31 ms·

Students Left Behind by Remote Learning

163 points by mitchbob 6y ago

bioinformatics 6y ago
Which one is it then? Bad online learning or bad reopening plan? https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/08/17/the-woeful-inadequacy-of-school-reopening-plans https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/08/17/the-woeful-ina...
- nynx 6y ago
  Can it not be both?
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  1. How are those two things mutually exclusive? Re-opening plans were inadequate and also remote learning leaves students behind. There's "No Silver Bullet" in software, and educating the country's children in a pandemic is infinitely more complicated than most software projects. (And, BTW, re-opening schools also isn't an either/or... but hard-line partisans on both sides are giving school district admins hell about any attempt at a hybrid approach) 2. Even if you think those two things are mutually exclusive, which they're not, why can't the New Yorker publish two different pieces on two different perspectives written by two different people (Alec MacGillis and Amy Davidson Sorkin)? It's a magazine, not a party platform.
  - jrumbut 6y ago
    This is such a common misunderstanding it might be time to consider labels or an explanation somewhere about the difference between reporting, commentary, and advocacy (among other categories). The New Yorker is particulary tricky because they blend all of the above along with fiction and satire.
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  They aren't mutually exclusive, of course. You seem to be reaching to find a contradiction, but why?
nineplay 6y ago
I've really re-evaluated my views of public vs. private schools during this crisis. I like a lot about our local public schools, but the district is strapped for cash and we are wondering if our kids will be back this school year. Meanwhile I'm browsing private schools websites and starting to notice all the opportunities my kids are missing. Private schools can offer so much more and I'm not sure why we never seriously looked into them. They cost, sure, but we could put the money together if we wanted to. There's been a steady outflow of parents from public to private around here and I don't think those kids are coming back. I don't know where this ends, but I don't think it ends well for public schools. It's a pity.
- tuna-piano 6y ago
  The real pity is that your local public school is likely spending a similar amount per student as the private schools![1] Our public school system spends a ton and seems to not get a good value for that spending. You can believe in government funded education without believing in government run education. After all, we have a food stamp program but few would argue for a government grocery store chain instead of food stamps. Why is it that the cities in America have such great restaurants but such poor schools? [1] https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2020/comm/school-system-spending.html https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2020/comm/scho...
  - majormajor 6y ago
    > Why is it that the cities in America have such great restaurants but such poor schools? This isn't really accurate, is it? Food options for the poor in America are pretty notably terrible. Nutrition-wise, it's not great for most of the middle class either. If you have a lot of money, you can find people to help you in America, which is true for both food and school. But I'd much rather be poor in a public school - I went to one - than be poor and have to rely on the bottom of the barrel of the US restaurant and food system. I haven't seen evidence that the private or public school system is particularly GOOD at overcoming a lot of the challenges that many kids face with poverty, but I also haven't seen the free market in the US be good at providing the poor with quality options in other areas. (Note also that there are many many countries with much more socialized government programs that also have good restaurants too! Ones that might sneer at the chain-heavy state of American restaurants in most US cities!)
anoncake 6y ago
> The desire to protect children may put their long-term well-being at stake. The virus barely affects children. It's never been about the children, only about protecting the welfare of old people at all costs, the youth be damned.
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  Are all people either children or the elderly?
  - anoncake 6y ago
    Youngish adults don't need protection.
- readams 6y ago
  Mostly it's driven by the teacher's unions. If we wanted to we could find ways to open the schools. It's just the people who feel the effects of the policy making are not the ones with a voice.
  - briandear 6y ago
    Teachers unions represent the best interests of teachers, not students or parents. That’s just a fact, but people often defer to the teachers’ unions on “what’s best.” An excellent bit of marketing on the part of the unions.
    - mar177 6y ago
      There is some initial evidence that teacher unions may influence school openings. From the abstract: Using data on the reopening decisions of 835 public school districts in the United States, we find that school districts in locations with stronger teachers’ unions are less likely to reopen in person even after we control semi-parametrically for differences in local demographic characteristics. These results are robust to four measures of union strength, various potential confounding characteristics, and a further disaggregation to the county level. We also do not find evidence to suggest that measures of COVID-19 risk are correlated with school reopening decisions. http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.3684867 http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.3684867
Ensorceled 6y ago
It sounds like the system was already failing these kids, that they were teetering on the brink of being left behind already. That's the actual tragedy here.
mhh__ 6y ago
From my experience so far, the combination of virtual lectures and quasi- living alone is depressing me to the point of very dark thoughts indeed. Academically I am good, sometimes very good, but I almost literally have no friends and probably won't be making any more this year at this rate.
