23 ms·

The 2020 iPhone SE

298 points by FabHK 7y ago

nathanvanfleet 7y ago
I dunno he kind of lost me when he was promoting Louis CKs comedy last week. CK admitted to some pretty bad behavior and supporting him without more than his half apology is pretty sad to see.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mrpinc 7y ago
  What does that have to do with the iPhone ️?
admiralspoo 7y ago
I'm not sure why DaringFireball is still relevant in 2020.
- zapzupnz 7y ago
  What exactly about $current_year stops an Apple-related blog being relevant when Apple still exists, makes products worthy of scrutiny, and is one of the biggest companies in the world? I fail to see what it is about $current_year that makes careful, cogent, and balanced discourse about Apple irrelevant.
Thorentis 7y ago
Those benchmarks are impressive. iPhone SE beating the 2019 MBP in single core performance? That's fantastic! I wish I could comment on or know what he was talking about with the iPhone X vs "old iPhone" interaction paradigm. I personally thought the "single button" hardware interface was an incredible innovation that changed everything. Even Android relies on it. My Galaxy S9+ has a "software home button" (like most Androids do) in place of the iPhone's. I'll have to find a friend with an iPhone X or later to try the new swipe up gestures and see if they are indeed better.
- noncoml 7y ago
  Fun fact: iPhone's buttons are not mechanical buttons starting with iPhone 7. The click you feel when you press it is just the taptic engine. If you have an iPhone 7 or 8, try turning it off and try to press the button.
  - paxys 7y ago
    You can also adjust the "clickiness" of the button from your phone settings, which is amazing.
    - memco 7y ago
      Took me a while to realize this also applies to the magic trackpad and integrated trackpad on macbooks, but it is nice to be able to customize it. The trackpads even have two clicks the second being a "deep" click which requires even more pressure than a regular click.
      - derefr 7y ago
        It's pretty easy to notice with the magic trackpad—it loses its ability to be "clicked" when it loses power/when you turn it off. (The trackpad on the laptop does as well, but I feel like you're just less likely to try clicking the trackpad on a macbook/MBP if the computer's not on. Whereas with the external one, you'll notice it when you go to pick it up/move it around and it doesn't accidentally click in your hand.)
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        The trackpads actually have an “infinite” number of clicks. Try it on the seeking buttons in QuickTime or IINA.
        danieldk 7y ago
        Also a nice feature, which unfortunately not a lot of applications use, is the haptic feedback. E.g. when you drag an object in OmniGraffle, you will feel very subtle feedback in the trackpad when two objects align.
jachee 7y ago
This is exactly the phone my wife wants to upgrade from her showing-its-age, 5-year-old 6S. It'll fit into her existing case. It's not too big. It's affordable. It still has a home button. She's hardly a power user, so this might be the one phone she gets for the next five year, too.
- pb7 7y ago
  >It still has a home button. Why is this a benefit? The removal of the home button might have been the best thing since the home button itself. The gesture that replaced is an order of magnitude better.
  - luckydata 7y ago
    fingerprint reader
  - et-al 7y ago
    Not everyone wants to learn, and there's no ambiguity double-clicking the home button; whereas sometimes a gesture may not register. My parents prefer physical buttons over gestures. If Apple releases a "max" version of the 2020 SE, I'll be upgrading them to it.
  - jrowley 7y ago
    If you're already satisfied by your experience on the phone, and you don't have to relearn anything, that could be a pretty compelling reason to go with the SE.
  - lukifer 7y ago
    There's no disputing preferences. I still feel weird about face ID, and would rather have buttons.
    - pb7 7y ago
      Sure, nothing is stopping you from preferring inferior options. The button is objectively worse. It is more complicated mechanically, it is slower for all of its functions, and it wastes almost an inch of screen space to nothing. The redeeming aspect of it is Touch ID if the pros outweigh the cons for your preferred use case vs. Face ID.
kitotik 7y ago
> a $400 iPhone SE bests a > $3,000 top-of-the-line > MacBook Pro in single-core > CPU performance. Whenever I see these sorts of benchmarks, it just makes me focus on how much iOS is the limiting factor of these devices.
- rubber_duck 7y ago
  When I see those benchmarks I wonder what they are actually measuring because it's very likely not general purpose compute.
  - kitotik 7y ago
    Geekbench is a fairly understood metric isn’t it? It at least attempts to simulate ‘general’ workloads.
    - eigen 7y ago
      https://www.geekbench.com/doc/geekbench5-cpu-workloads.pdf https://www.geekbench.com/doc/geekbench5-cpu-workloads.pdf Looks like a variety of workloads, but lots of things that can be greatly improved with co-procesors. Like cryptography, image compression, image processing, etc. "Geekbench 5 scores are calibrated against a baseline score of 1,000 (which is the score of a Dell Precision 3430 with a Core i3-8100 processor)"
    - rubber_duck 7y ago
      I don't know what goes in to the benchmark but if Apple had CPUs that outperform last gen 35-45W chip with a 5-10w one in a passively cooled 5 inch phone everyone and their mother would be reverse engineering their designs and building ARM datacenters. From what I've seen so far all the server ARM CPUs struggle to reach x86 performance.
      - FrankBooth 7y ago
        > everyone and their mother would be reverse engineering their designs and building ARM datacenters Isn't this (more or less) NUVIA's strategy?
labster 7y ago
I don't really see his attempts to use the new gestures on the old-design iPhone as proof that the new UI is better. People still tell me to "tape" long after it was obvious that DVRs are better. It's simply muscle memory. Still not sure that this my next phone though, probably going to stick with the old school SE. I had asked work for an upgrade, got the giant XR, and after five days put it right back in the box and handed it back. Presumably someone else at work got it. But I didn't want to carry a brick everywhere. Honestly something the shape of the iPhone 1 would be fine -- a little thicker to put a better camera in and more battery, but doesn't require me to take a dual-wielding feat on my next level up. The new SE/2 seems workable -- if not what I want in terms of size. But I doubt I'm going to convince my work to buy me a new phone in this economy, and I'm happy with the old SE, so I guess this one is a pass. It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant.
- elliekelly 7y ago
  > It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant. I’d like to shout this from the rooftops. All I want is an iPhone I can comfortably use with one hand whether it’s $400 or $1400
  - ehsankia 7y ago
    To be fair, different people wanted different things. Some care about cheaper way inside the walled garden, some clanged into their SE for the small size, others keep their old iPhone for the headphone jack, and so on. To me, this has always been the issue with that ecosystem. If the one or two devices Apple makes fits your preferences, then that's awesome. Otherwise, you're shit outta luck. With Android, there's phones for everyone. Want a hardware keyboard? Check out Blackberry or F(x)tec. Want audio jack with a nice DAC, check out LG. Want stylus support? Check out Samsung Note or Moto Stylus. Gaming phone? Check out Razer or ROG. And the list goes on. There's a phone for everyone.
    - robin_reala 7y ago
notRobot 7y ago
> So, yes, a $400 iPhone SE bests a $3,000 top-of-the-line MacBook Pro in single-core CPU performance. This is baffling.
- loosescrews 7y ago
  Beating the laptop is impressive, but the top of the line part was unnecessary and counter productive. More expensive CPUs often have more cores running at a slower speed. For example, the bottom end 16" MacBook Pro comes with a 2.6 GHz CPU and the top end one comes with a 2.4 GHz CPU. Yes, there is Turbo Boost which can in some cases turn off cores in exchange for higher clock frequencies, but good luck getting much out of that given Apple's thermal design.
