18 ms·

Transparent OLEDs

189 points by ChuckMcM 6y ago

ChuckMcM 6y ago
For a long long time, science fiction movies have used transparent displays to seem more "futuristic." However, actual transparent displays have been underwhelming in practice. This technology is being use by Xaomi to make a "transparent TV"[1] which in theory you will be able to buy. (I realize that not all of these sorts of announcements survive until actual product shipment). It will be interesting to see one of these "in the flesh" as it were, I'm at a loss what you'd have behind it that wouldn't make it really really annoying to watch, but the cool factor could be right up there. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-transparent-mi-lux-china-specs-price-release https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-t...
- joshlemer 6y ago
  It would be cool if they could be used to implement a wearable HUD-style/face mask interface, like Google Glass but where the entire lens is the screen.
  - rspicer 6y ago
    You end up needing more complex optics to focus the image comfortably onto your retina at a distance that feels comfortable. An OLED display on a glasses lens with no other optics would just look like a bright blur between you and the rest of the world.
- korethr 6y ago
  Why not combine the two? Have your traditional opaque displays, then overlay the transparent system. I imagine this could be useful in court, allowing both the prosecution and defense to scribble on video evidence presented to the jury to point things out and highlight important bits, without ever modifying the underlying evidence video. Kinda similar to how sports commentators will use video overlay to scribble on replay segments to point out the movements of the various players to highlight why those movements were important and contributed to the outcome.
  - three_seagrass 6y ago
    Or double layered: Transparent black LED behind transparent OLED The black LED pixels can supplement the dark/opaque colors, while simultaneously supporting transparent colors with OLED pixels (i.e. like the png format).
- Impossible 6y ago
  Yes, I worked on a video game that was in the near future and had transparent and semi-transparent screens everywhere. I spent a lot of time adding new rendering features to the engine that did proper transparency sorting, blur/darkening passes and helping artists tweak materials to make them more readable. At multiple points in the project I wanted the art direction to switch to opaque screens. Not only because of the technical effort (in many ways that was fun) but just because how impractical they were in many scenarios.
  - NoSorryCannot 6y ago
    Tangentially related, the "futuristic" displays in video games and movies and TV often look worse than what we'd see in real life. Sometimes it's a hologram, which would be cool even if the fidelity were a bit shit, but it's interesting that art directors make them pretty bad looking even in fiction, presumably as a cue to the viewer that it's a hologram. Any fiction that portrays holograms as opaque and convincing usually plays it for surprise, because standard-issue holograms in fiction aren't convincing.
    - Negitivefrags 6y ago
      I was particulary offended by this in the recent Star Trek: Picard. In previous shows the Federation has demonstrated the ability to create totally flawless and interactable holograms. Yet somehow in this show everyone has switched over to glowly flickering interfaces hovering over your desk. In the headquarters of Star Fleet, a giant hologram of a star ship is in the atrium, and it glitches out for a moment as the camera looks at it just to let the viewer know it's a hologram. Not only is there no reason for holograms to glitch out all the time assuming that the technology could be created, but this TV series has already demonstrated their ability to do this much better!
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        ST:Picard and ST:Discovery are unfortunately both regressions where it comes to ST wordbuilding and style. Frankly, Lower Decks - currently airing animated "Rick&Morty meets ST:TNG" - does it better. Holograms there look and behave like they should.
- hbcondo714 6y ago
  Yup, Tony Stark's transparent phone looks futuristic: http://media.comicbook.com/uploads1/2015/01/tony-stark-transparent-phone-117585.jpg http://media.comicbook.com/uploads1/2015/01/tony-stark-trans...
- kurthr 6y ago
  Yep, contrast and color accuracy are terrible problems to solve. It would be easier to fake it with a camera on the back of the phone... like Merged Reality.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > science fiction movies have used transparent displays I always figured this was for cinematographic reasons. It lets you see what’s on the screen and the character’s face simultaneously.
- m463 6y ago
  I think it would be nice to have a transparent oled + e-ink display. Sort of an indoor-outdoor display.
  - skygazer 6y ago
    Interesting. My Palm V (palm pilot) had a nice transreflective display 20 years ago. It was great in direct sunlight. I often think of that when using devices that can’t crank up the nits enough to compete with sunlight.
- justinclift 6y ago
  The "transparent TVs" shipping last year seemed ok. From the Linus Tech Tips hands on review of one (Dec 2018), they seem like they're already useful for some scenarios. eg shop windows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yxs4IS9HXU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yxs4IS9HXU
  - ChuckMcM 6y ago
    That is pretty cool. I hadn't thought what it would be like with two of these back to back in a gaming situation. From the video you linked the opacity seems to be much better than I expected. I'm hoping one or more of the high end TV shops put this into their show room so I can see it in person.
