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The Khmer Rouge: Genocide in the Name of Utopia (2016)
- Jenz 6y ago> The Khmer Rouge believed that parents were tainted with capitalism, so they separated children from their parents, indoctrinated them in communism, and taught them torture methods with animals. Children were a “dictatorial instrument of the party” and were given leadership in torture and executions. This sounds like it’s taken straight out of Orwells 1984.
- notahacker 6y agoWait until you read about the forced confession extraction in S-21 / Tuol Sleng...
- Jenz 6y agoI came back here in a hurry, having just read that part... where did they get this from? Why on earth would they be interested in forcing ‘confessions’ out of people, just to execute them later? Maybe my initial comment should be that this is taken out from [a book] that both Orwell, and the Khmer Rouge has read; which book would this be?
- pessimizer 6y agoThat's how the Inquisition worked, it's not an uncommon pattern. It's a twisted sense of justice. Also, confessions include names which extend the inquisition. It's the same thing the Indonesians did when exterminating communists in 65-66, or South Korea did during the Bodo League massacre, or Chile under Pinochet, or Guatemala when slaughtering the Maya.
- refurb 6y agoIt's not an uncommon tactic. Identify the people you want eliminated, force a confession (whether true or not), then carry out "justice". You're not opposed to justice are you?
- botwriter 6y agoIf you're ever in Cambodia you should go it will change you.
- grandridge 6y agoThe modern left, antifa and blm are no different
- at_a_remove 6y agoIt's enlightening to contemplate the impact of such a thing, all the way out to the song "Holiday in Cambodia." Imagine seeing a tree with a plaque on it stating that this was the place where they used to smash infants' heads against the trunk. They were always just one murder away from achieving perfection, and in light of such a goal, what is a single life? I was recently remarking to someone on their Year Zero, their willful destruction of all that had gone before. Certainly we have seen it with ISIS and Mao encouraged it for that revolution, but this was much more thorough. Pagodas were turned into warehouses and statues were of course destroyed. It certainly seem to be a common thread in communist revolutions: all that has gone before must be destroyed. Now I am going to see if I cannot find Spalding Gray's Swimming to Cambodia.
- kikokikokiko 6y agoHistory is a series of bad remakes that should never have been made. The US seem to be going on a very good direction, toppling Washington and Jefferson's statues lately.
- ipnon 6y agoI take the Spike Lee approach, if people are going to violently vent their anger its better they destroy some object than end someones life. We can always make another statue.
- virtuous_signal 6y agoI'm not really sure anger or violence works that way. Some would say that tolerating violence leads to more, or more severe violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory
- foolinaround 6y agosoon, toppling that statue won't be enough. They will move on to the next atrocity...
- 6y ago
- pnw_hazor 6y ago"In Washington, then-Representative Christopher Dodd of Connecticut averred: ``The greatest gift our country can give to the Cambodian people is peace, not guns. And the best way to accomplish that goal is by ending military aid now.''" "In the news columns of The New York Times, the celebrated Sydney Schanberg wrote of Cambodians that ``it is difficult to imagine how their lives could be anything but better with the Americans gone.'' He dismissed predictions of mass executions in the wake of a Khmer Rouge victory: ``It would be tendentious to forecast such abnormal behavior as national policy under a Communist government once the war is over.'' On April 13, 1975, Schanberg's dispatch from Phnom Penh was headlined, ``Indochina without Americans: for most, a better life.''" http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/1998/04/30/american_leftists_were_pol_pots_cheerleaders/ http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/...
- longtimegoogler 6y agoThe irony is that many will say the same about the US invasion of Iraq and removal of Saddam Hussain. Often there are no easy answers. Did Dodd know the full extent of the Khmer Rouge's crimes?
- snicker7 6y agoMy grandfather was a victim (he was educated and a well-to-do farmer). They beheaded him in front of the village. My mother and her family were forced to watch and clap.
- 3131s 6y agoThat's tragic. My mother-in-law lost her parents and six siblings all on the same day... she was the oldest and the only one to have moved out of the family home already. She had also recently had a baby and lost the child, because she herself was starving from the forced labor and could not produce breast milk.
- gus_massa 6y agoThere is an interesting video about this in the "Rare Earth" channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUCiADFjQG0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUCiADFjQG0 (He has a more videos about Cambodia.)
