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Dream Vendor "Canna_Bars" Sentenced to Prison

257 points by a5withtrrs 6y ago

antihero 6y ago
What a colossal waste of time. Prosecuting someone for selling online something that is illegal in a lot of states. Mindblowing how stupid the war on drugs is.
- lysium 6y ago
  You mean ’legal‘ in a lot of states, don’t you?
  - amelius 6y ago
    At least they implied legal in some states.
- heavenlyblue 6y ago
  They have seized 30M in cash which means they will be able to fund their department with that cash. If taxpayers don’t fund the police, the police funds itself.
  - syspec 6y ago
    I'm super sure, that is exactly how play out......
    - heavenlyblue 6y ago
      But that money doesn’t get burnt and/or destroyed - it all goes into the budget. Same thing with confiscated cars in relation to drug deals which was quite recently in HN
- mixologic 6y ago
  Yeah, weed really shouldnt be a priority, and should be legalized nationwide, but... ```Canna_Bars, on Hansa, advertised pounds of methamphetamine. In the description of the product, Porras had claimed the methamphetamine came “direct from Mexico.”``` So, defintely not legal anywhere, nor is mass distribution of meth really something that is of benefit to anybody but the cartels he bought it from.
  - bunfunton 6y ago
    It’s a benefit for me. Meth is the only thing that treats my adhd without horrible side effects. 10mg / day orally. I can’t afford the outragous out of pocket price for desoxyn per month. Moreover, after initially being prescribed it and having great results, after moving I can’t find any psychiatrist willing to prescribe it because they are all terrified of the DEA. Thus I and many other stigmatized people directly benefit from cheap pure meth on the street. Thanks for reading about this casualty of the drug war.
    - mixologic 6y ago
      I was not aware that there were legitimate prescriptions for it. But it sounds to me like you're a casualty of the pharma industry more so than the drug war. The ratio of people that street meth helps to people that it harms is, by my SWAG, a very, very small number.
- sneak 6y ago
  There's no victim. Literally nobody was harmed here. "Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself; and where they are, they should be changed." - Jimmy Carter, 39th President of the United States
  - jmnicolas 6y ago
    > There's no victim. Literally nobody was harmed here. The IRS doesn't agree.
    - sneak 6y ago
      While the US spends the incredible quantities of tax money it does[1] waging neverending imperialistic war, there is a strong argument to be made that not giving the IRS money is the "least harm" option among the set of ("pay the IRS", "don't pay the IRS"). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... (Spoiler alert: the US spends more on its military, per capita, than any country in the world except Israel, and more than 2x as much as the next free, industrialized, developed country (Norway), and many multiples more than all other developed free countries.)
      - jmnicolas 6y ago
        The point I was trying to make is that you may see no harm as an individual, but the state has another viewpoint.
      - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
        Money taken by the IRS and money spent by Congress have almost no relationship. “Starve the beast” doesn’t work. It has had the effect of adding trillions to the debt we are passing on to our children and grandchildren though. Good job boomers! And I say that as a boomer myself.
    - jokethrowaway 6y ago
      The more money the IRS get the more money they waste or use to increase inequality. The US is already spending 13bln per day
- johnwheeler 6y ago
  He also had a prior felony, sold meth, sold Xanax, and had an Uzi. Not someone you’d want to date your daughter.
  - plutonorm 6y ago
    What people put into their bodies is their own business.
    - johnwheeler 6y ago
      So you say. I’m not obliged to agree with what you think should be legal or illegal.
      - henearkr 6y ago
        This has nothing to do with an abstract notion of morality. In our society, we look out for each other, if somebody is in distress, e.g. hurt on the side of the road, we help him, call an ambulance, he gets medical help. The fact that society makes huge efforts to save and cure people requiring medical attention, is at the root of the taboo on substances (or behaviors) that are unhealthy. Otherwise that would be a pure waste of resources for the society. At least that was the theory. In practice, you are free to drink booze until you pass out...
        johnwheeler 6y ago
        Yes, this is correct. I also don’t want my children to take drugs, and when you make things widely available, people use them more. You don’t have to look further than the opioid crisis to see that.
        bunfunton 6y ago
        So perhaps you should teach them not to use drugs instead of trying to control what other people are allowed to put into their own bodies.
- blunte 6y ago
  There is considerable information back from the 80s to suggest that the US war on drugs was actually a system to enable racial discrimination. Then some years later, the ear on drugs became associated with the growth of the private prison industry and it's lobbyists. Indeed I provide no references here because it is quite an involved topic and difficult to prove given the publicly available information.
  - pmachinery 6y ago
    The motivation for fictitious wars against bogeymen is to empower and bankroll law enforcement while diminishing the civil rights of citizens. Like the war on terror, the decades long war on drugs has been a roaring success.
    - wwright 6y ago
      The war on terror and war on drugs are closely related enough (through expansion of powers and economic policies such as allowing police to purchase old military equipment) that I wonder if it’s worth even treating them as separate things.
      - Jon_Lowtek 6y ago
        The war on drugs has a lot more raids in the own territory while the war on terror has more bombings in foreign territory, so for now there are some major differences. However once using predator and reaper drones against citizens without any judicial oversight is normalized, that difference will be gone.
        pc86 6y ago
        There are quite a few domestic impacts of the war on terror: domestic spying and the USA PATRIOT Act are two huge examples. In the context of "bankroll law enforcement while diminishing the civil rights of citizens" it's nearly identical to the war on drugs domestically.
- aristophenes 6y ago
  I can partially understand that point of view for marijuana (though I think it’s important for a functional society to obey laws, and get them changed if they aren’t working instead of just breaking them based on personal preference). But the guy had been selling methamphetamine too, which is life destroying poison. Our government provides costly services for people who are incapable of taking care of themselves, and that drug creates a bigger burden on those programs. Unless you also advocate for the removal of social safety nets I don’t see how you can justify thinking that the government shouldn’t try to limit drug use.
  - greenduck 6y ago
    Sure, but purely from the side of pragmatism, throwing people in jail isn't effective either. Treating them compassionately and giving them help for their problem works much better.
    - aaomidi 6y ago
      Also imagine saying the US has social safety nets.
