23 ms·

DEA authorized to conduct surveillance on protestors

599 points by codezero 6y ago

jimbob45 6y ago
Before it gets asked... >The DEA is limited by statute to enforcing drug related federal crimes. But on Sunday, Timothy Shea, a former US Attorney and close confidant of Barr who was named acting administrator of the DEA last month, received approval from Associate Deputy Attorney General G. Bradley Weinsheimer to go beyond the agency’s mandate “to perform other law enforcement duties” that Barr may “deem appropriate.”
- mysterydip 6y ago
  ah the old catchall "other duties," often used to abuse employees into doing work outside of their employed scope which would have been a higher pay grade if it were part of the job description.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure they are only too happy to buat riot organizers (as distinct from protesters).
    - mysterydip 6y ago
      I was referring more to other jobs such as IT Helpdesk (who also has to do server or network admin because it's "other duties as assigned" after they're hired) and the like
- pyrophane 6y ago
  I wonder if there is a specific loophole they are exploiting here or if they are simply ignoring the law because they can.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    There is no law that forces them not to work on other areas. It is just an administrative division.
    - wool_gather 6y ago
      The comment at the top of the thread disagrees with that; it says there is a statute that applies.
- pfundstein 6y ago
  How can we repair a system that's been systematically corrupted over several years? As a systems engineer my instinct is to rebuild the system from the ground up. If only politics was that simple.
  - lallysingh 6y ago
    An omnibus law of restrictions on law enforcement.
  - TehCorwiz 6y ago
    I hear the French did that once with great success. Took a while though.
    - grawprog 6y ago
      And cost a lot of heads.
    - GrinningFool 6y ago
      I hear it was rough on headcount.
    - kgin 6y ago
      Violent revolutions aren’t great when the ruling system is a democracy. By definition it’s going against the will of “the people”
      - projektfu 6y ago
        With gerrymandering, the non-proportional Senate, and the Electoral College system, it might be a stretch to call the US federal government a democracy. Something like it, but not exactly.
        kgin 6y ago
        I would be down for a revolution against gerrymandering.
- gbrown 6y ago
  This is so completely fucked. I always worry about sounding hyperbolic, but I really do wonder these days if we’re living through the last days of the American republic.
  - wetmore 6y ago
    I feel the same way a lot recently and I would love for someone to tell me why I'm wrong.
    - jedieaston 6y ago
      Because every other country in the world has a vested interest in keeping the USD stable as a currency, which would mean that they'd help keep the country up if needed (whether it's good or not that a civil revolt is extremely difficult here is up to you). The entire world's economy, as well as many countries political configurations, rely on the United States existing. I doubt it's going anywhere, but hopefully reform might actually happen this time.
      - ardy42 6y ago
        >>> This is so completely fucked. I always worry about sounding hyperbolic, but I really do wonder these days if we’re living through the last days of the American republic. >> I feel the same way a lot recently and I would love for someone to tell me why I'm wrong. > Because every other country in the world has a vested interest in keeping the USD stable as a currency, which would mean that they'd help keep the country up if needed You're answering the wrong question. The American republic isn't primarily an economic system, it's a political and social one. It can become completely fucked in so many ways without disrupting the currency too badly too quickly. I know it will be little consolation to me to have the currency remain stable while things descend into pseudo-democratic authoritarianism.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
- refurb 6y ago
  Does it really matter? Whether it's the FBI or the DEA on the street arresting people, does it make a difference? They are both federal law enforcement and both are held to similar standards.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Great. One step closer to ending the war on drugs and re-deploying DEA resources toward crimes that hurt people.
  - dionian 6y ago
    right? im not sure why everyone is against the DEA focusing on more pressing issues
- sitkack 6y ago
  To task the DEA with this action is a direct affront to everything the movement asks for. The war on drugs was a direction action against blacks, to task the DEA with oversight in response to the murder by racist cops is to both acknowledge and turn down any complaint that we may have had.
- slim 6y ago
  man, if your constitution does not protect you from this, you have to change it. ours certainly does (Tunisia). executive can't simply give orders to restrict liberties without a proper law voted by the parliament.
  - chasd00 6y ago
    Did everyone forget what just happened with the pandemic? There are no rights anymore.
- sterlind 6y ago
  21 USC section 878(a)(5) is what allows the AG to deputize the DEA like that. It's fascinating, seeing the lawful mechanisms of executive overreach in play. Horrifying, but fascinating!
ineedasername 6y ago
At the same time that this administration decries the overreach by other government law enforcement bodies such as the FBI.
- beepboopbeep 6y ago
  There is no credibility to this administrations statements, only its actions.
- abootstrapper 6y ago
  That’s because the FBI was investigating them and their buddies. For Trump it’s not about principles, it’s about power and what they can get away with.
  - sarcasmatwork 6y ago
    Stop spreading lies. Everything you said was wrong. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2020/04/30/confirmed-the-fbi-always-intended-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-n2567430 https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2020/04/30/confirmed...
    - dagnabbit 6y ago
      Stop spreading lies. Trump only got caught because the FBI was spying on Russians when his people approached the Russians asking for their help to subvert American democracy. But I also get that you're a far-right extremist who despises democracy, and who thinks that using a hyper-partisan publisher who doesn't care about facts is a real source. So your brain worms have combined with your hatred of America to destroy you.
  - bduerst 6y ago
    "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." -Frank Wilhoit
r00fus 6y ago
This is the thin edge to a national police action. Crazy how little oversight there is over the executive branch (and this administration in particular).
- paxys 6y ago
  The entire "checks and balances" system breaks down when a handful of Republicans in the Senate are complicit in everything that is going on.
  - microcolonel 6y ago
    > ...system breaks down when a handful of Republicans... Sorry to burst your bubble, but it isn't just Republicans who resort to... creative executive strategies that are worth criticizing.
    - malnourish 6y ago
      I'm sorry, but "both sides" arguments are nothing but a deflection.
      - arminiusreturns 6y ago
        No, it really isn't, because in the end the oligarchs own both sides, full fucking stop. You can argue about the degree of harm, but almost always that approach is used to argue the degree of harm selectively about one particular partisan angle, and it's frankly bullshit. Obama just put on a nice face and was eloquent while he expanded the surveillance engine, the drone wars, the arms shipments to unstable third world countries, bailouts for billionaires, etc. Trump is brazen and up front about it, but the end result is still the same bullshit! Cops sending agent provocateurs in to justify kettling protestors happened under Obama too. That doesn't justify it in the Trump era either though! So tired of hearing this trite and cliched response anytime someone brings up that the corruption permeates the entirety of the policy elite establishment. The DNC and RNC (both corporations, never mentioned in the constitution) would rather work together in collusion than allow any real change to happen (as they did in the early 90s to control the debates), and until people wake up to the fact they won't be able to understand why nothing is changing. It just becomes a pendulum swing back and forth every few years while the inverted totalitarian kleptocratic oligarchic corporatists retain power in the shadows. Lets just spit some real facts here. Blackmail operations such as Epstein was at the front of, are a core part of how this has happened. He is a great example of how the corruption knows no party lines, but that's also why he was taken out, the story buried and convoluted, and half-assed coverup stories like netflix's latest doc are put out. The greatest thing the oligarchy fears is a united people... and the ol party lines and any other divide they can drum up is good at keeping us at each others throats instead of theirs. It's time to wake up and break out of the cycle. Or not. If not, we are Rome headed for a mighty and bloody collapse of epic proportions. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Top down compromise of a centralized system becomes increasingly trivial the further the compromise progresses.