- botwriter 6y agoBefore Covid I was living out in Phnom Penh. I adore Cambodia and its people who are some of the friendliest people I've ever met in the world! The Khmer Rouge were a mixture of Marxism and Khmer nationalism. Black lives matter is a mixture of Marxism and Black nationalism... It's very apt to have this article here. I'll always challenge Marxism because I've seem the results and what it does to people. My landlord was a child solider his mother a lovely elderly women who's only English was "hello" with a very toothless grin. But if children walked past she would go silent because when the Khmer rouge were in power if children heard you say anything which could be construed as wrong you'd be murdered. The Khmer don't talk of post traumatic stress they call it 'broken courage'. I've met so many people who's parents did amazing things. My ex girlfriends grandfather fled to Thailand as he was a teacher and considered educated. Her father worked the field during the Khmer rouge period afterwards who got an education where he could and put himself through medical school and became a doctor. He's one of the most incredible people I've ever met. My ex keeps a picture of him in her purse on the back in written my hero my father. You do walk around and see old people and the thought does wonder in your mind are you a victim of genocide or a war criminal. The Khmer have forgiven though and should be an inspiration to us all. Black lives matter terrifies me because I look back in history and I've seen what racial Marxism does!
- kls 6y agoThey will argue that true communism has not been given it's fair shake, the US intervention prevented it, and that this time they will get it right. They could not package traditional communism in a palatable manner so the Marxist went back to the drawing board and packaged it with social issues. Anytime the government get's involved in social issues it becomes a mess, personal liberties get infringed on and it turns out bad.
- mr_overalls 6y agoI attended a university-based martial arts class in the late 1990s. A somewhat-elderly Asian lady (probably mid-50's) began attending classes and progressing through the ranks. She was kind of. . . well, a goofball. Transgressive sort of humor. Made jokes about people's girlfriends. Laughed through demos. The only time I saw her utterly serious is when the instructor showed off some knife-defense techniques he learned at a seminar. She got a weird look on her face at the overly-styled techniques we were being show and very clearly said, "We did it like this in Cambodia." She grabbed the rubber knife from the sensei, seemingly teleported behind his back, clamped a hand over his mouth, and drew the knife across his throat. "So they no hear any noise," she explained. As a bunch of 20-something kids, we looked on in horror. She seemed to remember herself and looked embarrassed. Left early from class and never came back.
- yocheckitdawg 6y agor/thathappened
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- kikokikokiko 6y ago"Before Covid I was living out in Phnom Penh. I adore Cambodia and its people who are some of the friendliest people I've ever met in the world! The Khmer Rouge were a mixture of Marxism and Khmer nationalism. Black lives matter is a mixture of Marxism and Black nationalism... It's very apt to have this article here. I'll always challenge Marxism because I've seem the results and what it does to people. My landlord was a child solider his mother a lovely elderly women who's only English was "hello" with a very toothless grin. But if children walked past she would go silent because when the Khmer rouge were in power if children heard you say anything which could be construed as wrong you'd be murdered. The Khmer don't talk of post traumatic stress they call it 'broken courage'. I've met so many people who's parents did amazing things. My ex girlfriends grandfather fled to Thailand as he was a teacher and considered educated. Her father worked the field during the Khmer rouge period afterwards who got an education where he could and put himself through medical school and became a doctor. He's one of the most incredible people I've ever met. My ex keeps a picture of him in her purse on the back in written my hero my father. You do walk around and see old people and the thought does wonder in your mind are you a victim of genocide or a war criminal. The Khmer have forgiven though and should be an inspiration to us all. Black lives matter terrifies me because I look back in history and I've seen what racial Marxism does!" This is the best post on this thread, and of course it was removed by the moderators.
- ipnon 6y agoThank you for copying this.
- incompatible 6y agoIs Black Lives Matter actually a Marxist movement, or is this a slur from their opponents? Perhaps there are some Marxists who support the movement, but that doesn't itself make it Marxist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter - no mention of Marxism, Communism or Socialism.
- reducesuffering 6y ago‘ Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report. Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview, Breitbart News reported. “The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza. “We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,” Cullors added in the interview with Jared Ball of The Real News Network.’[0] [0] https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/ https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herse...
