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Surviving Depression

• cjhveal 6y ago
  It took me a long time after taking that leap of faith into therapy to learn that the most valuable part of psychotherapy is not information or advice but it is the therapist-client relationship itself. You need to internalize their advice and techniques (as OP managed to do on their own), and therapy is about creating a facilitative environment to alter that conception of self. In therapy, you are unconditionally accepted with positive regard, which facilitates viewing yourself more clearly without the need to lean on self-defeating coping mechanisms, like self-pity or shifting blame. As social creatures we instinctively perform a lot of mirroring of others' mental state, so simply by being accepted we are able to try on what it is like to accept ourselves. It's leveraging an additional set of tools baked into us at a deep level to build self awareness and a more positive, realistic self model. If you're struggling, I'd like to echo others and strongly recommend you reach out to a psychiatrist and psychologist if they are within reach for you. Take OP as an example that it is possible to change, but please explore all the resources available to you so that you can explore what works for you. That being said, thank you to Vishnu for sharing some of your struggles and how you've managed to find ways to improve. It really helps to be talking publicly about these issues.
  • alexashka 6y ago
    In therapy, you are unconditionally accepted with positive regard, which facilitates viewing yourself more clearly without the need to lean on self-defeating coping mechanisms, like self-pity or shifting blame. As social creatures we instinctively perform a lot of mirroring of others' mental state, so simply by being accepted we are able to try on what it is like to accept ourselves. This is the most succinct description of a positive human relationship I've ever read. It does lack a feedback mechanism for correcting destructive behaviour however. A danger one can fall into with therapists, is that therapists have a self-interest in you coming back and/or giving a positive referral. If the therapist has that self interest in the back of their mind, they can avoid pushing you out of your comfort zone and/or enabling unhelpful patterns in order to get along. Absence of pushback is something beautiful/rich people often experience - because others see them as a valuable asset, they optimize for maintaining the relationship, even if the person is being self destructive in the process. This is why drugs are such a problem among them - it is costly to tell them they have a problem and so beneficial to benefit from their weakness in your favor until the wheels come off.
    • munificent 6y ago
      > A danger one can fall into with therapists, is that therapists have a self-interest in you coming back and/or giving a positive referral. If the therapist has that self interest in the back of their mind, they can avoid pushing you out of your comfort zone and/or enabling unhelpful patterns in order to get along. This is an example of a pattern I see everywhere now that I look for it. I think of it as the junk food metaphor. There are many products/people/experiences/ideas/relationships that make you feel good right now but later leave you feeling even worse than before. Every time I eat McDonald's, halfway through that double quarter-pounder with cheese I find myself thinking "This is so fucking amazing. Why don't I eat this everyday?" Ten minutes later, when my stomach feels like I took a punch to it, I remember the answer. McDonald's is good to me, but not good for me. I think a lot of therapists are like that too. They are unconditionally kind and you get an hour to talk about nothing but yourself. You can walk out feeling amazing. But did you leave with any tools? Did you get any closer to solving the mental problems that hold you back? Often, the answer is no. I'm lucky that the therapist I found strikes a very good balance of being short-term good and long-term good. When I'm really struggling and in a rough spot, he focuses the session on easing my pain right now. But when I come in and things are going OK, he says, "OK, now is a good time to try to work on some of those deeper problems." Then he'll ask a series of probing questions that turn over dark patches of my psyche I've been afraid to look under. I leave those sessions with sweaty hands feeling like I got a root canal and a math test at the same time. Those sessions aren't good to me. But over the next couple of weeks, I start to feel like an abcess has been drained. Those sessions are good for me. These days, a big part of life for me is finding the right balance between short-term and long-term benefits. I've erred too far in both directions and ended up miserable, but there does seem to be a sweet spot somewhere in the middle.
    • pmoriarty 6y ago
      "therapists have a self-interest in you coming back" Just a single data point counter to this: I had a therapist with whom I had a good relationship and who I'd seen for a long time who suggested that I find another therapist because we weren't making progress. I was reluctant to do so and we continued for a few more months when once again they suggested I find another therapist for the same reason, at which point I did leave and sought out another therapist (who was completely unrelated to this one, so there was no referral or kickback). If the therapist was motivated purely by self-interest they could have easily not have pushed me away, twice, and continued to have me as a loyal client. Instead they asked me to go see another therapist, for my own good. So, yeah, some therapists actually care. You have to find the right one, of course.
  • tetha 6y ago
    Also, they are trained and educated to recognize if this doesn't work. Speaking from experience there. They'll try to gain trust, which is necessary. Actual licensed therapists have two things going in there. You can go and meet them in private. And they are legally forbidden from telling on you to anyone, unless you're violent or suicidal. They will throw years and years of studies away if they give away you secrets. Beyond that, you'll be asked what you're struggling with. This can take a session or three. That's normal because it takes time to gain trust and open up. Though they'll gather data during these sessions, too. After all, you don't end up sitting in a therapists office because you're doing great. And they do know a number of different behaviors that end up being problematic beyond a certain scale. But it can be refreshing to talk to someone just knowning your bug. I knew I was writing too much by paragraph 2. But I'm submitting this anyway.
    • rexpop 6y ago
      > I knew I was writing too much by paragraph 2. But I'm submitting this anyway. I don't know why you say this. I found your whole comment informative.
    • sneak 6y ago
      > And they are legally forbidden from telling on you to anyone, unless you're violent or suicidal. That last is a reason a lot of people end up wanting to visit them. It's a privacy catch-22. There are also several things (being a pilot among them) that such a "private" session also may result in you being formally and permanently disqualified from. The privacy laws really need to be strengthened.
    • notokay 6y ago
      >unless you're violent or suicidal. Yes, and if you are suicidal, police will throw you in a jail. Or worse - in a psychiatric hospital. And you are gonna be fired from work and will be even more miserable than before. There is no help for men with depression. Even if you ask for it, you have to keep lying and downplaying your symptoms, so no one would think you are really depressed.
