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Quibi reportedly lost 90 percent of early users after their free trials expired

198 points by elorant 6y ago

jariel 6y ago
? !0% is a pretty good conversion rate though. That's a positive number. If they had designed their business around 'the next 2 years' and not 'everyone will buy all of it right away' well then maybe they stood a chance.
creaghpatr 6y ago
>According to the firm’s new report on Quibi’s early growth, the short-form video platform signed up about 910,000 users in its first few days back in April. Of those users, only about 72,000 stuck around after the three-month free trial, indicating the app had about an 8 percent conversion rate. I fully expect Quibi to crash and burn under the weight of the content costs among other things, but is an 8% conversion rate bad for converting from free to paid? What's the appropriate benchmark for this kind of thing?
- mindvirus 6y ago
  Especially given that Disney managed 11% conversion with their awesome catalog and brand recongition. It seems 8% isn't so bad.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Macha 6y ago
    And Disney+ trials do roll over into subscriptions without user action which is mentioned as a factor elsewhere in this thread.
  - kingkawn 6y ago
    But they got 11% of millions more people, and have subsequently signed up tens of millions more
  - wutbrodo 6y ago
    That brand recognition and catalog would also increase the denominator of people signing up for the trial though. It's not clear to me how these two effects would net out.
- macspoofing 6y ago
  >but is an 8% conversion rate bad for converting from free to paid? It may be if they based their financials (revenue, debt, and investment) on higher numbers. And I agree, it seemed obvious that this was going to crash and burn very quickly.
- crazygringo 6y ago
  Exact benchmarks are going to vary per product, but yeah it's bad. For free trials where you don't provide billing info in advance (e.g. a lot of software 30-day trials) 8% would be a great rate. Because the default do-nothing action is nothing. But for subscription services where you do provide billing info in advance, 8% retention is pretty terrible. If 92% of people are taking the effort to cancel, when the default is to let the subscription charge... it's definitely not great. (I'm assuming Quibi required billing info in advance, like pretty much every other subscription content service does.)
  - sulam 6y ago
    The largest cohort with these premium services take the free trial and then immediately cancel. Then you have to earn them back.
    - S33V 6y ago
      Do you have a source with that? Based off of the majority of my family members it seems like that would be the opposite. I wouldn't be surprised that there's a correlation between tech-savvy individuals and those who cancel straight to subscription trials right away.
      - sulam 6y ago
        I work for a company with a premium service, and we have a number of employees who have worked on other premium services. It’s definitely true in the aggregate. * Worth noting, since you mention tech savvy individuals, that these are not tech savvy services (although buying a premium service from an app on your phone probably immediately skews you somewhat tech savvy).
        S33V 6y ago
        Interesting, thanks!
- philistine 6y ago
  I’d be shocked to hear that only 8% of people convert with Netflix for example. Or Disney+ or any of the streaming services.
  - griffinkelly 6y ago
    Do those companies publish their numbers since they're public?
- sulam 6y ago
  Around twice that would be typical for content service trials.
  - mynegation 6y ago
    But who has that kind of conversion rate? Disney with all its weight managed to convert not much more than that - percentage wise, although much more in absolute terms and article make that point. Are there any data points from Netflix, Hulu, Spotify. Amazon Prime is a bit of a different beast, as it is a bundle.
    - sulam 6y ago
      Spotify, Netflix. Also something like Tinder’s premium service is in the teens.
- wutbrodo 6y ago
  For a very rough baseline: > The industry conversion rate from a free trial to a paid subscription hovers below 33 percent https://www.vulture.com/2020/07/is-anyone-watching-quibi.html https://www.vulture.com/2020/07/is-anyone-watching-quibi.htm...
hello_friendos 6y ago
I loved Quibi's short form dramatic and comedic content. Shape of Pasta is a cooking show about rare pasta types -- sometimes being made by only a single person in a village! Run This City - A documentary about Jasiel Correia, the youngest mayor in Massachusetts who get's caught in numerous controversies. Nightgowns follows Drag Queen Sasha Velour's Nightgowns tour, this program worked particularly well on the service. There are a couple more shows that I live Dishmantled, Let's Roll, Singled Out. The issue is that these shows had 7 - 10 episodes each. Most of Quibi's content is daily news programming. It honestly felt similar to the daily news shows I can get on Snapchat for free. If Quibi had more shows like the non-daily news shows I think I would have stayed longer, but Quibi's content is mostly daily news.
- 1123581321 6y ago
  I felt similarly. I have enjoyed most of their scripted comedy and drama, but I was surprised that they ended after two weeks (10 episodes.) I was expecting to be drawn into some of these shows over months and be hooked on several stories so I’d continue my trial. Releasing only ~90 minutes of programming per title, and not having many new titles, made it easy to let my trial expire.
- Cactus2018 6y ago
  > the youngest mayor in Massachusetts who get's caught in numerous controversies To put it mildly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasiel_Correia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasiel_Correia
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
  I mean, I like pasta as much as the next guy, but if their best show is "a cooking show about rare pasta types", I'm not in the least surprised they're having trouble getting people to pay for this.
  - lnanek2 6y ago
    I actually know a lot of asian women who like watching what's essentially food tourism TV series and even recommend them to me. Food is definitely a genre that has fans. Besides big fancy ones that go to new cities and regions every episode, there's also smaller fun ones like how the Japanese have a live action and cartoon version of a guy who goes to a different food shop every episode.
_fat_santa 6y ago
Quibi seems to be trying to convert a users who would normally kill 5-10 minutes on Snapchat or Instagram into killing that same time on their platform. The problem is that this user pool is perfectly content killing thier 5-10 minutes on Snapchat or Instagram and convincing them that they actually need the "Snapchat or Netflix" is going to be very hard, especially when they charge a subscription. If I am only willing to kill 5-10 minutes on my phone, my investment in whatever it is ill be killing time on is very low. So I suspect it's going to be very difficult to convince these users to pay a monthly fee for a service when Snapchat offers a similar level of gratification for free.
