for the kernel task, try charging on the right and not on the left.
CogentHedgehog 6y ago
Same, USB-C is one of those things that for me just works. I buy USB-PD chargers and cables from reputable brands, and everything just charges. When I use the cables for data transfer, it just works -- no muss or fuss like there were with some of the charge-only converter cables for charging micro-USB devices. Now if I were using Thunderbolt 3, yeah, you need a higher-end cable and there are restrictions on cable length for speed purposes (or moving up to a more expensive active cable). But I think that's a fair trade-off for being able to use that same cable for everything else as well. We cannot WAIT until our household says goodbye to the last couple devices with legacy ports and we can throw the last few converter dongles in a drawer. Looking at you, Apple and Amazon Kindle -- when are you going to get with the program and ditch your legacy Lightning and micro-USB ports respectively?
- texasbigdata 6y ago
  Ah so that’s why the thunderbolt cables are 1.5 feet :)
  - CogentHedgehog 6y ago
    Yes, the signal degrades more with longer cables which reduces the usable bandwidth. Short cables up to about 0.5m (1.5 feet) can use the full 40 Gbps. Slightly longer cables up to 1m can still carry enough signal for Thunderbolt 3 but usually at reduced speeds (20 Gbps). Above about 1m (3 feet) a passive cable usually isn't good enough for TB3 connections and you have to use a more expensive "active" cable. Active cables have built in signal-boosting circuits -- they're amplifying and re-transmitting signals, not just passing them over the wires.
- jorgekong 6y ago
  Which specific cables (or brands) would you recommend?
  - CogentHedgehog 6y ago
    Anker, Belkin, and Cable Matters cables are solid. For chargers, Anker and RavPower. Aukey can be good too. For other brands you need to check the specs carefully to see what the rated power and transmission speeds are (and take anything from a fly-by-night brand out of China with a grain of salt).
antman 6y ago
My HP Elite X2 G3 tablet charges with other usb chargers only when off. When on, a HP windows utility pop ups that says not a good charger and then stops charging.
jwr 6y ago
Every discussion about USB-C quickly devolves into one group saying that it's a mess and pointing out all the intricacies and complexities, and another group saying "hey, I'm charging my stuff and it's fine!". USB-C was not supposed to be a glorified power cable. It promised much, much more, and manufacturers annoyingly restricting the port choices on newer laptops made that promise even more prominent. It has failed miserably on that promise.
- thelean12 6y ago
  I don't think the public knows or cares about any promises made. The vast majority of people are extremely happy that they can charge their laptop and their phone with the same cable. That's a major improvement from previous generations of chargers and has absolutely simplified the situation. And it's only getting better.
originalvichy 6y ago
Did you read the article? USB-C is not just a charging cable. I can understand you are happy, but your happiness could have been achieved with ubiquitous micro-USB with extra power delivery capability. The real disappointment is that USB-C could unite power and data delivery so that you won’t have to think about using a different shaped input for display/power. Due to patchy support this is not possible. It is explained in the article well.
INTPenis 6y ago
Yeah I have to say I share that sentiment. Now when I travel I use my Lenovo charger to charge my Android phones and tablet. Unfortunately work provides me with an iPhone so that's still one more charger. One more piece of plastic floating around the ocean in the future. God damnit apple...
- untog 6y ago
  I got a USB-C to lightning cable and it works great.
- robotresearcher 6y ago
  A usb-c to Lightning cable would get you to to a single charger. Also allows charging phone at low current from laptop in a pinch.
slykar 6y ago
If you ignore laptops, then Micro-B basically did charge everything in my house. The introduction of USB-C made things worse, because now I have to deal with both connectors.
- dathinab 6y ago
  Only until everything is USB-C ;-} Like in 10 years when due to innovation we start migration to another standard...
maxcan 6y ago
This is also my experience. Quest, iPad, MacBook, headphones etc can all mostly use the same chargers. Really all I need to track is that the MacBook needs a thicker cable and this pretty much solves any compatibility issues. This article feels like an engineer complaining like: "the spec is too long for me to read and is therefore bad."
petters 6y ago
I felt the same way as you until my laptop was destroyed by a third-party charger.
notacoward 6y ago
This doesn't seem like a factor in favor of USB-C. I regularly charge any of two dozen USB device in my house from any of a half dozen smart chargers, using too many micro-B cables to count, and it has been months since I spent even one moment thinking about compatibility among them all. This kind of setup was already common. My USB-C devices are the ones I need to worry about. All of the chargers I've bought (not the ones that came with devices) have at least one USB-C port, but the charger I have in my bedroom is too weak for the laptop I'm using in the family room right now, which is precisely why they stay in different rooms. And then there's the Switch, as others have mentioned. At least for the devices I own, USB-C is far more differentiated/fragmented than USB-B. The only thing that's unified is the physical connector. ETA: I see a lot of other comments saying they don't have problems. Almost to a one, they seem to be Mac users talking about fairly static setups, and recommend "top of the line" (i.e. expensive) docks etc. I suggest that those experiences are even less representative of the typical non-HN user than my own.
- ziml77 6y ago
  Bringing up the Switch is unfair to USB-C. That would be like complaining about IEC C14 if Nintendo decided to make a connector that was just a hair larger and swapped hot and ground. Not being compliant is completely Nintendo's fault.
  - notacoward 6y ago
    > Bringing up the Switch is unfair to USB-C. Not really. Other interconnect standards have often (sadly not always) made it much harder for a small error like this to cause actual physical damage. USB-C made it easy, despite decades of learning on the subject. Yes, the fault is mostly Nintendo's, but USB-IF wasn't totally innocent either.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > Almost to a one, they seem to be Mac users talking about fairly static setups, and recommend "top of the line" (i.e. expensive) docks etc. You don't need "Top of the Line" anything, you just need to avoid random junk. Micro-USB isn't much better in this regard. The cheaper cables charge slower and have slower data transfer rates. The big difference here is many USB-C devices need a lot more power, so when you buy a crappy cable, it's a lot more of an issue.
x3haloed 6y ago
