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Anything Atlasssian. Jira, Bitbucket, confluence. Just frustrating to use, poor UX, and slow. Business types love them however. AWS. It’s UI is honestly baffli

Anything Atlasssian. Jira, Bitbucket, confluence. Just frustrating to use, poor UX, and slow. Business types love them however. AWS. It’s UI is honestly baffling, it feels and looks like someone made it in a rush with jQuery and Bootstrap years ago. It’s login and identity and resource management is confusing, and apparently you need a chrome extension which adds a bunch of complicated options I don’t really understand just to be able to change roles. It is literally years behind Azure. Git. It’s purposely archaic commands and syntax leads to too many accidents far too often. I recently started using Gitkraken which allows you to pull changes WITHOUT needing to commit locally first because it uses stashes. It basically does the same option. Why can’t git be smart like that? Linux. It’s great, but it’s so easy to run into configuration problems or poor documentation. Docker. Again it’s great but for whatever reason it just works poorly on ARM and the whole ecosystem is geared to x86 and it just goes and pulls the x86 images and then fails to run them. Come on.

_august 6y ago
I started using Clubhouse (https://clubhouse.io https://clubhouse.io) for my personal projects and like it a lot for a light-weight alternative to Jira, yet more powerful than Trello. Not sure how it scales for big teams though.
- midrus 6y ago
  We use it at work. Many teams of 5-8 people. We love it.
- fancyfish 6y ago
  Thanks, we started using Clubhouse about 7 months ago and have very few complaints. The main thing being it doesn’t have multi-second Lang after creating new issues. Clubhouse is the first Jira replacement we’ve tried that the devs actually like using. Doesn’t have the laundry list of features Jira has, but meets our needs (team of 20).
- jon-wood 6y ago
  Clubhouse is great for large teams, but every project manager who starts will spend their first month bitching that it isn’t Jira.
mdaniel 6y ago
> AWS. ... apparently you need a chrome extension which adds a bunch of complicated options I don’t really understand just to be able to change roles I strongly agree with the rest of your characterization of the AWS console, but that one isn't true: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_roles_use_switch-role-console.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_roles_us... -- we use IAM Roles extensively at $DAYJOB and have not yet experienced anything that would require a Chrome extension to work around like you describe Their login screen, however, continues to drive everyone crazy since the URL you visit depends greatly on which account, and at what level, you wish to authenticate to the console. With any setup containing a non-trivial number of AWS accounts, it's just "oh, what account am I logged into" waiting to happen
- aamoscodes 6y ago
  My personal issue right now is that I have multiple accounts with MFA and there’s no easy way to differentiate them besides this generated account ID in the auth app. This means I have to create some type of mapping table between the ID and the account, or try to remember what’s available
  - mdaniel 6y ago
    Every MFA app I've used has the ability to rename the entry, since the MFA key and the text that are displayed to the user are 100% unrelated to one another. And I recognize that you might not have the correct privilege level to carry it out, but AWS does allow you to create account aliases, which helpfully shows up in the console login URL
    - NomDePlum 6y ago
      Exactly what I was about to say. For reference account aliases are documented at: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sdk-for-javascript/v2/developer-guide/iam-examples-account-aliases.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sdk-for-javascript/v2/developer-...
  - tsimionescu 6y ago
dasil003 6y ago
Disagree strongly on git. On the surface the syntax is ugly, but the data model is brilliant. Once you wrap your mind around what commits, heads and remotes are and learn to rebase you get an incredibly simple and fine-grained control. I never use stash because it's trivial to create a WIP commit and rebase later into the chunks I want to ship to permanent history. Git is like a chef's knife: extremely powerful tool that's dangerous in untrained hands.
- millimeterman 6y ago
  I think the best argument against git is to use mercurial for a few months. It has exactly the same functionality but a nicer and more streamlined interface, especially when it comes to branch management.
  - nickpeterson 6y ago
    Yeah, when dvcs started becoming all the rage I tried mercurial first for some toy projects and really liked it. When I finally had to start using git I was absolutely baffled that it had won. I feel like git needs something that sits on top and does most the normal configuration and wraps the api. It reminds me of the problem with emacs, there is so much it’s just overwhelming to people.
    - smichel17 6y ago
      Technically this already exists; git commands are divided into two groups, plumbing and porcelain. Plumbing commands have stable interfaces and are intended for building alternative interfaces with; porcelain commands are intended to sit on top and be the actual user interface. They're what you're used to using.
  - smichel17 6y ago
    Do you think mercurial has a better data model, or could git reach parity with just a better interface?
    - 6y ago
jamil7 6y ago
Don’t agree with you about git at all, I find it’s one of the few tools I work with that behaves expectedly and gets out of my way, if you want that workflow of stash, pull and reapply a stash why not make an alias for it?
- modeless 6y ago
  git config pull.rebase true git config rebase.autoStash true I think these should have been the defaults but they weren't implemented until later and it's hard to change defaults.
  - zyberzero 6y ago
    TIL. Thank you for this!
  - lordgrenville 6y ago
    Great to know about these. I still think the current default is better: for a new user, it might be scary for your uncommitted changes to "vanish" into a stash.
    - modeless 6y ago
      The stash is popped before the command finishes, so your changes don't appear to vanish. Unless there's a conflict while rebasing a prior commit. Actually I'm not sure if aborting the rebase at that point would pop the autostash, but it should.
      - lordgrenville 6y ago
        Got it. In that case I agree.
  - hiyer 6y ago
    Setting rebase to true by default is not a good idea if you push your code to your dev branch regularly (rather than just committing).
StratusBen 6y ago
As for the AWS UI: I completely agree. I'm in the early access beta for a product being built that solves almost all of its problems and felt you might want to see it: https://vantage.sh/ https://vantage.sh/ Pretty sure they said they're launching in July so should be live soon.
- schoolornot 6y ago
  Unless this is a Chrome extension to redress the existing console there is an approximately 0% chance that I'm handing keys over or giving some unknown entity cross account access for a better UX.
schoolornot 6y ago
Jira with a dozen plugins is a death sentence for productivity. Oh Atlassian finally fixed that bug you reported a decade ago? It might have to wait a few months because none of your plugins are compatible with the new Jira release.
29athrowaway 6y ago
Enterprise software are like baby outfits you get as baby shower gifts. They are cute, but they have lots of buttons or they have some decoration that makes them hard to wash, making them impractical to use. While no parent would buy these, every parent has them, because someone else made the decision to buy them.
- dnautics 6y ago
  original source (AFICT): https://twitter.com/random_walker/status/1182635589604171776 https://twitter.com/random_walker/status/1182635589604171776
  - 29athrowaway 6y ago
    Yes! And also the experience of a recent baby shower.
blocked_again 6y ago
> feels and looks like someone made it in a rush with jQuery and Bootstrap years ago. Unnecessary dig at Bootstrap and jQuery. There are plenty of websites with great UI built using bootstrap. I don't understand how using jQuery has anything to do with the UI though. It's just a wrapper around JavaScript.
- edoceo 6y ago
  It's just using name brands for describing legacy-jank-by-noobs - not really a dig at those specific tools
  - lloydatkinson 6y ago
    Fully this and I think they knew this as well but couldn’t resist pretending to be offended. There’s always one.
- lloydatkinson 6y ago
  Ok boomer
kevsim 6y ago
Fully agree on Jira. Disliked it enough to start a company to compete with it [0]. Also agree on AWS. Their UI is so terrible and confusing that it makes writing CloudFormation yaml files feel alright in comparison. Been using GCP lately and the UI is somewhat better though still confusing and weird at times. 0: https://kitemaker.co https://kitemaker.co