ObsoleteNerd 6y ago
8% is not a terrible conversion rate at all, and they’ve only just started. I’m not a Quibi user and have no vested interest in them either way but this is the third different article I’ve seen in the last week or 2 talking about how terrible they’re doing and now they’re about to crash and burn, because of an 8% conversion? Comparing them to Disney is ridiculous too, it’s Disney! With multiple generations obsessed with their library and people literally counting down the days until their launch, they got a 10% conversion... but 8% is horrible and the end of Quibi?
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  On the other hand, Disney has mountains of cash behind them while Quibi is VC-funded and VCs typically want to see results to decide whether to continue or cut their losses. Disney can get away with a terrible conversion rate forever while a startup can run out of funding very quickly.
  - formercoder 6y ago
    It’s crazy that a VC would fund Quibi. Producing that content is expensive and their margins will never justify that type of equity funding.
- duxup 6y ago
  Did the user have to provide a credit card, are a lot of these 8% maybe just folks who forgot to unsubscribe? I feel like this conversion rate thing really "depends".
  - formercoder 6y ago
    Probably in app subscription in the future agreement
  - FalconSensei 6y ago
    I saw a few tweets saying 'remember to cancel Quibi', so I guess it's auto renew by default? Most streaming services are like this
rydre 6y ago
I doubt the retention rate. It's probably much higher then 10%.
CedarMills 6y ago
Quibi has the problem that other platforms like it have: thinking celebrities are the right way to entice people. Luminary Podcasts has the same issue. Majority of gen Z / millennial folks that I know, don't care about Trevor Noah or any of the late night comedians. They care more about famous YouTubers and TikTok stars.
- fullshark 6y ago
  This seems to be Masterclass's strategy as well
- kgermino 6y ago
  > They care more about famous YouTubers and TikTok stars. It sounds like they’re still interested in celebrities, it’s just a different set of people than older generations expect. I wonder, is that gap new or just part of the cycles of life?
  - wutbrodo 6y ago
    I'd think that the jump in breadth would qualify as a categorical difference instead of just one in degree. Distribution has gotten more efficient before, as with cable TV or the birth of the modern music industry, but the low stakes and nonexistent barrier to entry of being a YouTuber is a whole new kind of flux in celebrities. This doesn't suggest that no youtubers have staying power: Pewdiepie has been around for a while and has a massive subscriber count. But he is literally the best of the best, and my point is just that the staying power of a celeb is now more fluid all up and down the distribution of popularity.
  - xemdetia 6y ago
    In my personal observations of the matter it is more that it's just a different kind of celebrity than their original draw. Nobody earnestly cares if some hollywood star becomes a professional golfer, singer, or race car driver. They have to build themselves up anew to this new audience who is selecting 'celebrity status' by a different set of rules and criteria. Now if someone in hollywood moves to another position within hollywood like actor to director hey are still closely related to the same rules of selection so they get a boost just from qualifying to what the audience is looking at. Given that this is where there is just a separate group of people that understands or learns the selection criteria for YouTube/Twitter/TikTok/Twitch whatever and can have more synergy transferring between these outlets. It makes sense that someone who in another setting is popular just seems to land flat when they are having to relearn a new way of presenting themselves and the old tools don't work. Even celebrities that start a YouTube channel that I at least followed in passing end up feeling terrible, and I don't think I've seen a hollywood grade external star stick with their YouTube content long enough to actually start learning what needs to change.
dpcan 6y ago
Quibi is like TikTok with celebrities that I have to pay for. I know the content is scripted, longer, and well-produced, but it seriously just feels like expensive TikTok, and I couldn't justify paying for it when the only content I wanted was Reno 911, which I finished watching during the trial. That could be the other problem. The trial is long enough to finish watching the one thing on Quibi you downloaded it to watch. The content is SO random that I can't imagine someone finds more than 1, maybe 2, things to watch that are to their liking.
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Hamuko 6y ago
I can't imagine Apple TV+ having any better conversion rate unless people just forget to cancel their subscriptions at the end of the trial. There's just so little content there and basically nothing that people talk about.
- kin 6y ago
  I got a year of Apple TV+ just for getting a new Apple device. If you cancel early, you cancel for good. I put a reminder on my calendar to cancel at the end of a trial. I have yet to even attempt to watch anything because of poor reviews and klout. I remember during the Apple TV+ announcement that Tim Cook was using phrases like "the best stories" and "the best content". I thought it was so arrogant.
  - bluthru 6y ago
    Apple is diluting their brand with this nonsense.
    - verisimilidude 6y ago
      I think there's a place for Apple to get this right. They have a music streaming service that makes sense. They're a major player in the podcast space. They've long sold digital music, TV, and movies. Apple has been in the content game since the early days of the iPod. A properly executed Apple TV+ could fit with their brand. But you're right, they're fucking up. To me, Apple's content tends to be way too safe. It's boring. (Or, at least it was boring when I saw it.) If I want straight-down-the-middle-of-American-culture-type content, I already have Disney+ and way too many other choices. If they want to grab my attention, they need to take some risks and/or find their niches. This is what I appreciate about the other major tech company with a me-too streaming service: Amazon. Prime Video is willing to take risks on weird genre stuff, and some of it is really good. I could never see Apple releasing something like Fleabag or The Boys. That perception is probably why Apple TV+ has been so forgettable. Boring has no place in Apple's branding.
      - 6y ago
bhouston 6y ago
Quibi always sort of seemed like it was going to fail hard.
poof_he_is_gone 6y ago
Their Princess Bride home movie is fantastic.
whoisjuan 6y ago