      - aristophenes 6y ago
        The US has social safety nets.
  - darkmoney007 6y ago
    "Unless you also advocate for the removal of social safety nets" Trump is actively defunding Social Security and other programs.
  - non-entity 6y ago
    > But the guy had been selling methamphetamine too, which is life destroying poison. Time to arrest the liquor store owners?
    - jh86 6y ago
- draugadrotten 6y ago
  You are glossing over the illegal firearms. Would it really be better to wait for the murder.
  - antihero 6y ago
    The firearms were legal and licensed, however due to the drugs, they became illegal.
- ykevinator 6y ago
  I totally agree. Consenting buyer and seller, this is a leftover from the Mayflower (no dancing kind of thing). At some point the world should just stop wasting money on preventing things that humans want. Prostitution, pot, etc., will never be stopped because people want to buy and sell it.
- yboris 6y ago
  My favorite book on the topic is "Legalize This!" by Douglas Husak arguing that we should decriminalize all drugs. Surprisingly, the prohibition of alcohol in 1920's did not punish alcohol drinkers, just distributors. This model for drugs today would be a major improvement over the draconian treatment we have of the non-violent drug offenders. https://www.amazon.com/Legalize-This-Decriminalizing-Practical-Ethics/dp/1859843204 https://www.amazon.com/Legalize-This-Decriminalizing-Practic...
- hendersoon 6y ago
  Per the article, this guy also sold methamphetamine in large quantities on another site, so it isn't just about marijuana.
- AviationAtom 6y ago
  Think you meant to say legal
modin 6y ago
> The pictures included closeup pictures of Porras’ hand with visible fingerprint ridges. I thought via the title that they fingerprinted the lens used to take the photograph, not that there was literal pictures of fingers.
- usr1106 6y ago
  Of course as a SW engineer you think any kind of digitally embedded fingerprint first.
  - modin 6y ago
    Not digitally embedded as EXIF since it was uploaded to Imgur which AFAIK strip those out, but more like lens scratches and sensor noise, similar to [0]. [0]: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1634362 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1634362
- heelix 6y ago
  I strongly suspected that is what they did too. Got to wonder if they used the EXIF data to find him - linking photos of the pot and other social media/etc public shots, then used the fingerprints as parallel construction.
  - ficklepickle 6y ago
    Imgur strips exif by default. I agree it sounds like parallel construction. The article mentions they compared his finger prints to those from the picture. How did they know to check against his prints? Sounds like they already knew who it was, by means that aren't admissible as evidence.
    - Jabbles 6y ago
      Imgur certainly doesn't display EXIF by default, but are you sure it doesn't retain it such that it could be obtained by a warrant?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sneak 6y ago
The amount of resources that the US federal government will use to pursue ridiculously long sentences (that frequently involve torture[1]) against people who did not victimize a single person is absolutely insane to me. The prohibition on the possession and sale of drugs must come to an end, and weapons charges should never, ever be brought against anyone who didn't use weapons to commit a crime or otherwise perpetrate violence/cause harm. Literally no violence and no victim is claimed by the state here, and yet he's going to spend almost six years in prison, even after a plea deal. This is well over a half of a million dollars in tax money, just to house/feed/medicate him during that time (perhaps as much as twice that in the event of medical conditions), not counting the resources spent within the courts, the prosecution offices, the clerks, and the provision of public defenders (if any). It's probably closer to a million tax dollars, all told. Had he not taken the plea? He could have received a much, much longer sentence: 20+ years. This would then be upwards of 4 or 5 million dollars spent by the state. Is this justice? More importantly, is this a good use of the public's resources? A million+ US tax dollars could instead be used to prevent violent crime, or to house the homeless, or any number of other purposes which very easily surpass the benefit or usefulness of the imprisonment of people who do not victimize or harm others. [1]: in the form of exceptionally long periods of forced solitary confinement, which causes permanent physiological and psychological damage.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  I personally want drug-dealing gun-wielding ex-felons to be put in prison. Plus he only got 5 years, which isn't a long sentence in the US.
  - bunfunton 6y ago
    I personally don’t want somebody supplying goods to customers who want them, coming together in a consensual transaction jailed. Where one person then decides to alter their own brain chemistry with their own consent. 5 years not long? Ok.
    - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
syspec 6y ago
> We know, thanks to documents from other Operation Dark Gold cases, that Porras had used a money laundering service controlled by Homeland Security Investigations Geeze
booleandilemma 6y ago
I wish more resources were spent on law enforcement at the local level, fighting real crime. They could have more police patrolling the streets and subways, deterring assaults[0] and daylight shootings[1]. Does anyone really care that this drug dealer is locked up? Is anyone safer now? Do I have to worry any less about getting mugged on the subway at night? Of course people are calling to defund the police, and if that happens I’ll have to be more worried. [0]: https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-homeless-man-arrested-women-shove-penn-station-video-20200919-mvusy4lbk5fm5iqzis5samcdae-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-homeless-m... [1]: https://nypost.com/2020/09/08/three-injured-in-broad-daylight-nyc-shooting/ https://nypost.com/2020/09/08/three-injured-in-broad-dayligh...
- redisman 6y ago
  There are also magnitudes more destructive things they could be hunting on the dark web. This is like the lowest bar of illegality going on
- mleonhard 6y ago
  The drug dealer was selling meth. Meth destroys people. And meth addiction leads to many robberies and burglaries. I think punishing this meth dealer is a net positive for society.
  - Sevrene 6y ago
    Someone will just fill the void left by this vendor and no harm will be removed. It wont be a net positive at all. In the end, all there will be is another person ruined. I don't think it's right to punish a pub for all problems caused by alcohol intoxication, but I do think punishing a pub for serving alcohol negligently is okay. My understanding is one of the main reasons methamphetamines are so widely used and sold is because meth is cheap and easy to make compared to safer possible alternatives. That indicates to me that this seems like a market that needs regulation, not prohibition. I'm not saying meth should be legal, I'm saying the drug market can be regulated to reduce harm. If that regulation means disallowing certain substances that do cause excessive harm, that's a good thing too.
mschwaig 6y ago
