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Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

236 points by samsolomon 6y ago

bwasti 6y ago
perhaps title "Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed" for context?
- dang 6y ago
  Changed now. Thanks!
pwinnski 6y ago
I read the article, then was surprised to see that the comments here are focused to much on the clothing part of the story, rather than the investment and financing parts of the story. They way VC is described in the story seems familiar to me from time spent working for Bay-area startups, and I think the critiques in the story apply in tech as well.
- Shivetya 6y ago
  Well DTC is moving through a lot of non perishable industries as many do understand how much power retailers have over the manufacturer of products they sell. Just as the article mention RTVs and discounting forced upon the manufacturer grocery has been doing this for ages, even down to the point of forcing sales on a schedule, charging for end cap space or specific aisles. One issue the fashion industry also faced is that for the last few years it really felt as if America was pulling back from celebrity worship. That is good thing and part of that means not having to keep up with the Kardashians, whether their TV show or the brands they sport. With so many in the music industry called out in #METOO; excepting one glaring genre; there was pull back there as well. DTC has made it sort of in perishables through Instacart and such push many manufacturers DTC through proxies like Amazon and more. As for sweats, as an ex who used to model when young always told me, sweats don't judge.
  - draw_down 6y ago
    > With so many in the music industry called out in #METOO; excepting one glaring genre It’s interesting to watch people get their little digs in on here, I’ll say that.
- swang 6y ago
  I'm guessing because the unique outlier is about the fashion. Lots of other articles on HN about investment/financing
the8472 6y ago
> Now a global pandemic had hit. He couldn’t foresee that. No one did. Some people did. Taiwan prepared after SARS. Of course nobody forsaw all possible consequences but it would be better to say that not everyone has the capacity to account for all possible tail risks.
- papito 6y ago
  "When the next pandemic occurs (and make no mistake, it will) and the federal government is unable to respond in a coordinated and effective fashion to protect the lives of US citizens and others, this decision by John Bolton and Donald Trump will be why." -Stephen Schwartz, on Twitter, May 2018 People knew. Also, Americans don't really have the habit of factoring in major events outside of their control into their long term strategy. It will be ok. The danger is "over there". The oceans will protect us.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    Alternatively, this was Trump's 9/11 -- the threat the President+Cabinet knew was coming and intentionally unprotected the nation from, in order to manufacture an excuse to retaliate against a tangentially connected enemy.
    - dane-pgp 6y ago
      As conspiracy theories go, that one perhaps hits hardest because of the "banality of evil" aspect to it.
      - Der_Einzige 6y ago
        I don't see what is arendtian about this...
    - 3131s 6y ago
      To those downvoting... Why is Bandar bin Sultan still free? Why was information suppressed by congress concerning Bandar sending $130,000 to the two 9/11 hijackers? Why has the Bush family never been questioned about their close friendship with Bandar?
dgut 6y ago
font-size: 30px; max-width: 600px; Is it just me who has difficulties reading this article on desktop?
- nhooyr 6y ago
  Yea, the design is very poor on desktop.
- giancarlostoro 6y ago
  They probably wanted it to look good on their insane high resolution screen judging by the font... They shoulda sized it in em and not pixels specifically. OTOH reader mode on firefox fixes any of that nonsense.
  - jahewson 6y ago
    The em unit is relative to the inherited font size. If you don’t specify an absolute font size or inherit one then you inherit the user agent default for the <body> which is 16px.
    - giancarlostoro 6y ago
      It gets worse, I had to follow up[0] on what you've said, but if the parent element is also using EM the size keeps increasing. Namely according to the MDN docs I read: > To recap, the em unit means "my parent element's font-size" in the case of typography. The <li> elements inside the <ul> with a class of ems take their sizing from their parent. So each successive level of nesting gets progressively larger, as each has its font size set to 1.3em — 1.3 times its parent's font size. So REM is what you probably want if you intend to do some nesting and use the parents root font-size, set it once, apply it everywhere. TIL what em really does, versus what rem does. [0]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/CSS/Building_blocks/Values_and_units https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/CSS/Building_...
- klyrs 6y ago
  It looked like crap on my phone, too. Reader mode ftw
kazen44 6y ago
The collapse of the fashion industry does not mean the clothing industry will collapse. People still need clothing obviously (cheap and of good quality preferably). Also, what do we consider the fashion industry exactly? Most long term clothing trends seem to be dictated by a couple of factors. Consisting of: - practicality. Jeans are good example of this. It's cheap and practical clothing that lasts a long time. - cultural "requirement": clothing that is required to fit into social circles. The shirt would be a good example of this, aswell as the tie. - Enviromental requirements: This one should be obvious ofcourse, No one wears a wool jacket in abu dabi. Fast fashion and the fashion industry as a whole seems incredibly wasteful to me. Buying new clothing because of yearly trends is way to damaging to the enviroment for what it's worth.
- ghaff 6y ago
  That's true. But, even allowing for specialty clothing that they don't wear all that much and clothing that doesn't fit quite right, etc. but they haven't gotten rid of, most people have way more clothing than they really need. Even for generous values of need.
- MagnumPIG 6y ago
  > cultural "requirement": clothing that is required to fit into social circles. The shirt would be a good example of this, aswell as the tie. So... fashion?
  - kazen44 6y ago
    yes, it is fashion. But it has a far slower pace of change then the fashion industry. Formal attire for males got out of style a couple of decades ago, but besides the suit (and tie) mostly dying, most people still wear shirts to work.
- taurath 6y ago
  (All comments on culture US centric) - This thinking is why the men’s section is 1/4 as large as the women’s in most stores. Culturally for men clothing is supposed to be above all practical. There are 5 genres of men’s clothes - business (pressed shirts, suits), casual, workout, skater, and comfort (hoodie). Contrast this with the women’s section. Women have an expectation to express themselves and their personality. There are all sorts of “impractical” cuts, flairs, colors, layers to choose from. There’s a shoe for every occasion. You can get dramatically different fabrics, feels, and touches. Not even going into accessories. There is certainly a sea change happening in fashion retail, but it’s more that like everything else it’s accelerating things that are already going on. People were trending less formal almost everywhere in the workplace, except NYC, SF and LA (or in high touch industries like real estate or law). Your H&Ms are best positioned to survive, where everyone already knows that Macy’s is on its last legs.
mthoms 6y ago
I'm saddened by the job losses, but the fashion industry (esp. the high end) seems nothing but a toxic drain on society and the environment. New "trends" dictated by celebrities and designers every year do nothing but sow personal insecurities and environmental destruction. Good riddance.
- dominotw 6y ago
  > Good riddance. Its just a manifestation of human need to be in a hierachy. Makes no sense to me to attack a particular symptom. I can think of a lots examples more destructive than fashion expensive cars single family homes with 5 bedrooms and 4 toilets yatches driving/flying vacations suburbs/ need for "space" overeating meat I think its a common kneejerk reaction against fashion in nerd circles because we never found it useful and something that played to our negatives. A complait that has very little to do with the environment, really.
  - DoingIsLearning 6y ago