The problem with Quibi is thinking that they can charge for this content. People are not gonna pay for quick bite videos, even if they have a high production value. Why would anyone do that with such limited time? The problem of all these platforms is that they think they are creating a new market or expanding an existing one and they forget that people only have 24 hours a day to do things. If you create something like Quibi you're competing with Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, YouTube, Netflix, Xbox/PlayStation/Nintendo-Switch, Mobile Games and anything else that is trying to grab a slice of you leisure time. Why would I pay for this when I already pay for other options with more content and get a handful for free? Quibi is what you get when you think you know your customers but you really don't. It's the type of self-deluded product that is created in an echo chamber by rich people who believe their past success is a formula that can be reproduced at any scale as long as money is involved. The problem with that idea is that it values scale more than ingenuity. Doing short vertical videos with high production value and charging to watch them is almost an absolute zero in terms of innovation.
- rm445 6y ago
  There are difficulties in overcoming users' expectations and actually monetising, but it shouldn't be ruled out completely. Once people are using something as a major source of entertainment, some proportion of them are usually willing to pay for even mild improvements. An analogy might be free radio broadcasts (and web radio, and piracy) versus modern music streaming services. Make no mistake, short-form content can be a major entertainment source. Personally, I recently deleted Tiktok from my phone, more because of its power to eat up time when I ought to be sleeping than because of the recent privacy furore.
- pjc50 6y ago
  I dunno, doing short vertical videos with low production value was the huge innovation of TikTok? (Not counting its predecessor, Vine) But I accept that launching it as a paid service was extremely risky. Better to start with something free and attention-getting.
  - polytely 6y ago
mattjack 6y ago
A few others have mentioned that Quibi is not an interesting enough alternative timewasting app to Snapchat, Instagram, etc. I agree and I'm glad to see it fail for that reason; I want my attention span back and I'm trying to cut these things out of my life. I notice my well-being improves when I do. That's personal preference obviously, and people are free to spend their time how they want, but I think the loss of attention span is a culture-scale problem now and excising these companies from our lives is a necessary treatment. I hope Quibi folds permanently and we salt the earth where it stood.
- jlokier 6y ago
  It seems strange to me that you want Quibi to die so that you can get your attention span back. To cut these things out of your life. Can't you just... ignore it? Cut these things out of your life anyway? Live and let live?
  - mattjack 6y ago
    Like I said this is personal preference. I've never used it but I think it makes culture worse so I hope it goes under. I never know what people are going to like so maybe it will become the next TikTok instead, or someone will make a new Quibi that I also won't use or understand :)
lnanek2 6y ago
The free trial code was pretty poorly implemented. I remember I signed up, and it didn't let me watch immediately. By the time I verified email or whatever the heck they wanted and tried again, the trial had expired and so I never even got to try a single video...
dboshardy 6y ago
I acknowledge this is my cynicism mostly talking, but I get the impression that Quibi has switched to the "guilt the consumer into subscribing" marketing strategy given all the press about it (including interviews with executives).
throwawaysea 6y ago
I think a big problem might be marketing. I’ve not seen Quibi advertised anywhere. I don’t know anyone personally who has tried it. I only know a few who have even heard of it. Even if you consider the conversion rate good, I don’t think they’ve had many people at the top of their funnel.
- alkibiades 6y ago
  i’ve seen it all over twitter. with constants ads
- rchaud 6y ago
  They advertise constantly on Instagram
qwe098cube 6y ago
I never understood their pitch in first place. Why pay for quick bites when I get decent content (~10min) for free on youtube? Generally, I would assume people watch netflix/amazon/disney content for entertainment and expect their originals to be of the usual or slight longer duration. That's content to enjoy watching over a longer period of time. People like this format, hence binge watching is a thing. I can't see why people would rather watch a highly produced quick bite while waiting in line for a coffee instead of watching a new upload from a subscribed creator on youtube for like 10 minutes. There are plenty of famous youtubers upload almost daily, with daily/weekly views much higher than the total app downloads quibi has so far. And they don't have a ~2B$ war chest.
- evanelias 6y ago
  Verizon attempted a similar content/audience strategy to Quibi several years ago, with their content platform called go90 [1]. Their pitch centered around the lack of 15-20 minute video content with high production values, and the assumption that this type of content would be successful with millennials and commuters. They burned over $1B and it was a colossal failure -- apparently so forgettable that none of the coverage on Quibi even mentions it. One major difference: go90 was a free service, and it was even zero-rated for Verizon Wireless customers (i.e. didn't count against subscriber data caps). Yet it remained a failure across several attempted pivots before Verizon threw in the towel completely. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go90 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go90
  - TylerE 6y ago
    > the lack of 15-20 minute video content with high production values, What a truly bizarre tack if that's what they really though. A "30 minute" TV episode is actually about 20-21 minutes minus the ads, intro, and credits.
  - perardi 6y ago
    I remember seeing those ads on the CTA. And then promptly went back to either reading stuff in Instapaper, or listening to podcasts, or playing Pokémon Go if we were moving at a slow enough speed.
mtgp1000 6y ago
I hadn't heard of this service until just now but I worry that it is another volley against the consumer in the war on the attention span. It can't be good for individuals or our collective to consume all of our media in short, predigested clips (or posts, or comments). I genuinely believe that the average capacity for "long running" thoughts (and general idea complexity) is being eroded. All of our media seems to be
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TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
> Sensor Tower is a reputable analytics company known for reporting accurate estimates I see SensorTower quoted a lot for mobile analytics, but their methods are completely opaque AFAIK. For all I know, one can “buy” good analytics by giving them some money, in order to promote an app. Alternatively, nepotism could skew analytics: the CTO’s brother-in-law’s app gets higher usage and download ratings than a competitor. How can we trust that such companies are honest?