- jimhefferon 6y ago
  I hope there is someone you could talk to?
- anonAndOn 6y ago
  FWIW, the isolation can be a source of opportunity as you are freed from ordinary distractions. Many years ago I read a bunch of the great works of literature during a long winter of discontent. None of the books were "assigned" or "required" as it was just me saying "OK, War and Peace, let's see what all the fuss is about." And some of those books are still some of my absolute favorites to this day. YMMV
- jointpdf 6y ago
  Hey friend, here are some random ideas for you to fend off loneliness. I’ve been doing all of these myself: - Have a quasi-solo dance party (quasi because you’re still dancing with these people, albeit in a different slice of space time): https://youtu.be/VZClzm3K__4 https://youtu.be/VZClzm3K__4 - Join a teamwork oriented MMO (WoW classic?) - Do a virtual happy hour with your family or friend(s) - Go for walks in the nearest nature area (you’ll probably run into people) or post up in a local park - Join a dating site like OKC, even just to browse or chat (and even setting your location to a faraway city)
  - swiley 6y ago
    I'm not too sure I would recommend online dating to someone who's depressed.
    - tachyonbeam 6y ago
      Seconded. You're going to get rejected, it's just par for the course, but it can be hard to handle if you're in a bad place. I personally only try to date when I feel emotionally stable. Can try something like chatroulette or omegle though.
Oricle 6y ago
Jews power grab once more, Same shit, different day!
twblalock 6y ago
School isn't just about education. It's also a social service. School gets children out of the home, in some cases dangerous homes. It provides supervision for children whose parents would not be capable or willing of doing so -- rich kids get nannies, poor kids get left alone all day. It provides opportunities for socialization and puts kids in contact with adults who can serve as role models and alert authorities in cases of abuse. The loss of these important social services matters a lot more than letting kids slip behind in math class by a year.
- k__ 6y ago
  This. I still can not understand how US citizens see home schooling as a good thing.
  - rllearneratwork 6y ago
    because a lot of public schools are horrible. All you need to know about my neighbourhood's elementary school (Bay Area, 20 min by bicycle from Apple's new campus) is that it has metal detector on entrance. Why? Gang activity. In freaking elementary school. School rating is 4/10 if you are curious.
    - ponker 6y ago
      And a 3br house there is probably $1.4 million.
      - rllearneratwork 6y ago
        I'll just say that I paid $14,000 in property taxes alone last year
        ponker 6y ago
        Lol Right there with ya buddy.
    - zo1 6y ago
paxys 6y ago
> The desire to protect children may put their long-term well-being at stake. It's a good article but this is a needlessly click-baity thesis. The content of the article itself doesn't agree with it. The "desire to protect children" isn't the cause of the problem, it is the lack of internet and home/food security among kids in so many of these communities, as the article describes very well. They were never well served by the public school system even before the pandemic. Teachers unions were right to be wary of school reopening plans, especially since they are being driven by political needs and shouted out in rallies. Meanwhile the government is denying funding for PPE for teachers. And something else the article frustratingly ignores is that safety of children is dependent on the safety of their caregivers, who are often elderly and have more underlying health conditions in disadvantaged communities.
- zaroth 6y ago
  These kids’ primary challenge isn’t a lack of Internet. It’s a lack of parents willing and able to keep them safe and well fed. This problem is highly exacerbated when the public school these children would escape to 5 days a week—where they would be safe, fed, and educated—gets shut down. School, for example, is where they will meet caring adults that possibly will build up enough of a rapport with them that they might even disclose the abuse they could be subjected to at home. Child abuse reports have dropped precipitously since COVID lockdowns began. While there may be a small number of districts which can’t provide a half-dozen reusable masks and some hand sanitizer to each teacher, PPE is by and large not the issue causing teachers to protest returning to classrooms. Many teachers desperately want to return to classrooms where they can actually teach and interact with the students they adore, versus the mind numbing insanity of trying to corral 20-30 elementary school students over a Zoom call. The “safety of children” cannot be measured on a single axis. There is no one measure which is ethically dominant of all others. This is the “train-switch” dilemma writ large. It’s important to discuss and research the prevalence and magnitude of the myriad destructive and deadly consequences of closing schools. Most importantly, while a minority of students may live with high-risk family members, the vast majority do not and the people in the position to make the delicate and deliberate decision of whether their children should attend in-person classes are the parents/guardians of each family.
rllearneratwork 6y ago
There are two core issues with public schools in USA: (a) the funding is based on property taxes from school's neighborhood. This just fuels inequality loop: bad schools -> low property values -> low funding. Instead, the state should collect property taxes, not counties and distribute funding proportionally to students' population (b) It is close to impossible to evaluate (and fire bad) teachers in public schools Until (a) and (b) are addressed a very tiny fraction of public schools can be of acceptable quality. The pandemic just amplifies things and makes problems more urgent to address.