      • 6y ago
  • amp108 6y ago
    > In therapy, you are unconditionally accepted with positive regard Oh, how I wish that were true. When I was 12, my brother was heavily into drugs, my sister was violent, and my parents were ending their loveless marriage. I wasn't handling it well. My mother decided to put me in therapy. My therapist bullied me, literally shouting at me that I wasn't normal, suggesting I should skip out on school, and offering to "teach me how to masturbate". I hated going there, and told my mother (who had been granted custody), but she just said I hated it because he told me "hard truths" and "told it like it was". It's been decades, and for all I know he's dead. I heard that he'd been fined for insurance fraud, but never lost his license. I'm sure a competent therapist would have helped me. I did have problems adjusting, and I suspect (only suspect) that I'm "on the spectrum", as the kids say. But I was put in exactly the wrong place to deal with that. Moral of the story: you have to vet therapists thoroughly before you entrust your psychological well-being to them.
    • thom 6y ago
      I'm sorry you went through that, both the relationship with the therapist and your family's lack of support. I hope you, your siblings and your parents are doing better now, but either way this seems an important warning to note.
    • GuiA 6y ago
      It’s hard to bring up that point without being misunderstood. While therapy can obviously be incredibly positive, like any discipline it suffers from a large proportion of mediocre practitioners, and a smaller but more dangerous proportion of harmful practitioners. My personal experiences with mental health professionals (over several decades, in multiple countries) were unhelpful at best, and at worst they included things like recklessly prescribing medication (within 10 minutes of the first meeting), relying on outdated junk science, pushing for more appointments/making it very hard to end the patient relationship, etc. Considering that many people who are likely to go to a therapist are likely to be in a vulnerable place to begin with (doubly so for children/teenagers), the recent wave of blind faith in therapy and the belief that “go see a mental healthy professional it can only make things better” is reckless.
    • mnm1 6y ago
  • 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 6y ago
    > In therapy, you are unconditionally accepted with positive regard, which facilitates viewing yourself more clearly You have described effectively the opposite of modern society, where there's a thirst to find faults in one another. Whether it some bias, political opinion, attitude, etc. It's a national past time to judge the virtue of another person's character. The less understanding and reflection on self, the more vicious the judgement. Maybe if we begin spending less time virtue signally to one another and more time being alone with our own thoughts...
• freedomben 6y ago
  One of the easiest and most effective things I've ever done was start taking DL-Phenylalanine. I'm not a doctor and you should definitely not take medical advice from random people on the internet, but if you struggle with depression, do yourself a big favor and look into it.
  • zoba 6y ago
    I wanted to ask you more about this but the email link in your profile is not working. My email is also in my profile.
    • freedomben 6y ago
      Interesting, I hope scr.im is just temporarily down and not permanently offline. My email is freedomben at proton mail dot com
• narak 6y ago
  Thanks for sharing. Also, PSA: Get tested for any sleep disorders and hormone issues. Affects every aspect of your health and is massively under-diagnosed (80-90%)
• Vysero 6y ago
  I too suffer with depression and have been now for the better part of a decade. I, for similar reasons, have also chosen to live instead of die. My depression began to get worse a few years ago and I decided to do something about it this year. So far I have tried therapy and I quit for.. yet again.. similar reasons. I have not tried medications because I have an addictive personality and will no doubt become dependent on them. What has helped me the most so far believe it or not is quitting smoking. Not so much because smoking was a trigger, but because it's shown me that I am capable of going toe to toe with myself. Exercise also seems to be helping me. Although, I will admit I have begun to drink quite often, every night in fact, and I am working on that. I will give some of your suggestions a try.
  • throwaway_3499 6y ago
    antidepressants do cause physical dependency in basically everyone who takes them -- you have to taper off slowly. but they are not addictive in a psychological sense. they don't get you high or make you feel good in the moment. i took them for a while and never felt any urge or desire for them -- it was something i had to constantly remind myself to do. indeed, i would frequently forget to take them -- this is not something that usually happens with addictive substances! my point is, there are many reasons to take or not to take antidepressants, but there is almost no risk of addictive behavior like might happen with anti-anxiety drugs like xanax or stimulants like adderall.
    • slaymaker1907 6y ago
      If anything, I find that I am more often tempted to try and go off of them when I shouldn't or at too quick of a pace without tapering since the side effects of most anti-depressants are not pleasant.
      • helldritch 6y ago
        Most people need to try a few antidepressants to find one which really works for them and which they can take with relatively few side effects. I had Sertraline 150mg previously and found that rather than helping me it caused a significant increase in my suicidal ideation. I now take Mirtazapine 45mg instead and the suicidal ideation has gone away entirely, of course I have other side effects (the Mirtazapine makes me drowsy and has caused me start snoring!) If you're reading this and your not getting a good response from your current medication, talk to your GP about changing to something else. Sertraline didn't work for me, but very well could for you, etc.
• andreyk 6y ago
  As someone who has survived some really bad episodes of depression, a lot of the content of this resonates with me and seems like useful advice. I think "My inability to find anything relatable made things worse." is very true, there is very little out there of people sharing their recovery stories, so props to author for writing this! That being said, the dismissive use of 'Happy Pills' is a bit problematic IMO, for some that is the most effective way to heal depression (not just "numbing your senses"). Though of course, over the long term fixing external issues in your life that lead to depression is of course sensible. Self-plug warning, I recently wrote a post titled "Things Everyone Should Know About Depression" which conveys some of my own experience and a lot of facts about it: https://www.andreykurenkov.com/writing/life/things-everyone-should-know-about-depression/ https://www.andreykurenkov.com/writing/life/things-everyone-...