  - skavi 7y ago
    The 16” MacBook Pro definitely has enough headroom to sustain the top turbo speed for at least most of a Geekbench run. Its not a very large benchmark.
  - rayhendricks 7y ago
    I don’t think Apple is considering the A13 unnecessarily on the SE2. The A13 will allow for it to be “fast” for like 5 more years. Corporations/governments/non-us lower income counties are going to love this phone especially BRICs imo. This was the absolute best choice Apple could make for a ‘generic’ phone to eat google & androids lunch.
    - grwthckrmstr 7y ago
      iPhone SE 2020 launching at about 42,500 Indian rupees. OnePlus 8 is launching at 41,999 INR. iPhone SE is by no means a "budget" phone in our country
      - rayhendricks 7y ago
        Maybe there is a currency/tax issue driving the price up? One plus 8 is starting at $699USD while the iPhone SE 2020 has been available for $199 at Walmart although it is though an installment plan to keep people with att/Verizon. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tomsguide.com/amp/news/hurry-new-iphone-se-2020-deal-drops-price-to-just-dollar199 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tomsguide.com/amp/news/hurr... This also doesn’t include tax, so it ends up being more like $438 for the base model without promotions.
fouc 7y ago
Interesting point that iPhone SE might be hard for people used to iPhone X or later to downgrade to due to the swipe gestures.
- loosescrews 7y ago
  I have been using Sailfish for years which uses swipe gestures similar to the iPhone X et al. I recently had to get an iPhone for work and all they had was the 8. Getting used to the button was really hard. I have found myself reaching for the home button when using Sailfish though. I am completely convinced that the gesture UI is superior, but I couldn't relate to the whole not reaching for the home button thing mentioned in the article.
- w-m 7y ago
  I have a phone with a home button, but this is already annoying: going back and forth between a button-phone (control center swipe up from bottom) to an button-iPad (control center top right). I'd prefer if they behaved the same way, I wouldn't mind having the app switcher on the button-phone as well, and just use the button for TouchID.
mbesto 7y ago
> Once you get used to the post-iPhone-X interaction model, there’s no going back. A week with the new SE has not shaken my belief that the X-style interaction design is superior. Not one iota. I have an iPhone 8 (TouchID) and an iPad Pro (FaceID) and personally the multi-tasking gestures are ridiculously inferior to the home button. FaceID is nice (ApplePay, unlocking, etc) but switching to another app (multi-tasking) is painful in the "post-iPhone-X interaction model". Am I alone in this or is it a learned behavior that I simply haven't gotten over the hump yet? EDIT: Turns out there is some nuance to iPad vs iPhone. I should also note that I'm probably referring moreso to the multi-app interface on an iPad (where you can have two apps running at the same time), which is still weird to me. Sliding left and right makes sense - get it now, but you have to remember what your last app interaction was. Also, weird downvotes?
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  I’ve found it’s helpful if you make a slight half circle from the multitasking bar (whatever the bottom bar you pull on is called) to instantly go back to the last app. But it’s a memory game with what is on your app stack. Was Duo open last or email or calculator? If you aren’t sure you need to pull straight up into scroll mode... I don’t think there is a great solution to this, Apple has surely spent millions and millions every year on mobile UX.
  - phinnaeus 7y ago
    No half circle motion necessary. Just swipe horizontally along the home bar.
    - aikinai 7y ago
      They're slightly different interactions and I (not the commenter you replied to) use both. I feel like the bottom swipe is a discrete action that takes you straight to the last app, and I use it when I'm very confident, like a one ⌘-tab with no hesitation. The half circle is more like starting to activate the app switcher, but confirming the next/previous app immediately. The difference is that it gives you slightly more time to see what you're doing and you can bail out into the app switcher if you change your mind in the instant the apps come up. That's actually the only way I ever open the app switcher; I feel like the swipe up and hold is way too slow.
radicalriddler 7y ago
I don't think I can justify, no matter how good the hardware is, relative to the value of the phone compared to other leaders in the market, buying a phone in mid 2020 without 5G support. It lends its self I guess to my opposition to buying every 1 or 2 years.
- traden210 7y ago
  I honestly don't understand what direct benefit that I, a consumer, get from 5G (mmwave or normal spectrum)? My 4G device already can stream 1080p video at high quality. For every use case that I have with my phone, 5G doesn't appear to offer any material improvement. Sure, the carriers can make more out of their bandwidth, but that's not really something I'm willing to pay for. And, it's not like 4G is going anywhere, it'll be continued to be supported for a long time. Actually, considering the impact on battery life that 5G has on consumer devices... I don't think I actually want it, to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I won't resist a natural upgrade when I upgrade my iphone 8 in 2-3 years, but I'm not seeking it out either.
  - mokus 7y ago
    Yeah, as far as I can tell the carriers want me to want it because it’s better for them. But they have so far failed to convince me that it does anything better than LTE for me. All the sales pitches are about either lower cost to network operation, more invasive IoT, or batshit insane stuff like hosting self-driving car AI in containers that execute in servers at the cell tower and control the car wirelessly. So I’m not inclined to pay anything extra for it.
  - WildGreenLeave 7y ago
    I had this discussion with another friend yesterday, and for 99% I agree with you. He told me about one thing that stuck with me and why I do see some value in 5G networks. He told me that 5G is able to handle more traffic (= more connections) per tower. So on some busy places like festivals or other places where there is a huge crowd 5G could help to let all those people access their internet. Of course you could make an argument of "why would all those people need access to the internet" but that isn't the point. Other than the point above I don't see a value in consumer 5G either. I do not have a source, so if this is wrong then my/his points becomes complete moot.
freepor 7y ago
The most annoying part of Apple is that they make excellent products but their "fandom" talks about the appearance of the computer for the first good chunk of the review.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Part of the appeal of an Apple product is how it looks.
NaOH 7y ago
I use both styles of iPhones, an XS as my phone and a 6S as my at-work iPod and device for random moments of RSS-type surfing. I am not a heavy or advanced user. My preference is unquestionably toward the 6S style of size and operation. FaceID on the XS is great when wet fingers are an issue (often for me at work) and for in-app password authentications. All told, I prefer the one-handed usability of the smaller 6S and that includes losing the newer-design interactions, particularly control center on the XS necessitating two hands to invoke it. In fact, I'm the reverse of Gruber—I'm apt to use old-UI gestures on my XS (not that it happens often, I tend to switch seamlessly). Fine. Whatever. That's just me. What I find more disturbing is all the words spilled by reviewers about all these devices. At this point, not much is significantly changing in what's offered with new devices, so the simple lists of Pros and Cons capture most everything. Using Gruber's review as an example, I don't find a need for multi-paragraph expositions on the UI changes that took place years ago, and I suspect most of his readers are informed enough that they don't either. For the average person, battery life is similar among models, all the cameras are impressive, the screens and speed great. The tradeoffs between models are generally minimal but distinct—just list them. Overall, smartphone innovation has plateaued and so too have the reviews.
