22 ms·

Walmart Gets Into Health Care

208 points by awb 7y ago

ColanR 7y ago
Fantastic, if this isn't regulated out of existence.
- protomyth 7y ago
  They are following others at this point. A lot of places have "minute clinics". The pharmacy part has more legal problems in some states like ND.
Analemma_ 7y ago
This is great news. Every six months I go to the dentist for a checkup and teeth cleaning, and it's always the same: they look at my teeth for a few minutes with the mirror thing, scrape off some plaque with the pointy thing, polish my teeth with the spinning thing, then I do the flouride rinse and leave. It usually takes less than half an hour, and then they bill my insurance $275 for it. It's ridiculous, and there's no way this requires a graduate medical degree, it could be done by someone who took a three-week mail-in training course. Keep dentists' offices with DDS's around for major surgeries or unusual situations, but for routine checkups this is fine.
- schiang 7y ago
  That's why some dental offices hire dental hygienist to clean teeth while the DDS focus on more major procedures.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    I thought they all do that. I never had a dentist do my teeth cleaning. The dentist shows maybe for two minutes at the ned and takes a quick look.
    - schiang 7y ago
      It probably depends on the dentist. I've never even see a dental hygienist at my dentist's office. It's always the dentist that does everything.
      - ghaff 7y ago
        That's not the norm in the US. Maybe some old-timey solo practices but having dental hygienists do cleaning is all I've ever seen.
      - astura 7y ago
        That's extremely unusual, I've been a patient at probably 20 different dental practices and I've never had a dentist do the cleaning, only the dental hygienist.
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  Took my step daughter to the dentist this morning. An x-ray and impressions. Whole process took 14 minutes. And that includes having her pose for front face and side face photos. Not a dentist in sight, just an assistant. $600.
  - rayhendricks 7y ago
    They billed my insurance $750 for a cleaning, I had to pay $0. Healthcare really is Monopoly money.
    - crankylinuxuser 7y ago
      And the fraud there is that they claim it's the dentist whom does it. Why don't insurance companies crack down on fraud like that?
      - ghaff 7y ago
        I'm pretty sure that my insurance company has a standard rate that they will pay out for procedures. And I'm also pretty sure they wouldn't pay for a $750 cleaning.
      - FireBeyond 7y ago
        There needs to be a report, a lot of times. I used to work for a company that did claims benefits management. For all their (many) faults, insurance companies are often very interested in hearing about provider fraud. Oftentimes, there may be no direct action from _your_ report, but it might help establish a pattern, versus "oops, we mis-coded the procedure/who provided it".
    - ghaff 7y ago
      That sounds bizarre. Lots of people with medical insurance don't have dental insurance. I do and it covers cleanings but, as I recall, a cleaning is around $100 or so. (I get 3 cleanings a year and at different times the insurance I've had sometimes covered the third and sometimes didn't.) Crowns are around $1200 which I end up covering half of. In my experience, dental is actually relatively free market. Some providers (like mine) charge a bit more than insurance covers for things like fillings and I just pay it. But, even if you don't have insurance, rates are pretty reasonable for 30-60 minutes of a professional's time. My accountant certainly isn't any cheaper.
- anotherman554 7y ago
  In theory the dentist is supposed to glance over your mouth and screen for gum cancer or other issues. So a three-week mail course is certainly an exaggeration.
- throwaway3157 7y ago
  > it could be done by someone who took a three-week mail-in training course. Sounds like you have healthy teeth, but your comment is fairly ignorant of the fact that nearly everything you described isn't done by someone with a graduate medical degree, but generally is done by a dental assistant/hygienist . I wouldn't want someone to touch my teeth if they haven't practiced using the instruments in a classroom. This isn't a programming course.. > Dental assistants receive their formal education through academic programs at community colleges, vocational schools, technical institutes, universities or dental schools. Graduates of these programs usually receive certificates. Although the majority of academic dental assisting programs take nine to eleven months to complete, some schools offer accelerated training, part-time education programs or training via distance education. [0] [0] https://www.ada.org/en/education-careers/careers-in-dentistry/dental-team-careers/dental-assistant/education-training-requirements-dental-assistant https://www.ada.org/en/education-careers/careers-in-dentistr...