- fredfjohnsen 6y ago
  Neat. You made Trello.
  - dean177 6y ago
    That app looks considerably more powerful that trello. Why so dismissive?
    - _tbyy 6y ago
      If you haven't noticed the chorus of trashing Jira for the sake trashing Jira in this forum you aren't reading it. It borders on the hysterical. A large part of this crowd believes they have an objective handle on cognitive bias yet most of the Jira commentary seems to come from the subjective experiences of developers who simply don't like having their work organized or fixing bugs. Jira is the most extensible, best platform of its type for workflow management & I would argue (without at all being linked to Atlassian in any way other way than having seen it succeed in numerous disparate use cases) that bad experiences with it are the direct result of not having any idea how to use or configure it correctly to model the work being done.
      - keeganpoppen 6y ago
        i am completely fascinated by this response. it is literally so dense with self-parody and hacker-news-ness that any attempt to quote it, analyze, refute, or satirize it in any way would only dilute the message.
        6y ago
mytailorisrich 6y ago
> I recently started using Gitkraken which allows you to pull changes WITHOUT needing to commit locally first because it uses stashes. It basically does the same option. Why can’t git be smart like that? This is not being smart, this is trying to be too clever for one's own good. Git does what it does because it wants you to know what might happen and to decide explicitly. If I do a 'git pull' without remembering that I was doing something and that just goes through and stash my changes automatically then I have lost the exact state I was working in and I need to work to recover it. Now, on the other hand if git stops and tell me that I have changes pending then I can think and decide. It only takes a few seconds. Trying to automate too much can be a false economy.
- lloydatkinson 6y ago
  Ok I agree that yes you might be worried about current state but generally that’s not something I ever experience whether that’s a solo repo or a team repo. Making some basically fake WIP commit just to keep in sync with the changes is ridiculous to me.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
nolroz 6y ago
I used to think I hated Jira until I had to use WorkFront. God awful.
- 0xJRS 6y ago
  We switched from Jira to Rally about a year ago. Our company just did a survey about which tool they'd rather use and Jira won by over 95%. We actually joked about having a party for using Jira.
  - adwww 6y ago
    Jira is a pain, but at least it's a known pain and a semi useful skill you can take with you when you leave that company.
hocuspocus 6y ago
I can say many things about BitBucket but it isn't slow. In fact it's significantly more reactive than GitHub and GitLab in my experience. Also your posts are hard to read if you systematically writes it's when you mean its.
theknarf 6y ago
I love it. A list where I disagree on everything you listed up. Then again, I understand where you're coming from, I simply don't agree.
etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
Interesting perspective about AWS. I like it. It is boring and functional. It’s not pretty but it doesn’t need to be. If anything I wish they would just change it even less than they do. It does have its buggy areas though, which could be a lot better.
- etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
  Another thought, I think I like it for the same reasons many here like Windows 2000...
BusterStatus 6y ago
Atlassian does not seem to have an interest in listening to their users. My workflow would be so much better if they implemented browser or desktop notifications, but they only support email or extensions/add-ons if you self-host. Our company uses cloud though, so despite all the countless threads asking for native functionality, they insist it is not important for users.
- zmmmmm 6y ago
  Like every business focused company that got large enough, they stopped making it for the users ages ago and now make it for the influencers in the middle management chain and above that decide on IT purchase decisions. And most of that is about putting CYA far above usability.
- goatinaboat 6y ago
  Atlassian does not seem to have an interest in listening to their users. But they do. Their users are project managers. The genius of Atlassian is how they’ve managed to convince so many programmers that it’s for them. It never was!
nateroling 6y ago
What’s wrong with Confluence? We have a recently-acquired team at work that uses it for everything, and loves it. I’ve used it a bit, and I think it looks awesome, and the pricing is super reasonable. Confluence looks better than everything else I’ve tried/used as a doc platform: Notion, Nuclino, Coda, Sharepoint, OneNote, Azure DevOps wiki, Microsoft Teams wiki...
- adwww 6y ago
  It doesn't help that the Markdown flavour is not standard, and is different again from most other Atlassian products.
  - mr_toad 6y ago
    And you can only use it to compose and not edit.
- tetraca 6y ago
  My experience with confluence is that it just becomes a landfill of articles that are never read or cared about after 1-2 days they're created.
  - nateroling 6y ago
    Any suggestions for platforms that help fight against that tendency?
    - Trias11 6y ago
      Robust search. Sorry - not the platform, but capability.
  - EdwardDiego 6y ago
    Confluence is where documentation goes to die. And then rot.
- thakoppno 6y ago
  the one confluence thing that gets me is that when editing, it intercepts the command + 1 keypresses when im trying to switch tabs. instead, it just makes my current line h1.
andrei_says_ 6y ago
I’m not by any means an advanced git user but find it to be well-designed and elegant. And, being constantly refined.
Ozzie_osman 6y ago
Agree 100% with everything except for Linux and Git.
jerzyt 6y ago
You are so right about Atlassian tools. I cannot stand Jira. Very often, it's easier and faster to fix a bug, then to update the status in Jira. It's clutterware.
- cben 6y ago
  When we were forced to start use Jira a year ago it was kinda maybe acceptable, but every week someone in the organization adds a new custom field to issues, so it's growing scarier than bugzilla...
- mhermher 6y ago
  Why is JIRA so slow?
  - timw4mail 6y ago
    Because it's a SPA trying to make 200 requests to get a ticket...and I'm barely exaggerating.
    - mikeyjk 6y ago
      JIRA is not doing the SPA cause any favours :P. My rage builds even just trying to use the search bar on JIRA. Keys don't get captured and get registered as page hot keys, or some keys are registered and others aren't. Crazy, just give me a dumb static search bar if you're not going to make life better. /Rant
    - Illniyar 6y ago
      JIRA was not always an SPA and it was still slow back when it was multi page.
  - jordwest 6y ago
    My understanding is that JIRA was originally built as an on-premises solution, so request latency wasn't an issue. Then they moved everything to a cloud hosted solution, but the assumption of requests being effectively zero latency was still built-in, so now firing hundreds of requests with high latency makes everything feel super sluggish. I'm working on my own issue tracker [0] that stores everything locally, which means no network latency. Eventually I'd like to build a sync backend for it so you can share it with a team, but for now everything runs locally. [0] https://twigtask.com/ https://twigtask.com/
1ris 6y ago
I could not disagree more with Atlassian. They are among the best software i have ever used. Especially bitbucket is superb. Confluence is by far the best wiki I have ever used. Jira is 10x better than any alternative I'm aware of.
- xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
  That doesn't mean the tools are not terrible, which they undoubtedly are.
  - 1ris 6y ago
    No, it does mean exactly this for me. For me they are not only undoubtedly great, but among the best software i have ever used. But then again, I also love git. Maybe we have different ideas how software should and shouldn't be. /edit: For clarity: Microsoft Office and SAP are how I think enterprise software should not be. And Atlassian is kind of the opposite.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  Bitbucket is an acquisition that was decent before the takeover. Jira: How hard can we make it to manage bugs? Jama: How hard can we make it to navigate the document tree?
- rustybolt 6y ago
  I think Confluence and Bitbucket work well enough. I hate Jira with a passion though.
SN76477 6y ago
My company wanted me and the rest of the marketing team on Jira. Immediately I was like wtf is this. We were back on Trello after just a few weeks.
- chrisfrantz 6y ago
  Yeah don’t let that happen. Same thing was tried with me a few years ago and I noped out quickly. Notion is great for marketing teams though.
  - SN76477 6y ago
