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Amazon in advanced talks to buy Zoox
- kyle_morris_ 6y agoarchive: http://archive.is/evYQ7 http://archive.is/evYQ7 The companies are discussing a deal that would value Zoox at less than the $3.2 billion it achieved in a funding round in 2018, according to people familiar with the matter.
- smachiz 6y ago3.2B was a pretty wild valuation though...
- wiredone 6y agoEven moreso now After a few years we all know we’re not as close as we all thought to having a car without a steaming wheel.
- throwaway573727 6y agoI for one will miss the days of both driving around and enjoying a good sauna.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ponker 6y agoThat doesn’t necessarily mean that investors or founders lose money. The investors could get a liquidation preference and the founders still become hundred millionaires.
- justicezyx 6y agoIt'll be interesting to see what the price ends up to be. With Rivian already get investment from Amzn, the picture of autonomous & electric delivery vehicle can be quite appealing. I guess the price would reflect how eager is Amzn to implement that strategy, and how realistic they think about the roadmap.
- threeseed 6y agoYou have to remember it's a completely different situation for companies like Amazon, Cruise versus Rivian, Tesla etc. The former has a restricted use case. Specifically, driving around specific suburban cities where if conditions are bad or issues are found they can easily just fall back to human drivers. The latter is trying to do self-driving under all conditions, all scenarios and where it's much harder for Rivian/Tesla to determine if it's safe or not to use self driving.
- true_religion 6y agoCan someone explain why non car companies are buying self driving car tech? Do they think they will end up with some sort of kit they can just attach to existing cars? Are they trying to pivot into being car manufacturing companies? Or is this just a play to develop the AI then sell that to someone else?
- topkai22 6y agoAs much as a technology or retailer company, Amazon is a logisitics company and they are buying a logistics technology that may drive down their delivery costs in an extreme way.
- ttmb 6y agoAmazon can use this technology entirely in-house.
- naveen99 6y agoYou mean like open pilot ? https://comma.ai/ https://comma.ai/
- fermienrico 6y agoMy take about Amazon interested in this is that in a giant list of AWS offerings, there will be a sensor suite processor service called SDS (Self Driving Suite) which will be installed physically inside the car as a server box. Amazon AWS has some experience in building hardware, AWS Snowball for e.g. Ofcourse it will communicate over 5G for non-immediate processing and will run through 3 intermediate AWS services before running the actual processing job on EC2 instance. One of them being SFS or Sensor Fusion Service, which combines geospatial data (from AGS + IPS) with up-to-date road data from other SDS equipped vehicles(1). The billing will be a bit complex so it will require ABS to optimize the billing based on location, mileage and other AI-driven metrics. (1) Inbound bandwidth will be free.
- trhway 6y agoAll that will look for user as just simple "Alexa! Take me to ..."
- person_of_color 6y agoI actually thought Art Levinson would bail out his son!
- organicfigs 6y agoAt least Jesse is quite accomplished. Some of Qualcomm's lesser-known acquisitions are c-suite's bailing out family.
- KKKKkkkk1 6y agoWhat are the chances that there is no rational thinking behind this deal? What I mean is, what if some Amazon exec said, "Hey, sounds like a cool project, let's throw a couple $b their way and write it off as R&D in the worst case?" Or maybe that exec is buddies with a VC who lost a ton of money on Zoox, and the exec decided to bail out the VC at the expense of Amazon shareholders? Or maybe someone at Amazon really likes Jesse Levinson?
- threeseed 6y agoZero chance. Less than zero chance. Companies don't make billion dollar purchases with no due diligence with just one person involved in making the decision. And they don't buy companies just to immediately write them down. Amazon is one of the most successful companies in the world. They didn't get there by acting like children.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- KKKKkkkk1 6y agoCollective decision making and financial due diligence can't always stop you from making dumb decisions. Especially at the most successful companies in the world.
- threeseed 6y agoNobody said that it did. But no company makes billion dollar acquisitions without involving the entire C-suite in particular CFO/Legal and the Board. And they sure as hell don't do it without proper due diligence.
- niyazpk 6y agoIs there a chance that this will turn out to be a bad decision? Sure. Is there a chance that Amazon did not analyze it to death before making the decision? Nope.
- kumarvvr 6y ago
- wmf 6y agoAmazon is buying 100K custom delivery vans so integrating self-driving is a logical step. They can even use existing delivery routes to map out a city before turning on autonomy. https://electrek.co/2020/02/06/rivian-amazon-electric-delivery-van-closer-look/ https://electrek.co/2020/02/06/rivian-amazon-electric-delive...
