12 ms·

‘Re-education’, forced labour and surveillance beyond Xinjiang

255 points by hardmaru 7y ago

yellow_lead 7y ago
For a list of Uyghurs that are missing or detained, see https://www.shahit.biz/eng/ https://www.shahit.biz/eng/ Also, if you speak Mandarin or have other related language skills (Turkish, Russian, Uyghur, etc), there are volunteer positions!
- telesilla 7y ago
  Aside from not purchasing from the listed companies, is there other action that can be taken in support, from a distance?
  - thoughtstheseus 7y ago
    Talk to people about this. Inform others.
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    Call / email your political representatives, for one. They are the ones who can enact sanctions against the Chinese dictatorship.
  - Melting_Harps 7y ago
    > Aside from not purchasing from the listed companies, is there other action that can be taken in support, from a distance? Support the Hong Kong Revolution, they're literately the front line when it comes to encroachment from the CCP. If/when they succeed then the notion of 'One China' policy falls in shambles; Taiwan, Macau and possibly Tibet are all in good strategic positions to rise up and contest it as well now that China is weakened economically.
    - Melting_Harps 7y ago
      Follow up with Documentary from Daily Apple (Jimmy Lai was recently arrested for his involvement with the protests) this should be a good preface for what is happening in HK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=ldRsqmr5sQs&feature=emb_title https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=ldRsqmr5sQs&... Update: I was wondering when the pro-ccp mainland brigade would show up.
  - yellow_lead 7y ago
    Donate to Gene / shahit https://www.gofundme.com/xinjiang-victims-database-testimony-imports https://www.gofundme.com/xinjiang-victims-database-testimony...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
bespokedevelopr 7y ago
here is the list of companies they named as using Uyghur labor, >In all, ASPI’s research has identified 83 foreign and Chinese companies directly or indirectly benefiting from the use of Uyghur workers outside Xinjiang through potentially abusive labour transfer programs as recently as 2019: Abercrombie & Fitch, Acer, Adidas, Alstom, Amazon, Apple, ASUS, BAIC Motor, BMW, Bombardier, Bosch, BYD, Calvin Klein, Candy, Carter’s, Cerruti 1881, Changan Automobile, Cisco, CRRC, Dell, Electrolux, Fila, Founder Group, GAC Group (automobiles), Gap, Geely Auto, General Electric, General Motors, Google, H&M, Haier, Hart Schaffner Marx, Hisense, Hitachi, HP, HTC, Huawei, iFlyTek, Jack & Jones, Jaguar, Japan Display Inc., L.L.Bean, Lacoste, Land Rover, Lenovo, LG, Li-Ning, Mayor, Meizu, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Microsoft, Mitsubishi, Mitsumi, Nike, Nintendo, Nokia, The North Face, Oculus, Oppo, Panasonic, Polo Ralph Lauren, Puma, Roewe, SAIC Motor, Samsung, SGMW, Sharp, Siemens, Skechers, Sony, TDK, Tommy Hilfiger, Toshiba, Tsinghua Tongfang, Uniqlo, Victoria’s Secret, Vivo, Volkswagen, Xiaomi, Zara, Zegna, ZTE. Some brands are linked with multiple factories.
- anticensor 7y ago
  Very few multinational giants remain if you protest all these.
  - sounds 7y ago
    Slavery is still wrong. Full stop.
    - omginternets 7y ago
      And there's no clear solution. Full stop.
      - marcosdumay 7y ago
        The solution is very clear. It just has to come from the government, not individual consumers.
        7y ago
lucian1900 7y ago
That’s the western media narrative. Consider what the other side is saying too https://youtu.be/u4cYE6E27_g https://youtu.be/u4cYE6E27_g
- justicezyx 7y ago
  Second this! A lot of people criticizing, but was from the human rights perspective. While it's important to debunk the lies about terrorisms happened in Xinjiang, which was used by Chinese propaganda to disguise as the legitimate excuse and secured the support from the Chinese citizens, even people living in Xinjiang.
  - drieddust 7y ago
    What China is doing is terrible but elephant in the room can't be ignored. Islamist around the world are responsible for causing a lot of human suffering. It is pattern which can't be ignored. Look at what happened recently in Delhi.
    - iLemming 7y ago
      It's so easy to label an entire nation as Islamists, Zionists, fascists, and other "-ists." Millions of people, human beings. Children, mothers, fathers, their elders. You'd think in the 21st century, we'd finally learned from our own mistakes of the past. Alas, nothing much changed, probably for over 3 million years, from the time when Lucy the Australopithecus has walked on this planet. We are still the same idiots, always striving for self-extinction and complete annihilation of our habitat. Uygurs are the descendants of ancient clans of merchants and craftsmen. They've peacefully thrived even under Chengiz Khan's reign. There are hundreds of thousands of them in Turkey, in Central Asia, in other countries. Somehow Kazakhstan doesn't seem to be eager to build "re-education camps" for them. You speak like radicalism is some virus that needs to be controlled, and those people en-mass need to be quarantined and "cured." All religions and any radical movements are the human-made shit. And the only proper way to fight radicalism is through improving the quality of life and access to education. What the Chinese government is doing right now, is planting seeds of even greater evil. Anyone who says or thinks otherwise is an ignorant fool who doesn't care about the future our children would live in.
khawkins 7y ago
