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Oculus sunsets Go, will add easier Quest app distribution
- shafyy 6y ago> That’s why we’re going all-in, and we won’t be shipping any more 3DOF VR products. This is not exactly surprising, but still a bold and absolutely correct move from Oculus. As a developer who was rejected from the Oculus Quest store before, it's great to hear that they now how concrete plans to start opening up the store.
- ericflo 6y agoI'll believe their new distribution method when I see it. How will they handicap it? How will they maintain their requisite absolute control? And we won't see it until sometime next year? Hmm. (Spoken as someone who was rejected from the Rift store.)
- cybwraith 6y agoYeah anything from them should be taken with a healthy grain of salt at this point, but I'm cautiously optimistic. My game was on Go/Rift but reject from Quest with a "Why don't you try releasing on the Rift first!" message. This despite my game already being on Rift with 10,000+ downloads and a 4.5 star rating average. I said it when they announced the approval process for Quest, and I'll say it again, it was too early in VR's life to pull an Apple.
- shafyy 6y agoI'm imagining you'll just have a direct link to your app in the store that you can use e.g. on your website or submit to SideQuest. Your app won't be findable on the Quest store otherwise. Why is that hard to believe?
- ericflo 6y ago> Why is that hard to believe? Because they haven't given us any of these details that you're imagining. Will there still be an approval process? Will Facebook give up any control? Will this be just like "keys only" distribution, a return of the Concepts/Early Access channel, or something like the old Oculus Share? So...I'll believe it when I see it.
- shafyy 6y agoIn the linked blog post, they say that apps will be still subject to their policies (same as when you want your app in the iOS app store or Android Play Store), but that you'll have a direct link to distribute.
- ericflo 6y agoThe direct link mention is encouraging, I hope they do something interesting with the opportunity
- iamwil 6y agoRecently, I ran across this purportedly leaked strategy letter on VR/AR at FB. https://www.scribd.com/document/399594551/2015-06-22-MARK-S-VISION https://www.scribd.com/document/399594551/2015-06-22-MARK-S-... From that, it seems odd they'd be willing to give up control. So like you, I'll believe it when I see it.
- leetrout 6y agoI feel like so much of the submission to the Quest store lead to a lot of devs adding stupid features / mechanics _just_ to show off the quest features (forced climbing or hand interactions and similar in games where it doesn't really seem necessary). Trying to inject themselves into development at the concept phase (at least for Quest) sucked too. I understand not wanting trash in the store but there has to be a middle ground.
- ilaksh 6y agoIts actually kind of funny for them how much money they seem to be making hand-over-fist with their Oculus Store and Quest titles. But not funny when you are locked out of that. And they can lock out apps or games that they have a conflict with in terms of titles they are associated with themselves or any other reason. I think if their new distribution system isn't open enough, that leads the market wide open for someone to come in with a device that has an open marketplace and I would drop Oculus in a second if that were the case. Because Sideloading is a pain in the ass.
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago>How will they handicap it? How will they maintain their requisite absolute control? I mean they already allow you to install anything you want on the device with a single click so not sure why you're using this sort of language. Think they clearly just want a middle ground where indie developers can release something but there isn't a chance of malware.
- vageli 6y ago> > That’s why we’re going all-in, and we won’t be shipping any more 3DOF VR products. > This is not exactly surprising, but still a bold and absolutely correct move from Oculus. > As a developer who was rejected from the Oculus Quest store before, it's great to hear that they now how concrete plans to start opening up the store. If you were rejected from the Quest store, you can still put your content out there on SideQuest.
- shafyy 6y agoAnd I have. But the reality is that the vast majority of Quest users don't know about SideQuest and/or don't want the hassle of sideloading.
- fomine3 6y agoAnd SideQuest is terrible experience for me.
- gwillen 6y agoSideloaded apps now give multiple scary warnings about the Terms of Service: See e.g. https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/4487.png https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/4487.pn... . "May put your account and device at risk" is not going to get you a viable third-party app ecosystem, especially when it's an open question what Facebook/Oculus might decide to clamp down on in the future.
- coffeeaddicted 6y agoUnfortunately just the kind of experience you can expect when buying non-open systems. Company loses interest in hardware - it can stop everyone developing for it. If they would at least open it up for sideloading so the hardware isn't doomed to become electronic trash.
- throwaway1777 6y agoQuest is a huge step up from go, so I don’t think anyone is going to complain in this case. Most new apps/games aren’t being released for it anyway.