- mdxchhcxdm 6y agoMy parents survived this awful tragedy. They shared stories of how they dealt with the intense hunger, exhaustion, and living in a state of perpetual terror. More often, they'd speak of the family that were taken from them-- uncles, aunts, and grandparents that I'll never meet. My grandpa was a musician that composed much of the popular Khmer music of the 60s influenced by American rock. Nothing has been more devastating than not knowing the whereabouts of loved ones. One of the most brutal legacies of the Khmer Rouge is the separation and destruction of families and communities. Through a DNA testing site, we recently matched with an unknown relative, leading to a joyful reunion between my mom and an aunt who cared for her before the war. DNA analysis has helped identify the unknown remains of Pearl Harbor service members[1], bringing closure for families. I'm certain this technology could do the same for many Cambodian families. [1] https://www.dpaa.mil/News-Stories/Recent-News-Stories/Article/2033698/update-on-pearl-harbor-identifications/ https://www.dpaa.mil/News-Stories/Recent-News-Stories/Articl...
- hackerbabz 6y agoSinn Sisamouth?
- mdxchhcxdm 6y agoNo, but he did compose songs for Sinn Sisamouth, who often brought sweets for my mom whenever he visited their home in Phnom Penh.
- exolymph 6y agoThank you for sharing your story.
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- todaysAI 6y agoI'm sorry I read about S-21 years ago because it stays with me to this day due to one thing: the lack of mercy. It somehow compels me to go see it even though I have resisted the idea. I know I will one day.
- hrfc 6y agoIf you posted in this thread with anything critical of Communism your account is banned. Meaning it is DEAD and only you and those who on purpose have Show dead enabled can see it. Go anonymous and search for your own username
- madengr 6y agoYep, I keep getting shadow banned for criticizing BLM, then my account slowly restores.
- Chiba-City 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_protectorate_of_Cambodia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_protectorate_of_Cambodi... Messy anti-maritime empire decolonizations will continue inexorably. Celebrate them, warts and all. America's "settlers" have nothing to say worth hearing regarding the fates of peoples inhabiting their own lands. I worked for State Dept, so you can trust me.
- sfpoet 6y agoI still get chills hearing about Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge. This article struck me in a different way: the farmers vs urbanites. I never saw it this way before.
- x87678r 6y agoChinese Cultural Revolution was similar country vs city as well.
- topspin 6y agoRussia exhibited the opposite phenomena. In part it was urbanites vs farmers. The "kulak" was the source of all evil and had to be brought to heel through collectivization. The most effective technique the Soviets found to accomplish this was mass starvation.
- lostlogin 6y agoI mostly agree - though the role of complete incompetence and mismanagement shouldn’t be overlooked.
- mc32 6y agoIt doesn’t matter who. The mechanism is always divide and conquer with the help of “useful idiots” in their parlance who are usually very enthusiastic members who believe the dogma a little too much and thus get in the way of “progress” and get “ditched” so to speak.
- 3131s 6y agoThese were not "useful idiots", and I don't think this oversimplification will help anyone understand what really happened in Cambodia. The mostly teenage-aged members of the Khmer Rouge had legitimate grievances of their own and Pol Pot capitalized on this, the extreme brutality of the US government, to oust the Lon Nol government on the basis of its alignment with the US.
- 6y ago
- wow_no 6y agoThis time, I’ll make Utopia work, because I’m a better person than those who tried before. I believe all the right things, after all.
- zigzagzog 6y agoWait till you see what BLM have in store.
- mc32 6y agoI hope this gets thoughtful discussion. The events are very tragic. I know people whose families were in danger of being sent to the camps —they escaped though laborious trudging through jungle at night, escape to Vietnam and then HK as boat people before moving on to better places. How does idealism end up in such a dark ditch like this where your own neighbor thinks the horror is so bad they have to go in a clean things up, despite nominally being “on the same side”
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- enitihas 6y agoAlmost any country which tries full on communism sadly ends up in a similar scenario. See USSR, Mao's China. In Mao's China, it was well apparent that the communal farms weren't working and even the people's daily wrote a story on it. The then high ranking party officials also opposed them. But Mao still got rid of them all and continued, causing several famines.
- walrus01 6y agoThe USSR at least pushed hard for science, engineering and technology education. Political party type and organization aside, the rapid growth of their electrical grid and large-scale engineering projects (hydroelectric dams, airports, nuclear power, hospitals etc) in the post-1945 era was quite rapid. The Khmer Rouge and its strongly anti-intellectual stance was quite the opposite. You can't return an entire country to an agrarian subsistence agriculture system and literally kill off every educated person that can be found, and expect good results...