Free trade works. It turns out China is just "more efficient" at manufacturing than the rest of the world. As the Nobel prize winning economist Milton Friedman loved to argue, unilateral free trade helps both countries. (https://fee.org/articles/in-1970-milton-friedman-called-for-unilateral-free-trade-rather-than-retaliation-we-still-haven-t-learned-that-simple-lesson/ https://fee.org/articles/in-1970-milton-friedman-called-for-...) I'm being sarcastic, but this has been the position of libertarians and both the center left and right for a long time. Of course, they didn't factor in the fact that trying to compete with literal slave labor means working class Americans see their wages stagnate. Further, it guarantees that this slave labor is very profitable for the Chinese upper class which get to live like kings, even though their GDP/capita might not be efficient. For countries like North Korea, Cuba, and Iran, human rights abuses result in economic isolation and consternation. But for China, their human rights abuses pay for our cheap stuff so we'll look the other way.
- LessDmesg 7y ago
  Free trade is maximally effective. Maximal effectiveness usually entails moral compromises. In real life we usually take a more balanced approach towards people: you forgive your girlfriend for having a little too much in the bum, and she forgives you for not being Tyson Fury. But when it comes to big money, greed and faraway countries/abstract masses of citizens, being uncompromising and exploitative comes easier. Any sort of regulation of slave labor/human rights/ecology in China will inevitably reduce overall efficiency and make everything more expensive. That's the only way to make things fairer, but only until some other country makes a more efficient bid and offers up its citizens as low-wage slaves.
- lopmotr 7y ago
  The good caused by global free trade far outweighs this small issue. If you don't like globalization, find a strong reason, not a random exception to the norm of win-win.
  - claudeganon 7y ago
    If a million people in concentration camps, being used as forced labor for a wide swathe of multinationals, counts as a “random exception” to you, you may need a strong adjustment to your moral calculus.
aptidude187 7y ago
As an Apple fanboy, I feel deeply conflicted to find Apple on the list and also Tim's approval & visit to one of the factories exploiting forced labor. I feel like a hypocrite, who supports human rights abuses through forced labour. All the years I stubbornly rejected my friend's and colleague's criticism from the open source & linux community for being eccentric and making 'exaggerated' arguments, but now I am so deeply engrossed in the Apply ecosystem, that I fear a switch to some linux distribution would be unmanageable for me. Ironically I feel like a slave of Apple myself. What could I do tho? Switch to some other brand and then find out, that they operate with the same unethical behaviour!? I'm just deeply conflicted.
- nyolfen 7y ago
  advocate for policies that will return manufacturing to domestic factories
  - aptidude187 7y ago
    Fantastic actionable advice, I heard that they assembled the trash can mac pro in Austin, Texas. Unfortunately not any longer tho, if I am not mistaken. Thank you for your advice!
  - lopmotr 7y ago
    Out of the frying pan and into the fire? With it's wars causing the deaths of millions in the middle east and its excessive imprisonment of people for using near-harmless drugs, maybe the US is worse than China on human rights.
    - ab_testing 7y ago
      I am sorry you were downvoted. What you need to understand is that unlike China, the US spreads freedom. In the last two decades we have brought freedom to Afghanistan and Iraq.
  - asdff 7y ago
    The demise of american manufacturing happened in lock step with environmental regulations. Turns out the only way to have a profitable manufacturing operation is to hire cheap and dump your waste into the water supply, as was done in every single industrialized american city. Maybe we should figure out how we focus less on making the most profit every quarter and more on how to establish sustainable industries that aren't going to look very profitable at all, and know that this lack of exponential profit isn't a bad thing. Advocating for a return of manufacturing is fruitless without this understanding coming to the business world first, and the only way to learn a lesson like this is to hold abusers of labor and the environment personally responsible. Calculate the environmental damage, calculate the damage to quality of life, and put the bill right on the executive who oversaw this behavior. Putting it on the company lets executives like this walk off scott-free to their next executive position while the company bankrupts and the working class involved with the company loose their livelihood; lessons aren't learned by going after companies. We have to hold executives directly accountable for their direct decision making.
lopmotr 7y ago
It's funny how this treatment is very bad because they're adults but it's pretty similar to how normal people treat children everywhere. Perhaps it's bad because adults are less malleable so they suffer more from being forced out of their natural ways while children are still learning how to behave so they tolerate going to school, learning languages, being politically indoctrinated, being forbidden from performing seances or voodoo revenge rituals, and being coerced by threats of social exclusion for failing to do the proper behaviors.
- fwipsy 7y ago
  It's not unreasonable for society to expect both children and adults to work some of the time. It is unreasonable for both children and adults to be separated from their loved ones and to be denied personal freedom to move and pursue their own interests, religion, etc to this degree. Children require more discipline than adults because they don't always have common sense like "don't set a fire in your bedroom."
tomohawk 7y ago
They are literally selling the body parts of their prisoners. https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/China-Tribunal-SHORT-FORM-CONCLUSION_Final.pdf https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/China-T... https://chinatribunal.com/final-judgment-report/ https://chinatribunal.com/final-judgment-report/ https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ChinaTribunal_JUDGMENT_1stMarch_2020.pdf https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ChinaTr... EDIT: not sure why this is being downvoted, as this tribunal is well respected and contains members with experience looking at other atrocities. https://chinatribunal.com/who-we-are/ https://chinatribunal.com/who-we-are/
