16 ms·
Out of sight out of mind. I returned a bike yesterday in North Beach (SF) and people were crowded together. Maybe half of the people were wearing masks. There
by 650REDHAIR 6y ago
Out of sight out of mind.
I returned a bike yesterday in North Beach (SF) and people were crowded together. Maybe half of the people were wearing masks. There was a 4 piece street band walking around playing brass instruments like it was a carnival.
- tjr225 6y agoAnd yet every single one of those people is going to be just fine.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- dkdk8283 6y agoIn my state you aren’t shamed for not wearing a mask, thankfully.
- jshaqaw 6y agoMy family has already had Covid-19. We wear masks to not be jerks and make others fearful or uncomfortable because we can’t be bothered to put a simple article of clothing on.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoCome on, just wear a mask. Why would you resist it as though it's something to be proud of? Even if the only thing that it does is make other people feel safe, that's a good enough reason.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- vorpalhex 6y agoWell the same reason you don't share your email with the FBI and agree to be monitored at all times. I wear a mask, and I choose to wear a mask. I also wore a mask before it was "supported" by the CDC. If tomorrow it was legally required, I would stop wearing a mask.
- kilroy_jones 6y agoIf they had made it a temporary law and fined people heavily at the very beginning it would have saved thousands of lives and jobs. Look at the countries that acted swiftly back in January and February.
- vorpalhex 6y agoIn the US, legal requirements would have been met with more resistance and people not wearing masks intentionally and probably civil unrest. Sometimes asking is better than demanding. Texas asked and had excellent compliance. Michigan demanded and had angry protestors.
- kilroy_jones 6y agoThat people consider civil unrest because they're told to wear masks for a few months in order to prevent countless deaths is more a sign of a broken culture than anything else.
- vorpalhex 6y agoThis is a US specific phenomenon, and it's not a new one. I will further argue it is a critical principle for Democracy. The issue is not being asked to wear a mask, the issue is legally mandating them. I can ask you to donate money to a political party - you may say no, but me asking is perfectly fine. If I force you under duress to donate - well, that's something else, isn't it? Freedom is the ability to say no, even if that isn't an optimal choice. Taking that freedom away leads to bad outcomes like arresting people for unpopular views and sending Muslims to "re-education" camps.
- kilroy_jones 6y agoI assume you're also against seatbelt and helmet laws. What about those laws applying to children? What about smoking laws? The US already has numerous laws that few people complain about because they've come to recognize them as necessary for the public good. But that was only after they were passed and enforced.
- dkdk8283 6y agoWhen did I say I don’t wear a mask? You’re making some big assumptions. This is the danger with vilifying someone who you disagree with. There will always be different opinions and views. Being civil and accepting of others seems to be less and less common under the guise of doing “the right thing”.
- fcurts 6y agoExcept for the ones that will end up fighting the worst illness in their lifetime. It may not be them but their parents or grandparents.
- tjr225 6y agoMaybe, maybe not.
- fcurts 6y ago"Maybe" at individual level becomes "certainly" at city, state, or nation level.
- ACow_Adonis 6y agoYou ever had/lived with multiple relatives going with cancer or Alzheimer's. I'm sure it's un-PC to say it, but Covid is a relative cakewalk in comparison...
- esotericimpl 6y agoWhat if your Alzheimer’s parent died of Covid. Should we assume this is a cakewalk for me? Stop acting callous.
- Aeolun 6y agoDepends, if you’re 70 and diagnosed with cancer, you may still have a few years or recover completely. If you are diagnosed with covid you have a pretty high chance of being dead before a month has passed.
- tinus_hn 6y agoIf you are 70 and get Covid-19 you have a 90% chance of recovering. You make it sound like you have a 90% chance of dying which is an extreme exaggeration.
- 6y ago
- roelschroeven 6y agoEven if that is true, it is missing the point. Avoiding infection is not just for your own good; more importantly, keeping the speed of the virus spreading down is for protecting everybody. And what you say isn't even true. Plenty of healthy young people get very very sick. The percentages are lower than for older and/or less healthy people, but the numbers are still significant. Don't think you're invulnerable, cause you're not. Don't think that if you get no or only mild symptoms, no harm is done. Think about the other people you have unknowingly infected, and how you've contributed to the spread of the virus. (Where 'you' = the generic 'you', not you personally).