The versatility of the port is amazing. It’s very useful to be able to use the same cable to charge, move data, and push audio and video. However, it’s confusing AF. I feel like the first failure really is that it’s very unclear which ports and which cables support which features and how fast. You really have to know the technical differences when shopping. And you basically have to label every cable you buy, otherwise you have no idea what it’s capabilities are when you find it in your closet a year after buying it. The other huge issue is spec compliance. It’s not clear to the average consumer whether they’re buying spec-compliant devices or non-compliant device-killers.
astura 6y ago
Well, tfa mentions the Switch in particular as having potential issues with some chargers: >Other devices, like the Nintendo Switch, only partially support the standard, and some unsupported chargers have bricked devices, reportedly due to the Switch’s maximum voltage being exceeded. It also mentions issues with some devices/ports supporting "Power Delivery" and some not, and no way to tell them apart by just looking at them. So, yeah, you can get lucky and everything just works, but that's not universal.
- dathinab 6y ago
  Btw. It's only unsupported third party docks and chargers which themselves are not standard compiland.
muyuu 6y ago
Yea I agree. I'm super negative and I don't think I've ever liked any other USB before, but this standard is great. I only wish some of my older hardware had it, won't buy a new tablet without USB-C.
maxbaines 6y ago
Completely agree.
stormbrew 6y ago
There's a lot of telephone garbling going on in a lot of the replies to this thread about the switch. There's a really detailed post from one of the third party dock makers (genki) about all the specifics of the switch's usb-c PD implementation, including the fact that the switch uses a (nearly) bog standard usb-c pd controller chip: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_engineers_pov_on_the_3rd_party_dock_switch/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_e... Just because nintendo won't warrant use of third party docks or claim compatibility doesn't mean it's not compatible. Nor does any anecdotal experience of a usb-c charger frying a switch (I've fried a dell laptop's battery with a busted usb-c cable, does that mean dells aren't conformant?).
cortesoft 6y ago
Am I the only one who misses the Magsafe chargers? My kid just yesterday pulled my wife's laptop off her desk to the ground because she got caught in the charging cable. It was such a game changer to not bend plugs/break laptops when you got the cord stuck on something.. and we gave that all up just to have one port.
- yodsanklai 6y ago
  I do miss it but less than what I expected. My laptop has a good autonomy, so I'm less dependent on charging. Also, most of the charging happens when it's linked to the usb-c monitor where you can't trip on the cable (which is above the desk).
gfxgirl 6y ago
That's how I wish it was for me but it's not. So far the largest charger I've been able to find only has 2 USB-C plugs. So, switch + pixel + pocket wifi + macbook air Then I have lots different computers. My Macbook Air has USB-C, my MacBook Pro has USB-A, My brand new desktop PC has USB-A, my Razer laptop has both USB-A and USB-C, my Playstation has USB-A. I have USB-A SD-Card readers and USB-A hubs. Then, when If first got the Macbook Air I ended up going through 3 different USB-C hubs until I finally figured out how to buy one that actually supported 4k-60hz (the first 2 only supported 4k-30hz). Then later, I tried to use the Razer on a USB-C monitor. It worked but at some point the keyboard and mouse were flaky. Turned out apparently I needed a Thunderbolt HUB, not a USB-C hub (plugs are the same) so now I've gone through 4 hubs. you can read about the 4 or 5 kinds of possible USB-C hubs you might end up with if you're not careful. I have no idea how a non-techie figures this out. https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-video-through-usb-c-hub/ https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-... And then, I still have 3 iPhones that all use lighting (USB-A to lighting) and a few other devices at are USB-Micro (Kindle for example) And several external hard-drives that are all that USB-3 wide plug to USB-A I'm sure by the time USB-D arrives USB-C will be great and all my cables will be USB-C on both ends and all my devices will only have USB-C sockets but right now it's a mess
barkingcat 6y ago
The problem is that they all probably can't share chargers or cables. Be aware that cables of different specs of usb-c are known to burst into fire when you use them for charging or to connect devices of different specs.
mcguire 6y ago
I haven't experienced USB-C much yet, but I have a good tangle of micro-USB cables that I need to label: * Some carry data, but won't charge things. * Some charge, but don't carry data. * Some charge at a higher amperage. Once upon a time, back when we used PS-2 connectors for keyboards and mice, we had the same problem. A keyboard wouldn't work in a mouse port (although they were the same physical connector), but a mouse might work in a keyboard port. Would it be wrong for me to say I would like to take an old PS-2 cable and strangle anyone who thinks this kind of antics are a good idea?
qwerty456127 6y ago
Sharing a charger isn't the only cool thing. Being able to attach an ordinary USB-C thumb drive to an iPad is a very useful too. If only computers (including MacBooks and desktop PCs) had more (2 is never enough) full-featured (Thunderbolt-enabled) USB-C ports (and didn't give up built-in SD card readers) that would really be awesome.
markstos 6y ago
The mess isn't about you, it's about the rest of us. Old USB printer cables have a "USB-A" end that goes into your computer and the USB-B end for the printer. You can't mess that up. I've recently handled multiple support calls from a family member due to USB-C confusion. I have to explain "This USB port is only for power, this USB port is for power and data. And don't try to try use HDMI through your USB hub because it some some strange problem. Use this other USB-C port only for your monitor". Maybe USB C is better for a few, but it's worse for many.
- kalleboo 6y ago
  I have an external IDE/SATA hard disk dock that has a USB A port on it... and comes with a USB A to A cable. It's absolutely insane. Stupid manufacturers will do stupid things with any standard. Nobody should be making a laptop with one USB C port that's power only and one that's power and data.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    Yeah, the worst part about USB C is that PD is optional. The electrical requirements of PD make it difficult to support on all ports though. If you have USB C ports on the left and right side you would have to route power from one side to the other. If your PCB traces have to support 5A over a long distance then things can get quite difficult.
ketamine__ 6y ago
Same, I'm a big fan. The only issue I have is that 1) the power bricks aren't cheap, small, and powerful enough and 2) charging things through my MBP doesn't work well because the wattage (60) isn't high enough. The external hard drive won't work if my phone is plugged in as well. GaN chargers are pretty cool. I found the Hyper Juice to be a shit product though. Still waiting for Anker to release some high watt chargers.
m463 6y ago
that is just the physical properties of the cabling. basically just power.
thayne 6y ago
Did you actually read the article? The problem is that not all usb-c ports/cables/chargers are the same, but they all look the same.