- ornornor 7y ago
  I’m with you. I think for casual users who the SE seems to be marketing, the 6S is good enough for a quarter of the price used. Although it will probably not get this year’s iOS update, forcing people to upgrade... Otherwise the 6S really is good enough and compact enough.
  - danieldk 7y ago
    I don't know. People do not take cameras with them anymore and the SE 2020's camera system is much better than that of the 6s. So, if you have the money, I think that is worth the new SE alone. Apart from that, I agree that the 6s is still surprisingly smooth and doesn't seen to struggle with recent iOS versions and applications, despite being a 5 year old phone.
    - 7y ago
JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
I still wish they hadn't made it so big. I use my iPhone SE because it isn't the size of an iPhone 8.
ncdlek 7y ago
I relieved. I should keep my iPhone 7 for a few years more.
gofreddygo 7y ago
Yeah whatever. One thing all the iPhone SE reviews from the pundits I've read miss is how Apple, mighty Apple, with all it's brand loyalty and design excellence was forced by the market to take a stable version of the design and release it for a third of the cost of its flagship. Reasons? * iPhone sales have been dropping consistently. * No new gimmick to drive flagship price higher. * Economy is heading to the dumpster * Apple Services are generating more revenue. So Cheaper entry level device = more device sales = more service sales = money keeps flowing.
- gofreddygo 7y ago
  Downvote with no reply? Lazy.
  - jader201 7y ago
    I didn’t downvote you, but I’d imagine one reason is due to your claim of “iPhone sales consistently dropping” without backing it up. Here’s data to back up the opposite is true: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/01/28/apple-1q-2020-results https://www.macrumors.com/2020/01/28/apple-1q-2020-results
- shrew 7y ago
  I could see why this might've entered into part of the discussion in a review for the original iPhone SE in 2016, but for a second iteration of this model it seems like trodden ground to point out that many average consumers don't like or need change, nor the price tag that comes with that change. On the other hand, the 10s saw a dramatic increase in model variation in Apple's product line. It's been said before but I now have a fair amount of trouble knowing whether an iPhone model is current gen or not, I see people talking about iPhone 8, iPhone X, iPhone 11, iPhone XR, iPhone 11 Pro and now the iPhone SE has had a refresh again. A far cry from the canonical product line where Apple insisted one device was perfect for all... Whether that's a positive or a negative is up for debate. Samsung were doing fairly well until the S10 line where there were three versions of the Note and non-Note models. Google's Pixel line appears to be the last to keep with roughly one phone a generation (though the 3a slightly disrupts that rule).
- 7y ago
m12k 7y ago
Compared to my first gen SE, I'd like the faster processor, better camera and better battery life. But I'm not sure I'm willing to go up in size and weight, and get the rounded edges that make it even harder to grip one-handed. For me, a bigger screen isn't a plus - after years of following the trend and being on my phone more and more, I managed to kick the habit and I'm very happy that my phone has now found its rightful place as a utility when I'm off my computer, rather than as a primary computer. I use it for maps, e-tickets, answering the occasional im. But it's not as convenient as my computer, it's not for leisurely browsing or media consumption, and I don't want it to be - it means that when I'm off my computer, I'm really off. So this push toward bigger screens runs counter to what I want a phone to be for me. A bigger screen invites you to grab it with both hands. A bigger screen invites you to watch more stuff on it, watch movies, browse reddit and whatnot. I don't want any of that, I'd in fact prefer if it wasn't good at that, just like I don't want more sugar in my food.
- antigirl 7y ago
  This is a fair point but everything is online and at our finger tips. Having it on your phone just means you’re not sitting at your computer for longer hours, hurting your back, neck and even fingers.
  - markosaric 7y ago
    Aren't there some of the same "wellbeing" issues with the prolonged or ergonomically wrong use of a mobile phone too? Neck, fingers, eyes?
    - antigirl 7y ago
      RSI's are a result of prolonged use of the same apparatus, switching to phone after long day of computer use would help in that case. Doesnt help with the eyes or the forward head posture, i agree.
  - nunodonato 7y ago
    Lots of people having fingers and neck pain due to phone usage. I see lots of bad posture as well
gordon_freeman 7y ago
> "What this source told me is that while developing the iPhone X, members of the team would typically carry two phones with them: a prototype iPhone X they could use, but (of course) not while in the presence of anyone who wasn’t disclosed on the project, and an older iPhone they could use in front of anyone. These team members would spend time, every day, using both phones. They knew they were onto a winning idea with the new interaction design for the iPhone X when they started instinctively using the X-style gestures on the older iPhone, and never vice versa. When a new design is clearly better than an old one, it’s a one-way street mentally." Gives some insights into how Apple designers think about UX! Pretty cool!
mtarnovan 7y ago
> So, yes, a $400 iPhone SE bests a $3,000 top-of-the-line MacBook Pro in single-core CPU performance. Lies, damn lies and benchmarks? I don't believe that for a second.
- dewey 7y ago
  Why? The iPad Pro is beating MacBook's in benchmarks all the time.
  - gruez 7y ago
    In what, geekbench? I'd reserve my judgement until there's some real life benchmark (eg. cinebench).
highmastdon 7y ago
Nice. I might upgrade my 5-year-old iPhone 6 to the new SE. Hopefully the build quality didn’t have to suffer too much and this iPhone SE last another 5 years
blackrock 7y ago
I disagree. The home button is a superior interface, as compared to the swipe up. By removing the home button, Apple took away another physical control interface. You can still swipe up, with the presence of the home button. Instead of removing the home button, Apple could have used the bottom area to install some other context sensitive touch controls. Like the MacBook Touch Bar. How the heck are you supposed to go for a jog, and carry a large screen phone on you?
jingfire 7y ago
I just wish it has a full screen with the same size. I used both iPhone X and Max. Both are too big to operate with one hand, although I do like the full screen experience a lot.
throwaway7281 7y ago
I bought one old SE from the final batch, just because the 113g, its dimensions are perfectly fine with me. I'd like to write some AR code (and might buy an 2020 SE for that), but for normal use, the SE for me is peak iPhone/smartphone.
Shivetya 7y ago
Significant but not mentioned is the price for Apple Care is $79 vs $149 for this phone (US prices). With Theft Coverage it is $100 less than other phones. Replacement under that coverage is $50 less. For me it means if I want to buy my elderly parents an Apple Watch I can buy them this phone and have a cost almost comparable with existing A13 phones by themselves; $399+$399 vs $699($599 XR)+$399
sldan 7y ago
Here are the measures of iPhone SE (4.7" screen) compared to iPhone XS (5.8" screen): 138.4 x 67.3 x 7.3 mm (5.45 x 2.65 x 0.29 in) 143.6 x 70.9 x 7.7 mm (5.65 x 2.79 x 0.30 in) For half a cm extra in length I get 2.5 cm extra in screen size with the XS. I would have liked a smaller phone and if this were similar in size to the original SE, I might have switched, but the true size difference between this SE and a phone considered "much larger" is negligible (I own both).
captaincrowbar 7y ago
