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How Bird Laid Off 406 People in Two Minutes via Zoom
- pjc50 7y agoNote the UK process for comparison: https://www.gov.uk/staff-redundant/redundancy-consultations https://www.gov.uk/staff-redundant/redundancy-consultations This would have required a minimum 45 days statutory consultation period.
- blaser-waffle 7y agoI think what happened in the OP is crazy and insensitive, but 45 days is ridiculous.
- pjc50 7y agoIt's a consultation period. The idea is that as much effort as possible should go into avoiding it, such as providing an opportunity for people to take voluntary redundancy, search for positions elsewhere in the company, and so on. While also making sure that people have been selected on a fair basis.
- reaperducer 7y agoIn some American states, if your company fires more than x people, you have to give the state and the employees 20 or more days notice.
- meowface 7y agoThis article just lays out shitshow after shitshow. What are the chances Bird will still exist in April 2021?
- blakesterz 7y agoI don't claim to be very good at predicting the future, but I'd say the chances are low for Bird, and any scooters being used at all a year later. Maybe in a few very limited places, but no where near the levels they are now.
- ghaff 7y agoThey seem to be quite popular some places. But other places they seem like a fad. There were quite a few when they first came out and almost nowhere to be seen 6 months later.
- CydeWeys 7y agoI'm not understanding why you're thinking scooters would disappear entirely. Here's what I'm seeing. I'm in NYC. We don't have any scooter share companies, so the only scooters you see on the streets are privately owned. And I've seen an explosion of them over the past year. A lot more people are getting around using them, and I don't see why that would be affected one whit by the scooter share companies (which don't even operate here) shutting down. When those companies shut down, I'd just expect a lot of people who were formerly using them to switch to privately owned ones as well. That's the nice thing about these scooters; they're small and light enough that you can own your own even if you live in a tiny apartment.
- moooo99 7y agoI'd assume he meant sharing scooters. I totally agree that these scooters can be a really nice way to get from A to B and if you actually own them, they're probably way cleaner than the alternatives (maybe except for cycling). But the sharing system has so many flaws, I'd assume its very unlikely that they'll survive this crisis. - The scooters are subject to vandalism everywhere, this reduces their lifetime and makes them incredible expensive to maintain - They are cluttering the sidewalks, rules are basically impossible to enforce - They are driven recklessly by a lot of users. While there are technical solutions to this like geofencing and speed limits, they are not applied Lots of people (at least here in Germany) don't like them at all. In major cities I've been to, basically all sharing scooters are used by tourists. While thats certainly a market, its nowhere near the mobility revolution they claim. Basically all of these companies are surviving on VC money, very few cities are actually profitable. Since tourism is completely gone and most people are on WFH, I doubt there are any users for these scooters right now. I think its unlikely that they'll be able to sustain their buisness if lockdown lasts more than a month.
- asdff 7y agoProbably zero. Their rates are already higher than competitors with deeper pockets and more diverse income streams, and my scooter commuting peers actively avoid them as a consequence.
- ralphc 7y agoI'm a retired developer, successfully avoiding management through my career. This is sooo bad, and I can come up with several things to do better, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what would have been a _good_ way to do this. You have to lay off hundreds of employees, ideally all at the same time to avoid rumors & backchannels, and do it remotely. How do you pull that off?
- tyingq 7y agoI've had to do it as a leader...hundreds laid off. I flew around the globe and had a lot of face to face meetings.
- phalangion 7y agoNot really something to encourage at this time.
- tyingq 7y agoPhysical one on ones, yes. Conference call mass layoffs, with misleading subject lines though...that's just lazy and disrespectful. Orchestrating 400ish one on ones via Zoom wouldn't have been that much effort. I assume they could have spread it across several leaders. Edit: From their careers page..."while prioritizing a culture that celebrates diversity, inclusion, and integrity"
- LanceH 7y agoHow about calling an "all hands" meeting and telling the employees who are staying to sneak out to lunch? Been there. Work everyone hard until that last day. Do it on the last day of the month so they have no health insurance the next day. Been there.
- tyingq 7y agoIt's especially awful when it's a company that pushed some agenda about integrity, loyalty, etc.
- bryanrasmussen 7y agoThis reminds me of a story about a top investment bank in Copenhagen (told to me by a long time employee but don't know the level of embellishment), one day there was a big company meeting down in the very expensive lovely cafeteria they had. When people came in they looked up their names and gave them either a red or blue card. At the end of everyone coming in the person in charge stood up and said "as you arrived you received a red or blue card, the ones who received a red card have been let go, please get your things and exit the building."
