16 ms·

More than half of 18 to 29-year-olds in the US are living with parents

188 points by jocker12 6y ago

zerobits 6y ago
Apparently this isn’t a huge recent change —- it was at 47% of young adults at the same time last year (now it’s 52%). Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-live-with-their-parents-for-the-first-time-since-the-great-depression/ft_2020-09-04_livingwithparents_03/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-...
atum47 6y ago
well, I'm 35, do own my own apartment and I'm living with my parents. I don't know if it's a south american thing but we're a very close with our families over here. specially in this pandemic time it felt very natural to me to be here with them. I do have a room seoarated from the main house, so its quite good
atoav 6y ago
The combination of world class military apartus/nuclear power, not being able to collectively care for each other plus the feeling that parts of the nation are on the brink of a civil war is really keeping my gears grinding. Compared to pre-Trump times talking to an US citizen feels either like to talking to someone in a delusional cult or like talking to someone who realized the american dream they told themselves existed is utter nonsense with no bearing in reality whatsoever.
- beamatronic 6y ago
  You seem to be leaving out the group of Americans who worked hard, succeeded, and improved their situation.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  Your narrative is a commonly expressed one by the PC left, but it doesn't match reality. > world class military apartus/nuclear power This is a good thing for the world, as the US has maintained relative international peace for 75 years. The US stopped the Bosnian conflict (in Europe!) after the EU was afraid to do so. > not being able to collectively care for each other There are historical reasons for that, so it's not an accident. The US people have chosen to not offer single-payer (socialized) medicine, and the CDC failed in their charter during corona. (They had since corona-1 in 2003 to create a corona vaccine, but didn't make it a priority.) Americans historically have also been mobile, moving away from their parents. The end result is as you said, but only an indictment of the CDC. > parts of the nation are on the brink of a civil war Various socialists/marxists are rioting in some downtown areas, usurping the BLM protests. Arson is a capital crime, and arsonists should be shot on sight. Trump is our elected leader, and he's proven to be mostly correct on China and aviation's role in spreading corona, and the solution to marxist protests. You can watch Dr. Victor Davis Hanson's Youtube videos to learn more about how effective a leader Trump actually is. Dr. VDH - The Case for Trump https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEXL5USuDGI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEXL5USuDGI We are currently at war with China, so the marxist protests are literally undermining our ability to deal with an existential threat to the entire world that's comparable to WW2. You can learn more about this by watching Youtube videos by NTD, Joshua Phillips - Crossroads and Simone Gao. https://www.youtube.com/c/CrossroadswithJOSHUAPHILIPP/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/CrossroadswithJOSHUAPHILIPP/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVWMVBg1RPrDlakdmbyTKBA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVWMVBg1RPrDlakdmbyTKBA I suggest you keep your eye on the ball and vote Trump in November.
hindsightbias 6y ago
Failure to Launch premiered 6 months before Idiocracy.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Alex3917 6y ago
The problem is the previous generation ruined the housing market by building rentals and McMansions. Typical sized families are most happy when they have 2400 - 2600 sq. feet of house, but most apartments on the market are less than 1,300 and most houses on the market are over 3,000.
- Supermancho 6y ago
  This is a side-effect of the wealth inequity (re: mass closing of small businesses) from almost 30 days ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24126128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24126128 My sentiment has not changed.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Fluid_Mechanics 6y ago
    I tend to agree, the cultural observations usually gloss over the more impactful economic and geopolitical trends. Human behavior seems to be a reflection of these larger forces.
- thrwn_frthr_awy 6y ago
  > Most houses on the market are over 3,000 The average size of new single family homes in the built in 2019 in the U.S. is around 2,500 sq. feet.
  - WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
    Averaged sized US home is 1760 sq ft. In my market it's smaller. Sub 1000 is common for detached. ref:https://www.homes.com/blog/2018/10/states-with-the-largest-and-smallest-homes/ https://www.homes.com/blog/2018/10/states-with-the-largest-a...
    - scarface74 6y ago
      The average size of a new home is 2623 square feet. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/07/mcmansion.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/07/mcmansion.asp
tyoma 6y ago
Why is this surprising? Many colleges are online only or getting there after COVID spikes post re-opening. Those students have nowhere else to go.
pmorici 6y ago
Would be more interesting if they broke it down from 18-22 (college age) and 23-29 (working age). Not everyone goes to college but it seems like a lot of this could be explained by kids living at home when their schools shut down in-person classes. The way they present the data it is impossible to tell.
adolph 6y ago
Brent Cohen, executive director of Generation Progress, a research and advocacy center for young people, believes working remotely was the main cause. 'For those who were working remotely, this was likely a short-term move so that they weren’t alone in their apartments when social distancing measures were put in place,' Cohen said. 'But, what was expected by many to last two to four weeks, has now extended for nearly six months.'
millenialtrash 6y ago
Maybe instead of larping as terrorists these entitled jerks should go get a job.
DavidCohen76 6y ago
And this is a good thing. Nobody said that owning our history would be easy. Nobody said multiculturalism would be a win for those who have enjoyed their privilege for too long, at the expense of others. Does anyone have a problem with this? If we must abandon the problematic nostalgia for happy, productive, comfortable lives in a nice home with a loving spouse and 4+ children then we must abandon it. No doubt some people will exploit these inconveniences and our anxieties to undermine the noble pursuit of absolute multiculturalism, but I would argue that we need that foreign labour now more than ever. If that means more lower and middle class White Americans can't find work, so be it. I sure as heck don't want to live in an America without HSPs. They might point to interest rates, ever-growing national debt, ever-growing wealth of foreign bankers, and the less subtle anti-Semites might even directly criticize the generous and necessary aid that the US contributes to Israel, but I can hardly think of a more sensible use of taxpayer funds which are literally for the communal good. As the article says, White Americans are now almost at parity with Black Americans in this particular socioeconomic metric. We have a long way to go yet, but it's a start.
- eloff 6y ago