- enitihas 6y agoThe USSR pushed hard for science which could improve the nation's global standing, like space missions. The USSR was no less anti intellectual in other fields like biology: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
- femiagbabiaka 6y agoSo much of the tragedy of our times has been along those lines. Reading this book (amongst others) about the atrocities committed in service of the British idea of utopia in India evoked similar feelings: https://www.amazon.com/Inglorious-Empire-What-British-India/dp/1849048088 https://www.amazon.com/Inglorious-Empire-What-British-India/.... In comparison, the turn towards soft power in the 21st century on the macro (political) and micro (personal) levels is much appreciated, despite all of its ills.
- growlist 6y agoAny particular reason you chose that example?
- blaser-waffle 6y agoFlog their book, push propaganda, or just someone projecting their feelings about a topic that is tangentially related to the main thread. HN is targeted by agi-prop and marketing as much as any other social media site.
- femiagbabiaka 6y agoPlease forward the list of acceptable books to discuss on HN so I can comply with it! I'm guessing Elad Gil, Peter Thiel... what else?
- femiagbabiaka 6y agobecause I read the book recently.. what an odd question. why post about khmer rouge or other atrocities at all?
- rado 6y agoDidn’t Kissinger’s atrocious bombing of Cambodia help pave way for the Khmer Rouge?
- tlear 6y agoCommunist ideology payed way for Khmer Rouge.
- pnw_hazor 6y agoAmerican/Western leftists supported and celebrated the Khmer Rouge revolution. In 1975, President Ford tried to resist the de-funding of anti-Khmer Rouge pro-American regime but the Democratic controlled congress stripped every nickel of US support. Chris Dodd and many other prominent leftists celebrated the move and welcomed the new future for Cambodia.
- jryle70 6y agoThat may strengthen their stand, but far from a key factor. Khmer Rouge was China's puppet and would not be able to come to power and carry out the genocide without China's support: > In April 1975, Khmer Rouge seized power in Cambodia, and in January, 1976, Democratic Kampuchea was established. During the Cambodian genocide, the CPC was the main international patron of the Khmer Rouge, supplying "more than 15,000 military advisers" and most of its external aid. It is estimated that at least 90% of the foreign aid to Khmer Rouge came from China, with 1975 alone seeing US$1 billion in interest-free economics and military aid and US$20 million gift, which was "the biggest aid ever given to any one country by China". In June 1975, Pol Pot and other officials of Khmer Rouge met with Mao Zedong in Beijing, receiving Mao's approval and advice; in addition, Mao also taught Pot his "Theory of Continuing Revolution under the Dictatorship of the Proletariat（无产阶级专政下继续革命理论）". High-ranking CPC officials such as Zhang Chunqiao later visited Cambodia to offer help [0] Khmer Rouge was also North Vietnam's ally since they both fought against US-backed governments in South Vietnam and Cambodia. They only became enemies after winning their respective wars [1], caused by in no small part the deteriorating China-Vietnam relation. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
- enitihas 6y ago> The Khmer Rouge was formed in 1968 as a revolutionary Communist party in Cambodia. Ok another communist utopia gone horribly wrong. I think China had one of the greatest leaders in Deng Xiaoping as he was able to steer a country which has deep ties to communism away from communism and make it the State Capitalist power it is today.
- thescriptkiddie 6y agoThe Khmer Rouge was communist in the much the same way as the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei was socialist.
- pnw_hazor 6y agoYou can find quotes from prominent western leftists pontificating that the Khmer Rouge may finally get communism right. Their praise continued even as they watched the death marches out of Phnom Penh.
- thescriptkiddie 6y agoAt the height of the cold-war, the US government supported the Khmer Rouge. On the other hand, the actually socialist (at the time) state of Vietnam invaded Cambodia and overthrew the Khmer Rouge. There might be a reason for that.
- noarchy 6y agoIs this another one of those "true communism has never been tried" posts that inevitably crop up?
- andrepd 6y agoYes China is definitely an example of a great place to live now...
- TerminalSystem3 6y agoFrom what my coworkers tell me, it's certainly better than it used to be. My old coworker would often fondly describe how he had to take a packed and miserable bus for almost a full day to get to Beijing when he was a kid, while now he can take an air conditioned high speed train in a fraction of the time.