    - justinclift 6y ago
      If creatively combined with the new "transparent Loos" in Japan, they could enable some pretty pretty funny pranks: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/18/loo-with-a-view-transparent-public-toilets-installed-in-tokyo-parks https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/18/loo-with-a-vie...
- hanniabu 6y ago
  Well for one it would be great to place on mirrors to "try on" clothes, or any kind of augmented reality like that. They can also be placed on your windshield for directions and other info like your speed. Gaming monitors with "designer" internals so that when your screen is off you can see the cool inside, similar to some watches with exposed gears.
  - grogenaut 6y ago
    you don't need a mirror for that. Just use a camera and a tv.
  - 7786655 6y ago
    You can already do the first one, just put a mirror in front of a regular display. The light from the display will be visible through the mirror.
- bojack_horseman 6y ago
  > It will be interesting to see one of these "in the flesh" as it were Transparent OLEDs are not that new, they have been around for a while. See this Thermostat by Johnson COntrols. https://www.amazon.ca/Thermostat-Johnson-Controls-Translucent-Touchscreen/dp/B079NF3YC5 https://www.amazon.ca/Thermostat-Johnson-Controls-Translucen...
jpeg_hero 6y ago
how do they do the black?
- mortenjorck 6y ago
  My first thought was "well of course they don't," but their concept renders do indeed have opaque black. I'm guessing these are just technically uninformed renders with no basis in actually-proposed applications, but it seems at least plausible that one could combine transparent OLED with a transparent LCD backing (sort of the inversion of a backlight) to create a variable-transparency screen.
  - ACAVJW4H 6y ago
    Pardon my ignorance but wouldn't LCD need polarized light to perform the darkening? Maybe a transparent pixelated electrochromic display layer might work
    - numpad0 6y ago
      LCD usually has polarization filters already glued to the back
    - heftig 6y ago
      The backlight of an LCD isn't itself polarized. A TN LCD display is made of two orthogonal polarization filters with the liquid crystals in between. In their relaxed (twisted) state, the crystals rotate the polarization of the light so that it can pass the second filter. When a voltage is applied, the crystals straighten and the second filter blocks the light.
- _jal 6y ago
  Dark-suckers. http://web.mit.edu/kolya/misc/txt/dark_suckers http://web.mit.edu/kolya/misc/txt/dark_suckers
- crazygringo 6y ago
  A basic transparent OLED screen doesn't, but is often slightly tinted, and (indoors) its pixels are bright enough that the transparent pixels are dark enough to appear black by comparison. The same way you can run a projector on a white wall during the day, and its "black" is just the normal wall color. But while I've never seen it, I don't see why you couldn't put a transparent OLED over an LCD screen like the one in your laptop. Combined, I think they'd give you every combination of color and opacity you could want. I don't know if there's any technology that combines the two capabilities into a single layer.
korethr 6y ago
Well, this would be another method for achieving heads up displays. Here's an application that I think would be really cool: HUD retrofits for cars. Take a transparent plastic film, stick it to the inside of your windshield in a similar manner like you would apply a tint film to the side and rear windows. Then, take the connector dangling from the corner of the film and connect it to the supplied box which connects to the ODB port, or some other standardized connector which connects it to the necessary vehicle systems. I could also totally see Tesla or one of the older luxury car brands doing something similar, where the HUD in the front windows is integrated into the car systems. IMO, the harder part will be not integrating the technology in this article (or something similar), but designing the HUD to be something actually useful and informative to the vehicle operator, affording them better, more informed control of their vehicle, instead of being some distracting thing that you can't disable.
- spollo 6y ago
  That would be cool for aftermarket HUDs. As far as making a useful HUD goes, some carmakers are already doing that. I have a 2019 Mazda CX-5 and it has a HUD that is projected on to the windshield. It tells me my current speed, the current speed limit of the road I am on, if there is a stop sign ahead, and if I run the GPS system it displays the next cross street, and arrow symbols for upcoming turns. I personally find it super useful! I don't need to look down at my instrument panel as my current speed gets sort of projected on road ahead of me. It's small and a barebones design but it works.
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    The thing you describe works by passing an image through lenses, and reflecting it off the windscreen. That way, you can focus on it and the road at the same time. For transparent OLED-based systems, you'd have to stare at the windscreen to look at them – so you wouldn't see them on the road; they'd look much nearer.
  - AuryGlenz 6y ago
    My 2011 Camaro also has a HUD, and I’d hate to go back to a car without it. I only use cruise control very infrequently, so being able to see what speed I’m going without taking my eyes off the road is great. I honestly think it should be a mandated feature.
retox 6y ago
I had an idea recently about creating slight-3D displays by stacking layer of LCD panels that give some impression of depth when moving your head, this might make that feasible.
- prutschman 6y ago