'So we have these fingerprints, and we think they belong to this guy we already have prints on file for. Can you give us a yes/no answer if they match up?' seems like a pretty low bar for evidence. Seems like the kind of thing that could heavily skew towards telling you what you want to hear. Maybe someone else knows if it actually works like that, the writeup made it sound like that to me. I'm just some guy who saw a tv documentatary at some point about how forensic techniques that worked like that got called into question when conflicting DNA evidence started turning up.
- zapdrive 6y ago
  My understanding from skimming the article is, they only identified the suspect from fingerprints. After identification they did surveillance and gathered additional evidence.
  - mschwaig 6y ago
    > The FDL [HSI Forensic Document Laboratory] returned the request after conducting a comparative analysis of the friction ridge detail of the fingerprints from the Imgur album and the fingerprint samples taken after police had arrested Porras for a different crime. The fingerprints in the Imgur album matched the prints they already had on file for Porras. It doesn't sound like that to me, but maybe I am misunderstanding what a comparative analysis would entail.
    - zapdrive 6y ago
      It doesn't say they arrested him immediately after the match. If you read the article they say they placed multiple orders and would surveill him after every order. That's how they gathered evidence.
      - mschwaig 6y ago
        I did read the article. I am interested in how forensic evicende like that is gathered in general and how reliable it is in general. It's debatable what role that fingerprint played in that investigation, but I did not want to call into question that particular outcome. For example my impression is that DNA evidence is very reliable while for example optically matching hairs or matching bite marks, which I think was done in the past in a similar 'does A match B setup' is fairly unreliable. It's interesting to me both from both the 'what bar does evidence have to meet to make sure there are no false convictions' side as well as the 'what are the privacy implications of posting pictures with fingerprints in them' side.
jasoneckert 6y ago
What I find the most interesting about this article is that someone was able to be identified using a picture of their fingerprints. Thus, any photos posted online could be scoured for identification information. And with computer vision technologies becoming more mature, it means that regular video footage of people could identify them the same way in seconds or less using a wide variety of different visual traits. The implications of this on individual privacy are immense.
- hunter2_ 6y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if writing style could also be used. I tend to use certain constructions and vocabulary across many of my comments. Some are under a handle with little or no link to my real identity, and some are quite the opposite. I expect someone could deanonymize the former based on correlation of writing style with the latter.
  - 3131s 6y ago
    That's called stylometry and it can be surprisingly accurate under the right conditions.
    - gruez 6y ago
      What’s the actual scientific evidence backing this? I’m asking because various forensic techniques that were previously perceived to be reliable (fingerprints, handwriting analysis, bite marks) turned out to be total bunk.
      - SpelingBeeChamp 6y ago
        Evidence that fingerprint analysis is "total bunk?" That one is news to me.
        mattmanser 6y ago
        Well, not total bunk, but less reliable than generally believed: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228442-600-miscarriage-of-justice-points-to-fingerprint-flaws/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228442-600-miscarri... Then again a lot of forensic techniques seem to fall into the same category: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150512-can-we-trust-forensic-science https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150512-can-we-trust-for... A lot of the problems come from human bias and over-stating the accuracy of tests at trial.
varispeed 6y ago
It's incredible that so much tax payer money and human resources are devoted to defend pharmaceutical companies monopoly on drugs. By his inventory it sounds like his customers would likely be people with chronic conditions that have strong presence of pharmaceutical lobby to prevent legal sales of cannabis and probably cannot afford Xanax through legal means because the cost of getting medical help is extortionate.
- grugagag 6y ago
  That wouldn't be too far from truth. 75 percent of people started their addiction from prescription medication who then turn to the black market to maintain their habit. The big pharma is loosing a large profit. They heavily opposed marijuana legalization, their role in the war on drugs is quite clear to me.
ourmandave 6y ago
There's useful links at the bottom of the page, like the Darknet Market's Noobs Bible. =) Hello and welcome to the Darknetmarkets bible for buyers. The buyer's DNM bible aims to be a complete guide that covers all steps that users have to take in order to buy securely from darknetmarkets. In case you're thinking about launching your criminal career or whatever.
- non-entity 6y ago
  In what world does purchasing from a DNM make you a career criminal? What if I buy a completely legal item?
  - unnouinceput 6y ago
    None. Doubt you find legal items there though. Maybe you find legal items in some parts but illegal in others, like marijuana is now in US. Better have all papers prepared to prove you made the purchase in a legal state though.
    - bunfunton 6y ago
      Good thing that the government has to prove our guilt instead of we having to prove our innocence.
themark 6y ago
Things I learned: Use the spell checker. Randomly misspell different words.
- SpelingBeeChamp 6y ago
  Check out Anonymouth: https://github.com/psal/anonymouth https://github.com/psal/anonymouth (How do you hyperlink text here?)
ddelt 6y ago
I’m reading a lot of comments here which tackle the thorny topic of decriminalization of drugs in the US that we have historically over-prosecuted. I happen to agree with this sentiment as well. But almost everyone here arguing for a middle ground agrees that things won’t change because all three branches of the US seem determined to keep a hard-line or zero tolerance policy on drugs, even when legalization and medical supervision, creation of new business and exploration of safer alternatives and research into benefits of said drugs are brought up as arguments and are summarily dismissed because “reasons”. What are some actual, practical steps we all can take towards making decriminalization a reality?
mabbo 6y ago
> Porras also admitted possessing a Model A uzi-style pistol; a MAK 90; and an S&W .44 caliber revolver. Although all weapons in Porras’ possession were legal firearms (the uzi-style pistol used post ban parts), a felony conviction for possession with intent precluded firearm ownership. Can someone explain this part to me. Was he previously convicted of a crime that precluded ownership? Or are the police able to take legal behaviour and change it to illegal behaviour later on?
- mjh2539 6y ago
  That he was previously convicted of felony possession with intent to distribute and that this precluded him from owning firearms is the only felicitous reading of that sentence.
- ciarannolan 6y ago
  Felons cannot own guns in the US. There's nothing complicated about it.
  - notassigned 6y ago
    Well they can, they just aren't allowed to...
  - garrettgrimsley 6y ago