  I'm really struggling to understand if this is serious or satire. I think is serious, which is disturbing to me.
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    Which is funny considering there are literally empty houses just sitting doing nothing right now. Our economy is so inefficient it's ridiculous.
robofanatic 6y ago
No problem until kids get married. Till then whats wrong with them staying with the family? They can pay rent (less than the market rate) to parents and manage expenses on their own. Its a total win-win situation. Stop shaming kids or parents who do that.
- justinator 6y ago
  Speaking purely for myself, I wanted to get out of the house as soon as possible - didn't know why. Looking back, my family was totally dysfunctional and toxic. Being in an atmosphere where I couldn't have left (due to things like the economy or whatever) would have been akin to being in an abuse romantic relationship, while living with my partner. But they don't make "safe houses" for 19 year olds trying to escape their parents. You're just homeless. Looking back, I should have ran away at ~16, things would have been much better.
  - jasonv 6y ago
    I’ve always told people if they like their parents enough and the circumstances are positive, living with your parents longer can be a great option. I moved out of my parents’ home when I was 16 and never looked back. My 16 year old isn’t likely to be leaving anytime soon. He spends his evenings with his family and drives a good bit of the dynamics (game nights, weekend agendas, etc). He simply likes it at home. I’m vigilant about the time at which he’s probably going to need to separate in ways he hasn’t signaled yet, but for now, we’re all happy to be together. But he’s not 18 and in the job market and making an economic selection. But when the world is as crazy as it is now, maybe those who like their parents enough to return home are harbingers of something could that can come out of this — stronger familial connections. Certainly, my generation doesn’t seem to have it going backwards...
  - diob 6y ago
    You hit the nail on the head. While others see their families as a support system, mine has always acted as the opposite. Similar to you, I wish I had gotten out earlier. I feel for all the folks who are forced to stay in abusive "support" systems just to survive.
chasd00 6y ago
I couch surfed for a couple summers in college and my wife full on lived in a car for a while before we met. We never thought of moving back in with our parents as an option. heh as soon as my little sister moved out my parents moved into a very small house, there would have been no where to sleep anyway. (I was born in '76 so sorta gen-x)
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
18 year olds and 29 year olds are worlds apart. Does anyone have these numbers broken down by smaller age groups? Given that universities are largely online only and dorms are closed, it’s not surprising that large numbers of college age students would be moving home. Including them with people in their late 20s muddies the waters.
- vitus 6y ago
  From the original Pew report: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-live-with-their-parents-for-the-first-time-since-the-great-depression/ft_2020-09-04_livingwithparents_03/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-... So, the increase was mostly driven by 18-24 year olds (both college-age as well as some new grads), who were already 2.4x more likely to live with their parents.
  - missedthecue 6y ago
    A ton of college age students literally can not go to college right now. Are they included in these stats, or are college age students listed as living at home by default? I cannot make it out from the link. If so, this seems really obvious and that is was useless research.
    - vitus 6y ago
      The full news release from Pew [0] indicates that this is analysis of the monthly Current Population Survey [1] conducted by the Department of Labor. "The analysis of recent trends and characteristics is based on the monthly Current Population Survey (CPS), conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau for the Bureau of Labor Statistics." In particular, further in Pew's methodology section ("How we did this"), the authors note that the CPS counts all unmarried students in dorms as living with their parents. This is a pretty big caveat. However, this still indicates an shift of students living off-campus who moved back in with their parents. Additionally: "The Current Population Survey (CPS), also referred to as the household survey, is a monthly sample survey of 60,000 eligible households conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau for the Bureau of Labor Statistics The survey is conducted using a combination of live telephone and in-person interviews with household respondents." So, the shift is driven by surveys, rather than generic assumptions. That said, IMO, the value-add of this analysis is not the top-line number, but the relative shift (5% absolute increase _since February_). [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-live-with-their-parents-for-the-first-time-since-the-great-depression/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-... [1] https://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_over.htm https://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_over.htm
logicslave 6y ago
The government printed massive amounts of money over the last 15 years, which inflated financial assets. Now everyone who is younger cannot afford any of those assets, housing included. The boomers risked the economy in the early 2000s, caused the crash in 2008, and then printed money to save themselves. This has pushed younger generations into what is essentially financial slavery.
- nogabebop23 6y ago
  Hey, whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better. Yet somehow the several generation between you and the boomers managed to make a go of it; how did that happen? I employ a number of these new grads and pay a salary that will more than pay for them to own a home in our market; how is this possible in your alternative universe? Maybe before you throw the word slavery around you should give some thought to what that actually means. HINT: it's a little more harsh than living with your parents.
  - logicslave 6y ago
    I work as a software engineer at FAANG, I will retire young. Basically anyone who is young that doesnt work as an engineer or didnt go to a top school is completely shut out of decent housing near decent cities. "Yet somehow the several generation between you and the boomers managed to make a go of it; how did that happen?" This argument makes zero sense. Was going to make a reply, but forget it
    - samatman 6y ago
      Yeah, "Gen X wasn't as badly screwed as the Millennials" isn't the slam-dunk argument it must have looked like when GP typed it out... Zoomers might be ok, though, if they keep their heads down and don't take student debt. The Boomers won't last forever.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      There are a lot of “decent cities” where you can afford a decent apartment working making $40K a year. Apartments in the burbs of Atlanta are around $700-$800 a month.
2Gkashmiri 6y ago
Serious question. Why does America have a fixation with moving out of your parents home? Why does this headline make it sound like some bad thing. Oh god!
- nip180 6y ago
  Americans have a fixation on independence and “making it” on your own is a way to demonstrate independence. —- Random well educated American.