- mft_ 7y agoI’ve heard similar anecdotes of a sales force arriving for a central meeting and similarly being allocated to one of two groups. The two groups were then directed to different meeting rooms; one group was given the bad news.
- thehoff 7y agoAlso reminds me a of a story I had heard when I lived in a major city 15+ years ago. A major airline was laying off a bunch of staff. Called an all hands meeting and during the meeting pink slips were placed on peoples desks so they wouldn't know if they were on "the list" until they got back to their desk. Heard this from a friend so not sure how accurate it was.
- Scoundreller 7y agoSears Canada (retail store) did something like that. Employees either instructed to go to the Convention Centre (to get fired), or a fancy hotel (for a planning meeting): https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/07/12/laid-off-sears-canada-workers-include-mike-myers-brother-who-starred-in-ad.html https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/07/12/laid-off-sears-c...
- spelunker 7y agoOne of my previous companies handled it this way: We knew layoffs were coming, and that they would happen on a certain day. On that day, you got invited to one of two meetings - one on the 6th floor, and one on the 7th floor. One meeting was for everyone getting laid off, the other one was for people staying. You didn't know which meeting was which until you got there, of course. It was awful.
- ornornor 7y ago> In retrospect, we should've made 1on1 calls to the 100s impacted over the course of a few days." Geniuses at the helm it seems. This is abysmal and shows how disconnected some SV executives can be from real life.
- andrewaylett 7y agoMy observation is that it's relatively easy (not actually easy though!) to appear to be a good manager when things are going well. And that can last long enough for someone to be promoted several times. But it's hard to tell whether someone is _actually_ a good manager until you've observed their reactions in times of stress. If they've reached senior levels already then it probably doesn't matter whether the managers under them are any good or not: it's not going to go well.
- marban 7y agoAt least the guy who wrote the script can now make a fortune selling it on CodeCanyon. /s
- nytesky 7y agoI'm pretty sure Keeptruckin laid off 400 people during a zoom meeting too. Not sure if they called each individually before?
- sct202 7y agoI personally don't think laying people off during a zoom meeting is that bad in itself; like, there are limited other options and all of them could go horribly wrong in their own way. I think that it's really the execution issues that has gotten Bird all the negative press.
- mtm7 7y agoThis was exceptionally immaturely handled on multiple fronts: > Thinking there were technical difficulties, some employees logged-off and were never able to return to the meeting. [...] Others tried in vain to join the webinar and got a message saying it was full, likely because Bird's webinar license didn't accommodate enough attendees. > For the next five minutes, employees stared at a sparse slide with a dark grey background that said only "COVID-19." [...] A robotic-sounding, disembodied voice came on the line. The woman began by acknowledging "this is a suboptimal way to deliver this message." > As the voice on the line was speaking, employees stared at their computer and began to take in the news that they were losing their jobs. Then their screens suddenly went dark and their company issued MacBooks restarted. By 10:40 a.m, everyone was locked out, just as employees were frantically trying to exchange personal numbers and emails on Slack and take screenshots of their contacts. > It did not help that many managers were included in the layoffs and had no idea who on their team had been cut. Some resorted to messaging their reports on LinkedIn to see if they still worked at the company. > [The person who gave the announcement] was not VanderZanden or a top executive. "It was a cowardly move," said a Bird manager. "Travis did not want to deliver the news." > Workers were told they would be receiving three months of healthcare benefits but when they looked into it, they discovered the company is actually only providing coverage until April 30th.
- samstave 7y agoRemember when Solyndra stole $700 million dollars from the taxpayers by accepting a loan/grant from the Obama administration, then paid out a shit ton of bonuses to execs, then killed everyones accounts one night and people just showed up to work the next day to find the doors lock and all their accounts disabled? The CIO took multiple ~$75,000 bonus days and weeks before the closure. The IT manager got a ~$25,000 bonus days before locking all accounts and killing exchange.
- matthewowen 7y agoIs there a relationship between this and the situation at Bird?
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- Nextgrid 7y agoJust a reminder, Bird is the same nasty company that tried to get documentation taken down about how to legally unlock & reuse their impounded scooters: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/01/bird-sends-nastygram-reporter-describing-lawful-re-use-impounded-scooters https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/01/bird-sends-nastygram-r...
- toasted_flakes 7y agoThe Uber cowboys are really a cancer for this industry
- ivanche 7y agoThe world has gone mad if a scooter renting company(!) is valued very comparably to Lufthansa.
- therockhead 7y agoYeah, something is really wrong here.
- Avalaxy 7y agoIDK if they're a US thing, but as a European I never even heard of Bird before. This is literally the first time I hear of them.