- grawprog 6y agoMy last boss is probably one of the few people I know I would consider an actual genuine hero. He singlehandedly rescued his family from the Khmer Rouge and smuggled them out of the country through China, then to Britain and finally Canada. He started a business from nothing here and is probably the best employer i've ever had. His nephew was the manager while I worked there and is one of the greatest people i've met and became a good friend. Him and the rest of my boss' family wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for him. He lost a lot of friends and family because of the genocides.
- Natsu 6y agoYeah, I didn't appreciate this until I read about the survivors, but it's freaky to imagine that one day you go from living relatively normally, to being marched out of Phenom Penh at gunpoint by teenagers, separated from your family, and forced to become rice farming slaves. And they were slaves, one story is about a person who was starving, just like everyone else, who dared to catch a fish that swam between their legs to eat. They were shot for that. They also practiced eating the rich in the literal sense. For whatever odd cultural reason, they enjoyed eating human livers from people who were executed. When the civil war ended, the king asked the people to return their guns. The Khmer Rouge kept theirs and intercepted shipments thereof, easily taking over the disarmed areas.
- totetsu 6y agoI grew up in a town that received many Cambodian people displaced by this from Thai refugee camps. It's hard to imagine what my friends parents went through to keep their children alive. I have fond memories of their temple festivals and foods. I'm so grateful for societies that can include refugees and let people live a peaceful life.
- zozbot234 6y agoArticle is from (2016)
- dang 6y agoThanks! Added.
- ralfd 6y agoFunny, did you find that from the „notice the skulls“ reference in a certain subreddit?
- exolymph 6y agoHaha yes I did!
- chinhodado 6y agoAs a Vietnamese, one of the sad thing about this whole ordeal was how Vietnam's involvement in this was viewed under a very negative light by the world. The year was 1978. Vietnam had just came out of the country's great war 3 years earlier, and was extremely exhausted to put it lightly. The last thing it wanted was getting in another war. But it had no choice. The Khmer Rouge crossed the Cambodian - Vietnamese border, looted nearby villages and massacred the people. You can read up on the details, but be warned the atrocities will ruin your day. Under the circumstances which can be argued as an existential threat, Vietnam had no choice but to launch attack on the Khmer Rouge and swiftly got rid of them and liberated the Cambodian people, ending the genocide. Yet the world's view on this has been incredibly negative. Even now, Vietnam is often seen as the invader, the aggressor in the conflict instead of the Cambodian people's liberator.
- xuki 6y agoYou gotta see it from the other sides too. Vietnam had a strong standing army and took over a sovereign country, not that they had many choices, but that made the whole South East Asia uncomfortable. Who would be next? Thailand? Malaysia? Singapore? In fact, ASEAN was formed originally to fight communism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASEAN_Declaration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASEAN_Declaration
- refurb 6y agoAs I'm sure you know, there is a lot of history between the Vietnamese and Cambodians. I understood that Cambodians hold a lot of animosity when the Vietnamese took the Mekong delta from Cambodia in 1698. They ended up as 2nd class citizens and the Khmer Rouge figured it was a good time to take it back. And one can't ignore North Vietnam's support of the Khmer Rouge early on. On 29 March 1970, North Vietnam launched an offensive against the Cambodian army. Documents uncovered from the Soviet Union's archives reveal that the invasion was launched at the Khmer Rouge's explicit request after negotiations were held with Nuon Chea.[33] A North Vietnamese force quickly overran large parts of eastern Cambodia reaching within 15 miles (24 km) of Phnom Penh before being pushed back....After defeating those forces, the North Vietnamese turned the newly won territories over to the local insurgents.[1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide
- dr_dshiv 6y agoMarx on the need for a dictatorship of the proletariat, 1850: "When the Democrats propose measures which are not revolutionary, but merely reformist, the workers must press them to the point of turning such measures into direct attacks on private property; thus, for example, if the small middle class propose to purchase the railways and factories the workers must demand that such railways and factories, being the property of the reactionaries, shall be simply confiscated by the State, without compensation. If the Democrats propose a proportional tax, the workers must demand a progressive tax; if the Democrats themselves declare for a moderate progressive tax, the workers must insist on a tax so steeply graduated as to cause the collapse of large fortunes; if the Democrats demand the regulation of the State debt, the workers must demand State bankruptcy. Thus the demands of the workers must everywhere be directed against the concessions and measures of the Democrats.... to concentrate as much power as possible in the hands of the State. They need not be misled by democratic platitudes about the freedom of the Communes, self-determination, etc. Their battle-cry must be ‘the revolution in permanence.’”