- atomicnumber3 6y ago
  Do you live in the US? This is, roughly, the modern version of the american dream... Be born to a middle class family living in the suburbs of a major city. Go to k-8 and maybe learn a bit (it's mostly highly structured childcare with learning sprinkled on top). Go to high school, get good enough grades that you get into AP classes. Get enough AP credit that you enter the college of your choice with plenty of headroom for a 4-year degree. Then take 5 years to do a 4-year degree. Learn how to live alone and be responsible while at college. Graduate, get a nice entry-level job through connections you made at university making ~1.5x median household income for your city. Get married. Climb the corporate ladder and have kids. And so on. Obviously this is extremely specific, assumes a lot of privilege, and so on. But this is the path that will have your snooty aunt having nothing bad to say about you at Thanksgiving. The important think to note is that, basically after leaving high school, the above plan has you living outside your parents house (even if you're still not totally independent). Moving back home after college is a pretty big step down in freedom (don't have to sneak your dates out the back door before your parents wake up, among many many other things). So, from two different sides: one, people used to dorm or college living won't want to downgrade back to being under their parents' thumb to any degree. And two, being back in your parents' house post-high-school indicates a lot of things to potential partners and maybe even employers (though obviously decent ones won't ask or care..... but lots of employers aren't decent). It's totally just a cultural thing. I think it will probably shift fast here in the next 20 years though. There are a lot of people in the 23-29 age range who have found the american dream I described above to be a pretty shitty deal that isn't attainable for a large portion of the population.
booleandilemma 6y ago
Isn’t this the norm in Asia and other parts of the world? Why is there such a stigma in the US? Doesn’t it help people save money?
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  It's an American thing. Our national identity revolves around the idea of liberty and freedom, and we mythologize the self-made person. See the current debate over firearms. Same deal. Individual liberty versus the good of the group. It's not rational, but it is who we are.
ponker 6y ago
I’m ~40 and my wife and three kids are living with my parents. With the pandemic it was very isolated to be by ourselves and we could WFH anywhere so are moving between my parents and my in-laws every few months. Kids are getting lots of grandparent time and lots of unauthorized screen time.
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  In a time where more and more older people are feeling isolated, and kids are cut off as well that's wonderful to give them an opportunity to enjoy spending time with loved ones. Good for you guys.
in_cahoots 6y ago
My best friend lived with her parents until she got married. She went to a no-name college and became a teacher. I, along with my parents, spent 5 figures on a prestigious university and PhD, and I now work in Silicon Valley. With the money she saved on room and board she was able to put down a large down payment on a 0.5-acre house with her husband in New England. Meanwhile I am paying 5% interest on a jumbo loan. Who is the dummy here?
- forrestthewoods 6y ago
  You should be able to refinance that jumbo loan down quite a bit! Rates are real good right now.
  - laughmayters 6y ago
    Banks are not offering jumbo refinances. All the houses in my neighborhood are 1m+, and they’re all off the market now because its not possible to secure a jumbo loan at the moment. My be region-dependent, IDK.
    - lukejduncan 6y ago
      I just refinanced a jumbo at sub 3%. Definitely happening.
      - gregorywlove 6y ago
        What institution? Wells, Bank of America, and a handful of boutique lenders in the Bay Area all recently stated they can’t offer anything below three.
        lukejduncan 6y ago
        https://www.rate.com/loan-expert/nicole https://www.rate.com/loan-expert/nicole
gumby 6y ago
When I got married (me 26, spouse 23) my in laws assumed we would move in with them and had been putting together plans to remodel the house to adapt it. Her brother lived there until he married at 30, his wife with her parents until same. This was Western Europe. Many of my own relatives in India considered it sad that I had moved out before marriage and that We didn’t get a home in the same neighbourhood as my parents after marrying. These kinds of arrangements would have driven me bananas (and would if me own kid had to do it) but it’s pretty common.
jelliclesfarm 6y ago
What is wrong with this? Multi generational households function better than nuclear families. Disclosure : I grew up in a multi generational joint family with grandparents, parents, uncles, aunts and cousins.
- polartx 6y ago
  > I grew up in a multi generational joint family with grandparents, parents, uncles, aunts and cousins. That sounds miserable, TBH
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ido 6y ago
    Why, assuming there's enough space for all of them? My grandparents lived 5 minutes walk from my parents when I was a kid & my uncle lived nearby with his family as well. Altogether 6 adults and 7 kids. It was fine and if we lived in 3 adjacent houses that would have probably only been better IMO.
    - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
      Multi generational family units that are also homesteads will be the future. Probably with robots and hydroponics rather than goats and hand weeding between turnips.
oblib 6y ago
My wife and have two of our children in the early 30s living with us. We're still in the house they were raised in. It's really pretty nice. It's not like we have to "parent" them, and we all know each other about a well as possible. We're still in the house they grew up in so it's really so familiar that it's not something my wife and I even think as being out of normal. It really doesn't make any sense for them to be paying rent and we've got a pretty sweet setup for hunkering down during this pandemic. We're surrounded by hard core "preppers" here. But really, it was pretty easy to see this kind of thing coming. It's not like we're in a full blown disaster of epic movie proportions but I think it's fair to say that it's been a lot easier on rural areas and families like where we live than most cities. We still can't know for sure but things might get tighter before they loosen up and that is when "family" becomes important. It nice to have a "family home" that we can all count on.
- jseliger 6y ago
  Until recently normal people in their 30s owned a housing unit and had a family of their own. That this seems difficult today says really bad things about our society and the public policy influencing society. I'd put housing policy at the top of the "bad public policy" list https://jakeseliger.com/2015/09/24/do-millennials-have-a-future-in-seattle-do-millennials-have-a-future-in-any-superstar-cities/ https://jakeseliger.com/2015/09/24/do-millennials-have-a-fut... but there are other reasonable candidates as well.
  - oblib 6y ago