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  > Instead, the state should collect property taxes, not counties and distribute funding proportionally to students' population This was done in Kansas. Here's what happens: 1. Taxes are driven into the ground (...why would wealthy suburbs vote to tax themselves if that $ is just going to be redistributed away from their schools?). 2. Districts in wealthy suburbs run fundraisers that haul in six figures for breakfast (literally, and regularly). Those donations then pay for additional instructional staff, materials, books, etc. 3. Schools that can't make six figures on charity brunches for the band, golf house galas for the football team, and dinner parties for the STEM teacher are screwed. This isn't a systems problem, it's a values/morality problem. If you change the system and don't change people's values then they will find a way to route around your system. > It is close to impossible to evaluate (and fire bad) teachers in public schools It's possible to fire bad teachers. Harder than it should be, but absolutely 100% possible. Evaluation is the more difficult problem, but I'm not sure source of funding has anything to do with that.
  - asdasfasdfasdf 6y ago
    I think fundraisers should be banned as part of the process... or perhaps max contributions should be capped per student. They almost universally benefit the kids who have better connected and wealthier parents. One immediate example: a local school had a fundraiser for portable air cleaners for each classroom to help reduce the risk of covid. The poorer schools have nothing, and of course the poorer schools are in poorer neighborhoods where there are more minorities that are already disproportionately impacted by covid.
renewiltord 6y ago
This does not look like a problem we can solve with technology. I do not think we can get pricing down through tech improvements to the point where each child can receive services and devices to be hooked up to a remote learning service. This is a social problem.
- primrose 6y ago
  I think you're thinking about this from the opposite perspective. We spend ungodly amounts of money on education. For instance Detroit Public Schools spend $14,259 per student per year. There is more than enough money to provide services.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    No, that's what I mean. I can't do anything about this. I can't make tools that fit into what's left after they spend all their money. They have to do something else somewhere else. I can't help. Not claiming they don't have any money.
nemo44x 6y ago
If you’ve read my posts here I am not a bleeding heart lefty, but hear me out. Ban private schools (or pay-for schools) while also banning teachers unions. It sounds horrible and is probably unconstitutional. But I believe it would make for a better future. If the affluent were forced to use the public school system you could be damn sure it would have unbelievable funding either through taxes or really successful brownie sales. By forcing society to learn together we cut the bullshit and actually create this so called “equity” by ensuring schools are truly funded and more importantly looked after by the people that care. And either see the value in or have the time/resources to see to it the schools are successful. By banning the unions we remove the politics from it all. Teachers become well paid on a performance basis. Independent, local, citizen committees are in charge of evaluating curriculum and ensuring teachers are not incompetent or activists. In essence, largely remove government oversight from schools. Let the community make the curriculum. Everyone has to use it. There’s probably a million problems here. But I think it’s a massive improvement over the current situation. Palo Alto, one of the wealthiest (and liberal!) places in America is shutting its high school down because everyone is rich enough to send their kids to private school. Insane.
- coredog64 6y ago
  Most states top up funding for poorer districts from state funds. Federal funding then comes in on top to pay for programs that directly target poor students. I think the issue is similar to college funding: There’s money, but it’s not reaching the instructional budget. https://apps.urban.org/features/school-funding-do-poor-kids-get-fair-share/ https://apps.urban.org/features/school-funding-do-poor-kids-...
  - nemo44x 6y ago
    I’m not sure it’s about the money 100% here. I think my main point is what happens if wealthy people who can afford to take very good care of their kids have to mix with everyone else? Can we get their values and ethics imbued? You can be assured they wouldn’t let the place rot. My question is: are the upper middle class which are statistically very liberal willing to agree to send their kids to the same schools as the kids they claim to fight for? I think not but if so I do think our society would be better as they’d make sure the schools are good.
annoyingnoob 6y ago
I have two kids in private school and one in public school. My kids in private school are now going in person 5 days a week and have about 5 hours per day of school work. My kid in public school does everything remotely and may at some point go back for two half-days per week, she has about 3 hours school work per day (and has yet to be challenged by any of the work). They were all home doing school remotely for a few weeks, that was really difficult for everyone.
spicyramen 6y ago
By reading this article I can assume that most of us are privileged enough to have a decent cellphone/internet connection and most likely good education. Is important to put ourselves in the shoes of parents and kids which find in school a refugee and an opportunity to grow, learn and socialize
Ntrails 6y ago
Covid response is drastically increasing the gap between the haves and the have-nots, and I see no prospect of it being addressed. At some point we're going to ask when the price being paid by large swathes of society is worth it.
- stronglikedan 6y ago
  I think we're past the point of being worth it, and it's now devolved into a political game that's hurting people more than the virus ever could. I can't help but to ponder how differently things would be handled, were this not an election year. It's a sad state of affairs to be sure.
  - Ntrails 6y ago
    I'm in the UK, and the situation is not dissimilar - indeed I posit that it is true for most developed countries.