- refurb 7y ago
  Isn't it normally hygienists who do the routine work? With a DDS overseeing the process and doing the final exam? From what I've gathered, dentistry is still very lucrative. I knew a DDS who work 3 days a week and clears over $500K per year. It will be interesting to see how long that lasts.
- lowercased 7y ago
  needed a root canal a few years back. went to the first local place. got an estimate of $2500. way too much for my blood. called around, got someone else to do it for around $1300. Found out there's actually a guy closer who does most for around $900+. But... I went with the $1300 lady. She was fine, and have been going back since. It's a bit of a drive, but the initial price was enough of a 'trust' factor for me, and I trust now that if/when I need something done, I need it done, and that her price will be reasonable. It might be a bad assumption on my part, but I did have that initial savings years ago. She'd be having to jack up everything else quite a lot to be trying to gouge me, and I don't think it's happening. She's just in a less expensive part of town, generally sees less affluent patients, and everything is priced for that market. That it's a 20 mile drive to get there doesn't bother me.
  - protomyth 7y ago
    I can tell you from experience that an improperly done root canal can come back to bite you years later. Had one done by IHS[1] when I was in 6th grade. During my 1st year in college I woke up with mouth pain that was really, really bad. Had to get a parent to come get me and drive me to a dentist. He took x-rays and found out I had an infection growing since the initial root canal[2]. He prescribed antibiotics and a massive pain reliever (Percodan[3]). It took four weeks for the infection to go down enough for surgery. The doctor said it might come back because they might not get it all. It took two more operations (5 and 10 years later) to fix it all. 1) given what's happened to so many other people, I feel I got off cheap. 2) no, the IHS dentists did not see this growing and it was probably slowed by the multiple antibiotic prescriptions for step throat in high school. 3) Took it for two weeks, I'm still amazed I was functional enough to take tests and program. That stuff is a whole lot of don't care in one bottle.
    - lowercased 7y ago
      understood. the procedure referenced above was from... gosh now, 9 years ago. no issues with it (I've had other teeth issues but not her fault). Wife had a bad root canal done by a 'fancier' place which went bad a few years later. Sort of feels like a total gamble, really.
- pkaye 7y ago
  The dentist office has to roll up all their costs under the services they provide. So the $275 contributes to all the staff wages and benefits, office space, etc. That is why for example the HVAC repairman charges $300 for changing a $5 capacitor in your AC. Places like Costco/Walmart can reduce the costs by keeping a steady stream of customers and sharing building space, etc.
  - stri8ed 7y ago
    > That is why for example the HVAC repairman charges $300 for changing a $5 capacitor in your AC In my experience, the primary reason they do this, is because they can. Not because their existence requires it to survive.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- astura 7y ago
  >there's no way this requires a graduate medical degree The actual cleaning itself is done by a dental hygienist, which requires an associate's degree. The dentist only shows up and the end to see if he/she sees any problems.
neonate 7y ago
https://archive.md/5r5Q2 https://archive.md/5r5Q2
WheelsAtLarge 7y ago
This is great. Walmart has a reputation to protect so at the very least I can trust what they say. I've had a hard time getting a dentist I can trust. The business reminds me of car mechanics that are always looking to sell you additional services. And as a layperson, it's hard to know when you are being sold services you don't need. They love people with insurance since they can get them to buy without much pushing.
- ebg13 7y ago
  > This is great. Walmart has a reputation to protect so at the very least I can trust what they say. I've had a hard time getting a dentist I can trust. Do you think that dentists don't also have a reputation to protect? What makes you take polar opposite views of the two?
  - WheelsAtLarge 7y ago
    It's not the same. I think it's a matter of scale. Walmart, because of its size, will often have more checks and balances. They will not take a chance to mar their reputation. Walmart wants to keep people's trust. It's worth billions to the company. It's not 100% but I feel more comfortable if I'm not constantly being pushed additional services to buy. Most dentists I've dealt with run their practice as a small business. Usually, it's a few dentists. They need to constantly sell. I understand that they need to stay in business but it's so constant that you never know where you stand. I'm not saying that all dentists are like that it's just hard to find one that you can trust. Just like car mechanics.
    - beambot 7y ago
      Size & reputation seem just as relevant to all the existing medical providers, but that seems to have little impact...