    I agree. From the 80s on the focus on housing has been on "McMansions" and we've ignored how that's really pretty wasteful and silly. We can do a lot better than that. We've seen a surge in "tiny homes" being designed but still not built at a rate that's made a dent. And what we really need are smaller family homes that are efficient and comfortable. There are a lot of "Pre-fab" homes here where we live. Those are pretty cost effective but they still don't have the appeal of craftsmen built home. There are some really cool old homes built out of rock here (Ozark Giraffe House). Most are pretty small by today's standards but they're great starter homes for young couples.
opportune 6y ago
Just to add another data point: I am currently working as a SWE at a large bay area software company and I recently moved home with my parents to a low COL area. Not everybody is living with their parents due to economic hardship. I could pay rent pretty much anywhere but chose to move in with my parents because I saw an opportunity (from WFH) to spend time with them + my dad is sick. And it's also nice that I'll save about $20-30k a year in living expenses, live in a less dysfunctional region than the Bay Area (though with different problems for sure), and have way more living space. I am pretty happy to not be beholden to the racket that is renting in a hot metro area. Yes, it's only possible because of Covid, but it's not forced or a negative like these articles can make it seem. Anecdotally I know many other bay area/large metro area software people who have done the same thing.
- fny 6y ago
  I'm in the same boat coming from NYC. WFH has been a godsend.
- rconti 6y ago
  I happily lived with my parents while I worked a tech job from 18-21. I'm almost 40 now, own a house, and am married. I won't "live with" my parents by any real definition, but with more WFH flexibility, I will absolutely be making the 7 hour drive to spend a week with them more often than I was able to before. My parents are awesome! And you only have so much time with them in this world -- they're in their 70s and 80s and I'm happy to have the flexibility to spend more time with them. I do make sure to get a covid test each time I visit, though. (currently visiting an aunt and uncle out-of-state, after a covid test and a 16 hour drive).
WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
I have 5 18-29 year olds living with me. Here's what we've learned. Few companies will talk to you without a job history. Of those, ~0 will hire you, if you lack average-to-above-average interview talent. For the vast bulk of entry level jobs, hiring is done via web portal. Once you've applied, you've applied. Try again a year later and they'll tell you that you've already applied[1]. In most of the US, you can't reliably get to work without a vehicle. You can't afford a vehicle (+ $300/mo insurance) without saving up months worth of income. If you have any physical limitation of any kind, just keep multipling the above difficulties, until you reach your actual reality. If you have a family member with limitations (eg: mental illness), you probably ought to multiply as well. [1] This held solid from well before 2010 until a few years ago. I've heard some portals now allow reapplying, eventually. I haven't confirmed that tho.
eklavya 6y ago
All I want to do is live with my parents in my hometown. That defines success for me. I worked from home for 3.5 years in a previous job and because of Covid I am getting to live with them again for last 6 months. It could be a cultural thing but I don’t think anybody in the world can love me as much as they do (possibly my wife and my sisters). Of course we fight at times but that’s just like any other relationship. I feel pity and anger when I hear of abusive parents here. If you didn’t want a kid you shouldn’t have had one.
iKevinShah 6y ago
I have had this doubt for a very long time and I feel HN is the right place to possibly get some non-defensive / non-trolls response to it. I am an Indian and here (I'd say most of Asia) we have a very strong culture of staying with parents, living together and everything. I mean unless absolutely required , kids do not live separately. What are your views on it, as a westerner? Except the financial angle.
- zhoujianfu 6y ago
  As a westerner (U.S., Caucasian) I’d say it’s not culturally the same... you’re sort of expected to move out, maybe stay near your parents (same metro)... but no social pressure/shame if you move three time zones away either. There’s more stigma for living with your parents than not. I guess if you own the house and your parents live with you, that’s fine. But if it’s their house, generally speaking after college “it’s time to leave the nest!“
  - zanny 6y ago
    The irrationality of it really comes off as some subtle cultural manipulation by real estate moguls to profiteer off renters. I get the pressure is historic to the homesteading and rapid settlement of the country over the last 300 years but nowadays someone's got monetary interests in keeping the fire stoked.
- socialdemocrat 6y ago
  One thing I noticed when hanging around Indian friends in the past is that a lot of what they described as Indian culture has more to do with where a country is in terms of development. A lot of things they called “Indian“ is often just what it was in my country “Norway” during my grand parents generation or earlier. Staying with parents would be common here too in earlier times. A lot of western individualism grew as society transformed economically and technologically. As people got a lot fewer children, and children perhaps had to move further for work. Government had to start building out retirement homes as not all old people would have children who could take care of them. With more prosperity people also often want more independence and over time welfare services get better built out to help both the young and old. Over time your culture adapts to it. My mom would definitely not want to have me hanging around for long periods of time. But she likes that I bring the family over and stay in weekends and holidays. I know from Indian friends that you seem way more comfortable about being around a lot of people. As a Norwegian I hate being around too much people for a long time. I need plenty of alone time to feel well. But it can be too much. This COVID19 pandemic has been hard. I miss people from work. My family. Just walking in a crowded street.
LockAndLol 6y ago
How are these stats compared to the rest of the developed world? If I'm not mistaken, this is quite normal for Italy and Greece.
thomasfl 6y ago
There is a housing crisis. Birth rates will eventually go down. The real estate market is ready to be disruptet with new walkable cities. Based on modern human centered design on walkability, mixed use for businesses and housibg, bike friendly cities.
- burfog 6y ago
  Birth rates will go up because they are inheritable and because exponential growth always wins. The USA will be Amish. It's only a change in environment that can knock that down a bit, but exponential growth still wins. Birth control cut the birth rate for most people, but not for all. The resistant sub-populations are still on exponential growth even as the other sub-populations go through a population crash. It's as certain as math. Exponential growth wins.
wayanon 6y ago
I know an ex-Google ex-Facebook TechLead who will be nodding approvingly.
- batsigner 6y ago
  Guy is a scumbag.
ykevinator 6y ago
18 is vastly different from 29
stjohnswarts 6y ago
All that said it's not that bad 5% increase considering we're in the worst depression since the Great Depression.