29athrowaway 6y ago
"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." John Ehrlichman, counsel and Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs for Nixon, ca. 1968
- ghufran_syed 6y ago
  Relevant context and citation: “ Ehrlichman died in 1999, but his five children in questioned the veracity of the account. "We never saw or heard anything from our dad, John Ehrlichman, that was derogatory about any person of color," wrote Peter Ehrlichman, Tom Ehrlichman, Jan Ehrlichman, Michael Ehrlichman and Jody E. Pineda in a statement provided to CNN. "The 1994 alleged 'quote' we saw repeated in social media for the first time today does not square with what we know of our father. And collectively, that spans over 185 years of time with him," the Ehrlichman family wrote. "We do not subscribe to the alleged racist point of view that this writer now implies 22 years following the so-called interview of John and 16 years following our father's death, when dad can no longer respond. None of us have raised our kids that way, and that's because we were not raised that way." Ehrlichman's comments did not surface until now after Baum remembered them while going back through old notes for the Harper's story. Baum said he had no reason to believe Ehrlichman was being dishonest and viewed them as "atonement" from a man long after his tumultuous run in the White House ended. Baum interviewed Ehrlichman and others for his 1996 book "Smoke and Mirrors," but said he left out the Ehrlichman comment from the book because it did not fit the narrative style focused on putting the readers in the middle of the backroom discussions themselves, without input from the author.“ So the author heard the quote in 1996 but didn’t “remember” them until around 20 years later - you can decide for yourself whether that seems credible, and whether any writer wouldn’t use such a quote at the time for “stylistic” reasons. https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-rich...
hirundo 6y ago
"The DEA is limited by statute to enforcing drug related federal crimes." Barely an inconvenience.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  What statute?
  - testbot123 6y ago
    28 CFR § 0.100: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/0.100 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/0.100
- monadic2 6y ago
  They just need to sprinkle a little crack before making the arrest.
  - oldsklgdfth 6y ago
    I'm waiting for when "sprinkle a little covid on dead people" becomes a thing.
billme 6y ago
>> “In August 2013, a report by Reuters revealed that the Special Operations Division (SOD) of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration advises DEA agents to practice parallel construction when creating criminal cases against Americans that are based on NSA warrantless surveillance.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction#By_the_United_States_Drug_Enforcement_Administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction#By_the_U...
- koheripbal 6y ago
  How is this relevant to this article? Parallel construction can occur from any justice department org.
  - testbot123 6y ago
    Because the DEA has a special unit for it: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dea-sod/exclusive-u-s-directs-agents-to-cover-up-program-used-to-investigate-americans-idUSBRE97409R20130805 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dea-sod/exclusive-u-s-dir...
- koheripbal 6y ago
  I think a lot folks are overlooking that there are indeed some concerning instigators in some of the crowds, trying to escalate violence. I found this list of supporting videos... https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gvmhh6/fbi_is_currently_taking_evidence_of_violent/fsqq446/ https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gvmhh6/fbi_...
ryandrake 6y ago
Hmm... If they want to stop rioting and looting, why are they going after "protestors" rather than the rioters and looters? Someone's torching a mall? No police in sight. People are walking and chanting in the street? That calls for a crowd of 1000 police fully decked out in military gear and tear gas, itching to crush heads.
- tehwebguy 6y ago
  They don't care about rioting or looting. Watch how the police have been arranged, in Los Angeles at least. They are there to make the protest seem dangerous, while intentionally allowing looting to go on 2 streets over. The idea is to allow scary looking but ultimately meaningless damage to occur while blaming it on protestors.
  - pfisch 6y ago
    That is just not true. Lapd was not prepared to handle the changes in technology since 1992 and the roving bands of organized looters. They adjusted their strategy drastically on Monday and caught easily hundreds of looters on live tv. Their response times were under 5 minutes and they boxed in an entire caravan of looters at one point and caught them all. There has been basically no looting today at all so far.
  - pasquinelli 6y ago
    The respond to peaceful protests with violence, which causes rioting, which leads to more power and money for police.
vsareto 6y ago
It says for fourteen days. Can you open an very wide investigation and keep it ongoing for longer than that?
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  You can collect a lot of data that will have value long after the window is closed.
dnsprovider 6y ago
Palantir has contracts with these agencies. So you've got Facebook board members, and probably Mark Zuckerberg, profiting from this chaos. Are you guys figuring out the game yet?
- bigyikes 6y ago
  Curious: what is Zuck’s relation to Palantir?
  - SauciestGNU 6y ago
    Peter Thiel serving on the board of both Facebook and palantir.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
FriendlyNormie 6y ago
Hahaha all your salty tears make my dick SO hard. Eat shit and die commie faggots.
eli 6y ago
Is there an easy way to detect fake cell towers? A rooted android maybe? Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re using Stingrays and it would be fun to catch one in the wild.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  There's already apps for it. You need root if you want to actually be able to avoid the suspicious towers.
  - r00fus 6y ago
    Most previous versions of iOS are rootable - easy on an older phone that can't be updated.
- snazz 6y ago
  There've been reports that the Minneapolis Police Department has used Stingrays. Apparently there are some phones that can detect it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker#Countermeasures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker#Counter...
- gen3 6y ago
  You don’t need to be rooted for basic searching. Back when I ran android I found an app that would alert when you connect to a tower not in the database. I think it was called AIMSICD but it’s been a while. I think you would need to deploy more advanced techniques to be sure though.
- VistaBrokeMyPC 6y ago
  I use an app called cellular z. Never caught a stingray in the wild, but it's easy to see if a tower "moves" with it.
themodelplumber 6y ago
I wish we had more opportunities to learn about and highlight the kind of tech that could change or strongly affect this sort of narrative. Tech isn't always the answer, but here we are on HN reading about a frustrating issue, a bunch of spinning wheels in a sense, and we're good at tech as a group. I don't even know what it would look like, but currently the typical HN community response to this stuff is hyper-perceptive. From "here we go" to "here's what the article says". This alone is far too limited (we're not just here with our popcorn; we want to _do_) and it creates a pattern that can eventually shut out such news because no traction can be gained--what's the point. IMO we can build communications environments and frameworks that empower ourselves and others to take creative action, even of the sociopolitical type. And if we can't build 'em, we can share and promote the news. (Some of you are already doing this--thank you, please keep sharing your work)
- Thorentis 6y ago
  What exactly do you want to empower people to do? Loot Louis Vuitton and Walmart in the name of stopping police brutality? This violence isn't good for anybody and needs to stop.