    That is an unnecessary ad hominem. There is nothing kneejerking about being against 'fast fashion'. The fashion industry is the second-largest consumer of the world's water supply. [0] The fashion industry produces 10% of all humanity’s carbon emissions. [0] For comparison it produces more carbon than international flights and maritime shipping combined. [0] The wastefulness of it all is even more dismaying. 85% of the world's textile production ends in a landfill every year.[0] I agree that all the things in your list are as non-essential as the fashion industry but none of them (except maybe for the meat industry) have the business volume and carbon impact of the fashion industry as it currently operates. None of this is sustainable. [0] https://www.businessinsider.nl/fast-fashion-environmental-impact-pollution-emissions-waste-water-2019-10 https://www.businessinsider.nl/fast-fashion-environmental-im...
- sunstone 6y ago
  A male has entered the chat.
  - 6y ago
MattGaiser 6y ago
Good riddance. The majority of my clothing spending was for rarely worn social compliance items like a suit, ties, and nice shoes.
- ghaff 6y ago
  My spend is probably: #1: Specialty clothing for outdoor activities, etc. #2: Stuff for day-to-day travel and (when I used to regularly go into an office--which hasn't been for years) day-to-day office. This clothing isn't particularly expensive but gets stained/worn over time. I have dress clothing but I wear it so seldom that I'm pretty sure I'll never buy another tie or likely another suit.
dredmorbius 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-culottes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-culottes
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  Now that golfers no longer wear knickerbockers, I guess we're all pretty much sans-culottes. (How about 3/4 pants among the patagucci crowd?)
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    My thought was more of the dramatic shifts in fashion which can follow a sudden political and economic shock, as with the French Revolution. Fashion evolves toward ever greater complexity as a Veblen status-signalling good, then recapitulates. Often it is lower-class wear which emerges as the new standard, then progresses through the cycle again, often being elevated to the status of elite wear: dinner jackets, morning coats, longe suit, three-piece suit, dungarees, designer jeans, button-downs and khakis, etc. Several of those transitions followed major shocks: WWI, Great Depression, WWII, the Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam movements especially. The 2001, 2007, and 2020 economic panics similarly, though the last most notably IMO. (Arguably Fast Fashion was a business response to the 2007-9 crisis.) The fast-fashion trend seemed heading for a fall. Covid-19 delivered the kick. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_suits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_suits
    - 082349872349872 6y ago
      See Homage to Catalonia for fashion change to lower-class wear and back, changing with the fortunes of the republic. Rule of thumb: the waitstaff in restaurants wear what the patrons had been dining in, before the last fashion shift. In the Coming Age of Formal Sweatpants, I'm guessing the front of the house will adopt button-downs and khakis. (Browsing old pictures makes it clear the Iron Curtain was pervious to even minor changes in fashion. There may have been ideological opposition among the elites on both sides, but not only did We look, from the oh-so-distant viewpoint of the twenty-first century, silly in our wide lapels or legwarmers, They did too.)
neonate 6y ago
https://archive.is/vDYqU https://archive.is/vDYqU
hmmazoids 6y ago
Honestly I like some aspects of the fashion industry -- shoes, hats, even shirts or collar shirts all have some personality you can showcase who you are and give yourself an identity (I think that's what makes fashion kinda interesting). However, pants? It's not really that different. I could care less lol
- loughnane 6y ago
  Remind me of this[0] Calvin and Hobbes strip [0] https://thecomicninja.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/calvin-and-hobbes-individuality.gif?w=640 https://thecomicninja.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/calvin-and...
spaetzleesser 6y ago
I am getting pretty tired of sweatpants but regular pants feel uncomfortable while working from home. Does anybody know some pants that are reasonably comfortable but still a little stylish?
- Nursie 6y ago
  >I am getting pretty tired of sweatpants but regular pants feel uncomfortable while working from home. No pants? You're working from home after all... Only half kidding, my morning work uniform now is my cotton dressing gown ('bath robe' in US English?) I tend to get dressed around lunchtime. Vive la difference :)
  - Tade0 6y ago
    No pants? You're working from home after all... I used to work for a guy who applied such a dress code in the office. On any sign of customers approaching he would bolt to his office and put some pants on.
- jbillmann 6y ago
  I recommend a nice pair of summer hiking pants. Specifically, look at Outdoor Research Ferrosi Pants.
- dkn775 6y ago
  Under armor has some windbreaker-material pants that wear close to sweatpants, but have pockets and are stylish. I find them very comfortable
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  https://publicrec.com/products/all-day-every-day-pant-inseam-32 https://publicrec.com/products/all-day-every-day-pant-inseam... (Public Rec All Day Every Day Pant) They aren’t cheap, but I find them worth the price and live in them.
- kazen44 6y ago
  how are normal pants uncomfortable when working from home exactly? How is your home enviroment different from work that makes this clothing uncomfortable?
motohagiography 6y ago
From other thread: As a former fashion writer, the "fashion industry," reduces to a spectacle for selling perfume and cosmetics. Fashion itself is an expression of beliefs, power, and alignment that people buy clothes to participate in. In this sense, fashion is to clothing what live music is to alcohol, or what journalism is to advertising. There is an underlying high-margin business that you use a spectacle to attract people into to sell them stuff. The talent for the spectacle exists in a local equilibrium that is largely oblivious to the economics that make it viable. Journalists are a great example of people who thought they were the money maker and remain in denial about the economics of their role of bringing readers to advertisers. Fashion designers (like Jacobs in the article) appear to have the same conceit, where their role as the spectacle that draws in punters who buy super high margin smelly water, face paint, and snake oil lotions has been displaced. Covid has just been the coup de gras, where the fashion business has been steadily being polarized and dis-intermediated for at least a decade. A business that promised and re-sold proximity to fame was really taken out much earlier by Instagram and its influencer economy, where now everyone is famous for Warhol's 15 minutes, and the returns on investment in fame schemes are now much more diffuse. The dynamic described in the article about luxury clothing in the end resembles the book and publishing business, where you are in effect consigning product to retailers, who make massive orders for their big box shops, then destroy you with returns. It's like how movies spent almost 100 years in in the popcorn and concessions business, and they've found totally new economics in the streaming game. Fixing fashion is the same class of problem as fixing journalism, publishing, music, movies, and arts in general, where the economics of getting people together to sell them complimentary high margin goods in the moment and place was decimated by social media, and now finished off by covid. These markets aren't dead, but they are now polarized, where the super high end is fine, and the absolute bottom will persist, but the lucrative middle is hollowed out. These fashion design brands made most of their money on middle market goods backed by over leveraged private equity investments and sunk costs in conglomerates, and that's why they're getting killed by this. Fashion is the business of symbols and signifiers and there is infinite human demand for these (just as there is for stories, conflict/news, spectacle, etc), so future businesses using totally different modalities will pick up the slack to meet it, but reading fashion talent hand wringing about their market is like listening to journalists talk about the economics of publishing, hockey players discussing team ownership, or perhaps even us hackers talking about venture capital. What we think is meaningful and decisive, it's not meaningful and decisive.
joosters 6y ago
“Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.” With the fashion industry 'pushing the unseen and unsold 2020 collections into 2021', Oscar Wilde's quote may no longer be true!
chiefalchemist 6y ago
Fashion is simply marketing gone wild. It's preying on the idea that the best way to be a better you is to wear ____. That you can cure your inferiority complex by consuming X, Y or Z. Which in turn belittles those around you, and so on. TL;TD - An expensive ____ (e.g., watch) doesn't make you a better person. And you know this. So you get a nice car. Doesn't help. So you get new shoes. And so on. Fashion is a cure for people who lack confidence and style. But that cure is more like an addiction.