blablabla123 6y ago

Same for me, also that I can use the same docking station for my work and my private laptop is awesome. Of course the support for the (quite complex) standard is not fully there yet, so one cannot blindly buy or connect new stuff.

buzzerbetrayed 6y ago

Did you not read the article? Because your response doesn’t address any of the issues brought up in the article. Mainly that all the usb-c cables you sprinkle across your house might not have the same functionality. And if you plug your switch in to one it might charge it, while another will not.

Drew_ 6y ago
> Mainly that all the usb-c cables you sprinkle across your house might not have the same functionality. If you buy decent cables they all do. The reality is that whatever devices you're plugging the cables into might not support every feature you're looking for. Instead of blaming poorly built devices or ignorant consumers it must be the shape of the cable that's the problem surely.
ilikehurdles 6y ago
Exactly! This has been my experience. I bought 3 different USB-C cables for my keyboard until I found one that let the keyboard work as the original did. I have a few usb-c cables that will charge my gopro and a few that won't. I like the form factor, but the standard itself is a mess.
duxup 6y ago
> Because your response doesn’t address any of the issues brought up in the article. Not the issues, but it addresses the gist of it. For that person (and me) it has simplified things. If simplifying your life is part of the measurement, it has for some folks.
leetcrew 6y ago
> Mainly that all the usb-c cables you sprinkle across your house might not have the same functionality. this is a problem if you expect things to be like USB2 where you can collect all these random cables and power blocks and use them interchangeably. this wasn't always true with USB2 anyway, with all the out of spec "fast charge" implementations. there are a lot of optional features and speed tiers for USB3, which is certainly annoying. but you have the option of buying a bunch of cables that support everything you need/use and scatter those around your house. they will work with any standards compliant equipment, which is really the best you can hope for with any standard.
- jedimastert 6y ago
  > this is a problem if you expect things to be like USB2 where you can collect all these random cables and power blocks and use them interchangeably. this wasn't always true with USB2 anyway, with all the out of spec "fast charge" implementations. Silly question time, why would we not expect that?
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    I mean you can expect whatever you want. what I'm saying is the beautiful past where all USB cables were perfectly interchangeable never existed. in the last generation we had power-only cables, data-only (although this is out of spec, I believe), and various out of spec fast charging implementations. if you pick up a random usb charging block and micro-usb cable, there was never any guarantee that it would transfer data to your phone, fast charge it, or even charge it at all.
    - tpxl 6y ago
      Those cables were distinct upon physical inspection (missing pins), which USB C cables are not.
      - leetcrew 6y ago
        sure, if you're familiar with the pinout, you can tell whether the data or power lines are completely missing. there was still no guarantee that any arbitrary cable would work with whatever fast charge implementation you were using. you would likely get 0.5A trickle charging at least, but the device could also just refuse to charge at all. from my perspective, USB-IF has taken a bunch of random shit that manufacturers were going to do anyway and made them proper (though optional) parts of the spec. I understand it didn't work out perfectly, but I don't really understand why they are getting so much flak for it. I'd much rather have a bunch of cables and devices that at least try to meet an official spec than to have a bunch of proprietary implementations that make no effort at being compatible.
jeremymcanally 6y ago
I did read it, and for my use cases, I don't have issues. I understand others' use cases may not match mine, but this situation seems basically like any other connectivity standard in the history of technology. Except this time, the universality for what most people use it for has actually managed to catch on. :)
- pwinnski 6y ago
  "Universality" that involves many people finding that cables that look identical don't actually work the same way. Interesting definition there. Universality of physical plug, I guess?
  - Dahoon 6y ago
    I'm not sure I see how this is an interesting definition. How is it different from HDMI or LAN cables? There the cables also define capability so "cables that look identical don't actually work the same way".
    - lmm 6y ago
      > How is it different from HDMI or LAN cables? There the cables also define capability so "cables that look identical don't actually work the same way". In theory yes. In practice most of the cables are good enough for most users - e.g. in a home LAN cables are probably 10m at most, so even a cat5 cable can probably give people a connection that's as fast as their internet uplink. If the problems with USB-C are common enough to impact normal users (and I think lack of thunderbolt falls into that category) then that's a major difference in practice.
  - inopinatus 6y ago
    Buy shitty products, get shitty outcomes. This is not the fault of the connector standard.
- moogleii 6y ago
  It sounds like you've experienced either just pure luck or that you've carefully selected your components (which degrades the "universality" claim), at least for the Switch, since it doesn't fully implement PD and can short out.
Rebelgecko 6y ago
FWIW I've never had an issue with the cables. The only time USB-C has bitten me is when trying to charge a device using a charger meant for a lower tier of hardware. I've never had any issues with USB-PD chargers. For example my MBP charger works on everything. My phone chargers don't work at all on my cheap Chinese laptop, but they'll trickle charge my MBP (which has honestly been a lifesaver). Even my $20 battery pack will get me a few hours of laptop life
- cactus2093 6y ago
  Exactly, and honestly it's pretty intuitive: big devices need big chargers. For me, my laptop is the only device I own that needs a big 100w adapter, everything else can share smaller adapters. And one big benefit of the current USB-C era is that 15-18W power adapters are more ubiquitous than ever, and compact enough that there's almost never any reason to use a smaller one anymore. And more and more devices are not coming with their own power adapter these days, which is better for the environment and simplifies my life, every usb-c device I own can be charged by the same chargers and will charge quickly. It's way better than each device coming with its own adapter of arbitrary shape that may or may not be able to be plugged in without blocking the adjacent socket on the wall or power strip, with seemingly arbitrary max power output, with an arbitrary choice of using usb A/mini/micro connector.
Latty 6y ago
Those problems are hardly unique to USB-C. With Micro-USB I had charging cables that didn't have data lines in them, Kindle power adaptors that didn't offer enough output for my phone to charge off, and non-standard devices that didn't follow the spec and only worked with certain stuff. In my experience, it works well enough I've actively only been buying USB-C stuff where it is at all possible to do so for a while now. It feels like these complaints are inevitable to me: a spec with no flexibility would become redundant too quickly or cost far too much to implement in most devices to ever see widespread adoption.
- inopinatus 6y ago
  This is not much harder the the issue of 8P8C connectors, which some (incorrectly) call RJ45. Depending on cable configuration, pinout, wall plate and structured wiring system, that 8P8C might be usable (or not) for multiple different types of data networking, from the assorted ethernet speeds (some of which may successfully autonegotiate, but not all) to E1 to token ring, or for a serial console, or delivering power and audio to a remote speaker, or hdmi-over-utp, or even -48V telephony, and let's not even get started on the only-subtly-different but actually incompatible RJ45S connector, or people sticking RJ11 plugs in 8P8C ports. And yet the world has coped with this proliferation. I have experienced none of the issues described in the article despite possessing 30+ USB Type-C devices. The article above simply comes across as an overwhelming refusal to take any personal responsibility for technical purchasing choices.
  - kalleboo 6y ago
    My UPS uses 8P8C for it's USB port! I can't imagine how many cents they saved over using a USB B port (but I do know that I sure as hell don't want to lose that weird RJ45 to USB cable, who knows if the pinout matches whatever cable I can find on amazon)
cwhiz 6y ago
This is a problem with essentially any cable. The only difference between old and new is that the new problem is with a single plug instead of a handful of plugs.