  • vishnumohandas 6y ago
    I’m sorry if I sounded dismissive. I guess it was because my experiences with psychiatrists were painful and frustrating. I completely understand and agree that medication could be a viable solution for someone else.
    • andreyk 6y ago
      No worries, of course different peoples' experience vary - but there is a lot of stigma about even trying them as is, so maybe best to give a caveat that it is worth trying for some.
      • loceng 6y ago
        Perhaps then also with the caveat that the potential harmful effects can completely fuck you up, let alone the withdrawal that many experience; not looking for a debate or argument, however certain classes of medications have a bad rep for valid reasons and people should be cautious because of many variables.
    • WilTimSon 6y ago
      Medicating will be painful and frustrating for most people, the only thing that differs is whether they will eventually help or not. Sadly, the road to find a working medication that has minimally inhibiting side effects is painful enough that it isn't worth it for many people. Therapy becomes a bit more viable, especially since it's more of a positive process.
• weej 6y ago
  For those suffering from depression, anxiety, stress please consider meeting with a psychiatrist and psychologist. Some brains are neurologically misconfigured and prone to chemical depletion or lack receptors for it (ex: serotonin or dopamine). All the pushing through and search for answers, triggers, or source of problems won't solve this. Secondly, cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) can work well for analyzing the 'why' you feel and/or behave the way you do. It provides perspective, insight, and tools for helping cope with problems (control/mitigate or potentially eliminate). Both of these are tools that can dramatically improve your life. I've been there and still am. Seek the support you deserve. Tomorrow will bring a better future.
  • stronglikedan 6y ago
    IME, it's best to start with the psychologist. They can determine whether talk therapy will be enough to correct the chemical imbalance without drugs. If necessary, they can refer you to the psychiatrist, who can give you the medication, but doesn't want to talk.
    • tachyonbeam 6y ago
      They can also work in tandem. You might be more receptive to therapy and analyzing your feelings when you don't feel like the world is ending. IMO, there's a threshold where antidepressants are necessary. When I lose interest in everything I care about, I don't feel like cooking, everything seems boring, and I have no energy (anhedonia), that's my threshold.
  • deleted 6y ago
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  • smacktoward 6y ago
    This. I had great results from working with a cognitive-behavioral psychologist. She helped me see patterns in my life that I had never even suspected were there before. I'm skeptical that I could have gotten the same results by reading a couple books on CBT on my own. The exercises were valuable, but so was the outside perspective, and I don't think either would have worked as well without the other.
• chrischattin 6y ago
  All you have to do to see that depression is a disease of the bourgeoisie (I feel dirty using that word) is travel around the world a bit. Some of the poorest people out there are the happiest and living hand-to-mouth doesn't leave much time for feeling melancholy. In fact, it seems to give satisfaction, purpose, and fulfillment. To put things in perspective for the HN crowd, if you make over $30k/year, you're in the the top 1% worldwide. And at that level, all your basic needs are met by a large margin. You are free to pursue the kinds of wildest aspirations of your heart and mind – if you chose.
  • intro-b 6y ago
    This parroted advice is unhelpful and almost always incorrect - simple caricatures of the "travel the world" and "you don't have it so bad" and "just follow your dream" are just empty platitudes. Depression can not only affect people from all socioeconomic backgrounds, but is often highly correlated with economic distress, especially if you look in areas like the upper midwest. Depression often negates your life's sense of purpose. Saying that the "poorest people are the happiest" and poverty somehow alleviates depression because they're too busy working for their next meal feels condescending and tone-deaf.
    • deleted 6y ago
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  • jotm 6y ago
    Ah yes all the poor alcoholics who are barely alive must be really enjoying their life. And all the poor who just killed themselves have accomplished everything and decided to call it a day. Please, if you're lucky enough to not know depression, you can't really decide that it's just the affluent who never worked the fields. I know this is most of HN, but Depression being an affliction of the bourgeoisie is just a bad conclusion.
  • ldeangelis 6y ago
    While it can help some people, statements like this can also add to the guilt that some people already feel due to not being happy, especially when they already know that they're "really lucky" and have "everything they need".
• flobosg 6y ago
  Somewhat related: "The Depression Thing" by Zach Holman (https://zachholman.com/posts/the-depression-thing https://zachholman.com/posts/the-depression-thing).
• whalesalad 6y ago
  My journey (it has been a long and arduous one, multiple therapists, multiple psych's, more drugs than you can imagine) has recently taken me down the path of psychoanalysis and deep exploration of my childhood. It has been eye-opening and transformative to say the least. I would urge anyone who may have had a traumatic childhood to dig into that more. This book has been a fantastic resource: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C4BA4I6 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C4BA4I6
  • deleted 6y ago
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  • M5x7wI3CmbEem10 6y ago
    I don’t know if I recall this correctly, but doesn’t the author write with a religious undertone? Would this be effective for a non-religious person?
    • whalesalad 6y ago
      I haven't noticed a religious undertone. I grew up in a religious family but I am, currently, not a very religious person. The author was raised in a Catholic family though, so there are sometimes anecdotes or experiences that are related to religion and clergy. Personally I find the writing to be concise, to the point, and very scientific. I read 30% of the book last night because I could not stop. I am like a dried out sponge and this is the water I have been looking for.
  • philosopher1234 6y ago
    Psychoanalysis has changed my life for the better. I'm a much more thoughtful, compassionate, and understanding person (with myself and others) than I was when I started. For all the bad rep Freud/analysis gets, theres something deeply right about it, and I think many many people could benefit from it if only they could find their way to giving it an earnest and extended try.
• jotm 6y ago
  If just CBT works for you, great. Everyone else, just do yourself a favour and go get some medication. Life's too short to live it miserably stubbornly denying the effects of drugs.
  • jotm 6y ago
    Ooor don't, you can always stay miserable or kill yourself, I guess.
