26 ms·

'Into The Wild' bus removed from Alaska wilderness

238 points by arprocter 6y ago

ben165 6y ago
I'm somehow sad reading about it. It was one of my destinations ony my list. This guy inspired my to travel the world. Thanks Alexander Supertramp :)
- moate 6y ago
  Some unprepared wannabe who got himself killed because of how unprepared he was is your hero? Weird choice. Also, as the great Dr Henry Jones jr. said, “it belongs in a museum!” That thing was responsible for many deaths over the years, and would be better suited as a safe attraction to visit by all the white suburbanites sick of how fake their existence is. Maybe with a plaque stating how many rescue missions had to be sent out because of novices not knowing what they’re doing.
  - catalogia 6y ago
    Alaska has the most missing people per capital of any US state, a few times higher than the natural average. Not all of that is attributable to the wilderness, but much of it is. Nature isn't like a Disney movie, but many people don't seem to appreciate that.
    - starpilot 6y ago
      Mandatory YER GONNA DIE posting requirement now satisfied.
    - matwood 6y ago
      As a friend of mine likes to say, "never forget that nature is always trying to kill you."
    - brailsafe 6y ago
      Nature is exactly like a Disney movie. It's incredibly beautiful at times, and tragic in others. Either way, you might end up with an impactful story.
  - NotSammyHagar 6y ago
    Makes me sad and happy to see that, cause of changing a tragic story but also good to protect people. It's a 9 hour hike from Healy and the bus location is on Google maps.
  - tasuki 6y ago
    He survived for 113 days in the wilderness, not too bad. He was unprepared, yes, but it also seems he knew that what he was doing was risky, and he seems to have been ok taking that risk. I'm not quite sure - why judge him negatively?
    - BelleOfTheBall 6y ago
      A lot of people judge him negatively because of what happened post his death: a non-fiction book about him, a feature film, hundreds of imitators, a cult of "hard survival". This lead to people dying, getting malnourished, government funds being spent on rescuing them. However, he never knew and never will know any of that happened. All he cared about is the journey, how is he possibly responsible for inspiring unprepared people to go into the woods? It's not like he's a still-living lifestyle blogger who goads people into doing this. He's not a hero but he's not deserving of all the flack he gets.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - xenihn 6y ago
      I think I get it. Everyone knows his name, but no one knows the names of people who lived and died trying to rescue people like him.
      - hombre_fatal 6y ago
        Well, don't leave us hanging after suggesting such moral failing with so much contempt. How many people actually die trying to rescue people like him?
        EdwardDiego 6y ago
        Here's one from my local area - the climbers shouldn't have been up there, the incoming weather was predictable, they thought they could beat it, they didn't, and as a result, a rescuer was killed by an avalanche trying to save them - but they were all killed by avalanches also. https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/90751216/memorial-for-one-of-nzs-worst-alpine-tragedies-to-be-unveiled-in-arthurs-pass https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/90751216/memorial-for...
asdfman123 6y ago
Seems like they could easily put it into a museum. Or just some plot of land in a nearby town with a plaque. Hopefully that's where it ends up.
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  Yeah a musuem more accessible that explains in detail every rescue attempt resulting from it would be a nice set up, especially when combined with a ranger station or similar public wilderness awareness teaching effort. Let the full scope be told about his life and motivations but also that his fate was totally preventable. It would dramatically change the concept but a home town located musuem would have a full circle effect to it and his life.
- _greim_ 6y ago
  Or put it in a meadow along some easy trail near Anchorage. Let people hike to it there.
- grecy 6y ago
  > Or just some plot of land in a nearby town with a plaque. Hopefully that's where it ends up The recreation of the bus used to film the movie is in Healy, AK. It's exactly what you describe. And it looks so similar to the real thing I have a hard time telling them apart.
- gscott 6y ago
  AirBNB will by it, you can rent it for $500 a night.
kerkeslager 6y ago
One of my friends lived in Healy, Alaska, the nearest town to the bus. He said that a lot of people came to the area trying to relive McCandless' journey. Locals called them "pukers" because they would go into the woods and within a few days of attempting to forage for food, would inevitably eat or drink something contaminated or one of the various mildly poisonous plants in the area, begin vomiting, and give up and return to town (hopefully). I always thought of McCandless' story as a cautionary tale. I don't think it means we should compromise on our ideals, but I do think it means we need to build skills and awareness. There are causes worth dying for, but most of the time dying can and should be avoided.
- jdhawk 6y ago
  this is the slow version of idiots falling into the grand canyon trying to get a great selfie.
  - regulation_d 6y ago
    If you're going to Healy, AK, chances are you're not just doing it for the gram. I remember reading Into The Wild in my twenties and feeling a strong connection to Alex. Even if going to the bus wasn't a wise decision, I feel it's only human to want to cultivate those types of connections. I never went to the bus, but I was definitely curious what Alex was experiencing in the final days of his life. I agree with GP that it's a cautionary tale, but it's more than that. It's caused thousands of people to think more about the way they live their lives. Seems a bit more substantive than simply trying to get a selfie, don't you think?
    - brudgers 6y ago
      To me, a celebrity bus is not more substantive than the Grand Canyon. This would include Furthur if it still existed. YMMV.
      - kerkeslager 6y ago