  - themodelplumber 6y ago
    If that's where your thoughts are going, maybe I can't help you much; anyway here's something to consider: I'd prefer to keep the outcomes open to all kinds of win-win possibilities. Assuming that those outcomes must involve looting does both of us a disservice. You can do better here. Maybe just leave it at that first sentence?
  - monadic2 6y ago
    Well, to be able to spot propaganda like the variety you’re spouting right now would be a decent start. I’m not even sure where to begin worrying about the assets of WALMART AND LOUIS VITTON of all stores over the needs and apparent rage of the local community.
    - barnesto 6y ago
sgnelson 6y ago
Barr is one of the most dangerous AG's this country has ever had. He believes in extreme executive power. That "secularism" is evil and the downfall of this country. Worst of all imo, is that he believes that the law enforcement of the federal government is there solely to serve the president. Somehow he still calls himself a conservative.
- BLKNSLVR 6y ago
  All of the "conservatives" that come to mind for me, those that have their opinions spread across various news, sound like they fit fairly tightly into the shape you've described for Barr. At best they're apologists for the policies of the conservatives in power, at worst they decry the inability for the conservatives in power to really make change due to the cowardly, soft, obstructionist, lefty, socialist opposition. But I tend towards the cowardly, soft, obstructionist, lefty, socialist side, so maybe that's just what all conservatives sound like to me.
- threatofrain 6y ago
  Secularism (the sharing of religious space in a pluralistic society) is not a particularly unifying perspective among American Christians so it's not very surprising. For American Christians, secularism is a fancy word for "forfeit the power in your hands."
- newacct583 6y ago
  > Somehow he still calls himself a conservative. As opposed to all the other conservative AG's and administration figures throughout history, right? I mean, clearly the Bush administration didn't preside over any sweeping expansions of executive law enforcement authority, right? And the Regan-era "war on drugs" was clearly an outlier... This is the most truly scottish of true scotsman arguments. It comes up every time someone reaches a breaking point where they can't apologize for a republican administration. And the best they can come up with is that somehow they aren't "conservative".
arkadiyt 6y ago
Via Kim Zetter: > If you're wondering why DEA and US Marshal's Service have been given authority to conduct covert surveillance of protestors, it's likely because they have planes outfitted with Dirtboxes - powerful stingray devices that collect data on phones from the air https://twitter.com/KimZetter/status/1267969704259280896 https://twitter.com/KimZetter/status/1267969704259280896
- kevinmchugh 6y ago
  This may explain why the DEA, but not why protestors, as opposed to looters
  - mkgolden 6y ago
    Maybe it is because protesters are more of a threat to those in power than looters
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      Of course, most of the looters are undercover cops anyway.
      - croissants 6y ago
        Most? I've seen hundreds of people looting in my neighborhood. Most of them aren't even adults, let alone cops.
      - jhloa2 6y ago
        Yeah this just isn't true. I'm sure that there's been some false flag attacks but to say that most of the looters are undercover cops is asinine.
  - makomk 6y ago
    Because putting "protestors" in the title fits Buzzfeed's narrative better than "looters"? The stated purpose is to allow the DEA to investigate crimes such as looting, arson etc committed under cover of the protests.
naveen99 6y ago
I doubt they really care to stop or punish retail looting. Probably just testing / practicing their ability to detect more serious terrorism. I hope...
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  I admire your optimism. I don’t think you’re right, but I admire it.
  - naveen99 6y ago
    Imagine a virtual protest over zoom where people loot copyrighted media by sharing it with fellow protesters... kind of like a civil disobedience Napster / scihub thing. Bill Gates, and the RIAA and MPAA and the publishers would historically be horrified, but given the transient, justifiable protest, their political message would be accepting. the DEA and NSA would want in again, not because they care to stop retail piracy (free advertising), but corporate espionage and tax evasion by people who have a lot of money.
mnm1 6y ago
Good to see that any pretense that the drug war was not just another way to enslave minorities and other undesirables is gone with the current government. Now they're bringing in the veteran warriors who have deep experience suppressing the aforementioned. A more hostile and unnecessary police force than the DEA doesn't exist.
readhn 6y ago
In Soviet union it was KGB and their black Volga's coming in the early morning hours to pick up the "inconvenient" ones. Early morning hours were picked because there were not many witnesses around. How far away from KGB are any of these 3 letter angencies? DEA, FBI, CIA, NSA...?
Krasnol 6y ago
It's interesting how the USA is becoming again a Brzezinski Experiment State. This time it's all the new fancy tech combined with the military on home soil and a mad head of state. Did anyone spot those fancy microwave crowd control stuff yet?
- crocodiletears 6y ago
  Can you expand upon that? I'm unfamiliar with the context behind 'Brzezinski Experiment State'.
  - jacobush 6y ago
    I can only imagine it’s some kind of reference to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission and their disdain for excess of democracy.
  - Krasnol 6y ago
    It was a common phrase of Brzezinski during the Cold War era to describe the Soviet Union (or East Block countries) as "Communist Experiments" (vs. USA as the Proto-Capitalist Experiment country). I'm not sure if he'd did that in the english version of his books though. One of his German ones is called: "Das gescheiterte Experiment: Der Untergang des kommunistischen Systems" (The failed experiment: the fall of the communist system".
    - crocodiletears 6y ago
      Ah, thanks!
a4wtaw4tawtawt 6y ago
it's very sad that taking advantage of protesting to commit domestic terrorism is so accepted by the left. glad we have an administration that will stomp this out. when i ask myself why i no longer vote dem it's hilarious i ever did in the first place. grow up kiddos.
readhn 6y ago
Surveillance of protesters: Student leaders were put under close surveillance by the authorities, traffic cameras were used to perform surveillance on the square and the restaurants in the nearby area and where students gathered were wiretapped.[108] This surveillance led to the identification, capture and punishment of participants of the protest.[109] After the massacre, the government did thorough interrogations at work units, institutions and schools to identify who had been at the protest.[110] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests#Surveillance_of_protesters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests...
- tempodox 6y ago
  Clearly Trump and his accomplices are huge fans and admirers of Chinese methods. And they've only just started.
xamuel 6y ago
Nothing better captures systemic, institutional, hidden racism than the war on drugs. Why oh why can't we end that already!
- tempodox 6y ago
  I don't find that systemic, institutional racism very much hidden.
monadic2 6y ago
Parallel construction in effect! If you’re going to a protest, for the love of god bring a prepaid phone.
trfhuhg 6y ago
Many comments here assuming that we can get out of this hole we've fallen into by changing laws or replacing the administration. Perhaps things are falling apart because of the massive influx of underdeveloped evil egos: they've got a supermajority mostly everywhere and can ignore the few good people. This is what some Hindi manuscripts mean by kali-uga - the dark age. With this skeptical view in mind, there isn't much we can do to reverse the flow. It's a flood and we can do our part to minimize the damage, but ultimately we have to wait when the weather changes.
- troughway 6y ago
  I remember seeing "kali uga" somewhere, but it's not pretty, and unfortunately, still somewhat relevant today given this whole thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lightning_and_the_Sun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lightning_and_the_Sun
  - sdhrnrhbrt 6y ago
    "Yuga" is a large timespan in a human civilization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga.
- pasquinelli 6y ago