There's a good reason why Apple aren't making the small form factor phone lots of you are asking for: logistics. The new SE requires very little new manufacturing capacity. The case and probably battery are from the iPhone 8; the CPU/GPU/SOC and most of the rest of the electronics are from the iPhone 11; the camera still seems to be a slightly unknown quantity but the specs suggest it has a lot in common with the iPhone X camera. No doubt a certain amount of tricky engineering was required to put those parts together efficiently, but the SE requires almost no new manufacturing capacity beyond the final assembly line. For Apple it's pretty much a no-brainer. A hypothetical "iPhone Classic", with modern innards in an iPhone 4/5 form factor case, would be a very different matter. You couldn't combine the 11's CPU with the 5's battery - battery life would be laughable. So you'd need to use a CPU from an earlier model; I suspect you'd have to go back at least to the 8 to find a CPU that doesn't drain an iPhone 5 size battery like water through a sieve. That means keeping one more CPU fabrication line in business beyond its intended life, taking that capacity away from the plants that are making silicon for the iPhone 11 and the coming 12. The camera would of course also have to be based on an earlier model, with all the same downsides again in terms of keeping old technology going and taking up factory capacity. And fitting all that into a 4/5 case would still be a much bigger engineering feat than the actual SE 2. Bottom line: Even if you assume that the "iPhone Classic" market would be as big as that for the SE 2, it's hard to see how it would be worth Apple's time and money to cater to it. If you want to argue that the Classic would be a practical proposition for Apple, you would have to claim that the Classic market would be much bigger than the SE 2 - and given how popular the SE 2 is already turning out to be, that seems really unlikely.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- coldpie 7y ago
  All that makes sense, but forget Apple, one of the Android manufacturers should serve this market. I feel like there's a sizeable niche that could fund one small, high quality Android phone. It's really never been done; all the small phones that have come out have been compromised in some way. Sony's Xperia Compact line came the closest, but it doesn't use stock Android, which is a huge point against it. I feel like it can't be _that_ hard: there are so many huge phones on the market. Just nix one of those models, put mid-to-high-range components in it, put a small display on it, chuck stock Android on it, and boom, you've just dominated a niche.
memsom 7y ago
For me, an iPhone 6s hold out, this looks like a solid upgrade. The 6s is beginning to show its age (battery is creaky, processor is slower than my wife's 8, camera is so-so.) Tempted to be sure.
Finnucane 7y ago
I've got one on order to replace my iphone 5. It's not my ideal but it's getting to the point where not being able to update stuff is a problem, and right now being able to use Applepay is getting to be more of an advantage. At least it won't have face id or any of that crap. I figure since this has the newest cpu at least it should be a while before Apple obsoletes it.
graeme 7y ago
> I’ve used it exclusively for hours at a stretch and I never stopped expecting it to act like a post-iPhone-X device. I swipe up from the bottom to go home or multitask. Fairly sure apple could put that interface on these phones. On home button ipads you can swipe up to go home, and swipe left/right along the bottom to switch apps. I wish apple would add this, but I think they wanted to keep new iphones exclusive. (The more benign possibility is that there wasn’t the space to do left/right swipes without messing with some app functionality)
bpyne 7y ago
Currently I have an iPhone 6. I considered going to an iPhone 11 in the next few months until the iPhone SE was announced. I like that the SE can fit in my pocket as easily as my current phone. The price is also attractive, although I tend to keep phones until they become too slow and battery life becomes an issue. However, I'm frustrated constantly by typing on it. Just typing a couple of sentences in a text message can take minutes. (I'm a 60 wpm touch typist on a standard keyboard.) It's become so bad that I'm moving back to a laptop for most communication. My phone is coming close to a read-only device. Is the 11's size enough help for typing that it's worth the price? If so, does it fit in your pocket, i.e. how do you keep it on you?
- tolqen 7y ago
  I've never had an issue with pocketability even with the largest phones on the market. I don't really understand the problem. Do you have really tiny pockets?
  - bpyne 7y ago
    Thanks for the reply. I tested with my wife's phone. It fit pretty well so I went for the iPhone 11. It came yesterday and I love it, not the least because I can type easier.
zelos 7y ago
No information about battery life. From the specs it has the same battery as the iPhone 8, but a more efficient CPU so presumably it's going to last a bit longer? The 8's battery life was generally pretty good IIRC.
ksec 7y ago
Does anyone have an answer as to whether the Camera Sensor is really the one from XR? Because so far everyone have it settle on being the same as iPhone 8 apart from Gruber which claims the sensor is from XR.
bsharitt 7y ago
Too bad this isn't based on the iPhone 8 Plus chassis. I'd like a budget iPhone, but I don't want a tiny phone.
ttizya20 7y ago
didn't read, not buying
mettamage 7y ago
Time to do this type of stuff then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP-OPXK2ig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP-OPXK2ig I hope there's a way to upgrade the CPU.
kabacha 7y ago
The obsession with this phone never ceases to amaze me. I'm really trying to get it but I think there's very vocal minority discussing this: american iphone fans. I would never imagine buying a 64GB non-expandable phone with a single camera and such absurd screen for 480€ in 2020. New 128GB+sd slot s10e is around 450€ and that did small form factor _right_. For a tech forum the iphone se obsession just seems so alien to the point where it all feels like astroturfing.
- mitjak 7y ago
  i'm not disagreeing with you but, replace "this phone" with "any iPhone" or "any Mac" over the course of post-OS X Apple history.
  - kabacha 7y ago
    I disagree with you, I'm personally not a fan of apple but I admit that majority apple products can really compete even in non-apple countries. It's a bit extra but you get some premium features like stronger frame or higher resolution screen. With iPhone SE you get absolutely nothing extra other than "apple ecosystem".
    - mitjak 7y ago
      oh yeah. i'm just saying, Apple's audience doesn't necessarily care about tech specs.
- viridian 7y ago
  I used android phones up until like two years ago when I got the SE. You have to understand that a huge chunk of SE owners are in the same boat for the same reason. The Android market let small phones die, and so a 6 year old apple product is now literally the best option in the market. I still don't like Apple's ecosystem, but the phone is small and fits my use cases.
- vzidex 7y ago
  I'm guessing that for most people it's one of the two following: a. They're used to iOS/integrated into Apple's ecosystem, and this gives them a way to cheaply get a new phone that keeps them on that model. b. This phone will probably shoot better photos than any Android at this price point, and even a decent chunk above it. Apple has been really focusing on their cameras the last few years, and the only examples of photography on an Android device that I've seen beat Apple's newer phones is from Google's Pixel devices. All in all, it sounds like this is a case of other people liking different things than you, and that is a-OK :) (and most likely not astroturfing)
man007 7y ago
I prefer the smaller form factor. I'd like to move to a more secure/privacy conscious OS, so I am thinking about switching to this iPhone. Currently using a Pixel 3, I like the phone and well embedded in Google's ecosystem. Wondering how hard it'll be to switch over
KuhlMensch 7y ago
The only reason i don't like bigger form factor, is bend-ability. But thats not a big deal. Next time I upgrade a household phone (iPhone7 and 2016SE) it will be this one
fomine3 7y ago
As an Japanese who often wearing a face mask in winter, I really hope Apple to stop adopting FaceID since they released iPhone X. And now, people all over the world start wearing face masks. Even Apple advertises that iPhone SE supports TouchID. I hope Apple changes the decision for next model.

