16 ms·

Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh is stepping down after 21 years

270 points by jchin 6y ago

willio58 6y ago
I've always heard mixed feelings about Tony. I wonder if there are any HNers who have a perspective they'd like to share.
- mathattack 6y ago
  No personal direct experience - I like that he was an experimenter. Great experimenters have lots of failures to go along with their successes. He made a great company in a way that went against the grain, and survived an acquisition from a buyer with a very strong culture.
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    No personal experience here, either, but word on the street last year was that he was widely disliked outside of Zappos. When I lived in Nevada, he was heralded as the future savior of downtown Las Vegas, having bought up a bunch of dead motels and vacant lots to transform into something new and better. Plenty of "tech disruptor" headlines in the newspapers. After a few years, when virtually nothing came of it other than a quirky-but-empty strip mall and a clubhouse for his hangers-on to gather in, there started appearing articles about people being unhappy with how things were going, and him in particular. Never heard about any strife from inside Zappos, though. https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/hsieh-lands-in-court-over-plumbing-problems-at-condos/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/hsieh-lands-in-court-... https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/nightclub-with-troubled-past-draws-downtown-projects-hsieh-into-court-battle/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/nightclu... https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/downtown-project-lays-off-30-workers-hsieh-role-unchanged/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/downtown-project-lays...
- seibelj 6y ago
  I am leery of any company that comes off with culty-vibes and that was the impression I got from various media I read and watched about it. I’m sure it’s great for business but not for me, I am free thinker. Same reason I think Ray Dalio / Bridgewater is an insane asylum. I briefly worked with someone who did a stint there and he embraced the principles / radical transparency thing and it made him extremely hard (even obnoxious) to deal with.
  - switch11 6y ago
    the radical transparency thing is very interesting When you embrace it, you will definitely piss off a LOT of people society is all about 'being polite' and 'wearing a mask' if you stop being polite and stop wearing masks, while still maintaining common courtesy life becomes MUCH easier I'll give you an example 2 of your friends have problems which prevent them from having a good relationship you have a frank talk with them Hey, Jack, you need to get over your abandonment issues and commit to a woman and marry her. You've passed on some pretty amazing women just because your father walked away when you were 4 Hi Sophie, perhaps the reason you only date losers is that is your type. Perhaps your type is guys who will cheat on you. Perhaps when your mother divorced your father after he cheated on her with her sister, his secretary, and the school principal, you should have realized that's genetically your type. So you can either accept that you are making this choice and be at peace with it, or you CHANGE your decision making process * guess what's going to happen usually, 1 of them will get mad at you, then realize you are right, and then make a change, and then your friendship will be much stronger and the other will hate you for life. Well not hate you. Will avoid you forever So that's what radical honesty and radical transparency does * of course you have to be prepared for people to also be radically honest with you you find out things that are painful. Then you have to decide whether you will embrace the honest feedback you are getting or run away from it
    - throwaway_dcnt 6y ago
      Yeah, that's not how it is used though. It is an alternate system of control with its own set of rules. It is creepy and dishonest to its core even if it works at the top, it certainly does not carry all the way down.
- tyingq 6y ago
  I interviewed there in 2007, and I got about 45 minutes with him. He's definitely really smart, and seems honest...but has some ideas that are pretty polarizing. It was clear to me in the first 5 minutes that I wouldn't fit in. Over the rest of the interview with various folks there was a distinct split of believers and "yeah this place is weird, but I can't leave just yet" groups. Pretty clearly it works though. Edit: One example. It's minor, but indicative of the weirdness. As a "visitor/interviewee", I was obligated to carry around a 6 foot flagpole with a sizable Zappos flag on it for the several hours I was there. Not a deal breaker by itself, but odd enough I knew the place wasn't for me, because there was probably more of the same coming. Maybe it was some kind of test?
  - Rapzid 6y ago
    That sounds entertaining TBH. Worked at a place a bit like that; could have been a test but as simple as seeing how you dealt with random fun.
- godzillabrennus 6y ago
  We share a mutual friend. Got a private tour of Zappos after they moved to Vegas. Seems like a good guy. The office experience is very unique. He also has a comic book: https://www.amazon.com/Delivering-Happiness-Profits-Passion-Purpose/dp/1610660242 https://www.amazon.com/Delivering-Happiness-Profits-Passion-...
- icelancer 6y ago
  I know him a little. He's as-expected based on all the writings on him, as most people will tell you. He's weird. Works his ass off. "Good" to his employees if you're into the cult-ish like environment he's about. Completely tanked DT Las Vegas project, but that was easy to call. Way out of his skillset. A pretty good guy I think. Always followed through with promises to the best of his abilities, never did me wrong. Just a weirdo. Which ain't so bad.
  - arkitaip 6y ago
    What's weird about being kind and considerate?