cowmoo728 6y ago

Except the switch doesn't actually use usb-c pd, it's a different proprietary thing that uses a usb-c connector.

greenshackle2 6y ago
This is such a terrible design decision.
- oblio 6y ago
  $$$
dathinab 6y ago
No it uses USB-C PD! It's just incorrectly implements the switch to an alternate mode which it uses for it's duck which causes 3rd party docks to fry switches. It's generally more sensitive in that alternate mode as it draws more power. The dock itself is a different matter. But the switch does implant USB-C PD just fine. I'm frequently charging it with my laptop charger and many people do so as far as I know. It's also why using a power bank with the switch works just fine.

vr46 6y ago

Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. All my apple kit works fine off the Apple chargers, but I do have an external hard drive that has mixed Thunderbolt 3/USB 3.1 ports, which are absolutely not the same. I love the port, but the standard just hasn't caught up and when a company like Nintendo flouts it anyway, you have a big problem.

izacus 6y ago
> Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. It has worked reliably with pretty much every charger I threw at it so this sounds like one of those urban myths.
- majewsky 6y ago
  I have a 2018 Switch and it works well with all chargers I've tested so far (mostly Apple and Lenovo besides the one that came with the Swift). My guess is that the problems that existed in the original hardware were fixed in a subsequent hardware revision.
  - tdsamardzhiev 6y ago
    So does mine, 3 years and counting.
  - vr46 6y ago
    Maybe the problems were fixed, but not by the time mine was ordered from Amazon on 8 December 2018. It charged fine with an Anker and Apple charger for, well, until it went pop this July. I'm glad yours is working fine, and it does come with a two-year warranty, but this was considered damage. From Nintendo's repair service: > Our engineers have inspected your Switch Console and found damage due to USB-C Connector Damage. Under our warranty policy we do not cover the cost of the repair for damaged items. A payment of £53.50 is required for us to complete the repair.

city41 6y ago

I could see it being great if all your devices are on it. But when you have usb-c, usb micro, usb mini and usb-b devices, the cables are a total pain. On top of the special pain usb-c brings onto itself. I have a cabinet that is basically dedicated to usb cables, using organizers to keep them all accessible and searchable. That does help a lot. But I feel like having to go that far is a sign usb was not as well thought out as it could have been.

syshum 6y ago
Well that just means you are not replacing all your devices every 12 months like the manufacturers want....
- city41 6y ago
  Heh :) a lot of current devices I buy still use usb micro. I'm mostly dealing with modern fpga recreations of old game consoles like analogue.co's products. Maybe usb-c has some kind of licensing cost that makes it prohibitive for smaller companies?