- abc-xyz 7y ago
  HN has a large Chinese user-base who will be quick to downvote and flag threads and comments critical of China. That's also why this thread has been knocked off the frontpage despite having 155 points and being only 3 hours old.
  - dntbnmpls 7y ago
    Or HN has a large skeptical user-base who can spot obvious propaganda a mile away? > That's also why this thread has been knocked off the frontpage despite having 155 points and being only 3 hours old. This post is outright government propaganda. "The Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) is a non-partisan defence and strategic policy think tank based in Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, founded by the Australian government and partly funded by the Australian Department of Defence." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Strategic_Policy_Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Strategic_Policy_In... You seem to keen on pointing out chinese propaganda yet you seem blind to australian propaganda. Why?
  - yorwba 7y ago
    According to dang, HN does not have a large Chinese user-base: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21201123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21201123
    - 7y ago
yorwba 7y ago
Considering the conclusion that > The response to the abuses identified in this report should not involve a knee-jerk rejection of Uyghur or Chinese labour. The problem is the policies that require Uyghurs to work under duress in violation of well-established international labour laws. It is vital that, as these problems are addressed, Uyghur labourers are not placed in positions of greater harm or, for example, involuntarily transferred back to Xinjiang, where their safety cannot necessarily be guaranteed. I really don't like the parts of this article that don't clearly distinguish between companies employing Uyghurs, companies using forced labor and companies treating their employees like shit regardless of ethnicity. E.g. > a September 2019 report by New York-based China Labour Watch said contract workers at Foxconn’s Zhengzhou factory—which includes Uyghur workers—put in at least 100 overtime hours a month. is not a forced labor problem if their Han workers also work that much. If that factory decides to implement a policy of not hiring ethnic minorities, as some do (I've seen job ads explicitly excluding Uyghurs, Mongols, Hui and Yi) that doesn't solve the underlying problem that the factory is grinding its workers to the bone.
whiddershins 7y ago
I am inclined to believe this is accurate, however I don’t know anything about the organization producing the report. Can anyone fill me in in regards to their credibility?
- thisrod 7y ago
  As the name suggests, the "Australian Strategic Policy Institute" is a think tank for Australia's armed forces. It would save the outright lies for special occasions like 2003. On the other hand, it doesn't pretend to take a neutral point of view. The strategic subtext is to warn Australia's neighbours that "them as makes muslim slaves of Uigurs, want to make ... oh, hang on, we keep forgetting that you're muslim as well ... slaves of you." Which warning will be all the more effective because it's quite possibly true.
  - dirtyid 7y ago
    To add, Australia is caught between US and Chinese interest, US for security, Chinese for trade. ASPI is nominally aligned with US interests, receives funding from US State Department and is one of the largest proponents of China threat theory in Australian foreign policy. I wouldn't say their work is bad per say, but exceedingly one-sided in narrative. As long as that's understood. >Former NSW premier Bob Carr has accused it of pumping out a “one-sided, pro-American view of the world”. Veteran foreign editor Tony Walker has slammed its "dystopian worldview" which "leaves little room for viewing China as a potential partner". "It lacks integrity and brings shame to Australia," says retired former DFAT chief and ex-Qantas CEO John Menadue. “I see it as very much the architect of the China threat theory in Australia”, adds ex-ambassador to China turned Beijing-based business consultant Geoff Raby. >The rhetoric is extreme. And says much about how Australia’s consensus on China has dissolved. ... >ASPI's annual reports list alternate funding sources. Sponsors from its most recent can be divided into three buckets. >The first is filled with defence contractors such as Lockheed Martin, BAE, Northrop Grumman, Thales and Raytheon. The second, technology companies like Microsoft, Oracle Australia, Telstra, and Google. And lastly, there are the contributions from foreign governments, many being strategic competitors to China, including the Embassy of Japan and the Taipei Economic and Cultural Office (that is, Taiwan). https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/the-think-tank-behind-australia-s-changing-view-of-china-20200131-p53wgp https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/the-think-tank-be... I'm not going to label them as propaganda,they do some good work like collating data on Chinese firms abroad, but their analysis isn't neutral. They're certainly not as lolbad as ChinaTribunal and all the Falungong funded organ harvesting studies that's been spamming the internet since tradewar started.
_bxg1 7y ago
Remember the last time a major world power practiced ethnic cleansing and we joined a war over it? Instead of letting our corporations funnel money towards it?
gentleman11 7y ago
We need to stop using the propagandists terms when we describe these things. It’s not re-education, it’s psychological torture. It’s not forced labor, it’s slavery