    I cannot get with Notion. It is a jack of all trades master of none. It dives me crazy just trying to organize things and link it all together, it is more work than it is worth at this time. Maybe the API will change that.
    - chrisfrantz 6y ago
      If it’s for marketing and you need a hand setting it up, shoot me an email through my profile and I’d be happy to share an overview of setups I’ve used. It took me a bit for it to click also, but now that it has I can’t imagine using any other tool for our marketing team.
nwatson 6y ago
Hmm, I think (Atlassian) Confluence is quite awesome. While you can still replicate the mess you'd naturally have in Google-Docs or OneNote or other places, at least with Confluence if you have a coherent vision for how your organize your information you can create a very useful body of work. I've never seen a Google-Docs, OneNote, SharePoint, or other unstructured-info solution that doesn't devolve into turds-in-gelatin. I'll add as well (Atlassian) SourceTree (git UI). I don't want to be a git jockey and I can do 90% of what I need in the SourceTree UI -- it's saved me tons of time, and I especially like the chunk-stage/unstage/reset functionality (you can stage/unstage/undo fragments of files in the UI) -- this feature alone is gold. SourceTree performance has improved greatly. I only wish there were a Linux version, but fortunately I do most development on macOS. EDIT: SourceTree
- nemothekid 6y ago
  The bar for Confluence isn't Google Docs or OneNote. It's Notion or Coda. After using Notion I can't go back to Confluence, for the same reason I can't go back to any Atlassian product - it's way too slow and the UX is too convoluted.
  - nateroling 6y ago
    Two things bother me about Notion as a documentation platform: no “plain” tables, and the potential for infinite unnecessary complexity with its databases. I love notion, but as a company-scale doc platform I don’t think it’s there yet.
- monkpit 6y ago
  > (you can stage/unstage/undo fragments of files in the UI) To be fair, this has nothing to do with SourceTree. You can do this with any git tool, since it’s a feature of git.
- johnwalkr 6y ago
  No matter what I’ve tried, nothing beats google docs for me (in a mixed discipline work environment). It has the familiarity of a folder structure, good collaboration features and version history that works well for non technical users. It works well enough that few users fall back on v2_final-edit naming nonsense. Other tools have a slight edge for organizing information, but no good way to keep both files and Documents together. Which means people use files locally and don’t keep them up to date on the system. It had 3 pain points for me that are resolved recently. First, they got rid of the desktop clients so users can’t move stuff to their desktop without understanding this is removing files for others. Second, team drives resolve the mess that was shared folders. Third, it can now edit office documents directly, avoiding the confusion of google doc copies appearing. I use confluence a lot and I never trust that files on it are up to date. It doesn’t quite have enough features to make “native” documents, so it ends up with a lot of content stored as attachments, which inevitably get updated and passed around by email. It’s not convenient for storing files so all of the miscellaneous small files never make it there. If you use a lot of addins, it becomes usable to make documents but since it’s atrocious at outputting files, eventually a final version of something needs to be edited in word and now it’s even worse, you have what looks like an up to date document but the latest version is a word file, which is either hidden as an attachment or not even uploaded. I can see it working well in a team of only software engineers, however.
arein2 6y ago
The author asked for the worst software. However you listed Atlassian, which is really nice (Try alternatives like CA Rally which is horrible) Git, Linux which are gifts from god Docker, which helped containers become mainstream and enabled the nice infrastructure we can have today Facepalm, I sometimes forget such people exist
- samcodes 6y ago
  I don’t understand how someone can say “this is the worst software I use daily” and then you say “you are wrong.” Maybe you use worse software than them? Also, you seem to implicitly default to comparing each piece of software to others in it's class; you’re grading on a curve. The parent comment is saying “of all software, these are the worst”, and you are saying “but other PM/VC/OS software is worse” which is different. For example, git is the best version control software; it is also a disaster of a UX. Your appraisal of Docker is also too generous, I honestly can’t tell if it’s sarcasm
  - arein2 6y ago
    When you don’t know what to say, better say nothing or I don’t know. Instead it proceeds to list the best software in class used by the developers. It just sounds stupid to me. Regarding Docker, I have this opinion because Docker was the trend for a few years, at every conference there was a hipster making a presentation about docker. So I think Docker made containers the cool topic and a lot of people started using containers because of that. And because a lot of people used it, new services/software started appearing around it. Yes, Docker uses the existing kernel apis for containerization, but the value it added was publicity, ease of use and adoption for containers, not the core features
  - lloydatkinson 6y ago
    What did I miss? It was deleted
    - arein2 6y ago
      Someone listed confluence, jira, linux, git, docker as the worst software he worked with
etimberg 6y ago
Jira is such a pain to work with. For example, there seem to be two different ways to create a new issue. If you get to the one that uses a modal, the text input is in Textile format. Whereas the other page uses Markdown. It's insane that anyone thought that was a good idea
- lstamour 6y ago
  They’re apparently trying to switch from using something like confluence markup to using the markdown that just about everyone expects now... https://support.atlassian.com/jira-core-cloud/docs/markdown-and-keyboard-shortcuts/ https://support.atlassian.com/jira-core-cloud/docs/markdown-... But like everything Jira, they can never seem to find the energy to redo everything all at once, so they do it one screen or one section at a time instead... reminds me of how Office apps never improve all at the same time, just a bit at a time... in one app... if you’re running the Cloud version...
  - loopz 6y ago
    It's what passes for Agile these days, ie. push half-cooked changes upon your users.
- johnwalkr 6y ago
  Is that what it is? I thought it was our own misconfiguration because it’s so hard to configure screens / easy to misconfigure them.
  - etimberg 6y ago
    I think so, I haven't seen a way to configure it and it seems to happen by default in new projects
FridgeSeal 6y ago
> AWS... It is literally years behind Azure. I’m going to have to disagree with you here, AWS has some quirks, but the UI is being actively worked on and improved but Azure is an outright dumpster fire. Who thought scrolling sideways was a great idea? Why does the x close _everything_ and take you back to the dashboard and not just close the current pane? Why is everything about permissions and auth so hard to find?
- mekster 6y ago
  Who likes Azure interface? It's Windows 95 on the web. Unless you know how to navigate having remembered all the maze structure with years of operation, I can't for the sake find what costed what in the last month. UI is a total joke. It's like a machine built it literally just listing everything instead of by a human mind.
  - dynamite-ready 6y ago
    It's not just the UI either, have you seen the REST API for Azure Blob Storage? It's Kafkaesque. And Cosmos DB? 'Request Units'? W. T. F.
    - FridgeSeal 6y ago
      Oh god their units! Provisioning disks comes with the caveat that on AKS, Kubernetes sees things one way, but Azure bills you in some bizarre, Azure specific unit of disk space and speed and then there’s whatever the hell goes on with the pricing / units on the SQL Server instances...
      - mr_gibbins 6y ago
        Ah, you'd be talking about DTUs! Those are fun. Blended measures of CPU, IO and some other Magic(TM) factor. Impossible to predict how your workload maps to DTUs until you try it and see.
- vladvasiliu 6y ago
chx 6y ago
The git safety net against accidental resets is at https://gist.github.com/chx/3a694c2a077451e3d446f85546bb9278 https://gist.github.com/chx/3a694c2a077451e3d446f85546bb9278
slewis 6y ago
It's fair to call out Atlassian & Jira here. But I want to give them some credit. They recently rolled out a Jira change that was a huge step in the right direction (navbar at the top that can take you directly to projects and commonly used filters, among other things). It is a HUGE improvement. So it seems they may have finally figured out how to listen and improve UX. This is no small task for software that's used by so many different orgs for as many different purposes. But really what holds it back still is sluggishness. I'd take a few extra clicks in exchange for instantaneous responses to each click.