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thrower123 6y ago

Micro-USB was better. Especially since there are still so many existing devices that used micro-USB ports.

himlion 6y ago
No, those cables are not durable at all. Cheap or expensive, they don't last more than a few months with heavy use.
- ben-schaaf 6y ago
  The couple daily use cables I've got have lasted years. Only cables I've had break regularly are headphone cables.
- Vrondi 6y ago
  Yet, over the years, I've only had one or two break. I have years-old Motorola micro usb cables that still work perfectly, and which are still in use. They were not all garbage.
izacus 6y ago
Only if you forget that there were at least 10 differente incompatible standards on how the device told the charger to pull more power.
- thrower123 6y ago
  What is different about that with USB-C?
  - VLM 6y ago
    Microusb usually didn't burn out or brick the device
  - floatboth 6y ago
    Obviously: PD existing. And most devices, even those that have custom modes (e.g. OnePlus Warp), support PD too.

izacus 6y ago

It gets even better when you find out you can get a HDMI/Power dock that works with Switch, laptop, phone and can provide video and charge them all without having to carry 15 cables with you. Can it be confusing? Yes. But it's a hellova improvement from bunch of disjoint cable standards we had before.

dx87 6y ago

Nintendo says you shouldn't use anything except 1st party cables with the Switch. There were articles a couple of years ago talking about Switches being bricked. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-switch-consoles-keep-frying/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-sw...

oblio 6y ago
This is on Nintendo being jerks. Just because web server X doesn't implement the standard correctly, that does not make TCP or HTTP bad.
- chungus_khan 6y ago
  No, but the average consumer doesn't care who's actually at fault. They're just confused when their stuff doesn't work/is flaky. There is a difference between the standard in theory and the standard in practice, and I've seen a remarkable number of ordinary people very confused about whether various things actually work with each other, and a lot of it out in the real world is very poorly communicated and out-of-spec.
dathinab 6y ago
Note that most bricking was with 3rd party docks (due to the Switch not so standard conform HDMIish + charging alternate mode). Bricking your switch with a "pure" charger mostly only happens with but fully standard conform chargers used with the wrong cable. Most (all?) Hight voltage/amper chargers like e.g. for laptops work just fine on the switch. Through it's a bit more troublesome for the dock.
outworlder 6y ago
Why are they saying 'bricked' when they mean they were destroyed? 'Bricking' is normally a firmware issue. Do we say that a car was 'bricked' when we trash it in an accident?
- imtringued 6y ago
  Bricking is generally considered to be invisible destruction that renders a device useless but still cosmetically intact. People used to call these things paperweights with a hint of irony because there are lots of fancy paperweight designs. Nowadays people view such devices to be as useful as bricks. They are heavy and take up space but they are still intact and jokingly enough you could actually use them as construction material. A car that was destroyed in an accident would not be considered bricked because it has sustained cosmetic damage. You can't use it for it's aesthetics alone. e.g. in a museum. A Tesla car where the battery charger has died could be considered a bricked car though.

sq_ 6y ago

100% agree with you on how convenient USB-C can make things. Being able to carry one 60-90w brick with multiple USB-C PD outputs and charge pretty much all of my devices off of it is amazing. On the other hand, I would say that all of us here on HN probably aren't the target audience for this article. Collectively, I'd say HN readers are likely to understand that different USB-C bricks, cables, and devices are going to support different things and research our purchases accordingly. The article seems to be more targeted at people who will grab a $3.50 gas station cable and expect it to charge their phone at 18w and laptop at 65w.

mnky9800n 6y ago
But I think this is a problem when the elkjøp guy gave my wife the wrong usb-c cable for charging her phone.
- sq_ 6y ago
  Part of me thinks we're just in a very long, drawn-out adoption process for all of this. Things seem to have gotten much better since the first USB-C only Macbooks and other devices started to arrive, so my hope is that we'll reach a point within another few years where one can pretty confidently purchase a cable or charger and assume it'll work with a standard device. It certainly does suck for now that you can end up with the wrong thing if you don't do a ton of compatibility checking.
znpy 6y ago
> The article seems to be more targeted at people who will grab a $3.50 gas station cable and expect it to charge their phone at 18w and laptop at 65w. In their defense, all those cable look exactly the same. I haven't gone through the whole usb-c/thunderbolt reading yet [1], so I might as well make the same mistake. And the fact that you're supposed to do the whole reading thing is probably the source of the problem. You see the same plug, same colors on the connector, you EXPECT to work the same. -- [1] Most of my devices are micro-usb, my Dell work laptop charges via thunderbolt/usb-c but I've got the Dell dock for that.
- 6y ago

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sandworm101 6y ago

>> The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. It must be nice to have all new things. I cannot afford to renew all my devices every few years, nor do I want too. Just looking around my room now, I probably have several thousand dollars worth of SDR dongles, battery packs, wifi adapters, raspberry bits and external drives for various projects. They are all on the old connectors/standards but work perfectly well. I have no intention of tossing everything because there is a new cable standard with go-faster stripes.