255 points by hardmaru 7y ago

For a list of Uyghurs that are missing or detained, see https://www.shahit.biz/eng/ https://www.shahit.biz/eng/ Also, if you speak Mandarin or have other related language skills (Turkish, Russian, Uyghur, etc), there are volunteer positions!

telesilla 7y ago
Aside from not purchasing from the listed companies, is there other action that can be taken in support, from a distance?
- thoughtstheseus 7y ago
  Talk to people about this. Inform others.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  Call / email your political representatives, for one. They are the ones who can enact sanctions against the Chinese dictatorship.
- Melting_Harps 7y ago
  > Aside from not purchasing from the listed companies, is there other action that can be taken in support, from a distance? Support the Hong Kong Revolution, they're literately the front line when it comes to encroachment from the CCP. If/when they succeed then the notion of 'One China' policy falls in shambles; Taiwan, Macau and possibly Tibet are all in good strategic positions to rise up and contest it as well now that China is weakened economically.
  - Melting_Harps 7y ago
    Follow up with Documentary from Daily Apple (Jimmy Lai was recently arrested for his involvement with the protests) this should be a good preface for what is happening in HK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=ldRsqmr5sQs&feature=emb_title https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=ldRsqmr5sQs&... Update: I was wondering when the pro-ccp mainland brigade would show up.
- yellow_lead 7y ago
  Donate to Gene / shahit https://www.gofundme.com/xinjiang-victims-database-testimony-imports https://www.gofundme.com/xinjiang-victims-database-testimony...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