    - icelancer 6y ago
      That's not why he's weird. It's how he goes about it. I like Tony. And I don't personally think he's weird. But objectively... most people probably do and I understand why.
- switch11 6y ago
  he's a good guy built a good company AMAZING service Amazon tends to buy up all the companies that could become a threat to them, and then slowly kills them off (Zappos, Quidsi/Diapers.com, etc) What Tony could have and should have done is get someone like Marc Lore and have him expand Zappos to the EVERYTHING store Zappos customer loyalty was insanely high
- bredren 6y ago
  I spoke with Hsieh briefly after his talk at Draper University in 2015.[1] I was in Boost Accelerator for Gliph and our group got to sit in on some but not all of the guest lectures that season. (Elon also spoke, but we did not get to attend that one) Before Tony gave the above speech, Tim introduced Hsieh and his relationship in investing in Zappos. I may not have this quite right but I believe Tim talked about a time where either Hsieh needed bridge money and either Tim's fund or DFJ had to make a call on whether to bail out Zappos. IIRC, Tim or the fund he was managing chose not to bail out Hsieh. It may have been because of the 2000 crash, I can not remember. But Tim was very open about this decision and I believe the choice Tim made was not good for Tony at the time. I can’t say for sure, but I recall Tim saying it hurt their relationship. He told this story standing right next to Hsieh. I'm not sure exactly how but they worked it out, not only because Hsieh pulled through and raised capital elsewhere, but because he was there to give that talk in person. The relationship was clearly in good shape. Wish I could remember more details. I'll try to get them if the opportunity presents itself. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJP_EbqQ-XA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJP_EbqQ-XA
- digi59404 6y ago
  Worked at Zappos for a couple years. Worked closely with the incoming CEO Kedar. I might even say, I had a small role in his early rise. I don’t have a lot to share, and out of respect for folks privacy. I won’t share much. I will say this. Their customer service isn’t a lie and it’s good inside and out. But much of their culture is PR. Internally it’s far more toxic than you see on the exterior. It is cult like. I think Kedar is a solid person, and while him and I have our differences. I think he’ll make a great CEO and has the qualities needed. While his approach may be different than Tony’s approach. I don’t think it will be lesser, if that makes sense.
amrrs 6y ago
I first heard (about) him on a Podcast called How I built this. It's a good listen. https://www.npr.org/2017/01/23/510576153/zappos-tony-hsieh https://www.npr.org/2017/01/23/510576153/zappos-tony-hsieh
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  I first learned about him from reading about drunken Zappos employees ordering a 100x100 burger from In-n-Out http://whatupwilly.blogspot.com/2006/01/in-n-out-100x100.html http://whatupwilly.blogspot.com/2006/01/in-n-out-100x100.htm...
war1025 6y ago
I had no idea they were a 20 year old company. I assumed they were a fresh startup around 2015 or so when they started getting a lot of media traction. Maybe I was just out of the loop, but that's really surprising to me.
- jaxx75 6y ago
  You should read Delivering Happiness
  - egfx 6y ago
    This is a good guide for the young aspiring entrepreneur as well as an autobiography. He made a self narrated audio version that I highly recommend. It adds depth to hear his story narrated in his own voice.
- ajkjk 6y ago
  Indeed, and they've been owned by Amazon since 2009.
- bitwarrior 6y ago
  2015 was the year you personally started paying attention: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=zappos https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=z...
  - jheriko 6y ago
    I disagree this is broadly unknown outside of a niche... Even if the company practises seem to have had a knock-on effect. .. if the article is accurate of course.
ipsum2 6y ago
Does anyone know how his "The Downtown Project" (aka Vegas revitalization) is going?
- reaperducer 6y ago
  According to the newspapers, poorly. Very little to show for it.
  - blnqr 6y ago
    That's exactly right. The best bookstore in town shut down. The best coffee shop is still there, a wonderful place, but not much else, sadly. (Disclosure: I am a 24-year local in tech who really wanted it to work.)
    - prawn 6y ago
      Did he or others invest as much as was originally implied? I remember it being spoken of as a long-term project. If it was a little shipping container mall, that's a bit of a meagre attempt. You'd need to loss-lead dramatically to attract people across from The Strip to visit.
      - blnqr 6y ago
        Great question, and you hit it squarely: Hsieh and company did not invest the $350 million (!) as originally announced https://www.technologyreview.com/2013/07/17/15645/zappos-ceo-bets-350-million-on-a-las-vegas-startup-scene/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2013/07/17/15645/zappos-ceo...
        prawn 6y ago
        For just part of $350m, you could comfortably bankroll 20 small businesses to effectively create the dynamic you wanted. Couple that with some drawcards to lure tourists across, free travel, etc. That would've worked.
adaisadais 6y ago
One of my favorite (and definitely my Mom’s favorite) parts of Zappos is the hand written note that they send with each pair of shoes. My mom is an avid walker and she loves comfortable shoes so most birthdays and Christmas’s I send her a pair from Zappos. The hand written note is such a nice touch for such a big business (especially from a parent company like Amazon- the anti-personalizer) that it makes the gift of Zappos (or even the gift card) something fun to give and fun to receive. Tony, keep on experimenting! It makes it more fun for the customer.
- onionisafruit 6y ago