  There aren't that many people with power. We can only assume these underdeveloped evil egos have a supermajority within a group of a few thousand. Numerically, that's not an unmanagable problem, supposing it's the case.
  - trfhuhg 6y ago
    It's apparently enough to have just a few people with visible power. I'm just saying, the reason we see so much snow everywhere is because it's the winter of the human civilization. And no, the winter won't end because some good minded folks issued a decree that from now on its summer.
- Buttons840 6y ago
  What is an "underdeveloped evil ego"?
seesawtron 6y ago
There was a post on Reddit where a guy found dozens of cameras hidden on poles that he could access with their IP addresses in browser and even control directly and get live feed into people's homes. Some of those said "Property of DEA". Eventually hundreds of people started accessing with the ip addresses that were listed by the OP and the feed was cut off. [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy_commons/comments/gin79z/i_made_an_alt_because_this_is_sketchy_so_i_can/ https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy_commons/comments/gin79z/...
- 01100011 6y ago
  We knew years ago that the DEA has cameras all over the place. They do things like hide them in traffic control devices and read license plates with them. They analyze the traffic to look for drug mules and pass off tips to local police so they can execute parallel construction and hide the real source of the evidence. We all talked about it and, like most big brother shit, no one cared and we all moved on. Glad the kids are rediscovering it. https://qz.com/1458475/the-dea-and-ice-are-hiding-surveillance-cameras-in-streetlights/ https://qz.com/1458475/the-dea-and-ice-are-hiding-surveillan... https://reason.com/2012/07/11/dea-quietly-builds-its-network-of-licens/ https://reason.com/2012/07/11/dea-quietly-builds-its-network...
- mkl 6y ago
  Discussed here at the time too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23167592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23167592
- 650REDHAIR 6y ago
  Some of those links are still active even after being outed more than 3 weeks ago.
Ididntdothis 6y ago
I am starting to wonder if this is what it means to run "government like a business". Corporations are basically authoritarian dictatorships that don't tolerate dissent or only within a narrow range and it seems that government is run the same way.
adamsea 6y ago
So with the DEA spying on Twitter what messaging apps are truly secure these days for the organizers of the peaceful protests to use?
anm89 6y ago
I think this has more profound history and consequences than people realize. The DEA for a long time has been slowly transforming into this catch all military/police/spy/logistics/legal/intelligence/technical agency. It picks up little bits of responsibility and capability here and there that enable it to do some function in a drug case. But because the funding of drug law enforcement is so crucial for so many government functions in direct and indirect ways, and because individuals in a position often benefit from an increase in scope the pressure is always towards scope creep, to saying yes when permission for more power is asked. So the DEA has organically expanded and expanded and expanded and the more this is accepted the easier it is for it to creep further and further until it starts to resemble something totally different than how it would have originally been envisioned. On the other side of this you get someone like Trump, who is looking for tools he can use that have limited restrictions on their powers and a wide scope of arenas in which they can be deployed, and the DEA is an obvious choice. An you end up with a very dangerous combo of a person who is looking for as much power as he can grab onto and this entity which is incredibly efficient and capturing scope and power within our current system and therefore extremely ripe for abuse. This is a great argument for strictly defining the scope of these alphabet soup agencies upfront and making the process to change those scopes very restrictive. Unfortunately we've chosen the exact opposite path.
- adamsea 6y ago
  As the people say, "Fuck 12".
  - anm89 6y ago
    As much as I support not supporting the police, I feel like there are better ways to further that cause than shouting cryptic slogans.
sdhrnrhbrt 6y ago
This situation reminds me the beginning of the pandemic: everybody thought it's just a couple cases here and there and would resolve by itself quickly. This won't resolve quickly, partially because the current sketchy administration really needs this kind of protest to justify using more force and implementing the global survelliance - something they've been wanting for long time.
- Trasmatta 6y ago
  I'm also having a similar emotional response that I did in mid March. Fear, anxiety, anger, sleepless nights, and distorted time perception.
  - sdhrnrhbrt 6y ago
    I think that's because people emit all the time, without quite realizing that, "magnetic waves" and emotions are the way we "observe" these waves. The strength of these waves is remarkable that even in my deep suburbia I can feel them. It seems the nation is rapidly finding its resonance mode.
    - _curious_ 6y ago
      Interesting notion...further reading/sources?
    - Trasmatta 6y ago
      No, that's silly. If I had managed to spend the last week without knowing anything about the news, I wouldn't have felt any of this. It's just a natural reaction to troubling events, no need to add magic to it.
  - mjayhn 6y ago
    I'm livid with companies that aren't talking about this with their employees and giving them space and flexibility on deadlines, meetings, telling them to not worry about taking vacation if they need to, etc. I've talked to so many friends that are stressed out and barely able to work or function right now and they have massive anxiety and stress from world events that are only being compounded by managers and C's not leading by example and telling them to take time for themselves and stopping the unnecessary meetings or TELLING them that they understand their productivity might be gone. And these are fairly privileged people with the ability to work from home and a stable income. My wife is a black engineer and she's hanging on the last 2 days still taking client meetings and putting on her "work is still important" face but she's miserable before and after dealing with them. She's also, like a lot of us who haven't been hearing direct empathy from leadership, afraid to take PTO/Vacation right now BECAUSE of the economy and fear of losing her job. On the flip side I have seen a lot of companies that are giving people Fridays off, 3-4 day weekends to decompress, etc. I think after this I'll be moving to only working for companies that I find to be very active in social movements.
sdhrnrhbrt 6y ago
I'm not sure what the US administration is doing, but I won't be surprised if they are going to manage this as good as the virus pandemic, i.e. that they are completely oblivious to what's happening and what to do with it. Since it's not in my interests to find one day an angry mob at my house, I'm tempted to give some advice regarding the "crowd management". The nation is like a bowl with liquid: the bowl is the borders that contain it and emotions is the force that drives the liquid particles. The exact equation describing this liquid doesn't matter much. What matters is that just like any liquid like substances contained in something, it has resonance modes and resonance frequencies. If there is an external periodic driving force (emotions in our case), the frequency of the force is going to find one of the resonance modes and once the mode is found, the amplitude grows exponentially. Time to find this mode depends on the strength (amplitude) of the driving force. The way to prevent or even stop the resonance is to keep changing the driving frequency: then the liquid forms steady patterns.
- adamsea 6y ago
  Or we could just hold police officers accountable when they break the law.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    Or we could do both?
- bondarchuk 6y ago
  >The way to prevent or even stop the resonance is to keep changing the driving frequency Well here I was thinking to myself "yeah yeah resonance hippie bullshit" but this does make a lot of sense.
082349872349872 6y ago
my cynical take: DEA has been authorized because DOD will not. B-34 et infra, p.B-6 FM 3-19.15 https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-19-15.pdf https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-19-15.pdf (esp B-54) I have no idea what the most recent incarnation of GARDEN PLOT may be, the above is what I found in a quick search. But I'd hope that at this point the DOD is more likely to side with the population than other agencies, and work-to-rule if need be. Anyone know of an online copy of DA Civil Disturbance Plan 55-2?