  You might find "tensor displays" interesting. https://web.media.mit.edu/~gordonw/TensorDisplays/ https://web.media.mit.edu/~gordonw/TensorDisplays/
  - retox 6y ago
    Thank you, it's not what I was thinking of but looks interesting. Seems like there is some history of multi-layer displays that I wasn't aware of, not that I took the idea any further than a "wouldn't it be cool if..." scenario.
- justinclift 6y ago
  Sounds like these, which seem to be in early stage production: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EA2FQXs4dw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EA2FQXs4dw
jmiller099 6y ago
Transparent OLED on subway video https://en.oledspace.com/a-closer-look-into-beijings-futuristic-subway/ https://en.oledspace.com/a-closer-look-into-beijings-futuris...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- wyattpeak 6y ago
  I can't tell if it's a feature of the screen or just the very dark nature of subway tunnels, but I really like the fact that the screen goes completely opaque on the bright blue screens. Transparent screens could be useful in all sorts of scenarios, but I think tech demos too often ignore the fact that, most of the time, you want the image to be as clear as possible, which means opaque.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    I'd love to see transparent screens in windows, like, real holes in buildings and furniture that are usually filled with glass. This would be a step towards ambient computing.
  - grishka 6y ago
    I wonder why no one suggested putting a very thin, transparent monochrome LCD behind one of these. It would allow darkening the background, as opposed to OLED's ability to emit light but not block it from passing through. Basically, you'd use two display technologies to complement each other.
- hanniabu 6y ago
  Direct link to video: https://youtu.be/WYFX3kI411w https://youtu.be/WYFX3kI411w
GICodeWarrior 6y ago
If you put your webcam behind your video chat window, you can achieve better eye contact with your remote participants. I wonder how well a webcam can see through these screens and/or how much of a hole would be required in the rendered image to avoid obstructing the camera.
- nullc 6y ago
  With the right level of integration the camera could subtract the image that is in front of it. That would requires having a pretty good model of the point spread function, perfect synchronization etc. OLEDs have a fast response... I wonder if it would be possible to put the camera shutter and the oled out of phase enough to substantially dim it. Perhaps polarization could be used to get better isolation. With all the engineering required to do it, it might be much less expensive to have three or four cameras at the edges of the display, then extract a depth map and resynthesize an view from the perspective of the centre of the screen. :) Plus that would give you bonus features like being able to automatically blur our or heavily denoise the background. :)
  - jstanley 6y ago
    > I wonder if it would be possible to put the camera shutter and the oled out of phase enough to substantially dim it. That's a neat idea. It reminds me of the early fighter planes that fired bullets between the propeller blades by having the gun driven off the engine, timed so that the bullet passes through the plane of the propeller while the blades are not in the way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_gear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_gear
  - crazygringo 6y ago
    > I wonder if it would be possible to put the camera shutter and the oled out of phase enough to substantially dim it. That is exactly the idea, to sync the camera to capture in between OLED pulses. It's not going to be perfect, but then to use computational photography to subtract whatever bleed of pixel color is left. In theory, it should be totally workable. In practice, I'm not sure what the tradeoffs are in terms of acceptable image quality and resolution for the camera.
crazygringo 6y ago
I'm excited for transparent OLED's simply so that laptops and monitors will be able to put the webcam behind the display, ~1/3 from the top. Then videoconferencing software can automatically move the image of the person you're talking to so their eyes are roughly centered on that point. And finally everyone gets to make direct eye contact again!
- xwdv 6y ago
  And then we fall into the uncanny valley and go back to how it used to be with no eye contact.
  - crazygringo 6y ago
    Not sure what you mean? I've used prototypes of this and there's nothing uncanny whatosever about it. It's seriously great. You can test it yourself one-way by just asking a friend to look into their webcam when talking to you. On your side, it'll look totally normal.
- mrfusion 6y ago
  I’m curious why software can’t correct this now? Messenger can make me look like a sheep, can’t it move my gaze?
  - rwc 6y ago
    Available in FaceTime: https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/22/facetime-eye-contact-correction-feature-to-launch-with-ios-14 https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/22/facetime-eye-cont...
  - crazygringo 6y ago
    It can, I've tried gaze correction software, but it has the unfortunate side effect of making the speaker look possessed. Total uncanny valley. We humans are sensitive to every tiny detail of the eye, because we express so much emotion through it. It's no joke that the "eye is the window to the soul". Gaze correction software literally winds up looking like it messes with your soul. Maybe someday we'll invent gaze correction that actually looks realistic -- but because it involves not just moving the eyeball, but opening/closing the eyelid (the eyelid moves as our eyes move vertically, like for a webcam), therefore moving the eyelashes, involving compensation with the lower eyelid, and more... it's going to be really hard.