bespokedevelopr 7y ago

here is the list of companies they named as using Uyghur labor, >In all, ASPI’s research has identified 83 foreign and Chinese companies directly or indirectly benefiting from the use of Uyghur workers outside Xinjiang through potentially abusive labour transfer programs as recently as 2019: Abercrombie & Fitch, Acer, Adidas, Alstom, Amazon, Apple, ASUS, BAIC Motor, BMW, Bombardier, Bosch, BYD, Calvin Klein, Candy, Carter’s, Cerruti 1881, Changan Automobile, Cisco, CRRC, Dell, Electrolux, Fila, Founder Group, GAC Group (automobiles), Gap, Geely Auto, General Electric, General Motors, Google, H&M, Haier, Hart Schaffner Marx, Hisense, Hitachi, HP, HTC, Huawei, iFlyTek, Jack & Jones, Jaguar, Japan Display Inc., L.L.Bean, Lacoste, Land Rover, Lenovo, LG, Li-Ning, Mayor, Meizu, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Microsoft, Mitsubishi, Mitsumi, Nike, Nintendo, Nokia, The North Face, Oculus, Oppo, Panasonic, Polo Ralph Lauren, Puma, Roewe, SAIC Motor, Samsung, SGMW, Sharp, Siemens, Skechers, Sony, TDK, Tommy Hilfiger, Toshiba, Tsinghua Tongfang, Uniqlo, Victoria’s Secret, Vivo, Volkswagen, Xiaomi, Zara, Zegna, ZTE. Some brands are linked with multiple factories.

anticensor 7y ago
Very few multinational giants remain if you protest all these.
- sounds 7y ago
  Slavery is still wrong. Full stop.
  - omginternets 7y ago
    And there's no clear solution. Full stop.
    - marcosdumay 7y ago
      The solution is very clear. It just has to come from the government, not individual consumers.
      - 7y ago

lucian1900 7y ago

That’s the western media narrative. Consider what the other side is saying too https://youtu.be/u4cYE6E27_g https://youtu.be/u4cYE6E27_g

justicezyx 7y ago
Second this! A lot of people criticizing, but was from the human rights perspective. While it's important to debunk the lies about terrorisms happened in Xinjiang, which was used by Chinese propaganda to disguise as the legitimate excuse and secured the support from the Chinese citizens, even people living in Xinjiang.
- drieddust 7y ago
  What China is doing is terrible but elephant in the room can't be ignored. Islamist around the world are responsible for causing a lot of human suffering. It is pattern which can't be ignored. Look at what happened recently in Delhi.
  - iLemming 7y ago
    It's so easy to label an entire nation as Islamists, Zionists, fascists, and other "-ists." Millions of people, human beings. Children, mothers, fathers, their elders. You'd think in the 21st century, we'd finally learned from our own mistakes of the past. Alas, nothing much changed, probably for over 3 million years, from the time when Lucy the Australopithecus has walked on this planet. We are still the same idiots, always striving for self-extinction and complete annihilation of our habitat. Uygurs are the descendants of ancient clans of merchants and craftsmen. They've peacefully thrived even under Chengiz Khan's reign. There are hundreds of thousands of them in Turkey, in Central Asia, in other countries. Somehow Kazakhstan doesn't seem to be eager to build "re-education camps" for them. You speak like radicalism is some virus that needs to be controlled, and those people en-mass need to be quarantined and "cured." All religions and any radical movements are the human-made shit. And the only proper way to fight radicalism is through improving the quality of life and access to education. What the Chinese government is doing right now, is planting seeds of even greater evil. Anyone who says or thinks otherwise is an ignorant fool who doesn't care about the future our children would live in.

khawkins 7y ago

Free trade works. It turns out China is just "more efficient" at manufacturing than the rest of the world. As the Nobel prize winning economist Milton Friedman loved to argue, unilateral free trade helps both countries. (https://fee.org/articles/in-1970-milton-friedman-called-for-unilateral-free-trade-rather-than-retaliation-we-still-haven-t-learned-that-simple-lesson/ https://fee.org/articles/in-1970-milton-friedman-called-for-...) I'm being sarcastic, but this has been the position of libertarians and both the center left and right for a long time. Of course, they didn't factor in the fact that trying to compete with literal slave labor means working class Americans see their wages stagnate. Further, it guarantees that this slave labor is very profitable for the Chinese upper class which get to live like kings, even though their GDP/capita might not be efficient. For countries like North Korea, Cuba, and Iran, human rights abuses result in economic isolation and consternation. But for China, their human rights abuses pay for our cheap stuff so we'll look the other way.