    It's actually more complicated than that. In many states if you are convicted of a non-violent felony then at the end of your sentence your firearm rights are automatically restored. There are also the cases of pardons, expungements, and other restorations of civil rights. It varies by state, and while USC 922(g) outlaws firearm ownership possession by any felon, in practice the Federal courts look at whether the person has had their civil rights restored in the state of the alleged offense. When it comes to Federal charges, the prospect of amelioration is grim. In the Federal scenario, there is no expungement or pathway to restore your civil rights, but a pardon is possible. [0] There's also a discussion to be had about your and the legal definition of a "gun." For example, antique firearms such as some black powder rifles are specifically excepted [1] from the Federal legislation, but it could vary on a state by state basis. [0] https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1435-post-conviction-restoration-civil-rights https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual... [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921
Scoundreller 6y ago
So uhhhh, who’s building a deep fake generator that’ll transpose someone else’s fingerprints on a photo containing another hand?
cnst 6y ago
I've always been conscious of fingerprints potentially showing up in the photos. Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't after you. The same thing goes about keys -- it's amazing how people willingly share photos of their keys (with full signature and all) in full view.
- yboris 6y ago
  As far as I can tell (from other comments I came across in the past), lock-picking is such an easy thing, that going through the effort of creating a key from a photo is just a technical exercise, not a needed strategy. But I think you are likely talking about different keys than the ones that open physical doors ;)
- EmilioMartinez 6y ago
  Always wondered the same. More so, it baffles me that locksmiths use physical keys to copy new keys, propagating errors in the long run.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    They have the machines to cut keys to code spec but don't bother using them?
djinnandtonic 6y ago
I don't like to sound like I'm wearing tinfoil, but I'm not sure I believe this. We keep getting eyebrow-raising explanations for how computer criminals are caught; I always ask why bother? The American intelligence apparatus has compromised nearly all network traffic, from hardware backdoors on up. I assume the real way this person was detected and caught would be too embarrassing to admit, hence the fingerprints-from-a-photo cover.
- justanotheranon 6y ago
  Parallel Construction. it would be a national security catastrophe if it leaked that NSA was bulk decrypting all TLS/SSL traffic Internet-wide, by using a giant rainbow table of prime pair products for instant decryption without factoring, which was first proposed by Rabin back in 1997 at a NIST working group for establishing crypto standards. then NSA would lose the biggest SIGINT advantage since ENIGMA back in WW2. so instead, DEA is tasked with finding the dummies who post photos of their hands or bookshelves or who made n00b opsec mistakes like re-using handles or email accounts that connect to their real names. then DEA applies Parallel Construction to fabricate an investigative evidence chain to present to the Court. the Court never needs to know the truth. by the way, i personally do believe NSA is doing this, and all of Tor is as good as plain text to Ft Meade, because Rabin's idea really would scale with today's computing and storage capacities, and because that is exactly what i would do too. just what do you think Bluffdale is really for?
  - schoen 6y ago
    > by the way, i personally do believe NSA is doing this, and all of Tor is as good as plain text to Ft Meade, because Rabin's idea really would scale with today's computing and storage capacities, and because that is exactly what i would do too. I love to talk about how we can mitigate attacks on cryptography as much as the next person, but have you looked at what algorithms Tor uses? While they have a bunch of alarming legacy 1024-bit RSA and DH stuff, they also have Ed25519 identities and Curve25519 ECDH key exchange, plus running everything over TLS with various ciphersuites -- many of which are now ECDH. https://github.com/torproject/torspec/blob/master/tor-spec.txt https://github.com/torproject/torspec/blob/master/tor-spec.t... The type of handshake and key exchange is chosen by the client, and I think the default has been to prefer the ntor method for a long time.
iseanstevens 6y ago
A friend described that many in the government/military of Nazi Germany (including Hitler) were using significant amounts of amphetamines. Which in part lead to the atrocities of humanity that occurred. I can’t speak to the truth of this, and have definitely seen the US War on Drugs as a way to treat people unfairly based on race etc. I would certainly believe something similar is going on with the Trump administration. It would at least make a bit of sense as to why so little sense is being made. Anyways I thought it was an interesting theory so figured I would relay it here.
- lioeters 6y ago
  Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany by Norman Ohler, Shaun Whiteside (Translator) https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29429893-blitzed https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29429893-blitzed
userbinator 6y ago
Legal or otherwise, I've seen plenty of sellers holding their products while photographing, so I wonder why it's done --- personally I think it looks a bit unprofessional to have a hand or other things showing. Putting it on a table or otherwise featureless surface would look far better to a prospective buyer.
- thefounder 6y ago
  Maybe to make it look more real/personal/less generic.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  It gives the impression you didn't just stock photo it or reuse someone else's.
anewguy9000 6y ago
this guy should not be in jail. if he lived a little further north he could grow cannabis in his back yard. its wrong and its immoral but i guess the old white dudes in capes playing judge grew up thinking cannabis makes you into a rapist
- tartoran 6y ago
  They charged him on multiple charges * illegal possession of firearms, distributed a few kilos of Xanax and also lots of marijuana over 2 years or so. If he sold pot only he'd probably get a suspended sentence as a first time offense. I think he got a bit greedy, had he stopped short at some point and went on a year long vacation around the world he would probably be still free now.
  - anewguy9000 6y ago
    as i understood it the firearms were legally owned but became illegal because of the traficking charges
    - tartoran 6y ago
      Maybe you're right and I'm sure they 'overcharged' as much as they could, did take their time collecting a whole lot of evidence against him. But, he knew what he was doing. If he stopped at pot he probably would be on probation or something.
peter_d_sherman 6y ago
>"Vendors sent the money launderer a certain amount of Bitcoin and the money launderer mailed cash back to the vendor." My question: If Party A sends Party B Bitcoin, and Party B sends Party A money, and that transaction is considered "money laundering" -- then let's suppose Party A sends Party B gold (coins, bars, bullion, etc.), and Party B sends Party A money -- does that transaction also count as "money laundering"? ?