• outime 6y ago
  I'd say psilocybin (magic mushrooms). It doesn't cure depression by itself, it just punches you in the face and shows your reality and then you can decide if you want to change something, everything or nothing. It's cheap, it's natural (not that it makes it good, but it's nice that nature provides and it's accessible), it's been proven very safe for the majority of the people (not to be taken with antidepressants or if suffering serious mental issues such as schizophrenia) and it's been used for ages for many purposes and science has been considering it as a very valid treatment for depression for some time now and I can vouch for it. There are places in the world where this is legal, and you can do it with doctors if so you wish. I didn't go through the official medical route since like many other people, I wasn't entirely convinced that taking pills covering the problem (if anything, I don't buy the "chemical imbalance" theory - I do believe there's one, but that's just the end of the chain and not the cause) combined with several years of therapies was going to be a good idea in my specific case. Luckily HN is a quite open community and this has been discussed several times so please use the search to read more about it. The book "How to Change Your Mind" by Michael Pollan is a must read if you want to convince yourself and give it a try. I can also recommend r/microdosing and r/psychonauts. Please do a lot of research before you decide to take this route as the process can be tough but then if you happen to be very deep into depression it's worth looking into.
  • 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
    Depression and anxiety are diseases of the ego. When you dissolve your ego, such afflictions melt away.
    • amelius 6y ago
      You mean personality disorders? I think they are something else.
    • SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
      Yes, fearful and anxious battered women are full of ego. So are soldiers suffering from PTSD. Agoraphobics are bristling with pride.
• AlphaSquared 6y ago
  As someone who struggles with this on and off, probably more on than off but I dont like to admit that, I find gratitude to be the one thing that makes a huge difference in my life. It fits in nicely and deeply with my religion as well so there's that. Externally though people think I'm a very happy person. Internally I know its just easy for me to forget or push away the dark thoughts for periods of time, but when I let them surface, they can cause a lot of sadness. The thing about me is that I am a very logical person. I recognize and find it very easy to deal with the fact that depression is by and large a chemical imbalance. So I often find it very easy to label my current sadness as something caused by lack or excess of chemicals in my brain and that helps me cope a lot with things as well. I've found depressed people tend to be told a lot to excercise and dont consider it as a solution, but again for me I find it fairly easy to co-relate the low points in my life with a lack of excercise and fresh air. So this tends to again help me push myself out of my low moods.
  • alexilliamson 6y ago
    As a non-religious person, all this resonates very much with me. The gratidtude bit is something that is relatively easy, and surprisingly effective at making you feel more connected with the world. Try writing down the thing you're thankful for, or even actually thinking people. I bet you'll be surprised at mood the lift you get.
    • AlphaSquared 6y ago
      Agreed. I've noticed that sometimes I get a huge boost of happiness by simply smiling and giving a greeting to strangers passing by who seem to be having a tough time... Seeing the huge smile on their face when they see a random stranger greet them brings me to the verge of tears. The life of this world can be tough on people. Every little bit helps.
• throwaway_sjfgd 6y ago
  I'm looking for advice. I have been suffering for the last several years. The root cause of the problem is still there and cannot realistically go away easily [1]. I'm consulting with psychologists and was taking medicine (held currently by the lock down). It has not helped to read literature myself [2] as it only says sadness and depression are likely given the circumstances. Among the good things: I have a good job [3], have several friends who are supportive, am trying hobbies like music. I'm generally exercising also, slowed by lock down. [1] I've been in an abusive and sexless marriage for over a decade, living separately now. Spouse has filed a false violence case against me, the matter is in the courts and proceeding at its own pace. And there's more. [2] E.g., Maslow's hierarchy of needs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs) [3] My performance is below my standards due to low motivation and negative impact of stress on memory. I am barely able to do anything myself, however, I'm doing great in guiding and mentoring others which is an important part of my role. It has helped to let them know of my personal situation and everybody is supportive.
  • whalesalad 6y ago
    > I've been in an abusive and sexless marriage for over a decade, living separately now This is a substantial thread to pull. Do not discount the impact of this on your life and your wellbeing. My email is in my profile if you would like someone to talk to.
    • throwaway_sjfgd 6y ago
      Thanks a lot for the helping hand!
  • dagav 6y ago
    I highly recommend you listen to these lecture series. I cannot overstate the profound effect they had on my life, by giving me the tools I needed to turn my depression around and give me a sense of balance and control in my life. https://youtu.be/f-wWBGo6a2w https://youtu.be/f-wWBGo6a2w https://youtu.be/I8Xc2_FtpHI https://youtu.be/I8Xc2_FtpHI
• sdwvit 6y ago
  The blog design screams 'depression' to me :|
  • slx26 6y ago
    there's a light mode switch at the bottom, though on the posts it's rather hidden. on the main page it's more accessible.
• adamc 6y ago
  I started suffering severe depression when my (now ex-) wife asked for a divorce, about 3.5 years ago. Therapist/psychiatrist also have told me there is a lot of grief mixed in. The fact that my 20 year old kid won't talk to me makes it worse. Nonetheless, it has gradually gotten better. I don't think the medications have been very effective, but time to internalize different ways of thinking about my life have helped. They're slow, though. It takes a long time to change. Another thing I sometimes do, somewhat akin to what is described in the article, is just close my eyes and be, for a bit. I would call it meditation but there really isn't much thinking -- just feeling what I feel. Accepting where I am, as best I can. I really identify with the 'I’m better now. It’s hard to call myself “happy” (what is happiness anyway?)'. I don't think I'm happy (I have memories of what that felt like), but at least I'm not desperate every moment. I've spent an insane number of hours wondering why being alive is a good thing. Still not sure I have an answer.
