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The scale of their IP theft is incredible. The CFO survey said it is happening to 1 in 5 US corporations, which is incredible if you think about it - but the t
by Wolfenstein98k 6y ago
The scale of their IP theft is incredible.
The CFO survey said it is happening to 1 in 5 US corporations, which is incredible if you think about it - but the trouble is the scale is larger than that, when you include what they steal via surveillance too.
I can't see an answer outside of decoupling, seeing as they're set on their path and proud of it.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/1-in-5-companies-say-china-stole-their-ip-within-the-last-year-cnbc.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/1-in-5-companies-say-china-s...
- matz1 6y ago>I can't see an answer outside of decoupling Maybe stop relying on IP as your business strategy ? Always be innovating so that you always be one step ahead those who copying.
- rbecker 6y agoIn this context, IP includes trade secrets, industry know-how, and human expertise. Strip away the IP, and only inventory and manual labor is left.
- zozbot234 6y ago> IP includes trade secrets, industry know-how, and human expertise These are the hardest kinds of IP to reproduce or "steal", though. I can believe that direct infringement of formal IP rights might be an issue, but this sort of more 'tacit' knowledge is a different ballpark.
- true_religion 6y agoTrade secrets and human expertise are incredibly easy to steal, but in the US at least trade secrets are protected by law unless explicitly disclosed to the public and human expertise is constrained by non compete agreements. On the other hand, for a country, any company operating within its boarders using is ripe for exploitation. Unless a foreign company uses 100% foreign workers, and eschews all government inspections, then the knowledge is already exposed to your citizens. With the way CCP policy is, if a trade secret is exposed to anyone on China, it’s effectively lost completely since the government can directly disclose it to who ever they wish.
- zozbot234 6y agoNon-compete agreements are quite weak in California, and yet that's where much of the U.S. technology industry is located. This suggests that weaker enforcement of such "protection" can actively promote growth, not just exploitation.
- Gibbon1 6y agoThey aren't hard to steal when your building another companies products for them. Eventually you're the one that has all that not them. 20 years ago I was saying the mistake American Businessmen were making is they thought they somehow owned all those factories in China. And they did not at all. Since then Chinese companies have been taking over design as well. You spec it, they figure out how to build it at scale. All that IP they own not you.
- Wolfenstein98k 6y agoHow do you out-innovate a country which has less regulation, more intrusive surveillance, more factories ready to churn out whatever you invent, more workers (and Uighur slaves) ready to do the labour for less, and no qualms about stealing anything and everything you come up with and copying it at a scale you can't possibly match?
- matz1 6y agoMaybe try do the same thing? Less regulation, more factory, more monitoring doesn't always mean bad thing. Cheap worker can probably be replaced with advance automation. I disagree that its a "stealing", you still have the knowledge.
- Hoasi 6y agoEscalation may not be an efficient tactic, especially in this case, it would also mean a downgrade for businesses and consumers who benefit from said regulation in many countries.
- innagadadavida 6y agoOne option is to enforce some standards for trade - no slave labor, limit number of hours worked, environment protections etc. Thus way we all are playing by the same rules. This won’t be easy to implement - most western democracies can be corrupted by money and influence and CCP can easily buy with money.
- andrewnicolalde 6y agoAre you actually being downvoted for suggesting this?!
- paulie_a 6y agoSabotage that the plans
- Thorncorona 6y agoPerhaps we could stop dismantling the domestic economy by implementing policies that reward domestic investment? Huge swaths [0] of the country are losing their livelihoods due to offshoring and monopolistic practices. [0] https://policybynumbers.com/economic-stagnation-and-electoral-discontent-in-the-rust-belt https://policybynumbers.com/economic-stagnation-and-electora...
- cheez 6y agoKnowledge creation and discovery is the engine of economies today. You might as well say "why don't you let everyone live in your house for free" People who create need to be able to benefit from that creation.
- zozbot234 6y agoKnowledge creation and discovery always builds on previously discovered and created knowledge. There are many ways of benefiting from this activity, even more so without a formal IP-based business strategy.
- cheez 6y agoPlease, describe something sustainable that doesn't involve keeping it secret.