257 points by a5withtrrs 6y ago

What a colossal waste of time. Prosecuting someone for selling online something that is illegal in a lot of states. Mindblowing how stupid the war on drugs is.

lysium 6y ago
You mean ’legal‘ in a lot of states, don’t you?
- amelius 6y ago
  At least they implied legal in some states.
heavenlyblue 6y ago
They have seized 30M in cash which means they will be able to fund their department with that cash. If taxpayers don’t fund the police, the police funds itself.
- syspec 6y ago
  I'm super sure, that is exactly how play out......
  - heavenlyblue 6y ago
    But that money doesn’t get burnt and/or destroyed - it all goes into the budget. Same thing with confiscated cars in relation to drug deals which was quite recently in HN
mixologic 6y ago
Yeah, weed really shouldnt be a priority, and should be legalized nationwide, but... ```Canna_Bars, on Hansa, advertised pounds of methamphetamine. In the description of the product, Porras had claimed the methamphetamine came “direct from Mexico.”``` So, defintely not legal anywhere, nor is mass distribution of meth really something that is of benefit to anybody but the cartels he bought it from.
- bunfunton 6y ago
  It’s a benefit for me. Meth is the only thing that treats my adhd without horrible side effects. 10mg / day orally. I can’t afford the outragous out of pocket price for desoxyn per month. Moreover, after initially being prescribed it and having great results, after moving I can’t find any psychiatrist willing to prescribe it because they are all terrified of the DEA. Thus I and many other stigmatized people directly benefit from cheap pure meth on the street. Thanks for reading about this casualty of the drug war.
  - mixologic 6y ago
    I was not aware that there were legitimate prescriptions for it. But it sounds to me like you're a casualty of the pharma industry more so than the drug war. The ratio of people that street meth helps to people that it harms is, by my SWAG, a very, very small number.
sneak 6y ago
There's no victim. Literally nobody was harmed here. "Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself; and where they are, they should be changed." - Jimmy Carter, 39th President of the United States
- jmnicolas 6y ago
  > There's no victim. Literally nobody was harmed here. The IRS doesn't agree.
  - sneak 6y ago
    While the US spends the incredible quantities of tax money it does[1] waging neverending imperialistic war, there is a strong argument to be made that not giving the IRS money is the "least harm" option among the set of ("pay the IRS", "don't pay the IRS"). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... (Spoiler alert: the US spends more on its military, per capita, than any country in the world except Israel, and more than 2x as much as the next free, industrialized, developed country (Norway), and many multiples more than all other developed free countries.)
    - jmnicolas 6y ago
      The point I was trying to make is that you may see no harm as an individual, but the state has another viewpoint.
    - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
      Money taken by the IRS and money spent by Congress have almost no relationship. “Starve the beast” doesn’t work. It has had the effect of adding trillions to the debt we are passing on to our children and grandchildren though. Good job boomers! And I say that as a boomer myself.
  - jokethrowaway 6y ago
    The more money the IRS get the more money they waste or use to increase inequality. The US is already spending 13bln per day
johnwheeler 6y ago
He also had a prior felony, sold meth, sold Xanax, and had an Uzi. Not someone you’d want to date your daughter.
- plutonorm 6y ago
  What people put into their bodies is their own business.
  - johnwheeler 6y ago
    So you say. I’m not obliged to agree with what you think should be legal or illegal.
    - henearkr 6y ago
      This has nothing to do with an abstract notion of morality. In our society, we look out for each other, if somebody is in distress, e.g. hurt on the side of the road, we help him, call an ambulance, he gets medical help. The fact that society makes huge efforts to save and cure people requiring medical attention, is at the root of the taboo on substances (or behaviors) that are unhealthy. Otherwise that would be a pure waste of resources for the society. At least that was the theory. In practice, you are free to drink booze until you pass out...
      - johnwheeler 6y ago
        Yes, this is correct. I also don’t want my children to take drugs, and when you make things widely available, people use them more. You don’t have to look further than the opioid crisis to see that.
        bunfunton 6y ago
        So perhaps you should teach them not to use drugs instead of trying to control what other people are allowed to put into their own bodies.
blunte 6y ago
There is considerable information back from the 80s to suggest that the US war on drugs was actually a system to enable racial discrimination. Then some years later, the ear on drugs became associated with the growth of the private prison industry and it's lobbyists. Indeed I provide no references here because it is quite an involved topic and difficult to prove given the publicly available information.
- pmachinery 6y ago
  The motivation for fictitious wars against bogeymen is to empower and bankroll law enforcement while diminishing the civil rights of citizens. Like the war on terror, the decades long war on drugs has been a roaring success.
  - wwright 6y ago
    The war on terror and war on drugs are closely related enough (through expansion of powers and economic policies such as allowing police to purchase old military equipment) that I wonder if it’s worth even treating them as separate things.
    - Jon_Lowtek 6y ago
      The war on drugs has a lot more raids in the own territory while the war on terror has more bombings in foreign territory, so for now there are some major differences. However once using predator and reaper drones against citizens without any judicial oversight is normalized, that difference will be gone.
      - pc86 6y ago
        There are quite a few domestic impacts of the war on terror: domestic spying and the USA PATRIOT Act are two huge examples. In the context of "bankroll law enforcement while diminishing the civil rights of citizens" it's nearly identical to the war on drugs domestically.
aristophenes 6y ago
I can partially understand that point of view for marijuana (though I think it’s important for a functional society to obey laws, and get them changed if they aren’t working instead of just breaking them based on personal preference). But the guy had been selling methamphetamine too, which is life destroying poison. Our government provides costly services for people who are incapable of taking care of themselves, and that drug creates a bigger burden on those programs. Unless you also advocate for the removal of social safety nets I don’t see how you can justify thinking that the government shouldn’t try to limit drug use.
- greenduck 6y ago
  Sure, but purely from the side of pragmatism, throwing people in jail isn't effective either. Treating them compassionately and giving them help for their problem works much better.
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    Also imagine saying the US has social safety nets.
    - aristophenes 6y ago
      The US has social safety nets.
- darkmoney007 6y ago
  "Unless you also advocate for the removal of social safety nets" Trump is actively defunding Social Security and other programs.
- non-entity 6y ago
  > But the guy had been selling methamphetamine too, which is life destroying poison. Time to arrest the liquor store owners?
  - jh86 6y ago
draugadrotten 6y ago
You are glossing over the illegal firearms. Would it really be better to wait for the murder.
- antihero 6y ago
  The firearms were legal and licensed, however due to the drugs, they became illegal.
ykevinator 6y ago
I totally agree. Consenting buyer and seller, this is a leftover from the Mayflower (no dancing kind of thing). At some point the world should just stop wasting money on preventing things that humans want. Prostitution, pot, etc., will never be stopped because people want to buy and sell it.
yboris 6y ago
My favorite book on the topic is "Legalize This!" by Douglas Husak arguing that we should decriminalize all drugs. Surprisingly, the prohibition of alcohol in 1920's did not punish alcohol drinkers, just distributors. This model for drugs today would be a major improvement over the draconian treatment we have of the non-violent drug offenders. https://www.amazon.com/Legalize-This-Decriminalizing-Practical-Ethics/dp/1859843204 https://www.amazon.com/Legalize-This-Decriminalizing-Practic...
hendersoon 6y ago
Per the article, this guy also sold methamphetamine in large quantities on another site, so it isn't just about marijuana.
AviationAtom 6y ago
Think you meant to say legal