  I’ve never seen a note in my zappos order. Have I been inadvertently throwing away these notes for years?
  - milofeynman 6y ago
    I haven't either. Is it possible it's a "this is a gift" option?
    - marmshallow 6y ago
      It seems so. According to their blog post about it, they're writing cards specific to the life event - birthday, get well, etc. https://www.zappos.com/about/stories/pec-cards https://www.zappos.com/about/stories/pec-cards
- x87678r 6y ago
  Its amazing, this is so far away from what. If I got a hand crafted note I'd assume it was written under duress and not something I'd want to be party to.
- crazygringo 6y ago
  I've ordered many pairs of shoes from Zappos over the past decade and have never once received a hand-written note, or anything except just the shoebox inside of their white shipping box. I'm very curious why you get them when I don't...? :P
jerlam 6y ago
A few years back, I went to their office tour in Vegas, and I've read Hsieh's book, which doesn't cover much of the post-Amazon years. It seemed pretty clear to me that Zappos was in decline as an independent entity. Fulfillment was already gone. They were in the middle of removing their product photography team. A section of their office was being used as a community co-working space. There were fun quirky office areas but completely devoid of employees. It wasn't clear if Zappos did anything beyond customer service. I don't know if Tony Hsieh could really call himself a CEO anymore under Amazon's thumb. Zappos was really proud of their long weird onboarding process. They stress over and over their core values. You write and perform a skit about those core values to the company when you "graduate". At the end, if you don't think Zappos is the place for you, they'll pay you a few thousand dollars to leave. I'd imagine that people who aren't completely in love with the company would never go through this process.
- pb7 6y ago
  Interviewed there for an internship way back. It's basically a cult. I was relieved to find out other companies to be expectedly normal after having Zappos be my introduction to the professional world.
- nradov 6y ago
  Some people can pretend to believe anything for a paycheck.
  - specialist 6y ago
    Others need some kind of beliefs to rationalize the modest paychecks.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    There’s a fine line between trying to to welcome people to a new culture, and being creepy. Personally I find the “we’re a family” attitude of a lot of these places deeply offputting; most families won’t lay off members when things get tough economically, so let’s stop pretending that we’re doing this for fun.
- 6y ago
pcurve 6y ago
"In 2009, Zappos was acquired by online behemoth Amazon.com Inc. for 10 million shares of Amazon stock" Stock went up 30 times since then. I wonder many shares he kept.
- Paul-ish 6y ago
  It probably has split too.
  - bowmessage 6y ago
    It hasn't.
  - hkmurakami 6y ago
    Not in this time frame
  - newobj 6y ago
    It's never split in the 21st century.
- switch11 6y ago
  precisely the question I had in mind seems like a good dude. Hopefully he kept most of it
- rednerrus 6y ago
  That's $33,000,000,000 now.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
jheriko 6y ago
Today I learned this existed.
meddlepal 6y ago
Worked with someone that had bought into the cult of Zappos as an HR/Head of People/Whatever the fuck you want to call it these days. They were gross. The happiness culture is toxic and if you don't buy into it and aren't projecting rays of sunshine 24/7 from all your orifices you're expected to just fuck off.
- asdasfasdfasdf 6y ago
  Have you ever considered that you might be the problem? When I was younger I may have written a very similar comment about some places I've worked... and while I still agree that the environment wasn't my cup of tea... my intolerance of others was a bigger problem.
  - rimliu 6y ago
    Have you considered that he may not be the problem? It is known by now that too much sugar is bad for you. And for someone not raised on American diet of the dumb smiles and constant fake positivity that diet is indeed vomit-inducing. That comment may simply reflect the experience and frustration felt in such a place, it bears no indication how the op was acting there.
    - asdasfasdfasdf 6y ago
      Why are talking about sugar and diets? Why are you equating smiling with stupidity? This is an equally odd comment. The commenters reaction was so crass and off-putting that it's hard to believe that type of attitude didn't play a factor. To say we should ignore an extremely negative attitude that's criticizing positive attitudes seems hypocritical. If OP was trying to make a point against the concept of positive thinking, they utterly failed because of how they chose to word it... to the point that there are multiple other commenters pointing this out. You can make a reasoned argument against positive thinking without resorting to demeaning other people (and if you can't, then positive thinking might not be the problem).
- dboat 6y ago
  Your stance that they are overly intolerant would have more credibility if you had stated it more tastefully. As it is, you have lead me to believe your attitude was more likely the actual problem.
george120 6y ago
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betocmn 6y ago
