13 ms·

The opt-out illusion: how we have acquiesced to losing our privacy

392 points by jrepinc 7y ago

wackget 7y ago
Is that... a loading screen for a text-based news website? Christ.
- identity0 7y ago
  Funny how a text based website doesn't work without JS.
  - brachi 7y ago
    It's amazing how many sites won't even load nor give you a warning when you just opt out of JS (e.g. by using an addon like NoScript). Even very big ones, like twitch.
    - celeritascelery 7y ago
      Twitch I can see. Very complicated interface and chat setup. But I was surprised to see a warning on stackoverflow.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
        On the bright side, SO warns you that it might degrade, but it does actually work fine (heck, I can browse SO in dillo without issue), which is far better than most sites, and actually pretty decent.
        GoblinSlayer 7y ago
        It's a dark pattern though. It doesn't provide any useful information, but is an ugly red hover panel in addition to other hover panels.
    - TheOperator 7y ago
      I don't see how you could remove JS from twitch without gutting a huge chunk of the functionality.
      - mjevans 7y ago
        Do it like they did in the good old days when JS was new and couldn't be relied upon to exist. Don't rely upon it to exist. Serve up well marked content, CSS that might format it nicely, and JavaScript that allows some types of per-validation to happen client side but only as a means of making a page nicer. The server side should STILL perform all data validation, normalization, and verification (assume someone will craft their own form submission).
        yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
        No, Twitch specifically. It's an interactive chat and live video streaming application that happens to be built out of web tech. If you don't have AJAX, you could maybe-kinda-sorta kludge it together out of forms and video elements, but it'd degrade hard, and need to be built completely different from the normally-interactive version.
        mjevans 7y ago
        I was thinking of Twitter for some reason. Twitch could be done with a native app... the phone versions SHOULD be done with such if they aren't.
        Kaze404 7y ago
        How is installing a native application a viable alternative to javascript? Presumably, if you're blocking the latter is because you don't want to run untrusted code on your device.
        mjevans 7y ago
        Twitch does have an IRC gateway, so it's possible to use your own application for chat. As another poster commented, the video aspect can be fulfilled with a number of different methods, and I don't see any technical reason a standard couldn't be followed to allow for arbitrary clients to handle that interaction as well.
    - koolba 7y ago
      On the flip side a lot of sites, in particular news sites, work better with JS disabled. They load faster, the entire content is visible, and oddly enough the majority of paywalls seem to be implemented client side and it neatly bypasses them.
  - userbinator 7y ago
    Ironically, an excellent demonstration of the "opt-out illusion" as applied to JS. It's not one of those sites where the content can be easily found in the source of the page either. The latter appears to be, at a cursory inspection, consist of tracking scripts, furthering the irony of this demonstration. At least a site that calls itself "the TLS" is served via HTTPS...
- titzer 7y ago
  ...aaand now we're distracted by a completely irrelevant annoyance of technology instead of discussing the content of the article and some very serious issues...
  - flukus 7y ago
    It's not completely irrelevant, disabling javascript used to be a way to somewhat protect your privacy.
jgacook 7y ago
I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now. Today as I was browsing I saw several Scientology ads. I know Facebook doesn't have an agenda per se - you have the money, they have the adspace - but I was still struck by the brazenness of advertising something whose ethical dubiousness has been so thoroughly publicized. Facebook will never change unless they are forced to. We have signed away perhaps one of the most important experiments ever in digital social networking to a behemoth that chips away at your humanity the longer you stay on it. People who think I'm being dramatic almost always underestimate exactly how much data Facebook, Google, et al. collect on you and the extent to which they use it to manipulate you emotionally or with your wallet. Every facet of Facebook is designed to coerce you into an addiction that results in you spending more and more time on the site while you consume ever more advertising content. These enormous tech companies are kind of like the fast food of the Internet. They have erased individuality and served us an experience that is mass produced and shrink wrapped for our convenience. It's delicious and addictive, but we keep being told lies about the quality and safety of what we are consuming. We've become so reliant on it we've forgotten how to cook, if you'll extend the metaphor. I increasingly hate a lot of the what the Internet is. I always feel watched and directed to the point where I have trouble trusting what I'm reading, like watching manufactured drama in a reality TV show. I'm planning on setting up my own website as an expressive space where I can go to be creative and try to consume thoughtful content and (hopefully) make thoughtful content for people in return. I'm hoping there's a world of expressiveness and fun to be had in interacting with people on the Internet on one's own terms. Hope it turns out well!
- disparate_dan 7y ago