hu3 6y ago
Xiaomi just released their transparent OLED TV. It looks surreal: https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-transparent-mi-lux-china-specs-price-release https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-t...
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  They did the same thing with bezel free phones: early adoption of Korean (LG) or Japanese (Sharp) display tech. I'm not sure what their angle is, but these early adopter products seem like one offs.
  - hu3 6y ago
    Yea it certainly takes courage. Their Xiaomi Mi Alpha bezel free phone was just as crazy! https://i.imgur.com/CYHISoC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/CYHISoC.jpg
Renaud 6y ago
Would this have anything to do with XioMi's announcement for their own transparent TV? https://blog.mi.com/en/2020/08/11/turning-moment-for-tv-industry-xiaomi-unveils-mi-tv-lux-oled-transparent-edition/ https://blog.mi.com/en/2020/08/11/turning-moment-for-tv-indu...
- Koshkin 6y ago
  You bet.
Slix 6y ago
Would this be useful for augmented-reality headsets?
- CarbyAu 6y ago
  Assuming the transparency (article says 70-80%) can be improved for clarity and the pixels small enough then it could be great. However you'd have to keep in mind that others looking at your face could see the same image. So don't go running that "X-RAY:make them appear naked!" app...
  - tln 6y ago
    Sunglasses block much more than 30% though. And can have a mirrored surface so others can't see your eyes, or your creepy app notifications :)
    - CarbyAu 6y ago
      Fair point re: sunglasses! Not sure "mirrored" would stop light being projected back through but may well help disguise it. Maybe a simple black LCD layer to block the outgoing light might help. Also, I don't want the creepy Xray app. But porn has this way of working into society/technology so I don't doubt for a second some form of that app will exist if it doesn't already.
      - tln 6y ago
        I definitely would want smart glasses that don't obviously look like smart glasses!
  - numpad0 6y ago
    Also it looks like a transparent phone held in front of your face without an optic
- namibj 6y ago
  Well, you get serious eye strain from focusing too close, so it would need optics to create a virtual image at a comfortable distance that your eyes can focus on. In reality some lens(es) take the screen's light and bend it so that the angles of the light rays correspond to the light of a screen at that comfortable distance, but your eyes can't tell, just like they can't tell that the things are actually smaller when you look through a good pair of binoculars.
Koshkin 6y ago
Do they emit light in all directions?
arthurcolle 6y ago
Are we finally going to get the transparent displays from sci-fi movies?
surround 6y ago
I can’t wait for this to be used in vehicles https://imgur.com/F2VHfjs https://imgur.com/F2VHfjs
nmstoker 6y ago
This sounds like it'll be good for sharper versions of the "magic mirror", a staple for maker projects.
bhouston 6y ago
Henry Danger, a show on nickelodeon has featured transparent phones and tablets for years. Seems like they were right that this was the future: https://opera.news/ng/en/technology/6a64c11b10e73b1e7f76cd12e0802a32?news_entry_id=s59219b5c200620en_ng https://opera.news/ng/en/technology/6a64c11b10e73b1e7f76cd12... https://nickalive.blogspot.com/2015/11/sneak-peek-of-new-henry-danger-episode_21.html?m=0 https://nickalive.blogspot.com/2015/11/sneak-peek-of-new-hen... http://nickalive.blogspot.com/2015/11/sneak-peek-of-new-henry-danger-episode_21.html http://nickalive.blogspot.com/2015/11/sneak-peek-of-new-henr...
- cthrufon3 6y ago
  Iron Man 2 had a transparent AR phone Mockups for transparent iPhones were floating around pre-iOS 7
- refresher 6y ago
  Phones in The Expanse as well.
acd 6y ago
Can transparent oled be used to shade house windows? Ie you output black color which block sunlight.
- robin_reala 6y ago
  You can already do that with smart glass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_glass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_glass
agumonkey 6y ago
Now make 80% reversible OLED so that the screen is powered and semi passive through ambient light.
ggm 6y ago
Could you make voxels by stacking them?
amateescu 6y ago
> Transparent OLEDs (TOLEDs) This looks like a missed opportunity for TROLEDs :)
maeln 6y ago
I really hope at some point they will have some pane available by the unit with normal retailer. I foresee some really cool HUD interface possible with a RPI :)
bookofjoe 6y ago
World's first transparent OLED TV https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-transparent-mi-lux-china-specs-price-release https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-t...
CSSer 6y ago
Isn’t a transparent monitor just a window with a HUD? My first thought was that this could have exciting use-cases in vehicles. However, aside from nighttime driving, the relatively poor brightness would likely quickly rule it out. Anyway, for a fun thought experiment, if I were thoroughly reviewing it for use I’d be most curious about its visual clarity when off (and perhaps durability, but to a lesser extent). How exactly does one measure contrast ratios when you have no idea what you’re contrasting against?
anon1253 6y ago
You could put an eInk display behind it, and have sort of a dual mode of interaction. If both can be constructed flexibly/foldable (with or without a hinge) I can see some very interesting designs. The ability of eInk to switch to black, or just display semi-permanent information with amazing readability and low power usage, while still having portions of the screen be high refresh rate and full color would be amazing.