The 2020 iPhone SE

298 points by FabHK 7y ago

I dunno he kind of lost me when he was promoting Louis CKs comedy last week. CK admitted to some pretty bad behavior and supporting him without more than his half apology is pretty sad to see.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mrpinc 7y ago
What does that have to do with the iPhone ️?

admiralspoo 7y ago

I'm not sure why DaringFireball is still relevant in 2020.

zapzupnz 7y ago
What exactly about $current_year stops an Apple-related blog being relevant when Apple still exists, makes products worthy of scrutiny, and is one of the biggest companies in the world? I fail to see what it is about $current_year that makes careful, cogent, and balanced discourse about Apple irrelevant.

Thorentis 7y ago

Those benchmarks are impressive. iPhone SE beating the 2019 MBP in single core performance? That's fantastic! I wish I could comment on or know what he was talking about with the iPhone X vs "old iPhone" interaction paradigm. I personally thought the "single button" hardware interface was an incredible innovation that changed everything. Even Android relies on it. My Galaxy S9+ has a "software home button" (like most Androids do) in place of the iPhone's. I'll have to find a friend with an iPhone X or later to try the new swipe up gestures and see if they are indeed better.

noncoml 7y ago
Fun fact: iPhone's buttons are not mechanical buttons starting with iPhone 7. The click you feel when you press it is just the taptic engine. If you have an iPhone 7 or 8, try turning it off and try to press the button.
- paxys 7y ago
  You can also adjust the "clickiness" of the button from your phone settings, which is amazing.
  - memco 7y ago
    Took me a while to realize this also applies to the magic trackpad and integrated trackpad on macbooks, but it is nice to be able to customize it. The trackpads even have two clicks the second being a "deep" click which requires even more pressure than a regular click.
    - derefr 7y ago
      It's pretty easy to notice with the magic trackpad—it loses its ability to be "clicked" when it loses power/when you turn it off. (The trackpad on the laptop does as well, but I feel like you're just less likely to try clicking the trackpad on a macbook/MBP if the computer's not on. Whereas with the external one, you'll notice it when you go to pick it up/move it around and it doesn't accidentally click in your hand.)
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      The trackpads actually have an “infinite” number of clicks. Try it on the seeking buttons in QuickTime or IINA.
      - danieldk 7y ago
        Also a nice feature, which unfortunately not a lot of applications use, is the haptic feedback. E.g. when you drag an object in OmniGraffle, you will feel very subtle feedback in the trackpad when two objects align.

jachee 7y ago

This is exactly the phone my wife wants to upgrade from her showing-its-age, 5-year-old 6S. It'll fit into her existing case. It's not too big. It's affordable. It still has a home button. She's hardly a power user, so this might be the one phone she gets for the next five year, too.

pb7 7y ago
>It still has a home button. Why is this a benefit? The removal of the home button might have been the best thing since the home button itself. The gesture that replaced is an order of magnitude better.
- luckydata 7y ago
  fingerprint reader
- et-al 7y ago
  Not everyone wants to learn, and there's no ambiguity double-clicking the home button; whereas sometimes a gesture may not register. My parents prefer physical buttons over gestures. If Apple releases a "max" version of the 2020 SE, I'll be upgrading them to it.
- jrowley 7y ago
  If you're already satisfied by your experience on the phone, and you don't have to relearn anything, that could be a pretty compelling reason to go with the SE.
- lukifer 7y ago
  There's no disputing preferences. I still feel weird about face ID, and would rather have buttons.
  - pb7 7y ago
    Sure, nothing is stopping you from preferring inferior options. The button is objectively worse. It is more complicated mechanically, it is slower for all of its functions, and it wastes almost an inch of screen space to nothing. The redeeming aspect of it is Touch ID if the pros outweigh the cons for your preferred use case vs. Face ID.

kitotik 7y ago

> a $400 iPhone SE bests a > $3,000 top-of-the-line > MacBook Pro in single-core > CPU performance. Whenever I see these sorts of benchmarks, it just makes me focus on how much iOS is the limiting factor of these devices.

rubber_duck 7y ago
When I see those benchmarks I wonder what they are actually measuring because it's very likely not general purpose compute.
- kitotik 7y ago
  Geekbench is a fairly understood metric isn’t it? It at least attempts to simulate ‘general’ workloads.
  - eigen 7y ago
    https://www.geekbench.com/doc/geekbench5-cpu-workloads.pdf https://www.geekbench.com/doc/geekbench5-cpu-workloads.pdf Looks like a variety of workloads, but lots of things that can be greatly improved with co-procesors. Like cryptography, image compression, image processing, etc. "Geekbench 5 scores are calibrated against a baseline score of 1,000 (which is the score of a Dell Precision 3430 with a Core i3-8100 processor)"
  - rubber_duck 7y ago
    I don't know what goes in to the benchmark but if Apple had CPUs that outperform last gen 35-45W chip with a 5-10w one in a passively cooled 5 inch phone everyone and their mother would be reverse engineering their designs and building ARM datacenters. From what I've seen so far all the server ARM CPUs struggle to reach x86 performance.
    - FrankBooth 7y ago
      > everyone and their mother would be reverse engineering their designs and building ARM datacenters Isn't this (more or less) NUVIA's strategy?

labster 7y ago

I don't really see his attempts to use the new gestures on the old-design iPhone as proof that the new UI is better. People still tell me to "tape" long after it was obvious that DVRs are better. It's simply muscle memory. Still not sure that this my next phone though, probably going to stick with the old school SE. I had asked work for an upgrade, got the giant XR, and after five days put it right back in the box and handed it back. Presumably someone else at work got it. But I didn't want to carry a brick everywhere. Honestly something the shape of the iPhone 1 would be fine -- a little thicker to put a better camera in and more battery, but doesn't require me to take a dual-wielding feat on my next level up. The new SE/2 seems workable -- if not what I want in terms of size. But I doubt I'm going to convince my work to buy me a new phone in this economy, and I'm happy with the old SE, so I guess this one is a pass. It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant.

elliekelly 7y ago
> It's cool that Apple made a cheap phone, but what I actually wanted was a small phone and price wasn't that relevant. I’d like to shout this from the rooftops. All I want is an iPhone I can comfortably use with one hand whether it’s $400 or $1400
- ehsankia 7y ago
  To be fair, different people wanted different things. Some care about cheaper way inside the walled garden, some clanged into their SE for the small size, others keep their old iPhone for the headphone jack, and so on. To me, this has always been the issue with that ecosystem. If the one or two devices Apple makes fits your preferences, then that's awesome. Otherwise, you're shit outta luck. With Android, there's phones for everyone. Want a hardware keyboard? Check out Blackberry or F(x)tec. Want audio jack with a nice DAC, check out LG. Want stylus support? Check out Samsung Note or Moto Stylus. Gaming phone? Check out Razer or ROG. And the list goes on. There's a phone for everyone.
  - robin_reala 7y ago

notRobot 7y ago

> So, yes, a $400 iPhone SE bests a $3,000 top-of-the-line MacBook Pro in single-core CPU performance. This is baffling.