- m463 7y agoYou probably never saw their scooters parked haphazardly around town (both bird and lime)
- drdeadringer 7y agoIn the Bay Area at least, scooter-rental companies have become the latest fad the past few years. In some places you couldn't walk 2 blocks without seeing at least one discarded scooter splayed out on the sidewalk or grassy median, perhaps kindly tilted against an alcove or tree. I live on a side street to a side street, and once every blue moon I'd see an abandoned rental scooter -- and I can't even tell you where the nearest docking station is.
- 0xffff2 7y agoI wonder where in the Bay Area this is (downtown SF?). I never see scooters in Mountain View and I don't really recall seeing them all over the place in Downtown San Jose either. The only place I've ever encountered them en masse was on a weekend trip to San Diego last year.
- drdeadringer 7y agoI live in Campbell, which is surrounded by San Jose on three sides and Los Gatos is to the south. I've seen abandoned scooters downtown San Jose and along Lite Rail stops. And yes, off and on when I visited San Francisco. Granted it seems to have calmed down the past year or so but 2 years ago I was seeing what folks were complaining about on other social media.
- holtalanm 7y agoThat IT guy that wrote the script, though. Man, that's rough. It like hiring a guy to dig his own grave. Oof.
- doublerabbit 7y agoI've met sociopathic SysAdmins who would more than be happy to create such a script.
- vb6sp6 7y agoRevoking permissions is a normal part of the SysAdmin routine. People come and go all the time. In fact, it would be incredibly stupid not to have a script like this.
- reaperducer 7y agoit's incredibly stupid to deploy it during the firing process, preventing people from seeing the entire video.
- vb6sp6 7y agoNo one is saying that part was smart
- lmilcin 7y agoGrow fast and don't care about your employees. How employees can stay loyal after company does this at the time their employees need them most? I saw a Polish meme recently: During candidate interview: Interviewer: So... is there any question you would like to ask us? Candidate: Yeah, how did you treat your employees during coronavirus? Interviewer: Uhmm... I hope people take notice and will stay away from companies that have nice words and "loyalty" for their employees only when it suits them. Recently I red how Suzuki did not laid anybody due to 2008 financial crisis and instead cut whatever they could (like R&D, participation in sporting events, etc.) just to ensure employees have jobs.
- robert_foss 7y agoSuzuki and other Japanese companies well known for how they treat employments as long-term relationships. And American companies are known for the opposite. It would be interesting to see how Japan recovers economically relatively to the US post Corona crisis.
- HelloMcFly 7y ago> Suzuki and other Japanese companies well known for how they treat employments as long-term relationships. There are many, many contexts and scenarios where this exact same sentence can be said in a highly negative way. In this instance it is great, but I can assure you that many Japanese workers experience the dark side of this mindset (e.g., stay in the office as long as possible; don't "shirk duties" by taking time for yourself; god help you if you're a woman; etc.). I have no doubt this is not everyone's experience, but it's also not uncommon.
- lmilcin 7y agoThere probably does not exist perfect company. What we can do is to learn how companies solve the problem. Was the layoff necessary? Was the form of the layoff necessary? Probably not. Probably with all those billions of investments you could have made choices that will leave you with more than paper thin margins or maybe you could beg your investors for more to keep the company afloat. This could have easily be a formative experience for the company bringing everybody together and motivating for years.
- jacquesm 7y agoWhat a bunch of cowards. I loathe these polluters anyway, can't walk the streets without tripping over abandoned scooters. Good riddance to the company, pity for the employees. Trying to imagine how the company will survive this but this is about as toxic as it gets and I assume that those that still work there will be looking for alternatives real-soon-now to avoid getting caught when the next wave of lay-offs hits due to Corona.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- astura 7y agoThe most shocking part of this story is Bird had 406 employees to lay off. What the heck were all those people doing? The excessive headcount in these VC funded start-ups is truly mind boggling.
- ThePhysicist 7y agoYou need a lot of people to distribute and pick up scooters as well as do maintenance on them.
- leetcrew 7y agoI thought these people were usually "gig economy" workers, so bird doesn't actually have to pay them if no one is using the scooters.
- whoisjuan 7y agoCorporate employees don't do that. They have "juicers". Gig economy workers who pick the scooters late at night, in rented vans or their personal pick-up trucks. They charge the scooters and then re-distribute them early in the morning.
- tssva 7y agoI was once laid off as part of a massive layoff in the late 90s and was not laid off but was around for a massive layoff in the early 2000s. At each company the layoffs were done by having employees join a conference call where a HR rep read off a script letting everyone know they had been laid off. This is just business as usual but with the modern replacement for the conference call being used. It sucks but is it news worthy?
- reaperducer 7y agoJust because other companies have pulled a similar dick move, doesn't make what Bird did not a dick move.