I grew up in Brazil, where customer service was bad-to-terrible in 90% of the companies I had to deal with. When I moved to Australia, I thought it would be a lot better. It wasn't much different. When I joined a wine subscription startup in 2016 as the technical co-founder, I wasn't just building the recommendation engine. I was also helping to pack the boxes at the warehouse. We all got fascinated with Tony's book "Delivering Happiness" [1]. As I packed boxes, I listened to the audiobook several times. Then I read it later on again. I'm still surprised how bad customer service is in most companies. Don't talk to me like a robot. Just pretend you're messaging a co-worker in plain-friendly-English. And be genuinely interested in solving my issues knowing that you will have higher LTV in the long term if you invest the time and resources to make me happy now. A few years later and our customers are obsessed not just about the wine we recommend. They also write love letters about how happy they are to deal with our customer service team. I'm still writing code on the other side, but it makes my day to see that part of the business working so well. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6828896-delivering-happiness https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6828896-delivering-happi...
- backtoyoujim 6y ago
  Compensation goes a long way to making customer service agents care. So does equity.
  - mjayhn 6y ago
    Yeah my one call center experience involved cameras over everyones desk and the cruelest management team I've ever experienced that watched you like a hawk.
- all_blue_chucks 6y ago
  How do you measure your customer support staff performance? Many companies fire employees for having "low numbers" but since they can't measure tone, they end up driving their reps to optimize for other factors.
  - jrowley 6y ago
faramarz 6y ago
When he came out with his book, I read it cover-to-cover in a night and so enjoyed it for the engaging narrative. I wish him all the best.
Elnaxon 6y ago
He was interviewed a few years ago on "How I built this". https://www.npr.org/2017/01/23/510576153/zappos-tony-hsieh https://www.npr.org/2017/01/23/510576153/zappos-tony-hsieh
dvt 6y ago
I want to also counter-balance the negativity towards Hsieh with my own experience. From 2015-2017, I worked at Edmunds.com which was (to put it lightly) a bit obsessed with "Delivering Happiness" and Zappos' culture. So much so, that the leadership team visited Vegas to get a tour of the Zappos HQ (this was before I joined). But Edmunds based their entire cultural approach, including hiring, interviewing, and onboarding on Zappos. The Edmunds onboarding experience has been by far the best out of any company I worked at. Sure, it was silly games and scavenger hunts that didn't really have anything to do with "work," but I look back at the entire experience with a lot of nostalgia. I loved the onboarding so much, I've been contemplating doing a startup that literally just focuses on improving cultural onborading at companies. It made my first few months at Edmunds not only incredibly productive, but also intellectually and socially stimulating. And they were doing something right. Over there, I had the honor of working with one of the best managers I ever had (he's now at Amazon), and with one of the best software architects I've ever worked with (he's now at Facebook). My team was made up of motivated, smart, folks from all walks of life (recent grads to data science PhD's in their 50s). I still keep in touch with my old team even though we're spread all over these days: doing our own startups, at Facebook, Uber, Amazon, and beyond. I have the utmost respect for the cultural revolution that entrepreneurs like Tony Hsieh brought to the fore. People that call it a "cult" are missing the point. It's no more a cult than cheering for your school mascot or being in a club. We seem to forget that people are inherently social and need a sense of belonging.
- idoh 6y ago
  This is a really great comment. In your opinion was Edmunds.com able to translate this culture into business success?
  - dvt 6y ago
    It's hard to tell because I didn't have much insight (I was "just" an engineer); but I people loved working there and the folks on my team in particular were smart, interesting, and engaged.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
gkanai 6y ago
So 'holocracy' is a failure, alongside with Hsieh's fever dream of revitalizing downtown Las Vegas. Holocray was always a creepy idea to me.
- tyingq 6y ago
  It wasn't creepy to me, just unrealistic. Power structures form, whether you want them to or not. So 'holocracy' still has managers, it's just unpublished info who they are.
throwawaysea 6y ago
Zappos is an interesting experiment but I’m not sure what to make if it overall. It isn’t ubiquitous or commonly known to everyday consumers. The model of shopping online for something that requires personal fit just doesn’t make sense to most people. Hsieh has also made some strange choices internally like to reorganize using “circles” (holocracy). I’ve heard secondhand that this experimental approach to management didn’t work out in practice, that a lot of talent left, and that the circles ended up having organically emergent managers anyways.
CameronBanga 6y ago
I had the chance to meet Tony in 2009, ~early July. Looking at Wikipedia now, I guess it was a month before they sold to Amazon. I was part of the first "Zappos Insights" class. I was able to find my application, and posted it on Twitter, sorry anyone who sees it who was involved: https://twitter.com/CameronBanga/status/1298465073430700033 https://twitter.com/CameronBanga/status/1298465073430700033 No idea what people think of Zappos, their culture, and Tony in 2020. I was able to interact with him I guess via email and in person from ~2008-2010? Every interaction I had with Tony, and every story I heard, he was just Tony. Personally happy for him, as 21 years at the head of any clothing/fashion/design company has to be tough.
ponker 6y ago
This sounds like a forced exit. For the founder and CEO and basic Messiah of the company to leave with 0 days notice, and for the incoming CEO to be sending the notice, sounds like someone got their email terminated and walked off the property. Even CEOs who are fired for company performance sometimes get to send their own farewell letter: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2013/mar/01/groupon-andrew-mason-fired-letter https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2013/mar/01/grou...
watersb 6y ago
Thanks for the shoes. They served me well.