loosescrews 7y ago
Beating the laptop is impressive, but the top of the line part was unnecessary and counter productive. More expensive CPUs often have more cores running at a slower speed. For example, the bottom end 16" MacBook Pro comes with a 2.6 GHz CPU and the top end one comes with a 2.4 GHz CPU. Yes, there is Turbo Boost which can in some cases turn off cores in exchange for higher clock frequencies, but good luck getting much out of that given Apple's thermal design.
- skavi 7y ago
  The 16” MacBook Pro definitely has enough headroom to sustain the top turbo speed for at least most of a Geekbench run. Its not a very large benchmark.
- rayhendricks 7y ago
  I don’t think Apple is considering the A13 unnecessarily on the SE2. The A13 will allow for it to be “fast” for like 5 more years. Corporations/governments/non-us lower income counties are going to love this phone especially BRICs imo. This was the absolute best choice Apple could make for a ‘generic’ phone to eat google & androids lunch.
  - grwthckrmstr 7y ago
    iPhone SE 2020 launching at about 42,500 Indian rupees. OnePlus 8 is launching at 41,999 INR. iPhone SE is by no means a "budget" phone in our country
    - rayhendricks 7y ago
      Maybe there is a currency/tax issue driving the price up? One plus 8 is starting at $699USD while the iPhone SE 2020 has been available for $199 at Walmart although it is though an installment plan to keep people with att/Verizon. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tomsguide.com/amp/news/hurry-new-iphone-se-2020-deal-drops-price-to-just-dollar199 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tomsguide.com/amp/news/hurr... This also doesn’t include tax, so it ends up being more like $438 for the base model without promotions.

fouc 7y ago

Interesting point that iPhone SE might be hard for people used to iPhone X or later to downgrade to due to the swipe gestures.

loosescrews 7y ago
I have been using Sailfish for years which uses swipe gestures similar to the iPhone X et al. I recently had to get an iPhone for work and all they had was the 8. Getting used to the button was really hard. I have found myself reaching for the home button when using Sailfish though. I am completely convinced that the gesture UI is superior, but I couldn't relate to the whole not reaching for the home button thing mentioned in the article.
w-m 7y ago
I have a phone with a home button, but this is already annoying: going back and forth between a button-phone (control center swipe up from bottom) to an button-iPad (control center top right). I'd prefer if they behaved the same way, I wouldn't mind having the app switcher on the button-phone as well, and just use the button for TouchID.

mbesto 7y ago

> Once you get used to the post-iPhone-X interaction model, there’s no going back. A week with the new SE has not shaken my belief that the X-style interaction design is superior. Not one iota. I have an iPhone 8 (TouchID) and an iPad Pro (FaceID) and personally the multi-tasking gestures are ridiculously inferior to the home button. FaceID is nice (ApplePay, unlocking, etc) but switching to another app (multi-tasking) is painful in the "post-iPhone-X interaction model". Am I alone in this or is it a learned behavior that I simply haven't gotten over the hump yet? EDIT: Turns out there is some nuance to iPad vs iPhone. I should also note that I'm probably referring moreso to the multi-app interface on an iPad (where you can have two apps running at the same time), which is still weird to me. Sliding left and right makes sense - get it now, but you have to remember what your last app interaction was. Also, weird downvotes?

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
I’ve found it’s helpful if you make a slight half circle from the multitasking bar (whatever the bottom bar you pull on is called) to instantly go back to the last app. But it’s a memory game with what is on your app stack. Was Duo open last or email or calculator? If you aren’t sure you need to pull straight up into scroll mode... I don’t think there is a great solution to this, Apple has surely spent millions and millions every year on mobile UX.
- phinnaeus 7y ago
  No half circle motion necessary. Just swipe horizontally along the home bar.
  - aikinai 7y ago
    They're slightly different interactions and I (not the commenter you replied to) use both. I feel like the bottom swipe is a discrete action that takes you straight to the last app, and I use it when I'm very confident, like a one ⌘-tab with no hesitation. The half circle is more like starting to activate the app switcher, but confirming the next/previous app immediately. The difference is that it gives you slightly more time to see what you're doing and you can bail out into the app switcher if you change your mind in the instant the apps come up. That's actually the only way I ever open the app switcher; I feel like the swipe up and hold is way too slow.

radicalriddler 7y ago

I don't think I can justify, no matter how good the hardware is, relative to the value of the phone compared to other leaders in the market, buying a phone in mid 2020 without 5G support. It lends its self I guess to my opposition to buying every 1 or 2 years.

traden210 7y ago
I honestly don't understand what direct benefit that I, a consumer, get from 5G (mmwave or normal spectrum)? My 4G device already can stream 1080p video at high quality. For every use case that I have with my phone, 5G doesn't appear to offer any material improvement. Sure, the carriers can make more out of their bandwidth, but that's not really something I'm willing to pay for. And, it's not like 4G is going anywhere, it'll be continued to be supported for a long time. Actually, considering the impact on battery life that 5G has on consumer devices... I don't think I actually want it, to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I won't resist a natural upgrade when I upgrade my iphone 8 in 2-3 years, but I'm not seeking it out either.
- mokus 7y ago
  Yeah, as far as I can tell the carriers want me to want it because it’s better for them. But they have so far failed to convince me that it does anything better than LTE for me. All the sales pitches are about either lower cost to network operation, more invasive IoT, or batshit insane stuff like hosting self-driving car AI in containers that execute in servers at the cell tower and control the car wirelessly. So I’m not inclined to pay anything extra for it.
- WildGreenLeave 7y ago
  I had this discussion with another friend yesterday, and for 99% I agree with you. He told me about one thing that stuck with me and why I do see some value in 5G networks. He told me that 5G is able to handle more traffic (= more connections) per tower. So on some busy places like festivals or other places where there is a huge crowd 5G could help to let all those people access their internet. Of course you could make an argument of "why would all those people need access to the internet" but that isn't the point. Other than the point above I don't see a value in consumer 5G either. I do not have a source, so if this is wrong then my/his points becomes complete moot.

freepor 7y ago

The most annoying part of Apple is that they make excellent products but their "fandom" talks about the appearance of the computer for the first good chunk of the review.

saagarjha 7y ago
Part of the appeal of an Apple product is how it looks.

NaOH 7y ago

I use both styles of iPhones, an XS as my phone and a 6S as my at-work iPod and device for random moments of RSS-type surfing. I am not a heavy or advanced user. My preference is unquestionably toward the 6S style of size and operation. FaceID on the XS is great when wet fingers are an issue (often for me at work) and for in-app password authentications. All told, I prefer the one-handed usability of the smaller 6S and that includes losing the newer-design interactions, particularly control center on the XS necessitating two hands to invoke it. In fact, I'm the reverse of Gruber—I'm apt to use old-UI gestures on my XS (not that it happens often, I tend to switch seamlessly). Fine. Whatever. That's just me. What I find more disturbing is all the words spilled by reviewers about all these devices. At this point, not much is significantly changing in what's offered with new devices, so the simple lists of Pros and Cons capture most everything. Using Gruber's review as an example, I don't find a need for multi-paragraph expositions on the UI changes that took place years ago, and I suspect most of his readers are informed enough that they don't either. For the average person, battery life is similar among models, all the cameras are impressive, the screens and speed great. The tradeoffs between models are generally minimal but distinct—just list them. Overall, smartphone innovation has plateaued and so too have the reviews.