- josh_fyi 7y agoYou can request a refund though the app; Bird Support tells me that they will make this refund. This is especially important given that they require an up-front minimum payment rather than accepting payment as needed.
- cameronfraser 7y agoEven before COVID was anyone still using the scooters? Hardly saw them around anymore and the novelty seemed to wear off for most locals at least.
- blaser-waffle 7y agoAgreed. Their utility was overstated. For roughly the same price I could get an uber to go a short distance, or just take a bus. Plus I live in Canada, so they're only a thing for a few months during the summer/fall.
- Nextgrid 7y agoA significant part of the technology industry is a big bubble that was going to pop sooner or later - the pandemic just slightly accelerated the process and we're seeing the results now - the market is finally adjusting itself. This company was never viable to begin with, and the same applies for the majority of current startups.
- heartbeats 7y agoWhy does it matter? If they're fired, they stop being the company's problem. As long as they don't have to pay their salary, any method works. In fact, it would have been more efficient to simply turn off their computers without any warning and then send them a text informing them about their situation. That way, the 'time-in-flight' is just a few minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faql1idkAcA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faql1idkAcA
- code4tee 7y agoIt’s painful and sad sad for those subjected to such poor leadership. However in the end things have a way of working themselves out. Companies with leadership teams that are this poor tend to get washed out in the long run. Those let go just get a head start on moving onto what’s next. There are exceptions but the market does a decent job of dealing with this sort of behavior... eventually.
- nogabebop23 7y agoAt first I thought this was a "how-to" brag from bird themselves. Based on what they actually did, would you have been surprised? Please put a little conscious effort into reminding yourself that the way people perform in difficult times is how we should judge character. This doesn't mean not doing hard things, it means a focus on compassion, empathy and aspects outside your own immediate environment. The simple act of truly giving a sh!t gets you a long way towards the ideal.
- rconti 7y agoShrink hacking.
- duxup 7y agoI was laid off via a video call a few years ago. Granted I knew it was coming, but it didn't make anyone feel better when the drone hired to give us the details grabbed the conference room camera off the wall and pointed it at the ground after they gave their 3rd or 4th conflicting answer to questions, and had backtracked a bit on who would receive what payout. The irony of staring at a dirty carpet with some spots of trash was not lost on anyone. Layoffs sometimes seem to get passed to the last folks who can't refuse to actually present the layoff... and they're often not very good at it.
- treelovinhippie 7y agoscreams into the void Everything about the Silicon Valley VC-fueled startup culture is against the goals of humanity. Startup culture: ignores and continues to destroy lives and planet for the profit of a few individuals who will later inevitably go on to develop mental health problems and commit suicide
- linuxhansl 7y agoHow companies and employees are managed in a time of crisis shows the quality of the leadership and the personal courage and characters of the leaders. It also brings out the cowards and people of low character. Every schmuck can manage and lead when things go well. Well, there's nowhere to hide. These things will be remembered. They will have a very hard time hiring people back. And as this make its rounds people will be less likely to use their service. I'm fortunate enough to work for a company that is handling this all exceptionally well with a great deal of compassion for the employees, their families, the customers, and the community around the offices - even when that hurts the short-term bottom line. We will also use some of this time for trainings. That is both compassionate and smart! When all of this is over we will have happy customers and motivated employees and will hit the ground running. Bird will not. Short term thinking and unprofessional behavior like this story never pays off in the long term. Now. Maybe there's a backstory we do not know. Perhaps this was the only way to keep the company going for the rest of the employees. Still, the way it was handled was just terrible. I'm reminded of this example with the same message delivered with compassion: https://twitter.com/marriottintl/status/1240639160148529160 https://twitter.com/marriottintl/status/1240639160148529160 (I do not work for Marriott)
- segmondy 7y agobreakups are hard unless mutual.
- dang 7y agoRelated from last week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22707935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22707935
- stygiansonic 7y agoI found this rather disconcerting: "A month earlier, someone in Bird's IT department had been tasked by his superiors to write a script that would allow the company to instantly shut down all of a user's accounts – computer, email, Slack – with the click of a single button, according to an employee. He was told the script would be used for general off-boarding rather than the mass layoff that he ended up being included in. Last Friday, the script seems to have been activated early."
- apple4ever 7y agoMakes me really appreciate my current company. They did the same Zoom with no chat or participant list. But the CEOs came on video and spoke. They said they debated how to do to this, separately or individually. But they said the best way would be to do it together, with the whole 2500 person company. They said some people would be furloughed. Here is the list of departments and titles affected and not affected. Here is what we are doing to help the people furloughed (health insurance until this is over). It was well done.