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When Asbestos Was a Gift Fit for a King
- liability 6y agoI've heard this Charlemagne legend before but I'd love to see somebody put it to the test. I'm thinking the tablecloth would come out of the fire soiled with ash and bits of charcoal. I suppose it might still impress his guests but I don't think this party trick would work quite as well as the legend suggests. Also, 'Salamander Cotton' is a delightful name for asbestos.
- sandworm101 6y agoLess a tablecloth, more a placemat. And it is doubtful it was thrown onto the fire, where it would probably put the fire mostly out, rather than thrown into the fireplace to hang on something over the fire. There are also translation issues from royal to plain speak. Royals like this rarely did physical things. When the king is observed to "throw" something, it is more likely that he had it thrown by a servant who then placed the valuable object on a rack as planned. Readers of the time would not see a practical difference.
- liability 6y agoThat seems plausible, though not quite as cool.
- jacobwilliamroy 6y agoLike how Steve Jobs made the iPhone?
- saagarjha 6y agoLegend has it that he threw a development team and a multitouch capacitive display in a fire and then pulled a fully built, finished iPhone from the flames.
- labster 6y ago> Royals like this rarely did physical things. That might be true now but historically kings led armies into war, and had to be skilled enough to fight. We know the name of Charlemagne’s sword, Joyeuse.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- arethuza 6y agoAncient royal lines often start with someone who is, as Neal Stephenson would put it, a stupendous badass. e.g. The current UK Royal Family have these chaps as ancestors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_the_Bruce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_the_Bruce
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- agumonkey 6y agoA tiny video relating a lot of antique use of asbestos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EJ-4koV7m0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EJ-4koV7m0
- userbinator 6y agoIn the early 20th century there were similar demonstrations done by asbestos manufacturers, and at least some of those were recorded on film. Fire resistance was basically the main selling point of asbestos, so they certainly marketed that heavily. I recall watching a video on YouTube of one long ago, but can't find it at the moment.
- Codesleuth 6y agoAn exquisite read. The author (Amelia Soth) should be proud of something so captivating.
- PHGamer 6y agois asbestos really that bad? or is it the long term affects. if charlemagne just used it a show off thing in the diner would it have really mattered?
- t3rabytes 6y agoMy understanding is that it's only bad if disturbed and in the air. That's why popcorn ceilings, roof tiles, and insulation with asbestos is all "fine" and not mandated to be removed. But yes, the long-term effects are the real problem.
- aspett 6y agoYes. Breathing it's fibers can cause serious disease and cancer. Asbestos was used as a common building material in New Zealand for insulation, roof tiles, ceiling tiles and texturing and more in the 1950-1990 period. If you do any renovation or changes that interact with asbestos, it basically has to be handled by a hazmat team. https://ehs.oregonstate.edu/asb-when https://ehs.oregonstate.edu/asb-when > When is Asbestos Dangerous?
- liability 6y agoI think it was particularly lethal to miners and factory workers. One of my great grandfathers died years after working in a factory that made mittens out of asbestos. Any process that disturbs the asbestos is going to be risky.
- sandworm101 6y agoThe Navy. It was used to insulate pipes and stop fires from spreading. Ships are basically one giant confined space full of pipes and fire barriers.
- liability 6y agoIt's sadly ironic that a fireproofing material meant to save lives has killed so many (a great deal more than it plausibly ever saved.)
- aresant 6y agoBuild on this even in 1942, just prior to the discovery of the link to Mesothelioma, we were busily figuring out every use case we could for asbestos - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC8L8ooBSgQ&t=1m8s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC8L8ooBSgQ&t=1m8s Despite the recognition of Mesothelioma in the early 1900s it took almost 40 years to associate the disease with Asbestos. My understanding is that this was due to the 10 - 40 year average post exposure timeline for Mesothelioma to show up. If Asbestos was discovered today would our contemporary understanding of materials science & safety prevent us from spinning up factories and use cases like this? (1) https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/asbestosis/symptoms-causes/syc-20354637 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/asbestosis/sy...
