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This is pattern from this current crop of hyper-partisan political leadership Whether it’s stuff like this, crapping on journalists for asking legit questions

This is pattern from this current crop of hyper-partisan political leadership Whether it’s stuff like this, crapping on journalists for asking legit questions, concealing or even destroying climate data, etc these folks should not be trusted with anything of consequence under any circumstances. The fish rots from the head— even presuming this was the handiwork of some political appointee/apparatchik/barnacle who wanted to make sure there is no “bad news”, they got their cue from higher up the food chain. You’d figure a genuine crisis like this might shake these folks out of their stupor but no luck yet. Many folks are stressed af about the economy & there needs to be be a cost/benefit way to measure the risks, etc but this is no good. This is the kind of shady/moronic behavior you’d expect in a political ecosystem like China, Russia, Turkey, etc

PeterStuer 6y ago
The same thing is happening all over the 'western' world. It is not a US or partisan thing. Neo-Liberal oligarchic 'democracies' rely on people voting against their own interest. This is core. This is why they need the 'post-thruth' culture where 'everything is fake news'.
- xwolfi 6y ago
  Do you propose a archaic-communist dictatorship to solve the issue ? What's the alternative world you envision, where people are forbidden to vote, especially against their own interests (or at least, as perceived by you) ? A true democracy, first tell people not to vote only for their own interest, but the nation's, and whatever they vote for, it's THEIR responsibility. No buts, no ifs, you vote you pay. Fake news or corrupt oranges, the citizens have the last word: they wanted it.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    "Neo-liberal oligarchies" and archaic communist dictatorships are not the only two types of government. Social democracies for example exist as well and are much less of a strawman to argue against.
- nostrebored 6y ago
  Maybe you're not empathizing with people enough to understand their interests. This line is tired and ridiculous. If you can't see why people ranging from poor to upper class might favor right wing ideology, without resorting to tropes and strawman arguments, you're not trying. The same is true for left wing ideology. It's not voting against their self interest, it's voting against YOUR PERCEPTION of their interest.
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  This needs some serious citations. As far as I know there have been no fake numbers reported in Australia for example. Americans seem to have this attitude of "If its bad here, just imagine how bad it is everywhere else"
  - PeterStuer 6y ago
    I am not American, I am Belgian. Over here the (neo-liberal) side of the political spectrum has mounted enormous pressure on the way all Covid-19 figures are reported, so as to 'not harm the economy'. So far the committees in charge have mostly resisted, but the assault is relentless and they are starting to cave on more recent developments. Two points: -your covid-19 figures, if plausible, should be in line with 'excess-mortality', or you should have an explanation why they are not (keep in mind that some major sources of non-corona mortality were significantly lower during lockdown, while others were slightly up). https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking... - Ask one of the ICU nurses or doctors (I'm sure everyone at least knows a friend of a friend) what happens to those that 'survive' the covid-19 hospitalization? Why is it we are only hearing about 'deaths', as if everything is 'just super' if you weren't hoisted out in a bodybag?
    - rurban 6y ago
      It is well known amongst statisticians that several states cook their numbers in different political ways. Belgium is known to massively over report, every death is COVID-19 there. Belgium got famous for having the highest death rates worldwide, which did not make sense at all. Many others states don't test dead flu suspects at all, and thereby don't report as COVID-19. You only see the real numbers later with the excess mortality. But recently (starting with April 24) even these numbers were cooked as they applied wrong models for the last two weeks. They were proven wrong when you compare the reports for subsequent weeks via archive.org. Other known cheaters are Japan, Turkey, Russia, Germany. It's an interesting game and not many whistleblowers or good journalism.
      - 6y ago
puranjay 6y ago
Unfortunately this has been happening across the world. Some people have been convinced that every single institution of authority is corrupt, and that the handful of provocateurs they've voted into power are the only source of truth. I really don't know how we go back from this. Things like antivaxx were fringe movements mocked half a decade ago, but they've been gaining more and more momentum. Conspiracy theories are now the norm and even the absurd ones, like Flat Earth, have more and more believers.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- lopmotr 6y ago
  Actually, religious belief has been declining over the past century along with economic development. I think the numbers of people losing those conspiracy theories are far greater than the numbers picking up novel ones.
  - VBprogrammer 6y ago
    Even if that assertion is true I'm not entirely sure it's a net positive. I'm not religious and I'm aware that all kinds of disgusting acts have been commited in the name of religion. However, at the core of most religion is a strong moral code which is at least reasonably consistent. Random conspiracy theories directing their ire at everything from Jewish people to 5g cell towers, not so much.
StartupTree 6y ago
I hope a moderator wakes up soon and removes this low-quality discussion from Hacker News. Why is political discussion on Hacker News as low-quality as Reddit/Facebook etc? I guess this is a really difficult problem to solve!
- evgen 6y ago
  Feel free to leave. You haven't been here long and we won't miss you. OTOH, whenever this whine comes up someone will feel compelled to post the 'hacker news is whatever news hackers find interesting' link and we can move on. This particular story combines tech, data science, politics, and the global pandemic that is currently re-defining our lives so it is hard to see why someone would object to this story so much to actually make the effort to complain about its presence.
  - cozzyd 6y ago
    Yes it would be very solipsistic if HN ignored the biggest event going on right Now.
  - dang 6y ago
    Please don't be a jerk on HN, regardless of how wrong or annoying another comment is. If you had simply flagged it, it would have been flag-killed sooner and without the extra guidelines violation and offtopic noise. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
throwaway-2020 6y ago
I used to look up to America. It was the country I wished my country was more like. I often joked I wished the U.S. would buy our country so we could live in the 51st state. Sure no country doesn't have problems but there was an aura around America, at least in my eyes. In the last few years I have been living in shock. I can't believe what is happening at the top levels of power. I oscillate between disbelief and anger. I spend most days with a sick feeling in my stomach. I constantly ask myself "How is this happening? When will someone stop the madness?", but it seems there is a story like this almost everyday. I am close to losing hope.
- fit2rule 6y ago
  >How is this happening? All states are corrupted by their secrets. America is no exception.
- oefrha 6y ago
  Might have watched too much Hollywood. Goes to show cultural export is one hell of a drug.
- klyrs 6y ago
  It was like that for a lot of americans, and I think it really pushed them to be better people. But polarization turns "better" into "not them" and the aura has become a noxious haze
- draugadrotten 6y ago
  Now this is what a good Russian troll looks like!
- coliveira 6y ago
  This is not new, but it is getting so bad that people around the world are finally starting to realize that much of the image of the US is based on the fiction it sells. Rich country, (still) yes, but freedom and democracy have taken a turn to the worse in the last decades.
  - rurban 6y ago