- rainonmoon 6y ago
  It's a little strange to me how often the ills of consumerism are conflated with fashion alone. This comment (although not only this comment) drastically undersells that fashion is an art form as much as painting, writing or cinema: a means of personal expression and cultural communication which exists in conversation with its own history and traditions. Beyond that, the staving off of existential dread you mention is just as present in the amount of networking gear I've been obsessively adding to my homelab during iso -- where is the contempt for that?
  - on_and_off 6y ago
    thanks for this comment. this comment section is hard to read. For lots of topics, HN comment section is interesting to follow to see experts in the fields giving insightful info. This is not one of these. Totally agree on fashion as an art form. The pursuit of beauty also applies to what you wear.
  - chiefalchemist 6y ago
    Designing clothing is an art. The marketing of that is commonly known as fashion. They are not synonymous.
WalterBright 6y ago
I admit it, I miss the style of the 80's - Miami Vice, Duran Duran, etc.
- voldacar 6y ago
  People say fashon moves in 40 year cycles, so the 80s might be back soon
- wsc981 6y ago
  Shoulder pads in woman's cloth were a horrible invention imho.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    I like the neon colors, big hair, and just the flamboyancy of the style. Shoulder pads I could do without :-)
- racl101 6y ago
  Pastel suits with shoulder pads and no socks? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m26Fy2oTm1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m26Fy2oTm1c
exabrial 6y ago
http://archive.is/vDYqU http://archive.is/vDYqU
dstick 6y ago
My preference is to buy full black jeans and shirts, 10 at a time. They look good and don’t go out of style. No insecurity when going outdoors and tons of cognitive load freed up for other stuff every morning. Instead of having to choose an outfit every morning... It’s too exhausting to keep up with trends ;)
- site-packages1 6y ago
  This has the unfortunate side effect of everyone thinking there’s something “off” about you. This can have detrimental effects on your career, even if you’re a billionaire iconoclast, but a regular person probably will face greater detriment. Notably, the cognitive difference picking between having all the same clothes and having a variety of clothes that go together in any combination (various jeans, colors of tee shirts, etc) is nil, and has the added benefit that people won’t think you’re write because you’re always wearing all black (though I can’t promise they won’t think you’re weird for other reasons).
sukilot 6y ago
Has the Submarine resurfaced after 15 years? http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
spodek 6y ago
For anyone who cares about sustainability and how textiles and fashion relate, the documentary The True Cost will change everything for you. It's available free online: https://thoughtmaybe.com/the-true-cost https://thoughtmaybe.com/the-true-cost. The industry pollutes and oppresses beyond what you think.
Grakel 6y ago
The design of this article is absolute trash.
jshaqaw 6y ago
I’m on the pretty low to nonexistent level of fashion consciousness but fast forward 8 months to a world where maybe there is a vaccine. I can see a rebound cultural shift to going out/dressing up bringing back fashionable clothing for work and play stronger than pre-pandemic. There can easily be a cultural shift away from everyone sitting in their basement playing Animal Crossing in dirty sweatpants on Saturday night. I’m a homebody introvert but when the vaccine hits man I’m hitting the town hard!
- joncrane 6y ago
  And at that time, being fashionable will have additional cachet because by then many of the fast fashion retailers will be bankrupt or running reduced selection and inventory.
Melting_Harps 6y ago
Isn't this ultimately a good thing? I recall someone here made a post about how much Green House Emissions are created as a result of the Fashion Industry. Personally I haven't worn sweatpants since I was in mandated gym class in HS and it was too cold outside for those overpriced cheaply made shorts and have instead opted for gym clothes (as it was closed) which are nylon/synthetic wicking and breathable during the winter months and then cargo shorts collection I've had and added to since I was in University in the summer. Honestly, while I think Women's fashion is mainly a thing they do for themselves, as most guys care more about what is underneath the clothes, its something that should be disrupted if its true it accounts for so much environmental costs. And perhaps we could accelerate the tech needed to '3d print' clothes/outfits, or at least something like a community based automated textile model where you bring a 'print/template' of the outfit adjusted for your measurements, pay a sum to the operators and come back a few days later with the clothes you want and cutting out the middle men. This could spur on a ton of creative sub-cultures like they have in France, Italy, Japan or England that so many have talked about about in this thread, as they still have a significant demand for tailors to meet the Global demand. I tip really well when I take my clothes to the local dry cleaner own and operated by a Family of Koreans because not only do they have a dry-cleaning business, they're situated inside the family owned landromat with about 40 machines, but also have a garment altering business, a shoe repair business inside them and are perhaps trail-blazing how clothing could be done in the Future with a modern automated textile model as an adjunct now that retail real estate is undergoing an Apocalypse situation and can be had for cheap. I wear timeless fashion things for formal wear and its usually made in Italy or S. Korea these days, I wish I could put a few local seamstresses/tailors/shoe artisans back to work and stop relying on needless shipping costs and the harm that goes with it for my clothing. Even if it costs more I'd prefer to stop relying on this model for the few $1000s I spend on clothes a year. > Yes, but Jeans are part of the collapse now and considered formal for creatives with Levi's down 62% and doing layoffs. I thought "formality" was bizarre as well, but apparently their target demo don't consider the older skinny-jeans, and the new high-waisted mom-jeans to be as comfortable as Lulus... who'd have thunk it? It's CEO did, I saw his interview in a podcast about how he saw the trend happening from Yogis and Health Centric movements in the early days and how he swept in after the 2008 financial crises when many of the former Bar Hopper scenesters switched to the Gym for their socilizing place of choice due to less expendable income. He still thinks the one piece lycra smart-clothes movement that measures all kinds of vitals and provides a ton of real-time health information is in the works for the next transition, but that Lulu is the first phase to get to that. If I recall correctly, he came from the outdoor/skate-snowboard Industries and caught that wave before starting Lulu and had a lot of success there. Overall it was interesting and insightful on something I give almost no real focus toward, clothing trends are something I stopped caring about in HS and I've seen so many things 'come back in style' that I see how unoriginal 'fashion' really is.
coldtea 6y ago
So, in the 80s, there was this anti-cassete copying campaign, and they were stickers etc, "Record copying is killing the music industry". And Jello Biafra (iirc), said: "Record copying is killing the music industry - and it's about time!". I'd say the same for the fashion industry - selling crap, made in sweatshops, marked up 10x to 100x, for mindless, environmentally unfriendly consumption based on BS advice of complicit websites, tv shows, magazines, etc., on what people should wear next...
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  Exactly, the fashion industry needs a hard stop and to be replaced with a environmentally responsible and ethical approach. I've almost completely pivoted to wearing classic polo shirts (so much better than t-shirts) and workwear(-derived) pants and shorts. Work pants run the gamut from heavy-duty carpenter/bricklayer-type designs to clean straight-forward chinos and classic men's pants for service staff, waiters and the like. Designs that are clean and decidedly non-flashy, and last for a long time. I also prefer work shirts to dress shirts, I like the thicker softer fabrics, and just like how the collar on a polo shirt is genius in the sun, rolling up the sleeves on a shirt makes it more versatile. If a specific brand's clothing isn't both comfortable and durable, they simply do not last long in the workwear segment, because word of mouth spreads like wildfire among colleagues. As a bonus, most workwear is made to be washed at 60 or even 70 degrees C, which means I'll probably never wash it to pieces at 40 degress, unlike some of the more fashionable clothes I used to own.