    - fzeroracer 7y ago
      How does your scale argument apply to companies like Amazon which gleefully sell counterfeits and trash on their site, or allow scammers to run rampant? What makes you think that Walmart is different here?
the_cat_kittles 7y ago
a large, aggressive for-profit org with a virtually unlimited warchest providing health care? sounds perfect. absolutely nothing bad could come of it.
- jariel 7y ago
  ? The people providing healthcare today, are as you described, except they have huge, fat, ridiculous margins. They commit what would be point blank fraud in any other country, all day, every day. Walmart is a massive machine that operates by design on thin margins. They force out surpluses all the way down the value chain and in their own operations and instead of selling at max margin, they sell at low margin, because they know they win in the long run. Walmart might be exactly what you'd invent if you wanted to provide healthcare at the best price to the most people. There's the possibility they could be more efficient than any system anywhere as most public systems are full of fat as well ... certainly more than the 5% or so margin Walmart might take in.
deleted 7y ago
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- deleted 7y ago
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WhompingWindows 7y ago
I'm just waiting for these massive corporations to get into the automation of Pharmacy work. I know a number of highly paid (110k+) pharmacists who largely: A) count pills B) put pills into orders C) do retail D) answer questions/customer service Meanwhile, the industry is being flooded with new graduates from dozens of schools...If this isn't a case for automation of A-C, I don't know what IS a case for automation in healthcare.
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  Why would you want to unemploy a bunch of people doing a cushy, fun, do nothing job? What's wrong with you?
  - gruez 7y ago
    retail/pill counting is fun?
    - jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
      As someone whos worked both blue collar and white collar jobs, pharmacist is one of the better gigs out there.
      - inpharmaticist 7y ago
        It's an okay gig on average, currently. Chains keep buying the smaller guys out, reducing hours and support staff, increasing demands of metrics, and offering lower and lower pay to new grads. It doesn't help that new schools keep opening and applicant numbers do not increase in quality or quantity. The BLS anticipates 0% job growth in the next 10 years.
    - wil421 7y ago
      Probably not but $110k a year can buy a whole lot of fun. Pill counting is not soul crushing, work to live don’t live to work.
  - 7y ago
hiredman 7y ago
Walmart using their market power in one industry to charge below market rates in another, driving out competition. This is going to destroy health care options in areas that are already under served.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  When called to Congress to testify about it 15 years from now, Walmart execs will exclaim "It's about competition: if we hadn't done it, Amazon would have!"
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Even if it's middle of the road service performed by inexperienced people starting out their careers and looked down on by professionals with more experience (i.e. basically how Walmart tire center is viewed in the automotive world) it still provides an alternative keeping the prices of higher class options in check.
- BenjiWiebe 7y ago
  As a Walmart tire tech, I'd like to recommend everyone that not every tire shop is equal, even within Walmart. Our next door Walmart acc generates a lot of horror stories that we get to fix. Also some local non-Walmart tire shops do even worse. Like forgetting to tighten lug nuts. Heard that one several times about a local (and quite respected!) tire shop.
JoeAltmaier 7y ago
Hm. Wife had eye check at big box store. The guy said "Oh, you have Macular Degeneration. Nothing to do about it sorry. Just go home and go blind". She came home in tears of course. So I said "Go to a reputable ophthalmologist and get a real opinion". So she did. Of course nothing is wrong with her eyes (despite the power-of-suggestion effects she experienced, but miraculously cleared up once she got a reliable exam). The Dr did say "I can see how they made the mistake; you have some small adhesions to your retina, but they'll clear up by themselves" So no, I'm not going to a big box store to get my medical care. Never mind the price. I'll get a professional, or go without. Can't be worse than our experience at the discount-home-goods place.
- fma 7y ago
  For what it's worth...those eye glasses places are run by optometrists (usually) and not an ophthalmologist. An ophthalmologist has more medical training. They are all independent of the store and just pay rent. But they are all professionals... Edit: Also if you have a real medical issue w/ your eye, definitely see an ophthalmologist. Optometrists are for glasses and minor eye issues...they aren't going to be doing surgery on you.
- learc83 7y ago
  When you get your eyes checked for glasses you go to an optometrist. Doesn't matter if it's big box store or a local guy--they have the same credentials. An ophthalmologist is an MD who specializes in eyes, and that's who you want to go to when you have a more serious problem. 2 completely different things, and not really anything to do with where the optometrist was located.