        I don't think the person you are responding to was saying that a celebrity bus is more substantive than the Grand Canyon. I think they were saying that going to a place because it has meaning for an ideal of breaking dependence on society is more substantive than going to a place so you can take a picture to get attention on the internet. It's not about the place, it's about your reasons for going there. The Grand Canyon is a place with incredible splendor, and I am sure there are people who go there for substantive reasons too.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
scythe 6y ago
I was surprised that a bus needed to be removed because it was dangerous. Apparently you have to cross a river to get to it -- that was killing people. The stories of McCandless's journey suggest that we should consider the psychology of self-harm and suicide when we ask about his motivations. He ignored even the most basic precautions, which considering his education and age should reveal something other than mere stupidity. He seemed to want to put himself at risk of harm -- leaving food behind, refusing assistance from locals, and not even learning to preserve meat, so the animals he killed could not feed him. It seems like his being at constant risk of death by starvation and exposure was not an accident.
- cowboysauce 6y ago
  I think you're drastically underestimating how stupid and over-confident people can be. He had a college education, but that doesn't teach you the survival skills needed to live in the wilderness. McCandless spent a few years bumming around the United states before traveling to Alaska which likely gave him a false sense of security in his survival abilities. Most people living in western nations have no idea of how unforgiving the wilderness can be, nor do they understand the amount of effort that it can take to survive. The amount of tourists who think that national parks are just the outdoor equivalent of Disney Land is shocking.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    > He had a college education, but that doesn't teach you the survival skills needed to live in the wilderness. I can vouch for that. I don't even know how to set a snare or how to prepare a rabbit if I caught one.
    - selimthegrim 6y ago
      The "SAS Survival Handbook" of the late 80s-early 90s by Lofty Wiseman is calling your name...
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    The book made it clear that during his few years bumming around, he made plenty of mistakes too. Luckily, then, he had other people around to bail him out.
grecy 6y ago
In the summer of 2009, at the beginning of my first massive expedition from Alaska to Argentina, I hiked into the bus and spent a night in what turned out to be the most intense and peaceful place I've ever spent time. Reading the exhilarating stories in the guest book was like nothing I've ever experienced, and I was awe-struck that one person can inspire so many with his big smile and simple approach to life. Over the years I've spent hundreds of hours thinking about Chris, his conscious choice to live the life he wanted and the freedom that brought him. He is one of my biggest inspirations, and I like to think we would have been friends. Every time the sound track from the movie comes on I get tingles down my spine, and I can't help but sing along. It's easily the most-listened to music of my life, and in a strange way it's the sound track to my life. I have mixed emotions about the removal of the bus - on one hand I understand the need to stop people visiting who require rescue, while on the other I'm sad I never made a return trip. I had always planned a solo winter trip, and somehow while living only ten hours away for four years I never made the effort. Yet another reason to always go for it, right now. Although the bus is no longer there, I'm sure I'll make a trek to the spot anyway, and I'm sure Chris will continue to inspire me throughout my life. "Happiness is only real when shared" - Chris McCandless Here's my account of my hike into the bus in 2009 http://theroadchoseme.com/the-magic-bus http://theroadchoseme.com/the-magic-bus
- ethagnawl 6y ago
  > Every time the sound track from the movie comes on I get tingles down my spine ... I don't think I've heard any of those songs since I saw the movie when it was in theaters, but you've reminded me how much they've stuck with me. Eddie Vedder's vocals are so raw and vulnerable and there couldn't have been a better choice. I'm going to listen to the soundtrack this afternoon -- thanks for the reminder. I'm also looking forward to reading your travelogue.
- topherPedersen 6y ago
  Wild!
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  What a great resource, your website. While he doesn't have much in common with Chris, I was inspired at an identity level when I first read Rolf Potts' Vagabonding as a teen and other pieces of his work like https://rolfpotts.com/storming-the-beach/ https://rolfpotts.com/storming-the-beach/.
EL_Loco 6y ago
There's an interesting piece called "Chris McCandless from an Alaska Park Ranger’s Perspective" http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity/2006/Peter_Christian_Response.pdf http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity/2006/Peter_Christian_Re... "Some like McCandless, show up in Alaska, unprepared, unskilled and unwilling to take the time to learn the skills they need to be successful. These quickly get in trouble and either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of government money on helicopters and overtime. When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did wasn’t even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic and inconsiderate. First off, he spent very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail without even a map of the area. If he had a good map he could have walked out of his predicament using one of several routes that could have been successful."
- grecy 6y ago