- sdfgsdfgsdfg 6y agosaid the person that did not invest in the hardware or development for it. good for you.
- Kiro 6y ago100% correct decision in this case.
- coffeeaddicted 6y agoYou do like hardware getting locked down for development less than 2 years after it's release? (edit: OK, a bit over 2 years - 31. May 2018, still not that old) I don't care about the shop. I just wish people could continue to develop for it as it is (or now was...) a pretty fun device to experiment with VR.
- ipsum2 6y agoWhy can't you develop for it? Seems easy to load non-signed APKs: https://headjack.io/tutorial/sideload-install-app-apk-oculus-go-quest/ https://headjack.io/tutorial/sideload-install-app-apk-oculus...
- coffeeaddicted 6y ago
- ArcVRArthur 6y agoI hate to keep saying "I told you so" but I've had many conversations at Oculus Connect & elsewhere about the abject failure of 3DoF with few people seriously considering that the market has spoken. 6DoF standalone VR is the minimum bar for success with spacial computing. Forget 3DoF & AR. Focus on what's growing and retentive. That's 6DoF VR standalones and currently Quest is king.
- didgeoridoo 6y agoI'd go so far as to say 3DoF was a massive setback for popular perceptions of VR. Low-resolution spherical imagery and video is just not that impressive, and that's all you get with 3DoF. Contrast with the presence and immersion you get with even the cheapest 6DoF headsets, and it's not even the same technology category. So, now we have a bunch of people walking around thinking they "tried VR" because they had a Gear or a Go or a Cardboard, but they didn't get what the big deal was about.
- rorykoehler 6y agoThe latest vive changed my mind on VR. I guess I’m in that cohort
- dgellow 6y agoWhat does it bring?
- shafyy 6y agoI think there are huge differences between Cardboard, Gear and Go. I believe the Go was a good step to get many people into VR in the first place. I know it pulled me in. But now is a good time to move on.
- freehunter 6y agoI agree. I bought a Go on Black Friday for under $100 and it impressed me so much for such a low cost that I’m looking for a “real” VR headset. Unfortunately it seems I started looking just as companies stopped making any affordable 6dof headsets and the jump from $100 for the Go to $1000 for the only currently available VR headset is just too much for me so I’ll be waiting a bit longer. But dipping my toes in the water definitely whetted my appetite for more.
- caiobegotti 6y agoIn case you're not into VR but is curious about it from time to time: DoF means degree of freedom and you can easily imagine the tech leap from 3 to 6 (X, Y & Z axis of movements of the head plus surge [back and forth], sway [sideways] and heave [vertical] movements of your body).
- k__ 6y ago3DoF -> looking around 6DoF -> looking & moving around
- NegativeLatency 6y ago6DoF -> looking around and moving around
- k__ 6y agoRight!
- andybak 6y agoAnd "moving" includes small movements. Parallax is obvious just from leaning small amounts and it's absence is what spoils 3DOF VR. 6DOF is important even for static seated experiences.
- keyle 6y agoI remember opening my DK2 prototype with huge excitement, open a game, nearly vomit twice and put it back in the box "for later". I have not adopted more VR options since (still sour from the money spent). But I imagine 6-dof is the minimum requirement. Box still there, covered in dust.
- m12k 6y agoFWIW the DK2 made me queezy within minutes, but the Valve Index I recently got never does even after hours of use. They've really come a long way.
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- arkades 6y agoSo, for someone who isn’t gonna drop a grand on a Valve rig, what’s the right purchase for a gamer today?
- Kiro 6y agoOculus Quest. Hands down. I used to be a real VR skeptic before but after trying it I immediately got one and now use it every day. For me you either go all-in with Valve Index or get a Quest.
- iamwil 6y agoWhat do you use it everyday for? Gaming? Or something else? If it's porn, you don't have to answer, but it's a genuine question what you're spending all your time in VR doing.
- zhoujianfu 6y agoLooks like no answer... ;)
- pornel 6y agoAnd Beat Saber. It really is a killer app.
- Kiro 6y agoThe staple is Beat Saber which I play every day. Right now I mix it with Racket: Nx.
- Filligree 6y agoHands down the Quest. I have both for development purposes, but I find the Quest a far better experience and end up using it most of the time.
- arkades 6y agoI was expecting someone to say like, Vive or something. The Quest is that good? I see it being pitched as stand-alone. Does that mean you can't use it to do VR for PC games (e.g., Skyrim)?