modin 6y ago

> The pictures included closeup pictures of Porras’ hand with visible fingerprint ridges. I thought via the title that they fingerprinted the lens used to take the photograph, not that there was literal pictures of fingers.

usr1106 6y ago
Of course as a SW engineer you think any kind of digitally embedded fingerprint first.
- modin 6y ago
  Not digitally embedded as EXIF since it was uploaded to Imgur which AFAIK strip those out, but more like lens scratches and sensor noise, similar to [0]. [0]: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1634362 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1634362
heelix 6y ago
I strongly suspected that is what they did too. Got to wonder if they used the EXIF data to find him - linking photos of the pot and other social media/etc public shots, then used the fingerprints as parallel construction.
- ficklepickle 6y ago
  Imgur strips exif by default. I agree it sounds like parallel construction. The article mentions they compared his finger prints to those from the picture. How did they know to check against his prints? Sounds like they already knew who it was, by means that aren't admissible as evidence.
  - Jabbles 6y ago
    Imgur certainly doesn't display EXIF by default, but are you sure it doesn't retain it such that it could be obtained by a warrant?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sneak 6y ago

The amount of resources that the US federal government will use to pursue ridiculously long sentences (that frequently involve torture[1]) against people who did not victimize a single person is absolutely insane to me. The prohibition on the possession and sale of drugs must come to an end, and weapons charges should never, ever be brought against anyone who didn't use weapons to commit a crime or otherwise perpetrate violence/cause harm. Literally no violence and no victim is claimed by the state here, and yet he's going to spend almost six years in prison, even after a plea deal. This is well over a half of a million dollars in tax money, just to house/feed/medicate him during that time (perhaps as much as twice that in the event of medical conditions), not counting the resources spent within the courts, the prosecution offices, the clerks, and the provision of public defenders (if any). It's probably closer to a million tax dollars, all told. Had he not taken the plea? He could have received a much, much longer sentence: 20+ years. This would then be upwards of 4 or 5 million dollars spent by the state. Is this justice? More importantly, is this a good use of the public's resources? A million+ US tax dollars could instead be used to prevent violent crime, or to house the homeless, or any number of other purposes which very easily surpass the benefit or usefulness of the imprisonment of people who do not victimize or harm others. [1]: in the form of exceptionally long periods of forced solitary confinement, which causes permanent physiological and psychological damage.

TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
I personally want drug-dealing gun-wielding ex-felons to be put in prison. Plus he only got 5 years, which isn't a long sentence in the US.
- bunfunton 6y ago
  I personally don’t want somebody supplying goods to customers who want them, coming together in a consensual transaction jailed. Where one person then decides to alter their own brain chemistry with their own consent. 5 years not long? Ok.
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago

syspec 6y ago

> We know, thanks to documents from other Operation Dark Gold cases, that Porras had used a money laundering service controlled by Homeland Security Investigations Geeze

booleandilemma 6y ago

I wish more resources were spent on law enforcement at the local level, fighting real crime. They could have more police patrolling the streets and subways, deterring assaults[0] and daylight shootings[1]. Does anyone really care that this drug dealer is locked up? Is anyone safer now? Do I have to worry any less about getting mugged on the subway at night? Of course people are calling to defund the police, and if that happens I’ll have to be more worried. [0]: https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-homeless-man-arrested-women-shove-penn-station-video-20200919-mvusy4lbk5fm5iqzis5samcdae-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-homeless-m... [1]: https://nypost.com/2020/09/08/three-injured-in-broad-daylight-nyc-shooting/ https://nypost.com/2020/09/08/three-injured-in-broad-dayligh...

redisman 6y ago
There are also magnitudes more destructive things they could be hunting on the dark web. This is like the lowest bar of illegality going on
mleonhard 6y ago
The drug dealer was selling meth. Meth destroys people. And meth addiction leads to many robberies and burglaries. I think punishing this meth dealer is a net positive for society.
- Sevrene 6y ago
  Someone will just fill the void left by this vendor and no harm will be removed. It wont be a net positive at all. In the end, all there will be is another person ruined. I don't think it's right to punish a pub for all problems caused by alcohol intoxication, but I do think punishing a pub for serving alcohol negligently is okay. My understanding is one of the main reasons methamphetamines are so widely used and sold is because meth is cheap and easy to make compared to safer possible alternatives. That indicates to me that this seems like a market that needs regulation, not prohibition. I'm not saying meth should be legal, I'm saying the drug market can be regulated to reduce harm. If that regulation means disallowing certain substances that do cause excessive harm, that's a good thing too.