188 points by jocker12 6y ago

Apparently this isn’t a huge recent change —- it was at 47% of young adults at the same time last year (now it’s 52%). Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-live-with-their-parents-for-the-first-time-since-the-great-depression/ft_2020-09-04_livingwithparents_03/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-...

atum47 6y ago

well, I'm 35, do own my own apartment and I'm living with my parents. I don't know if it's a south american thing but we're a very close with our families over here. specially in this pandemic time it felt very natural to me to be here with them. I do have a room seoarated from the main house, so its quite good

atoav 6y ago

The combination of world class military apartus/nuclear power, not being able to collectively care for each other plus the feeling that parts of the nation are on the brink of a civil war is really keeping my gears grinding. Compared to pre-Trump times talking to an US citizen feels either like to talking to someone in a delusional cult or like talking to someone who realized the american dream they told themselves existed is utter nonsense with no bearing in reality whatsoever.

beamatronic 6y ago
You seem to be leaving out the group of Americans who worked hard, succeeded, and improved their situation.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
redis_mlc 6y ago
Your narrative is a commonly expressed one by the PC left, but it doesn't match reality. > world class military apartus/nuclear power This is a good thing for the world, as the US has maintained relative international peace for 75 years. The US stopped the Bosnian conflict (in Europe!) after the EU was afraid to do so. > not being able to collectively care for each other There are historical reasons for that, so it's not an accident. The US people have chosen to not offer single-payer (socialized) medicine, and the CDC failed in their charter during corona. (They had since corona-1 in 2003 to create a corona vaccine, but didn't make it a priority.) Americans historically have also been mobile, moving away from their parents. The end result is as you said, but only an indictment of the CDC. > parts of the nation are on the brink of a civil war Various socialists/marxists are rioting in some downtown areas, usurping the BLM protests. Arson is a capital crime, and arsonists should be shot on sight. Trump is our elected leader, and he's proven to be mostly correct on China and aviation's role in spreading corona, and the solution to marxist protests. You can watch Dr. Victor Davis Hanson's Youtube videos to learn more about how effective a leader Trump actually is. Dr. VDH - The Case for Trump https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEXL5USuDGI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEXL5USuDGI We are currently at war with China, so the marxist protests are literally undermining our ability to deal with an existential threat to the entire world that's comparable to WW2. You can learn more about this by watching Youtube videos by NTD, Joshua Phillips - Crossroads and Simone Gao. https://www.youtube.com/c/CrossroadswithJOSHUAPHILIPP/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/CrossroadswithJOSHUAPHILIPP/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVWMVBg1RPrDlakdmbyTKBA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVWMVBg1RPrDlakdmbyTKBA I suggest you keep your eye on the ball and vote Trump in November.

hindsightbias 6y ago

Failure to Launch premiered 6 months before Idiocracy.

deleted 6y ago

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Alex3917 6y ago

The problem is the previous generation ruined the housing market by building rentals and McMansions. Typical sized families are most happy when they have 2400 - 2600 sq. feet of house, but most apartments on the market are less than 1,300 and most houses on the market are over 3,000.

Supermancho 6y ago
This is a side-effect of the wealth inequity (re: mass closing of small businesses) from almost 30 days ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24126128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24126128 My sentiment has not changed.
- deleted 6y ago
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- Fluid_Mechanics 6y ago
  I tend to agree, the cultural observations usually gloss over the more impactful economic and geopolitical trends. Human behavior seems to be a reflection of these larger forces.
thrwn_frthr_awy 6y ago
> Most houses on the market are over 3,000 The average size of new single family homes in the built in 2019 in the U.S. is around 2,500 sq. feet.
- WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
  Averaged sized US home is 1760 sq ft. In my market it's smaller. Sub 1000 is common for detached. ref:https://www.homes.com/blog/2018/10/states-with-the-largest-and-smallest-homes/ https://www.homes.com/blog/2018/10/states-with-the-largest-a...
  - scarface74 6y ago
    The average size of a new home is 2623 square feet. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/07/mcmansion.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/pf/07/mcmansion.asp

tyoma 6y ago

Why is this surprising? Many colleges are online only or getting there after COVID spikes post re-opening. Those students have nowhere else to go.

pmorici 6y ago

Would be more interesting if they broke it down from 18-22 (college age) and 23-29 (working age). Not everyone goes to college but it seems like a lot of this could be explained by kids living at home when their schools shut down in-person classes. The way they present the data it is impossible to tell.

adolph 6y ago

Brent Cohen, executive director of Generation Progress, a research and advocacy center for young people, believes working remotely was the main cause. 'For those who were working remotely, this was likely a short-term move so that they weren’t alone in their apartments when social distancing measures were put in place,' Cohen said. 'But, what was expected by many to last two to four weeks, has now extended for nearly six months.'

millenialtrash 6y ago

Maybe instead of larping as terrorists these entitled jerks should go get a job.

DavidCohen76 6y ago

And this is a good thing. Nobody said that owning our history would be easy. Nobody said multiculturalism would be a win for those who have enjoyed their privilege for too long, at the expense of others. Does anyone have a problem with this? If we must abandon the problematic nostalgia for happy, productive, comfortable lives in a nice home with a loving spouse and 4+ children then we must abandon it. No doubt some people will exploit these inconveniences and our anxieties to undermine the noble pursuit of absolute multiculturalism, but I would argue that we need that foreign labour now more than ever. If that means more lower and middle class White Americans can't find work, so be it. I sure as heck don't want to live in an America without HSPs. They might point to interest rates, ever-growing national debt, ever-growing wealth of foreign bankers, and the less subtle anti-Semites might even directly criticize the generous and necessary aid that the US contributes to Israel, but I can hardly think of a more sensible use of taxpayer funds which are literally for the communal good. As the article says, White Americans are now almost at parity with Black Americans in this particular socioeconomic metric. We have a long way to go yet, but it's a start.

