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Mitochondria may hold keys to anxiety and mental health
- WantonQuantum 6y agoPresumably it's not the mitochondrial DNA itself that is causing the problem but rather chromosomal DNA (or some combination). If it were only mitochondrial DNA then it would be strongly heritable from the mother's side, which is not what we see.
- sjg007 6y agoHa.. my mom is super anxious as was her mom.. and me.. yep!
- WantonQuantum 6y agoYes, I definitely got my depression from my mother's side of the family. But as far as I'm aware, after controlling for environmental factors (such as amount of time spent with each parent, etc) there's no detectable bias toward maternal inheritance.
- nayeem-rahman 6y agothe power house of the cell
- keenmaster 6y agoWhat a durable educational meme. I think it shows the power of singularly concise descriptors when introducing a new subject. We need more of that.
- Terr_ 6y ago> the power of singularly concise descriptors Or the power of hackneyed sayings and satire :P
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- narayan_s 6y agoI was hoping to see one of these. Thank you!
- Terr_ 6y agoExactly what I thought of when they said: > “They’re the chief executive organelle of the cell.” Which IMO sounds odd, given that Mitochondria are seldom described as having much "decision making" power.
- wombatmobile 6y agoThey are the Duracell of the cell.
- Symmetry 6y agoWell, they do start the process of triggering apoptosis or cell suicide, for instance.
- koeng 6y agoFun fact: we still can’t genetically transform human mitochondria, and we’ve tried for decades
- peteretep 6y agoWhat would it mean to “genetically transform” a human mitochondria, and why are have we been trying to for decades?
- monocasa 6y agoMitochondria have their own genome; the parent is talking about editing that genome which has several fairly unique challenges above normal chromosomal DNA editing. That being said, there were recently some breakthroughs in this area: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02094-x https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02094-x
- koeng 6y agoUnfortunately we don’t have anything beyond editing yet :( We’ve known TALENs can edit for a while, but that breakthrough made it a lot more efficient.
- koeng 6y agoAdd new DNA into the human mitochondria. If you could do that, you unlock a massive amount of science around how mitochondria function, kinda similar to “what I cannot create I do not understand. From an engineer’s perspective, mitochondria are kinda the equivalent to virtual machines running on normal computers, as little “virtual cells” within cells. Their genomes are so stripped down that you can do some wild things with them.
- zaphirplane 6y agoNot to be confused with midi-chlorians that power the force :)
- loktarogar 6y agothe power house of the force
- CleanItUpJanny 6y ago@dang please institute age verification for Hacker News
- peteretep 6y agoCompletely left-field comment: > Carmen Sandi recalls the skepticism she faced at first. A behavioral neuroscientist at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, she had followed a hunch I feel like people use “radical ideas” like this to justify whatever their bullshit of the day is, and generally ignore the fact that they almost always come from experts in their respective fields.
- zwkrt 6y agoOne day we will have a full biological understanding of anxiety and mental health, at which point people will no longer need to change the world around them.
- Kaze404 6y agoI don't understand the connection.
- techer 6y agoDesire. Aversion. Desire. Aversion.
- wahern 6y agoAs explained by the nihilist Caterine Vauban (Isabelle Huppert ) to Albert (Jason Schwartzman) and Tommy (Mark Wahlberg) in I Heart Huckabees: "It is inevitable that you are drawn back into human drama: desire, suffering...." https://youtu.be/9EilqfAIudI?t=85 https://youtu.be/9EilqfAIudI?t=85 Pretty sure it's a riff on the traditional themes of Dharmic religions. (Not unique to them, though.)
- rexpop 6y agoAlthough "all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed," organisms have been known to alter our environments to suit our needs, rather than suffer them even to our deaths. For example, when it rains I often open an umbrella. Perhaps with the right anti-depressant cocktail, I wouldn't bother.
- aantix 6y agoI'm surprised that the role of Magnesium isn't discussed as well. "Mitochondrial Mg2+ homeostasis decides cellular energy metabolism and vulnerability to stress" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4960558/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4960558/ Anecdotally, I've been taking Magnesium l-threonate and it's probably the least anxious I've ever been in my entire life (I'm 42). The only thing comparable was Lexapro, but I always had a love/hate relationship because of the side effects.
- claytoneast 6y agoWhich product specifically do you use, if you don't mind me asking? I'd like to try it myself to see if it helps me as well.
- aantix 6y agoI use Life Extension's but there's plenty of brands out there. https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02032/neuro-mag-magnesium-l-threonate-powder https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02032... I take one scoop, 2-3 a day. Depends on how stressed I am. Always once in the morning. Sometimes in the afternoon (it seems to help my concentration stamina). Once close to bed. Ruminations have diminished. Anxiety greatly lowered. I still get sad, angry, etc. But those feelings seem to dissipate much quicker. Mentally I get exhausted less. N=1, of course. *I also take a calcium/vitamin d/zinc combo as well.
- alphachloride 6y agoIt's also the powerhouse of the cell.