163 points by mitchbob 6y ago

Which one is it then? Bad online learning or bad reopening plan? https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/08/17/the-woeful-inadequacy-of-school-reopening-plans https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/08/17/the-woeful-ina...

nynx 6y ago
Can it not be both?
throwawaygh 6y ago
1. How are those two things mutually exclusive? Re-opening plans were inadequate and also remote learning leaves students behind. There's "No Silver Bullet" in software, and educating the country's children in a pandemic is infinitely more complicated than most software projects. (And, BTW, re-opening schools also isn't an either/or... but hard-line partisans on both sides are giving school district admins hell about any attempt at a hybrid approach) 2. Even if you think those two things are mutually exclusive, which they're not, why can't the New Yorker publish two different pieces on two different perspectives written by two different people (Alec MacGillis and Amy Davidson Sorkin)? It's a magazine, not a party platform.
- jrumbut 6y ago
  This is such a common misunderstanding it might be time to consider labels or an explanation somewhere about the difference between reporting, commentary, and advocacy (among other categories). The New Yorker is particulary tricky because they blend all of the above along with fiction and satire.
happytoexplain 6y ago
They aren't mutually exclusive, of course. You seem to be reaching to find a contradiction, but why?

nineplay 6y ago

I've really re-evaluated my views of public vs. private schools during this crisis. I like a lot about our local public schools, but the district is strapped for cash and we are wondering if our kids will be back this school year. Meanwhile I'm browsing private schools websites and starting to notice all the opportunities my kids are missing. Private schools can offer so much more and I'm not sure why we never seriously looked into them. They cost, sure, but we could put the money together if we wanted to. There's been a steady outflow of parents from public to private around here and I don't think those kids are coming back. I don't know where this ends, but I don't think it ends well for public schools. It's a pity.