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    So what were they doing, diagnosing and then saying there was no point in getting a second opinion?
    - ghaff 7y ago
      It sounds like a very incompetent optometrist (and if they weren't one, someone basically impersonating one). They're eye specialists after all who go to a 4-year post-undergraduate program, just not M.D. doctors. At a minimum, they should presumably have told your wife to book an appointment with an ophthalmologist immediately.
artemisyna 7y ago
Very curious to see how this plays out. There's a bunch of underinsured (or outright not insured) folk in the very locations where Walmart is opening these, so it has the potential to kill a couple of different birds with one stone. From a public benefits side, it gives a path of medical care for those that otherwise wouldn't have it (beyond say, an emergency room visit). It also lower prices by competing against insurance bloat. In doing so, Walmart (may) be able to create a sustainable business by tapping a market (folk that aren't currently going for medical coverage anyway) that would otherwise be untapped.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  This could also control costs if government managed systems (Medicare, Medicaid) partner with Walmart to provide payment. Easier to negotiate with Walmart as a single entity versus a network of vision and dental providers across the nation.
  - beepboopbeep 7y ago
    Or we could just...provide it through the government like any other sane country.
    - bhupy 7y ago
      That’s certainly an option, but the meta-question is: which mechanism can produce health/pharma goods and services at lower costs and higher quality, markets or government allocation? If the answer is the latter, then why aren’t we replicating that mechanism across other essential goods like food and clothing?
      - gruez 7y ago
        >then why aren’t we replicating that mechanism across other essential goods like food and clothing? maybe because the competition doesn't work as well in healthcare sector? or that there isn't a whole scheme of inflated prices that insurance companies negotiate down to, but uninsured people are forced to pay?
proc0 7y ago
This is hilarious. I'm no universal healthcare idealist, but there is something to be said about health services having the wrong incentives in doing it for-profit. What incentives do for-profit pharmaceuticals have to keep people healthy? Potentially none. What incentives do they have to keep people sick? Probably billions of dollars if not more. The problem is you can't risk your health. When buying a product you can risk a "clever" company that sells you a subpar product, but you can't really risk a "clever" pharmaceutical that sells you a subpar medicine or service.
- sykick 7y ago
  I'm curious why the reasons you elucidated aren't enough to make you a universal healthcare idealist. Do you mean by this that you don't want universal care or that you don't care about the issue or something else? If you mean by this that you don't want universal healthcare under what circumstances would you want this? I ask not to engage in a debate or to try to change your mind. I won't respond to anything you write. I'm just curious about people who don't advocate for universal healthcare what their reasoning is. For the record, I think everyone should have access to the healthcare system and that no one should profit by denying a person care. I also don't think that being rich ought to grant you better access or quicker access to the system since resources are limited and the type of care or quickness or care should not be influenced by money.
  - proc0 7y ago
    I think it's a logistics problem. Perhaps every state could offer a free healthcare option. Private healthcare is available in single-payer countries but you still pay taxes, and in the U.S. health insurance companies have changed the system so that they are always in control and there isn't any real competition for any other insurance. For prices to go down there should be real competition for these services, but I don't see that anywhere. Either government fully controls and taxes, or private companies control the government and in turn the market.
- awb 7y ago
  > What incentives do for-profit pharmaceuticals have to keep people healthy? In a competitive market when people aren't happy with a product or service they take their business elsewhere. Over time companies with bad intentions get weeded out or never get off the ground.
justlexi93 7y ago
Wow, let us see where this will go.
cityzen 7y ago
a megacorp that stiffs employees on health care gets into health care. Cool story, Walmart, hope the Walton children enjoy their slice of that $3.5 trillion pie.
Avalon42 7y ago
I'm a graduate student in a small city. I would gladly use this dental cleaning service. I haven't been to the dentist in like 2 years because I really can't afford it. I actually get my prescriptions via Walmart already without insurance because it cheaper than using the insurance given to the grad students.
briandilley 7y ago
I can't tell if this is a good thing, or a bad thing.