PeterStuer 6y ago

The same thing is happening all over the 'western' world. It is not a US or partisan thing. Neo-Liberal oligarchic 'democracies' rely on people voting against their own interest. This is core. This is why they need the 'post-thruth' culture where 'everything is fake news'.

xwolfi 6y ago
Do you propose a archaic-communist dictatorship to solve the issue ? What's the alternative world you envision, where people are forbidden to vote, especially against their own interests (or at least, as perceived by you) ? A true democracy, first tell people not to vote only for their own interest, but the nation's, and whatever they vote for, it's THEIR responsibility. No buts, no ifs, you vote you pay. Fake news or corrupt oranges, the citizens have the last word: they wanted it.
- adrianN 6y ago
  "Neo-liberal oligarchies" and archaic communist dictatorships are not the only two types of government. Social democracies for example exist as well and are much less of a strawman to argue against.
nostrebored 6y ago
Maybe you're not empathizing with people enough to understand their interests. This line is tired and ridiculous. If you can't see why people ranging from poor to upper class might favor right wing ideology, without resorting to tropes and strawman arguments, you're not trying. The same is true for left wing ideology. It's not voting against their self interest, it's voting against YOUR PERCEPTION of their interest.
Polylactic_acid 6y ago
This needs some serious citations. As far as I know there have been no fake numbers reported in Australia for example. Americans seem to have this attitude of "If its bad here, just imagine how bad it is everywhere else"
- PeterStuer 6y ago
  I am not American, I am Belgian. Over here the (neo-liberal) side of the political spectrum has mounted enormous pressure on the way all Covid-19 figures are reported, so as to 'not harm the economy'. So far the committees in charge have mostly resisted, but the assault is relentless and they are starting to cave on more recent developments. Two points: -your covid-19 figures, if plausible, should be in line with 'excess-mortality', or you should have an explanation why they are not (keep in mind that some major sources of non-corona mortality were significantly lower during lockdown, while others were slightly up). https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking... - Ask one of the ICU nurses or doctors (I'm sure everyone at least knows a friend of a friend) what happens to those that 'survive' the covid-19 hospitalization? Why is it we are only hearing about 'deaths', as if everything is 'just super' if you weren't hoisted out in a bodybag?
  - rurban 6y ago
    It is well known amongst statisticians that several states cook their numbers in different political ways. Belgium is known to massively over report, every death is COVID-19 there. Belgium got famous for having the highest death rates worldwide, which did not make sense at all. Many others states don't test dead flu suspects at all, and thereby don't report as COVID-19. You only see the real numbers later with the excess mortality. But recently (starting with April 24) even these numbers were cooked as they applied wrong models for the last two weeks. They were proven wrong when you compare the reports for subsequent weeks via archive.org. Other known cheaters are Japan, Turkey, Russia, Germany. It's an interesting game and not many whistleblowers or good journalism.
    - 6y ago