  I deleted mine a couple years ago and I haven’t regretted it or missed it at all, though I agonized over the decision for a long time because of fomo.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now Going cold turkey is never easy. If you're having trouble withdrawing, consider what I did over the past few years: 1. Turn off notifications for the Facebook app on your phone; then 2. Turn off notifications for the Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera apps on your phone; next 3. Delete the Facebook app from your phone; then 4. Delete the Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera apps from your phone; and finally 5. Log out of Facebook on your desktop. It took me 2 years to go through from step 1 to step 5. It has made me happier and more productive. I still have a Facebook account. But the friction of grabbing my laptop and logging in forces me to consider "is this what I want to do? Or am I thoughtlessly reaching for the crack pipe?" (It's been over a year since I've cared to log into Facebook. Feels more like trudging through spam in an old e-mail inbox, now, than anything compelling.)
TheOperator 7y ago
>But the pop-up won’t let us pass without clicking “agree”. Opting out is an illusion. I mean this is a weird way to phrase it but you definitely cannot participate in modern society without hindering yourself in various meaningful ways if you do not "opt-in" to giving up your privacy. "Opt-in" requirements have consequently struck me as "privacy theatre" which mostly irritates. I don't see any solution for the current privacy situation other than regulation and enough liability attached to data breaches to make hoarding customer data a good way to go bankrupt.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  >> But the pop-up won’t let us pass without clicking “agree”. Opting out is an illusion. You can generally just delete the popup from the DOM.
  - dorgo 7y ago
    Idea for an addon: delete popups, delete overlays, fix scrolling ( which is often broken after deleting popups ). Is it possible to earn money with addons?
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      > Is it possible to earn money with addons? Sure, if you lack your spine and moral compass. The business model is as follows: 1) Make a free add-on and have it gain popularity. Then, either: 2a) Inject malicious code into it that delivers malware/advertisements, making you money. or: 2b) Sell your add-on to a third party that will do 2a). If your add-on is popular enough, potential buyers will come to you themselves. Other than that, no, I don't think you can monetize an add-on directly.
  - bmn__ 7y ago
    The content blocker extension uBlock Origin already comes with various annoyance filter lists maintained by end-user volunteers that do that automatically. https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock#installation https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock#installation
inthreedee 7y ago
The tone of the article dips a bit too far into sensationalism and fear mongering for my taste. While the concerns expressed are absolutely legitimate, I grow weary of people spreading fear for the sake of fear (or worse, clicks) without any mention of what we can do to protect ourselves. Spreading fear and then calling people to action based on that fear is not really leading us down a good path. I've noticed the effects of this reaching normal people. It can be debilitating when they're spoon-fed fear without a corresponding dose of digital safety education. They're afraid of these companies or the internet in general but don't really know why. That kind of environment makes it all too easy for someone with an agenda to step in and take control of the narrative, manipulating people for their own purposes. "You're afraid. Let me tell you why you're afraid and how I'm going to fix it. Vote for me."
- Lio 7y ago
  The problem here is that surveillance firms _are_ out of control and there isn’t much you can do about it. Even if you leave their platform they won’t leave you alone. How exactly can you stop Facebook compiling shadow profiles? How do you stop Google Analytics without installing more of their software? We used to be able to say no to software, now it’s all “Not Right Now”.
  - CaptArmchair 7y ago
    > there isn’t much you can do about it 1. Support advocacy groups that defend your rights (i.e. make a donation, become a member, participate in activities) 2. Send letters, e-mails to or call your representatives expressing your concerns. 3. Attend protests when those are organized. 4. Use your right to vote. Make an informed decision. 5. Educate those around you about viable options, such as they are. 6. Support technological efforts such as they are: document, give feedback, report bugs, inform yourself about alternatives, use them. 7. Inform others, those that are also concerned, about steps 1 to 6. Your civil and human rights are never ever self-evident or to be taken for granted. They are not unmovable natural laws. Their existence hinges entirely on the willingness of society at large as well as individual responsibility to defend the basic principles and uphold the culture that underpin them. So, when it comes to defending your rights, safeguarding them boils down to one brutally simple question: how hard are you willing to pull your weight?
JarlUlvi 7y ago
> They are not watching us for political dissent but for our “behavioral surplus”, the crumbs of data about what we do, where we go, what we look at, what we buy. That is a falsehood, they are definitely censoring/demonetizing/deplatforming/cancelculturing those that do not adhere to their puritanical Coastal Groupthink, while selling our information. FB does it. Twitter does it. Google does it. Apple meanwhile, pretends not to do it, while selling us down the river too.
mc3 7y ago
Ironically this page sent a payload to a domain call permuative.com, without my permission. This payload contains user events e.g. how long I read the article, a user identity guid (presumably a fingerprint of my browser), my isp name