grumple 6y ago
Totally agree with Atlassian/AWS. Two senior devs should not have to pour over dozens of pages of documentation to figure out how to add a role to a user using SAML. Git and Linux are great though. Git is well understood and, if you don't do bad things in the first place, easy to use. It's explicit. Linux itself works great and is straightforward. Docker is hit or miss for me.
- potta_coffee 6y ago
  I feel your pain on the AWS SAML config. Actually anything with Cognito is this way too, circular documentation links that never actually lead you to your destination. It's like being in a labyrinth.
mtm7 6y ago
Glad to hear someone feels the same way about Git. I understand why some people love it, but I think it’s overly complex for most workflows.
- lloydatkinson 6y ago
  Fully agreed. My comment about how it doesn’t stash by default for example. Gitkraken seems to do the same default.
- thewebcount 6y ago
  Yeah, I've used a lot of different version control systems (RCS, CVS, SourceSafe, Perforce, svn, git), and by far the most confusing and infuriating is git with it's made-up words, bizarre naming, and the extra work it makes you do. Terrible to use. It does the thing it was designed to do, but good luck not screwing up because of its byzantine commands.
miguelmota 6y ago
At first I found it hard to use AWS because some services are a combination of other services and it was confusing but after dedicating time to learning what each service does then everything just clicked. Obviously the UX is still terrible for beginners because there’s a lot of assumptions but I found it to be pretty manageable after learning the fundamentals of AWS.
kamaal 6y ago
>>and slow Enterprise Atlassian is so slow, I have to often click a link, and go do something else and come back. Sometimes I even forget why I even clicked on a Jira link, having lost the thought trail.
saurik 6y ago
You aren't really supposed to be using the AWS Console... the whole point of AWS is automation, not bespoke one-off configuration via a GUI: when they launched it it didn't even have a UI, and the command line tooling was more of a demo set of wrappers for the API to help you debug calls and do some simple shell script automation.
- mekster 6y ago
  And you think that's how the majority of the users use it? It needs decent UI. I'll never consider using Azure if the choice is on me because... crazy UI.
zamalek 6y ago
> Atlassian [...] Git Try TFS (especially TFSVC) for a few hours. At least Atlassian fails at attempts to write software for developers/engineers. TFS is written for managers: to hell with your productivity.
cel1ne 6y ago
If you have a mac, look into GitUp. It's a great git-client and it creates a timelined snapshot-backup after every action, so you can undo whatever you did.
- dmacedo 6y ago
  Haven't checked it out yet, but is that just git reflog with extra steps?
- tandr 6y ago
  I tried GitUp, but I found Fork (https://fork.dev/home https://fork.dev/home) to be user friendly (IMHO, YMMV)
hijef 6y ago
I first read Atlassian and could potentially get on board (they have made tons of QoL changes, which I love and actually like. Their API still isn't that great, though). And same with AWS. At first it's confusing for sure. A lot of their offerings are wrappers around OSS that is much more intuitive. But comparatively to Azure and GCF, they're all confusing at first. But then I read git, Docker, and Linux. Now I'm concerned about your approach to any of these tools. For example Linux. There is _a lot_ of documentation out there. Man pages and arch Linux wiki just to name two that have a massive knowledge base. Git. I mean holy smokes, I'm going to assume you've never used any other VCS because everything else before it was hell on earth (in my opinion, people have things to say about this). I would focus on learning some git commands and I think you'll really like it. Going straight into a GUI you might be confused when you have to fix a problem via CLI when GUI messes it up. Docker - yeah, I see your point. It's not as apparent when you're trying to pull different architecture images. Kind of a shame. Maybe Rust WASM/WASI will replace it one day (kind of joking here).
- dirkt 6y ago
  I love git, but the command-line interface feels like it was grown over some time (which it was). It's just very ad-hoc in what commands are used to accomplish something. The underlying architecture of git is awesome, but even if I know exactly what I want to do based on my understanding on the architecture, it's not obvious which command and which switches to use to achieve this. And I use the command-line all day, and I am good at remembering switches. But still, for git I've written myself a list on what combinations to what, and when I need to do something more exotic, I look it up in that list. A more consistent CLI would allow me to do what I want without lookup.
  - lloydatkinson 6y ago
    This is exactly what I meant, but I guess people were more interested in ad-hominem attacks because I questioned their favourite tools. I also have a list of magic combinations that I know do the thing I need. But I don’t really use them now because I use a GUI.
- lloydatkinson 6y ago
kyriakos 6y ago
You can't mention UX in Atlasssian without mentioning bamboo. It's the pinnacle of random placed ui elements. It's faster to navigate by remembering URLs and typing in the browser address bar
mekster 6y ago
> Linux. It’s great, but it’s so easy to run into configuration problems or poor documentation. Linux? Are you serious? You mean some app that you're using on top of Linux. Can't believe you dismiss one of the best open source project with a few baseless lines.
- lloydatkinson 6y ago
  I can’t believe you dismissed my argument in a few baseless lines either.
rpadovani 6y ago
Shameless chiming in about AWS: I am working on a alternative web console for AWS, https://daintree.app https://daintree.app, to have a better UX. It's still in its early days, so not many resources are supported, but I work over it every weekend. It has multi region support (so you can have a fast overview without changing page), fast role switching, it's completely client side (so you don't have to share your credentials with a third-party) and of course it's opensource: https://github.com/rpadovani/daintree https://github.com/rpadovani/daintree
tjpnz 6y ago
Confluence is trash. It's slow, buggy, has a terrible UI which is always being messed with (or in Atlassian speak: "improved") and is constantly finding new ways to be unhelpful. Example: if you're trying open a template you don't have access to there's no way of requesting access to it. Confluence instead tells you to ask the person who created it to grant you access. Who?
touristtam 6y ago
Anything Atlassian is often better than anything I have tried in a corporate environment, including MSFT pile of dog poo. It might be slow as a dead dog, ugly as hell, and cumbersome to configure, but it just somehow works. I still don't like it and rate it poorly every time the feedback box comes up, but you never know how good you have it until you have to use something worse. As for Git, try to go back to SVN ....
Aperocky 6y ago
> AWS. It’s UI is honestly baffling Haha I used to have the same thought before I joined. But I've since understood that AWS is a set of APIs which is the default interface and everything is able to be called programmatically - the UI only tracks the API. It's not the default mode of use nor is it meant to be.
- potta_coffee 6y ago
  Accurate. 95% of my AWS usage is over APIs / SDK now so I don't mind the UI so much.
jmb12686 6y ago
Docker most definitely has ARM and multi-architecture support. That is, assuming the particular image you are attempting to pull has been published using the Manifest V2 spec and has ARM images published. The issue you mention is an issue with the image publisher/maintainer not Docker itself. I maintain a number of Docker images that have multiarch support (as seen in the Tags view on DockerHub: https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/socat/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/socat/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/unifi https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/unifi https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/elasticsearch/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/elasticsearch/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/kibana/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/kibana/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/filebeat/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/filebeat/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/cadvisor/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/cadvisor/
- lloydatkinson 6y ago
  Yeah you are right but I find so many images that aren’t published correctly