eloff 6y ago
I'm really struggling to understand if this is serious or satire. I think is serious, which is disturbing to me.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  Which is funny considering there are literally empty houses just sitting doing nothing right now. Our economy is so inefficient it's ridiculous.

robofanatic 6y ago

No problem until kids get married. Till then whats wrong with them staying with the family? They can pay rent (less than the market rate) to parents and manage expenses on their own. Its a total win-win situation. Stop shaming kids or parents who do that.

justinator 6y ago
Speaking purely for myself, I wanted to get out of the house as soon as possible - didn't know why. Looking back, my family was totally dysfunctional and toxic. Being in an atmosphere where I couldn't have left (due to things like the economy or whatever) would have been akin to being in an abuse romantic relationship, while living with my partner. But they don't make "safe houses" for 19 year olds trying to escape their parents. You're just homeless. Looking back, I should have ran away at ~16, things would have been much better.
- jasonv 6y ago
  I’ve always told people if they like their parents enough and the circumstances are positive, living with your parents longer can be a great option. I moved out of my parents’ home when I was 16 and never looked back. My 16 year old isn’t likely to be leaving anytime soon. He spends his evenings with his family and drives a good bit of the dynamics (game nights, weekend agendas, etc). He simply likes it at home. I’m vigilant about the time at which he’s probably going to need to separate in ways he hasn’t signaled yet, but for now, we’re all happy to be together. But he’s not 18 and in the job market and making an economic selection. But when the world is as crazy as it is now, maybe those who like their parents enough to return home are harbingers of something could that can come out of this — stronger familial connections. Certainly, my generation doesn’t seem to have it going backwards...
- diob 6y ago
  You hit the nail on the head. While others see their families as a support system, mine has always acted as the opposite. Similar to you, I wish I had gotten out earlier. I feel for all the folks who are forced to stay in abusive "support" systems just to survive.

chasd00 6y ago

I couch surfed for a couple summers in college and my wife full on lived in a car for a while before we met. We never thought of moving back in with our parents as an option. heh as soon as my little sister moved out my parents moved into a very small house, there would have been no where to sleep anyway. (I was born in '76 so sorta gen-x)

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

18 year olds and 29 year olds are worlds apart. Does anyone have these numbers broken down by smaller age groups? Given that universities are largely online only and dorms are closed, it’s not surprising that large numbers of college age students would be moving home. Including them with people in their late 20s muddies the waters.

vitus 6y ago
From the original Pew report: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-live-with-their-parents-for-the-first-time-since-the-great-depression/ft_2020-09-04_livingwithparents_03/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-... So, the increase was mostly driven by 18-24 year olds (both college-age as well as some new grads), who were already 2.4x more likely to live with their parents.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  A ton of college age students literally can not go to college right now. Are they included in these stats, or are college age students listed as living at home by default? I cannot make it out from the link. If so, this seems really obvious and that is was useless research.
  - vitus 6y ago
    The full news release from Pew [0] indicates that this is analysis of the monthly Current Population Survey [1] conducted by the Department of Labor. "The analysis of recent trends and characteristics is based on the monthly Current Population Survey (CPS), conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau for the Bureau of Labor Statistics." In particular, further in Pew's methodology section ("How we did this"), the authors note that the CPS counts all unmarried students in dorms as living with their parents. This is a pretty big caveat. However, this still indicates an shift of students living off-campus who moved back in with their parents. Additionally: "The Current Population Survey (CPS), also referred to as the household survey, is a monthly sample survey of 60,000 eligible households conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau for the Bureau of Labor Statistics The survey is conducted using a combination of live telephone and in-person interviews with household respondents." So, the shift is driven by surveys, rather than generic assumptions. That said, IMO, the value-add of this analysis is not the top-line number, but the relative shift (5% absolute increase _since February_). [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-live-with-their-parents-for-the-first-time-since-the-great-depression/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-... [1] https://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_over.htm https://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_over.htm

logicslave 6y ago

The government printed massive amounts of money over the last 15 years, which inflated financial assets. Now everyone who is younger cannot afford any of those assets, housing included. The boomers risked the economy in the early 2000s, caused the crash in 2008, and then printed money to save themselves. This has pushed younger generations into what is essentially financial slavery.

nogabebop23 6y ago
Hey, whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better. Yet somehow the several generation between you and the boomers managed to make a go of it; how did that happen? I employ a number of these new grads and pay a salary that will more than pay for them to own a home in our market; how is this possible in your alternative universe? Maybe before you throw the word slavery around you should give some thought to what that actually means. HINT: it's a little more harsh than living with your parents.
- logicslave 6y ago
  I work as a software engineer at FAANG, I will retire young. Basically anyone who is young that doesnt work as an engineer or didnt go to a top school is completely shut out of decent housing near decent cities. "Yet somehow the several generation between you and the boomers managed to make a go of it; how did that happen?" This argument makes zero sense. Was going to make a reply, but forget it
  - samatman 6y ago
    Yeah, "Gen X wasn't as badly screwed as the Millennials" isn't the slam-dunk argument it must have looked like when GP typed it out... Zoomers might be ok, though, if they keep their heads down and don't take student debt. The Boomers won't last forever.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    There are a lot of “decent cities” where you can afford a decent apartment working making $40K a year. Apartments in the burbs of Atlanta are around $700-$800 a month.