  • hoorayimhelping 6y ago
    >I've spent an insane number of hours wondering why being alive is a good thing. Still not sure I have an answer. Reminds me of this passage from Catch-22. One of the characters is saying he revels in terrible situations that last forever, because it makes life seem longer that way. --- "Well, maybe it is true," Clevinger conceded unwillingly in a subdued tone. "Maybe a long life does have to be filled with many unpleasant conditions if it's to seem long. But in that event, who wants one?" "I do," Dunbar told him. "Why?" Clevinger asked. "What else is there?"
    • geedy 6y ago
      I'd argue he never experienced anything that terrible. I can totally relate to wondering whether even another hour was doable, and no, being alive just for the sake of being alive in those moments is not worth it. I guess I've always been hopeful even in the worst of times that things will get better (they always do) and that's the only thing that makes those stretches workable.
  • downerending 6y ago
    Can very much relate. And especially when you're simply trying to get through hell, there's a lot to be said for finding a sympathetic therapist/etc to just help you get through it. My tips: Be kind to yourself. Try to do things when you can--action is a universal anti-depressant. Try not to pointlessly ruminate--it's generally depressing. If things get really bad, and you have no other ideas, get drunk. (Not great, but far better than an ill-considered suicide.) As for why being alive is a good thing, not sure I have that answer either. But really, we'll all be dead very soon, so I figure there's little need to rush things. Bonus: For meaning, (1) something to do, (2) someone to love, and (3) something to look forward to. And (2) could be a pet, if you're sick of people.
• deleted 6y ago
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• ryanianian 6y ago
  This is such an uplifting article. It's great to see someone recognizing their own healing and thinking about how they made it all work. > I set aside hours each day to do nothing. In some sense, this was meditation. Except, I did not force myself to not think. In fact this is exactly what many styles of meditation practice are! You're not "not thinking," you're being self-aware of your thoughts and learning to guide them where you want them. I say this not to be pedantic but to correct some notions of what meditation usually tries to achieve: more self-awareness and control, which you can use to help guide your own sense of self and healing. (At least this is the conclusion I've come to after using one of the well-known apps that I actually really like.) I still suffer from light depression and moderate ADHD, but meditation has been just as effective for me as therapy and medication for both of these (although I'm sure medication and therapy are making the mediation easier and more effective).
• preya2k 6y ago
  Thanks so much!
• spacephysics 6y ago
  I read others asking for possible advice on where they can go/what they can do for help, and beyond the standard psychologist/psychiatrist, and typical resources linked from others, I'd like to share my experience. Had depression most of my life, going from irritable depression to standard melancholy depression. Seen a handful of psychologists, and wished they worked. As mentioned in the article, it takes an enormous amount of time to get someone else 'up to speed' on you, your history, your proclivities, and your hypothesizes. I did it a few times, but had mixed experiences. Still think psychologists are a very good resource, its just takes time to find a good one. During treatment, I tried a multitude of the standard anti-depressants, which merely masked the symptoms for myself. For others, these options work much better. After being frustrated from my last therapist, I decided to dive into the research, and self-experiment. After 5 or so years, the following has helped immensely. I still have my lows, but they feel normal, and expected: * Exercise: My constant irritation against those that just wanted to help, made it hard to let them in. So my anger and resentment was turned to weight lifting, and focusing on muscle building. I tend to overthink, so this was a good way to still continue to analyze, but also tire me out into a meditative-like state. The key for me was not to just go through the motions of the workout (though some days that's all I did), but to feed into that primal urge for aggression, put on intense workout music (mine was heavy rock), and exert as much energy into defeating my sets as possible. I agreed to do 10 reps for this last set? F-that, I'm doing 12. Nope 14. (within reason) * Food: If you've read my past comments, you'll know I eat carnivore. This isn't to proselytize the diet, though it has had the largest positive impact on my emotional well being compared to anything else. Rather, its to point out that diet plays a key role. If you're eating something that's inflammatory to your gut, your emotional state may be the victim. This isn't the case for all instances of depression, but the research is mounting [0][1] Though these resources contradict my attitude towards many (not all) plants, the point is find what diet is right for you, even to at least eliminate that possibility. For me, if I stray into a problematic food, I am intensely depressed for at least a day or more, reminding me of what I worked to 'cure'. * Time to yourself: As others have pointed out, meditation is great. So is yoga (especially hot yoga, if you like a challenge). Start slow, but what I've found for myself is that as my self-discipline increases, my confidence and mood do as well. From normal yoga, to 80 degree, to 95 degree, the challenge and (enjoyable) 'pain' in the moment, leads to a euphoric bliss of calmness after. * Sun: Vitamin D deficiency is shown to have many issues related to depression, immune health and others. Depending on where you live, and how much melanin you have, you may need more than you think. Spend time outdoors during sunny periods (without sunscreen) for a time that's appropriate (you'll have to test yourself to find your optimal amount). Ask your doctor for vitamin D tests on a regular basis, so you have data to test your hypothesis. * Socializing: Introvert or extrovert, some communication (whether in person or over the web) is generally seen as a positive thing for many. At times I didn't want to interact with anyone, as I would just hate my own existence, and their happiness as well. So in times like those I'd join forums or play games with people online. Something to get out of your own head. Or immerse yourself in a book, 'socializing' with the characters. Hope this helps someone, I understand all too well the deep, endless darkness that is depression. It's always lurking around the corner, and sometimes I forget how bad it is, until I slip up. But there is a way out, it just has to be your way. [0] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/diet-and-depression-2018022213309 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/diet-and-depression-2018... [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/food-and-mood-is-there-a-connection https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/food-and-mood-i...