LessDmesg 7y ago
Free trade is maximally effective. Maximal effectiveness usually entails moral compromises. In real life we usually take a more balanced approach towards people: you forgive your girlfriend for having a little too much in the bum, and she forgives you for not being Tyson Fury. But when it comes to big money, greed and faraway countries/abstract masses of citizens, being uncompromising and exploitative comes easier. Any sort of regulation of slave labor/human rights/ecology in China will inevitably reduce overall efficiency and make everything more expensive. That's the only way to make things fairer, but only until some other country makes a more efficient bid and offers up its citizens as low-wage slaves.
lopmotr 7y ago
The good caused by global free trade far outweighs this small issue. If you don't like globalization, find a strong reason, not a random exception to the norm of win-win.
- claudeganon 7y ago
  If a million people in concentration camps, being used as forced labor for a wide swathe of multinationals, counts as a “random exception” to you, you may need a strong adjustment to your moral calculus.

aptidude187 7y ago

As an Apple fanboy, I feel deeply conflicted to find Apple on the list and also Tim's approval & visit to one of the factories exploiting forced labor. I feel like a hypocrite, who supports human rights abuses through forced labour. All the years I stubbornly rejected my friend's and colleague's criticism from the open source & linux community for being eccentric and making 'exaggerated' arguments, but now I am so deeply engrossed in the Apply ecosystem, that I fear a switch to some linux distribution would be unmanageable for me. Ironically I feel like a slave of Apple myself. What could I do tho? Switch to some other brand and then find out, that they operate with the same unethical behaviour!? I'm just deeply conflicted.

nyolfen 7y ago
advocate for policies that will return manufacturing to domestic factories
- aptidude187 7y ago
  Fantastic actionable advice, I heard that they assembled the trash can mac pro in Austin, Texas. Unfortunately not any longer tho, if I am not mistaken. Thank you for your advice!
- lopmotr 7y ago
  Out of the frying pan and into the fire? With it's wars causing the deaths of millions in the middle east and its excessive imprisonment of people for using near-harmless drugs, maybe the US is worse than China on human rights.
  - ab_testing 7y ago
    I am sorry you were downvoted. What you need to understand is that unlike China, the US spreads freedom. In the last two decades we have brought freedom to Afghanistan and Iraq.
- asdff 7y ago
  The demise of american manufacturing happened in lock step with environmental regulations. Turns out the only way to have a profitable manufacturing operation is to hire cheap and dump your waste into the water supply, as was done in every single industrialized american city. Maybe we should figure out how we focus less on making the most profit every quarter and more on how to establish sustainable industries that aren't going to look very profitable at all, and know that this lack of exponential profit isn't a bad thing. Advocating for a return of manufacturing is fruitless without this understanding coming to the business world first, and the only way to learn a lesson like this is to hold abusers of labor and the environment personally responsible. Calculate the environmental damage, calculate the damage to quality of life, and put the bill right on the executive who oversaw this behavior. Putting it on the company lets executives like this walk off scott-free to their next executive position while the company bankrupts and the working class involved with the company loose their livelihood; lessons aren't learned by going after companies. We have to hold executives directly accountable for their direct decision making.

lopmotr 7y ago

It's funny how this treatment is very bad because they're adults but it's pretty similar to how normal people treat children everywhere. Perhaps it's bad because adults are less malleable so they suffer more from being forced out of their natural ways while children are still learning how to behave so they tolerate going to school, learning languages, being politically indoctrinated, being forbidden from performing seances or voodoo revenge rituals, and being coerced by threats of social exclusion for failing to do the proper behaviors.

fwipsy 7y ago
It's not unreasonable for society to expect both children and adults to work some of the time. It is unreasonable for both children and adults to be separated from their loved ones and to be denied personal freedom to move and pursue their own interests, religion, etc to this degree. Children require more discipline than adults because they don't always have common sense like "don't set a fire in your bedroom."

tomohawk 7y ago

They are literally selling the body parts of their prisoners. https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/China-Tribunal-SHORT-FORM-CONCLUSION_Final.pdf https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/China-T... https://chinatribunal.com/final-judgment-report/ https://chinatribunal.com/final-judgment-report/ https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ChinaTribunal_JUDGMENT_1stMarch_2020.pdf https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ChinaTr... EDIT: not sure why this is being downvoted, as this tribunal is well respected and contains members with experience looking at other atrocities. https://chinatribunal.com/who-we-are/ https://chinatribunal.com/who-we-are/