270 points by jchin 6y ago

I've always heard mixed feelings about Tony. I wonder if there are any HNers who have a perspective they'd like to share.

mathattack 6y ago
No personal direct experience - I like that he was an experimenter. Great experimenters have lots of failures to go along with their successes. He made a great company in a way that went against the grain, and survived an acquisition from a buyer with a very strong culture.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  No personal experience here, either, but word on the street last year was that he was widely disliked outside of Zappos. When I lived in Nevada, he was heralded as the future savior of downtown Las Vegas, having bought up a bunch of dead motels and vacant lots to transform into something new and better. Plenty of "tech disruptor" headlines in the newspapers. After a few years, when virtually nothing came of it other than a quirky-but-empty strip mall and a clubhouse for his hangers-on to gather in, there started appearing articles about people being unhappy with how things were going, and him in particular. Never heard about any strife from inside Zappos, though. https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/hsieh-lands-in-court-over-plumbing-problems-at-condos/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/hsieh-lands-in-court-... https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/nightclub-with-troubled-past-draws-downtown-projects-hsieh-into-court-battle/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/nightclu... https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/downtown-project-lays-off-30-workers-hsieh-role-unchanged/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/downtown-project-lays...
seibelj 6y ago
I am leery of any company that comes off with culty-vibes and that was the impression I got from various media I read and watched about it. I’m sure it’s great for business but not for me, I am free thinker. Same reason I think Ray Dalio / Bridgewater is an insane asylum. I briefly worked with someone who did a stint there and he embraced the principles / radical transparency thing and it made him extremely hard (even obnoxious) to deal with.
- switch11 6y ago
  the radical transparency thing is very interesting When you embrace it, you will definitely piss off a LOT of people society is all about 'being polite' and 'wearing a mask' if you stop being polite and stop wearing masks, while still maintaining common courtesy life becomes MUCH easier I'll give you an example 2 of your friends have problems which prevent them from having a good relationship you have a frank talk with them Hey, Jack, you need to get over your abandonment issues and commit to a woman and marry her. You've passed on some pretty amazing women just because your father walked away when you were 4 Hi Sophie, perhaps the reason you only date losers is that is your type. Perhaps your type is guys who will cheat on you. Perhaps when your mother divorced your father after he cheated on her with her sister, his secretary, and the school principal, you should have realized that's genetically your type. So you can either accept that you are making this choice and be at peace with it, or you CHANGE your decision making process * guess what's going to happen usually, 1 of them will get mad at you, then realize you are right, and then make a change, and then your friendship will be much stronger and the other will hate you for life. Well not hate you. Will avoid you forever So that's what radical honesty and radical transparency does * of course you have to be prepared for people to also be radically honest with you you find out things that are painful. Then you have to decide whether you will embrace the honest feedback you are getting or run away from it
  - throwaway_dcnt 6y ago
    Yeah, that's not how it is used though. It is an alternate system of control with its own set of rules. It is creepy and dishonest to its core even if it works at the top, it certainly does not carry all the way down.
tyingq 6y ago
I interviewed there in 2007, and I got about 45 minutes with him. He's definitely really smart, and seems honest...but has some ideas that are pretty polarizing. It was clear to me in the first 5 minutes that I wouldn't fit in. Over the rest of the interview with various folks there was a distinct split of believers and "yeah this place is weird, but I can't leave just yet" groups. Pretty clearly it works though. Edit: One example. It's minor, but indicative of the weirdness. As a "visitor/interviewee", I was obligated to carry around a 6 foot flagpole with a sizable Zappos flag on it for the several hours I was there. Not a deal breaker by itself, but odd enough I knew the place wasn't for me, because there was probably more of the same coming. Maybe it was some kind of test?
- Rapzid 6y ago
  That sounds entertaining TBH. Worked at a place a bit like that; could have been a test but as simple as seeing how you dealt with random fun.
godzillabrennus 6y ago
We share a mutual friend. Got a private tour of Zappos after they moved to Vegas. Seems like a good guy. The office experience is very unique. He also has a comic book: https://www.amazon.com/Delivering-Happiness-Profits-Passion-Purpose/dp/1610660242 https://www.amazon.com/Delivering-Happiness-Profits-Passion-...
icelancer 6y ago
I know him a little. He's as-expected based on all the writings on him, as most people will tell you. He's weird. Works his ass off. "Good" to his employees if you're into the cult-ish like environment he's about. Completely tanked DT Las Vegas project, but that was easy to call. Way out of his skillset. A pretty good guy I think. Always followed through with promises to the best of his abilities, never did me wrong. Just a weirdo. Which ain't so bad.
- arkitaip 6y ago
  What's weird about being kind and considerate?
  - icelancer 6y ago
    That's not why he's weird. It's how he goes about it. I like Tony. And I don't personally think he's weird. But objectively... most people probably do and I understand why.
switch11 6y ago
he's a good guy built a good company AMAZING service Amazon tends to buy up all the companies that could become a threat to them, and then slowly kills them off (Zappos, Quidsi/Diapers.com, etc) What Tony could have and should have done is get someone like Marc Lore and have him expand Zappos to the EVERYTHING store Zappos customer loyalty was insanely high
bredren 6y ago
I spoke with Hsieh briefly after his talk at Draper University in 2015.[1] I was in Boost Accelerator for Gliph and our group got to sit in on some but not all of the guest lectures that season. (Elon also spoke, but we did not get to attend that one) Before Tony gave the above speech, Tim introduced Hsieh and his relationship in investing in Zappos. I may not have this quite right but I believe Tim talked about a time where either Hsieh needed bridge money and either Tim's fund or DFJ had to make a call on whether to bail out Zappos. IIRC, Tim or the fund he was managing chose not to bail out Hsieh. It may have been because of the 2000 crash, I can not remember. But Tim was very open about this decision and I believe the choice Tim made was not good for Tony at the time. I can’t say for sure, but I recall Tim saying it hurt their relationship. He told this story standing right next to Hsieh. I'm not sure exactly how but they worked it out, not only because Hsieh pulled through and raised capital elsewhere, but because he was there to give that talk in person. The relationship was clearly in good shape. Wish I could remember more details. I'll try to get them if the opportunity presents itself. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJP_EbqQ-XA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJP_EbqQ-XA
digi59404 6y ago
Worked at Zappos for a couple years. Worked closely with the incoming CEO Kedar. I might even say, I had a small role in his early rise. I don’t have a lot to share, and out of respect for folks privacy. I won’t share much. I will say this. Their customer service isn’t a lie and it’s good inside and out. But much of their culture is PR. Internally it’s far more toxic than you see on the exterior. It is cult like. I think Kedar is a solid person, and while him and I have our differences. I think he’ll make a great CEO and has the qualities needed. While his approach may be different than Tony’s approach. I don’t think it will be lesser, if that makes sense.