• kiddico 6y ago
  If you're ever looking for a CS partner I'm down to play. I'll race you to the bottom of the scoreboard haha. https://steamcommunity.com/id/xeroxgun https://steamcommunity.com/id/xeroxgun
• throwaway95568 6y ago
  I think there are a lot of misconceptions about medications and people are pretty down on them, but they have been a literal lifesaver for me. For the sake of someone who may be considering medication, I'd like to share my experience. I went through a pretty rough period of depression several years ago, but I realized later that I had cycled in and out of medium to mild periods of depression in cycles throughout my life. I wouldn't have said I was depressed at that time, because I had the common image of a person who can't get out of bed in mind. While that is certainly the case for some people, depression comes in many flavors. I was always irritable and had a hard time being patient for anything. I also experienced anhedonia, which is often described as "lack of pleasure." I feel like that is not necessarily the best description, and it's hard to describe it unless you've experienced it. It was more of an emotional flatness. Sometimes I felt like a robot: I sensed that it was a sunny day, food tastes good, but didn't have any positive feelings. It was like watching a movie that you're not invested in and don't care how it ends. While I didn't really notice it at the time (part of therapy is learning to pay attention to your thoughts more), I would also often ruminate on negative thoughts: how much I was disappointing people at work, how inadequate I was as a husband, father. When someone talks about depression, well meaning people often suggest things like meditation and exercise. I don't think that is necessarily bad advice, but I do worry that this may trivialize how hard it is to climb out of the hole when you're depressed. The one good habit I did have before and during the time that I was depressed was I consistently worked out 3-4 days a week, running, crossfit, lifting free weights. I would recommend exercise to anyone and I certainly think it helped me. But it wasn't enough to overcome my depression. I was also meditating quite a bit at the time. I found a zendo near me and would often duck out during lunch time to sit for a half an hour. I also found the Headspace app really useful for short 10 minute sittings during the day. I would recommend meditation to anyone, but it wasn't enough to overcome depression. At some point, I hit a point where everything seemed to be unraveling and I started talk therapy. I would say this is one of the most important things I've done in my life, as I realized I had a lot of maladaptive mental patterns. Therapy isn't an easy road. My first therapist was good, but not a fit for me. When you are in therapy for depression, often your assessment of how well therapy is going starts to factor into how you feel, and I began to become hopeless that I would ever feel better. After almost a year, I sent my therapist a text out of the blue one day saying I wasn't going to come any more, which probably wasn't the best way to handle it. Someone else who encouraged me to go in for a last session. The therapist and I both agreed it wasn't a fit. I found another therapist that was much more effective for me, and made a lot of progress. I got better at catching myself having negative thoughts or ruminating. But I still felt very flat. My therapist asked what I would do if I never felt good again. At the time, I said "I'm not sure I'd want to go on." But shortly after that, I accepted that this may be the way I would feel from then on, and, while I didn't feel great, it was, in some hard-to-describe way, better. Finally, after several years of therapy, still feeling flat, I decided to try medication. The first one I tried was Wellbutrin, which has relatively benign side effects. I knew it could take a long time to find the right medication and dosage, so, while I was hopeful, my expectations weren't too high. When I first started taking it, I didn't notice anything, not even side effects. But one morning, after being on it for a while, I was driving my car to work in rush hour and suddenly realized that I felt at ease; I was enjoying the drive. It was so amazing I wanted to cry. People like to describe these medications as "numbing," as if they were some sort of opiate, but that's not my experience at all (I'd add that I subsequently also added an SSRI for anxiety). They more shifted my perspective, gave me more space to be mindful of my thoughts and emotions. Some people have had very bad experiences with these, and I don't to minimize that in any way, but I'd also say medications are useful for some people.
• uoaei 6y ago
  That's really it, isn't it? No one "lives" with depression, we "survive" with it. Depression is little more than getting used to worsening conditions and treating yourself poorly. "Living" stops when that pattern of behavior starts, because attempts to live are shut down by rumination and defeatism. Then introspection starts and you can see the basic issues but can't reason your way out of them, nor draw on the discipline that has been washed away because of them to put in the consistent work to better oneself.
• tarmains_nil 6y ago
  I do not live in a country with extreme lockdown. Neither have I been economically affected by this. But my coping mechanism for depression was hitting the gym. Not just the excercises themselves but the entire ritual. The moment I feel the smell of the place, places I go to atleast 3, I get a sense of calm and focus. I really tried my best with a rudimentary home gym and tried some running when it was possible due to weather. It took me years to build up the gym strategy. It took a day to break it down. After a few weeks in lockdown without my ritual I felt the old blackness creeping back. The complete lack of human interaction other than the synthetic zoom sessions that do nothing for me. I dont feel any human connection over zoom. And I wonder if all the articles of the fun zoom hen parties arent just satire. Like when priests were trying to make jesus cool during my teen years. Lockdown has lifted a bit and I have started to meet people in person again. Always distanced. I imagine this is what lepers felt. Everone goes out of their way to stay safe. Being close might make you sick. I and you are hosts for the viral plague. Out to cause our fellow human beings with unneccesary suffering with our pesky needs to see other human faces. See a strangers frown or smile. 2 days ago I went to the mall for some food and just get, once completely norma, take away coffee. I met an old collegue and she broke all protocol and just spontaniosly hugged me. I started to sob. Unctrollably. I think the last time someone touched me was march. Or maybe late february. I have a therapist. Losing access to her did not bother me all that much. I have no financial issues or physical ailments. I have spent these past few months sobbing, randomly. Pulling myself out of bed, wondering if its tuesday or saturday. Wondering why I could not just die in my sleep so I dont have to face another day of being an absolutely useless piece of space that no one cares about. That hug broke something awful and my poor chocked collegue may never know what an incredible gesture that completely normal sentiment was for me. I no longer feel like a disgusting host for viral pestilence. The gym opens in a week. And if it closes down again. At least this time I know what to expect and can prepare.
  • masonic 6y ago
    But my coping mechanism for depression was hitting the gym Gyms are subject to the strictest lockdown terms here in CA. Mine in SV closed 10 weeks ago.
• brutusborn 6y ago
  I read this after another sleepless night and it made me cry. I have had "go back to therapist" on my todo list for too long. Reading it has reminded me of my plan to get things back on track. Thank you very much for writing this.