mschwaig 6y ago

'So we have these fingerprints, and we think they belong to this guy we already have prints on file for. Can you give us a yes/no answer if they match up?' seems like a pretty low bar for evidence. Seems like the kind of thing that could heavily skew towards telling you what you want to hear. Maybe someone else knows if it actually works like that, the writeup made it sound like that to me. I'm just some guy who saw a tv documentatary at some point about how forensic techniques that worked like that got called into question when conflicting DNA evidence started turning up.

zapdrive 6y ago
My understanding from skimming the article is, they only identified the suspect from fingerprints. After identification they did surveillance and gathered additional evidence.
- mschwaig 6y ago
  > The FDL [HSI Forensic Document Laboratory] returned the request after conducting a comparative analysis of the friction ridge detail of the fingerprints from the Imgur album and the fingerprint samples taken after police had arrested Porras for a different crime. The fingerprints in the Imgur album matched the prints they already had on file for Porras. It doesn't sound like that to me, but maybe I am misunderstanding what a comparative analysis would entail.
  - zapdrive 6y ago
    It doesn't say they arrested him immediately after the match. If you read the article they say they placed multiple orders and would surveill him after every order. That's how they gathered evidence.
    - mschwaig 6y ago
      I did read the article. I am interested in how forensic evicende like that is gathered in general and how reliable it is in general. It's debatable what role that fingerprint played in that investigation, but I did not want to call into question that particular outcome. For example my impression is that DNA evidence is very reliable while for example optically matching hairs or matching bite marks, which I think was done in the past in a similar 'does A match B setup' is fairly unreliable. It's interesting to me both from both the 'what bar does evidence have to meet to make sure there are no false convictions' side as well as the 'what are the privacy implications of posting pictures with fingerprints in them' side.

jasoneckert 6y ago

What I find the most interesting about this article is that someone was able to be identified using a picture of their fingerprints. Thus, any photos posted online could be scoured for identification information. And with computer vision technologies becoming more mature, it means that regular video footage of people could identify them the same way in seconds or less using a wide variety of different visual traits. The implications of this on individual privacy are immense.

hunter2_ 6y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if writing style could also be used. I tend to use certain constructions and vocabulary across many of my comments. Some are under a handle with little or no link to my real identity, and some are quite the opposite. I expect someone could deanonymize the former based on correlation of writing style with the latter.
- 3131s 6y ago
  That's called stylometry and it can be surprisingly accurate under the right conditions.
  - gruez 6y ago
    What’s the actual scientific evidence backing this? I’m asking because various forensic techniques that were previously perceived to be reliable (fingerprints, handwriting analysis, bite marks) turned out to be total bunk.
    - SpelingBeeChamp 6y ago
      Evidence that fingerprint analysis is "total bunk?" That one is news to me.
      - mattmanser 6y ago
        Well, not total bunk, but less reliable than generally believed: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228442-600-miscarriage-of-justice-points-to-fingerprint-flaws/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228442-600-miscarri... Then again a lot of forensic techniques seem to fall into the same category: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150512-can-we-trust-forensic-science https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150512-can-we-trust-for... A lot of the problems come from human bias and over-stating the accuracy of tests at trial.

varispeed 6y ago

It's incredible that so much tax payer money and human resources are devoted to defend pharmaceutical companies monopoly on drugs. By his inventory it sounds like his customers would likely be people with chronic conditions that have strong presence of pharmaceutical lobby to prevent legal sales of cannabis and probably cannot afford Xanax through legal means because the cost of getting medical help is extortionate.

grugagag 6y ago
That wouldn't be too far from truth. 75 percent of people started their addiction from prescription medication who then turn to the black market to maintain their habit. The big pharma is loosing a large profit. They heavily opposed marijuana legalization, their role in the war on drugs is quite clear to me.

ourmandave 6y ago

There's useful links at the bottom of the page, like the Darknet Market's Noobs Bible. =) Hello and welcome to the Darknetmarkets bible for buyers. The buyer's DNM bible aims to be a complete guide that covers all steps that users have to take in order to buy securely from darknetmarkets. In case you're thinking about launching your criminal career or whatever.

non-entity 6y ago
In what world does purchasing from a DNM make you a career criminal? What if I buy a completely legal item?
- unnouinceput 6y ago
  None. Doubt you find legal items there though. Maybe you find legal items in some parts but illegal in others, like marijuana is now in US. Better have all papers prepared to prove you made the purchase in a legal state though.
  - bunfunton 6y ago
    Good thing that the government has to prove our guilt instead of we having to prove our innocence.

themark 6y ago

Things I learned: Use the spell checker. Randomly misspell different words.

SpelingBeeChamp 6y ago
Check out Anonymouth: https://github.com/psal/anonymouth https://github.com/psal/anonymouth (How do you hyperlink text here?)

ddelt 6y ago

I’m reading a lot of comments here which tackle the thorny topic of decriminalization of drugs in the US that we have historically over-prosecuted. I happen to agree with this sentiment as well. But almost everyone here arguing for a middle ground agrees that things won’t change because all three branches of the US seem determined to keep a hard-line or zero tolerance policy on drugs, even when legalization and medical supervision, creation of new business and exploration of safer alternatives and research into benefits of said drugs are brought up as arguments and are summarily dismissed because “reasons”. What are some actual, practical steps we all can take towards making decriminalization a reality?

mabbo 6y ago

> Porras also admitted possessing a Model A uzi-style pistol; a MAK 90; and an S&W .44 caliber revolver. Although all weapons in Porras’ possession were legal firearms (the uzi-style pistol used post ban parts), a felony conviction for possession with intent precluded firearm ownership. Can someone explain this part to me. Was he previously convicted of a crime that precluded ownership? Or are the police able to take legal behaviour and change it to illegal behaviour later on?