189 points by ChuckMcM 6y ago

For a long long time, science fiction movies have used transparent displays to seem more "futuristic." However, actual transparent displays have been underwhelming in practice. This technology is being use by Xaomi to make a "transparent TV"[1] which in theory you will be able to buy. (I realize that not all of these sorts of announcements survive until actual product shipment). It will be interesting to see one of these "in the flesh" as it were, I'm at a loss what you'd have behind it that wouldn't make it really really annoying to watch, but the cool factor could be right up there. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-transparent-mi-lux-china-specs-price-release https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-t...

joshlemer 6y ago
It would be cool if they could be used to implement a wearable HUD-style/face mask interface, like Google Glass but where the entire lens is the screen.
- rspicer 6y ago
  You end up needing more complex optics to focus the image comfortably onto your retina at a distance that feels comfortable. An OLED display on a glasses lens with no other optics would just look like a bright blur between you and the rest of the world.
korethr 6y ago
Why not combine the two? Have your traditional opaque displays, then overlay the transparent system. I imagine this could be useful in court, allowing both the prosecution and defense to scribble on video evidence presented to the jury to point things out and highlight important bits, without ever modifying the underlying evidence video. Kinda similar to how sports commentators will use video overlay to scribble on replay segments to point out the movements of the various players to highlight why those movements were important and contributed to the outcome.
- three_seagrass 6y ago
  Or double layered: Transparent black LED behind transparent OLED The black LED pixels can supplement the dark/opaque colors, while simultaneously supporting transparent colors with OLED pixels (i.e. like the png format).
Impossible 6y ago
Yes, I worked on a video game that was in the near future and had transparent and semi-transparent screens everywhere. I spent a lot of time adding new rendering features to the engine that did proper transparency sorting, blur/darkening passes and helping artists tweak materials to make them more readable. At multiple points in the project I wanted the art direction to switch to opaque screens. Not only because of the technical effort (in many ways that was fun) but just because how impractical they were in many scenarios.
- NoSorryCannot 6y ago
  Tangentially related, the "futuristic" displays in video games and movies and TV often look worse than what we'd see in real life. Sometimes it's a hologram, which would be cool even if the fidelity were a bit shit, but it's interesting that art directors make them pretty bad looking even in fiction, presumably as a cue to the viewer that it's a hologram. Any fiction that portrays holograms as opaque and convincing usually plays it for surprise, because standard-issue holograms in fiction aren't convincing.
  - Negitivefrags 6y ago
    I was particulary offended by this in the recent Star Trek: Picard. In previous shows the Federation has demonstrated the ability to create totally flawless and interactable holograms. Yet somehow in this show everyone has switched over to glowly flickering interfaces hovering over your desk. In the headquarters of Star Fleet, a giant hologram of a star ship is in the atrium, and it glitches out for a moment as the camera looks at it just to let the viewer know it's a hologram. Not only is there no reason for holograms to glitch out all the time assuming that the technology could be created, but this TV series has already demonstrated their ability to do this much better!
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      ST:Picard and ST:Discovery are unfortunately both regressions where it comes to ST wordbuilding and style. Frankly, Lower Decks - currently airing animated "Rick&Morty meets ST:TNG" - does it better. Holograms there look and behave like they should.
hbcondo714 6y ago
Yup, Tony Stark's transparent phone looks futuristic: http://media.comicbook.com/uploads1/2015/01/tony-stark-transparent-phone-117585.jpg http://media.comicbook.com/uploads1/2015/01/tony-stark-trans...
kurthr 6y ago
Yep, contrast and color accuracy are terrible problems to solve. It would be easier to fake it with a camera on the back of the phone... like Merged Reality.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> science fiction movies have used transparent displays I always figured this was for cinematographic reasons. It lets you see what’s on the screen and the character’s face simultaneously.
m463 6y ago
I think it would be nice to have a transparent oled + e-ink display. Sort of an indoor-outdoor display.
- skygazer 6y ago
  Interesting. My Palm V (palm pilot) had a nice transreflective display 20 years ago. It was great in direct sunlight. I often think of that when using devices that can’t crank up the nits enough to compete with sunlight.
justinclift 6y ago
The "transparent TVs" shipping last year seemed ok. From the Linus Tech Tips hands on review of one (Dec 2018), they seem like they're already useful for some scenarios. eg shop windows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yxs4IS9HXU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yxs4IS9HXU
- ChuckMcM 6y ago
  That is pretty cool. I hadn't thought what it would be like with two of these back to back in a gaming situation. From the video you linked the opacity seems to be much better than I expected. I'm hoping one or more of the high end TV shops put this into their show room so I can see it in person.
  - justinclift 6y ago
    If creatively combined with the new "transparent Loos" in Japan, they could enable some pretty pretty funny pranks: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/18/loo-with-a-view-transparent-public-toilets-installed-in-tokyo-parks https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/18/loo-with-a-vie...
hanniabu 6y ago
Well for one it would be great to place on mirrors to "try on" clothes, or any kind of augmented reality like that. They can also be placed on your windshield for directions and other info like your speed. Gaming monitors with "designer" internals so that when your screen is off you can see the cool inside, similar to some watches with exposed gears.
- grogenaut 6y ago
  you don't need a mirror for that. Just use a camera and a tv.
- 7786655 6y ago
  You can already do the first one, just put a mirror in front of a regular display. The light from the display will be visible through the mirror.
bojack_horseman 6y ago
> It will be interesting to see one of these "in the flesh" as it were Transparent OLEDs are not that new, they have been around for a while. See this Thermostat by Johnson COntrols. https://www.amazon.ca/Thermostat-Johnson-Controls-Translucent-Touchscreen/dp/B079NF3YC5 https://www.amazon.ca/Thermostat-Johnson-Controls-Translucen...