599 points by codezero 6y ago

Before it gets asked... >The DEA is limited by statute to enforcing drug related federal crimes. But on Sunday, Timothy Shea, a former US Attorney and close confidant of Barr who was named acting administrator of the DEA last month, received approval from Associate Deputy Attorney General G. Bradley Weinsheimer to go beyond the agency’s mandate “to perform other law enforcement duties” that Barr may “deem appropriate.”

mysterydip 6y ago
ah the old catchall "other duties," often used to abuse employees into doing work outside of their employed scope which would have been a higher pay grade if it were part of the job description.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure they are only too happy to buat riot organizers (as distinct from protesters).
  - mysterydip 6y ago
    I was referring more to other jobs such as IT Helpdesk (who also has to do server or network admin because it's "other duties as assigned" after they're hired) and the like
pyrophane 6y ago
I wonder if there is a specific loophole they are exploiting here or if they are simply ignoring the law because they can.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  There is no law that forces them not to work on other areas. It is just an administrative division.
  - wool_gather 6y ago
    The comment at the top of the thread disagrees with that; it says there is a statute that applies.
pfundstein 6y ago
How can we repair a system that's been systematically corrupted over several years? As a systems engineer my instinct is to rebuild the system from the ground up. If only politics was that simple.
- lallysingh 6y ago
  An omnibus law of restrictions on law enforcement.
- TehCorwiz 6y ago
  I hear the French did that once with great success. Took a while though.
  - grawprog 6y ago
    And cost a lot of heads.
  - GrinningFool 6y ago
    I hear it was rough on headcount.
  - kgin 6y ago
    Violent revolutions aren’t great when the ruling system is a democracy. By definition it’s going against the will of “the people”
    - projektfu 6y ago
      With gerrymandering, the non-proportional Senate, and the Electoral College system, it might be a stretch to call the US federal government a democracy. Something like it, but not exactly.
      - kgin 6y ago
        I would be down for a revolution against gerrymandering.
gbrown 6y ago
This is so completely fucked. I always worry about sounding hyperbolic, but I really do wonder these days if we’re living through the last days of the American republic.
- wetmore 6y ago
  I feel the same way a lot recently and I would love for someone to tell me why I'm wrong.
  - jedieaston 6y ago
    Because every other country in the world has a vested interest in keeping the USD stable as a currency, which would mean that they'd help keep the country up if needed (whether it's good or not that a civil revolt is extremely difficult here is up to you). The entire world's economy, as well as many countries political configurations, rely on the United States existing. I doubt it's going anywhere, but hopefully reform might actually happen this time.
    - ardy42 6y ago
      >>> This is so completely fucked. I always worry about sounding hyperbolic, but I really do wonder these days if we’re living through the last days of the American republic. >> I feel the same way a lot recently and I would love for someone to tell me why I'm wrong. > Because every other country in the world has a vested interest in keeping the USD stable as a currency, which would mean that they'd help keep the country up if needed You're answering the wrong question. The American republic isn't primarily an economic system, it's a political and social one. It can become completely fucked in so many ways without disrupting the currency too badly too quickly. I know it will be little consolation to me to have the currency remain stable while things descend into pseudo-democratic authoritarianism.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
refurb 6y ago
Does it really matter? Whether it's the FBI or the DEA on the street arresting people, does it make a difference? They are both federal law enforcement and both are held to similar standards.
Scoundreller 6y ago
Great. One step closer to ending the war on drugs and re-deploying DEA resources toward crimes that hurt people.
- dionian 6y ago
  right? im not sure why everyone is against the DEA focusing on more pressing issues
sitkack 6y ago
To task the DEA with this action is a direct affront to everything the movement asks for. The war on drugs was a direction action against blacks, to task the DEA with oversight in response to the murder by racist cops is to both acknowledge and turn down any complaint that we may have had.
slim 6y ago
man, if your constitution does not protect you from this, you have to change it. ours certainly does (Tunisia). executive can't simply give orders to restrict liberties without a proper law voted by the parliament.
- chasd00 6y ago
  Did everyone forget what just happened with the pandemic? There are no rights anymore.
sterlind 6y ago
21 USC section 878(a)(5) is what allows the AG to deputize the DEA like that. It's fascinating, seeing the lawful mechanisms of executive overreach in play. Horrifying, but fascinating!

ineedasername 6y ago

At the same time that this administration decries the overreach by other government law enforcement bodies such as the FBI.

beepboopbeep 6y ago
There is no credibility to this administrations statements, only its actions.
abootstrapper 6y ago
That’s because the FBI was investigating them and their buddies. For Trump it’s not about principles, it’s about power and what they can get away with.
- sarcasmatwork 6y ago
  Stop spreading lies. Everything you said was wrong. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2020/04/30/confirmed-the-fbi-always-intended-to-spy-on-the-trump-campaign-n2567430 https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2020/04/30/confirmed...
  - dagnabbit 6y ago
    Stop spreading lies. Trump only got caught because the FBI was spying on Russians when his people approached the Russians asking for their help to subvert American democracy. But I also get that you're a far-right extremist who despises democracy, and who thinks that using a hyper-partisan publisher who doesn't care about facts is a real source. So your brain worms have combined with your hatred of America to destroy you.
- bduerst 6y ago
  "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." -Frank Wilhoit

r00fus 6y ago

This is the thin edge to a national police action. Crazy how little oversight there is over the executive branch (and this administration in particular).

paxys 6y ago
The entire "checks and balances" system breaks down when a handful of Republicans in the Senate are complicit in everything that is going on.
- microcolonel 6y ago
  > ...system breaks down when a handful of Republicans... Sorry to burst your bubble, but it isn't just Republicans who resort to... creative executive strategies that are worth criticizing.
  - malnourish 6y ago
    I'm sorry, but "both sides" arguments are nothing but a deflection.
    - arminiusreturns 6y ago
      No, it really isn't, because in the end the oligarchs own both sides, full fucking stop. You can argue about the degree of harm, but almost always that approach is used to argue the degree of harm selectively about one particular partisan angle, and it's frankly bullshit. Obama just put on a nice face and was eloquent while he expanded the surveillance engine, the drone wars, the arms shipments to unstable third world countries, bailouts for billionaires, etc. Trump is brazen and up front about it, but the end result is still the same bullshit! Cops sending agent provocateurs in to justify kettling protestors happened under Obama too. That doesn't justify it in the Trump era either though! So tired of hearing this trite and cliched response anytime someone brings up that the corruption permeates the entirety of the policy elite establishment. The DNC and RNC (both corporations, never mentioned in the constitution) would rather work together in collusion than allow any real change to happen (as they did in the early 90s to control the debates), and until people wake up to the fact they won't be able to understand why nothing is changing. It just becomes a pendulum swing back and forth every few years while the inverted totalitarian kleptocratic oligarchic corporatists retain power in the shadows. Lets just spit some real facts here. Blackmail operations such as Epstein was at the front of, are a core part of how this has happened. He is a great example of how the corruption knows no party lines, but that's also why he was taken out, the story buried and convoluted, and half-assed coverup stories like netflix's latest doc are put out. The greatest thing the oligarchy fears is a united people... and the ol party lines and any other divide they can drum up is good at keeping us at each others throats instead of theirs. It's time to wake up and break out of the cycle. Or not. If not, we are Rome headed for a mighty and bloody collapse of epic proportions. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Top down compromise of a centralized system becomes increasingly trivial the further the compromise progresses.