- DeonPenny 6y agoIf you have to keep doing that why would you. If I wanted to start a company the smart thing to do would create a company called Orange Computers, steal a modified version of iOS call it iOP and then undercut apple because I didn't have to pay for RnD
- matz1 6y agoYou can but you are in mercy of Apple for the product roadmap or future update and you may not understand the product as intimately as Apple. They may also have server side components that would be very difficult to copy.
- fuzxi 6y agoWhy would he care? He makes his money and if, for whatever reason, he can't continue copying Apple, he can simply ditch the company and start a new clone of a different product.
- matz1 6y agoSure but doesn't mean Apple or whatever company that being copied can't make money too.
- DeonPenny 6y agoWho says I would be at their mercy, for example look at Google and Android. Does it seem like Samsung is waiting for Google's release. Google has the most knowledge of Android yet doesn't sell nearly as may phones. The only reason google continues this is because they make money from search, but if they had to make money from phones they'd have gone under.
- matz1 6y agoYes that's the point, google can still have make money despite samsung copying by using different strategy.
- naringas 6y agoIt's far worse, USA needs their entire economy to stop relying on IP
- Gibbon1 6y agoMy belief is the reason the US is suddenly freaking out about China is a) China is now creating their own IP. Because of course once you outsource manufacturing all the engineering and technical skill quickly follows. The next generation of products doesn't get designed in the US, it gets designed in China. b) China being flush with cash is now moving into international finance. You can imagine how well that's going over in the financial centers of the indebted west.
- goatinaboat 6y agoonce you outsource manufacturing all the engineering and technical skill quickly follows. This is obvious to any trained Western engineer who knows that manufacturing is a sophisticated engineering discipline in its own right, and once you master it, the other branches of engineering naturally follow. Western managers however, believed that the Chinese would be content to do just manufacturing forever, and were incapable of doing design. A classic example of how racism bites you in the arse. Having said that none of those managers will suffer, they've already cashed out.
- oefrha 6y agoSounds impressive, then you read the article and realize they surveyed 23 companies in total. I don’t even know what’s 1 in 5 in that context. Four? Five?
- seebetter 6y ago> One in five North American-based corporations on the CNBC Global CFO Council says Chinese companies have stolen their intellectual property within the last year. In all, 7 of the 23 companies surveyed say that Chinese firms have stolen from them over the past decade. I don’t see this as a minimized fact.
- innagadadavida 6y agoThe rest of them could be silent due to pressure from CCP. So this problem might be more widespread than companies are reporting.
- ooobit2 6y agoPressure from equity holders, which happen to be Chinese logos. Someone shared an example on HN yesterday of Tencent, the largest gaming company. Chinese-owned, and owns major stakes in nearly a dozen of the largest game publishers and storefronts. Everything from Epic Games to Activision Blizzard, from Ubisoft France to the studio behind PUBG and the studio behind League of Legends. Path of Exile, Clash of Clans, Call of Duty Online... a Chinese mega-conglomerate has significant investments in all of them.
- dathinab 6y agoFor people which don't beliv it, just visit Amazone and see how many "fake" YYY products are sold which do not only have the same functionality (might be legal) but also have the exact same design, copied from designs of companies where you can be pretty sure they do create design patents for all kinds of things. Worse this look alike fakes are often placed above the original products when you search for the product even when you include the brand name, I mean surely they are cheaper both in price and quality. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against cloning the functionality of an product, I just don't like look-alike clones which can be easily mistaken for the original by people not aware of Amazons problems (I have seen it happen a view times with people in my family.)
- Thorncorona 6y agoHonestly are you really surprised? It's been going on for almost 40 years. Any exec saying they're surprised by this is disingenous at best, and lying at worst. If an exec sees a 40 year long pattern and decides to continue working with China, they're either incompetent or deciding that the potential profits are worth it. To turn around and act surprised by this is like acting surprised that Trump keeps saying inflammatory things.
- Spooky23 6y agoIf true, how is the management of the American companies aware of this theft still doing business there? How come the Feds will prosecute bribery form foreign officials, but not the CEO or COO allowing corporate property to be stolen?
- ackbar03 6y agoCause it's still profitable to them and good business.