tuna-piano 6y ago
The real pity is that your local public school is likely spending a similar amount per student as the private schools![1] Our public school system spends a ton and seems to not get a good value for that spending. You can believe in government funded education without believing in government run education. After all, we have a food stamp program but few would argue for a government grocery store chain instead of food stamps. Why is it that the cities in America have such great restaurants but such poor schools? [1] https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2020/comm/school-system-spending.html https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2020/comm/scho...
- majormajor 6y ago
  > Why is it that the cities in America have such great restaurants but such poor schools? This isn't really accurate, is it? Food options for the poor in America are pretty notably terrible. Nutrition-wise, it's not great for most of the middle class either. If you have a lot of money, you can find people to help you in America, which is true for both food and school. But I'd much rather be poor in a public school - I went to one - than be poor and have to rely on the bottom of the barrel of the US restaurant and food system. I haven't seen evidence that the private or public school system is particularly GOOD at overcoming a lot of the challenges that many kids face with poverty, but I also haven't seen the free market in the US be good at providing the poor with quality options in other areas. (Note also that there are many many countries with much more socialized government programs that also have good restaurants too! Ones that might sneer at the chain-heavy state of American restaurants in most US cities!)

anoncake 6y ago

> The desire to protect children may put their long-term well-being at stake. The virus barely affects children. It's never been about the children, only about protecting the welfare of old people at all costs, the youth be damned.

happytoexplain 6y ago
Are all people either children or the elderly?
- anoncake 6y ago
  Youngish adults don't need protection.
readams 6y ago
Mostly it's driven by the teacher's unions. If we wanted to we could find ways to open the schools. It's just the people who feel the effects of the policy making are not the ones with a voice.
- briandear 6y ago
  Teachers unions represent the best interests of teachers, not students or parents. That’s just a fact, but people often defer to the teachers’ unions on “what’s best.” An excellent bit of marketing on the part of the unions.
  - mar177 6y ago
    There is some initial evidence that teacher unions may influence school openings. From the abstract: Using data on the reopening decisions of 835 public school districts in the United States, we find that school districts in locations with stronger teachers’ unions are less likely to reopen in person even after we control semi-parametrically for differences in local demographic characteristics. These results are robust to four measures of union strength, various potential confounding characteristics, and a further disaggregation to the county level. We also do not find evidence to suggest that measures of COVID-19 risk are correlated with school reopening decisions. http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.3684867 http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.3684867

Ensorceled 6y ago

It sounds like the system was already failing these kids, that they were teetering on the brink of being left behind already. That's the actual tragedy here.

mhh__ 6y ago

From my experience so far, the combination of virtual lectures and quasi- living alone is depressing me to the point of very dark thoughts indeed. Academically I am good, sometimes very good, but I almost literally have no friends and probably won't be making any more this year at this rate.

jimhefferon 6y ago
I hope there is someone you could talk to?
anonAndOn 6y ago
FWIW, the isolation can be a source of opportunity as you are freed from ordinary distractions. Many years ago I read a bunch of the great works of literature during a long winter of discontent. None of the books were "assigned" or "required" as it was just me saying "OK, War and Peace, let's see what all the fuss is about." And some of those books are still some of my absolute favorites to this day. YMMV
jointpdf 6y ago
Hey friend, here are some random ideas for you to fend off loneliness. I’ve been doing all of these myself: - Have a quasi-solo dance party (quasi because you’re still dancing with these people, albeit in a different slice of space time): https://youtu.be/VZClzm3K__4 https://youtu.be/VZClzm3K__4 - Join a teamwork oriented MMO (WoW classic?) - Do a virtual happy hour with your family or friend(s) - Go for walks in the nearest nature area (you’ll probably run into people) or post up in a local park - Join a dating site like OKC, even just to browse or chat (and even setting your location to a faraway city)
- swiley 6y ago
  I'm not too sure I would recommend online dating to someone who's depressed.
  - tachyonbeam 6y ago
    Seconded. You're going to get rejected, it's just par for the course, but it can be hard to handle if you're in a bad place. I personally only try to date when I feel emotionally stable. Can try something like chatroulette or omegle though.