amrrs 6y ago

I first heard (about) him on a Podcast called How I built this. It's a good listen. https://www.npr.org/2017/01/23/510576153/zappos-tony-hsieh https://www.npr.org/2017/01/23/510576153/zappos-tony-hsieh

Rebelgecko 6y ago
I first learned about him from reading about drunken Zappos employees ordering a 100x100 burger from In-n-Out http://whatupwilly.blogspot.com/2006/01/in-n-out-100x100.html http://whatupwilly.blogspot.com/2006/01/in-n-out-100x100.htm...

war1025 6y ago

I had no idea they were a 20 year old company. I assumed they were a fresh startup around 2015 or so when they started getting a lot of media traction. Maybe I was just out of the loop, but that's really surprising to me.

jaxx75 6y ago
You should read Delivering Happiness
- egfx 6y ago
  This is a good guide for the young aspiring entrepreneur as well as an autobiography. He made a self narrated audio version that I highly recommend. It adds depth to hear his story narrated in his own voice.
ajkjk 6y ago
Indeed, and they've been owned by Amazon since 2009.
bitwarrior 6y ago
2015 was the year you personally started paying attention: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=zappos https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=z...
- jheriko 6y ago
  I disagree this is broadly unknown outside of a niche... Even if the company practises seem to have had a knock-on effect. .. if the article is accurate of course.

ipsum2 6y ago

Does anyone know how his "The Downtown Project" (aka Vegas revitalization) is going?

reaperducer 6y ago
According to the newspapers, poorly. Very little to show for it.
- blnqr 6y ago
  That's exactly right. The best bookstore in town shut down. The best coffee shop is still there, a wonderful place, but not much else, sadly. (Disclosure: I am a 24-year local in tech who really wanted it to work.)
  - prawn 6y ago
    Did he or others invest as much as was originally implied? I remember it being spoken of as a long-term project. If it was a little shipping container mall, that's a bit of a meagre attempt. You'd need to loss-lead dramatically to attract people across from The Strip to visit.
    - blnqr 6y ago
      Great question, and you hit it squarely: Hsieh and company did not invest the $350 million (!) as originally announced https://www.technologyreview.com/2013/07/17/15645/zappos-ceo-bets-350-million-on-a-las-vegas-startup-scene/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2013/07/17/15645/zappos-ceo...
      - prawn 6y ago
        For just part of $350m, you could comfortably bankroll 20 small businesses to effectively create the dynamic you wanted. Couple that with some drawcards to lure tourists across, free travel, etc. That would've worked.

adaisadais 6y ago

One of my favorite (and definitely my Mom’s favorite) parts of Zappos is the hand written note that they send with each pair of shoes. My mom is an avid walker and she loves comfortable shoes so most birthdays and Christmas’s I send her a pair from Zappos. The hand written note is such a nice touch for such a big business (especially from a parent company like Amazon- the anti-personalizer) that it makes the gift of Zappos (or even the gift card) something fun to give and fun to receive. Tony, keep on experimenting! It makes it more fun for the customer.