- tomkaos 6y ago
  One cassette version of the Dead Kennedys e.p. In God We Trust Inc. had a blank side, printed with the message "Home taping is killing record industry profits! We left this side blank so you can help."
badrabbit 6y ago
Even sweatpants grow old. Feels weird but sometimes I need to put on work clothes even if no one will see me in that outfit. It helps a little to set boundaries.
- 01100011 6y ago
  Yeah I stopped wearing my sweat shorts and went back to chinos because it makes me feel more alert and focused. I've never been one to pay much attention to my appearance, but in quarantine I need all the help I can get to stay on task. I'm even thinking of getting some indoor, lace-up shoes and wearing them during the week.
apozem 6y ago
The way this article frames it, all these fashion companies are going direct-to-consumer (DTC) as their business model salvation, but that is only good for Facebook. > Here is the problem for DTC companies: Facebook really is better at finding them customers than anyone else. That means that the best return-on-investment for acquiring customers is on Facebook, where DTC companies are competing against all of the other DTC companies and mobile game developers and incumbent CPG companies and everyone else for user attention. That means the real winner is Facebook, while DTC companies are slowly choked by ever-increasing customer acquisition costs. Facebook is the company that makes the space work, and so it is only natural that Facebook is harvesting most of the profitability from the DTC value chain. https://stratechery.com/2020/brandless-closes-the-dtc-facebook-challenge-dtc-versus-softbank/ https://stratechery.com/2020/brandless-closes-the-dtc-facebo...
- cagenut 6y ago
  fwiw this is basically what happened to "media" or "the news". facebook middle manned the distribution chain and then peeled off most of the value/ad-revenue. moving on to consumer-goods/e-commerce is just "whats next" after news.
Camillo 6y ago
This is basically a twelve-thousand-word advertorial for this Sternberg guy's brand, AFAICT.
torgian 6y ago
I’m gonna start wearing my cycling jerseys and bibs everywhere I go in tennis shoes now.
diebeforei485 6y ago
Fast fashion is terrible for the environment[1]. It's good that things are moving towards comfort and longevity. https://youtu.be/xGF3ObOBbac https://youtu.be/xGF3ObOBbac
torgian 6y ago
Most of my money net goes towards cycling gear. I buy new clothes maybe once a year or once every two years. I have a custom made suit that I bought from a bespoke tailor in Chengdu for about 1200 usd including custom shoes. I still want to find a nice trench coat for winter, and I saw one at Dior that I really liked. Didn’t want to pay the 5000 usd price tag though.
- eb0la 6y ago
  I remember asian tailors advertised in the Financial Times. They just rented a room near the City to make measuremens an bought an ad in FT to book appointments. That way you could get a nice bespoke suit for less than it was sold in London. I wonder if that market still exists.
  - torgian 6y ago
    I think it depends on who you approach. The place I went to in Chengdu was actually owned by a foreigner. You would get measured. Then he sourced fabric from Hong Kong, had the pieces made there, then made second and third fittings in person. Shoes were made locally, with leather sourced from Hong Kong as well. I'm not sure if it would be possible to order a completely bespoke tailored suit online. If you gave them your measurements, you probably could get a suit, that was semi-tailored (similar to off-the-shelf suits). You'd still need to get final adjustments made. But it still wouldn't be completely fitted 100% to you and your body.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Razengan 6y ago
This problem seems to be US specific. If you look up YouTube street tours of some European countries or Japan or even Russia, you'll notice that the average person is still generally fashionable, certainly more so than in the US.
- swarnie_ 6y ago
  Maybe some enterprising young chap could bring mainstream fashion to the Xl - 6XL size ranges? That way the US could get involved.
  - simonhamp 6y ago
    But you can’t get a 10x margin when you need to use that much material... /s
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    People don’t realize that culturally that is the ‘fashion’ of the U.S. Read Anathem by Neal Stephenson, it has a funny take on this :)
DonHopkins 6y ago
Speaking of fashion design, the snake-text formatting and layout and industrial snarkiness of this NYT article is totally reminiscent of suck.com (i.e. 22 December 1995): https://web.archive.org/web/20060127002252/http://www.suck.com/daily/1995/12/22/ https://web.archive.org/web/20060127002252/http://www.suck.c... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suck.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suck.com Ten years later, the story of Suck.com (2005): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10143395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10143395 http://www.keepgoing.org/issue20_giant/the_big_fish.html http://www.keepgoing.org/issue20_giant/the_big_fish.html https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10143805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10143805 > nailer: Inventor of snake text, which is now so ubiquitous it doesn't have a name. > derefr: So ubiquitous that Google can't define it for me, either, it seems. What is it? > Cederfjard: I'd never heard of it either. This is one of the results my search yielded: https://web.archive.org/web/20130420012902/https://longform.org/stories/web-dreams-the-story-of-suck https://web.archive.org/web/20130420012902/https://longform.... >HotWired's Flux, a weekly gossip column from the pseudonymous Ned Brainard, was close. The column was the first example of what the Web magazine Salon (www.salon1999.com) dismissed as "snake text," meaning the story ran in one long, narrow column.
INTPenis 6y ago
I see fashion every single day, people aren't under lock and key like what happened in China where they welded apartment doors shut from the outside, on at least one occasion. Such a non-article that really shows how the media inflamed the whole influenza story. It's their job to write. Writing stuff literally puts food on their table. Even when it's something as stupid as fashion industry collapsing. An influenza season with a higher death rate than usual is a gold mine to them. A literal golden age of media.
- ehnto 6y ago
  So because your particular experience is different, everyone else's is invalid? Hundreds if not thousands of cities went into complete lockdown, and some remain in it. My city is vibrant and busy, but a nearby state is locked down, with curfews and all stores shut except pharmacies and supermarkets. That's the reality of it, this article is exploring the effects of that. It's not influenza, you think you're being clever, but you're just displaying your willful ignorance. A proud idiot is still an idiot.
  - INTPenis 6y ago
    Well this story is talking about fashion. Not local trends. Fashion today will not be negatively affected by some cities going into lockdown. So this is a non-story, typical for bored journalists to make up. Because they have to. They have no other choice.
waihtis 6y ago
I think there's a lost opportunity here to bring monk-type robes back into fashion.
kwhitefoot 6y ago
For an article on an international industry this was quite astonishingly parochial. What is happening outside the US?
vaibhawc 6y ago
He studied economics.
znpy 6y ago
tl;dr: the fashion bubble popped.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
The "fast" fashion industry maybe, which has been an over-inflated, Brave New World-like market for decades. When it comes down to it, people don't need more than a few items of clothes. And right now we're in a situation where it comes down to it. Comfort and practicality are important now, not whether your outfit is fresh or fashionable.
Jemm 6y ago
Good. The fashion industry is toxic and wasteful. I hope it does not survive, but of course I am sorry for the people who's livelihood is impacted.
tibbydudeza 6y ago
Lounge pants for the win.
wonderwonder 6y ago
Looking at the brand in question in the article, their sweatsuits look very similar to any $20 sweatsuit but cost $88 for the top and $88 for the bottom. I would argue that the reason high end fashion is dying is because no one can afford it and more importantly I think people realize there is no need. Amazon provides exposure to a wide range of acceptable clothing for pennies on the dollar compared to high end brands. If the quality is not great and it does not last as long, I'll just buy another. If i have to buy 5 of them, I am still probably better off and that really does not happen, the quality is generally fine.