- skellera 6y agoAt least we think about it. The miracle material, graphene, has properties that could potentially cause problems when breathed in [0]. So at least we know what to look for and can mitigate. That said, who knows what other material might come about that causes problems 40 years later in a different way. We will learn when it comes but at least we’re starting to be more aware of potential problems. [0] https://www.materialstoday.com/carbon/articles/s1369702112701013/ https://www.materialstoday.com/carbon/articles/s136970211270...
- ReptileMan 6y agoIf you really want to freak out - think xenoestrogens.
- dylan604 6y agoIf we know that certain materials have certain negative repercussions, can we extrapolate any of that learning to new materials to see if they have similar properties?
- shawnz 6y agoSomewhat related: carbon nanotubes have been shown to cause mesothelioma, just like asbestos
- ermir 6y agoFor those that are unaware, if you or a loved one was diagnosed with Mesothelioma you may be entitled to financial compensation.
- leptoniscool 6y agowho's paying out?
- mjamesaustin 6y agoFound this just searching: https://www.mesotheliomafund.com/ https://www.mesotheliomafund.com/
- Narkov 6y agoIn Australia, there are Government backed, employer funded workers compensation funds that will cover this. You can also sue the makes of the product as well. In my grandfathers case, he successfully sued a company called "James Hardie". It's a slam-dunk case. They confirm that you would have been exposed to the product and then it's a mathematical equation to determine the claim value.
- Fezzik 6y agoAt this point: almost no one. The super majority of manufacturers and distributers of asbestos products have gone bankrupt. Kaiser Gypsum was one of the last solvent companies involved in a lot of asbestos litigation and they filed for bankruptcy a few years ago. Bankrupted companies of this kind generally establish trust funds for claims related to asbestos products, but those funds pay out paltry amounts. There are a few other large solvent companies though, so it depends on what caused the likely exposure. If, like many people, a person got asbestosis or mesothelioma while in the armed services, they are SOL because the VA pays squat.
- mypalmike 6y agoI believe the parent post is sarcastically referring to the pervasive mesothelioma lawsuit commercials on US television.
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- Mitzz 6y agoThere is a fascinating 16 minute documentary about an Australian ghost town that once was a thriving asbestos mining town: Australia's Ghost Town: The contaminated city Wittenoom https://youtu.be/PaHw_bGI2ME https://youtu.be/PaHw_bGI2ME SPOILER ALERT: it turns out the town is not uninhabited.
- knolax 6y agoApparently asbestos has been used since at least 5000 years ago[0]. I wonder what prevented large scale extraction between then and the 19th century. [0] https://books.google.com/books?id=eYHEEWhye94C&pg=PA449#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=eYHEEWhye94C&pg=PA449#v=on...
- Polylactic_acid 6y agoFuck jstor
- aaron695 6y agoAsbestos is amazing and has undoubtedly saved many lives. But thanks to technology we can do even better, we don't live like Kings, we live better than Kings. (Those of us in the 1%, aka West)
- iamkroot 6y agoHas anyone compiled a list of all the everyday things that used belong only to the fabulously wealthy? Ice cream remains my favorite example.
- reyoz 6y agoFor a short backstory on Wittenoom, an former asbestos mining town in remote Western Australia see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3LDoI7H1Gc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3LDoI7H1Gc I once worked with an environmental engineer who had a grandfather that worked at Wittenoom. He passed away due to mesothelioma, but her father who grew up there has not been affected, which is quite amazing given the circumstances. I have seen footage from Wittenoom of children playing in mounds of asbestos. Today there are two general types of legacy asbestos products, friable and non-friable. Generally non-friable products such as asbestos-cement sheeting are considered safe to leave in place and are only dangerous when cut, broken or otherwise damaged. Friable products such as pipe lagging are very dangerous as they easily break down into fibers that can be inhaled. It can be found in many old homes in odd places. I was removing some old putty around a window and a friend of mine who was an asbestos hygienist suggested that it could contain asbestos and took a sample for testing (all clear thankfully). In another instance I worked on a demolition of a 1960's era multistory apartment complex. During construction of the concrete core walls the builder had used asbestos in the formwork, leaving some embedded in the wall at regular intervals. This meant that all of demolition waste was considered contaminated and was going to a special dump at a huge cost. Finally, there was an infamous case in Canberra, Australia where a company called Mr Fluffy [1] installed loose friable asbestos as insulation in homes. A cleanup program in the 90's did not adequately fix the problem and so in 2014 the government finally purchased affected properties and demolished the houses. Asbestos is bad stuff, but exposure causing mesothelioma seems to be a bit like Russian roulette. You might get it, you might not. But if you do, you will die. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Fluffy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Fluffy
- Gibbon1 6y ago> seems to be a bit like Russian roulette One of my dads friends had a business installing asbestos siding in the 1960's. He's in his 80's and seems fine. On the other hand his wife died of mesothelioma 20 years ago.