  These kind of hyperbolic statements don't do much to educate, they're over sensationalized. > These quickly get in trouble and either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of government money on helicopters and overtime Since 1992, only two people have died trying to reach the bus, they both drowned in the Tek (which was hard for me to cross, at 6 foot 2 and 185 lbs). One in 2010, and one last year. As for the number of rescues: "The state carried out 15 bus-related search and rescue operations between 2009 and 2017, authorities say" [1] [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53106441 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53106441 For what it's worth, I lived in the Yukon for 4 years. I've been bison hunting at -45C, I've spent months hunting, hiking and fishing all over the Yukon and a ton of time in Alaska too. I know what it takes.
  - catalogia 6y ago
    That quote is not referring exclusively to people who try to reach the bus and there's nothing hyperbolic about it. Alaska State Troopers conduct several hundred search and rescue missions each year (https://dps.alaska.gov/AST/SAR/Home https://dps.alaska.gov/AST/SAR/Home), that number probably goes up when you include federal and state park rangers as well.
topherPedersen 6y ago
That makes sense to move the bus actually. Christopher McCandless died there, so why would the tourist fare any better? Sort of sad to see them move the bus, but it's probably the right thing to do. Would be nice to see them move it to a safer location that people can still visit.
- duxup 6y ago
  >so why would the tourist fare any better? The sad part is even a little preparation and caution would save most of them. That area isn't particularly dangerous or impossible to escape. McCandless just didn't prepare much at all, he could have potentially gotten out / help, had he bothered to know about his surroundings / or prepared. The scale of dangers and etc can be hard for folks to understand who aren't ready... but that area / situation was hardly notably dangerous.
TimesOldRoman 6y ago
If we were to do a New Deal-type shift away from the military industrial complex, could the National Guard be pointed at cleaning up "litter" like this? Corps of Engineer-type work being pointed at infrastructure cleanup, which includes cultivating and caring for natural resources, seems like a fantastic use of tax dollars.
- KenanSulayman 6y ago
  It was the Alaskan National Guard who removed the bus. [1] [1] https://www.dvidshub.net/news/372418/alaska-national-guard-airlifts-into-wild-bus-stampede-trail https://www.dvidshub.net/news/372418/alaska-national-guard-a...
- mikecoles 6y ago
  No. Stupid people with stupid ideas should be charged with cleaning up the litter. There's no reason to waste money on a "New Deal".
brailsafe 6y ago
Into the Wild certainly inspired me to increase my exposure to the wilderness, on top of many years watching Survivorman. I only grew up car camping, so it's a slowish process of acquiring the necessary skills through longer and more challenging summit day hikes in coastal BC, and soon multi-day backpacking as I aquire necessary gear. I was never particularly taken by the transactional feedback loop of life, and I think the McCandless story sort of re-affirmed that in some way. The only things I've done that approximate his path were a few long and short term trips that I've taken with no real plan, nowhere to be, and no place or time to be back. It's not for everyone, but you build a lot more confidence if yiu can make it through.
- prawn 6y ago
  Not sure if the sport has much of a presence near you, but look out for "rogaining". It's basically orienteering without the fixed course: you're given a contour map with targets worth varying values, and given a timeframe to gain the highest tally and return home. Events are typically 3-24 hours. Something that was a milestone for me was my first 24 hour rogaine in rugged Australian bush. You are out walking all night by light of headlamps and moon. It only takes one event and then you understand more about your potential and fears. The first time, you're wary of the dark, but not again after that point. It will be 3am and while most people are asleep, you're pushing through spider webs up a gully trying to find a target in the dark. Changed the way I think when I'm out in the wild, what I pack by default, etc.
  - brailsafe 6y ago
    I'll be getting hair loss ads for a while now, but it looks like a fun activity. I was aware of orienteering as a skill, but not as a sport, and wasn't aware of rogaining at all. Since I'm often up all night anyway and love being in nature during those hours, it sounds like my kind of thing. In the example you mentioned, were you on your own or with a group, and was it an organized event or more of a "do it whenever you can while the markers are set up" kind of thing?
    - prawn 6y ago
peter303 6y ago
That part of Alaska is not serious wilderness by Alaskan standards. It is near vacation homes and hunting lodges a major roads.
- n4tur3away 6y ago
  Well the grand canyon has a small town right next to the south rim, and its own airport. But they still have to rescue several hundred people every summer, even with clean water stations every couple of miles on the most popular trails. On my personal list of "things you should never underestimate", nature and human ignorance are both near the top, just underneath human cruelty. Such is life.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  Interfaces are where events happen. The region is relatively accessible, still remote and undeveloped, and now has lore to draw the curious and underprepared.
jxramos 6y ago
In 1992 the bus was inhabited by 24-year-old adventurer Chris McCandless, who eventually died of starvation. ... The 1940s bus was brought to the remote trail about 60 years ago by a road crew, Mr Walker said. Interesting so the fella didn't bring it, just serendipitously found and inhabited it for the shelter it provided? Did he die in the bus itself?
- catalogia 6y ago
  Yes, his corpse was found in the bus, probably a few weeks after he died.
- prawn 6y ago
  The article and book are worth reading. The book is not particularly long. And/or the movie is fine.
Brian_K_White 6y ago