falcolas 6y ago

> Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either side, so that's basically life changing on its own. Yeah, be careful with that - for some MacBook Pro models charging from the left side will cause overheating and CPU throttling issues.

paulirwin 6y ago
I was curious about this so had to go digging. For those that want the citation: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/why-you-shouldnt-charge-macbook-pro-left-side/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/why-you-shouldnt-cha...
chorsestudios 6y ago
Does this still occur with the latest version of MacOS?
- falcolas 6y ago
  I haven't heard of any change; my own setup is on the right. I will say that the corner of my computer where power is plugged in is uncomfortably hot.
  - spacedcowboy 6y ago
    Is it closed ? Because I've had my MBP plugged in for the last 6 months, driving 2 external 4K displays on one side, power-in on the other, and an OWC 10Gigabit dock in the last port. It's cool to touch, but I have the lid open (I use the LCD as the third display). I've read of people saying it gets hot when the lid is closed...
    - falcolas 6y ago
      Nope, it's open; I use it as a second monitor as well. It's also on a stand (Roost) that exposes probably 99% of the bottom of the computer to air as well. 2019 Macbook Pro 16". This is while the computer is under load (a Google Meet in Chrome, which is a power hungry little SOB). Also, the power is the only thing in the hot corner.

deleted 6y ago

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ethbr0 6y ago

This is a simple problem, and there's a simple solution. Problem: Physical connectors previous encoded information about data/power transfer mode support. When USB C unified the physical connector, that information was lost. Solution: Mandate visually encoded supported standards on the USB cable in colored ring form, a la resistors. Make them plastic, so you can snip them off if the aesthetic bothers. But I should be able to reach into a bin of different USB C cables, and determine what each cable can and can't do. The law here for specifications teams should be: assume the consumer is never going to read your spec. Their ability to use the technology shouldn't be contingent on their doing so.

leetcrew 6y ago
> Physical connectors previous encoded information about data/power transfer mode support. When USB C unified the physical connector, that information was lost. this is not strictly true, at least for USB. you can use a USB 1.x to connect USB2/3 endpoints, but you will only get 1.x speeds. there were power-only cables that didn't transfer data at all. they are all physically compatible. unless you're familiar with the pin layout, there's no way to distinguish the different flavors of A ports.
- ethbr0 6y ago
  And barrel jacks in power land. But suffice it to say, the situation was simpler / more user-friendly.
- frosted-flakes 6y ago
  USB 3 connectors and ports were pretty much always blue.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > USB 3 connectors and ports were pretty much always blue. I’ve never seen a blue connector and ports in most laptops are just body coloured like in MacBooks.

namdnay 6y ago

I wish the iPhone used USB-C...

traveler01 6y ago

You have the Switch V1? Mine is the V2 and I even charged it with a powerbank and works just fine.

wslh 6y ago

I agree completely and we should blame Nintendo for the Nintendo Switch. Speaking about Thunderbolt via USB-C it is incredible to sit in my work desk, connect a single cable to the notebook and suddenly having a desktop computer with three external monitors, keyboard, mouse, and many other ports. I have not tried an eGPU yet but will be happier if thunderbolt evolves faster and gives more extensibility options to notebooks. I cannot forget to mention that another USB-C dongle that I use can also be connected to the mobile phone and converting the mobile phone into another desktop computer with mouse, keyboard, and an external monitor. Before USB-C and Thunderbolt you should acquire specific dongles for specific devices.

JAlexoid 6y ago
Until they manage to get Ethernet through that cable without a converter - it's no bueno. As for an eGPU user - the issue with eGPU is the cost of setup, but Thunderbolt docks are also stupid expensive(above $200 for one). I built my eGPU setup for $350(PowerColor+RX550), as a good Thunderbolt dock is in the range of $300.
- ec109685 6y ago
  I have the Ethernet usb dongle hanging off my monitor, so it is one cable to my MacBook Pro.

dgellow 6y ago

> Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either side, so that's basically life changing on its own. :) You may want to read this stack exchange answer: https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/363933 https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/363933 > TLDR; If your MacBook Pro runs hot or shows a high % CPU for the kernel task, try charging on the right and not on the left.

CogentHedgehog 6y ago

Same, USB-C is one of those things that for me just works. I buy USB-PD chargers and cables from reputable brands, and everything just charges. When I use the cables for data transfer, it just works -- no muss or fuss like there were with some of the charge-only converter cables for charging micro-USB devices. Now if I were using Thunderbolt 3, yeah, you need a higher-end cable and there are restrictions on cable length for speed purposes (or moving up to a more expensive active cable). But I think that's a fair trade-off for being able to use that same cable for everything else as well. We cannot WAIT until our household says goodbye to the last couple devices with legacy ports and we can throw the last few converter dongles in a drawer. Looking at you, Apple and Amazon Kindle -- when are you going to get with the program and ditch your legacy Lightning and micro-USB ports respectively?

texasbigdata 6y ago
Ah so that’s why the thunderbolt cables are 1.5 feet :)
- CogentHedgehog 6y ago
  Yes, the signal degrades more with longer cables which reduces the usable bandwidth. Short cables up to about 0.5m (1.5 feet) can use the full 40 Gbps. Slightly longer cables up to 1m can still carry enough signal for Thunderbolt 3 but usually at reduced speeds (20 Gbps). Above about 1m (3 feet) a passive cable usually isn't good enough for TB3 connections and you have to use a more expensive "active" cable. Active cables have built in signal-boosting circuits -- they're amplifying and re-transmitting signals, not just passing them over the wires.
jorgekong 6y ago
Which specific cables (or brands) would you recommend?
- CogentHedgehog 6y ago
  Anker, Belkin, and Cable Matters cables are solid. For chargers, Anker and RavPower. Aukey can be good too. For other brands you need to check the specs carefully to see what the rated power and transmission speeds are (and take anything from a fly-by-night brand out of China with a grain of salt).