Elidrake24 6y ago
I really wanted to like Quibi. I enjoyed the Most Dangerous Game romp, I really loved the daily updates from the BBC, and overall the idea of content specifically made for ~10 minute sprints work perfectly for me. The rest of the content though... Pretty bad, at least to me. One daily show isn't enough to keep me around. Anyone know of a solid, ~15 minute daily news report similar to what the BBC was offering on Quibi? Preferably something with a worldwide scope. I'd happily pay a fraction of Quibi's monthly fee for just that show.
- marrone12 6y ago
  Reuters used to have a short form news update at https://reuters.tv https://reuters.tv but it seems like they shut it down earlier this year.
pkamb 6y ago
Where is the vertical video app that lets you watch your favorite YouTube/IG/Twitch-type “content creators” on your phone in the same easy/addictive format as Stories? That seems to be what people want, not network produced scripted tv made brief + vertical.
- umeshunni 6y ago
  > Where is the vertical video app that lets you watch your favorite YouTube/IG/Twitch-type “content creators” on your phone in the same easy/addictive format as Stories? I think you just described TikTok.
  - pkamb 6y ago
    Yeah, this kind of content/UI is definitely available on Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, and probably Facebook. YouTube and Twitch though seem to have some of the strongest "content creator" culture and are both still stuck in landscape videos and other sub-optimal phone UI.
cs702 6y ago
I'm not sure which one is more "impressive," between Wirecard and Quibi, as a mechanism for making around $2 billion disappear. On one hand, Wirecard at least maintained the illusion that the money had not been disappearing, for years and years. They fooled auditors, regulators, and investors all over the world, again and again. That takes major cojones. On the other hand, Quibi is managing to vaporize the money very quickly with Hollywood glamour and spectacle. If you're going to blow things up, there's something to be said for doing it with style. Peter Sellers would be proud of their unintentional "performance." At least Wirecard did it intentionally.
ogre_codes 6y ago
The conversion rate isn't the biggest problem. The big problem is their launch got so little momentum/ uptake to begin with and their platform has no presence. In spite of their high dollar Super Bowl commercial, nobody outside tech seems to know what they are or why they would subscribe to them. Having an unknown service is bad enough, but they have no base to grow from. Disney+ is Disney. Apple TV+ has Apple behind them and is able to offer a free year with every iPhone. HBO, CBS, MLB, and even Hulu have big, well known brands with known content. Everyone in streaming started with a base or with at least free content. It's not the 8% that's the issue here, it's the fact that they have fewer than a hundred thousand users and no momentum.
x87678r 6y ago
Quibi should be ad-supported, I can't see how else it could get popular. I look at the website and I can't even see any videos. I'd actually like a good alternative to Youtube, this could have been it.
- bmarquez 6y ago
  Quibi actually already has an ad-supported plan, you pay $4.99 a month and get a 4-15 second ad every time you watch a new episode. It's incredibly annoying when you have to watch ads every time you queue an episode to download for offline viewing.
RIMR 6y ago
Oh no, that reminds me that I need to cancel before I pay for another month. Truly terrible service. Amazed they got the funding they did.
jimbobimbo 6y ago
Is Disney's conversion rate and subscriber numbers a valid benchmark for startup's conversion rate and subscriber numbers though?
koiz 6y ago
Create bad content and no one will care.
JadoJodo 6y ago
Obviously this is anecdata but: I've not been drawn to Quibi at all because I've tried to be MORE purposeful in my entertainment choices ("I feel like watching that new Funny Movie tonight"), not less ("Eh, I've got 10-minutes until the dentist calls me in. Better fill that with a random thing on Quibi").
jyriand 6y ago
Never heard of this service. Seems like they have too much money at hand. When you have billions you start to think that every problem can be solved with money and that inhibits creative solutions. Instead of organic growth based on the value they can provide, they try to buy their way into the premium league.
jacquesm 6y ago
A ~10% conversion from free to paid is something quite a few companies would sign for on the spot. Depending on the industry you can see < 1% to < .1% and still be happy. All that matters is whether or not the customers that do convert stay long enough to make it worth your while. If 50% converts but they all cancel after month 1 that's a lot worse than if 10% converts and they stay for 30 years.
droningparrot 6y ago
I'm sure there's more to it than this, but I think that a bit of unfortunate timing may have contributed to Quibi's demise. This may have had a chance in the pre-lockdown world when everyone was rushing around, and had a few short moments of boredom in between. With most people no longer commuting and most forms of entertainment and recreation closed, a lot of people have fewer things competing for their time. I think many people are now spending their time on things that use up longer chunks of time: watching TV or movies, going outside, and hobbies.
bluedevil2k 6y ago
They went the wrong route with programming. Instead of top quality content with A/B list actors, they should have dumped out a lot of cheap reality show content. That stuff works well 10 minutes at a time on network TV (between commercials). Think Real World, Blind Date, Cribs. It’s cheap to make, appeals to the target market for Quibi, and would have required a LOT less funding at the beginning from the investors who now seem likely to lose all their money.
deeviant 6y ago
I have serious doubts as the viability of Quibi, mainly from my experience with sci-fi short-story compilations. Sure there have been some great short story compilations, but paradoxically, the better they are the worse they feel. As you just get invested in a great story/world only to have it end a short time later.
alkibiades 6y ago
you mean audiences didn’t flock to “gayme show”? did they try at all to make content they think people want rather than blindly just getting celebs on it?
rameezt123 6y ago
sensor tower is great for mobile app estimates but really falls flat on its face with streaming. first, downloads do not mean payment or usage. you can download an app long before you use it. second, as netflix confirmed years ago, 70%+ of sign-ups happen on TVs – probably even more during COVID – so app activity is not a meaningful lever of insights. https://www.vox.com/2018/3/7/17094610/netflix-70-percent-tv-viewing-statistics https://www.vox.com/2018/3/7/17094610/netflix-70-percent-tv-...