- postingawayonhn 6y agoBut isn't a driver still necessary for moving packages form the van to a home/business?
- tech-historian 6y agoYes, that is a critical step, of course. But the "last mile" problem is only a part of the logistics business. Trucks drive loads of packages between warehouses/fulfillment centers before being placed on smaller vans for home delivery.
- battery_cowboy 6y agoOr you get enough vehicles running 24/7 that you can get the customers to come get the package: "Free delivery if you can come pick your package from the van between 545am and 555am on the 24th" and then you can notify the customer as the van arrives. You make the van into a mobile Amazon Locker Hub or whatever those are called (we have one in my apartment complex). You can even schedule a half dozen deliveries at once for houses close together with a larger window: "Your Amazon Delivery Hub Van will be located 100 yards from your home to the west, at 123 Main St. from 5PM until 6PM tomorrow, please enter 123456 to get your package."
- sushshshsh 6y agoIntroducing Amazon ElastiChute! Are you tired of employing delivery drivers who take a few seconds of their day to go to the bathroom? With Amazon ElastiChute, you can seamlessly transfer hundreds of physical packages from delivery van to a client's front door. ElastiChute elastically expands to envelop a package and jettison it at just the right speed at a customer's door. Only pay for the hydraulic fluid you use.
- awjfowiefj 6y agoI was just about to accept a job offer from Zoox. I'm going to have to rethink that now.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoDepends if they'll give you equity as part of the comp with an acceleration clause. If so, congrats on your lottery ticket. As my uncle used to say, you can marry more money in a moment than you can make in a lifetime.
- iav 6y agoIf it’s stock options at the last round valuation then they will be worthless. In theory the 409A valuation should be adjusted but in practice it’s most likely still at the 2018 round value.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoI’m just saying asking is free. Better to have the conversation than regret. The worst that happens is OP is told no and/or the equity is worthless and moves on to a better opportunity.
- yowlingcat 6y agoI'm not going to go into why I disagree with your uncle, but let's just say there is more than one kind of cost of capital.
- ciarannolan 6y agoPerhaps GP is not inclined to work for Amazon, regardless of the compensation package.
- beambot 6y agoZoox has a hell of a liquidation preference overhang. The common stock options could very well be worthless -- a lot of factors at play here, all of them well outside the purview of non-executives.
- tech-historian 6y agoThis is an interesting purchase for Amazon on a number of levels. Obviously they have a huge delivery fleet that could benefit from self driving vehicles. And a giant company like Amazon must love an opportunity with an enormous addressable market such as this one. But the timing is interesting too IMHO. Amazon played the long game a little bit here and waited until self-driving technology was in the "trough of disillusionment" [1] to pounce on a promising startup. It saved itself billions of dollars in the process, let some of the pretenders fade away, and gave itself better odds of success. Self-driving tech is still a slog though, and success is not guaranteed by any stretch. But I give them kudos for this. [1] https://www.gartner.com/en/research/methodologies/gartner-hype-cycle https://www.gartner.com/en/research/methodologies/gartner-hy...
- rmason 6y agoSadly Detroit's Big 3 announced that they believe electric cars are the next big thing so they're cutting back on research for autonomous cars. They're blaming it all on the pandemic. I said publicly that Tesla and Comma.ai would eat their lunch. Now I can add Amazon to the list! https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/mobility/2020/05/26/carmakers-push-forward-evs-self-driving-hits-pandemic-speed-bumps/3077855001 https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/mobility/20...
- reitzensteinm 6y agoWhy will Zoox under Amazon eat their lunch, but not as an independent company?
- rmason 6y agoBecause under Amazon funding will no longer be an issue. They will be able to install devices in Amazon's rather large fleet and gain millions of miles of experience on roads all over America. It will accelerate their development process significantly.
- FreedomToCreate 6y agoThere are numerous Tier 1s (Bosch, Continental, ZF) working on providing autopilot like tech to auto manufacturers. Additionally companies have there own efforts (GM super Cruise for example which btw has nothing to do with Cruise and is developed separately). Comma has open sourced all there code, so good chance the OEMs have someone looking at it.
- Gatsky 6y agoI recall Zoox dumped their CEO founder quite suddenly, this announcement reminded to look up the story. Food for thought re founders and controlling stakes in startups. https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/why-self-driving-car-company-pulled-the-brake-on-ceo-20180923-p505gh.html https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/why-self-driving-c...
- socceroos 6y agoI do wonder if they've been positioning for an exit and that this is all the fruit of that.
- person_of_color 6y agoCongrats to Zoox! What kind of exit would an L3/L4 engineer make here?