abc-xyz 7y ago
HN has a large Chinese user-base who will be quick to downvote and flag threads and comments critical of China. That's also why this thread has been knocked off the frontpage despite having 155 points and being only 3 hours old.
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  Or HN has a large skeptical user-base who can spot obvious propaganda a mile away? > That's also why this thread has been knocked off the frontpage despite having 155 points and being only 3 hours old. This post is outright government propaganda. "The Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) is a non-partisan defence and strategic policy think tank based in Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, founded by the Australian government and partly funded by the Australian Department of Defence." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Strategic_Policy_Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Strategic_Policy_In... You seem to keen on pointing out chinese propaganda yet you seem blind to australian propaganda. Why?
- yorwba 7y ago
  According to dang, HN does not have a large Chinese user-base: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21201123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21201123
  - 7y ago

yorwba 7y ago

Considering the conclusion that > The response to the abuses identified in this report should not involve a knee-jerk rejection of Uyghur or Chinese labour. The problem is the policies that require Uyghurs to work under duress in violation of well-established international labour laws. It is vital that, as these problems are addressed, Uyghur labourers are not placed in positions of greater harm or, for example, involuntarily transferred back to Xinjiang, where their safety cannot necessarily be guaranteed. I really don't like the parts of this article that don't clearly distinguish between companies employing Uyghurs, companies using forced labor and companies treating their employees like shit regardless of ethnicity. E.g. > a September 2019 report by New York-based China Labour Watch said contract workers at Foxconn’s Zhengzhou factory—which includes Uyghur workers—put in at least 100 overtime hours a month. is not a forced labor problem if their Han workers also work that much. If that factory decides to implement a policy of not hiring ethnic minorities, as some do (I've seen job ads explicitly excluding Uyghurs, Mongols, Hui and Yi) that doesn't solve the underlying problem that the factory is grinding its workers to the bone.

whiddershins 7y ago

I am inclined to believe this is accurate, however I don’t know anything about the organization producing the report. Can anyone fill me in in regards to their credibility?

thisrod 7y ago
As the name suggests, the "Australian Strategic Policy Institute" is a think tank for Australia's armed forces. It would save the outright lies for special occasions like 2003. On the other hand, it doesn't pretend to take a neutral point of view. The strategic subtext is to warn Australia's neighbours that "them as makes muslim slaves of Uigurs, want to make ... oh, hang on, we keep forgetting that you're muslim as well ... slaves of you." Which warning will be all the more effective because it's quite possibly true.
- dirtyid 7y ago
  To add, Australia is caught between US and Chinese interest, US for security, Chinese for trade. ASPI is nominally aligned with US interests, receives funding from US State Department and is one of the largest proponents of China threat theory in Australian foreign policy. I wouldn't say their work is bad per say, but exceedingly one-sided in narrative. As long as that's understood. >Former NSW premier Bob Carr has accused it of pumping out a “one-sided, pro-American view of the world”. Veteran foreign editor Tony Walker has slammed its "dystopian worldview" which "leaves little room for viewing China as a potential partner". "It lacks integrity and brings shame to Australia," says retired former DFAT chief and ex-Qantas CEO John Menadue. “I see it as very much the architect of the China threat theory in Australia”, adds ex-ambassador to China turned Beijing-based business consultant Geoff Raby. >The rhetoric is extreme. And says much about how Australia’s consensus on China has dissolved. ... >ASPI's annual reports list alternate funding sources. Sponsors from its most recent can be divided into three buckets. >The first is filled with defence contractors such as Lockheed Martin, BAE, Northrop Grumman, Thales and Raytheon. The second, technology companies like Microsoft, Oracle Australia, Telstra, and Google. And lastly, there are the contributions from foreign governments, many being strategic competitors to China, including the Embassy of Japan and the Taipei Economic and Cultural Office (that is, Taiwan). https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/the-think-tank-behind-australia-s-changing-view-of-china-20200131-p53wgp https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/the-think-tank-be... I'm not going to label them as propaganda,they do some good work like collating data on Chinese firms abroad, but their analysis isn't neutral. They're certainly not as lolbad as ChinaTribunal and all the Falungong funded organ harvesting studies that's been spamming the internet since tradewar started.

_bxg1 7y ago

Remember the last time a major world power practiced ethnic cleansing and we joined a war over it? Instead of letting our corporations funnel money towards it?

gentleman11 7y ago

We need to stop using the propagandists terms when we describe these things. It’s not re-education, it’s psychological torture. It’s not forced labor, it’s slavery