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  HN is ycombinator, which are the people who helped make reddit happen. Is it really that big of a surprise they're doing stuff like this?
  - gadabout 7y ago
    I am not defending HN/YC here, but the user's noted irony is referring to TFN, located at the-tls.co.uk, not talking about HN/YC.
    - mc3 7y ago
      Thanks that is what I meant. Sorry to confuse people. By the way HN by the way seems to be the nicest site in terms of privacy, simplicity and page load times.
sleavey 7y ago
I either get rid of cookie/tracking popups from the DOM (using e.g. Nuke Anything on Firefox, or developer tools) and use a bookmarklet to reenable scrolling or I open private browsing and accept all the junk they want to give. My browsing is basically unaffected beyond the 5 seconds it takes to do the above, and I am successfully opting out of privacy invasion. Unfortunately this isn't simple enough for the average person to do so they'll continue to be the bait for these companies. The irony of the text that says "we care about your privacy" while simultaneously hiding the "deny all" button is profound.
hoseja 7y ago
What the hell is people's problem with StreetView specifically, is what I don't get. Do you foam at the mouth from the prospect of people taking mapping photos from planes? Satellites? I suspect it was nuclear energy-style panic in Germany. They seem to be way easily manipulated. Hmmmm.
- skocznymroczny 7y ago
  One problem with StreetView is that it has pictures of people and cars with a timestamp. It could be used to prove someone's whereabouts at a given time. Yes, I know the car plates and faces are blurred, but when I go around my village with streetview, I can still often tell who that person is even though the face is blurred.
- normalnorm 7y ago
  I much prefer living in a place that errs on the side of too much caution when it comes to privacy. You say "easily manipulated", I say that they have social memory of the horrors of the Stasi. After the fall of the Berlin wall, the Stasi archives were disclosed. The awareness of the amount of information hoarded on so many citizens with the help of friends, family & neighbors was deeply traumatic. Some people even decided they didn't want to know, so that they wouldn't find something about someone close that was hard to forgive. In my view, this cultural and social memory makes the Germans less insane on the topic of privacy, not more. We can see very well how in most of the modern world how insidious the process is. We make small concessions, little by little, and soon we live under total surveillance. It doesn't seem like that long ago that using your real identity on the internet was considered unwise. Now people are voluntarily giving deeply personal information to shady operations such as FB. I hope the Germans are not convinced by people like you, and that they remain healthily paranoid about privacy. It's one of the things I appreciate the most about living here. I feel the laws actually protect me against the bad guys on this topic.
jwr 7y ago
Oh, the irony of this article slamming me in the face with a sleazy "We need your consent" dialog with intentionally confusing options and sub-dialogs... My "consent" is being forced out of me so that roughly ~100 (at a first glance) "partners" can invade my privacy and learn about my browsing habits. By the way, if you are a programmer and you implement those sleazy dialogs, think about your life choices.
- fmajid 7y ago
  On the positive side, the Quantcast cookie popups now offer a choice between "Accept All" and "Reject All". Previously they offered "Accept All" or "Click here to enter our deliberately confusing rat's warren of options". I wonder if the French DPA's announcement that they will start cracking down on dark patterns like this was the impetus for the change.
  - jwr 7y ago
    Well, it's true that this popup was slightly less sleazy and misleading, but it wasn't that great, either. Just for reference (since it is obviously needed), if someone really DOES want to slam readers in the face with a popup as the first thing they see, here is some non-confusing wording: "Do you agree to be tracked using cookies by 134 advertising companies (link to full list)?" Two large buttons: "Yes" "No". Yes or No. Not "Configure", not "adjust my preferences", not "Leave" which doesn't actually leave, not "Settings" which takes you to a list of all the "partners" with individual switches, no dark patterns. Yes or no.
    - Xelbair 7y ago
      >Yes or No. Not "Configure", not "adjust my preferences", not "Leave" which doesn't actually leave, not "Settings" which takes you to a list of all the "partners" with individual switches, no dark patterns. Yes or no. Even worse when the switches are made in such way that you have no idea whether you are opting-in or out.
      - thebudgie 7y ago
ppod 7y ago
Starting an article about facebook privacy concerns with comparisons to the Stasi and typhoid just turns me off straight away. This kind of thing is so tired, not to mention insulting to actual victims of the Stasi.
mumblemumble 7y ago
Like the YouTube video says, this sort of thing is really as simple as tea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ
Maascamp 7y ago
Just wish these articles would address the amount of content and utility we get in exchange for our data (instead of our money) and speak to the trade-off. Until we find a better way to financially support all of the things we consume on the web, I'm not sure I see anything changing.
sneak 7y ago
> we supposedly have control, but “no cookies at all, ever” is not an option I browse the web with cookies off for sites by default. It's an option in almost every browser.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