- smilekzs 6y ago(IANAL) If bought at 1B, which is roughly the amount of VC money they took, the employee pool will be roughly worthless.
- sidcool 6y agoI feel it was only a matter of time. Amazon is competing on every front. And any transportation initiative would be core to their business. I won't be surprised if they bought an airplane company.
- presiozo 6y agoI guess they are playing for a portfolio approach. With investments in a bunch of different companies, in-house drones, and robotics research. Very interested in how they integrate them into Amazon, if at all.
- ss45 6y agoEmployees will make peanuts to nothing if Zoox gets sold for < 3.2 billion. This will make many folks who work at Zoox very unhappy esp with the amount of stress that engrs are taking every day. I hope engrs make some money here otherwise bye bye loyalty.
- supernova87a 6y agoThese risks are the same as for any tech startup company. Many people have made a similar gamble with equity. And in the meantime, salaries for AV software developers, machine learning engineers are not exactly below market.
- ss45 6y agoSalaries are usually range from 20 -50% of a total package. True it’s a gamble but folks expect the equity of same or higher value of that of a public company, esp if they work 80+ hour weeks. If they don’t get it, I do see them staying for a bit.
- mabbo 6y agoThat's how startups go. If you want certainty and no chance of winning big, join a Fortune 500 company. If you want uncertainty and a small chance of winning big, join a startup. For the engineers, they wouldn't likely win big on a sale below a certain value, but that doesn't make it a total loss. They'll have a job at a FAANG with likely a higher total comp than before. Replace stock option lottery tickets with regular RSU dumps at a decent paycheck.
- kingkong9 6y agoIt seems like you are agreeing with previous post that engineers will leave as they may not get enough.
- saos 6y agoAlso note that Amazon are awaiting clearance of $500m funding for Deliveroo (UK food delivery). https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-provisionally-clears-amazon-s-investment-in-deliveroo https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-provisionally-clears-... Just how many acquisitions and fundings have they provided this year?
- baxtr 6y agoFor a moment I read "Zoom" :D Would probably also make sense for amazon since they offer everything these days.
- arusahni 6y agoAs someone who used Chime, their conferencing service, anything would be an improvement.
- nojito 6y agoEveryone in this thread is so focused on self driving cars and yet they are ignoring the possibility of self driving deliveries. https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/07/nuro-gets-ok-to-test-its-driverless-delivery-vehicles-on-california-public-roads/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/07/nuro-gets-ok-to-test-its-d...
- vetler 6y agoTheir YouTube videos are just amazing to watch: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh5q-FtihPqzTbgEkZQRy3g https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh5q-FtihPqzTbgEkZQRy3g
- losvedir 6y agoWow, I never thought about it before but partial self-driving assistance makes a lot of sense for deliveries. I live in a pretty quite neighborhood in a suburb of Chicago and I see Amazon Prime vans drive by all the time. The driver parks, hops out, runs around to grab the package, drops it off, drives on, and repeat. This is a great scenario where you don't need total autonomy all the time: the delivery person could drive the highways and complicated parts, and then when there's a cluster of deliveries where the speed limit is 25mph and the roads are clear and regular, the van could go from house to house, with the delivery person hanging out in back or something. It's not full self-driving, but it seems like it could make deliveries a little more efficient.
- bryanlarsen 6y agoI was under the impression that freeways were the easiest target for self driving. The lack of pedestrians, bicycles and unprotected left turns makes it much more predictable. It's hard for humans because the speed is much faster than human reaction time evolved for, but that's not as much an issue for self driving. Tesla for a very long time only supportted self-driving on freeways. Neighborhoods are the complicated parts: they're filled with pedestrians, cyclists, kids, animals, and uncontrolled intersections. AFAICT, a self driving car has to pretty much assume that every pedestrian might suddenly dart into traffic, it can't really tell the difference between a normal pedestrian and a drunk heads down in their phone. But keeping speeds below 20mph opens up a lot of opportunities simply because stops are basically instantaneous at that speed and because car-pedestrian collisions under 20mph are almost never fatal.
- computerphage 6y ago"Results show that the average risk of severe injury for a pedestrian struck by a vehicle reaches 10% at an impact speed of 16 mph... The average risk of death for a pedestrian reaches 10% at an impact speed of 23 mph" [1] But, importantly, that's for human drivers, who are probably braking when, or at least after, the collision occurs. An AV that completely fails a detection wouldn't necessarily even try to stop. [1] https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-severe-injury-death/ https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-seve...
- mkchoi212 6y agoAm I the only one that read this as “in advanced talks to buy ZOOM”? I almost freaked out when I thought I read that..