Oricle 6y ago

Jews power grab once more, Same shit, different day!

twblalock 6y ago

School isn't just about education. It's also a social service. School gets children out of the home, in some cases dangerous homes. It provides supervision for children whose parents would not be capable or willing of doing so -- rich kids get nannies, poor kids get left alone all day. It provides opportunities for socialization and puts kids in contact with adults who can serve as role models and alert authorities in cases of abuse. The loss of these important social services matters a lot more than letting kids slip behind in math class by a year.

k__ 6y ago
This. I still can not understand how US citizens see home schooling as a good thing.
- rllearneratwork 6y ago
  because a lot of public schools are horrible. All you need to know about my neighbourhood's elementary school (Bay Area, 20 min by bicycle from Apple's new campus) is that it has metal detector on entrance. Why? Gang activity. In freaking elementary school. School rating is 4/10 if you are curious.
  - ponker 6y ago
    And a 3br house there is probably $1.4 million.
    - rllearneratwork 6y ago
      I'll just say that I paid $14,000 in property taxes alone last year
      - ponker 6y ago
        Lol Right there with ya buddy.
  - zo1 6y ago

paxys 6y ago

> The desire to protect children may put their long-term well-being at stake. It's a good article but this is a needlessly click-baity thesis. The content of the article itself doesn't agree with it. The "desire to protect children" isn't the cause of the problem, it is the lack of internet and home/food security among kids in so many of these communities, as the article describes very well. They were never well served by the public school system even before the pandemic. Teachers unions were right to be wary of school reopening plans, especially since they are being driven by political needs and shouted out in rallies. Meanwhile the government is denying funding for PPE for teachers. And something else the article frustratingly ignores is that safety of children is dependent on the safety of their caregivers, who are often elderly and have more underlying health conditions in disadvantaged communities.

zaroth 6y ago
These kids’ primary challenge isn’t a lack of Internet. It’s a lack of parents willing and able to keep them safe and well fed. This problem is highly exacerbated when the public school these children would escape to 5 days a week—where they would be safe, fed, and educated—gets shut down. School, for example, is where they will meet caring adults that possibly will build up enough of a rapport with them that they might even disclose the abuse they could be subjected to at home. Child abuse reports have dropped precipitously since COVID lockdowns began. While there may be a small number of districts which can’t provide a half-dozen reusable masks and some hand sanitizer to each teacher, PPE is by and large not the issue causing teachers to protest returning to classrooms. Many teachers desperately want to return to classrooms where they can actually teach and interact with the students they adore, versus the mind numbing insanity of trying to corral 20-30 elementary school students over a Zoom call. The “safety of children” cannot be measured on a single axis. There is no one measure which is ethically dominant of all others. This is the “train-switch” dilemma writ large. It’s important to discuss and research the prevalence and magnitude of the myriad destructive and deadly consequences of closing schools. Most importantly, while a minority of students may live with high-risk family members, the vast majority do not and the people in the position to make the delicate and deliberate decision of whether their children should attend in-person classes are the parents/guardians of each family.

rllearneratwork 6y ago

There are two core issues with public schools in USA: (a) the funding is based on property taxes from school's neighborhood. This just fuels inequality loop: bad schools -> low property values -> low funding. Instead, the state should collect property taxes, not counties and distribute funding proportionally to students' population (b) It is close to impossible to evaluate (and fire bad) teachers in public schools Until (a) and (b) are addressed a very tiny fraction of public schools can be of acceptable quality. The pandemic just amplifies things and makes problems more urgent to address.

throwawaygh 6y ago
> Instead, the state should collect property taxes, not counties and distribute funding proportionally to students' population This was done in Kansas. Here's what happens: 1. Taxes are driven into the ground (...why would wealthy suburbs vote to tax themselves if that $ is just going to be redistributed away from their schools?). 2. Districts in wealthy suburbs run fundraisers that haul in six figures for breakfast (literally, and regularly). Those donations then pay for additional instructional staff, materials, books, etc. 3. Schools that can't make six figures on charity brunches for the band, golf house galas for the football team, and dinner parties for the STEM teacher are screwed. This isn't a systems problem, it's a values/morality problem. If you change the system and don't change people's values then they will find a way to route around your system. > It is close to impossible to evaluate (and fire bad) teachers in public schools It's possible to fire bad teachers. Harder than it should be, but absolutely 100% possible. Evaluation is the more difficult problem, but I'm not sure source of funding has anything to do with that.
- asdasfasdfasdf 6y ago
  I think fundraisers should be banned as part of the process... or perhaps max contributions should be capped per student. They almost universally benefit the kids who have better connected and wealthier parents. One immediate example: a local school had a fundraiser for portable air cleaners for each classroom to help reduce the risk of covid. The poorer schools have nothing, and of course the poorer schools are in poorer neighborhoods where there are more minorities that are already disproportionately impacted by covid.