_august 6y ago

I started using Clubhouse (https://clubhouse.io https://clubhouse.io) for my personal projects and like it a lot for a light-weight alternative to Jira, yet more powerful than Trello. Not sure how it scales for big teams though.

midrus 6y ago
We use it at work. Many teams of 5-8 people. We love it.
fancyfish 6y ago
Thanks, we started using Clubhouse about 7 months ago and have very few complaints. The main thing being it doesn’t have multi-second Lang after creating new issues. Clubhouse is the first Jira replacement we’ve tried that the devs actually like using. Doesn’t have the laundry list of features Jira has, but meets our needs (team of 20).
jon-wood 6y ago
Clubhouse is great for large teams, but every project manager who starts will spend their first month bitching that it isn’t Jira.

mdaniel 6y ago

> AWS. ... apparently you need a chrome extension which adds a bunch of complicated options I don’t really understand just to be able to change roles I strongly agree with the rest of your characterization of the AWS console, but that one isn't true: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_roles_use_switch-role-console.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_roles_us... -- we use IAM Roles extensively at $DAYJOB and have not yet experienced anything that would require a Chrome extension to work around like you describe Their login screen, however, continues to drive everyone crazy since the URL you visit depends greatly on which account, and at what level, you wish to authenticate to the console. With any setup containing a non-trivial number of AWS accounts, it's just "oh, what account am I logged into" waiting to happen

aamoscodes 6y ago
My personal issue right now is that I have multiple accounts with MFA and there’s no easy way to differentiate them besides this generated account ID in the auth app. This means I have to create some type of mapping table between the ID and the account, or try to remember what’s available
- mdaniel 6y ago
  Every MFA app I've used has the ability to rename the entry, since the MFA key and the text that are displayed to the user are 100% unrelated to one another. And I recognize that you might not have the correct privilege level to carry it out, but AWS does allow you to create account aliases, which helpfully shows up in the console login URL
  - NomDePlum 6y ago
    Exactly what I was about to say. For reference account aliases are documented at: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sdk-for-javascript/v2/developer-guide/iam-examples-account-aliases.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sdk-for-javascript/v2/developer-...
- tsimionescu 6y ago

dasil003 6y ago

Disagree strongly on git. On the surface the syntax is ugly, but the data model is brilliant. Once you wrap your mind around what commits, heads and remotes are and learn to rebase you get an incredibly simple and fine-grained control. I never use stash because it's trivial to create a WIP commit and rebase later into the chunks I want to ship to permanent history. Git is like a chef's knife: extremely powerful tool that's dangerous in untrained hands.

millimeterman 6y ago
I think the best argument against git is to use mercurial for a few months. It has exactly the same functionality but a nicer and more streamlined interface, especially when it comes to branch management.
- nickpeterson 6y ago
  Yeah, when dvcs started becoming all the rage I tried mercurial first for some toy projects and really liked it. When I finally had to start using git I was absolutely baffled that it had won. I feel like git needs something that sits on top and does most the normal configuration and wraps the api. It reminds me of the problem with emacs, there is so much it’s just overwhelming to people.
  - smichel17 6y ago
    Technically this already exists; git commands are divided into two groups, plumbing and porcelain. Plumbing commands have stable interfaces and are intended for building alternative interfaces with; porcelain commands are intended to sit on top and be the actual user interface. They're what you're used to using.
- smichel17 6y ago
  Do you think mercurial has a better data model, or could git reach parity with just a better interface?
  - 6y ago

jamil7 6y ago

Don’t agree with you about git at all, I find it’s one of the few tools I work with that behaves expectedly and gets out of my way, if you want that workflow of stash, pull and reapply a stash why not make an alias for it?

modeless 6y ago
git config pull.rebase true git config rebase.autoStash true I think these should have been the defaults but they weren't implemented until later and it's hard to change defaults.
- zyberzero 6y ago
  TIL. Thank you for this!
- lordgrenville 6y ago
  Great to know about these. I still think the current default is better: for a new user, it might be scary for your uncommitted changes to "vanish" into a stash.
  - modeless 6y ago
    The stash is popped before the command finishes, so your changes don't appear to vanish. Unless there's a conflict while rebasing a prior commit. Actually I'm not sure if aborting the rebase at that point would pop the autostash, but it should.
    - lordgrenville 6y ago
      Got it. In that case I agree.
- hiyer 6y ago
  Setting rebase to true by default is not a good idea if you push your code to your dev branch regularly (rather than just committing).

StratusBen 6y ago

As for the AWS UI: I completely agree. I'm in the early access beta for a product being built that solves almost all of its problems and felt you might want to see it: https://vantage.sh/ https://vantage.sh/ Pretty sure they said they're launching in July so should be live soon.

schoolornot 6y ago
Unless this is a Chrome extension to redress the existing console there is an approximately 0% chance that I'm handing keys over or giving some unknown entity cross account access for a better UX.

schoolornot 6y ago

Jira with a dozen plugins is a death sentence for productivity. Oh Atlassian finally fixed that bug you reported a decade ago? It might have to wait a few months because none of your plugins are compatible with the new Jira release.

29athrowaway 6y ago

Enterprise software are like baby outfits you get as baby shower gifts. They are cute, but they have lots of buttons or they have some decoration that makes them hard to wash, making them impractical to use. While no parent would buy these, every parent has them, because someone else made the decision to buy them.

dnautics 6y ago
original source (AFICT): https://twitter.com/random_walker/status/1182635589604171776 https://twitter.com/random_walker/status/1182635589604171776
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  Yes! And also the experience of a recent baby shower.

blocked_again 6y ago

> feels and looks like someone made it in a rush with jQuery and Bootstrap years ago. Unnecessary dig at Bootstrap and jQuery. There are plenty of websites with great UI built using bootstrap. I don't understand how using jQuery has anything to do with the UI though. It's just a wrapper around JavaScript.