antman 6y ago

My HP Elite X2 G3 tablet charges with other usb chargers only when off. When on, a HP windows utility pop ups that says not a good charger and then stops charging.

jwr 6y ago

Every discussion about USB-C quickly devolves into one group saying that it's a mess and pointing out all the intricacies and complexities, and another group saying "hey, I'm charging my stuff and it's fine!". USB-C was not supposed to be a glorified power cable. It promised much, much more, and manufacturers annoyingly restricting the port choices on newer laptops made that promise even more prominent. It has failed miserably on that promise.

thelean12 6y ago
I don't think the public knows or cares about any promises made. The vast majority of people are extremely happy that they can charge their laptop and their phone with the same cable. That's a major improvement from previous generations of chargers and has absolutely simplified the situation. And it's only getting better.

originalvichy 6y ago

Did you read the article? USB-C is not just a charging cable. I can understand you are happy, but your happiness could have been achieved with ubiquitous micro-USB with extra power delivery capability. The real disappointment is that USB-C could unite power and data delivery so that you won’t have to think about using a different shaped input for display/power. Due to patchy support this is not possible. It is explained in the article well.

INTPenis 6y ago

Yeah I have to say I share that sentiment. Now when I travel I use my Lenovo charger to charge my Android phones and tablet. Unfortunately work provides me with an iPhone so that's still one more charger. One more piece of plastic floating around the ocean in the future. God damnit apple...

untog 6y ago
I got a USB-C to lightning cable and it works great.
robotresearcher 6y ago
A usb-c to Lightning cable would get you to to a single charger. Also allows charging phone at low current from laptop in a pinch.

slykar 6y ago

If you ignore laptops, then Micro-B basically did charge everything in my house. The introduction of USB-C made things worse, because now I have to deal with both connectors.

dathinab 6y ago
Only until everything is USB-C ;-} Like in 10 years when due to innovation we start migration to another standard...

maxcan 6y ago

This is also my experience. Quest, iPad, MacBook, headphones etc can all mostly use the same chargers. Really all I need to track is that the MacBook needs a thicker cable and this pretty much solves any compatibility issues. This article feels like an engineer complaining like: "the spec is too long for me to read and is therefore bad."

petters 6y ago

I felt the same way as you until my laptop was destroyed by a third-party charger.

notacoward 6y ago

This doesn't seem like a factor in favor of USB-C. I regularly charge any of two dozen USB device in my house from any of a half dozen smart chargers, using too many micro-B cables to count, and it has been months since I spent even one moment thinking about compatibility among them all. This kind of setup was already common. My USB-C devices are the ones I need to worry about. All of the chargers I've bought (not the ones that came with devices) have at least one USB-C port, but the charger I have in my bedroom is too weak for the laptop I'm using in the family room right now, which is precisely why they stay in different rooms. And then there's the Switch, as others have mentioned. At least for the devices I own, USB-C is far more differentiated/fragmented than USB-B. The only thing that's unified is the physical connector. ETA: I see a lot of other comments saying they don't have problems. Almost to a one, they seem to be Mac users talking about fairly static setups, and recommend "top of the line" (i.e. expensive) docks etc. I suggest that those experiences are even less representative of the typical non-HN user than my own.

ziml77 6y ago
Bringing up the Switch is unfair to USB-C. That would be like complaining about IEC C14 if Nintendo decided to make a connector that was just a hair larger and swapped hot and ground. Not being compliant is completely Nintendo's fault.
- notacoward 6y ago
  > Bringing up the Switch is unfair to USB-C. Not really. Other interconnect standards have often (sadly not always) made it much harder for a small error like this to cause actual physical damage. USB-C made it easy, despite decades of learning on the subject. Yes, the fault is mostly Nintendo's, but USB-IF wasn't totally innocent either.
ogre_codes 6y ago
> Almost to a one, they seem to be Mac users talking about fairly static setups, and recommend "top of the line" (i.e. expensive) docks etc. You don't need "Top of the Line" anything, you just need to avoid random junk. Micro-USB isn't much better in this regard. The cheaper cables charge slower and have slower data transfer rates. The big difference here is many USB-C devices need a lot more power, so when you buy a crappy cable, it's a lot more of an issue.

x3haloed 6y ago

The versatility of the port is amazing. It’s very useful to be able to use the same cable to charge, move data, and push audio and video. However, it’s confusing AF. I feel like the first failure really is that it’s very unclear which ports and which cables support which features and how fast. You really have to know the technical differences when shopping. And you basically have to label every cable you buy, otherwise you have no idea what it’s capabilities are when you find it in your closet a year after buying it. The other huge issue is spec compliance. It’s not clear to the average consumer whether they’re buying spec-compliant devices or non-compliant device-killers.

astura 6y ago

Well, tfa mentions the Switch in particular as having potential issues with some chargers: >Other devices, like the Nintendo Switch, only partially support the standard, and some unsupported chargers have bricked devices, reportedly due to the Switch’s maximum voltage being exceeded. It also mentions issues with some devices/ports supporting "Power Delivery" and some not, and no way to tell them apart by just looking at them. So, yeah, you can get lucky and everything just works, but that's not universal.