renewiltord 6y ago

This does not look like a problem we can solve with technology. I do not think we can get pricing down through tech improvements to the point where each child can receive services and devices to be hooked up to a remote learning service. This is a social problem.

primrose 6y ago
I think you're thinking about this from the opposite perspective. We spend ungodly amounts of money on education. For instance Detroit Public Schools spend $14,259 per student per year. There is more than enough money to provide services.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  No, that's what I mean. I can't do anything about this. I can't make tools that fit into what's left after they spend all their money. They have to do something else somewhere else. I can't help. Not claiming they don't have any money.

nemo44x 6y ago

If you’ve read my posts here I am not a bleeding heart lefty, but hear me out. Ban private schools (or pay-for schools) while also banning teachers unions. It sounds horrible and is probably unconstitutional. But I believe it would make for a better future. If the affluent were forced to use the public school system you could be damn sure it would have unbelievable funding either through taxes or really successful brownie sales. By forcing society to learn together we cut the bullshit and actually create this so called “equity” by ensuring schools are truly funded and more importantly looked after by the people that care. And either see the value in or have the time/resources to see to it the schools are successful. By banning the unions we remove the politics from it all. Teachers become well paid on a performance basis. Independent, local, citizen committees are in charge of evaluating curriculum and ensuring teachers are not incompetent or activists. In essence, largely remove government oversight from schools. Let the community make the curriculum. Everyone has to use it. There’s probably a million problems here. But I think it’s a massive improvement over the current situation. Palo Alto, one of the wealthiest (and liberal!) places in America is shutting its high school down because everyone is rich enough to send their kids to private school. Insane.

coredog64 6y ago
Most states top up funding for poorer districts from state funds. Federal funding then comes in on top to pay for programs that directly target poor students. I think the issue is similar to college funding: There’s money, but it’s not reaching the instructional budget. https://apps.urban.org/features/school-funding-do-poor-kids-get-fair-share/ https://apps.urban.org/features/school-funding-do-poor-kids-...
- nemo44x 6y ago
  I’m not sure it’s about the money 100% here. I think my main point is what happens if wealthy people who can afford to take very good care of their kids have to mix with everyone else? Can we get their values and ethics imbued? You can be assured they wouldn’t let the place rot. My question is: are the upper middle class which are statistically very liberal willing to agree to send their kids to the same schools as the kids they claim to fight for? I think not but if so I do think our society would be better as they’d make sure the schools are good.

annoyingnoob 6y ago

I have two kids in private school and one in public school. My kids in private school are now going in person 5 days a week and have about 5 hours per day of school work. My kid in public school does everything remotely and may at some point go back for two half-days per week, she has about 3 hours school work per day (and has yet to be challenged by any of the work). They were all home doing school remotely for a few weeks, that was really difficult for everyone.

spicyramen 6y ago

By reading this article I can assume that most of us are privileged enough to have a decent cellphone/internet connection and most likely good education. Is important to put ourselves in the shoes of parents and kids which find in school a refugee and an opportunity to grow, learn and socialize

Ntrails 6y ago

Covid response is drastically increasing the gap between the haves and the have-nots, and I see no prospect of it being addressed. At some point we're going to ask when the price being paid by large swathes of society is worth it.

stronglikedan 6y ago
I think we're past the point of being worth it, and it's now devolved into a political game that's hurting people more than the virus ever could. I can't help but to ponder how differently things would be handled, were this not an election year. It's a sad state of affairs to be sure.
- Ntrails 6y ago
  I'm in the UK, and the situation is not dissimilar - indeed I posit that it is true for most developed countries.