198 points by elorant 6y ago

? !0% is a pretty good conversion rate though. That's a positive number. If they had designed their business around 'the next 2 years' and not 'everyone will buy all of it right away' well then maybe they stood a chance.

creaghpatr 6y ago

>According to the firm’s new report on Quibi’s early growth, the short-form video platform signed up about 910,000 users in its first few days back in April. Of those users, only about 72,000 stuck around after the three-month free trial, indicating the app had about an 8 percent conversion rate. I fully expect Quibi to crash and burn under the weight of the content costs among other things, but is an 8% conversion rate bad for converting from free to paid? What's the appropriate benchmark for this kind of thing?

mindvirus 6y ago
Especially given that Disney managed 11% conversion with their awesome catalog and brand recongition. It seems 8% isn't so bad.
- deleted 6y ago
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- Macha 6y ago
  And Disney+ trials do roll over into subscriptions without user action which is mentioned as a factor elsewhere in this thread.
- kingkawn 6y ago
  But they got 11% of millions more people, and have subsequently signed up tens of millions more
- wutbrodo 6y ago
  That brand recognition and catalog would also increase the denominator of people signing up for the trial though. It's not clear to me how these two effects would net out.
macspoofing 6y ago
>but is an 8% conversion rate bad for converting from free to paid? It may be if they based their financials (revenue, debt, and investment) on higher numbers. And I agree, it seemed obvious that this was going to crash and burn very quickly.
crazygringo 6y ago
Exact benchmarks are going to vary per product, but yeah it's bad. For free trials where you don't provide billing info in advance (e.g. a lot of software 30-day trials) 8% would be a great rate. Because the default do-nothing action is nothing. But for subscription services where you do provide billing info in advance, 8% retention is pretty terrible. If 92% of people are taking the effort to cancel, when the default is to let the subscription charge... it's definitely not great. (I'm assuming Quibi required billing info in advance, like pretty much every other subscription content service does.)
- sulam 6y ago
  The largest cohort with these premium services take the free trial and then immediately cancel. Then you have to earn them back.
  - S33V 6y ago
    Do you have a source with that? Based off of the majority of my family members it seems like that would be the opposite. I wouldn't be surprised that there's a correlation between tech-savvy individuals and those who cancel straight to subscription trials right away.
    - sulam 6y ago
      I work for a company with a premium service, and we have a number of employees who have worked on other premium services. It’s definitely true in the aggregate. * Worth noting, since you mention tech savvy individuals, that these are not tech savvy services (although buying a premium service from an app on your phone probably immediately skews you somewhat tech savvy).
      - S33V 6y ago
        Interesting, thanks!
philistine 6y ago
I’d be shocked to hear that only 8% of people convert with Netflix for example. Or Disney+ or any of the streaming services.
- griffinkelly 6y ago
  Do those companies publish their numbers since they're public?
sulam 6y ago
Around twice that would be typical for content service trials.
- mynegation 6y ago
  But who has that kind of conversion rate? Disney with all its weight managed to convert not much more than that - percentage wise, although much more in absolute terms and article make that point. Are there any data points from Netflix, Hulu, Spotify. Amazon Prime is a bit of a different beast, as it is a bundle.
  - sulam 6y ago
    Spotify, Netflix. Also something like Tinder’s premium service is in the teens.
wutbrodo 6y ago
For a very rough baseline: > The industry conversion rate from a free trial to a paid subscription hovers below 33 percent https://www.vulture.com/2020/07/is-anyone-watching-quibi.html https://www.vulture.com/2020/07/is-anyone-watching-quibi.htm...

hello_friendos 6y ago

I loved Quibi's short form dramatic and comedic content. Shape of Pasta is a cooking show about rare pasta types -- sometimes being made by only a single person in a village! Run This City - A documentary about Jasiel Correia, the youngest mayor in Massachusetts who get's caught in numerous controversies. Nightgowns follows Drag Queen Sasha Velour's Nightgowns tour, this program worked particularly well on the service. There are a couple more shows that I live Dishmantled, Let's Roll, Singled Out. The issue is that these shows had 7 - 10 episodes each. Most of Quibi's content is daily news programming. It honestly felt similar to the daily news shows I can get on Snapchat for free. If Quibi had more shows like the non-daily news shows I think I would have stayed longer, but Quibi's content is mostly daily news.

1123581321 6y ago
I felt similarly. I have enjoyed most of their scripted comedy and drama, but I was surprised that they ended after two weeks (10 episodes.) I was expecting to be drawn into some of these shows over months and be hooked on several stories so I’d continue my trial. Releasing only ~90 minutes of programming per title, and not having many new titles, made it easy to let my trial expire.
Cactus2018 6y ago
> the youngest mayor in Massachusetts who get's caught in numerous controversies To put it mildly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasiel_Correia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasiel_Correia
9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
I mean, I like pasta as much as the next guy, but if their best show is "a cooking show about rare pasta types", I'm not in the least surprised they're having trouble getting people to pay for this.
- lnanek2 6y ago
  I actually know a lot of asian women who like watching what's essentially food tourism TV series and even recommend them to me. Food is definitely a genre that has fans. Besides big fancy ones that go to new cities and regions every episode, there's also smaller fun ones like how the Japanese have a live action and cartoon version of a guy who goes to a different food shop every episode.

_fat_santa 6y ago

Quibi seems to be trying to convert a users who would normally kill 5-10 minutes on Snapchat or Instagram into killing that same time on their platform. The problem is that this user pool is perfectly content killing thier 5-10 minutes on Snapchat or Instagram and convincing them that they actually need the "Snapchat or Netflix" is going to be very hard, especially when they charge a subscription. If I am only willing to kill 5-10 minutes on my phone, my investment in whatever it is ill be killing time on is very low. So I suspect it's going to be very difficult to convince these users to pay a monthly fee for a service when Snapchat offers a similar level of gratification for free.