- tinus_hn 6y agoSo what are the numbers if they are significant?
- krona 6y agoAvoiding infection is not just for your own good; more importantly, keeping the speed of the virus spreading down is for protecting everybody. Twas ever thus. Norovirus kills 200,000 people every year, and yet we don't close entire cities every time there's an outbreak.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ben_w 6y agoIIRC, noro is too infectious for a lockdown to work, even though you can only catch it from the… emissions… when the patient goes off at both ends.
- rsynnott 6y ago> Norovirus kills 200,000 people every year That's true, but it kills very few people in the developed world. Deaths from norovirus are mostly a result of inadequate treatment, and/or lack of detection. And, frankly, if covid was only going to kill 200k people, we probably wouldn't be closing anything much. It has already killed almost 350k people, and that's _with_ most countries imposing variously draconian measures.
- simonh 6y agoPeople were saying that in New York in February and going to street parties. A month later the hospitals were overwhelmed. I think it is reasonable to ease restrictions when case numbers fall. Hopefully enough people will maintain distance and minimise unnecessary contact to slow it spreading and keep the pressure off the hospitals. However free riders recklessly endangering themselves, others and health care staff should be ashamed of themselves.
- xkapastel 6y agoI live in New York and I'm under the impression the hospitals were never overwhelmed. That was the fear, but it didn't actually happen. They also thought they would run out of ventilators, but never came close to using all of them, started giving them away to other states, and then discovered that ventilators were not actually a good treatment anyway.
- Retric 6y agoNYC hospitals increased capacity dramatically, with people treated huge wards and some sent to temporary facilities. That’s what being overwhelmed looks like, it’s not a binary condition just a decrease in the average quality of care. In terms of ventilators many people where kept off of ventilators who would have been given them in normal conditions. That was likely a good thing as ventilators have huge risks associated with their use, but things where a long way from ok. That said, the lockdown likely prevented a much worse situation at local hospitals.
- redis_mlc 6y ago> In terms of ventilators many people where kept off of ventilators who would have been given them in normal conditions. Sadly, that wasn't the case in NY. Even though Chinese doctors warned of the risks of ventilators in Jan/Feb, the US ignored that. There were 2 reasons: 1) intubating patients protected staff from aerosolization after the intubation 2) old understanding of oxygen levels led doctors to intubate way too early for corona.
- 6y ago
- analog31 6y agoI play in a jazz band, and one of the first things that came to mind when the lockdown started was standing next to the all of the horn players blowing their spit all over the place. Fortunately, both our rehearsal and performance spaces shut down before we had to decide as a group whether to continue operating.
- sandworm101 6y ago>> standing next to the all of the horn players blowing their spit all over the place. That's an aspect of the universal 6-foot rule that everyone seems to forget. It originally appeared as advice for business (restaurants). You don't want to sit too close to someone else in still air. But if we are spitting, singing, shouting, coughing, panting, playing in a Jazz band, or are simply downwind of someone, that 6-foot distance is probably not enough. Airlines have basically said as much about their cabins. If the air is being circulated artificially in a closed environment, specific measured distances are probably irrelevant.
- nradov 6y agoThe "universal 6-foot rule" is anything but universal. Other countries have recommended 1m, 1.5m, 2m, etc. The distance rules are almost entirely arbitrary and not based on sound science.
- chimprich 6y agoDistances can be both arbitrary and based on sound science. You can scientifically determine that your chances of infecting someone at 1.5m and 2m are e.g. 40% and 50%, but you still have to pick one to recommend.
- nradov 6y agoNo one has scientifically determined the infection risk at various distances. Such an experiment with human subjects would never pass ethical review due to the serious risk. Some scientists have created mathematical models of virion distribution, but those models are basically a joke and don't appear to align with observed reality. I do appreciate that public health authorities have to make clear and simple recommendations to avoid confusing people. But let's not pretend there is anything scientific about it.
- TomK32 6y agoWearing masks outside when you are not close to someone from outside your bubble isn't necessary. The virus needs close human contacts for several minutes to spread successfully. On the outside you have wind and other positive factors.
- hellofunk 6y agoThere have been plenty of reports of infection with far less than a few minutes of close contact. Proximity to a single cough can do it.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]