edoceo 6y ago
It's just using name brands for describing legacy-jank-by-noobs - not really a dig at those specific tools
- lloydatkinson 6y ago
  Fully this and I think they knew this as well but couldn’t resist pretending to be offended. There’s always one.
lloydatkinson 6y ago
Ok boomer

kevsim 6y ago

Fully agree on Jira. Disliked it enough to start a company to compete with it [0]. Also agree on AWS. Their UI is so terrible and confusing that it makes writing CloudFormation yaml files feel alright in comparison. Been using GCP lately and the UI is somewhat better though still confusing and weird at times. 0: https://kitemaker.co https://kitemaker.co

fredfjohnsen 6y ago
Neat. You made Trello.
- dean177 6y ago
  That app looks considerably more powerful that trello. Why so dismissive?
  - _tbyy 6y ago
    If you haven't noticed the chorus of trashing Jira for the sake trashing Jira in this forum you aren't reading it. It borders on the hysterical. A large part of this crowd believes they have an objective handle on cognitive bias yet most of the Jira commentary seems to come from the subjective experiences of developers who simply don't like having their work organized or fixing bugs. Jira is the most extensible, best platform of its type for workflow management & I would argue (without at all being linked to Atlassian in any way other way than having seen it succeed in numerous disparate use cases) that bad experiences with it are the direct result of not having any idea how to use or configure it correctly to model the work being done.
    - keeganpoppen 6y ago
      i am completely fascinated by this response. it is literally so dense with self-parody and hacker-news-ness that any attempt to quote it, analyze, refute, or satirize it in any way would only dilute the message.
      - 6y ago

mytailorisrich 6y ago

> I recently started using Gitkraken which allows you to pull changes WITHOUT needing to commit locally first because it uses stashes. It basically does the same option. Why can’t git be smart like that? This is not being smart, this is trying to be too clever for one's own good. Git does what it does because it wants you to know what might happen and to decide explicitly. If I do a 'git pull' without remembering that I was doing something and that just goes through and stash my changes automatically then I have lost the exact state I was working in and I need to work to recover it. Now, on the other hand if git stops and tell me that I have changes pending then I can think and decide. It only takes a few seconds. Trying to automate too much can be a false economy.

lloydatkinson 6y ago
Ok I agree that yes you might be worried about current state but generally that’s not something I ever experience whether that’s a solo repo or a team repo. Making some basically fake WIP commit just to keep in sync with the changes is ridiculous to me.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

nolroz 6y ago

I used to think I hated Jira until I had to use WorkFront. God awful.

0xJRS 6y ago
We switched from Jira to Rally about a year ago. Our company just did a survey about which tool they'd rather use and Jira won by over 95%. We actually joked about having a party for using Jira.
- adwww 6y ago
  Jira is a pain, but at least it's a known pain and a semi useful skill you can take with you when you leave that company.

hocuspocus 6y ago

I can say many things about BitBucket but it isn't slow. In fact it's significantly more reactive than GitHub and GitLab in my experience. Also your posts are hard to read if you systematically writes it's when you mean its.

theknarf 6y ago

I love it. A list where I disagree on everything you listed up. Then again, I understand where you're coming from, I simply don't agree.

etaioinshrdlu 6y ago

Interesting perspective about AWS. I like it. It is boring and functional. It’s not pretty but it doesn’t need to be. If anything I wish they would just change it even less than they do. It does have its buggy areas though, which could be a lot better.

etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
Another thought, I think I like it for the same reasons many here like Windows 2000...

BusterStatus 6y ago

Atlassian does not seem to have an interest in listening to their users. My workflow would be so much better if they implemented browser or desktop notifications, but they only support email or extensions/add-ons if you self-host. Our company uses cloud though, so despite all the countless threads asking for native functionality, they insist it is not important for users.

zmmmmm 6y ago
Like every business focused company that got large enough, they stopped making it for the users ages ago and now make it for the influencers in the middle management chain and above that decide on IT purchase decisions. And most of that is about putting CYA far above usability.
goatinaboat 6y ago
Atlassian does not seem to have an interest in listening to their users. But they do. Their users are project managers. The genius of Atlassian is how they’ve managed to convince so many programmers that it’s for them. It never was!

nateroling 6y ago

What’s wrong with Confluence? We have a recently-acquired team at work that uses it for everything, and loves it. I’ve used it a bit, and I think it looks awesome, and the pricing is super reasonable. Confluence looks better than everything else I’ve tried/used as a doc platform: Notion, Nuclino, Coda, Sharepoint, OneNote, Azure DevOps wiki, Microsoft Teams wiki...

adwww 6y ago
It doesn't help that the Markdown flavour is not standard, and is different again from most other Atlassian products.
- mr_toad 6y ago
  And you can only use it to compose and not edit.
tetraca 6y ago
My experience with confluence is that it just becomes a landfill of articles that are never read or cared about after 1-2 days they're created.
- nateroling 6y ago
  Any suggestions for platforms that help fight against that tendency?
  - Trias11 6y ago
    Robust search. Sorry - not the platform, but capability.
- EdwardDiego 6y ago
  Confluence is where documentation goes to die. And then rot.
thakoppno 6y ago
the one confluence thing that gets me is that when editing, it intercepts the command + 1 keypresses when im trying to switch tabs. instead, it just makes my current line h1.

andrei_says_ 6y ago

I’m not by any means an advanced git user but find it to be well-designed and elegant. And, being constantly refined.

Ozzie_osman 6y ago

Agree 100% with everything except for Linux and Git.

jerzyt 6y ago

You are so right about Atlassian tools. I cannot stand Jira. Very often, it's easier and faster to fix a bug, then to update the status in Jira. It's clutterware.

cben 6y ago
When we were forced to start use Jira a year ago it was kinda maybe acceptable, but every week someone in the organization adds a new custom field to issues, so it's growing scarier than bugzilla...
mhermher 6y ago
Why is JIRA so slow?
- timw4mail 6y ago
  Because it's a SPA trying to make 200 requests to get a ticket...and I'm barely exaggerating.
  - mikeyjk 6y ago
    JIRA is not doing the SPA cause any favours :P. My rage builds even just trying to use the search bar on JIRA. Keys don't get captured and get registered as page hot keys, or some keys are registered and others aren't. Crazy, just give me a dumb static search bar if you're not going to make life better. /Rant
  - Illniyar 6y ago
    JIRA was not always an SPA and it was still slow back when it was multi page.
- jordwest 6y ago
  My understanding is that JIRA was originally built as an on-premises solution, so request latency wasn't an issue. Then they moved everything to a cloud hosted solution, but the assumption of requests being effectively zero latency was still built-in, so now firing hundreds of requests with high latency makes everything feel super sluggish. I'm working on my own issue tracker [0] that stores everything locally, which means no network latency. Eventually I'd like to build a sync backend for it so you can share it with a team, but for now everything runs locally. [0] https://twigtask.com/ https://twigtask.com/

1ris 6y ago

I could not disagree more with Atlassian. They are among the best software i have ever used. Especially bitbucket is superb. Confluence is by far the best wiki I have ever used. Jira is 10x better than any alternative I'm aware of.

xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
That doesn't mean the tools are not terrible, which they undoubtedly are.
- 1ris 6y ago
  No, it does mean exactly this for me. For me they are not only undoubtedly great, but among the best software i have ever used. But then again, I also love git. Maybe we have different ideas how software should and shouldn't be. /edit: For clarity: Microsoft Office and SAP are how I think enterprise software should not be. And Atlassian is kind of the opposite.
kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
Bitbucket is an acquisition that was decent before the takeover. Jira: How hard can we make it to manage bugs? Jama: How hard can we make it to navigate the document tree?
rustybolt 6y ago
I think Confluence and Bitbucket work well enough. I hate Jira with a passion though.