Won't those same people just get into the same trouble elsewhere? I see no net positive here, and a few net negatives. 1 - History. For better or for worse, it never the less is. 2 - If people do come from all over to see it, then, that means, by definition, it's a thing people want. You're generally supposed to provide what people want, not remove it wherever you find it. 3 - If my zero-sum theory is right, or if the numbers even merely lean that way even if still a little imbalanced, then isn't knowing the where the emergencies will happen ahead of time better than having them happen in unpredictable random places throughout the whole of a place as huge as Alaska? Seems like a dumb response to the, observation. I wouldn't even say "problem", merely observation, unless you could show that the bus actually adds some harm that wouldn't still be there just somewhere else.
- lm28469 6y ago
  > You're generally supposed to provide what people want, not remove it wherever you find it. This is an extremely simplistic view. People very often want things that aren't in their best interest and it end up costing all of us, see alcohol, tobacco and other drugs, not using condoms, not using a helmet while riding a motorcycle, &c. I don't think any government in the world is here to provide whatever people want. And even if you think about it that way you would have to consider all the people actually living there who are fed up of having to rescue lost tourist, which is expensive and potentially dangerous.
herdodoodo 6y ago
Let's pretend his passion was Nascar driving... Christopher McCandless sets off, from California in an old car he rebuilt himself (he replaced the fenders and painted it), on a trip to the Daytona 500. He only gets across the state line when he runs out of fuel because he forgot to fill it up. Instead of simply walking to the nearest gas station or flagging down help he decides to push his car over an embankment and set it on fire. He then proceeds to walk on foot to the nearest car lot (which happens to be in Mexico for some reason, mostly because he burned up his map in the car and he's been taking backroads.) He finds an old bicycle in a garbage dump and uses that. He finally gets to the car lot and buys a fixer-upper for $50. Before leaving the car lot he has to change a tire, which he replaces with the solid rubber donut. He buys fuel and heads off to the Daytona 500 again. Only he's heading deeper into Mexico and eventually ends up broken down in front of, "Autodromo Internacional de la Jolla" due to no water in the radiator. The engine block has seized up. Luckily, there's a race about to start. Christopher...er "Alexander Superspeeder", who changed his name, pays the $125 entry fee for the race. Unfortunately, Alexander Superspeeder doesn't have a race car. He does however have an old bicycle still. He uses the bicycle to race. He makes it only 3 laps before he is too tired to steer straight and veers off into a race car and is killed. Some Jew picks up his story and writes a book about his life and how he followed his dreams. Another Jew makes a movie about it. Armchair racers around the world adore him. The End.
bdz 6y ago
The US Army Survival field manual is one of my favorite book about surviving techniques. It's a long and good read and useful for pretty much everyone https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-05-70.pdf https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-05-70.pdf Also the US Army Basic Cold Weather Manual http://www.survivorlibrary.com/library/army-fm31-70-basic-cold-weather-manual.pdf http://www.survivorlibrary.com/library/army-fm31-70-basic-co...
- ghego1 6y ago
  Cool manuals, thanks for the links!
- doublesCs 6y ago
  > 10-3. Some common misconceptions about poisonous plants are > - "Watch the animals and eat what they eat." Most of the time this statement is true, but some animals can eat plants that are poisonous to humans. > - "Boil the plant in water and any poisons will be removed." Boiling removes many poisons, but not all. > - "Plants with a red color are poisonous." Some plants that are red are poisonous, but not all. > 10-4. The point is there is no one rule to aid in identifying poisonous plants. You must make an effort to learn as much about them as possible. I absolutely love the use of language here. So minimal, so careful, so factual. Thank you for sharing.
k__ 6y ago
I read, that guy died like 20km away from the next village. People from that region where baffled how he got himself killed by not even being remotely in "the wild".
- sinker 6y ago
  What are you on? 20km on foot is a great distance, especially when you're unsure of where you are. And 20km in area is a massive amount of space. When you don't know which direction to go, even a mile is daunting.
  - opportune 6y ago
    The bus is on a trail that leads directly back to the nearest town. And it's an east-west trail, so he would have known to go East.
    - sinker 6y ago
      That's not the reality of it. You can easily get lost even day hiking maintained trails. When you're cutting through brush, have no familiar landmarks things are different. Being lost is a combination of not knowing your location relative to camp and also being disoriented as to which direction you're supposed to go, where you've come from. You're constantly making decisions to travel to avoid trees, difficult elevation, brush which entails changes of direction. The inaccuracies in those decisions can compound. The idea that you can just look at the sun or have nothing but a compass and travel safely and confidently in unknown territory is a myth. It's rarely ever as simple as moving in a straight line.
WheelsAtLarge 6y ago
I have never understood why 'Into The Wild' became such a compelling adventure story. I have always seen it as a story of a troubled young man who pretty much decided to go on a suicide trip. People have made him a hero but I just don't see it. Do people identify with him similar to Holden Caulfield in "The Catcher In The Rye?" Can someone enlighten me?
chriselles 6y ago
I support the removal of the bus. McCandless’s tale is a cautionary one. Monuments to the unprepared shouldn’t be beacons for more of the same to follow. I’m all for freedom, including freedom to fail. But living in an area with regular fatalities due to lack of experience, preparedness, and planning, removing unnecessary beacons is a worthwhile effort.
barrenko 6y ago
He was a heretic in a true sense of the word, and people hate heretics the most.