392 points by jrepinc 7y ago

wackget 7y ago

Is that... a loading screen for a text-based news website? Christ.

identity0 7y ago
Funny how a text based website doesn't work without JS.
- brachi 7y ago
  It's amazing how many sites won't even load nor give you a warning when you just opt out of JS (e.g. by using an addon like NoScript). Even very big ones, like twitch.
  - celeritascelery 7y ago
    Twitch I can see. Very complicated interface and chat setup. But I was surprised to see a warning on stackoverflow.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
      On the bright side, SO warns you that it might degrade, but it does actually work fine (heck, I can browse SO in dillo without issue), which is far better than most sites, and actually pretty decent.
      - GoblinSlayer 7y ago
        It's a dark pattern though. It doesn't provide any useful information, but is an ugly red hover panel in addition to other hover panels.
  - TheOperator 7y ago
    I don't see how you could remove JS from twitch without gutting a huge chunk of the functionality.
    - mjevans 7y ago
      Do it like they did in the good old days when JS was new and couldn't be relied upon to exist. Don't rely upon it to exist. Serve up well marked content, CSS that might format it nicely, and JavaScript that allows some types of per-validation to happen client side but only as a means of making a page nicer. The server side should STILL perform all data validation, normalization, and verification (assume someone will craft their own form submission).
      - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
        No, Twitch specifically. It's an interactive chat and live video streaming application that happens to be built out of web tech. If you don't have AJAX, you could maybe-kinda-sorta kludge it together out of forms and video elements, but it'd degrade hard, and need to be built completely different from the normally-interactive version.
        mjevans 7y ago
        I was thinking of Twitter for some reason. Twitch could be done with a native app... the phone versions SHOULD be done with such if they aren't.
        Kaze404 7y ago
        How is installing a native application a viable alternative to javascript? Presumably, if you're blocking the latter is because you don't want to run untrusted code on your device.
        mjevans 7y ago
        Twitch does have an IRC gateway, so it's possible to use your own application for chat. As another poster commented, the video aspect can be fulfilled with a number of different methods, and I don't see any technical reason a standard couldn't be followed to allow for arbitrary clients to handle that interaction as well.
  - koolba 7y ago
    On the flip side a lot of sites, in particular news sites, work better with JS disabled. They load faster, the entire content is visible, and oddly enough the majority of paywalls seem to be implemented client side and it neatly bypasses them.
- userbinator 7y ago
  Ironically, an excellent demonstration of the "opt-out illusion" as applied to JS. It's not one of those sites where the content can be easily found in the source of the page either. The latter appears to be, at a cursory inspection, consist of tracking scripts, furthering the irony of this demonstration. At least a site that calls itself "the TLS" is served via HTTPS...
titzer 7y ago
...aaand now we're distracted by a completely irrelevant annoyance of technology instead of discussing the content of the article and some very serious issues...
- flukus 7y ago
  It's not completely irrelevant, disabling javascript used to be a way to somewhat protect your privacy.