29athrowaway 6y ago

"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." John Ehrlichman, counsel and Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs for Nixon, ca. 1968

ghufran_syed 6y ago
Relevant context and citation: “ Ehrlichman died in 1999, but his five children in questioned the veracity of the account. "We never saw or heard anything from our dad, John Ehrlichman, that was derogatory about any person of color," wrote Peter Ehrlichman, Tom Ehrlichman, Jan Ehrlichman, Michael Ehrlichman and Jody E. Pineda in a statement provided to CNN. "The 1994 alleged 'quote' we saw repeated in social media for the first time today does not square with what we know of our father. And collectively, that spans over 185 years of time with him," the Ehrlichman family wrote. "We do not subscribe to the alleged racist point of view that this writer now implies 22 years following the so-called interview of John and 16 years following our father's death, when dad can no longer respond. None of us have raised our kids that way, and that's because we were not raised that way." Ehrlichman's comments did not surface until now after Baum remembered them while going back through old notes for the Harper's story. Baum said he had no reason to believe Ehrlichman was being dishonest and viewed them as "atonement" from a man long after his tumultuous run in the White House ended. Baum interviewed Ehrlichman and others for his 1996 book "Smoke and Mirrors," but said he left out the Ehrlichman comment from the book because it did not fit the narrative style focused on putting the readers in the middle of the backroom discussions themselves, without input from the author.“ So the author heard the quote in 1996 but didn’t “remember” them until around 20 years later - you can decide for yourself whether that seems credible, and whether any writer wouldn’t use such a quote at the time for “stylistic” reasons. https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-rich...

hirundo 6y ago

"The DEA is limited by statute to enforcing drug related federal crimes." Barely an inconvenience.

koheripbal 6y ago
What statute?
- testbot123 6y ago
  28 CFR § 0.100: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/0.100 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/0.100
monadic2 6y ago
They just need to sprinkle a little crack before making the arrest.
- oldsklgdfth 6y ago
  I'm waiting for when "sprinkle a little covid on dead people" becomes a thing.

billme 6y ago

>> “In August 2013, a report by Reuters revealed that the Special Operations Division (SOD) of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration advises DEA agents to practice parallel construction when creating criminal cases against Americans that are based on NSA warrantless surveillance.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction#By_the_United_States_Drug_Enforcement_Administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction#By_the_U...

koheripbal 6y ago
How is this relevant to this article? Parallel construction can occur from any justice department org.
- testbot123 6y ago
  Because the DEA has a special unit for it: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dea-sod/exclusive-u-s-directs-agents-to-cover-up-program-used-to-investigate-americans-idUSBRE97409R20130805 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dea-sod/exclusive-u-s-dir...
koheripbal 6y ago
I think a lot folks are overlooking that there are indeed some concerning instigators in some of the crowds, trying to escalate violence. I found this list of supporting videos... https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gvmhh6/fbi_is_currently_taking_evidence_of_violent/fsqq446/ https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gvmhh6/fbi_...

ryandrake 6y ago

Hmm... If they want to stop rioting and looting, why are they going after "protestors" rather than the rioters and looters? Someone's torching a mall? No police in sight. People are walking and chanting in the street? That calls for a crowd of 1000 police fully decked out in military gear and tear gas, itching to crush heads.

tehwebguy 6y ago
They don't care about rioting or looting. Watch how the police have been arranged, in Los Angeles at least. They are there to make the protest seem dangerous, while intentionally allowing looting to go on 2 streets over. The idea is to allow scary looking but ultimately meaningless damage to occur while blaming it on protestors.
- pfisch 6y ago
  That is just not true. Lapd was not prepared to handle the changes in technology since 1992 and the roving bands of organized looters. They adjusted their strategy drastically on Monday and caught easily hundreds of looters on live tv. Their response times were under 5 minutes and they boxed in an entire caravan of looters at one point and caught them all. There has been basically no looting today at all so far.
- pasquinelli 6y ago
  The respond to peaceful protests with violence, which causes rioting, which leads to more power and money for police.

vsareto 6y ago

It says for fourteen days. Can you open an very wide investigation and keep it ongoing for longer than that?

chiefalchemist 6y ago
You can collect a lot of data that will have value long after the window is closed.

dnsprovider 6y ago

Palantir has contracts with these agencies. So you've got Facebook board members, and probably Mark Zuckerberg, profiting from this chaos. Are you guys figuring out the game yet?

bigyikes 6y ago
Curious: what is Zuck’s relation to Palantir?
- SauciestGNU 6y ago
  Peter Thiel serving on the board of both Facebook and palantir.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

FriendlyNormie 6y ago

Hahaha all your salty tears make my dick SO hard. Eat shit and die commie faggots.

eli 6y ago

Is there an easy way to detect fake cell towers? A rooted android maybe? Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re using Stingrays and it would be fun to catch one in the wild.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
There's already apps for it. You need root if you want to actually be able to avoid the suspicious towers.
- r00fus 6y ago
  Most previous versions of iOS are rootable - easy on an older phone that can't be updated.
snazz 6y ago
There've been reports that the Minneapolis Police Department has used Stingrays. Apparently there are some phones that can detect it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker#Countermeasures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker#Counter...
gen3 6y ago
You don’t need to be rooted for basic searching. Back when I ran android I found an app that would alert when you connect to a tower not in the database. I think it was called AIMSICD but it’s been a while. I think you would need to deploy more advanced techniques to be sure though.
VistaBrokeMyPC 6y ago
I use an app called cellular z. Never caught a stingray in the wild, but it's easy to see if a tower "moves" with it.

themodelplumber 6y ago

I wish we had more opportunities to learn about and highlight the kind of tech that could change or strongly affect this sort of narrative. Tech isn't always the answer, but here we are on HN reading about a frustrating issue, a bunch of spinning wheels in a sense, and we're good at tech as a group. I don't even know what it would look like, but currently the typical HN community response to this stuff is hyper-perceptive. From "here we go" to "here's what the article says". This alone is far too limited (we're not just here with our popcorn; we want to _do_) and it creates a pattern that can eventually shut out such news because no traction can be gained--what's the point. IMO we can build communications environments and frameworks that empower ourselves and others to take creative action, even of the sociopolitical type. And if we can't build 'em, we can share and promote the news. (Some of you are already doing this--thank you, please keep sharing your work)

Thorentis 6y ago
What exactly do you want to empower people to do? Loot Louis Vuitton and Walmart in the name of stopping police brutality? This violence isn't good for anybody and needs to stop.
- themodelplumber 6y ago
  If that's where your thoughts are going, maybe I can't help you much; anyway here's something to consider: I'd prefer to keep the outcomes open to all kinds of win-win possibilities. Assuming that those outcomes must involve looting does both of us a disservice. You can do better here. Maybe just leave it at that first sentence?
- monadic2 6y ago
  Well, to be able to spot propaganda like the variety you’re spouting right now would be a decent start. I’m not even sure where to begin worrying about the assets of WALMART AND LOUIS VITTON of all stores over the needs and apparent rage of the local community.
  - barnesto 6y ago

sgnelson 6y ago

Barr is one of the most dangerous AG's this country has ever had. He believes in extreme executive power. That "secularism" is evil and the downfall of this country. Worst of all imo, is that he believes that the law enforcement of the federal government is there solely to serve the president. Somehow he still calls himself a conservative.