- EarthIsHome 6y agoThe phrase "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" used to trip me up. It is the will of the people: a true democracy. As much as we call what we have a "democracy", we don't live in one; it's an illusion. What we have is a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie that ignores the masses.
- rumanator 6y ago> What we have is a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie that ignores the masses. Sounds like you've lost yourself in your wordplay. Where you draw the line between your "masses" and your "bourgeoise"?
- ipnon 6y agoAnd this tended to be the beginnings of violence in communist revolutions. It typically ends when the distinction between proletariat and bourgeoise dissolves into revolutionary and imperialist or party member and non-party member. Take China for example. The country became relatively peaceful internally once it became acceptable to merely not oppose the communist party, compared to the "revolutionary times" of the civil war and cultural revolution. I feel like good research on how and why revolutions arise, communist ones specifically, is lacking. We do not understand their initial conditions. Maybe we must turn to Marxists or communists directly for this understanding.
- geodel 6y agoWell that was then. This time we got it right.
- ZeroGravitas 6y agoDoes this skip over any bits or did it really go from "royal hanger on learns colonialism is bad in Paris" to "let's teach the kids how to torture people" really quickly in reality?
- cryptonector 6y ago[deleted]
- dang 6y agoPlease don't post generic ideological boilerplate to HN. An internet forum is incapable of treating this material in any way other than predictable, tedious flamewar. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20generic%20ideolog&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- sitkack 6y agoDid you train your screed with a mix of William Buckley and GPT2?
- walrus01 6y agoIt significant skips over pretty much the entire biography of Pol Pot and his early life, which can be found on the wikipedia page and linked citations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
- 1MachineElf 6y agoA family member who was there provided me these points: As the civil war ended, the armed population was told by the king to give their weapons back to the government. The Khmer Rouge kept their arms and 1) easily overtook disarmed areas, and 2) intercepted the shipments of arms which were collected.
- 1MachineElf 6y agoMy fianceé's mother was one of those children who was seperated from her parents in Cambodia during this time. What became of them is unknown, but it could have been any of the gruesome fates covered by this exposé. I learned a portion of the story from what she could share through tears, and thanks to this article I now understand more. Thanks for sharing. One day I will need to go there and see some of these sites for myself.
- walrus01 6y agoFor anyone who hasn't seen it, I recommend watching The Killing Fields. Obviously it's from a very British/American perspective. Since I doubt that the film production companies that made it are earning much, if any revenue from it these days, I don't feel bad about linking to a torrent of it: https://rarbg.to/torrent/cbm3x4z https://rarbg.to/torrent/cbm3x4z https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Fields_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Fields_(film)
- anonAndOn 6y agoHighly recommended. Haing Ngor won the Best Supporting Academy Award for his portrayal which also may have offended Pol Pot/the Khmer rouge enough to get him killed. [0] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haing_S._Ngor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haing_S._Ngor
- hutzlibu 6y ago"Defense attorneys suggested the murder was a politically motivated killing carried out by sympathizers of the Khmer Rouge, but offered no evidence to support this theory.[13] Kang Kek Iew, a former Khmer Rouge official on trial in Cambodia, claimed in November 2009 that Ngor was murdered on Pol Pot's orders, but U.S. investigators did not find him credible." More likely just murder and theft, it seems.
- anonAndOn 6y agoSelective quote, much? The very next sentence is, "Some criticized the theory that Ngor was killed in a bungled robbery, pointing to $2,900 in cash which had been left behind and the fact that the thieves had not rifled his pockets."
- hutzlibu 6y agoNope, I just stopped reading there. But I still see no convincing link to the red khmer.
- deleted 6y ago
- dr_dshiv 6y ago>As described in PBS’s Frontline documentary series, “Instead of becoming pariahs, the Khmer Rouge continued to play a significant role in Cambodian politics for the next two decades.The Khmer Rouge would likely not have survived without the support of its old patron China and a surprising new ally: the United States. Norodom Sihanouk, now in exile after briefly serving as head of state under the Khmer Rouge, formed a loose coalition with the guerillas to expel the Vietnamese from Cambodia. The United States gave the Sihanouk-Khmer Rouge coalition millions of dollars in aid while enforcing an economic embargo against the Vietnamese-backed Cambodian government. The Carter administration helped the Khmer Rouge keep its seat at the United Nations, tacitly implying that they were still the country’s legitimate rulers."