236 points by samsolomon 6y ago

bwasti 6y ago

perhaps title "Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed" for context?

dang 6y ago
Changed now. Thanks!

pwinnski 6y ago

I read the article, then was surprised to see that the comments here are focused to much on the clothing part of the story, rather than the investment and financing parts of the story. They way VC is described in the story seems familiar to me from time spent working for Bay-area startups, and I think the critiques in the story apply in tech as well.

Shivetya 6y ago
Well DTC is moving through a lot of non perishable industries as many do understand how much power retailers have over the manufacturer of products they sell. Just as the article mention RTVs and discounting forced upon the manufacturer grocery has been doing this for ages, even down to the point of forcing sales on a schedule, charging for end cap space or specific aisles. One issue the fashion industry also faced is that for the last few years it really felt as if America was pulling back from celebrity worship. That is good thing and part of that means not having to keep up with the Kardashians, whether their TV show or the brands they sport. With so many in the music industry called out in #METOO; excepting one glaring genre; there was pull back there as well. DTC has made it sort of in perishables through Instacart and such push many manufacturers DTC through proxies like Amazon and more. As for sweats, as an ex who used to model when young always told me, sweats don't judge.
- draw_down 6y ago
  > With so many in the music industry called out in #METOO; excepting one glaring genre It’s interesting to watch people get their little digs in on here, I’ll say that.
swang 6y ago
I'm guessing because the unique outlier is about the fashion. Lots of other articles on HN about investment/financing

the8472 6y ago

> Now a global pandemic had hit. He couldn’t foresee that. No one did. Some people did. Taiwan prepared after SARS. Of course nobody forsaw all possible consequences but it would be better to say that not everyone has the capacity to account for all possible tail risks.

papito 6y ago
"When the next pandemic occurs (and make no mistake, it will) and the federal government is unable to respond in a coordinated and effective fashion to protect the lives of US citizens and others, this decision by John Bolton and Donald Trump will be why." -Stephen Schwartz, on Twitter, May 2018 People knew. Also, Americans don't really have the habit of factoring in major events outside of their control into their long term strategy. It will be ok. The danger is "over there". The oceans will protect us.
- sukilot 6y ago
  Alternatively, this was Trump's 9/11 -- the threat the President+Cabinet knew was coming and intentionally unprotected the nation from, in order to manufacture an excuse to retaliate against a tangentially connected enemy.
  - dane-pgp 6y ago
    As conspiracy theories go, that one perhaps hits hardest because of the "banality of evil" aspect to it.
    - Der_Einzige 6y ago
      I don't see what is arendtian about this...
  - 3131s 6y ago
    To those downvoting... Why is Bandar bin Sultan still free? Why was information suppressed by congress concerning Bandar sending $130,000 to the two 9/11 hijackers? Why has the Bush family never been questioned about their close friendship with Bandar?

dgut 6y ago

font-size: 30px; max-width: 600px; Is it just me who has difficulties reading this article on desktop?

nhooyr 6y ago
Yea, the design is very poor on desktop.
giancarlostoro 6y ago
They probably wanted it to look good on their insane high resolution screen judging by the font... They shoulda sized it in em and not pixels specifically. OTOH reader mode on firefox fixes any of that nonsense.
- jahewson 6y ago
  The em unit is relative to the inherited font size. If you don’t specify an absolute font size or inherit one then you inherit the user agent default for the <body> which is 16px.
  - giancarlostoro 6y ago
    It gets worse, I had to follow up[0] on what you've said, but if the parent element is also using EM the size keeps increasing. Namely according to the MDN docs I read: > To recap, the em unit means "my parent element's font-size" in the case of typography. The <li> elements inside the <ul> with a class of ems take their sizing from their parent. So each successive level of nesting gets progressively larger, as each has its font size set to 1.3em — 1.3 times its parent's font size. So REM is what you probably want if you intend to do some nesting and use the parents root font-size, set it once, apply it everywhere. TIL what em really does, versus what rem does. [0]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/CSS/Building_blocks/Values_and_units https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/CSS/Building_...
klyrs 6y ago
It looked like crap on my phone, too. Reader mode ftw

kazen44 6y ago

The collapse of the fashion industry does not mean the clothing industry will collapse. People still need clothing obviously (cheap and of good quality preferably). Also, what do we consider the fashion industry exactly? Most long term clothing trends seem to be dictated by a couple of factors. Consisting of: - practicality. Jeans are good example of this. It's cheap and practical clothing that lasts a long time. - cultural "requirement": clothing that is required to fit into social circles. The shirt would be a good example of this, aswell as the tie. - Enviromental requirements: This one should be obvious ofcourse, No one wears a wool jacket in abu dabi. Fast fashion and the fashion industry as a whole seems incredibly wasteful to me. Buying new clothing because of yearly trends is way to damaging to the enviroment for what it's worth.

ghaff 6y ago
That's true. But, even allowing for specialty clothing that they don't wear all that much and clothing that doesn't fit quite right, etc. but they haven't gotten rid of, most people have way more clothing than they really need. Even for generous values of need.
MagnumPIG 6y ago
> cultural "requirement": clothing that is required to fit into social circles. The shirt would be a good example of this, aswell as the tie. So... fashion?
- kazen44 6y ago
  yes, it is fashion. But it has a far slower pace of change then the fashion industry. Formal attire for males got out of style a couple of decades ago, but besides the suit (and tie) mostly dying, most people still wear shirts to work.
taurath 6y ago
(All comments on culture US centric) - This thinking is why the men’s section is 1/4 as large as the women’s in most stores. Culturally for men clothing is supposed to be above all practical. There are 5 genres of men’s clothes - business (pressed shirts, suits), casual, workout, skater, and comfort (hoodie). Contrast this with the women’s section. Women have an expectation to express themselves and their personality. There are all sorts of “impractical” cuts, flairs, colors, layers to choose from. There’s a shoe for every occasion. You can get dramatically different fabrics, feels, and touches. Not even going into accessories. There is certainly a sea change happening in fashion retail, but it’s more that like everything else it’s accelerating things that are already going on. People were trending less formal almost everywhere in the workplace, except NYC, SF and LA (or in high touch industries like real estate or law). Your H&Ms are best positioned to survive, where everyone already knows that Macy’s is on its last legs.

mthoms 6y ago

I'm saddened by the job losses, but the fashion industry (esp. the high end) seems nothing but a toxic drain on society and the environment. New "trends" dictated by celebrities and designers every year do nothing but sow personal insecurities and environmental destruction. Good riddance.

dominotw 6y ago
> Good riddance. Its just a manifestation of human need to be in a hierachy. Makes no sense to me to attack a particular symptom. I can think of a lots examples more destructive than fashion expensive cars single family homes with 5 bedrooms and 4 toilets yatches driving/flying vacations suburbs/ need for "space" overeating meat I think its a common kneejerk reaction against fashion in nerd circles because we never found it useful and something that played to our negatives. A complait that has very little to do with the environment, really.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  That is an unnecessary ad hominem. There is nothing kneejerking about being against 'fast fashion'. The fashion industry is the second-largest consumer of the world's water supply. [0] The fashion industry produces 10% of all humanity’s carbon emissions. [0] For comparison it produces more carbon than international flights and maritime shipping combined. [0] The wastefulness of it all is even more dismaying. 85% of the world's textile production ends in a landfill every year.[0] I agree that all the things in your list are as non-essential as the fashion industry but none of them (except maybe for the meat industry) have the business volume and carbon impact of the fashion industry as it currently operates. None of this is sustainable. [0] https://www.businessinsider.nl/fast-fashion-environmental-impact-pollution-emissions-waste-water-2019-10 https://www.businessinsider.nl/fast-fashion-environmental-im...
sunstone 6y ago
A male has entered the chat.
- 6y ago