238 points by arprocter 6y ago

I'm somehow sad reading about it. It was one of my destinations ony my list. This guy inspired my to travel the world. Thanks Alexander Supertramp :)

moate 6y ago
Some unprepared wannabe who got himself killed because of how unprepared he was is your hero? Weird choice. Also, as the great Dr Henry Jones jr. said, “it belongs in a museum!” That thing was responsible for many deaths over the years, and would be better suited as a safe attraction to visit by all the white suburbanites sick of how fake their existence is. Maybe with a plaque stating how many rescue missions had to be sent out because of novices not knowing what they’re doing.
- catalogia 6y ago
  Alaska has the most missing people per capital of any US state, a few times higher than the natural average. Not all of that is attributable to the wilderness, but much of it is. Nature isn't like a Disney movie, but many people don't seem to appreciate that.
  - starpilot 6y ago
    Mandatory YER GONNA DIE posting requirement now satisfied.
  - matwood 6y ago
    As a friend of mine likes to say, "never forget that nature is always trying to kill you."
  - brailsafe 6y ago
    Nature is exactly like a Disney movie. It's incredibly beautiful at times, and tragic in others. Either way, you might end up with an impactful story.
- NotSammyHagar 6y ago
  Makes me sad and happy to see that, cause of changing a tragic story but also good to protect people. It's a 9 hour hike from Healy and the bus location is on Google maps.
- tasuki 6y ago
  He survived for 113 days in the wilderness, not too bad. He was unprepared, yes, but it also seems he knew that what he was doing was risky, and he seems to have been ok taking that risk. I'm not quite sure - why judge him negatively?
  - BelleOfTheBall 6y ago
    A lot of people judge him negatively because of what happened post his death: a non-fiction book about him, a feature film, hundreds of imitators, a cult of "hard survival". This lead to people dying, getting malnourished, government funds being spent on rescuing them. However, he never knew and never will know any of that happened. All he cared about is the journey, how is he possibly responsible for inspiring unprepared people to go into the woods? It's not like he's a still-living lifestyle blogger who goads people into doing this. He's not a hero but he's not deserving of all the flack he gets.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - xenihn 6y ago
    I think I get it. Everyone knows his name, but no one knows the names of people who lived and died trying to rescue people like him.
    - hombre_fatal 6y ago
      Well, don't leave us hanging after suggesting such moral failing with so much contempt. How many people actually die trying to rescue people like him?
      - EdwardDiego 6y ago
        Here's one from my local area - the climbers shouldn't have been up there, the incoming weather was predictable, they thought they could beat it, they didn't, and as a result, a rescuer was killed by an avalanche trying to save them - but they were all killed by avalanches also. https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/90751216/memorial-for-one-of-nzs-worst-alpine-tragedies-to-be-unveiled-in-arthurs-pass https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/90751216/memorial-for...

asdfman123 6y ago

Seems like they could easily put it into a museum. Or just some plot of land in a nearby town with a plaque. Hopefully that's where it ends up.

Nasrudith 6y ago
Yeah a musuem more accessible that explains in detail every rescue attempt resulting from it would be a nice set up, especially when combined with a ranger station or similar public wilderness awareness teaching effort. Let the full scope be told about his life and motivations but also that his fate was totally preventable. It would dramatically change the concept but a home town located musuem would have a full circle effect to it and his life.
_greim_ 6y ago
Or put it in a meadow along some easy trail near Anchorage. Let people hike to it there.
grecy 6y ago
> Or just some plot of land in a nearby town with a plaque. Hopefully that's where it ends up The recreation of the bus used to film the movie is in Healy, AK. It's exactly what you describe. And it looks so similar to the real thing I have a hard time telling them apart.
gscott 6y ago
AirBNB will by it, you can rent it for $500 a night.

kerkeslager 6y ago

One of my friends lived in Healy, Alaska, the nearest town to the bus. He said that a lot of people came to the area trying to relive McCandless' journey. Locals called them "pukers" because they would go into the woods and within a few days of attempting to forage for food, would inevitably eat or drink something contaminated or one of the various mildly poisonous plants in the area, begin vomiting, and give up and return to town (hopefully). I always thought of McCandless' story as a cautionary tale. I don't think it means we should compromise on our ideals, but I do think it means we need to build skills and awareness. There are causes worth dying for, but most of the time dying can and should be avoided.

jdhawk 6y ago
this is the slow version of idiots falling into the grand canyon trying to get a great selfie.
- regulation_d 6y ago
  If you're going to Healy, AK, chances are you're not just doing it for the gram. I remember reading Into The Wild in my twenties and feeling a strong connection to Alex. Even if going to the bus wasn't a wise decision, I feel it's only human to want to cultivate those types of connections. I never went to the bus, but I was definitely curious what Alex was experiencing in the final days of his life. I agree with GP that it's a cautionary tale, but it's more than that. It's caused thousands of people to think more about the way they live their lives. Seems a bit more substantive than simply trying to get a selfie, don't you think?
  - brudgers 6y ago
    To me, a celebrity bus is not more substantive than the Grand Canyon. This would include Furthur if it still existed. YMMV.
    - kerkeslager 6y ago
      I don't think the person you are responding to was saying that a celebrity bus is more substantive than the Grand Canyon. I think they were saying that going to a place because it has meaning for an ideal of breaking dependence on society is more substantive than going to a place so you can take a picture to get attention on the internet. It's not about the place, it's about your reasons for going there. The Grand Canyon is a place with incredible splendor, and I am sure there are people who go there for substantive reasons too.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