BLKNSLVR 6y ago
All of the "conservatives" that come to mind for me, those that have their opinions spread across various news, sound like they fit fairly tightly into the shape you've described for Barr. At best they're apologists for the policies of the conservatives in power, at worst they decry the inability for the conservatives in power to really make change due to the cowardly, soft, obstructionist, lefty, socialist opposition. But I tend towards the cowardly, soft, obstructionist, lefty, socialist side, so maybe that's just what all conservatives sound like to me.
threatofrain 6y ago
Secularism (the sharing of religious space in a pluralistic society) is not a particularly unifying perspective among American Christians so it's not very surprising. For American Christians, secularism is a fancy word for "forfeit the power in your hands."
newacct583 6y ago
> Somehow he still calls himself a conservative. As opposed to all the other conservative AG's and administration figures throughout history, right? I mean, clearly the Bush administration didn't preside over any sweeping expansions of executive law enforcement authority, right? And the Regan-era "war on drugs" was clearly an outlier... This is the most truly scottish of true scotsman arguments. It comes up every time someone reaches a breaking point where they can't apologize for a republican administration. And the best they can come up with is that somehow they aren't "conservative".

arkadiyt 6y ago

Via Kim Zetter: > If you're wondering why DEA and US Marshal's Service have been given authority to conduct covert surveillance of protestors, it's likely because they have planes outfitted with Dirtboxes - powerful stingray devices that collect data on phones from the air https://twitter.com/KimZetter/status/1267969704259280896 https://twitter.com/KimZetter/status/1267969704259280896

kevinmchugh 6y ago
This may explain why the DEA, but not why protestors, as opposed to looters
- mkgolden 6y ago
  Maybe it is because protesters are more of a threat to those in power than looters
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    Of course, most of the looters are undercover cops anyway.
    - croissants 6y ago
      Most? I've seen hundreds of people looting in my neighborhood. Most of them aren't even adults, let alone cops.
    - jhloa2 6y ago
      Yeah this just isn't true. I'm sure that there's been some false flag attacks but to say that most of the looters are undercover cops is asinine.
- makomk 6y ago
  Because putting "protestors" in the title fits Buzzfeed's narrative better than "looters"? The stated purpose is to allow the DEA to investigate crimes such as looting, arson etc committed under cover of the protests.

naveen99 6y ago

I doubt they really care to stop or punish retail looting. Probably just testing / practicing their ability to detect more serious terrorism. I hope...

ashtonkem 6y ago
I admire your optimism. I don’t think you’re right, but I admire it.
- naveen99 6y ago
  Imagine a virtual protest over zoom where people loot copyrighted media by sharing it with fellow protesters... kind of like a civil disobedience Napster / scihub thing. Bill Gates, and the RIAA and MPAA and the publishers would historically be horrified, but given the transient, justifiable protest, their political message would be accepting. the DEA and NSA would want in again, not because they care to stop retail piracy (free advertising), but corporate espionage and tax evasion by people who have a lot of money.

mnm1 6y ago

Good to see that any pretense that the drug war was not just another way to enslave minorities and other undesirables is gone with the current government. Now they're bringing in the veteran warriors who have deep experience suppressing the aforementioned. A more hostile and unnecessary police force than the DEA doesn't exist.

readhn 6y ago

In Soviet union it was KGB and their black Volga's coming in the early morning hours to pick up the "inconvenient" ones. Early morning hours were picked because there were not many witnesses around. How far away from KGB are any of these 3 letter angencies? DEA, FBI, CIA, NSA...?

Krasnol 6y ago

It's interesting how the USA is becoming again a Brzezinski Experiment State. This time it's all the new fancy tech combined with the military on home soil and a mad head of state. Did anyone spot those fancy microwave crowd control stuff yet?

crocodiletears 6y ago
Can you expand upon that? I'm unfamiliar with the context behind 'Brzezinski Experiment State'.
- jacobush 6y ago
  I can only imagine it’s some kind of reference to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission and their disdain for excess of democracy.
- Krasnol 6y ago
  It was a common phrase of Brzezinski during the Cold War era to describe the Soviet Union (or East Block countries) as "Communist Experiments" (vs. USA as the Proto-Capitalist Experiment country). I'm not sure if he'd did that in the english version of his books though. One of his German ones is called: "Das gescheiterte Experiment: Der Untergang des kommunistischen Systems" (The failed experiment: the fall of the communist system".
  - crocodiletears 6y ago
    Ah, thanks!

a4wtaw4tawtawt 6y ago

it's very sad that taking advantage of protesting to commit domestic terrorism is so accepted by the left. glad we have an administration that will stomp this out. when i ask myself why i no longer vote dem it's hilarious i ever did in the first place. grow up kiddos.

readhn 6y ago

Surveillance of protesters: Student leaders were put under close surveillance by the authorities, traffic cameras were used to perform surveillance on the square and the restaurants in the nearby area and where students gathered were wiretapped.[108] This surveillance led to the identification, capture and punishment of participants of the protest.[109] After the massacre, the government did thorough interrogations at work units, institutions and schools to identify who had been at the protest.[110] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests#Surveillance_of_protesters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests...

tempodox 6y ago
Clearly Trump and his accomplices are huge fans and admirers of Chinese methods. And they've only just started.

xamuel 6y ago

Nothing better captures systemic, institutional, hidden racism than the war on drugs. Why oh why can't we end that already!

tempodox 6y ago
I don't find that systemic, institutional racism very much hidden.

monadic2 6y ago

Parallel construction in effect! If you’re going to a protest, for the love of god bring a prepaid phone.

trfhuhg 6y ago

Many comments here assuming that we can get out of this hole we've fallen into by changing laws or replacing the administration. Perhaps things are falling apart because of the massive influx of underdeveloped evil egos: they've got a supermajority mostly everywhere and can ignore the few good people. This is what some Hindi manuscripts mean by kali-uga - the dark age. With this skeptical view in mind, there isn't much we can do to reverse the flow. It's a flood and we can do our part to minimize the damage, but ultimately we have to wait when the weather changes.

troughway 6y ago
I remember seeing "kali uga" somewhere, but it's not pretty, and unfortunately, still somewhat relevant today given this whole thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lightning_and_the_Sun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lightning_and_the_Sun
- sdhrnrhbrt 6y ago
  "Yuga" is a large timespan in a human civilization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga.
pasquinelli 6y ago
There aren't that many people with power. We can only assume these underdeveloped evil egos have a supermajority within a group of a few thousand. Numerically, that's not an unmanagable problem, supposing it's the case.
- trfhuhg 6y ago
  It's apparently enough to have just a few people with visible power. I'm just saying, the reason we see so much snow everywhere is because it's the winter of the human civilization. And no, the winter won't end because some good minded folks issued a decree that from now on its summer.
Buttons840 6y ago
What is an "underdeveloped evil ego"?

seesawtron 6y ago

There was a post on Reddit where a guy found dozens of cameras hidden on poles that he could access with their IP addresses in browser and even control directly and get live feed into people's homes. Some of those said "Property of DEA". Eventually hundreds of people started accessing with the ip addresses that were listed by the OP and the feed was cut off. [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy_commons/comments/gin79z/i_made_an_alt_because_this_is_sketchy_so_i_can/ https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy_commons/comments/gin79z/...