MattGaiser 6y ago

Good riddance. The majority of my clothing spending was for rarely worn social compliance items like a suit, ties, and nice shoes.

ghaff 6y ago
My spend is probably: #1: Specialty clothing for outdoor activities, etc. #2: Stuff for day-to-day travel and (when I used to regularly go into an office--which hasn't been for years) day-to-day office. This clothing isn't particularly expensive but gets stained/worn over time. I have dress clothing but I wear it so seldom that I'm pretty sure I'll never buy another tie or likely another suit.

dredmorbius 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-culottes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-culottes

082349872349872 6y ago
Now that golfers no longer wear knickerbockers, I guess we're all pretty much sans-culottes. (How about 3/4 pants among the patagucci crowd?)
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  My thought was more of the dramatic shifts in fashion which can follow a sudden political and economic shock, as with the French Revolution. Fashion evolves toward ever greater complexity as a Veblen status-signalling good, then recapitulates. Often it is lower-class wear which emerges as the new standard, then progresses through the cycle again, often being elevated to the status of elite wear: dinner jackets, morning coats, longe suit, three-piece suit, dungarees, designer jeans, button-downs and khakis, etc. Several of those transitions followed major shocks: WWI, Great Depression, WWII, the Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam movements especially. The 2001, 2007, and 2020 economic panics similarly, though the last most notably IMO. (Arguably Fast Fashion was a business response to the 2007-9 crisis.) The fast-fashion trend seemed heading for a fall. Covid-19 delivered the kick. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_suits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_suits
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    See Homage to Catalonia for fashion change to lower-class wear and back, changing with the fortunes of the republic. Rule of thumb: the waitstaff in restaurants wear what the patrons had been dining in, before the last fashion shift. In the Coming Age of Formal Sweatpants, I'm guessing the front of the house will adopt button-downs and khakis. (Browsing old pictures makes it clear the Iron Curtain was pervious to even minor changes in fashion. There may have been ideological opposition among the elites on both sides, but not only did We look, from the oh-so-distant viewpoint of the twenty-first century, silly in our wide lapels or legwarmers, They did too.)

neonate 6y ago

https://archive.is/vDYqU https://archive.is/vDYqU

hmmazoids 6y ago

Honestly I like some aspects of the fashion industry -- shoes, hats, even shirts or collar shirts all have some personality you can showcase who you are and give yourself an identity (I think that's what makes fashion kinda interesting). However, pants? It's not really that different. I could care less lol

loughnane 6y ago
Remind me of this[0] Calvin and Hobbes strip [0] https://thecomicninja.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/calvin-and-hobbes-individuality.gif?w=640 https://thecomicninja.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/calvin-and...

spaetzleesser 6y ago

I am getting pretty tired of sweatpants but regular pants feel uncomfortable while working from home. Does anybody know some pants that are reasonably comfortable but still a little stylish?

Nursie 6y ago
>I am getting pretty tired of sweatpants but regular pants feel uncomfortable while working from home. No pants? You're working from home after all... Only half kidding, my morning work uniform now is my cotton dressing gown ('bath robe' in US English?) I tend to get dressed around lunchtime. Vive la difference :)
- Tade0 6y ago
  No pants? You're working from home after all... I used to work for a guy who applied such a dress code in the office. On any sign of customers approaching he would bolt to his office and put some pants on.
jbillmann 6y ago
I recommend a nice pair of summer hiking pants. Specifically, look at Outdoor Research Ferrosi Pants.
dkn775 6y ago
Under armor has some windbreaker-material pants that wear close to sweatpants, but have pockets and are stylish. I find them very comfortable
toomuchtodo 6y ago
https://publicrec.com/products/all-day-every-day-pant-inseam-32 https://publicrec.com/products/all-day-every-day-pant-inseam... (Public Rec All Day Every Day Pant) They aren’t cheap, but I find them worth the price and live in them.
kazen44 6y ago
how are normal pants uncomfortable when working from home exactly? How is your home enviroment different from work that makes this clothing uncomfortable?

motohagiography 6y ago

From other thread: As a former fashion writer, the "fashion industry," reduces to a spectacle for selling perfume and cosmetics. Fashion itself is an expression of beliefs, power, and alignment that people buy clothes to participate in. In this sense, fashion is to clothing what live music is to alcohol, or what journalism is to advertising. There is an underlying high-margin business that you use a spectacle to attract people into to sell them stuff. The talent for the spectacle exists in a local equilibrium that is largely oblivious to the economics that make it viable. Journalists are a great example of people who thought they were the money maker and remain in denial about the economics of their role of bringing readers to advertisers. Fashion designers (like Jacobs in the article) appear to have the same conceit, where their role as the spectacle that draws in punters who buy super high margin smelly water, face paint, and snake oil lotions has been displaced. Covid has just been the coup de gras, where the fashion business has been steadily being polarized and dis-intermediated for at least a decade. A business that promised and re-sold proximity to fame was really taken out much earlier by Instagram and its influencer economy, where now everyone is famous for Warhol's 15 minutes, and the returns on investment in fame schemes are now much more diffuse. The dynamic described in the article about luxury clothing in the end resembles the book and publishing business, where you are in effect consigning product to retailers, who make massive orders for their big box shops, then destroy you with returns. It's like how movies spent almost 100 years in in the popcorn and concessions business, and they've found totally new economics in the streaming game. Fixing fashion is the same class of problem as fixing journalism, publishing, music, movies, and arts in general, where the economics of getting people together to sell them complimentary high margin goods in the moment and place was decimated by social media, and now finished off by covid. These markets aren't dead, but they are now polarized, where the super high end is fine, and the absolute bottom will persist, but the lucrative middle is hollowed out. These fashion design brands made most of their money on middle market goods backed by over leveraged private equity investments and sunk costs in conglomerates, and that's why they're getting killed by this. Fashion is the business of symbols and signifiers and there is infinite human demand for these (just as there is for stories, conflict/news, spectacle, etc), so future businesses using totally different modalities will pick up the slack to meet it, but reading fashion talent hand wringing about their market is like listening to journalists talk about the economics of publishing, hockey players discussing team ownership, or perhaps even us hackers talking about venture capital. What we think is meaningful and decisive, it's not meaningful and decisive.

joosters 6y ago

“Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.” With the fashion industry 'pushing the unseen and unsold 2020 collections into 2021', Oscar Wilde's quote may no longer be true!

chiefalchemist 6y ago

Fashion is simply marketing gone wild. It's preying on the idea that the best way to be a better you is to wear ____. That you can cure your inferiority complex by consuming X, Y or Z. Which in turn belittles those around you, and so on. TL;TD - An expensive ____ (e.g., watch) doesn't make you a better person. And you know this. So you get a nice car. Doesn't help. So you get new shoes. And so on. Fashion is a cure for people who lack confidence and style. But that cure is more like an addiction.

rainonmoon 6y ago
It's a little strange to me how often the ills of consumerism are conflated with fashion alone. This comment (although not only this comment) drastically undersells that fashion is an art form as much as painting, writing or cinema: a means of personal expression and cultural communication which exists in conversation with its own history and traditions. Beyond that, the staving off of existential dread you mention is just as present in the amount of networking gear I've been obsessively adding to my homelab during iso -- where is the contempt for that?
- on_and_off 6y ago
  thanks for this comment. this comment section is hard to read. For lots of topics, HN comment section is interesting to follow to see experts in the fields giving insightful info. This is not one of these. Totally agree on fashion as an art form. The pursuit of beauty also applies to what you wear.
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  Designing clothing is an art. The marketing of that is commonly known as fashion. They are not synonymous.