• fromtheabyss 6y ago
  I've been living with depression and anxiety for so long that it is my state of normal. I find cover from my feelings by working 12 hours a day and focusing as much as I can. When I lose focus is when depression resurfaces. I finally invested in my mental health in the last year, seeing a therapist and practicing CBT. This has been a breakthrough year for me, emotionally. I am thinking about quitting my work and working on something entrepreneurial related to mental health. I've found that the most important part of self-therapy is practicing what is learned, developing new mental habits that trigger as countermeasures to cognitive distortions. I feel like I'm a survivor of a emotional holocaust where people see an emaciated mind and don't understand the cause.
• SeanFerree 6y ago
  Great article!
• foolinaround 6y ago
  Many coping methodologies have been described here, and the role of religion and spirituality has been scientifically studied to (in the general case) help with depression [1] While I can advocate for the Christian worldview, religions and spirituality in general have advocated for 'giving up control or acknowledging the lack of control' as one primary tool. The religions differ on who to give control to, who is in control, etc. However one approaches it, if one is able to find purpose in something larger than himself ( or fake it till you get there), it keeps you moving one day at a time. When one is at the end of his rope, the belief that there is a more powerful person in control and watching for you, it brings immense relief. Now, this is the belief that one must get ( and this is where the community around him is best positioned to help) [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426191/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426191/
  • dntbnmpls 6y ago
    > Many coping methodologies have been described here, and the role of religion and spirituality has been scientifically studied to (in the general case) help with depression [1] That's what "therapy" ultimately is. It's a religion. Instead of going to church once a week, you see a therapist one or more times a week. Look at the top comment advocating for therapy. It's filled with religious allusions - "taking that leap of faith into therapy", "and therapy is about creating a facilitative environment to alter that conception of self", "In therapy, you are unconditionally accepted with positive regard,", etc. Everything in the top comment is familiar to anyone who was raised a christian. Therapists just took the place of confidants like priests, pastors, etc as christianity/religion decline. The way the "converted" talk about therapy is eerily similar to those who find faith or are born again. But whatever your "faith", there is no doubt that "faith" helps alleviate depression. Whether there is a real neurological reason or whether it is a placebo effect or entirely something else is TBD.
    • javert 6y ago
      Therapy isn't religion. There's an analogy there, but it only goes so far. A good therapist is not going to ask you to buy into an ideology/doctrine that requires faith in the religious sense. The word "faith" in "taking a leap of faith" does not actually have the same meaning as the word "faith" in "religious faith." It's an analogy. To say it in programmer lingo, the word "faith" has been overloaded.
• ignoramous 6y ago
  I feel compelled to ask this though: As a famous story goes, anyone naïve self-diagnosing might incorrectly conclude to have been inflicted by multiple disparate diseases. I haven't been able to figure out what could to tell me conclusively if someone (I or anyone else) is clinically depressed at all. I mean, is feeling of sadness depression? Sadness depends so much on what's happening at any given point in time, and some days are more sad than happy and vice versa. Sometimes, there's sadness associated with a context (may be showing up at work evokes sadness due to recent failures in professional life, say), but coming home to your kid doesn't, or may be it's the reverse, and may be you are suddenly, unpromptedly are reminded of an incident or a regret that sadness comes gushing in... Is this depression, or normal emotional response to persistent stress? I guess, what I'm trying to say is, reading up on depression makes me feel like I may be depressed, but then how can anyone know for sure that they aren't misinterpreting or misattributing the symptoms?
  • diehunde 6y ago
    Well think of this. When you are sad, do you feel like killing yourself is an option to stop that feeling?
    • metabagel 6y ago
      This isn’t necessary for depression. I was severely depressed, and I never seriously considered taking my own life. I did sometimes feel like it would be OK if I ceased to exist.
      • diehunde 6y ago
        I didn't say seriously considered. I'm talking about what it's known as suicidal ideation. You can be sad and down for weeks because you got rejected from your favorite company but I would be surprised if some suicidal thought pop into your head because of this. For people that are depressed is not rare at all. Even people with anxiety disorders have them often.
  • akiselev 6y ago
    Depression is really a large group of diseases/conditions just like cancer with a broad range of different forms, except we haven't yet developed any way of conclusively delineating the different forms like we do with leukemia, melanoma, lymphoma, lung cancer, etc. Just like most adults develop some form of cancer - in the form of benign tumors - most adults will experience some form of depression as they age, mostly as short bouts of general sadness. A small but significant fraction, however, will develop forms of depression that are the equivalent of 'metastatic' cancer that are far more serious and threatening. When people talk about "clinical depression," they usually mean the latter group that have qualitatively more serious symptoms like suicidal ideation and extended periods of depression which lead to ongoing negative consequences like trouble forming and maintaining relationships and jobs, sleeping far more than normal, etc.
• papito 6y ago
  I wonder how often people try the very basic, organic (if you will) things before resorting to chemicals that mess with their brain. I mean - reasonable diet, enough sleep, exercise. A major part of it seems to be a vicious cycle. I once went to a Sarah McLachlan concert, and you know, her music can get a li'l "blue". Back in the day I went to a LOT of concerts, being a 20-something guy in NYC. That crowd straight up shocked me. Most seemed morbidly overweight, and many hauled literally buckets of junk food to their seats. I actually left early because the whole scene started bumming me out. And I would imagine these are the people who would not even try changing their lifestyle and just ask their doctor to make them happy. It's all very sad.
  • ImaCake 6y ago
    >reasonable diet, enough sleep, exercise For many victims this is already too difficult to achieve. The use of pills and therapy are the jump start they need to then use these basic steps to improve their lives organically.
  • Nasrudith 6y ago
    To be frank it is abundantly clear that you do not know the first thing about depression. It saps motivation first to such an extent that the reason SSRIs are a suicide risk is because they wanted to kill themselves before but didn't have the motivation to actually carry out desires. Saying to "just" make lifestyle changes is like asking why paraplegics just don't start crawling until they can walk and deriding them as lazy because their legs are atrophied.