01100011 6y ago
We knew years ago that the DEA has cameras all over the place. They do things like hide them in traffic control devices and read license plates with them. They analyze the traffic to look for drug mules and pass off tips to local police so they can execute parallel construction and hide the real source of the evidence. We all talked about it and, like most big brother shit, no one cared and we all moved on. Glad the kids are rediscovering it. https://qz.com/1458475/the-dea-and-ice-are-hiding-surveillance-cameras-in-streetlights/ https://qz.com/1458475/the-dea-and-ice-are-hiding-surveillan... https://reason.com/2012/07/11/dea-quietly-builds-its-network-of-licens/ https://reason.com/2012/07/11/dea-quietly-builds-its-network...
mkl 6y ago
Discussed here at the time too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23167592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23167592
650REDHAIR 6y ago
Some of those links are still active even after being outed more than 3 weeks ago.

Ididntdothis 6y ago

I am starting to wonder if this is what it means to run "government like a business". Corporations are basically authoritarian dictatorships that don't tolerate dissent or only within a narrow range and it seems that government is run the same way.

adamsea 6y ago

So with the DEA spying on Twitter what messaging apps are truly secure these days for the organizers of the peaceful protests to use?

anm89 6y ago

I think this has more profound history and consequences than people realize. The DEA for a long time has been slowly transforming into this catch all military/police/spy/logistics/legal/intelligence/technical agency. It picks up little bits of responsibility and capability here and there that enable it to do some function in a drug case. But because the funding of drug law enforcement is so crucial for so many government functions in direct and indirect ways, and because individuals in a position often benefit from an increase in scope the pressure is always towards scope creep, to saying yes when permission for more power is asked. So the DEA has organically expanded and expanded and expanded and the more this is accepted the easier it is for it to creep further and further until it starts to resemble something totally different than how it would have originally been envisioned. On the other side of this you get someone like Trump, who is looking for tools he can use that have limited restrictions on their powers and a wide scope of arenas in which they can be deployed, and the DEA is an obvious choice. An you end up with a very dangerous combo of a person who is looking for as much power as he can grab onto and this entity which is incredibly efficient and capturing scope and power within our current system and therefore extremely ripe for abuse. This is a great argument for strictly defining the scope of these alphabet soup agencies upfront and making the process to change those scopes very restrictive. Unfortunately we've chosen the exact opposite path.

adamsea 6y ago
As the people say, "Fuck 12".
- anm89 6y ago
  As much as I support not supporting the police, I feel like there are better ways to further that cause than shouting cryptic slogans.

sdhrnrhbrt 6y ago

This situation reminds me the beginning of the pandemic: everybody thought it's just a couple cases here and there and would resolve by itself quickly. This won't resolve quickly, partially because the current sketchy administration really needs this kind of protest to justify using more force and implementing the global survelliance - something they've been wanting for long time.

Trasmatta 6y ago
I'm also having a similar emotional response that I did in mid March. Fear, anxiety, anger, sleepless nights, and distorted time perception.
- sdhrnrhbrt 6y ago
  I think that's because people emit all the time, without quite realizing that, "magnetic waves" and emotions are the way we "observe" these waves. The strength of these waves is remarkable that even in my deep suburbia I can feel them. It seems the nation is rapidly finding its resonance mode.
  - _curious_ 6y ago
    Interesting notion...further reading/sources?
  - Trasmatta 6y ago
    No, that's silly. If I had managed to spend the last week without knowing anything about the news, I wouldn't have felt any of this. It's just a natural reaction to troubling events, no need to add magic to it.
- mjayhn 6y ago
  I'm livid with companies that aren't talking about this with their employees and giving them space and flexibility on deadlines, meetings, telling them to not worry about taking vacation if they need to, etc. I've talked to so many friends that are stressed out and barely able to work or function right now and they have massive anxiety and stress from world events that are only being compounded by managers and C's not leading by example and telling them to take time for themselves and stopping the unnecessary meetings or TELLING them that they understand their productivity might be gone. And these are fairly privileged people with the ability to work from home and a stable income. My wife is a black engineer and she's hanging on the last 2 days still taking client meetings and putting on her "work is still important" face but she's miserable before and after dealing with them. She's also, like a lot of us who haven't been hearing direct empathy from leadership, afraid to take PTO/Vacation right now BECAUSE of the economy and fear of losing her job. On the flip side I have seen a lot of companies that are giving people Fridays off, 3-4 day weekends to decompress, etc. I think after this I'll be moving to only working for companies that I find to be very active in social movements.

sdhrnrhbrt 6y ago

I'm not sure what the US administration is doing, but I won't be surprised if they are going to manage this as good as the virus pandemic, i.e. that they are completely oblivious to what's happening and what to do with it. Since it's not in my interests to find one day an angry mob at my house, I'm tempted to give some advice regarding the "crowd management". The nation is like a bowl with liquid: the bowl is the borders that contain it and emotions is the force that drives the liquid particles. The exact equation describing this liquid doesn't matter much. What matters is that just like any liquid like substances contained in something, it has resonance modes and resonance frequencies. If there is an external periodic driving force (emotions in our case), the frequency of the force is going to find one of the resonance modes and once the mode is found, the amplitude grows exponentially. Time to find this mode depends on the strength (amplitude) of the driving force. The way to prevent or even stop the resonance is to keep changing the driving frequency: then the liquid forms steady patterns.

adamsea 6y ago
Or we could just hold police officers accountable when they break the law.
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  Or we could do both?
bondarchuk 6y ago
>The way to prevent or even stop the resonance is to keep changing the driving frequency Well here I was thinking to myself "yeah yeah resonance hippie bullshit" but this does make a lot of sense.

082349872349872 6y ago

my cynical take: DEA has been authorized because DOD will not. B-34 et infra, p.B-6 FM 3-19.15 https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-19-15.pdf https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-19-15.pdf (esp B-54) I have no idea what the most recent incarnation of GARDEN PLOT may be, the above is what I found in a quick search. But I'd hope that at this point the DOD is more likely to side with the population than other agencies, and work-to-rule if need be. Anyone know of an online copy of DA Civil Disturbance Plan 55-2?