mjh2539 6y ago
That he was previously convicted of felony possession with intent to distribute and that this precluded him from owning firearms is the only felicitous reading of that sentence.
ciarannolan 6y ago
Felons cannot own guns in the US. There's nothing complicated about it.
- notassigned 6y ago
  Well they can, they just aren't allowed to...
- garrettgrimsley 6y ago
  It's actually more complicated than that. In many states if you are convicted of a non-violent felony then at the end of your sentence your firearm rights are automatically restored. There are also the cases of pardons, expungements, and other restorations of civil rights. It varies by state, and while USC 922(g) outlaws firearm ownership possession by any felon, in practice the Federal courts look at whether the person has had their civil rights restored in the state of the alleged offense. When it comes to Federal charges, the prospect of amelioration is grim. In the Federal scenario, there is no expungement or pathway to restore your civil rights, but a pardon is possible. [0] There's also a discussion to be had about your and the legal definition of a "gun." For example, antique firearms such as some black powder rifles are specifically excepted [1] from the Federal legislation, but it could vary on a state by state basis. [0] https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1435-post-conviction-restoration-civil-rights https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual... [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

Scoundreller 6y ago

So uhhhh, who’s building a deep fake generator that’ll transpose someone else’s fingerprints on a photo containing another hand?

cnst 6y ago

I've always been conscious of fingerprints potentially showing up in the photos. Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't after you. The same thing goes about keys -- it's amazing how people willingly share photos of their keys (with full signature and all) in full view.

yboris 6y ago
As far as I can tell (from other comments I came across in the past), lock-picking is such an easy thing, that going through the effort of creating a key from a photo is just a technical exercise, not a needed strategy. But I think you are likely talking about different keys than the ones that open physical doors ;)
EmilioMartinez 6y ago
Always wondered the same. More so, it baffles me that locksmiths use physical keys to copy new keys, propagating errors in the long run.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  They have the machines to cut keys to code spec but don't bother using them?

djinnandtonic 6y ago

I don't like to sound like I'm wearing tinfoil, but I'm not sure I believe this. We keep getting eyebrow-raising explanations for how computer criminals are caught; I always ask why bother? The American intelligence apparatus has compromised nearly all network traffic, from hardware backdoors on up. I assume the real way this person was detected and caught would be too embarrassing to admit, hence the fingerprints-from-a-photo cover.

justanotheranon 6y ago
Parallel Construction. it would be a national security catastrophe if it leaked that NSA was bulk decrypting all TLS/SSL traffic Internet-wide, by using a giant rainbow table of prime pair products for instant decryption without factoring, which was first proposed by Rabin back in 1997 at a NIST working group for establishing crypto standards. then NSA would lose the biggest SIGINT advantage since ENIGMA back in WW2. so instead, DEA is tasked with finding the dummies who post photos of their hands or bookshelves or who made n00b opsec mistakes like re-using handles or email accounts that connect to their real names. then DEA applies Parallel Construction to fabricate an investigative evidence chain to present to the Court. the Court never needs to know the truth. by the way, i personally do believe NSA is doing this, and all of Tor is as good as plain text to Ft Meade, because Rabin's idea really would scale with today's computing and storage capacities, and because that is exactly what i would do too. just what do you think Bluffdale is really for?
- schoen 6y ago
  > by the way, i personally do believe NSA is doing this, and all of Tor is as good as plain text to Ft Meade, because Rabin's idea really would scale with today's computing and storage capacities, and because that is exactly what i would do too. I love to talk about how we can mitigate attacks on cryptography as much as the next person, but have you looked at what algorithms Tor uses? While they have a bunch of alarming legacy 1024-bit RSA and DH stuff, they also have Ed25519 identities and Curve25519 ECDH key exchange, plus running everything over TLS with various ciphersuites -- many of which are now ECDH. https://github.com/torproject/torspec/blob/master/tor-spec.txt https://github.com/torproject/torspec/blob/master/tor-spec.t... The type of handshake and key exchange is chosen by the client, and I think the default has been to prefer the ntor method for a long time.

iseanstevens 6y ago

A friend described that many in the government/military of Nazi Germany (including Hitler) were using significant amounts of amphetamines. Which in part lead to the atrocities of humanity that occurred. I can’t speak to the truth of this, and have definitely seen the US War on Drugs as a way to treat people unfairly based on race etc. I would certainly believe something similar is going on with the Trump administration. It would at least make a bit of sense as to why so little sense is being made. Anyways I thought it was an interesting theory so figured I would relay it here.

lioeters 6y ago
Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany by Norman Ohler, Shaun Whiteside (Translator) https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29429893-blitzed https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29429893-blitzed

userbinator 6y ago

Legal or otherwise, I've seen plenty of sellers holding their products while photographing, so I wonder why it's done --- personally I think it looks a bit unprofessional to have a hand or other things showing. Putting it on a table or otherwise featureless surface would look far better to a prospective buyer.

thefounder 6y ago
Maybe to make it look more real/personal/less generic.
renewiltord 6y ago
It gives the impression you didn't just stock photo it or reuse someone else's.

anewguy9000 6y ago

this guy should not be in jail. if he lived a little further north he could grow cannabis in his back yard. its wrong and its immoral but i guess the old white dudes in capes playing judge grew up thinking cannabis makes you into a rapist

tartoran 6y ago
They charged him on multiple charges * illegal possession of firearms, distributed a few kilos of Xanax and also lots of marijuana over 2 years or so. If he sold pot only he'd probably get a suspended sentence as a first time offense. I think he got a bit greedy, had he stopped short at some point and went on a year long vacation around the world he would probably be still free now.
- anewguy9000 6y ago
  as i understood it the firearms were legally owned but became illegal because of the traficking charges
  - tartoran 6y ago
    Maybe you're right and I'm sure they 'overcharged' as much as they could, did take their time collecting a whole lot of evidence against him. But, he knew what he was doing. If he stopped at pot he probably would be on probation or something.

peter_d_sherman 6y ago

>"Vendors sent the money launderer a certain amount of Bitcoin and the money launderer mailed cash back to the vendor." My question: If Party A sends Party B Bitcoin, and Party B sends Party A money, and that transaction is considered "money laundering" -- then let's suppose Party A sends Party B gold (coins, bars, bullion, etc.), and Party B sends Party A money -- does that transaction also count as "money laundering"? ?