- dayvid 7y ago
  Ideally it would be a solid hedge against the government going nowhere with improving the cost of healthcare. If it makes people get checked up more often, it could reduce overall healthcare costs because more issues get caught early. Combine it with an app that offers specific recommendations and reminders based on your health profile, and you'd have an interesting startup. (this probably won't happen due to HIPAA/privacy issues and not being in Walmart's general wheelhouse).
ijidak 7y ago
I am EXCITED to see how this plays out. It is astounding to me how locked down certain medical tests are. Like, if I want an EKG, why can't I just walk in to a place and get it done at a reasonable price? And without a doctor's approval? And I pay for insurance. But I just want to be able to monitor my vitals myself, whenever I feel like it. It seems like it would drive higher utilization of equipment and lower prices if these types of diagnostic tests were readily available at a place like a CVS or a Walmart. I would gladly even pay $50 per month for unlimited access to a place to just come in, get my blood sugar, kidney function, heart function, liver function, etc. tested once per month! As important as health is, and as much as Americans spend on it, it is shocking to me how gated everything is. It hurts my health and my pocketbook simultaneously! I've always wondered why a company like Walmart doesn't just provide $20 EKGs, and $25 tooth cleanings. Like, why is so easy to get a hamburger at any time of day, but like pulling teeth to just run somewhere and get a quick, inexpensive EKG to make sure everything is ok with your heart..? What am I missing? Are there legitimate safety reasons these mundane diagnostics are so locked down? Or are these services available and I just don't know about it? Again, I pay for health insurance, but I still feel like if I want a quick EKG, it will take me 3 weeks to see a doctor, and by then I might be dead. I don't want to see a doctor, I just want an EKG done for my own peace of mind. But health Care is not my area of expertise. So perhaps there are very legitimate reasons these diagnostics and labs are so difficult to self-request at reasonable prices.
- dickeytk 7y ago
  Well if it’s just an EKG you’re after: https://www.alivecor.com/ https://www.alivecor.com/ But I agree with your overall point regardless
- WillDaSilva 7y ago
  >Are there legitimate safety reasons these mundane diagnostics are so locked down? Healthcare is not my area of expertise either, but my understanding is that the short answer to your question is yes. For a longer introduction to the issues surrounding letting anyone get whatever diagnostics they want to pay for, this Medlife Crisis video that came out today seems appropriate: https://youtu.be/yNzQ_sLGIuA https://youtu.be/yNzQ_sLGIuA
gdsdfe 7y ago
This is why I think Bernie Sanders won't be the next president, headlines like this.
usaphp 7y ago
> talk about their anxieties with a counselor for $1 a minute I would get more anxiety just by looking at my watch if I am being charged per minute
- obmelvin 7y ago
  I understand your point, but comparatively $30 for 30 minutes isn't that expensive considering you (seemingly) don't have to worry about insurance.
harry8 7y ago
This is in Bloomberg. Who themselves have announced they are Mike's propaganda. Skimmed the article and couldn't find any reason it's a story /today/. Why is it a story today? Speculate. The US healthcare system is third world standard. Great if you're rich, horrendous if you're not. Just like say, India, for example. US is the richest country on earth. Any story about US healthcare not mentioning how much worse it is than every other industrialized nation runs the risk of impersonating propaganda. So if this isn't propaganda they've disguised it effectively. Remember when we used to make jokes about Pravda. Radio Moscow. Here we are in the free world. We can do better about sensible policy discussion than this. Really.
koolba 7y ago
If I can walk in without an appointment, see a doctor after a reasonable wait, and then get a prescription for antibiotics that can be filled on the spot, then I’m 100% on board with this.
- vikramkr 7y ago
  hopefully the prescription for antibiotics is warranted and walmart isn't handing out prescriptions to everyone with the cold or flu
  - winrid 7y ago
    This! When I was in China the experience was as described by your parent comment except the doctor insisted she give me a prescription for herbal medicine since it's better for me... (Had the flu, REALLY wanted nyquil, but it's illegal there it seems).
    - winrid 7y ago
      *Since she said it was better for me. Obviously that is debatable...
- Corrado 7y ago
  I live in the Ohio Valley area and the biggest problem we run into is seasonal allergies. That doesn't sound so bad as its just a stuffy nose at first, however after a couple of weeks it turns into a nasty sinus infection. Getting an antibiotic through a traditional Dr. can take many days (or even weeks). Going to the "after-care" is inconvenient and can take hours. If I could pop into WalMart when I feel this coming on, I would do it in a heartbeat! Especially if it meant that I didn't have to do all the insurance stuff. Even better if the whole visit costs the same as my insurance co-pay ($30)!