scythe 6y ago

I was surprised that a bus needed to be removed because it was dangerous. Apparently you have to cross a river to get to it -- that was killing people. The stories of McCandless's journey suggest that we should consider the psychology of self-harm and suicide when we ask about his motivations. He ignored even the most basic precautions, which considering his education and age should reveal something other than mere stupidity. He seemed to want to put himself at risk of harm -- leaving food behind, refusing assistance from locals, and not even learning to preserve meat, so the animals he killed could not feed him. It seems like his being at constant risk of death by starvation and exposure was not an accident.

cowboysauce 6y ago
I think you're drastically underestimating how stupid and over-confident people can be. He had a college education, but that doesn't teach you the survival skills needed to live in the wilderness. McCandless spent a few years bumming around the United states before traveling to Alaska which likely gave him a false sense of security in his survival abilities. Most people living in western nations have no idea of how unforgiving the wilderness can be, nor do they understand the amount of effort that it can take to survive. The amount of tourists who think that national parks are just the outdoor equivalent of Disney Land is shocking.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  > He had a college education, but that doesn't teach you the survival skills needed to live in the wilderness. I can vouch for that. I don't even know how to set a snare or how to prepare a rabbit if I caught one.
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
    The "SAS Survival Handbook" of the late 80s-early 90s by Lofty Wiseman is calling your name...
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  The book made it clear that during his few years bumming around, he made plenty of mistakes too. Luckily, then, he had other people around to bail him out.

grecy 6y ago

In the summer of 2009, at the beginning of my first massive expedition from Alaska to Argentina, I hiked into the bus and spent a night in what turned out to be the most intense and peaceful place I've ever spent time. Reading the exhilarating stories in the guest book was like nothing I've ever experienced, and I was awe-struck that one person can inspire so many with his big smile and simple approach to life. Over the years I've spent hundreds of hours thinking about Chris, his conscious choice to live the life he wanted and the freedom that brought him. He is one of my biggest inspirations, and I like to think we would have been friends. Every time the sound track from the movie comes on I get tingles down my spine, and I can't help but sing along. It's easily the most-listened to music of my life, and in a strange way it's the sound track to my life. I have mixed emotions about the removal of the bus - on one hand I understand the need to stop people visiting who require rescue, while on the other I'm sad I never made a return trip. I had always planned a solo winter trip, and somehow while living only ten hours away for four years I never made the effort. Yet another reason to always go for it, right now. Although the bus is no longer there, I'm sure I'll make a trek to the spot anyway, and I'm sure Chris will continue to inspire me throughout my life. "Happiness is only real when shared" - Chris McCandless Here's my account of my hike into the bus in 2009 http://theroadchoseme.com/the-magic-bus http://theroadchoseme.com/the-magic-bus

ethagnawl 6y ago
> Every time the sound track from the movie comes on I get tingles down my spine ... I don't think I've heard any of those songs since I saw the movie when it was in theaters, but you've reminded me how much they've stuck with me. Eddie Vedder's vocals are so raw and vulnerable and there couldn't have been a better choice. I'm going to listen to the soundtrack this afternoon -- thanks for the reminder. I'm also looking forward to reading your travelogue.
topherPedersen 6y ago
Wild!
hombre_fatal 6y ago
What a great resource, your website. While he doesn't have much in common with Chris, I was inspired at an identity level when I first read Rolf Potts' Vagabonding as a teen and other pieces of his work like https://rolfpotts.com/storming-the-beach/ https://rolfpotts.com/storming-the-beach/.

EL_Loco 6y ago

There's an interesting piece called "Chris McCandless from an Alaska Park Ranger’s Perspective" http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity/2006/Peter_Christian_Response.pdf http://nmge.gmu.edu/textandcommunity/2006/Peter_Christian_Re... "Some like McCandless, show up in Alaska, unprepared, unskilled and unwilling to take the time to learn the skills they need to be successful. These quickly get in trouble and either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of government money on helicopters and overtime. When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did wasn’t even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic and inconsiderate. First off, he spent very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail without even a map of the area. If he had a good map he could have walked out of his predicament using one of several routes that could have been successful."