ObsoleteNerd 6y ago

8% is not a terrible conversion rate at all, and they’ve only just started. I’m not a Quibi user and have no vested interest in them either way but this is the third different article I’ve seen in the last week or 2 talking about how terrible they’re doing and now they’re about to crash and burn, because of an 8% conversion? Comparing them to Disney is ridiculous too, it’s Disney! With multiple generations obsessed with their library and people literally counting down the days until their launch, they got a 10% conversion... but 8% is horrible and the end of Quibi?

Nextgrid 6y ago
On the other hand, Disney has mountains of cash behind them while Quibi is VC-funded and VCs typically want to see results to decide whether to continue or cut their losses. Disney can get away with a terrible conversion rate forever while a startup can run out of funding very quickly.
- formercoder 6y ago
  It’s crazy that a VC would fund Quibi. Producing that content is expensive and their margins will never justify that type of equity funding.
duxup 6y ago
Did the user have to provide a credit card, are a lot of these 8% maybe just folks who forgot to unsubscribe? I feel like this conversion rate thing really "depends".
- formercoder 6y ago
  Probably in app subscription in the future agreement
- FalconSensei 6y ago
  I saw a few tweets saying 'remember to cancel Quibi', so I guess it's auto renew by default? Most streaming services are like this

rydre 6y ago

I doubt the retention rate. It's probably much higher then 10%.

CedarMills 6y ago

Quibi has the problem that other platforms like it have: thinking celebrities are the right way to entice people. Luminary Podcasts has the same issue. Majority of gen Z / millennial folks that I know, don't care about Trevor Noah or any of the late night comedians. They care more about famous YouTubers and TikTok stars.

fullshark 6y ago
This seems to be Masterclass's strategy as well
kgermino 6y ago
> They care more about famous YouTubers and TikTok stars. It sounds like they’re still interested in celebrities, it’s just a different set of people than older generations expect. I wonder, is that gap new or just part of the cycles of life?
- wutbrodo 6y ago
  I'd think that the jump in breadth would qualify as a categorical difference instead of just one in degree. Distribution has gotten more efficient before, as with cable TV or the birth of the modern music industry, but the low stakes and nonexistent barrier to entry of being a YouTuber is a whole new kind of flux in celebrities. This doesn't suggest that no youtubers have staying power: Pewdiepie has been around for a while and has a massive subscriber count. But he is literally the best of the best, and my point is just that the staying power of a celeb is now more fluid all up and down the distribution of popularity.
- xemdetia 6y ago
  In my personal observations of the matter it is more that it's just a different kind of celebrity than their original draw. Nobody earnestly cares if some hollywood star becomes a professional golfer, singer, or race car driver. They have to build themselves up anew to this new audience who is selecting 'celebrity status' by a different set of rules and criteria. Now if someone in hollywood moves to another position within hollywood like actor to director hey are still closely related to the same rules of selection so they get a boost just from qualifying to what the audience is looking at. Given that this is where there is just a separate group of people that understands or learns the selection criteria for YouTube/Twitter/TikTok/Twitch whatever and can have more synergy transferring between these outlets. It makes sense that someone who in another setting is popular just seems to land flat when they are having to relearn a new way of presenting themselves and the old tools don't work. Even celebrities that start a YouTube channel that I at least followed in passing end up feeling terrible, and I don't think I've seen a hollywood grade external star stick with their YouTube content long enough to actually start learning what needs to change.

dpcan 6y ago

Quibi is like TikTok with celebrities that I have to pay for. I know the content is scripted, longer, and well-produced, but it seriously just feels like expensive TikTok, and I couldn't justify paying for it when the only content I wanted was Reno 911, which I finished watching during the trial. That could be the other problem. The trial is long enough to finish watching the one thing on Quibi you downloaded it to watch. The content is SO random that I can't imagine someone finds more than 1, maybe 2, things to watch that are to their liking.

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Hamuko 6y ago

I can't imagine Apple TV+ having any better conversion rate unless people just forget to cancel their subscriptions at the end of the trial. There's just so little content there and basically nothing that people talk about.

kin 6y ago
I got a year of Apple TV+ just for getting a new Apple device. If you cancel early, you cancel for good. I put a reminder on my calendar to cancel at the end of a trial. I have yet to even attempt to watch anything because of poor reviews and klout. I remember during the Apple TV+ announcement that Tim Cook was using phrases like "the best stories" and "the best content". I thought it was so arrogant.
- bluthru 6y ago
  Apple is diluting their brand with this nonsense.
  - verisimilidude 6y ago
    I think there's a place for Apple to get this right. They have a music streaming service that makes sense. They're a major player in the podcast space. They've long sold digital music, TV, and movies. Apple has been in the content game since the early days of the iPod. A properly executed Apple TV+ could fit with their brand. But you're right, they're fucking up. To me, Apple's content tends to be way too safe. It's boring. (Or, at least it was boring when I saw it.) If I want straight-down-the-middle-of-American-culture-type content, I already have Disney+ and way too many other choices. If they want to grab my attention, they need to take some risks and/or find their niches. This is what I appreciate about the other major tech company with a me-too streaming service: Amazon. Prime Video is willing to take risks on weird genre stuff, and some of it is really good. I could never see Apple releasing something like Fleabag or The Boys. That perception is probably why Apple TV+ has been so forgettable. Boring has no place in Apple's branding.
    - 6y ago

bhouston 6y ago

Quibi always sort of seemed like it was going to fail hard.

poof_he_is_gone 6y ago

Their Princess Bride home movie is fantastic.