puranjay 6y ago

Unfortunately this has been happening across the world. Some people have been convinced that every single institution of authority is corrupt, and that the handful of provocateurs they've voted into power are the only source of truth. I really don't know how we go back from this. Things like antivaxx were fringe movements mocked half a decade ago, but they've been gaining more and more momentum. Conspiracy theories are now the norm and even the absurd ones, like Flat Earth, have more and more believers.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
lopmotr 6y ago
Actually, religious belief has been declining over the past century along with economic development. I think the numbers of people losing those conspiracy theories are far greater than the numbers picking up novel ones.
- VBprogrammer 6y ago
  Even if that assertion is true I'm not entirely sure it's a net positive. I'm not religious and I'm aware that all kinds of disgusting acts have been commited in the name of religion. However, at the core of most religion is a strong moral code which is at least reasonably consistent. Random conspiracy theories directing their ire at everything from Jewish people to 5g cell towers, not so much.

StartupTree 6y ago

I hope a moderator wakes up soon and removes this low-quality discussion from Hacker News. Why is political discussion on Hacker News as low-quality as Reddit/Facebook etc? I guess this is a really difficult problem to solve!

evgen 6y ago
Feel free to leave. You haven't been here long and we won't miss you. OTOH, whenever this whine comes up someone will feel compelled to post the 'hacker news is whatever news hackers find interesting' link and we can move on. This particular story combines tech, data science, politics, and the global pandemic that is currently re-defining our lives so it is hard to see why someone would object to this story so much to actually make the effort to complain about its presence.
- cozzyd 6y ago
  Yes it would be very solipsistic if HN ignored the biggest event going on right Now.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't be a jerk on HN, regardless of how wrong or annoying another comment is. If you had simply flagged it, it would have been flag-killed sooner and without the extra guidelines violation and offtopic noise. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

throwaway-2020 6y ago

I used to look up to America. It was the country I wished my country was more like. I often joked I wished the U.S. would buy our country so we could live in the 51st state. Sure no country doesn't have problems but there was an aura around America, at least in my eyes. In the last few years I have been living in shock. I can't believe what is happening at the top levels of power. I oscillate between disbelief and anger. I spend most days with a sick feeling in my stomach. I constantly ask myself "How is this happening? When will someone stop the madness?", but it seems there is a story like this almost everyday. I am close to losing hope.

fit2rule 6y ago
>How is this happening? All states are corrupted by their secrets. America is no exception.
oefrha 6y ago
Might have watched too much Hollywood. Goes to show cultural export is one hell of a drug.
klyrs 6y ago
It was like that for a lot of americans, and I think it really pushed them to be better people. But polarization turns "better" into "not them" and the aura has become a noxious haze
draugadrotten 6y ago
Now this is what a good Russian troll looks like!
coliveira 6y ago
This is not new, but it is getting so bad that people around the world are finally starting to realize that much of the image of the US is based on the fiction it sells. Rich country, (still) yes, but freedom and democracy have taken a turn to the worse in the last decades.
- rurban 6y ago