ornornor 7y ago
I’m with you. I think for casual users who the SE seems to be marketing, the 6S is good enough for a quarter of the price used. Although it will probably not get this year’s iOS update, forcing people to upgrade... Otherwise the 6S really is good enough and compact enough.
- danieldk 7y ago
  I don't know. People do not take cameras with them anymore and the SE 2020's camera system is much better than that of the 6s. So, if you have the money, I think that is worth the new SE alone. Apart from that, I agree that the 6s is still surprisingly smooth and doesn't seen to struggle with recent iOS versions and applications, despite being a 5 year old phone.
  - 7y ago

JohnJamesRambo 7y ago

I still wish they hadn't made it so big. I use my iPhone SE because it isn't the size of an iPhone 8.

ncdlek 7y ago

I relieved. I should keep my iPhone 7 for a few years more.

gofreddygo 7y ago

Yeah whatever. One thing all the iPhone SE reviews from the pundits I've read miss is how Apple, mighty Apple, with all it's brand loyalty and design excellence was forced by the market to take a stable version of the design and release it for a third of the cost of its flagship. Reasons? * iPhone sales have been dropping consistently. * No new gimmick to drive flagship price higher. * Economy is heading to the dumpster * Apple Services are generating more revenue. So Cheaper entry level device = more device sales = more service sales = money keeps flowing.

gofreddygo 7y ago
Downvote with no reply? Lazy.
- jader201 7y ago
  I didn’t downvote you, but I’d imagine one reason is due to your claim of “iPhone sales consistently dropping” without backing it up. Here’s data to back up the opposite is true: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/01/28/apple-1q-2020-results https://www.macrumors.com/2020/01/28/apple-1q-2020-results
shrew 7y ago
I could see why this might've entered into part of the discussion in a review for the original iPhone SE in 2016, but for a second iteration of this model it seems like trodden ground to point out that many average consumers don't like or need change, nor the price tag that comes with that change. On the other hand, the 10s saw a dramatic increase in model variation in Apple's product line. It's been said before but I now have a fair amount of trouble knowing whether an iPhone model is current gen or not, I see people talking about iPhone 8, iPhone X, iPhone 11, iPhone XR, iPhone 11 Pro and now the iPhone SE has had a refresh again. A far cry from the canonical product line where Apple insisted one device was perfect for all... Whether that's a positive or a negative is up for debate. Samsung were doing fairly well until the S10 line where there were three versions of the Note and non-Note models. Google's Pixel line appears to be the last to keep with roughly one phone a generation (though the 3a slightly disrupts that rule).
7y ago

m12k 7y ago

Compared to my first gen SE, I'd like the faster processor, better camera and better battery life. But I'm not sure I'm willing to go up in size and weight, and get the rounded edges that make it even harder to grip one-handed. For me, a bigger screen isn't a plus - after years of following the trend and being on my phone more and more, I managed to kick the habit and I'm very happy that my phone has now found its rightful place as a utility when I'm off my computer, rather than as a primary computer. I use it for maps, e-tickets, answering the occasional im. But it's not as convenient as my computer, it's not for leisurely browsing or media consumption, and I don't want it to be - it means that when I'm off my computer, I'm really off. So this push toward bigger screens runs counter to what I want a phone to be for me. A bigger screen invites you to grab it with both hands. A bigger screen invites you to watch more stuff on it, watch movies, browse reddit and whatnot. I don't want any of that, I'd in fact prefer if it wasn't good at that, just like I don't want more sugar in my food.

antigirl 7y ago
This is a fair point but everything is online and at our finger tips. Having it on your phone just means you’re not sitting at your computer for longer hours, hurting your back, neck and even fingers.
- markosaric 7y ago
  Aren't there some of the same "wellbeing" issues with the prolonged or ergonomically wrong use of a mobile phone too? Neck, fingers, eyes?
  - antigirl 7y ago
    RSI's are a result of prolonged use of the same apparatus, switching to phone after long day of computer use would help in that case. Doesnt help with the eyes or the forward head posture, i agree.
- nunodonato 7y ago
  Lots of people having fingers and neck pain due to phone usage. I see lots of bad posture as well

gordon_freeman 7y ago

> "What this source told me is that while developing the iPhone X, members of the team would typically carry two phones with them: a prototype iPhone X they could use, but (of course) not while in the presence of anyone who wasn’t disclosed on the project, and an older iPhone they could use in front of anyone. These team members would spend time, every day, using both phones. They knew they were onto a winning idea with the new interaction design for the iPhone X when they started instinctively using the X-style gestures on the older iPhone, and never vice versa. When a new design is clearly better than an old one, it’s a one-way street mentally." Gives some insights into how Apple designers think about UX! Pretty cool!

mtarnovan 7y ago

> So, yes, a $400 iPhone SE bests a $3,000 top-of-the-line MacBook Pro in single-core CPU performance. Lies, damn lies and benchmarks? I don't believe that for a second.

dewey 7y ago
Why? The iPad Pro is beating MacBook's in benchmarks all the time.
- gruez 7y ago
  In what, geekbench? I'd reserve my judgement until there's some real life benchmark (eg. cinebench).

highmastdon 7y ago

Nice. I might upgrade my 5-year-old iPhone 6 to the new SE. Hopefully the build quality didn’t have to suffer too much and this iPhone SE last another 5 years

blackrock 7y ago

I disagree. The home button is a superior interface, as compared to the swipe up. By removing the home button, Apple took away another physical control interface. You can still swipe up, with the presence of the home button. Instead of removing the home button, Apple could have used the bottom area to install some other context sensitive touch controls. Like the MacBook Touch Bar. How the heck are you supposed to go for a jog, and carry a large screen phone on you?

jingfire 7y ago

I just wish it has a full screen with the same size. I used both iPhone X and Max. Both are too big to operate with one hand, although I do like the full screen experience a lot.

throwaway7281 7y ago

I bought one old SE from the final batch, just because the 113g, its dimensions are perfectly fine with me. I'd like to write some AR code (and might buy an 2020 SE for that), but for normal use, the SE for me is peak iPhone/smartphone.

Shivetya 7y ago

Significant but not mentioned is the price for Apple Care is $79 vs $149 for this phone (US prices). With Theft Coverage it is $100 less than other phones. Replacement under that coverage is $50 less. For me it means if I want to buy my elderly parents an Apple Watch I can buy them this phone and have a cost almost comparable with existing A13 phones by themselves; $399+$399 vs $699($599 XR)+$399

sldan 7y ago

Here are the measures of iPhone SE (4.7" screen) compared to iPhone XS (5.8" screen): 138.4 x 67.3 x 7.3 mm (5.45 x 2.65 x 0.29 in) 143.6 x 70.9 x 7.7 mm (5.65 x 2.79 x 0.30 in) For half a cm extra in length I get 2.5 cm extra in screen size with the XS. I would have liked a smaller phone and if this were similar in size to the original SE, I might have switched, but the true size difference between this SE and a phone considered "much larger" is negligible (I own both).