jgacook 7y ago

I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now. Today as I was browsing I saw several Scientology ads. I know Facebook doesn't have an agenda per se - you have the money, they have the adspace - but I was still struck by the brazenness of advertising something whose ethical dubiousness has been so thoroughly publicized. Facebook will never change unless they are forced to. We have signed away perhaps one of the most important experiments ever in digital social networking to a behemoth that chips away at your humanity the longer you stay on it. People who think I'm being dramatic almost always underestimate exactly how much data Facebook, Google, et al. collect on you and the extent to which they use it to manipulate you emotionally or with your wallet. Every facet of Facebook is designed to coerce you into an addiction that results in you spending more and more time on the site while you consume ever more advertising content. These enormous tech companies are kind of like the fast food of the Internet. They have erased individuality and served us an experience that is mass produced and shrink wrapped for our convenience. It's delicious and addictive, but we keep being told lies about the quality and safety of what we are consuming. We've become so reliant on it we've forgotten how to cook, if you'll extend the metaphor. I increasingly hate a lot of the what the Internet is. I always feel watched and directed to the point where I have trouble trusting what I'm reading, like watching manufactured drama in a reality TV show. I'm planning on setting up my own website as an expressive space where I can go to be creative and try to consume thoughtful content and (hopefully) make thoughtful content for people in return. I'm hoping there's a world of expressiveness and fun to be had in interacting with people on the Internet on one's own terms. Hope it turns out well!

disparate_dan 7y ago
I deleted mine a couple years ago and I haven’t regretted it or missed it at all, though I agonized over the decision for a long time because of fomo.
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> I have been mulling cancelling my Facebook account for a while now Going cold turkey is never easy. If you're having trouble withdrawing, consider what I did over the past few years: 1. Turn off notifications for the Facebook app on your phone; then 2. Turn off notifications for the Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera apps on your phone; next 3. Delete the Facebook app from your phone; then 4. Delete the Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera apps from your phone; and finally 5. Log out of Facebook on your desktop. It took me 2 years to go through from step 1 to step 5. It has made me happier and more productive. I still have a Facebook account. But the friction of grabbing my laptop and logging in forces me to consider "is this what I want to do? Or am I thoughtlessly reaching for the crack pipe?" (It's been over a year since I've cared to log into Facebook. Feels more like trudging through spam in an old e-mail inbox, now, than anything compelling.)

TheOperator 7y ago

>But the pop-up won’t let us pass without clicking “agree”. Opting out is an illusion. I mean this is a weird way to phrase it but you definitely cannot participate in modern society without hindering yourself in various meaningful ways if you do not "opt-in" to giving up your privacy. "Opt-in" requirements have consequently struck me as "privacy theatre" which mostly irritates. I don't see any solution for the current privacy situation other than regulation and enough liability attached to data breaches to make hoarding customer data a good way to go bankrupt.