- leephillips 6y agoThis was aided by Noam Chomsky, who used his considerable influence to cast doubt on the idea that the genocide had happened at all.
- Cyph0n 6y agoWe’re going to need a reference for this one.
- notahacker 6y agohttps://chomsky.info/19770625/ https://chomsky.info/19770625/ Perhaps the worst bit is where he dismisses the testimony of thousands of Cambodian refugees as 'refugees questioned by Westerners or Thais have a vested interest in reporting atrocities on the part of Cambodian revolutionaries', arguing one should put more weight to the testimony of an anonymous European in Phnom Penh who apparently did enough cycling around to know that the only people being executed were 'prominent politicans' and 'hated bomber pilots'. Meta: Chomsky certainly wasn't the loudest or most committed defender of the Khmer Rouge on the Western left and obviously the left didn't make US policy and probably wouldn't have influenced it much if they'd been united on the evils of the Khmer Rouge from the very beginning. But this article and his continued insistence it was reasonable at the time [whilst others have admitted to being blinded by their biases] doesn't reflect well on him.
- phenkdo 6y agoThis is a great "follow-up" documentary about the reporter investigating his family's deaths and talking to Pol Pot's deputy "brother number 2" icymi https://enemiesofthepeoplemovie.com/ https://enemiesofthepeoplemovie.com/
- refurb 6y agoHoly god that trailer is chilling.
- peisistratos 6y agoThe US tends to play word games to where they never armed the Taliban, Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda in the 1970s and 1980s. In the same manner its easy to play word games to where after years of screaming headlines about genocide (which I guess does not include the US carpet bombing of Cambodia), as soon as the Khmer Rouge, whatever that is supposed to be, gets pushed out of power in 1979, the US begins aiding the KR in a myriad of ways, including in 1985 when it began somewhat openly, somewhat clandestinely, arming the Khmer Rouge. ( This marks the start of the heavy armament https://www.nytimes.com/1985/04/10/world/u-s-may-help-2-rebel-groups-of-cambodians.html https://www.nytimes.com/1985/04/10/world/u-s-may-help-2-rebe... - note all the denials that any of the arms are going to the KR - later reports showed they indeed were). It's kind of amusing to watch Americans in hysterics claiming a group is committing genocide, then arming that group for victory in their civil war, then going back to tearing their shirts about this genocide they claim happened. If it happened, then the good old USA armed the KR after all the period it supposedly happened.
- dang 6y agoPlease don't take HN further into political, ideological, and nationalistic flamewar. It's tedious and evokes worse from others. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- drocer88 6y agoDo you have any evidence that the U.S. directly supported the Taliban or al-Qaeda?
- walrus01 6y agoThey didn't, he's oversimplifying it greatly. The US armed the Mujahadeen throughout the 1980s (through the Pakistani ISI and Pakistani state), leaving behind a vast amount of unused weaponry in Afghanistan. This was during the period prior to the soviet ground forces' withdrawal from Afghanistan and prior to the ending of the Najibullah government, and the killing of Najibullah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Najibullah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Najibullah It definitely is a fact that during the 1980s the US pursued a policy of "the enemy of my enemy...", in which the hardcore fundamentalist/sharia law politics and religious ideology of some of the mujahadeen they supported (Bin Laden included), were seen as secondary or tertiary to the primary mission of killing soviet soldiers, and bringing about the end of the soviet-backed government. Some of the former Muj, predominantly the very fundamentalist Pashtun factions, later became the Taliban which seized Kandahar in 1994, and then Kabul in 1996. At that point the US had not been supporting them for at least 4 years. After the Taliban became an actual "thing" the US shifted its support to the northern alliance/northern warlords such as Dostum and Massoud.
- aaron695 6y agoI think by far the best documentary on Cambodia is - The Cambodian Space Project: Not Easy Rock'n'Roll (2015) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4678238/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4678238/ It ties the past to the present and it doesn't bring the whole country to that one incident but also acknowledges it has affected so much.
- sleepyhead 6y agoOh didn’t know there was a documentary, will check it out. I saw them do a musical in Kampot which was very interesting. RIP Srey Thy, too early.
- Freeboots 6y agoIn a similar vein, Don't Think I've Forgotten: Cambodia's Lost Rock and Roll