captaincrowbar 7y ago

There's a good reason why Apple aren't making the small form factor phone lots of you are asking for: logistics. The new SE requires very little new manufacturing capacity. The case and probably battery are from the iPhone 8; the CPU/GPU/SOC and most of the rest of the electronics are from the iPhone 11; the camera still seems to be a slightly unknown quantity but the specs suggest it has a lot in common with the iPhone X camera. No doubt a certain amount of tricky engineering was required to put those parts together efficiently, but the SE requires almost no new manufacturing capacity beyond the final assembly line. For Apple it's pretty much a no-brainer. A hypothetical "iPhone Classic", with modern innards in an iPhone 4/5 form factor case, would be a very different matter. You couldn't combine the 11's CPU with the 5's battery - battery life would be laughable. So you'd need to use a CPU from an earlier model; I suspect you'd have to go back at least to the 8 to find a CPU that doesn't drain an iPhone 5 size battery like water through a sieve. That means keeping one more CPU fabrication line in business beyond its intended life, taking that capacity away from the plants that are making silicon for the iPhone 11 and the coming 12. The camera would of course also have to be based on an earlier model, with all the same downsides again in terms of keeping old technology going and taking up factory capacity. And fitting all that into a 4/5 case would still be a much bigger engineering feat than the actual SE 2. Bottom line: Even if you assume that the "iPhone Classic" market would be as big as that for the SE 2, it's hard to see how it would be worth Apple's time and money to cater to it. If you want to argue that the Classic would be a practical proposition for Apple, you would have to claim that the Classic market would be much bigger than the SE 2 - and given how popular the SE 2 is already turning out to be, that seems really unlikely.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
coldpie 7y ago
All that makes sense, but forget Apple, one of the Android manufacturers should serve this market. I feel like there's a sizeable niche that could fund one small, high quality Android phone. It's really never been done; all the small phones that have come out have been compromised in some way. Sony's Xperia Compact line came the closest, but it doesn't use stock Android, which is a huge point against it. I feel like it can't be _that_ hard: there are so many huge phones on the market. Just nix one of those models, put mid-to-high-range components in it, put a small display on it, chuck stock Android on it, and boom, you've just dominated a niche.

memsom 7y ago

For me, an iPhone 6s hold out, this looks like a solid upgrade. The 6s is beginning to show its age (battery is creaky, processor is slower than my wife's 8, camera is so-so.) Tempted to be sure.

Finnucane 7y ago

I've got one on order to replace my iphone 5. It's not my ideal but it's getting to the point where not being able to update stuff is a problem, and right now being able to use Applepay is getting to be more of an advantage. At least it won't have face id or any of that crap. I figure since this has the newest cpu at least it should be a while before Apple obsoletes it.

graeme 7y ago

> I’ve used it exclusively for hours at a stretch and I never stopped expecting it to act like a post-iPhone-X device. I swipe up from the bottom to go home or multitask. Fairly sure apple could put that interface on these phones. On home button ipads you can swipe up to go home, and swipe left/right along the bottom to switch apps. I wish apple would add this, but I think they wanted to keep new iphones exclusive. (The more benign possibility is that there wasn’t the space to do left/right swipes without messing with some app functionality)

bpyne 7y ago

Currently I have an iPhone 6. I considered going to an iPhone 11 in the next few months until the iPhone SE was announced. I like that the SE can fit in my pocket as easily as my current phone. The price is also attractive, although I tend to keep phones until they become too slow and battery life becomes an issue. However, I'm frustrated constantly by typing on it. Just typing a couple of sentences in a text message can take minutes. (I'm a 60 wpm touch typist on a standard keyboard.) It's become so bad that I'm moving back to a laptop for most communication. My phone is coming close to a read-only device. Is the 11's size enough help for typing that it's worth the price? If so, does it fit in your pocket, i.e. how do you keep it on you?

tolqen 7y ago
I've never had an issue with pocketability even with the largest phones on the market. I don't really understand the problem. Do you have really tiny pockets?
- bpyne 7y ago
  Thanks for the reply. I tested with my wife's phone. It fit pretty well so I went for the iPhone 11. It came yesterday and I love it, not the least because I can type easier.

zelos 7y ago

No information about battery life. From the specs it has the same battery as the iPhone 8, but a more efficient CPU so presumably it's going to last a bit longer? The 8's battery life was generally pretty good IIRC.

ksec 7y ago

Does anyone have an answer as to whether the Camera Sensor is really the one from XR? Because so far everyone have it settle on being the same as iPhone 8 apart from Gruber which claims the sensor is from XR.

bsharitt 7y ago

Too bad this isn't based on the iPhone 8 Plus chassis. I'd like a budget iPhone, but I don't want a tiny phone.

ttizya20 7y ago

didn't read, not buying

mettamage 7y ago

Time to do this type of stuff then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP-OPXK2ig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP-OPXK2ig I hope there's a way to upgrade the CPU.

kabacha 7y ago

The obsession with this phone never ceases to amaze me. I'm really trying to get it but I think there's very vocal minority discussing this: american iphone fans. I would never imagine buying a 64GB non-expandable phone with a single camera and such absurd screen for 480€ in 2020. New 128GB+sd slot s10e is around 450€ and that did small form factor _right_. For a tech forum the iphone se obsession just seems so alien to the point where it all feels like astroturfing.

mitjak 7y ago
i'm not disagreeing with you but, replace "this phone" with "any iPhone" or "any Mac" over the course of post-OS X Apple history.
- kabacha 7y ago
  I disagree with you, I'm personally not a fan of apple but I admit that majority apple products can really compete even in non-apple countries. It's a bit extra but you get some premium features like stronger frame or higher resolution screen. With iPhone SE you get absolutely nothing extra other than "apple ecosystem".
  - mitjak 7y ago
    oh yeah. i'm just saying, Apple's audience doesn't necessarily care about tech specs.
viridian 7y ago
I used android phones up until like two years ago when I got the SE. You have to understand that a huge chunk of SE owners are in the same boat for the same reason. The Android market let small phones die, and so a 6 year old apple product is now literally the best option in the market. I still don't like Apple's ecosystem, but the phone is small and fits my use cases.
vzidex 7y ago
I'm guessing that for most people it's one of the two following: a. They're used to iOS/integrated into Apple's ecosystem, and this gives them a way to cheaply get a new phone that keeps them on that model. b. This phone will probably shoot better photos than any Android at this price point, and even a decent chunk above it. Apple has been really focusing on their cameras the last few years, and the only examples of photography on an Android device that I've seen beat Apple's newer phones is from Google's Pixel devices. All in all, it sounds like this is a case of other people liking different things than you, and that is a-OK :) (and most likely not astroturfing)

man007 7y ago

I prefer the smaller form factor. I'd like to move to a more secure/privacy conscious OS, so I am thinking about switching to this iPhone. Currently using a Pixel 3, I like the phone and well embedded in Google's ecosystem. Wondering how hard it'll be to switch over

KuhlMensch 7y ago

The only reason i don't like bigger form factor, is bend-ability. But thats not a big deal. Next time I upgrade a household phone (iPhone7 and 2016SE) it will be this one

fomine3 7y ago

As an Japanese who often wearing a face mask in winter, I really hope Apple to stop adopting FaceID since they released iPhone X. And now, people all over the world start wearing face masks. Even Apple advertises that iPhone SE supports TouchID. I hope Apple changes the decision for next model.