WalterBright 6y ago

I admit it, I miss the style of the 80's - Miami Vice, Duran Duran, etc.

voldacar 6y ago
People say fashon moves in 40 year cycles, so the 80s might be back soon
wsc981 6y ago
Shoulder pads in woman's cloth were a horrible invention imho.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  I like the neon colors, big hair, and just the flamboyancy of the style. Shoulder pads I could do without :-)
racl101 6y ago
Pastel suits with shoulder pads and no socks? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m26Fy2oTm1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m26Fy2oTm1c

exabrial 6y ago

http://archive.is/vDYqU http://archive.is/vDYqU

dstick 6y ago

My preference is to buy full black jeans and shirts, 10 at a time. They look good and don’t go out of style. No insecurity when going outdoors and tons of cognitive load freed up for other stuff every morning. Instead of having to choose an outfit every morning... It’s too exhausting to keep up with trends ;)

site-packages1 6y ago
This has the unfortunate side effect of everyone thinking there’s something “off” about you. This can have detrimental effects on your career, even if you’re a billionaire iconoclast, but a regular person probably will face greater detriment. Notably, the cognitive difference picking between having all the same clothes and having a variety of clothes that go together in any combination (various jeans, colors of tee shirts, etc) is nil, and has the added benefit that people won’t think you’re write because you’re always wearing all black (though I can’t promise they won’t think you’re weird for other reasons).

sukilot 6y ago

Has the Submarine resurfaced after 15 years? http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

spodek 6y ago

For anyone who cares about sustainability and how textiles and fashion relate, the documentary The True Cost will change everything for you. It's available free online: https://thoughtmaybe.com/the-true-cost https://thoughtmaybe.com/the-true-cost. The industry pollutes and oppresses beyond what you think.

Grakel 6y ago

The design of this article is absolute trash.

jshaqaw 6y ago

I’m on the pretty low to nonexistent level of fashion consciousness but fast forward 8 months to a world where maybe there is a vaccine. I can see a rebound cultural shift to going out/dressing up bringing back fashionable clothing for work and play stronger than pre-pandemic. There can easily be a cultural shift away from everyone sitting in their basement playing Animal Crossing in dirty sweatpants on Saturday night. I’m a homebody introvert but when the vaccine hits man I’m hitting the town hard!

joncrane 6y ago
And at that time, being fashionable will have additional cachet because by then many of the fast fashion retailers will be bankrupt or running reduced selection and inventory.

Melting_Harps 6y ago

Isn't this ultimately a good thing? I recall someone here made a post about how much Green House Emissions are created as a result of the Fashion Industry. Personally I haven't worn sweatpants since I was in mandated gym class in HS and it was too cold outside for those overpriced cheaply made shorts and have instead opted for gym clothes (as it was closed) which are nylon/synthetic wicking and breathable during the winter months and then cargo shorts collection I've had and added to since I was in University in the summer. Honestly, while I think Women's fashion is mainly a thing they do for themselves, as most guys care more about what is underneath the clothes, its something that should be disrupted if its true it accounts for so much environmental costs. And perhaps we could accelerate the tech needed to '3d print' clothes/outfits, or at least something like a community based automated textile model where you bring a 'print/template' of the outfit adjusted for your measurements, pay a sum to the operators and come back a few days later with the clothes you want and cutting out the middle men. This could spur on a ton of creative sub-cultures like they have in France, Italy, Japan or England that so many have talked about about in this thread, as they still have a significant demand for tailors to meet the Global demand. I tip really well when I take my clothes to the local dry cleaner own and operated by a Family of Koreans because not only do they have a dry-cleaning business, they're situated inside the family owned landromat with about 40 machines, but also have a garment altering business, a shoe repair business inside them and are perhaps trail-blazing how clothing could be done in the Future with a modern automated textile model as an adjunct now that retail real estate is undergoing an Apocalypse situation and can be had for cheap. I wear timeless fashion things for formal wear and its usually made in Italy or S. Korea these days, I wish I could put a few local seamstresses/tailors/shoe artisans back to work and stop relying on needless shipping costs and the harm that goes with it for my clothing. Even if it costs more I'd prefer to stop relying on this model for the few $1000s I spend on clothes a year. > Yes, but Jeans are part of the collapse now and considered formal for creatives with Levi's down 62% and doing layoffs. I thought "formality" was bizarre as well, but apparently their target demo don't consider the older skinny-jeans, and the new high-waisted mom-jeans to be as comfortable as Lulus... who'd have thunk it? It's CEO did, I saw his interview in a podcast about how he saw the trend happening from Yogis and Health Centric movements in the early days and how he swept in after the 2008 financial crises when many of the former Bar Hopper scenesters switched to the Gym for their socilizing place of choice due to less expendable income. He still thinks the one piece lycra smart-clothes movement that measures all kinds of vitals and provides a ton of real-time health information is in the works for the next transition, but that Lulu is the first phase to get to that. If I recall correctly, he came from the outdoor/skate-snowboard Industries and caught that wave before starting Lulu and had a lot of success there. Overall it was interesting and insightful on something I give almost no real focus toward, clothing trends are something I stopped caring about in HS and I've seen so many things 'come back in style' that I see how unoriginal 'fashion' really is.

coldtea 6y ago

So, in the 80s, there was this anti-cassete copying campaign, and they were stickers etc, "Record copying is killing the music industry". And Jello Biafra (iirc), said: "Record copying is killing the music industry - and it's about time!". I'd say the same for the fashion industry - selling crap, made in sweatshops, marked up 10x to 100x, for mindless, environmentally unfriendly consumption based on BS advice of complicit websites, tv shows, magazines, etc., on what people should wear next...

KozmoNau7 6y ago
Exactly, the fashion industry needs a hard stop and to be replaced with a environmentally responsible and ethical approach. I've almost completely pivoted to wearing classic polo shirts (so much better than t-shirts) and workwear(-derived) pants and shorts. Work pants run the gamut from heavy-duty carpenter/bricklayer-type designs to clean straight-forward chinos and classic men's pants for service staff, waiters and the like. Designs that are clean and decidedly non-flashy, and last for a long time. I also prefer work shirts to dress shirts, I like the thicker softer fabrics, and just like how the collar on a polo shirt is genius in the sun, rolling up the sleeves on a shirt makes it more versatile. If a specific brand's clothing isn't both comfortable and durable, they simply do not last long in the workwear segment, because word of mouth spreads like wildfire among colleagues. As a bonus, most workwear is made to be washed at 60 or even 70 degrees C, which means I'll probably never wash it to pieces at 40 degress, unlike some of the more fashionable clothes I used to own.
tomkaos 6y ago
One cassette version of the Dead Kennedys e.p. In God We Trust Inc. had a blank side, printed with the message "Home taping is killing record industry profits! We left this side blank so you can help."

badrabbit 6y ago

Even sweatpants grow old. Feels weird but sometimes I need to put on work clothes even if no one will see me in that outfit. It helps a little to set boundaries.