  - wccrawford 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure there's been a few times in the last few years that my wife has called up a doctor on the phone and gotten a prescription for her sinus infection, and then just went to Target and filled it. She didn't have to physically see a doctor. I'm also pretty sure it was a service that her health care provided, so you should ask your health care provider if they have something similar.
jariel 7y ago
I have been thinking for years that the only economic entity that might be able to take this on is Wallmart. I believed that if there was a single thing Barack Obama could do, it would have been to convince Wallmart to heavily invest in healthcare, the point of building clinics. Walmart is quite a different beast than other companies. Walmart, by strategy, does not compete on margin, they compete on volume. Since high margins are a problem for volume, they actively try to suck out margins in a product all along the value chain. Walmart pushes suppliers to improve their own cost metrics and has enough power to do it. They basically use their leverage to force down prices, knowing they'll make it up in the long run on volume. This is a very, very different approach to business than basically anywhere else, and possibly has ever existed and it's one of the few magic things that makes Walmart what it is. The 'literati' classes love to hate on Walmart, but consider how powerful this machine is: it basically sucks profits and inefficiency out of the value chain like a vacuum, handing over the surpluses to consumers. They basically enable 100 million Americans to live at a standard of living not otherwise possible. Health Care is the most bloated sector in the entire world, and there's so much juicy fat to be cut, if there's any operational entity has the scale, operational ability, customer reach, efficiency to pull this off it's walmart. I hope they expand into basic medicine, family medicine, all of the basic kind of testing, and insurance. I can't say I'm otherwise a huge fan of Walmart, but if they end up raping and pillaging healthcare in the US, they could literally be creating the biggest benefit capitalism ever provided for Americans. I'm a huge, huge fan of this. I haven't stepped into a Walmart in years, but I'm thinking I need my teeth cleaned ...
Jonahgay 7y ago
Tell Bloomberg to stop doxing me
rustybolt 7y ago
Given the quality I've seen in American megastores (I've seen bicycles seem really dangerous to ride -- is there no institution that regulates vehicles?), my knee-jerk reaction is that this is a terrible idea. At the same time, I'm all for accessible and good healthcare, so let's see how this plays out.
- freddie_mercury 7y ago
  Wal-Mart sells something like 2 million bicycles a year. If they're actually selling "really dangerous" bicycles then it should be easy for you to point at some actual statistics about it. After all, in America there are regularly recalls for things like "we manufactured 600 bicycle forks that might crack and pose an fall hazard"[1] "we made 800 bicycles where the caliper might come into contact with a broken spoke"[2] "we manufactured 4,100 steer tubes that can become loose"[3] [1]: https://www.cpsc.gov/es/Recalls/2016/enve-recalls-bicycle-forks https://www.cpsc.gov/es/Recalls/2016/enve-recalls-bicycle-fo... [2]: https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/Trek-Recalls-Disc-Bicycles https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/Trek-Recalls-Disc-Bicycles [3]:https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2016/Box-Components-Recalls-BMX-Bicycle-Forks https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2016/Box-Components-Recalls-BMX... So where's the evidence of the tens of thousands of "really dangerous" bicycles being sold in America?
  - rustybolt 7y ago
    I didn't say that Walmart sells dangerous bicycles. I said that some supermarkets sell bicycles that seem dangerous to ride, so I'm wondering if the regulations are strict enough. More specifically, when I was in the USA I've seen bicycles at the K-mart, so I was referring to those. It seems I'm not the only one who think those bikes are terrible: https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/8xvfv2/has_anyone_purchased_a_100150_bicycle_from_kmart/ https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/8xvfv2/has_anyon... Still, you make a good point in showing that there actually are at least some regulations. Whether they are strict enough and focus on the right points is not entirely clear to me.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
LatteLazy 7y ago
I heard a podcast on this recently where they cynically concluded that Walmart is doing this primarily to have more control over the healthcare costs of its employees. Will a Walmart doctor recommend AN expensive MRI for a Walmart employee if his boss doesn't like that?
zer0faith 7y ago
A little competition in this space is LONG over due.
theshadowknows 7y ago
100% guarantee you that Walmart will make you sign a waiver of your PHI rights before you bust up in there and get a $25 blood test.
doggydogs94 7y ago
I am only surprised that Walmart took this long to get into the lucrative health care market.