thaumasiotes 7y ago
>> But the pop-up won’t let us pass without clicking “agree”. Opting out is an illusion. You can generally just delete the popup from the DOM.
- dorgo 7y ago
  Idea for an addon: delete popups, delete overlays, fix scrolling ( which is often broken after deleting popups ). Is it possible to earn money with addons?
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > Is it possible to earn money with addons? Sure, if you lack your spine and moral compass. The business model is as follows: 1) Make a free add-on and have it gain popularity. Then, either: 2a) Inject malicious code into it that delivers malware/advertisements, making you money. or: 2b) Sell your add-on to a third party that will do 2a). If your add-on is popular enough, potential buyers will come to you themselves. Other than that, no, I don't think you can monetize an add-on directly.
- bmn__ 7y ago
  The content blocker extension uBlock Origin already comes with various annoyance filter lists maintained by end-user volunteers that do that automatically. https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock#installation https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock#installation

inthreedee 7y ago

The tone of the article dips a bit too far into sensationalism and fear mongering for my taste. While the concerns expressed are absolutely legitimate, I grow weary of people spreading fear for the sake of fear (or worse, clicks) without any mention of what we can do to protect ourselves. Spreading fear and then calling people to action based on that fear is not really leading us down a good path. I've noticed the effects of this reaching normal people. It can be debilitating when they're spoon-fed fear without a corresponding dose of digital safety education. They're afraid of these companies or the internet in general but don't really know why. That kind of environment makes it all too easy for someone with an agenda to step in and take control of the narrative, manipulating people for their own purposes. "You're afraid. Let me tell you why you're afraid and how I'm going to fix it. Vote for me."

Lio 7y ago
The problem here is that surveillance firms _are_ out of control and there isn’t much you can do about it. Even if you leave their platform they won’t leave you alone. How exactly can you stop Facebook compiling shadow profiles? How do you stop Google Analytics without installing more of their software? We used to be able to say no to software, now it’s all “Not Right Now”.
- CaptArmchair 7y ago
  > there isn’t much you can do about it 1. Support advocacy groups that defend your rights (i.e. make a donation, become a member, participate in activities) 2. Send letters, e-mails to or call your representatives expressing your concerns. 3. Attend protests when those are organized. 4. Use your right to vote. Make an informed decision. 5. Educate those around you about viable options, such as they are. 6. Support technological efforts such as they are: document, give feedback, report bugs, inform yourself about alternatives, use them. 7. Inform others, those that are also concerned, about steps 1 to 6. Your civil and human rights are never ever self-evident or to be taken for granted. They are not unmovable natural laws. Their existence hinges entirely on the willingness of society at large as well as individual responsibility to defend the basic principles and uphold the culture that underpin them. So, when it comes to defending your rights, safeguarding them boils down to one brutally simple question: how hard are you willing to pull your weight?

JarlUlvi 7y ago

> They are not watching us for political dissent but for our “behavioral surplus”, the crumbs of data about what we do, where we go, what we look at, what we buy. That is a falsehood, they are definitely censoring/demonetizing/deplatforming/cancelculturing those that do not adhere to their puritanical Coastal Groupthink, while selling our information. FB does it. Twitter does it. Google does it. Apple meanwhile, pretends not to do it, while selling us down the river too.

mc3 7y ago

Ironically this page sent a payload to a domain call permuative.com, without my permission. This payload contains user events e.g. how long I read the article, a user identity guid (presumably a fingerprint of my browser), my isp name

blaser-waffle 7y ago
HN is ycombinator, which are the people who helped make reddit happen. Is it really that big of a surprise they're doing stuff like this?
- gadabout 7y ago
  I am not defending HN/YC here, but the user's noted irony is referring to TFN, located at the-tls.co.uk, not talking about HN/YC.
  - mc3 7y ago
    Thanks that is what I meant. Sorry to confuse people. By the way HN by the way seems to be the nicest site in terms of privacy, simplicity and page load times.

sleavey 7y ago

I either get rid of cookie/tracking popups from the DOM (using e.g. Nuke Anything on Firefox, or developer tools) and use a bookmarklet to reenable scrolling or I open private browsing and accept all the junk they want to give. My browsing is basically unaffected beyond the 5 seconds it takes to do the above, and I am successfully opting out of privacy invasion. Unfortunately this isn't simple enough for the average person to do so they'll continue to be the bait for these companies. The irony of the text that says "we care about your privacy" while simultaneously hiding the "deny all" button is profound.