01100011 6y ago
Yeah I stopped wearing my sweat shorts and went back to chinos because it makes me feel more alert and focused. I've never been one to pay much attention to my appearance, but in quarantine I need all the help I can get to stay on task. I'm even thinking of getting some indoor, lace-up shoes and wearing them during the week.

apozem 6y ago

The way this article frames it, all these fashion companies are going direct-to-consumer (DTC) as their business model salvation, but that is only good for Facebook. > Here is the problem for DTC companies: Facebook really is better at finding them customers than anyone else. That means that the best return-on-investment for acquiring customers is on Facebook, where DTC companies are competing against all of the other DTC companies and mobile game developers and incumbent CPG companies and everyone else for user attention. That means the real winner is Facebook, while DTC companies are slowly choked by ever-increasing customer acquisition costs. Facebook is the company that makes the space work, and so it is only natural that Facebook is harvesting most of the profitability from the DTC value chain. https://stratechery.com/2020/brandless-closes-the-dtc-facebook-challenge-dtc-versus-softbank/ https://stratechery.com/2020/brandless-closes-the-dtc-facebo...

cagenut 6y ago
fwiw this is basically what happened to "media" or "the news". facebook middle manned the distribution chain and then peeled off most of the value/ad-revenue. moving on to consumer-goods/e-commerce is just "whats next" after news.

Camillo 6y ago

This is basically a twelve-thousand-word advertorial for this Sternberg guy's brand, AFAICT.

torgian 6y ago

I’m gonna start wearing my cycling jerseys and bibs everywhere I go in tennis shoes now.

diebeforei485 6y ago

Fast fashion is terrible for the environment[1]. It's good that things are moving towards comfort and longevity. https://youtu.be/xGF3ObOBbac https://youtu.be/xGF3ObOBbac

torgian 6y ago

Most of my money net goes towards cycling gear. I buy new clothes maybe once a year or once every two years. I have a custom made suit that I bought from a bespoke tailor in Chengdu for about 1200 usd including custom shoes. I still want to find a nice trench coat for winter, and I saw one at Dior that I really liked. Didn’t want to pay the 5000 usd price tag though.

eb0la 6y ago
I remember asian tailors advertised in the Financial Times. They just rented a room near the City to make measuremens an bought an ad in FT to book appointments. That way you could get a nice bespoke suit for less than it was sold in London. I wonder if that market still exists.
- torgian 6y ago
  I think it depends on who you approach. The place I went to in Chengdu was actually owned by a foreigner. You would get measured. Then he sourced fabric from Hong Kong, had the pieces made there, then made second and third fittings in person. Shoes were made locally, with leather sourced from Hong Kong as well. I'm not sure if it would be possible to order a completely bespoke tailored suit online. If you gave them your measurements, you probably could get a suit, that was semi-tailored (similar to off-the-shelf suits). You'd still need to get final adjustments made. But it still wouldn't be completely fitted 100% to you and your body.

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Razengan 6y ago

This problem seems to be US specific. If you look up YouTube street tours of some European countries or Japan or even Russia, you'll notice that the average person is still generally fashionable, certainly more so than in the US.

swarnie_ 6y ago
Maybe some enterprising young chap could bring mainstream fashion to the Xl - 6XL size ranges? That way the US could get involved.
- simonhamp 6y ago
  But you can’t get a 10x margin when you need to use that much material... /s
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  People don’t realize that culturally that is the ‘fashion’ of the U.S. Read Anathem by Neal Stephenson, it has a funny take on this :)

DonHopkins 6y ago

Speaking of fashion design, the snake-text formatting and layout and industrial snarkiness of this NYT article is totally reminiscent of suck.com (i.e. 22 December 1995): https://web.archive.org/web/20060127002252/http://www.suck.com/daily/1995/12/22/ https://web.archive.org/web/20060127002252/http://www.suck.c... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suck.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suck.com Ten years later, the story of Suck.com (2005): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10143395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10143395 http://www.keepgoing.org/issue20_giant/the_big_fish.html http://www.keepgoing.org/issue20_giant/the_big_fish.html https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10143805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10143805 > nailer: Inventor of snake text, which is now so ubiquitous it doesn't have a name. > derefr: So ubiquitous that Google can't define it for me, either, it seems. What is it? > Cederfjard: I'd never heard of it either. This is one of the results my search yielded: https://web.archive.org/web/20130420012902/https://longform.org/stories/web-dreams-the-story-of-suck https://web.archive.org/web/20130420012902/https://longform.... >HotWired's Flux, a weekly gossip column from the pseudonymous Ned Brainard, was close. The column was the first example of what the Web magazine Salon (www.salon1999.com) dismissed as "snake text," meaning the story ran in one long, narrow column.

INTPenis 6y ago

I see fashion every single day, people aren't under lock and key like what happened in China where they welded apartment doors shut from the outside, on at least one occasion. Such a non-article that really shows how the media inflamed the whole influenza story. It's their job to write. Writing stuff literally puts food on their table. Even when it's something as stupid as fashion industry collapsing. An influenza season with a higher death rate than usual is a gold mine to them. A literal golden age of media.

ehnto 6y ago
So because your particular experience is different, everyone else's is invalid? Hundreds if not thousands of cities went into complete lockdown, and some remain in it. My city is vibrant and busy, but a nearby state is locked down, with curfews and all stores shut except pharmacies and supermarkets. That's the reality of it, this article is exploring the effects of that. It's not influenza, you think you're being clever, but you're just displaying your willful ignorance. A proud idiot is still an idiot.
- INTPenis 6y ago
  Well this story is talking about fashion. Not local trends. Fashion today will not be negatively affected by some cities going into lockdown. So this is a non-story, typical for bored journalists to make up. Because they have to. They have no other choice.

waihtis 6y ago

I think there's a lost opportunity here to bring monk-type robes back into fashion.

kwhitefoot 6y ago

For an article on an international industry this was quite astonishingly parochial. What is happening outside the US?

vaibhawc 6y ago

He studied economics.

znpy 6y ago

tl;dr: the fashion bubble popped.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

The "fast" fashion industry maybe, which has been an over-inflated, Brave New World-like market for decades. When it comes down to it, people don't need more than a few items of clothes. And right now we're in a situation where it comes down to it. Comfort and practicality are important now, not whether your outfit is fresh or fashionable.

Jemm 6y ago

Good. The fashion industry is toxic and wasteful. I hope it does not survive, but of course I am sorry for the people who's livelihood is impacted.

tibbydudeza 6y ago

Lounge pants for the win.

wonderwonder 6y ago

Looking at the brand in question in the article, their sweatsuits look very similar to any $20 sweatsuit but cost $88 for the top and $88 for the bottom. I would argue that the reason high end fashion is dying is because no one can afford it and more importantly I think people realize there is no need. Amazon provides exposure to a wide range of acceptable clothing for pennies on the dollar compared to high end brands. If the quality is not great and it does not last as long, I'll just buy another. If i have to buy 5 of them, I am still probably better off and that really does not happen, the quality is generally fine.