jpeg_hero 6y ago

how do they do the black?

mortenjorck 6y ago
My first thought was "well of course they don't," but their concept renders do indeed have opaque black. I'm guessing these are just technically uninformed renders with no basis in actually-proposed applications, but it seems at least plausible that one could combine transparent OLED with a transparent LCD backing (sort of the inversion of a backlight) to create a variable-transparency screen.
- ACAVJW4H 6y ago
  Pardon my ignorance but wouldn't LCD need polarized light to perform the darkening? Maybe a transparent pixelated electrochromic display layer might work
  - numpad0 6y ago
    LCD usually has polarization filters already glued to the back
  - heftig 6y ago
    The backlight of an LCD isn't itself polarized. A TN LCD display is made of two orthogonal polarization filters with the liquid crystals in between. In their relaxed (twisted) state, the crystals rotate the polarization of the light so that it can pass the second filter. When a voltage is applied, the crystals straighten and the second filter blocks the light.
_jal 6y ago
Dark-suckers. http://web.mit.edu/kolya/misc/txt/dark_suckers http://web.mit.edu/kolya/misc/txt/dark_suckers
crazygringo 6y ago
A basic transparent OLED screen doesn't, but is often slightly tinted, and (indoors) its pixels are bright enough that the transparent pixels are dark enough to appear black by comparison. The same way you can run a projector on a white wall during the day, and its "black" is just the normal wall color. But while I've never seen it, I don't see why you couldn't put a transparent OLED over an LCD screen like the one in your laptop. Combined, I think they'd give you every combination of color and opacity you could want. I don't know if there's any technology that combines the two capabilities into a single layer.

korethr 6y ago

Well, this would be another method for achieving heads up displays. Here's an application that I think would be really cool: HUD retrofits for cars. Take a transparent plastic film, stick it to the inside of your windshield in a similar manner like you would apply a tint film to the side and rear windows. Then, take the connector dangling from the corner of the film and connect it to the supplied box which connects to the ODB port, or some other standardized connector which connects it to the necessary vehicle systems. I could also totally see Tesla or one of the older luxury car brands doing something similar, where the HUD in the front windows is integrated into the car systems. IMO, the harder part will be not integrating the technology in this article (or something similar), but designing the HUD to be something actually useful and informative to the vehicle operator, affording them better, more informed control of their vehicle, instead of being some distracting thing that you can't disable.

spollo 6y ago
That would be cool for aftermarket HUDs. As far as making a useful HUD goes, some carmakers are already doing that. I have a 2019 Mazda CX-5 and it has a HUD that is projected on to the windshield. It tells me my current speed, the current speed limit of the road I am on, if there is a stop sign ahead, and if I run the GPS system it displays the next cross street, and arrow symbols for upcoming turns. I personally find it super useful! I don't need to look down at my instrument panel as my current speed gets sort of projected on road ahead of me. It's small and a barebones design but it works.
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  The thing you describe works by passing an image through lenses, and reflecting it off the windscreen. That way, you can focus on it and the road at the same time. For transparent OLED-based systems, you'd have to stare at the windscreen to look at them – so you wouldn't see them on the road; they'd look much nearer.
- AuryGlenz 6y ago
  My 2011 Camaro also has a HUD, and I’d hate to go back to a car without it. I only use cruise control very infrequently, so being able to see what speed I’m going without taking my eyes off the road is great. I honestly think it should be a mandated feature.

retox 6y ago

I had an idea recently about creating slight-3D displays by stacking layer of LCD panels that give some impression of depth when moving your head, this might make that feasible.

prutschman 6y ago
You might find "tensor displays" interesting. https://web.media.mit.edu/~gordonw/TensorDisplays/ https://web.media.mit.edu/~gordonw/TensorDisplays/
- retox 6y ago
  Thank you, it's not what I was thinking of but looks interesting. Seems like there is some history of multi-layer displays that I wasn't aware of, not that I took the idea any further than a "wouldn't it be cool if..." scenario.
justinclift 6y ago
Sounds like these, which seem to be in early stage production: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EA2FQXs4dw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EA2FQXs4dw

jmiller099 6y ago

Transparent OLED on subway video https://en.oledspace.com/a-closer-look-into-beijings-futuristic-subway/ https://en.oledspace.com/a-closer-look-into-beijings-futuris...