2Gkashmiri 6y ago

Serious question. Why does America have a fixation with moving out of your parents home? Why does this headline make it sound like some bad thing. Oh god!

nip180 6y ago
Americans have a fixation on independence and “making it” on your own is a way to demonstrate independence. —- Random well educated American.
atomicnumber3 6y ago
Do you live in the US? This is, roughly, the modern version of the american dream... Be born to a middle class family living in the suburbs of a major city. Go to k-8 and maybe learn a bit (it's mostly highly structured childcare with learning sprinkled on top). Go to high school, get good enough grades that you get into AP classes. Get enough AP credit that you enter the college of your choice with plenty of headroom for a 4-year degree. Then take 5 years to do a 4-year degree. Learn how to live alone and be responsible while at college. Graduate, get a nice entry-level job through connections you made at university making ~1.5x median household income for your city. Get married. Climb the corporate ladder and have kids. And so on. Obviously this is extremely specific, assumes a lot of privilege, and so on. But this is the path that will have your snooty aunt having nothing bad to say about you at Thanksgiving. The important think to note is that, basically after leaving high school, the above plan has you living outside your parents house (even if you're still not totally independent). Moving back home after college is a pretty big step down in freedom (don't have to sneak your dates out the back door before your parents wake up, among many many other things). So, from two different sides: one, people used to dorm or college living won't want to downgrade back to being under their parents' thumb to any degree. And two, being back in your parents' house post-high-school indicates a lot of things to potential partners and maybe even employers (though obviously decent ones won't ask or care..... but lots of employers aren't decent). It's totally just a cultural thing. I think it will probably shift fast here in the next 20 years though. There are a lot of people in the 23-29 age range who have found the american dream I described above to be a pretty shitty deal that isn't attainable for a large portion of the population.

booleandilemma 6y ago

Isn’t this the norm in Asia and other parts of the world? Why is there such a stigma in the US? Doesn’t it help people save money?

phobosanomaly 6y ago
It's an American thing. Our national identity revolves around the idea of liberty and freedom, and we mythologize the self-made person. See the current debate over firearms. Same deal. Individual liberty versus the good of the group. It's not rational, but it is who we are.

ponker 6y ago

I’m ~40 and my wife and three kids are living with my parents. With the pandemic it was very isolated to be by ourselves and we could WFH anywhere so are moving between my parents and my in-laws every few months. Kids are getting lots of grandparent time and lots of unauthorized screen time.

phobosanomaly 6y ago
In a time where more and more older people are feeling isolated, and kids are cut off as well that's wonderful to give them an opportunity to enjoy spending time with loved ones. Good for you guys.

in_cahoots 6y ago

My best friend lived with her parents until she got married. She went to a no-name college and became a teacher. I, along with my parents, spent 5 figures on a prestigious university and PhD, and I now work in Silicon Valley. With the money she saved on room and board she was able to put down a large down payment on a 0.5-acre house with her husband in New England. Meanwhile I am paying 5% interest on a jumbo loan. Who is the dummy here?

forrestthewoods 6y ago
You should be able to refinance that jumbo loan down quite a bit! Rates are real good right now.
- laughmayters 6y ago
  Banks are not offering jumbo refinances. All the houses in my neighborhood are 1m+, and they’re all off the market now because its not possible to secure a jumbo loan at the moment. My be region-dependent, IDK.
  - lukejduncan 6y ago
    I just refinanced a jumbo at sub 3%. Definitely happening.
    - gregorywlove 6y ago
      What institution? Wells, Bank of America, and a handful of boutique lenders in the Bay Area all recently stated they can’t offer anything below three.
      - lukejduncan 6y ago
        https://www.rate.com/loan-expert/nicole https://www.rate.com/loan-expert/nicole

gumby 6y ago

When I got married (me 26, spouse 23) my in laws assumed we would move in with them and had been putting together plans to remodel the house to adapt it. Her brother lived there until he married at 30, his wife with her parents until same. This was Western Europe. Many of my own relatives in India considered it sad that I had moved out before marriage and that We didn’t get a home in the same neighbourhood as my parents after marrying. These kinds of arrangements would have driven me bananas (and would if me own kid had to do it) but it’s pretty common.

jelliclesfarm 6y ago

What is wrong with this? Multi generational households function better than nuclear families. Disclosure : I grew up in a multi generational joint family with grandparents, parents, uncles, aunts and cousins.

polartx 6y ago
> I grew up in a multi generational joint family with grandparents, parents, uncles, aunts and cousins. That sounds miserable, TBH
- deleted 6y ago
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- ido 6y ago
  Why, assuming there's enough space for all of them? My grandparents lived 5 minutes walk from my parents when I was a kid & my uncle lived nearby with his family as well. Altogether 6 adults and 7 kids. It was fine and if we lived in 3 adjacent houses that would have probably only been better IMO.
  - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
    Multi generational family units that are also homesteads will be the future. Probably with robots and hydroponics rather than goats and hand weeding between turnips.

oblib 6y ago

My wife and have two of our children in the early 30s living with us. We're still in the house they were raised in. It's really pretty nice. It's not like we have to "parent" them, and we all know each other about a well as possible. We're still in the house they grew up in so it's really so familiar that it's not something my wife and I even think as being out of normal. It really doesn't make any sense for them to be paying rent and we've got a pretty sweet setup for hunkering down during this pandemic. We're surrounded by hard core "preppers" here. But really, it was pretty easy to see this kind of thing coming. It's not like we're in a full blown disaster of epic movie proportions but I think it's fair to say that it's been a lot easier on rural areas and families like where we live than most cities. We still can't know for sure but things might get tighter before they loosen up and that is when "family" becomes important. It nice to have a "family home" that we can all count on.

jseliger 6y ago
Until recently normal people in their 30s owned a housing unit and had a family of their own. That this seems difficult today says really bad things about our society and the public policy influencing society. I'd put housing policy at the top of the "bad public policy" list https://jakeseliger.com/2015/09/24/do-millennials-have-a-future-in-seattle-do-millennials-have-a-future-in-any-superstar-cities/ https://jakeseliger.com/2015/09/24/do-millennials-have-a-fut... but there are other reasonable candidates as well.
- oblib 6y ago
  I agree. From the 80s on the focus on housing has been on "McMansions" and we've ignored how that's really pretty wasteful and silly. We can do a lot better than that. We've seen a surge in "tiny homes" being designed but still not built at a rate that's made a dent. And what we really need are smaller family homes that are efficient and comfortable. There are a lot of "Pre-fab" homes here where we live. Those are pretty cost effective but they still don't have the appeal of craftsmen built home. There are some really cool old homes built out of rock here (Ozark Giraffe House). Most are pretty small by today's standards but they're great starter homes for young couples.