- verelo 6y agoMy father worked delivering asbestos, every one of his co-workers that did front line deliveries are dead, mostly lung health related issues seemingly related to asbestos. My dad is in his 60's and fine so far.
- userbinator 6y agoFranklin's asbestos purse can be seen here: https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/530102/view/benjamin-franklin-s-asbestos-purse https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/530102/view/benjamin-fran... You may also enjoy this 1940 book from an asbestos manufacturer: https://archive.org/details/LegendsOfAsbestosBeingAnIllustratedCompilationOfUnusualHistorical https://archive.org/details/LegendsOfAsbestosBeingAnIllustra...
- kristofferR 6y agoHaha wow, that didn't look as impressive as I imagined it. Were it hard/impossible to finely weave it back in those days?
- FriedPickles 6y agoDid we overreact in banning asbestos from everything? In many applications it seems well contained. Maybe we can use it if we're careful about its manufacture and disposal? UPDATE: Apparently it's not outright banned in the US, but it is in many other countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos#United_States
- dodobirdlord 6y agoIt’s dangerous in a way that’s hard to monitor. If asbestos consumer products were being used hazardously or disposed of improperly, it could go unnoticed for a long time and linger in the environment. Compare to something like lithium ion batteries, which are pretty dangerous if mishandled, but very obviously so and only for short periods of time.
- grawprog 6y agoIt's not just the danger in consumer products. Asbestos mining is incredibly dangerous and has led to serious health problems for thousands of people. https://mesowatch.com/asbestos-exposure/risk-industries/asbestos-mining/ https://mesowatch.com/asbestos-exposure/risk-industries/asbe... >Because of this enormous risk of death from asbestos exposure and general mining operations, many experts consider asbestos mining to be one of the most dangerous occupations in history.
- g8oz 6y ago>>Asbestos is the only exception; it’s the only rock that can be woven into cloth. Not true anymore. Basalt fiber is now commercially available.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y agoIf remelting counts then fiberglass would also be included.
- coding123 6y agoTiger's Eye. A rock that is pretty much stabilized (sealed) asbestos. It's pretty popular with kids. You can buy it at rock shops. And yes, if it breaks in half, get rid of all traces of it.
- interestica 6y agoThe town of Asbestos, Quebec, Canada is planning on changing its name this year to get away from the stigma. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/asbestos-quebec-change-name-1.5375703 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/asbestos-quebec-chan...
- jiggawatts 6y ago“Trump is on our side,” said Vladimir V. Kochelayev, chairman of the board of Uralasbest, one of the world’s few remaining producers of asbestos, citing what he said were reports that the Trump administration was easing restrictions on asbestos use. Remember the good old times, before the thousand deaths per day, when the President of the United States stepped in front of the television cameras and went on and on about the virtues of Asbestos to help out a struggling Russian town? Fun times, fun times... https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-asbestos-707642/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-as... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/07/world/europe/asbestos-russia-mine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/07/world/europe/asbestos-rus...
- zelphirkalt 6y agoFunnily "gift" in German means "poison" in English.
- Snild 6y agoIn Swedish, it can mean both "poison" (noun) and "married" (adjective).
- zelphirkalt 6y agoOK Swedish definitely wins. That's upping it by one, chuckles.