- leetrout 6y agoThe Go is a great piece of hardware for what it is. In my opinion, working with it since day one: It isn't going anywhere. You can still sideload, you can still tinker and the tooling is there to do this in pure android studio + 3d engine. You don't need anything from FB / oculus for hobby projects as long as the driver is available (and they're already "out" so hopefully FB just puts it on GitHub or similar). I still prefer the Go for watching content on planes, to "zone out" with virtual zen spaces, etc.
- baby 6y ago> for watching content on planes wow, didn't think about that! The battery is not that great though
- leetrout 6y agoAgree. Most planes have USB power right at the seat, though.
- rixrax 6y agoAnd go is still great for watching porn (maybe not in airplane though) for as far as Im aware all of it is 3DOF 180 fov movies.
- leetrout 6y agoThere were similar comments in a thread I commented on in 2018. It’s interesting that a lot of people immediately jump to porn. The Redbull content is really good and watching regular content in the void or similar is a novelty, IMO, when you don’t do it everyday. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17509327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17509327
- krapp 6y agoI bought a Go recently because it was the only VR platform I could afford and... it was cool for a minute but quickly felt like a gimmick, so this isn't surprising. I'd still like to develop for "real" VR and play around with it in the future but this is out of my league at the moment.
- whywhywhywhy 6y agoDefinitely try the Quest if you have a chance. Real VR isn't about the 3D effect it's about having body and hand presence.
- kbenson 6y agoI'm still annoyed that they don't have multiple user profiles for Quest. What kind of gaming device doesn't support that in 2020? Every time I hear an announcement from Oculus, I have a little hope they'll announce support for this, and every time I'm disappointed.
- TulliusCicero 6y agoYeah this is the dumbest part of using a Quest right now. No profiles means no separate save data, so I can't differentiate my high scores in Beat Saber from my wife's, which is really annoying. And then of course in some games with a story mode, if they didn't build in multiple save files into the game then you're just kind of screwed.
- bonniemuffin 6y agoTotally. When I make Oculus friends, I hate that I have to tell them to find me as [my husband's username] because he signed up on the device first, so now I can never have my own Oculus account. I solved the Beatsaber highscores problem by being really really good at Beatsaber, so I only play on Expert+ and he only plays the lower levels. That way our high scores are separate. :)
- s369610 6y agoI use party mode for this. It lets you enter your names etc.
- jaaron 6y agoWas just chatting with a friend about this. It makes no sense. The Quest is the perfect machine to share with others. I can take it to friends or family (well, pre-covid I could). VR _needs_ to reduce the friction to trying it out. Even just a generic "guest" profile would be a huge step forward.
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- kingnothing 6y agoHow does Quest compare to Rift for anyone who's used both?
- TulliusCicero 6y agoI own a Quest and Rift CV1. It's hard to go back to the Rift, even with the extra computing power. It's just a pain to clear enough space, whereas I can be more flexible with where I use the Quest. Plus, the cameras are an eyesore, think I might just take them down. The resolution on the Quest is better too, and when I really need my gaming PC for some VR title I can always use link with it. The Quest has a lot of cool titles on it, though I'd be lying if I didn't admit that most of the time it's a Beat Saber machine for me. Beat Saber is fantastic.
- timdorr 6y agoI have both the Quest and Rift S (previously a Rift and DK2, along with regular usage of the Vive). I would say just get the Quest. For PC-backed graphics and exclusives, you can use Virtual Desktop with the sideloaded unlock to do wireless streaming or use Link for a hardwired experience. The Rift has better quality screens and optics, but the Quest has a higher FoV and I find that ultimately wins out for overall experience. The hand tracking stuff is very cool, extremely well done, and a bunch of stuff is coming down the pipe for it right now. It's supposed to come to the Rift too, but for now Quest has the advantage there. I will probably end up selling my Rift at some point. I got the value of playing Alyx at full quality, but don't consider the minor IQ loss with streaming to the Quest to be that much of a blocker. I can do everything with the Quest, so it's the system for me.
- whywhywhywhy 6y agoRift was outstanding at the time and I think I still prefer the shape of the controllers but that said I haven't even touched it since getting the Quest. Being able to use it anywhere in the house and without a cable just make it a much better experience. Also when you do use it with a PC the guardian setup process is more reliable and less error prone than having to set up external PC sensors.
- bni 6y ago
- theschwa 6y agoFocusing their product line like this is a great move. I hope that they do more to hone in on overall usability for the average user, and continue to expand beyond gamers as their core persona. Focusing on standalone VR, hand tracking, and hopefully more social and productivity apps like Facebook Horizon will be the best way to grow.