opportune 6y ago

Just to add another data point: I am currently working as a SWE at a large bay area software company and I recently moved home with my parents to a low COL area. Not everybody is living with their parents due to economic hardship. I could pay rent pretty much anywhere but chose to move in with my parents because I saw an opportunity (from WFH) to spend time with them + my dad is sick. And it's also nice that I'll save about $20-30k a year in living expenses, live in a less dysfunctional region than the Bay Area (though with different problems for sure), and have way more living space. I am pretty happy to not be beholden to the racket that is renting in a hot metro area. Yes, it's only possible because of Covid, but it's not forced or a negative like these articles can make it seem. Anecdotally I know many other bay area/large metro area software people who have done the same thing.

fny 6y ago
I'm in the same boat coming from NYC. WFH has been a godsend.
rconti 6y ago
I happily lived with my parents while I worked a tech job from 18-21. I'm almost 40 now, own a house, and am married. I won't "live with" my parents by any real definition, but with more WFH flexibility, I will absolutely be making the 7 hour drive to spend a week with them more often than I was able to before. My parents are awesome! And you only have so much time with them in this world -- they're in their 70s and 80s and I'm happy to have the flexibility to spend more time with them. I do make sure to get a covid test each time I visit, though. (currently visiting an aunt and uncle out-of-state, after a covid test and a 16 hour drive).

WarOnPrivacy 6y ago

I have 5 18-29 year olds living with me. Here's what we've learned. Few companies will talk to you without a job history. Of those, ~0 will hire you, if you lack average-to-above-average interview talent. For the vast bulk of entry level jobs, hiring is done via web portal. Once you've applied, you've applied. Try again a year later and they'll tell you that you've already applied[1]. In most of the US, you can't reliably get to work without a vehicle. You can't afford a vehicle (+ $300/mo insurance) without saving up months worth of income. If you have any physical limitation of any kind, just keep multipling the above difficulties, until you reach your actual reality. If you have a family member with limitations (eg: mental illness), you probably ought to multiply as well. [1] This held solid from well before 2010 until a few years ago. I've heard some portals now allow reapplying, eventually. I haven't confirmed that tho.

eklavya 6y ago

All I want to do is live with my parents in my hometown. That defines success for me. I worked from home for 3.5 years in a previous job and because of Covid I am getting to live with them again for last 6 months. It could be a cultural thing but I don’t think anybody in the world can love me as much as they do (possibly my wife and my sisters). Of course we fight at times but that’s just like any other relationship. I feel pity and anger when I hear of abusive parents here. If you didn’t want a kid you shouldn’t have had one.

iKevinShah 6y ago

I have had this doubt for a very long time and I feel HN is the right place to possibly get some non-defensive / non-trolls response to it. I am an Indian and here (I'd say most of Asia) we have a very strong culture of staying with parents, living together and everything. I mean unless absolutely required , kids do not live separately. What are your views on it, as a westerner? Except the financial angle.

zhoujianfu 6y ago
As a westerner (U.S., Caucasian) I’d say it’s not culturally the same... you’re sort of expected to move out, maybe stay near your parents (same metro)... but no social pressure/shame if you move three time zones away either. There’s more stigma for living with your parents than not. I guess if you own the house and your parents live with you, that’s fine. But if it’s their house, generally speaking after college “it’s time to leave the nest!“
- zanny 6y ago
  The irrationality of it really comes off as some subtle cultural manipulation by real estate moguls to profiteer off renters. I get the pressure is historic to the homesteading and rapid settlement of the country over the last 300 years but nowadays someone's got monetary interests in keeping the fire stoked.
socialdemocrat 6y ago
One thing I noticed when hanging around Indian friends in the past is that a lot of what they described as Indian culture has more to do with where a country is in terms of development. A lot of things they called “Indian“ is often just what it was in my country “Norway” during my grand parents generation or earlier. Staying with parents would be common here too in earlier times. A lot of western individualism grew as society transformed economically and technologically. As people got a lot fewer children, and children perhaps had to move further for work. Government had to start building out retirement homes as not all old people would have children who could take care of them. With more prosperity people also often want more independence and over time welfare services get better built out to help both the young and old. Over time your culture adapts to it. My mom would definitely not want to have me hanging around for long periods of time. But she likes that I bring the family over and stay in weekends and holidays. I know from Indian friends that you seem way more comfortable about being around a lot of people. As a Norwegian I hate being around too much people for a long time. I need plenty of alone time to feel well. But it can be too much. This COVID19 pandemic has been hard. I miss people from work. My family. Just walking in a crowded street.

LockAndLol 6y ago

How are these stats compared to the rest of the developed world? If I'm not mistaken, this is quite normal for Italy and Greece.

thomasfl 6y ago

There is a housing crisis. Birth rates will eventually go down. The real estate market is ready to be disruptet with new walkable cities. Based on modern human centered design on walkability, mixed use for businesses and housibg, bike friendly cities.

burfog 6y ago
Birth rates will go up because they are inheritable and because exponential growth always wins. The USA will be Amish. It's only a change in environment that can knock that down a bit, but exponential growth still wins. Birth control cut the birth rate for most people, but not for all. The resistant sub-populations are still on exponential growth even as the other sub-populations go through a population crash. It's as certain as math. Exponential growth wins.

wayanon 6y ago

I know an ex-Google ex-Facebook TechLead who will be nodding approvingly.

batsigner 6y ago
Guy is a scumbag.

ykevinator 6y ago

18 is vastly different from 29

stjohnswarts 6y ago

All that said it's not that bad 5% increase considering we're in the worst depression since the Great Depression.