onionisafruit 6y ago
I’ve never seen a note in my zappos order. Have I been inadvertently throwing away these notes for years?
- milofeynman 6y ago
  I haven't either. Is it possible it's a "this is a gift" option?
  - marmshallow 6y ago
    It seems so. According to their blog post about it, they're writing cards specific to the life event - birthday, get well, etc. https://www.zappos.com/about/stories/pec-cards https://www.zappos.com/about/stories/pec-cards
x87678r 6y ago
Its amazing, this is so far away from what. If I got a hand crafted note I'd assume it was written under duress and not something I'd want to be party to.
crazygringo 6y ago
I've ordered many pairs of shoes from Zappos over the past decade and have never once received a hand-written note, or anything except just the shoebox inside of their white shipping box. I'm very curious why you get them when I don't...? :P

jerlam 6y ago

A few years back, I went to their office tour in Vegas, and I've read Hsieh's book, which doesn't cover much of the post-Amazon years. It seemed pretty clear to me that Zappos was in decline as an independent entity. Fulfillment was already gone. They were in the middle of removing their product photography team. A section of their office was being used as a community co-working space. There were fun quirky office areas but completely devoid of employees. It wasn't clear if Zappos did anything beyond customer service. I don't know if Tony Hsieh could really call himself a CEO anymore under Amazon's thumb. Zappos was really proud of their long weird onboarding process. They stress over and over their core values. You write and perform a skit about those core values to the company when you "graduate". At the end, if you don't think Zappos is the place for you, they'll pay you a few thousand dollars to leave. I'd imagine that people who aren't completely in love with the company would never go through this process.

pb7 6y ago
Interviewed there for an internship way back. It's basically a cult. I was relieved to find out other companies to be expectedly normal after having Zappos be my introduction to the professional world.
nradov 6y ago
Some people can pretend to believe anything for a paycheck.
- specialist 6y ago
  Others need some kind of beliefs to rationalize the modest paychecks.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  There’s a fine line between trying to to welcome people to a new culture, and being creepy. Personally I find the “we’re a family” attitude of a lot of these places deeply offputting; most families won’t lay off members when things get tough economically, so let’s stop pretending that we’re doing this for fun.
6y ago

pcurve 6y ago

"In 2009, Zappos was acquired by online behemoth Amazon.com Inc. for 10 million shares of Amazon stock" Stock went up 30 times since then. I wonder many shares he kept.

Paul-ish 6y ago
It probably has split too.
- bowmessage 6y ago
  It hasn't.
- hkmurakami 6y ago
  Not in this time frame
- newobj 6y ago
  It's never split in the 21st century.
switch11 6y ago
precisely the question I had in mind seems like a good dude. Hopefully he kept most of it
rednerrus 6y ago
That's $33,000,000,000 now.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

jheriko 6y ago

Today I learned this existed.

meddlepal 6y ago

Worked with someone that had bought into the cult of Zappos as an HR/Head of People/Whatever the fuck you want to call it these days. They were gross. The happiness culture is toxic and if you don't buy into it and aren't projecting rays of sunshine 24/7 from all your orifices you're expected to just fuck off.

asdasfasdfasdf 6y ago
Have you ever considered that you might be the problem? When I was younger I may have written a very similar comment about some places I've worked... and while I still agree that the environment wasn't my cup of tea... my intolerance of others was a bigger problem.
- rimliu 6y ago
  Have you considered that he may not be the problem? It is known by now that too much sugar is bad for you. And for someone not raised on American diet of the dumb smiles and constant fake positivity that diet is indeed vomit-inducing. That comment may simply reflect the experience and frustration felt in such a place, it bears no indication how the op was acting there.
  - asdasfasdfasdf 6y ago
    Why are talking about sugar and diets? Why are you equating smiling with stupidity? This is an equally odd comment. The commenters reaction was so crass and off-putting that it's hard to believe that type of attitude didn't play a factor. To say we should ignore an extremely negative attitude that's criticizing positive attitudes seems hypocritical. If OP was trying to make a point against the concept of positive thinking, they utterly failed because of how they chose to word it... to the point that there are multiple other commenters pointing this out. You can make a reasoned argument against positive thinking without resorting to demeaning other people (and if you can't, then positive thinking might not be the problem).
dboat 6y ago
Your stance that they are overly intolerant would have more credibility if you had stated it more tastefully. As it is, you have lead me to believe your attitude was more likely the actual problem.

george120 6y ago

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betocmn 6y ago

I grew up in Brazil, where customer service was bad-to-terrible in 90% of the companies I had to deal with. When I moved to Australia, I thought it would be a lot better. It wasn't much different. When I joined a wine subscription startup in 2016 as the technical co-founder, I wasn't just building the recommendation engine. I was also helping to pack the boxes at the warehouse. We all got fascinated with Tony's book "Delivering Happiness" [1]. As I packed boxes, I listened to the audiobook several times. Then I read it later on again. I'm still surprised how bad customer service is in most companies. Don't talk to me like a robot. Just pretend you're messaging a co-worker in plain-friendly-English. And be genuinely interested in solving my issues knowing that you will have higher LTV in the long term if you invest the time and resources to make me happy now. A few years later and our customers are obsessed not just about the wine we recommend. They also write love letters about how happy they are to deal with our customer service team. I'm still writing code on the other side, but it makes my day to see that part of the business working so well. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6828896-delivering-happiness https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6828896-delivering-happi...