whoisjuan 6y ago

The problem with Quibi is thinking that they can charge for this content. People are not gonna pay for quick bite videos, even if they have a high production value. Why would anyone do that with such limited time? The problem of all these platforms is that they think they are creating a new market or expanding an existing one and they forget that people only have 24 hours a day to do things. If you create something like Quibi you're competing with Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, YouTube, Netflix, Xbox/PlayStation/Nintendo-Switch, Mobile Games and anything else that is trying to grab a slice of you leisure time. Why would I pay for this when I already pay for other options with more content and get a handful for free? Quibi is what you get when you think you know your customers but you really don't. It's the type of self-deluded product that is created in an echo chamber by rich people who believe their past success is a formula that can be reproduced at any scale as long as money is involved. The problem with that idea is that it values scale more than ingenuity. Doing short vertical videos with high production value and charging to watch them is almost an absolute zero in terms of innovation.

rm445 6y ago
There are difficulties in overcoming users' expectations and actually monetising, but it shouldn't be ruled out completely. Once people are using something as a major source of entertainment, some proportion of them are usually willing to pay for even mild improvements. An analogy might be free radio broadcasts (and web radio, and piracy) versus modern music streaming services. Make no mistake, short-form content can be a major entertainment source. Personally, I recently deleted Tiktok from my phone, more because of its power to eat up time when I ought to be sleeping than because of the recent privacy furore.
pjc50 6y ago
I dunno, doing short vertical videos with low production value was the huge innovation of TikTok? (Not counting its predecessor, Vine) But I accept that launching it as a paid service was extremely risky. Better to start with something free and attention-getting.
- polytely 6y ago

mattjack 6y ago

A few others have mentioned that Quibi is not an interesting enough alternative timewasting app to Snapchat, Instagram, etc. I agree and I'm glad to see it fail for that reason; I want my attention span back and I'm trying to cut these things out of my life. I notice my well-being improves when I do. That's personal preference obviously, and people are free to spend their time how they want, but I think the loss of attention span is a culture-scale problem now and excising these companies from our lives is a necessary treatment. I hope Quibi folds permanently and we salt the earth where it stood.

jlokier 6y ago
It seems strange to me that you want Quibi to die so that you can get your attention span back. To cut these things out of your life. Can't you just... ignore it? Cut these things out of your life anyway? Live and let live?
- mattjack 6y ago
  Like I said this is personal preference. I've never used it but I think it makes culture worse so I hope it goes under. I never know what people are going to like so maybe it will become the next TikTok instead, or someone will make a new Quibi that I also won't use or understand :)

lnanek2 6y ago

The free trial code was pretty poorly implemented. I remember I signed up, and it didn't let me watch immediately. By the time I verified email or whatever the heck they wanted and tried again, the trial had expired and so I never even got to try a single video...

dboshardy 6y ago

I acknowledge this is my cynicism mostly talking, but I get the impression that Quibi has switched to the "guilt the consumer into subscribing" marketing strategy given all the press about it (including interviews with executives).

throwawaysea 6y ago

I think a big problem might be marketing. I’ve not seen Quibi advertised anywhere. I don’t know anyone personally who has tried it. I only know a few who have even heard of it. Even if you consider the conversion rate good, I don’t think they’ve had many people at the top of their funnel.

alkibiades 6y ago
i’ve seen it all over twitter. with constants ads
rchaud 6y ago
They advertise constantly on Instagram

qwe098cube 6y ago

I never understood their pitch in first place. Why pay for quick bites when I get decent content (~10min) for free on youtube? Generally, I would assume people watch netflix/amazon/disney content for entertainment and expect their originals to be of the usual or slight longer duration. That's content to enjoy watching over a longer period of time. People like this format, hence binge watching is a thing. I can't see why people would rather watch a highly produced quick bite while waiting in line for a coffee instead of watching a new upload from a subscribed creator on youtube for like 10 minutes. There are plenty of famous youtubers upload almost daily, with daily/weekly views much higher than the total app downloads quibi has so far. And they don't have a ~2B$ war chest.

evanelias 6y ago
Verizon attempted a similar content/audience strategy to Quibi several years ago, with their content platform called go90 [1]. Their pitch centered around the lack of 15-20 minute video content with high production values, and the assumption that this type of content would be successful with millennials and commuters. They burned over $1B and it was a colossal failure -- apparently so forgettable that none of the coverage on Quibi even mentions it. One major difference: go90 was a free service, and it was even zero-rated for Verizon Wireless customers (i.e. didn't count against subscriber data caps). Yet it remained a failure across several attempted pivots before Verizon threw in the towel completely. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go90 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go90
- TylerE 6y ago
  > the lack of 15-20 minute video content with high production values, What a truly bizarre tack if that's what they really though. A "30 minute" TV episode is actually about 20-21 minutes minus the ads, intro, and credits.
- perardi 6y ago
  I remember seeing those ads on the CTA. And then promptly went back to either reading stuff in Instapaper, or listening to podcasts, or playing Pokémon Go if we were moving at a slow enough speed.

mtgp1000 6y ago

I hadn't heard of this service until just now but I worry that it is another volley against the consumer in the war on the attention span. It can't be good for individuals or our collective to consume all of our media in short, predigested clips (or posts, or comments). I genuinely believe that the average capacity for "long running" thoughts (and general idea complexity) is being eroded. All of our media seems to be

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TedDoesntTalk 6y ago

> Sensor Tower is a reputable analytics company known for reporting accurate estimates I see SensorTower quoted a lot for mobile analytics, but their methods are completely opaque AFAIK. For all I know, one can “buy” good analytics by giving them some money, in order to promote an app. Alternatively, nepotism could skew analytics: the CTO’s brother-in-law’s app gets higher usage and download ratings than a competitor. How can we trust that such companies are honest?