- CleanItUpJanny 6y agoplease go back to reddit.com
- wombatmobile 6y ago> The organelles are ancient invaders — the remnants of symbiotic bacteria that integrated themselves into host cells about 2 billion years ago and specialized for energy production. That's accepted as scientific orthodoxy now, but it wasn't always. In the 1960's, evolutionary biologist Lyn Margulis proposed the theory that cell organelles such as mitochondria and chloroplasts were once independent bacteria, which combined through symbiotic mergers of bacteria to evolve into eukaryotic cells. Ernst Mayr called this "perhaps the most important and dramatic event in the history of life". Throughout her career, Margulis' work could arouse intense objection. One grant application elicited the response, "Your research is crap, do not bother to apply again", and her formative paper, "On the Origin of Mitosing Cells", appeared in 1967 after being rejected by about fifteen journals. In 2002, Discover magazine recognized Margulis as one of the 50 most important women in science. In 1995, Richard Dawkins said, "I greatly admire Lynn Margulis's sheer courage and stamina in sticking by the endosymbiosis theory, and carrying it through from being an unorthodoxy to an orthodoxy. I'm referring to the theory that the eukaryotic cell is a symbiotic union of primitive prokaryotic cells. This is one of the great achievements of twentieth-century evolutionary biology, and I greatly admire her for it."
- duncan_bayne 6y agoThese days she'd have angry Twitter mobs doxxing her for opposing the "scientific consensus", or YouTube shutting down her account for spreading "misinformation".
- adammichaelc 6y agoHaha probably true.
- gbrown 6y agoI mean... maybe, but probably not. Science has also learned a lot since then, and most skeptics aren’t scientists. Plausible cynicism grade: C-
- duncan_bayne 6y ago
- thelazydogsback 6y agoI recommend this book: "Mitochondria and the Future of Medicine: The Key to Understanding Disease, Chronic Illness, Aging, and Life Itself" -- by Lee Know https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1603587675 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1603587675
- rl3 6y ago>Lee Know, ND, is a licensed naturopathic doctor based out of Canada, and the recipient of several awards. Known by his peers to be a strategic and forward-thinking entrepreneur and researcher, he has held positions as medical advisor, scientific evaluator, and director of research and development for major organizations. Besides managing Scientific Affairs for his own company, he also currently serves as a consultant to the natural-health-products and dietary-supplements industries, and serves on the editorial advisory board for Canada's most-read natural health magazine. At least he's honest about his lack of medical expertise and conflict of interest.
- thelazydogsback 6y agoAnd? Do you have any particular problems with any actual insights in the book? Do you think the medical industry is forward-thinking or adverse to new ways of thinking in general? I don't want this guy removing my appendix, but there are many cases of people outside or peripheral to a domain without qualifications that make a huge impact on a particular area and lead the way for more research -- and we are all aware of the medical establishment's lack of proper training when it comes to nutrition.
- rl3 6y agoThe problem I have is they're attempting to sound authoritative via way of medical and scientific expertise while in fact having none, in addition to having a financial interest in pushing supplements. It severely impugns the credibility of the book. >Do you think the medical industry is forward-thinking or adverse to new ways of thinking in general? Both. It's so vast that sweeping generalizations don't really apply. >... but there are many cases of people outside or peripheral to a domain without qualifications that make a huge impact on a particular area and lead the way for more research ... Sure, but an ND with ties to the supplement industry ain't that. >... and we are all aware of the medical establishment's lack of proper training when it comes to nutrition. You could even argue the medically-recommended low-fat diet craze was one of the largest health disasters in modern history. Unfortunately it doesn't make this guy any more correct or rigorous in his opinions. Please understand this isn't a personal attack. I take supplements and aggressively fast every day precisely because I largely believe in the mitochondrial theory of aging. For all I know, everything in the book could be factually correct and not misconstrued. It doesn't change the fact the author is presenting themselves as a medical expert.
- m0zg 6y agoWhenever I see "X may hold keys to Y", I always augment it with "or it may not". In fact "may not" is the more likely outcome because if it did come anywhere close to "holding" the keys the headline would be affirmative. It's a variant of Betteridge's law, if you will.
- hoka-one-one 6y agoOk Ray Peat
- rexarex 6y agoMitochondria, the powerhouse of the cell
- CleanItUpJanny 6y agoplease return to the reddit.com comments section
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- techbio 6y agoRealizing mitochondria were the "powerhouse" due to a voltage gradient created by chemically transforming ATP to ADP across a membrane gave me a eureka moment about how small such a mechanism can be, and how powerful in great numbers.
- myvii 6y agoI wonder if there's a connection to Nicotinamide Riboside (NR) supplementation. NR is a precursor to NAD+, which has been shown to improve mitochondrial function especially under stress. NAD+ is one of those molecules used in a ton of metabolic processes and over a lifespan NAD+ avalability declines. This decline is linked to numerous age-related diseases. There's a bit of research showing NAD+ supplementation contributes to anti-aging effects. NR is easy to take, well-tolerated, and a cheap precursor for NAD+. There are IV clinics that have NAD+ infusions, but they cost like $500. On the other hand, you can get a month's supply of NR for around $50 (Thorne's ResveraCel).