backtoyoujim 6y ago
Compensation goes a long way to making customer service agents care. So does equity.
- mjayhn 6y ago
  Yeah my one call center experience involved cameras over everyones desk and the cruelest management team I've ever experienced that watched you like a hawk.
all_blue_chucks 6y ago
How do you measure your customer support staff performance? Many companies fire employees for having "low numbers" but since they can't measure tone, they end up driving their reps to optimize for other factors.
- jrowley 6y ago

faramarz 6y ago

When he came out with his book, I read it cover-to-cover in a night and so enjoyed it for the engaging narrative. I wish him all the best.

Elnaxon 6y ago

He was interviewed a few years ago on "How I built this". https://www.npr.org/2017/01/23/510576153/zappos-tony-hsieh https://www.npr.org/2017/01/23/510576153/zappos-tony-hsieh

dvt 6y ago

I want to also counter-balance the negativity towards Hsieh with my own experience. From 2015-2017, I worked at Edmunds.com which was (to put it lightly) a bit obsessed with "Delivering Happiness" and Zappos' culture. So much so, that the leadership team visited Vegas to get a tour of the Zappos HQ (this was before I joined). But Edmunds based their entire cultural approach, including hiring, interviewing, and onboarding on Zappos. The Edmunds onboarding experience has been by far the best out of any company I worked at. Sure, it was silly games and scavenger hunts that didn't really have anything to do with "work," but I look back at the entire experience with a lot of nostalgia. I loved the onboarding so much, I've been contemplating doing a startup that literally just focuses on improving cultural onborading at companies. It made my first few months at Edmunds not only incredibly productive, but also intellectually and socially stimulating. And they were doing something right. Over there, I had the honor of working with one of the best managers I ever had (he's now at Amazon), and with one of the best software architects I've ever worked with (he's now at Facebook). My team was made up of motivated, smart, folks from all walks of life (recent grads to data science PhD's in their 50s). I still keep in touch with my old team even though we're spread all over these days: doing our own startups, at Facebook, Uber, Amazon, and beyond. I have the utmost respect for the cultural revolution that entrepreneurs like Tony Hsieh brought to the fore. People that call it a "cult" are missing the point. It's no more a cult than cheering for your school mascot or being in a club. We seem to forget that people are inherently social and need a sense of belonging.

idoh 6y ago
This is a really great comment. In your opinion was Edmunds.com able to translate this culture into business success?
- dvt 6y ago
  It's hard to tell because I didn't have much insight (I was "just" an engineer); but I people loved working there and the folks on my team in particular were smart, interesting, and engaged.
hn_throwaway_99 6y ago

gkanai 6y ago

So 'holocracy' is a failure, alongside with Hsieh's fever dream of revitalizing downtown Las Vegas. Holocray was always a creepy idea to me.

tyingq 6y ago
It wasn't creepy to me, just unrealistic. Power structures form, whether you want them to or not. So 'holocracy' still has managers, it's just unpublished info who they are.

throwawaysea 6y ago

Zappos is an interesting experiment but I’m not sure what to make if it overall. It isn’t ubiquitous or commonly known to everyday consumers. The model of shopping online for something that requires personal fit just doesn’t make sense to most people. Hsieh has also made some strange choices internally like to reorganize using “circles” (holocracy). I’ve heard secondhand that this experimental approach to management didn’t work out in practice, that a lot of talent left, and that the circles ended up having organically emergent managers anyways.

CameronBanga 6y ago

I had the chance to meet Tony in 2009, ~early July. Looking at Wikipedia now, I guess it was a month before they sold to Amazon. I was part of the first "Zappos Insights" class. I was able to find my application, and posted it on Twitter, sorry anyone who sees it who was involved: https://twitter.com/CameronBanga/status/1298465073430700033 https://twitter.com/CameronBanga/status/1298465073430700033 No idea what people think of Zappos, their culture, and Tony in 2020. I was able to interact with him I guess via email and in person from ~2008-2010? Every interaction I had with Tony, and every story I heard, he was just Tony. Personally happy for him, as 21 years at the head of any clothing/fashion/design company has to be tough.

ponker 6y ago

This sounds like a forced exit. For the founder and CEO and basic Messiah of the company to leave with 0 days notice, and for the incoming CEO to be sending the notice, sounds like someone got their email terminated and walked off the property. Even CEOs who are fired for company performance sometimes get to send their own farewell letter: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2013/mar/01/groupon-andrew-mason-fired-letter https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2013/mar/01/grou...

watersb 6y ago

Thanks for the shoes. They served me well.