Elidrake24 6y ago

I really wanted to like Quibi. I enjoyed the Most Dangerous Game romp, I really loved the daily updates from the BBC, and overall the idea of content specifically made for ~10 minute sprints work perfectly for me. The rest of the content though... Pretty bad, at least to me. One daily show isn't enough to keep me around. Anyone know of a solid, ~15 minute daily news report similar to what the BBC was offering on Quibi? Preferably something with a worldwide scope. I'd happily pay a fraction of Quibi's monthly fee for just that show.

marrone12 6y ago
Reuters used to have a short form news update at https://reuters.tv https://reuters.tv but it seems like they shut it down earlier this year.

pkamb 6y ago

Where is the vertical video app that lets you watch your favorite YouTube/IG/Twitch-type “content creators” on your phone in the same easy/addictive format as Stories? That seems to be what people want, not network produced scripted tv made brief + vertical.

umeshunni 6y ago
> Where is the vertical video app that lets you watch your favorite YouTube/IG/Twitch-type “content creators” on your phone in the same easy/addictive format as Stories? I think you just described TikTok.
- pkamb 6y ago
  Yeah, this kind of content/UI is definitely available on Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, and probably Facebook. YouTube and Twitch though seem to have some of the strongest "content creator" culture and are both still stuck in landscape videos and other sub-optimal phone UI.

cs702 6y ago

I'm not sure which one is more "impressive," between Wirecard and Quibi, as a mechanism for making around $2 billion disappear. On one hand, Wirecard at least maintained the illusion that the money had not been disappearing, for years and years. They fooled auditors, regulators, and investors all over the world, again and again. That takes major cojones. On the other hand, Quibi is managing to vaporize the money very quickly with Hollywood glamour and spectacle. If you're going to blow things up, there's something to be said for doing it with style. Peter Sellers would be proud of their unintentional "performance." At least Wirecard did it intentionally.

ogre_codes 6y ago

The conversion rate isn't the biggest problem. The big problem is their launch got so little momentum/ uptake to begin with and their platform has no presence. In spite of their high dollar Super Bowl commercial, nobody outside tech seems to know what they are or why they would subscribe to them. Having an unknown service is bad enough, but they have no base to grow from. Disney+ is Disney. Apple TV+ has Apple behind them and is able to offer a free year with every iPhone. HBO, CBS, MLB, and even Hulu have big, well known brands with known content. Everyone in streaming started with a base or with at least free content. It's not the 8% that's the issue here, it's the fact that they have fewer than a hundred thousand users and no momentum.

x87678r 6y ago

Quibi should be ad-supported, I can't see how else it could get popular. I look at the website and I can't even see any videos. I'd actually like a good alternative to Youtube, this could have been it.

bmarquez 6y ago
Quibi actually already has an ad-supported plan, you pay $4.99 a month and get a 4-15 second ad every time you watch a new episode. It's incredibly annoying when you have to watch ads every time you queue an episode to download for offline viewing.

RIMR 6y ago

Oh no, that reminds me that I need to cancel before I pay for another month. Truly terrible service. Amazed they got the funding they did.

jimbobimbo 6y ago

Is Disney's conversion rate and subscriber numbers a valid benchmark for startup's conversion rate and subscriber numbers though?

koiz 6y ago

Create bad content and no one will care.

JadoJodo 6y ago

Obviously this is anecdata but: I've not been drawn to Quibi at all because I've tried to be MORE purposeful in my entertainment choices ("I feel like watching that new Funny Movie tonight"), not less ("Eh, I've got 10-minutes until the dentist calls me in. Better fill that with a random thing on Quibi").

jyriand 6y ago

Never heard of this service. Seems like they have too much money at hand. When you have billions you start to think that every problem can be solved with money and that inhibits creative solutions. Instead of organic growth based on the value they can provide, they try to buy their way into the premium league.

jacquesm 6y ago

A ~10% conversion from free to paid is something quite a few companies would sign for on the spot. Depending on the industry you can see < 1% to < .1% and still be happy. All that matters is whether or not the customers that do convert stay long enough to make it worth your while. If 50% converts but they all cancel after month 1 that's a lot worse than if 10% converts and they stay for 30 years.

droningparrot 6y ago

I'm sure there's more to it than this, but I think that a bit of unfortunate timing may have contributed to Quibi's demise. This may have had a chance in the pre-lockdown world when everyone was rushing around, and had a few short moments of boredom in between. With most people no longer commuting and most forms of entertainment and recreation closed, a lot of people have fewer things competing for their time. I think many people are now spending their time on things that use up longer chunks of time: watching TV or movies, going outside, and hobbies.

bluedevil2k 6y ago

They went the wrong route with programming. Instead of top quality content with A/B list actors, they should have dumped out a lot of cheap reality show content. That stuff works well 10 minutes at a time on network TV (between commercials). Think Real World, Blind Date, Cribs. It’s cheap to make, appeals to the target market for Quibi, and would have required a LOT less funding at the beginning from the investors who now seem likely to lose all their money.

deeviant 6y ago

I have serious doubts as the viability of Quibi, mainly from my experience with sci-fi short-story compilations. Sure there have been some great short story compilations, but paradoxically, the better they are the worse they feel. As you just get invested in a great story/world only to have it end a short time later.

alkibiades 6y ago

you mean audiences didn’t flock to “gayme show”? did they try at all to make content they think people want rather than blindly just getting celebs on it?

rameezt123 6y ago

sensor tower is great for mobile app estimates but really falls flat on its face with streaming. first, downloads do not mean payment or usage. you can download an app long before you use it. second, as netflix confirmed years ago, 70%+ of sign-ups happen on TVs – probably even more during COVID – so app activity is not a meaningful lever of insights. https://www.vox.com/2018/3/7/17094610/netflix-70-percent-tv-viewing-statistics https://www.vox.com/2018/3/7/17094610/netflix-70-percent-tv-...