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wyattpeak 6y ago
I can't tell if it's a feature of the screen or just the very dark nature of subway tunnels, but I really like the fact that the screen goes completely opaque on the bright blue screens. Transparent screens could be useful in all sorts of scenarios, but I think tech demos too often ignore the fact that, most of the time, you want the image to be as clear as possible, which means opaque.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  I'd love to see transparent screens in windows, like, real holes in buildings and furniture that are usually filled with glass. This would be a step towards ambient computing.
- grishka 6y ago
  I wonder why no one suggested putting a very thin, transparent monochrome LCD behind one of these. It would allow darkening the background, as opposed to OLED's ability to emit light but not block it from passing through. Basically, you'd use two display technologies to complement each other.
hanniabu 6y ago
Direct link to video: https://youtu.be/WYFX3kI411w https://youtu.be/WYFX3kI411w

GICodeWarrior 6y ago

If you put your webcam behind your video chat window, you can achieve better eye contact with your remote participants. I wonder how well a webcam can see through these screens and/or how much of a hole would be required in the rendered image to avoid obstructing the camera.

nullc 6y ago
With the right level of integration the camera could subtract the image that is in front of it. That would requires having a pretty good model of the point spread function, perfect synchronization etc. OLEDs have a fast response... I wonder if it would be possible to put the camera shutter and the oled out of phase enough to substantially dim it. Perhaps polarization could be used to get better isolation. With all the engineering required to do it, it might be much less expensive to have three or four cameras at the edges of the display, then extract a depth map and resynthesize an view from the perspective of the centre of the screen. :) Plus that would give you bonus features like being able to automatically blur our or heavily denoise the background. :)
- jstanley 6y ago
  > I wonder if it would be possible to put the camera shutter and the oled out of phase enough to substantially dim it. That's a neat idea. It reminds me of the early fighter planes that fired bullets between the propeller blades by having the gun driven off the engine, timed so that the bullet passes through the plane of the propeller while the blades are not in the way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_gear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_gear
- crazygringo 6y ago
  > I wonder if it would be possible to put the camera shutter and the oled out of phase enough to substantially dim it. That is exactly the idea, to sync the camera to capture in between OLED pulses. It's not going to be perfect, but then to use computational photography to subtract whatever bleed of pixel color is left. In theory, it should be totally workable. In practice, I'm not sure what the tradeoffs are in terms of acceptable image quality and resolution for the camera.

crazygringo 6y ago

I'm excited for transparent OLED's simply so that laptops and monitors will be able to put the webcam behind the display, ~1/3 from the top. Then videoconferencing software can automatically move the image of the person you're talking to so their eyes are roughly centered on that point. And finally everyone gets to make direct eye contact again!

xwdv 6y ago
And then we fall into the uncanny valley and go back to how it used to be with no eye contact.
- crazygringo 6y ago
  Not sure what you mean? I've used prototypes of this and there's nothing uncanny whatosever about it. It's seriously great. You can test it yourself one-way by just asking a friend to look into their webcam when talking to you. On your side, it'll look totally normal.
mrfusion 6y ago
I’m curious why software can’t correct this now? Messenger can make me look like a sheep, can’t it move my gaze?
- rwc 6y ago
  Available in FaceTime: https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/22/facetime-eye-contact-correction-feature-to-launch-with-ios-14 https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/22/facetime-eye-cont...
- crazygringo 6y ago
  It can, I've tried gaze correction software, but it has the unfortunate side effect of making the speaker look possessed. Total uncanny valley. We humans are sensitive to every tiny detail of the eye, because we express so much emotion through it. It's no joke that the "eye is the window to the soul". Gaze correction software literally winds up looking like it messes with your soul. Maybe someday we'll invent gaze correction that actually looks realistic -- but because it involves not just moving the eyeball, but opening/closing the eyelid (the eyelid moves as our eyes move vertically, like for a webcam), therefore moving the eyelashes, involving compensation with the lower eyelid, and more... it's going to be really hard.

hu3 6y ago

Xiaomi just released their transparent OLED TV. It looks surreal: https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-transparent-mi-lux-china-specs-price-release https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-t...

seanmcdirmid 6y ago
They did the same thing with bezel free phones: early adoption of Korean (LG) or Japanese (Sharp) display tech. I'm not sure what their angle is, but these early adopter products seem like one offs.
- hu3 6y ago
  Yea it certainly takes courage. Their Xiaomi Mi Alpha bezel free phone was just as crazy! https://i.imgur.com/CYHISoC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/CYHISoC.jpg

Renaud 6y ago

Would this have anything to do with XioMi's announcement for their own transparent TV? https://blog.mi.com/en/2020/08/11/turning-moment-for-tv-industry-xiaomi-unveils-mi-tv-lux-oled-transparent-edition/ https://blog.mi.com/en/2020/08/11/turning-moment-for-tv-indu...