dathinab 6y ago
Btw. It's only unsupported third party docks and chargers which themselves are not standard compiland.

muyuu 6y ago

Yea I agree. I'm super negative and I don't think I've ever liked any other USB before, but this standard is great. I only wish some of my older hardware had it, won't buy a new tablet without USB-C.

maxbaines 6y ago

Completely agree.

stormbrew 6y ago

There's a lot of telephone garbling going on in a lot of the replies to this thread about the switch. There's a really detailed post from one of the third party dock makers (genki) about all the specifics of the switch's usb-c PD implementation, including the fact that the switch uses a (nearly) bog standard usb-c pd controller chip: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_engineers_pov_on_the_3rd_party_dock_switch/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_e... Just because nintendo won't warrant use of third party docks or claim compatibility doesn't mean it's not compatible. Nor does any anecdotal experience of a usb-c charger frying a switch (I've fried a dell laptop's battery with a busted usb-c cable, does that mean dells aren't conformant?).

cortesoft 6y ago

Am I the only one who misses the Magsafe chargers? My kid just yesterday pulled my wife's laptop off her desk to the ground because she got caught in the charging cable. It was such a game changer to not bend plugs/break laptops when you got the cord stuck on something.. and we gave that all up just to have one port.

yodsanklai 6y ago
I do miss it but less than what I expected. My laptop has a good autonomy, so I'm less dependent on charging. Also, most of the charging happens when it's linked to the usb-c monitor where you can't trip on the cable (which is above the desk).

gfxgirl 6y ago

That's how I wish it was for me but it's not. So far the largest charger I've been able to find only has 2 USB-C plugs. So, switch + pixel + pocket wifi + macbook air Then I have lots different computers. My Macbook Air has USB-C, my MacBook Pro has USB-A, My brand new desktop PC has USB-A, my Razer laptop has both USB-A and USB-C, my Playstation has USB-A. I have USB-A SD-Card readers and USB-A hubs. Then, when If first got the Macbook Air I ended up going through 3 different USB-C hubs until I finally figured out how to buy one that actually supported 4k-60hz (the first 2 only supported 4k-30hz). Then later, I tried to use the Razer on a USB-C monitor. It worked but at some point the keyboard and mouse were flaky. Turned out apparently I needed a Thunderbolt HUB, not a USB-C hub (plugs are the same) so now I've gone through 4 hubs. you can read about the 4 or 5 kinds of possible USB-C hubs you might end up with if you're not careful. I have no idea how a non-techie figures this out. https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-video-through-usb-c-hub/ https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-... And then, I still have 3 iPhones that all use lighting (USB-A to lighting) and a few other devices at are USB-Micro (Kindle for example) And several external hard-drives that are all that USB-3 wide plug to USB-A I'm sure by the time USB-D arrives USB-C will be great and all my cables will be USB-C on both ends and all my devices will only have USB-C sockets but right now it's a mess

barkingcat 6y ago

The problem is that they all probably can't share chargers or cables. Be aware that cables of different specs of usb-c are known to burst into fire when you use them for charging or to connect devices of different specs.

mcguire 6y ago

I haven't experienced USB-C much yet, but I have a good tangle of micro-USB cables that I need to label: * Some carry data, but won't charge things. * Some charge, but don't carry data. * Some charge at a higher amperage. Once upon a time, back when we used PS-2 connectors for keyboards and mice, we had the same problem. A keyboard wouldn't work in a mouse port (although they were the same physical connector), but a mouse might work in a keyboard port. Would it be wrong for me to say I would like to take an old PS-2 cable and strangle anyone who thinks this kind of antics are a good idea?

qwerty456127 6y ago

Sharing a charger isn't the only cool thing. Being able to attach an ordinary USB-C thumb drive to an iPad is a very useful too. If only computers (including MacBooks and desktop PCs) had more (2 is never enough) full-featured (Thunderbolt-enabled) USB-C ports (and didn't give up built-in SD card readers) that would really be awesome.

markstos 6y ago

The mess isn't about you, it's about the rest of us. Old USB printer cables have a "USB-A" end that goes into your computer and the USB-B end for the printer. You can't mess that up. I've recently handled multiple support calls from a family member due to USB-C confusion. I have to explain "This USB port is only for power, this USB port is for power and data. And don't try to try use HDMI through your USB hub because it some some strange problem. Use this other USB-C port only for your monitor". Maybe USB C is better for a few, but it's worse for many.

kalleboo 6y ago
I have an external IDE/SATA hard disk dock that has a USB A port on it... and comes with a USB A to A cable. It's absolutely insane. Stupid manufacturers will do stupid things with any standard. Nobody should be making a laptop with one USB C port that's power only and one that's power and data.
- imtringued 6y ago
  Yeah, the worst part about USB C is that PD is optional. The electrical requirements of PD make it difficult to support on all ports though. If you have USB C ports on the left and right side you would have to route power from one side to the other. If your PCB traces have to support 5A over a long distance then things can get quite difficult.

ketamine__ 6y ago

Same, I'm a big fan. The only issue I have is that 1) the power bricks aren't cheap, small, and powerful enough and 2) charging things through my MBP doesn't work well because the wattage (60) isn't high enough. The external hard drive won't work if my phone is plugged in as well. GaN chargers are pretty cool. I found the Hyper Juice to be a shit product though. Still waiting for Anker to release some high watt chargers.

m463 6y ago

that is just the physical properties of the cabling. basically just power.

thayne 6y ago

Did you actually read the article? The problem is that not all usb-c ports/cables/chargers are the same, but they all look the same.