• winrid 6y ago
  Setting aside time to do nothing. Man, I haven't "done nothing" in far too long. I have a dedicated day toward reading, which is kinda close. But just relaxing for a bit sounds so nice.
• 29athrowaway 6y ago
  I recommend this talk about depression and software developers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFIa-Mc2KSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFIa-Mc2KSk There are newer versions of this talk, but I think this one has the most powerful storytelling.
• hoseja 6y ago
  Just make like a roach and survive to spite everyone.
  • foreverloop 6y ago
    Well said
• sas3bot 6y ago
  you can add one more thing to that trello accomplishments list. vishnu.tech ! not all techie vishnus around can have a cool domain like 'vishnu.tech'. just one. :)
• jokoon 6y ago
  I really believe physical activity helps regulate your metabolism, and can really reduce depression. There are theories about gut bacteria being involved in regulating the brain. There are no species on earth who experienced a sedentary lifestyle. To be honest I don't really like exercise. But it's all about avoiding atrophy, at all cost. My country recommends walking for at least 30min per day. I'm not saying jogging and pushups cured me, but it does help.
• mapleoin 6y ago
  I really enjoyed reading this. The style of it. I'd like to read more like this. Thank you!
• rpastuszak 6y ago
  Regarding the point on writing—I've been struggling with depression for some time so I built a writing tool which helps me to refocus every day. It has helped me immensely in the past few months, so maybe some of you will find it useful: https://ulysses.sonnet.io https://ulysses.sonnet.io You can install the app as a PWA and it works offline ootb, there is NO tracking/analytics, etc... I don't even know how many people are using it. More context: https://sonnet.io/posts/ulysses/ https://sonnet.io/posts/ulysses/
• g3e0 6y ago
  I find it very disheartening to see antidepressants described as "happy pills" that "numb your senses". Comments like this only serve to reinforce the stigma around these medications. This stigma is the part of the reason why I held out from seeking help for years. My experience taking Mirtazapine has been the exact opposite. At the deepest point of my depression, that is when I was "numb". Like many people I would listen to sad music when I was depressed, but eventually sad music didn't make me feel sad anymore, I literally just felt nothing. Since being on Mirtazapine, my depression is gone for the first time in 13 years and it's completely changed my life. I still have the full human emotional range - I have good/bad moods (mostly good), days where I feel bored/meh, I cry at the sad parts in films. The antidepressants cured my depression, they haven't given me a false sense of inflated happiness. The question of "am I actually happy?" doesn't even really cross my mind. I'm just content. The only side effects I experienced were 3 days of extreme tiredness when I first started taking them, which then subsided. And my appetite increased, so I have gained a few pounds, but since I was already quite skinny and had started lifting weights, this has been a net plus. I found this lecture by Stanford professor Robert Sapolsky highly insightful - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc - We all get depressed, it's a normal part of life, but depression is a disease which causes you to stay depressed for no reason, and it's as real of a disease as diabetes (we know this because the brains of people with depression look different, even when they're sleeping) What's weird is that, when I was depressed, I already knew everything that he says in that video. I doubt this will make sense, but it was as if I knew it, without really "knowing" it. I knew I had depression. I knew how depression affected the brain. I knew how antidepressants worked. But if you'd asked me if I wanted them, I would have said no. One thing that I have come to realise, is that I had to unlearn all the negative preconceptions I had about "happy pills", and be ready to accept that the medication had the _potential_ to work, in order for it to work. During the 13 years that I was depressed, there were still lengthy periods of time when I felt relatively happy. Unfortunately, this led me to the (incorrect) conclusion that I could cure my depression myself if I just found the right combination of lifestyle choices. I started exercising, eating better and trying to get enough sleep. I tried to maintain good relationships with my family and friends, and explore my hobbies. The depression always came back. Ironically, all this time spent trying to get better without medical help, probably extended the years of suffering, yet it was absolutely necessary to create the conditions that were needed for me to actually get better. The final pieces of the puzzle were: to truly accept that I had a disease, caused by unresolved trauma in my childhood, to seek counselling to resolve those issues, to lose the preconceptions about antidepressants, and to start the medication. This process alone took around 2 years. I am one of the lucky ones, I genuinely count myself as lucky that I "only" wasted 13 years. Depression is an insidious disease. The final thing I will say is that I often felt at the time that the therapy sessions weren't achieving much - it is only looking back that the impact becomes clear. (Also, you don't have to be depressed to benefit from counselling.) Talking to friends and family can have just as big an impact, but therapists are trained listeners, you don't have to explain "why" something was traumatic, they just get it.
• vesky 6y ago
  This is almost a full day after your post and I don't really have anything to add, but I wanted to thank you for writing this post. It was honest and heartfelt. I think the worst part of modernity is the over-promise of happiness and a good life through the constant bombardment of marketing. We grow up believing that we're supposed to be always happy and when we're not, we're told that the problem is us. I have a young daughter and I will always try to keep her grounded about the harships of life and make her see beauty in the struggle for improvement and selflesness. Life is hard, but hard things are worth tackling. There's beauty in the struggle if you seek it. I think it's easier if you know when to zoom in on the day-to-day and when to pan out on the past decade and hope for the next one. Switch between them regularly.
• GoodJokes 6y ago
  This is a viable way to overcome lots of things. All it requires is hella privilege.
• rogerkeays 6y ago
  By an odd coincidence, I wrote about the same topic recently. Hope this can help someone. https://rogerkeays.com/how-to-survive-depression https://rogerkeays.com/how-to-survive-depression
• vietvu 6y ago
  It looks like words I would write. I guess there are people out there who got the very same problem, with very same thought process. And it's fortunate that seems it works for him. I would try.