- layoutIfNeeded 6y agoHm, but I was told it’s only in my head!
- tgv 6y agoThe article does not really warrant the title. The best evidence seems to be "a meta-analysis of 23 studies on mitochondria and anxiety: 19 demonstrated “significant adverse effects of psychological stress on mitochondria”", but that's the other way around. And there are of course many factors associated with anxiety and other mental health issues that do not seem related to mitochondria. Nobody is going to deny that a badly functioning component in your body can affect your mental health, and some of the mechanisms sound interesting, but not enough to call mitochondria the "key to anxiety and mental health". It's more like: an easily overlooked factor that can contribute.
- vwat 6y agoThis guy theorized that autism is caused by a problem with ATP and mitochondria. He did a trial of an old, obscure drug that blocks ATP receptors (for signaling, not metabolism) on young ASD patients and there was noticeable improvement in their symptoms. More studies are underway. http://naviauxlab.ucsd.edu/science-item/autism-research/ http://naviauxlab.ucsd.edu/science-item/autism-research/
- fasteo 6y ago>>> obscure drug that blocks ATP receptors In case you are wondering, Suramin[1] is the drug [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suramin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suramin
- starfallg 6y ago> In 1924, this man Boris Mikhaylovich Kozo-Polyansky wrote a book called Symbiogenesis: A New Principle of Evolution, in which he reconciled Darwin’s natural selection as the eliminator and symbiogenesis as the innovator. TIL that evolution is a GAN.
- dr_dshiv 6y agoHere is one of my favorite videos of mitochondrial transport, in vivo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5IxkI6tkn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5IxkI6tkn0 Apparently, there is a whole economy for transporting microchondria within dendrites. More mitochondria in an area of the dendrites allows for faster growth and responsiveness to input. (There is another time-lapse video I've seen before of mitochondrial transport, but I'm frustrated that my own browsing history isn't making it easier to find. Are there tools that help make ones own browsing history more useful/accessible?)
- podgaj 6y agoI am disabled with Anxiety and Mood Disorder and chronic fatigue/depression. Typical "Bipolar" presentation. It runs in my family on my mothers side. We also have a history of early (45 years old) heart disease. So I knew this was mitochondrial but it was revealed when I received my genome. We have issues with our electron transport chain; Complex I (ND1 and ND4) and Complex III (MT-CYB). So diet and lifestyle was crucial in getting me off all of my meds, and I was on a lot. High dose riboflavin was a huge help. Getting complex I to work well helps with the heart since it increases NAD. Also getting enough ubiquinone from diet helps. I get it mostly from seafood like Salmon and Liver. I might try and take a CoQ10 supplement soon. But the fact that we make it endogenously makes me think it is not needed. Statins will stop the production of CoQ10 by lowering FPPP production which is why they fail to help people with Heart Disease. Balancing the flow and the oxidative stress from the mitochondrial electron transport chain is crucial.
- tokai 6y agoDid you ever take lithium?
- podgaj 6y agoYes, both carbonate and orate. The carbonate, well that flattened me out of course, but it did not make me feel as good as I do now. (Which is not that good but much much better.) The ortate I took as an experiment wen I was more recently depressed and it made me hypomanic. This makes sense if you know Lithium inhibits IMPase and IPPase. And on the other side GSK-3. It is only at high doses that you get the NMDA and GABA effects. Which is too high IMHO. I still rely on Klonopin now and then when I mess up. (No, I do not take it everyday and I take the lowest dose possible, so don't bother telling me how dangerous it is.)
- tokai 6y agoThank you for your answer.
- pete762 6y ago> I am disabled with Anxiety and Mood Disorder and chronic fatigue/depression. Typical "Bipolar" presentation. It runs in my family on my mothers side. That sounds awfully familiar. Would you be so kind to provide any starting point to begin research into this, including the supplement stuff you mentioned afterwards?
- sradman 6y agoFor those, like me, who find this article too pseudo-sciencey, the paper Psychological Stress and Mitochondria: A Conceptual Framework [1] lays the foundation I was missing: > It is also interesting to note in the context of stress regulation that all steroid hormones, including glucocorticoids and sex hormones, are synthesized in a process that is regulated by, and occurs in mitochondria, further linking mitochondrial biology to stress signaling. Stress in this sense refers to all biological stressors such as physical exertion. Mitochondria, therefore, are not only central to energy production but also to stress response. This is simply how the system works. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5901651/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5901651/
- itsmarsu 6y agoAssuming the title is true, that'd make mitochondria the powerhouse of the self.
- Symmetry 6y agoMitochondria are really one of our cells' most under appreciated organelles and the consequences of them being "the powerhouse" are a lot more profound than you might think. I highly recommend Nick Lane's book on them, Power, Sex, Suicide: Mitochondria and the meaning of life, which explores the consequences of the biochemistry, population genetics, of mitochondria for how animals live in general. It's far more interesting than biochemistry has any right to be, along with his other books.
- podgaj 6y agoI agree. And thanks for that book recommendation. It is now on my list.
- reubenswartz 6y agoYes and his book "The Vital Question", which covers some of the same ground. Highly recommend.