grecy 6y ago
These kind of hyperbolic statements don't do much to educate, they're over sensationalized. > These quickly get in trouble and either die by bears, by drowning, by freezing or they are rescued by park rangers or other rescue personnel–but often, not before risking their lives and/or spending a lot of government money on helicopters and overtime Since 1992, only two people have died trying to reach the bus, they both drowned in the Tek (which was hard for me to cross, at 6 foot 2 and 185 lbs). One in 2010, and one last year. As for the number of rescues: "The state carried out 15 bus-related search and rescue operations between 2009 and 2017, authorities say" [1] [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53106441 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53106441 For what it's worth, I lived in the Yukon for 4 years. I've been bison hunting at -45C, I've spent months hunting, hiking and fishing all over the Yukon and a ton of time in Alaska too. I know what it takes.
- catalogia 6y ago
  That quote is not referring exclusively to people who try to reach the bus and there's nothing hyperbolic about it. Alaska State Troopers conduct several hundred search and rescue missions each year (https://dps.alaska.gov/AST/SAR/Home https://dps.alaska.gov/AST/SAR/Home), that number probably goes up when you include federal and state park rangers as well.

topherPedersen 6y ago

That makes sense to move the bus actually. Christopher McCandless died there, so why would the tourist fare any better? Sort of sad to see them move the bus, but it's probably the right thing to do. Would be nice to see them move it to a safer location that people can still visit.

duxup 6y ago
>so why would the tourist fare any better? The sad part is even a little preparation and caution would save most of them. That area isn't particularly dangerous or impossible to escape. McCandless just didn't prepare much at all, he could have potentially gotten out / help, had he bothered to know about his surroundings / or prepared. The scale of dangers and etc can be hard for folks to understand who aren't ready... but that area / situation was hardly notably dangerous.

TimesOldRoman 6y ago

If we were to do a New Deal-type shift away from the military industrial complex, could the National Guard be pointed at cleaning up "litter" like this? Corps of Engineer-type work being pointed at infrastructure cleanup, which includes cultivating and caring for natural resources, seems like a fantastic use of tax dollars.

KenanSulayman 6y ago
It was the Alaskan National Guard who removed the bus. [1] [1] https://www.dvidshub.net/news/372418/alaska-national-guard-airlifts-into-wild-bus-stampede-trail https://www.dvidshub.net/news/372418/alaska-national-guard-a...
mikecoles 6y ago
No. Stupid people with stupid ideas should be charged with cleaning up the litter. There's no reason to waste money on a "New Deal".

brailsafe 6y ago

Into the Wild certainly inspired me to increase my exposure to the wilderness, on top of many years watching Survivorman. I only grew up car camping, so it's a slowish process of acquiring the necessary skills through longer and more challenging summit day hikes in coastal BC, and soon multi-day backpacking as I aquire necessary gear. I was never particularly taken by the transactional feedback loop of life, and I think the McCandless story sort of re-affirmed that in some way. The only things I've done that approximate his path were a few long and short term trips that I've taken with no real plan, nowhere to be, and no place or time to be back. It's not for everyone, but you build a lot more confidence if yiu can make it through.

prawn 6y ago
Not sure if the sport has much of a presence near you, but look out for "rogaining". It's basically orienteering without the fixed course: you're given a contour map with targets worth varying values, and given a timeframe to gain the highest tally and return home. Events are typically 3-24 hours. Something that was a milestone for me was my first 24 hour rogaine in rugged Australian bush. You are out walking all night by light of headlamps and moon. It only takes one event and then you understand more about your potential and fears. The first time, you're wary of the dark, but not again after that point. It will be 3am and while most people are asleep, you're pushing through spider webs up a gully trying to find a target in the dark. Changed the way I think when I'm out in the wild, what I pack by default, etc.
- brailsafe 6y ago
  I'll be getting hair loss ads for a while now, but it looks like a fun activity. I was aware of orienteering as a skill, but not as a sport, and wasn't aware of rogaining at all. Since I'm often up all night anyway and love being in nature during those hours, it sounds like my kind of thing. In the example you mentioned, were you on your own or with a group, and was it an organized event or more of a "do it whenever you can while the markers are set up" kind of thing?
  - prawn 6y ago

peter303 6y ago

That part of Alaska is not serious wilderness by Alaskan standards. It is near vacation homes and hunting lodges a major roads.

n4tur3away 6y ago
Well the grand canyon has a small town right next to the south rim, and its own airport. But they still have to rescue several hundred people every summer, even with clean water stations every couple of miles on the most popular trails. On my personal list of "things you should never underestimate", nature and human ignorance are both near the top, just underneath human cruelty. Such is life.
dredmorbius 6y ago
Interfaces are where events happen. The region is relatively accessible, still remote and undeveloped, and now has lore to draw the curious and underprepared.

jxramos 6y ago

In 1992 the bus was inhabited by 24-year-old adventurer Chris McCandless, who eventually died of starvation. ... The 1940s bus was brought to the remote trail about 60 years ago by a road crew, Mr Walker said. Interesting so the fella didn't bring it, just serendipitously found and inhabited it for the shelter it provided? Did he die in the bus itself?

catalogia 6y ago
Yes, his corpse was found in the bus, probably a few weeks after he died.
prawn 6y ago
The article and book are worth reading. The book is not particularly long. And/or the movie is fine.