hoseja 7y ago

What the hell is people's problem with StreetView specifically, is what I don't get. Do you foam at the mouth from the prospect of people taking mapping photos from planes? Satellites? I suspect it was nuclear energy-style panic in Germany. They seem to be way easily manipulated. Hmmmm.

skocznymroczny 7y ago
One problem with StreetView is that it has pictures of people and cars with a timestamp. It could be used to prove someone's whereabouts at a given time. Yes, I know the car plates and faces are blurred, but when I go around my village with streetview, I can still often tell who that person is even though the face is blurred.
normalnorm 7y ago
I much prefer living in a place that errs on the side of too much caution when it comes to privacy. You say "easily manipulated", I say that they have social memory of the horrors of the Stasi. After the fall of the Berlin wall, the Stasi archives were disclosed. The awareness of the amount of information hoarded on so many citizens with the help of friends, family & neighbors was deeply traumatic. Some people even decided they didn't want to know, so that they wouldn't find something about someone close that was hard to forgive. In my view, this cultural and social memory makes the Germans less insane on the topic of privacy, not more. We can see very well how in most of the modern world how insidious the process is. We make small concessions, little by little, and soon we live under total surveillance. It doesn't seem like that long ago that using your real identity on the internet was considered unwise. Now people are voluntarily giving deeply personal information to shady operations such as FB. I hope the Germans are not convinced by people like you, and that they remain healthily paranoid about privacy. It's one of the things I appreciate the most about living here. I feel the laws actually protect me against the bad guys on this topic.

jwr 7y ago

Oh, the irony of this article slamming me in the face with a sleazy "We need your consent" dialog with intentionally confusing options and sub-dialogs... My "consent" is being forced out of me so that roughly ~100 (at a first glance) "partners" can invade my privacy and learn about my browsing habits. By the way, if you are a programmer and you implement those sleazy dialogs, think about your life choices.

fmajid 7y ago
On the positive side, the Quantcast cookie popups now offer a choice between "Accept All" and "Reject All". Previously they offered "Accept All" or "Click here to enter our deliberately confusing rat's warren of options". I wonder if the French DPA's announcement that they will start cracking down on dark patterns like this was the impetus for the change.
- jwr 7y ago
  Well, it's true that this popup was slightly less sleazy and misleading, but it wasn't that great, either. Just for reference (since it is obviously needed), if someone really DOES want to slam readers in the face with a popup as the first thing they see, here is some non-confusing wording: "Do you agree to be tracked using cookies by 134 advertising companies (link to full list)?" Two large buttons: "Yes" "No". Yes or No. Not "Configure", not "adjust my preferences", not "Leave" which doesn't actually leave, not "Settings" which takes you to a list of all the "partners" with individual switches, no dark patterns. Yes or no.
  - Xelbair 7y ago
    >Yes or No. Not "Configure", not "adjust my preferences", not "Leave" which doesn't actually leave, not "Settings" which takes you to a list of all the "partners" with individual switches, no dark patterns. Yes or no. Even worse when the switches are made in such way that you have no idea whether you are opting-in or out.
    - thebudgie 7y ago

ppod 7y ago

Starting an article about facebook privacy concerns with comparisons to the Stasi and typhoid just turns me off straight away. This kind of thing is so tired, not to mention insulting to actual victims of the Stasi.

mumblemumble 7y ago

Like the YouTube video says, this sort of thing is really as simple as tea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ

Maascamp 7y ago

Just wish these articles would address the amount of content and utility we get in exchange for our data (instead of our money) and speak to the trade-off. Until we find a better way to financially support all of the things we consume on the web, I'm not sure I see anything changing.

sneak 7y ago

> we supposedly have control, but “no cookies at all, ever” is not an option I browse the web with cookies off for sites by default. It's an option in almost every browser.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]