SN76477 6y ago

My company wanted me and the rest of the marketing team on Jira. Immediately I was like wtf is this. We were back on Trello after just a few weeks.

chrisfrantz 6y ago
Yeah don’t let that happen. Same thing was tried with me a few years ago and I noped out quickly. Notion is great for marketing teams though.
- SN76477 6y ago
  I cannot get with Notion. It is a jack of all trades master of none. It dives me crazy just trying to organize things and link it all together, it is more work than it is worth at this time. Maybe the API will change that.
  - chrisfrantz 6y ago
    If it’s for marketing and you need a hand setting it up, shoot me an email through my profile and I’d be happy to share an overview of setups I’ve used. It took me a bit for it to click also, but now that it has I can’t imagine using any other tool for our marketing team.

nwatson 6y ago

Hmm, I think (Atlassian) Confluence is quite awesome. While you can still replicate the mess you'd naturally have in Google-Docs or OneNote or other places, at least with Confluence if you have a coherent vision for how your organize your information you can create a very useful body of work. I've never seen a Google-Docs, OneNote, SharePoint, or other unstructured-info solution that doesn't devolve into turds-in-gelatin. I'll add as well (Atlassian) SourceTree (git UI). I don't want to be a git jockey and I can do 90% of what I need in the SourceTree UI -- it's saved me tons of time, and I especially like the chunk-stage/unstage/reset functionality (you can stage/unstage/undo fragments of files in the UI) -- this feature alone is gold. SourceTree performance has improved greatly. I only wish there were a Linux version, but fortunately I do most development on macOS. EDIT: SourceTree

nemothekid 6y ago
The bar for Confluence isn't Google Docs or OneNote. It's Notion or Coda. After using Notion I can't go back to Confluence, for the same reason I can't go back to any Atlassian product - it's way too slow and the UX is too convoluted.
- nateroling 6y ago
  Two things bother me about Notion as a documentation platform: no “plain” tables, and the potential for infinite unnecessary complexity with its databases. I love notion, but as a company-scale doc platform I don’t think it’s there yet.
monkpit 6y ago
> (you can stage/unstage/undo fragments of files in the UI) To be fair, this has nothing to do with SourceTree. You can do this with any git tool, since it’s a feature of git.
johnwalkr 6y ago
No matter what I’ve tried, nothing beats google docs for me (in a mixed discipline work environment). It has the familiarity of a folder structure, good collaboration features and version history that works well for non technical users. It works well enough that few users fall back on v2_final-edit naming nonsense. Other tools have a slight edge for organizing information, but no good way to keep both files and Documents together. Which means people use files locally and don’t keep them up to date on the system. It had 3 pain points for me that are resolved recently. First, they got rid of the desktop clients so users can’t move stuff to their desktop without understanding this is removing files for others. Second, team drives resolve the mess that was shared folders. Third, it can now edit office documents directly, avoiding the confusion of google doc copies appearing. I use confluence a lot and I never trust that files on it are up to date. It doesn’t quite have enough features to make “native” documents, so it ends up with a lot of content stored as attachments, which inevitably get updated and passed around by email. It’s not convenient for storing files so all of the miscellaneous small files never make it there. If you use a lot of addins, it becomes usable to make documents but since it’s atrocious at outputting files, eventually a final version of something needs to be edited in word and now it’s even worse, you have what looks like an up to date document but the latest version is a word file, which is either hidden as an attachment or not even uploaded. I can see it working well in a team of only software engineers, however.

arein2 6y ago

The author asked for the worst software. However you listed Atlassian, which is really nice (Try alternatives like CA Rally which is horrible) Git, Linux which are gifts from god Docker, which helped containers become mainstream and enabled the nice infrastructure we can have today Facepalm, I sometimes forget such people exist

samcodes 6y ago
I don’t understand how someone can say “this is the worst software I use daily” and then you say “you are wrong.” Maybe you use worse software than them? Also, you seem to implicitly default to comparing each piece of software to others in it's class; you’re grading on a curve. The parent comment is saying “of all software, these are the worst”, and you are saying “but other PM/VC/OS software is worse” which is different. For example, git is the best version control software; it is also a disaster of a UX. Your appraisal of Docker is also too generous, I honestly can’t tell if it’s sarcasm
- arein2 6y ago
  When you don’t know what to say, better say nothing or I don’t know. Instead it proceeds to list the best software in class used by the developers. It just sounds stupid to me. Regarding Docker, I have this opinion because Docker was the trend for a few years, at every conference there was a hipster making a presentation about docker. So I think Docker made containers the cool topic and a lot of people started using containers because of that. And because a lot of people used it, new services/software started appearing around it. Yes, Docker uses the existing kernel apis for containerization, but the value it added was publicity, ease of use and adoption for containers, not the core features
- lloydatkinson 6y ago
  What did I miss? It was deleted
  - arein2 6y ago
    Someone listed confluence, jira, linux, git, docker as the worst software he worked with

etimberg 6y ago

Jira is such a pain to work with. For example, there seem to be two different ways to create a new issue. If you get to the one that uses a modal, the text input is in Textile format. Whereas the other page uses Markdown. It's insane that anyone thought that was a good idea

lstamour 6y ago
They’re apparently trying to switch from using something like confluence markup to using the markdown that just about everyone expects now... https://support.atlassian.com/jira-core-cloud/docs/markdown-and-keyboard-shortcuts/ https://support.atlassian.com/jira-core-cloud/docs/markdown-... But like everything Jira, they can never seem to find the energy to redo everything all at once, so they do it one screen or one section at a time instead... reminds me of how Office apps never improve all at the same time, just a bit at a time... in one app... if you’re running the Cloud version...
- loopz 6y ago
  It's what passes for Agile these days, ie. push half-cooked changes upon your users.
johnwalkr 6y ago
Is that what it is? I thought it was our own misconfiguration because it’s so hard to configure screens / easy to misconfigure them.
- etimberg 6y ago
  I think so, I haven't seen a way to configure it and it seems to happen by default in new projects

FridgeSeal 6y ago

> AWS... It is literally years behind Azure. I’m going to have to disagree with you here, AWS has some quirks, but the UI is being actively worked on and improved but Azure is an outright dumpster fire. Who thought scrolling sideways was a great idea? Why does the x close _everything_ and take you back to the dashboard and not just close the current pane? Why is everything about permissions and auth so hard to find?

mekster 6y ago
Who likes Azure interface? It's Windows 95 on the web. Unless you know how to navigate having remembered all the maze structure with years of operation, I can't for the sake find what costed what in the last month. UI is a total joke. It's like a machine built it literally just listing everything instead of by a human mind.
- dynamite-ready 6y ago
  It's not just the UI either, have you seen the REST API for Azure Blob Storage? It's Kafkaesque. And Cosmos DB? 'Request Units'? W. T. F.
  - FridgeSeal 6y ago
    Oh god their units! Provisioning disks comes with the caveat that on AKS, Kubernetes sees things one way, but Azure bills you in some bizarre, Azure specific unit of disk space and speed and then there’s whatever the hell goes on with the pricing / units on the SQL Server instances...
    - mr_gibbins 6y ago
      Ah, you'd be talking about DTUs! Those are fun. Blended measures of CPU, IO and some other Magic(TM) factor. Impossible to predict how your workload maps to DTUs until you try it and see.
vladvasiliu 6y ago

chx 6y ago

The git safety net against accidental resets is at https://gist.github.com/chx/3a694c2a077451e3d446f85546bb9278 https://gist.github.com/chx/3a694c2a077451e3d446f85546bb9278

slewis 6y ago

It's fair to call out Atlassian & Jira here. But I want to give them some credit. They recently rolled out a Jira change that was a huge step in the right direction (navbar at the top that can take you directly to projects and commonly used filters, among other things). It is a HUGE improvement. So it seems they may have finally figured out how to listen and improve UX. This is no small task for software that's used by so many different orgs for as many different purposes. But really what holds it back still is sluggishness. I'd take a few extra clicks in exchange for instantaneous responses to each click.