Koshkin 6y ago
You bet.

Slix 6y ago

Would this be useful for augmented-reality headsets?

CarbyAu 6y ago
Assuming the transparency (article says 70-80%) can be improved for clarity and the pixels small enough then it could be great. However you'd have to keep in mind that others looking at your face could see the same image. So don't go running that "X-RAY:make them appear naked!" app...
- tln 6y ago
  Sunglasses block much more than 30% though. And can have a mirrored surface so others can't see your eyes, or your creepy app notifications :)
  - CarbyAu 6y ago
    Fair point re: sunglasses! Not sure "mirrored" would stop light being projected back through but may well help disguise it. Maybe a simple black LCD layer to block the outgoing light might help. Also, I don't want the creepy Xray app. But porn has this way of working into society/technology so I don't doubt for a second some form of that app will exist if it doesn't already.
    - tln 6y ago
      I definitely would want smart glasses that don't obviously look like smart glasses!
- numpad0 6y ago
  Also it looks like a transparent phone held in front of your face without an optic
namibj 6y ago
Well, you get serious eye strain from focusing too close, so it would need optics to create a virtual image at a comfortable distance that your eyes can focus on. In reality some lens(es) take the screen's light and bend it so that the angles of the light rays correspond to the light of a screen at that comfortable distance, but your eyes can't tell, just like they can't tell that the things are actually smaller when you look through a good pair of binoculars.

Koshkin 6y ago

Do they emit light in all directions?

arthurcolle 6y ago

Are we finally going to get the transparent displays from sci-fi movies?

surround 6y ago

I can’t wait for this to be used in vehicles https://imgur.com/F2VHfjs https://imgur.com/F2VHfjs

nmstoker 6y ago

This sounds like it'll be good for sharper versions of the "magic mirror", a staple for maker projects.

bhouston 6y ago

Henry Danger, a show on nickelodeon has featured transparent phones and tablets for years. Seems like they were right that this was the future: https://opera.news/ng/en/technology/6a64c11b10e73b1e7f76cd12e0802a32?news_entry_id=s59219b5c200620en_ng https://opera.news/ng/en/technology/6a64c11b10e73b1e7f76cd12... https://nickalive.blogspot.com/2015/11/sneak-peek-of-new-henry-danger-episode_21.html?m=0 https://nickalive.blogspot.com/2015/11/sneak-peek-of-new-hen... http://nickalive.blogspot.com/2015/11/sneak-peek-of-new-henry-danger-episode_21.html http://nickalive.blogspot.com/2015/11/sneak-peek-of-new-henr...

cthrufon3 6y ago
Iron Man 2 had a transparent AR phone Mockups for transparent iPhones were floating around pre-iOS 7
refresher 6y ago
Phones in The Expanse as well.

acd 6y ago

Can transparent oled be used to shade house windows? Ie you output black color which block sunlight.

robin_reala 6y ago
You can already do that with smart glass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_glass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_glass

agumonkey 6y ago

Now make 80% reversible OLED so that the screen is powered and semi passive through ambient light.

ggm 6y ago

Could you make voxels by stacking them?

amateescu 6y ago

> Transparent OLEDs (TOLEDs) This looks like a missed opportunity for TROLEDs :)

maeln 6y ago

I really hope at some point they will have some pane available by the unit with normal retailer. I foresee some really cool HUD interface possible with a RPI :)

bookofjoe 6y ago

World's first transparent OLED TV https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-transparent-mi-lux-china-specs-price-release https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21363861/xiaomi-oled-tv-t...

CSSer 6y ago

Isn’t a transparent monitor just a window with a HUD? My first thought was that this could have exciting use-cases in vehicles. However, aside from nighttime driving, the relatively poor brightness would likely quickly rule it out. Anyway, for a fun thought experiment, if I were thoroughly reviewing it for use I’d be most curious about its visual clarity when off (and perhaps durability, but to a lesser extent). How exactly does one measure contrast ratios when you have no idea what you’re contrasting against?

anon1253 6y ago

You could put an eInk display behind it, and have sort of a dual mode of interaction. If both can be constructed flexibly/foldable (with or without a hinge) I can see some very interesting designs. The ability of eInk to switch to black, or just display semi-permanent information with amazing readability and low power usage, while still having portions of the screen be high refresh rate and full color would be amazing.