- gorgoiler 6y agoHow easy is it to ship exemplar apps to Quest? Can I just pick up Unity XR, riff a little on the FPS example, and compile it straight to something I can load on a Quest?
- zlsa 6y agoI don't think there's a pre-built FPS VR template from Unity, but it is pretty simple for basic projects. Word of warning, though: VR locomotion is very different from FPS locomotion, and gets very complex pretty quickly.
- gorgoiler 6y agoAh, that’s a shame. I naively thought the Unity FPS game would load onto Oculus Quest. My real goal is to have students ship content of their own to the Quest, to dive a little deeper into programming and technology than they might do as mere consumers.
- johncozen 6y agoCurrently you could sideload it or work with the Oculus submission process to release it on their store. This article seems to suggest they will release another, frictionless avenue to make VR experiences accessible on Quest.
- mrfusion 6y agoTo paraphrase, we want a way you can distribute crappy games but no way they’re going in our store.
- drcode 6y ago> People have spent more than $100M on Quest content and more than 10 titles have generated over $2M in revenue on Quest That sounds weird: The only numbers they can share with us are that people have spent $100M on game development, but they only point to a total of $20M of revenue. Obviously $20M isn't the entire revenue on the platform... but since they didn't share any other numbers, the default assumption would have to be that they aren't very flattering, either. "Come develop on our platform! Spend $100M to make $20M in revenue!"
- rgovostes 6y agoThey are saying $100M in transactions have taken place on their app store, and a handful of the most popular titles have made $2M each. Not that developers are burning $5 to make $1.
- zhoujianfu 6y agoAlso, at least $2M... it’s probably like #1: $20M, #2: $10M, #3: $5M, and so on. So probably half the $100M went to the top 10?
- jachee 6y agoProbably a huge chunk of it is $30+ never-on-sale Beat Sabre.
- terpsichorean 6y agoAs an old VR developer, this is great news. I agree with you all - remove 3DoF, it’s “diluting” the experience, and not in a good way. In the apps themselves, too many design sacrifices have to be made to account for this narrow use case. The price point was great - but for overall flexibility standalone devices are the future.
- sdfgsdfgsdfg 6y agoThe entirety of the VR/AR market is just silicon valley dream. that can go two ways. The (game) companies are salivating at appstore-like revenues and they will do everything they can to lock in everything. it will be a DRM world like Hollywood/google/apple never dreamed possible. And it will either end well for them, and every big companies will buy expensive workstations, expensive headsets, then install a game-store-rootkit and pay the SolidWorks 2039 annual subscription there and everyone outside of the main markets will pay insane high prices like they pay today for premium tech (e.g. equivalent of a car for a Xbox one or low end Mac. You haven no idea how good you have in the US) Or most companies won't give in. They will just buy big monitors like they always have and VR will die, or continue as it is today, just a rich mid-30s-engineer's toy.
- Causality1 6y agoAfter a few years with an Oculus Touch, my basic conclusion is that I'm too good at immersing myself in standard games to ever be truly excited about VR. For me there just isn't a big enough difference to justify all the inconveniences.
- Uhrheber 6y agoWhat a dick move. I can understand that they won't accept any new apps, but also not accepting updates? A lot of apps for media playing and social media for the Go are still under active development. Not allowing updates will effectively cut off Go users from social media. I sense a class action coming.
- rcarmo 6y agoI’ve been thinking of getting one now that it is a pretty well supported target in Godot (https://godotengine.org/article/godot-oculus-quest-support https://godotengine.org/article/godot-oculus-quest-support), which means I could easily get prototypes running on it with little hassle. Am curious about when they’ll refresh the hardware, though, because it comes across as a little underpowered on the standalone front (and I don’t have a beefy machine to use Oculus Link with it).
- Mindwipe 6y ago> https://developer.oculus.com/blog/the-next-chapter-of-oculus-development-and-a-new-quest-distribution-path-coming-in-2021/ https://developer.oculus.com/blog/the-next-chapter-of-oculus... Still lots of content censorship requirements for this new way to distribute. Why does content have to submit to a blanket rejection of dealing with any sexuality when it's not even going through their store? https://developer.oculus.com/policy/content-guidelines/ https://developer.oculus.com/policy/content-guidelines/
- toeachtheirown 6y agoWhen this happens, will we still be able to sideload into the Go? Haven't found a solid answer for this yet.