grumple 6y ago

Totally agree with Atlassian/AWS. Two senior devs should not have to pour over dozens of pages of documentation to figure out how to add a role to a user using SAML. Git and Linux are great though. Git is well understood and, if you don't do bad things in the first place, easy to use. It's explicit. Linux itself works great and is straightforward. Docker is hit or miss for me.

potta_coffee 6y ago
I feel your pain on the AWS SAML config. Actually anything with Cognito is this way too, circular documentation links that never actually lead you to your destination. It's like being in a labyrinth.

mtm7 6y ago

Glad to hear someone feels the same way about Git. I understand why some people love it, but I think it’s overly complex for most workflows.

lloydatkinson 6y ago
Fully agreed. My comment about how it doesn’t stash by default for example. Gitkraken seems to do the same default.
thewebcount 6y ago
Yeah, I've used a lot of different version control systems (RCS, CVS, SourceSafe, Perforce, svn, git), and by far the most confusing and infuriating is git with it's made-up words, bizarre naming, and the extra work it makes you do. Terrible to use. It does the thing it was designed to do, but good luck not screwing up because of its byzantine commands.

miguelmota 6y ago

At first I found it hard to use AWS because some services are a combination of other services and it was confusing but after dedicating time to learning what each service does then everything just clicked. Obviously the UX is still terrible for beginners because there’s a lot of assumptions but I found it to be pretty manageable after learning the fundamentals of AWS.

kamaal 6y ago

>>and slow Enterprise Atlassian is so slow, I have to often click a link, and go do something else and come back. Sometimes I even forget why I even clicked on a Jira link, having lost the thought trail.

saurik 6y ago

You aren't really supposed to be using the AWS Console... the whole point of AWS is automation, not bespoke one-off configuration via a GUI: when they launched it it didn't even have a UI, and the command line tooling was more of a demo set of wrappers for the API to help you debug calls and do some simple shell script automation.

mekster 6y ago
And you think that's how the majority of the users use it? It needs decent UI. I'll never consider using Azure if the choice is on me because... crazy UI.

zamalek 6y ago

> Atlassian [...] Git Try TFS (especially TFSVC) for a few hours. At least Atlassian fails at attempts to write software for developers/engineers. TFS is written for managers: to hell with your productivity.

cel1ne 6y ago

If you have a mac, look into GitUp. It's a great git-client and it creates a timelined snapshot-backup after every action, so you can undo whatever you did.

dmacedo 6y ago
Haven't checked it out yet, but is that just git reflog with extra steps?
tandr 6y ago
I tried GitUp, but I found Fork (https://fork.dev/home https://fork.dev/home) to be user friendly (IMHO, YMMV)

hijef 6y ago

I first read Atlassian and could potentially get on board (they have made tons of QoL changes, which I love and actually like. Their API still isn't that great, though). And same with AWS. At first it's confusing for sure. A lot of their offerings are wrappers around OSS that is much more intuitive. But comparatively to Azure and GCF, they're all confusing at first. But then I read git, Docker, and Linux. Now I'm concerned about your approach to any of these tools. For example Linux. There is _a lot_ of documentation out there. Man pages and arch Linux wiki just to name two that have a massive knowledge base. Git. I mean holy smokes, I'm going to assume you've never used any other VCS because everything else before it was hell on earth (in my opinion, people have things to say about this). I would focus on learning some git commands and I think you'll really like it. Going straight into a GUI you might be confused when you have to fix a problem via CLI when GUI messes it up. Docker - yeah, I see your point. It's not as apparent when you're trying to pull different architecture images. Kind of a shame. Maybe Rust WASM/WASI will replace it one day (kind of joking here).

dirkt 6y ago
I love git, but the command-line interface feels like it was grown over some time (which it was). It's just very ad-hoc in what commands are used to accomplish something. The underlying architecture of git is awesome, but even if I know exactly what I want to do based on my understanding on the architecture, it's not obvious which command and which switches to use to achieve this. And I use the command-line all day, and I am good at remembering switches. But still, for git I've written myself a list on what combinations to what, and when I need to do something more exotic, I look it up in that list. A more consistent CLI would allow me to do what I want without lookup.
- lloydatkinson 6y ago
  This is exactly what I meant, but I guess people were more interested in ad-hominem attacks because I questioned their favourite tools. I also have a list of magic combinations that I know do the thing I need. But I don’t really use them now because I use a GUI.
lloydatkinson 6y ago

kyriakos 6y ago

You can't mention UX in Atlasssian without mentioning bamboo. It's the pinnacle of random placed ui elements. It's faster to navigate by remembering URLs and typing in the browser address bar

mekster 6y ago

> Linux. It’s great, but it’s so easy to run into configuration problems or poor documentation. Linux? Are you serious? You mean some app that you're using on top of Linux. Can't believe you dismiss one of the best open source project with a few baseless lines.

lloydatkinson 6y ago
I can’t believe you dismissed my argument in a few baseless lines either.

rpadovani 6y ago

Shameless chiming in about AWS: I am working on a alternative web console for AWS, https://daintree.app https://daintree.app, to have a better UX. It's still in its early days, so not many resources are supported, but I work over it every weekend. It has multi region support (so you can have a fast overview without changing page), fast role switching, it's completely client side (so you don't have to share your credentials with a third-party) and of course it's opensource: https://github.com/rpadovani/daintree https://github.com/rpadovani/daintree

tjpnz 6y ago

Confluence is trash. It's slow, buggy, has a terrible UI which is always being messed with (or in Atlassian speak: "improved") and is constantly finding new ways to be unhelpful. Example: if you're trying open a template you don't have access to there's no way of requesting access to it. Confluence instead tells you to ask the person who created it to grant you access. Who?

touristtam 6y ago

Anything Atlassian is often better than anything I have tried in a corporate environment, including MSFT pile of dog poo. It might be slow as a dead dog, ugly as hell, and cumbersome to configure, but it just somehow works. I still don't like it and rate it poorly every time the feedback box comes up, but you never know how good you have it until you have to use something worse. As for Git, try to go back to SVN ....

Aperocky 6y ago

> AWS. It’s UI is honestly baffling Haha I used to have the same thought before I joined. But I've since understood that AWS is a set of APIs which is the default interface and everything is able to be called programmatically - the UI only tracks the API. It's not the default mode of use nor is it meant to be.

potta_coffee 6y ago
Accurate. 95% of my AWS usage is over APIs / SDK now so I don't mind the UI so much.

jmb12686 6y ago

Docker most definitely has ARM and multi-architecture support. That is, assuming the particular image you are attempting to pull has been published using the Manifest V2 spec and has ARM images published. The issue you mention is an issue with the image publisher/maintainer not Docker itself. I maintain a number of Docker images that have multiarch support (as seen in the Tags view on DockerHub: https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/socat/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/socat/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/unifi https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/unifi https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/elasticsearch/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/elasticsearch/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/kibana/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/kibana/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/filebeat/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/filebeat/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/cadvisor/ https://hub.docker.com/r/jmb12686/cadvisor/

lloydatkinson 6y ago
Yeah you are right but I find so many images that aren’t published correctly