Brian_K_White 6y ago

Won't those same people just get into the same trouble elsewhere? I see no net positive here, and a few net negatives. 1 - History. For better or for worse, it never the less is. 2 - If people do come from all over to see it, then, that means, by definition, it's a thing people want. You're generally supposed to provide what people want, not remove it wherever you find it. 3 - If my zero-sum theory is right, or if the numbers even merely lean that way even if still a little imbalanced, then isn't knowing the where the emergencies will happen ahead of time better than having them happen in unpredictable random places throughout the whole of a place as huge as Alaska? Seems like a dumb response to the, observation. I wouldn't even say "problem", merely observation, unless you could show that the bus actually adds some harm that wouldn't still be there just somewhere else.

lm28469 6y ago
> You're generally supposed to provide what people want, not remove it wherever you find it. This is an extremely simplistic view. People very often want things that aren't in their best interest and it end up costing all of us, see alcohol, tobacco and other drugs, not using condoms, not using a helmet while riding a motorcycle, &c. I don't think any government in the world is here to provide whatever people want. And even if you think about it that way you would have to consider all the people actually living there who are fed up of having to rescue lost tourist, which is expensive and potentially dangerous.

herdodoodo 6y ago

Let's pretend his passion was Nascar driving... Christopher McCandless sets off, from California in an old car he rebuilt himself (he replaced the fenders and painted it), on a trip to the Daytona 500. He only gets across the state line when he runs out of fuel because he forgot to fill it up. Instead of simply walking to the nearest gas station or flagging down help he decides to push his car over an embankment and set it on fire. He then proceeds to walk on foot to the nearest car lot (which happens to be in Mexico for some reason, mostly because he burned up his map in the car and he's been taking backroads.) He finds an old bicycle in a garbage dump and uses that. He finally gets to the car lot and buys a fixer-upper for $50. Before leaving the car lot he has to change a tire, which he replaces with the solid rubber donut. He buys fuel and heads off to the Daytona 500 again. Only he's heading deeper into Mexico and eventually ends up broken down in front of, "Autodromo Internacional de la Jolla" due to no water in the radiator. The engine block has seized up. Luckily, there's a race about to start. Christopher...er "Alexander Superspeeder", who changed his name, pays the $125 entry fee for the race. Unfortunately, Alexander Superspeeder doesn't have a race car. He does however have an old bicycle still. He uses the bicycle to race. He makes it only 3 laps before he is too tired to steer straight and veers off into a race car and is killed. Some Jew picks up his story and writes a book about his life and how he followed his dreams. Another Jew makes a movie about it. Armchair racers around the world adore him. The End.

bdz 6y ago

The US Army Survival field manual is one of my favorite book about surviving techniques. It's a long and good read and useful for pretty much everyone https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-05-70.pdf https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-05-70.pdf Also the US Army Basic Cold Weather Manual http://www.survivorlibrary.com/library/army-fm31-70-basic-cold-weather-manual.pdf http://www.survivorlibrary.com/library/army-fm31-70-basic-co...

ghego1 6y ago
Cool manuals, thanks for the links!
doublesCs 6y ago
> 10-3. Some common misconceptions about poisonous plants are > - "Watch the animals and eat what they eat." Most of the time this statement is true, but some animals can eat plants that are poisonous to humans. > - "Boil the plant in water and any poisons will be removed." Boiling removes many poisons, but not all. > - "Plants with a red color are poisonous." Some plants that are red are poisonous, but not all. > 10-4. The point is there is no one rule to aid in identifying poisonous plants. You must make an effort to learn as much about them as possible. I absolutely love the use of language here. So minimal, so careful, so factual. Thank you for sharing.

k__ 6y ago

I read, that guy died like 20km away from the next village. People from that region where baffled how he got himself killed by not even being remotely in "the wild".

sinker 6y ago
What are you on? 20km on foot is a great distance, especially when you're unsure of where you are. And 20km in area is a massive amount of space. When you don't know which direction to go, even a mile is daunting.
- opportune 6y ago
  The bus is on a trail that leads directly back to the nearest town. And it's an east-west trail, so he would have known to go East.
  - sinker 6y ago
    That's not the reality of it. You can easily get lost even day hiking maintained trails. When you're cutting through brush, have no familiar landmarks things are different. Being lost is a combination of not knowing your location relative to camp and also being disoriented as to which direction you're supposed to go, where you've come from. You're constantly making decisions to travel to avoid trees, difficult elevation, brush which entails changes of direction. The inaccuracies in those decisions can compound. The idea that you can just look at the sun or have nothing but a compass and travel safely and confidently in unknown territory is a myth. It's rarely ever as simple as moving in a straight line.

WheelsAtLarge 6y ago

I have never understood why 'Into The Wild' became such a compelling adventure story. I have always seen it as a story of a troubled young man who pretty much decided to go on a suicide trip. People have made him a hero but I just don't see it. Do people identify with him similar to Holden Caulfield in "The Catcher In The Rye?" Can someone enlighten me?

chriselles 6y ago

I support the removal of the bus. McCandless’s tale is a cautionary one. Monuments to the unprepared shouldn’t be beacons for more of the same to follow. I’m all for freedom, including freedom to fail. But living in an area with regular fatalities due to lack of experience, preparedness, and planning, removing unnecessary beacons is a worthwhile effort.

barrenko 6y ago

He was a heretic in a true sense of the word, and people hate heretics the most.