208 points by awb 7y ago

ColanR 7y ago

Fantastic, if this isn't regulated out of existence.

protomyth 7y ago
They are following others at this point. A lot of places have "minute clinics". The pharmacy part has more legal problems in some states like ND.

Analemma_ 7y ago

This is great news. Every six months I go to the dentist for a checkup and teeth cleaning, and it's always the same: they look at my teeth for a few minutes with the mirror thing, scrape off some plaque with the pointy thing, polish my teeth with the spinning thing, then I do the flouride rinse and leave. It usually takes less than half an hour, and then they bill my insurance $275 for it. It's ridiculous, and there's no way this requires a graduate medical degree, it could be done by someone who took a three-week mail-in training course. Keep dentists' offices with DDS's around for major surgeries or unusual situations, but for routine checkups this is fine.

schiang 7y ago
That's why some dental offices hire dental hygienist to clean teeth while the DDS focus on more major procedures.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  I thought they all do that. I never had a dentist do my teeth cleaning. The dentist shows maybe for two minutes at the ned and takes a quick look.
  - schiang 7y ago
    It probably depends on the dentist. I've never even see a dental hygienist at my dentist's office. It's always the dentist that does everything.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      That's not the norm in the US. Maybe some old-timey solo practices but having dental hygienists do cleaning is all I've ever seen.
    - astura 7y ago
      That's extremely unusual, I've been a patient at probably 20 different dental practices and I've never had a dentist do the cleaning, only the dental hygienist.
FireBeyond 7y ago
Took my step daughter to the dentist this morning. An x-ray and impressions. Whole process took 14 minutes. And that includes having her pose for front face and side face photos. Not a dentist in sight, just an assistant. $600.
- rayhendricks 7y ago
  They billed my insurance $750 for a cleaning, I had to pay $0. Healthcare really is Monopoly money.
  - crankylinuxuser 7y ago
    And the fraud there is that they claim it's the dentist whom does it. Why don't insurance companies crack down on fraud like that?
    - ghaff 7y ago
      I'm pretty sure that my insurance company has a standard rate that they will pay out for procedures. And I'm also pretty sure they wouldn't pay for a $750 cleaning.
    - FireBeyond 7y ago
      There needs to be a report, a lot of times. I used to work for a company that did claims benefits management. For all their (many) faults, insurance companies are often very interested in hearing about provider fraud. Oftentimes, there may be no direct action from _your_ report, but it might help establish a pattern, versus "oops, we mis-coded the procedure/who provided it".
  - ghaff 7y ago
    That sounds bizarre. Lots of people with medical insurance don't have dental insurance. I do and it covers cleanings but, as I recall, a cleaning is around $100 or so. (I get 3 cleanings a year and at different times the insurance I've had sometimes covered the third and sometimes didn't.) Crowns are around $1200 which I end up covering half of. In my experience, dental is actually relatively free market. Some providers (like mine) charge a bit more than insurance covers for things like fillings and I just pay it. But, even if you don't have insurance, rates are pretty reasonable for 30-60 minutes of a professional's time. My accountant certainly isn't any cheaper.
anotherman554 7y ago
In theory the dentist is supposed to glance over your mouth and screen for gum cancer or other issues. So a three-week mail course is certainly an exaggeration.
throwaway3157 7y ago
> it could be done by someone who took a three-week mail-in training course. Sounds like you have healthy teeth, but your comment is fairly ignorant of the fact that nearly everything you described isn't done by someone with a graduate medical degree, but generally is done by a dental assistant/hygienist . I wouldn't want someone to touch my teeth if they haven't practiced using the instruments in a classroom. This isn't a programming course.. > Dental assistants receive their formal education through academic programs at community colleges, vocational schools, technical institutes, universities or dental schools. Graduates of these programs usually receive certificates. Although the majority of academic dental assisting programs take nine to eleven months to complete, some schools offer accelerated training, part-time education programs or training via distance education. [0] [0] https://www.ada.org/en/education-careers/careers-in-dentistry/dental-team-careers/dental-assistant/education-training-requirements-dental-assistant https://www.ada.org/en/education-careers/careers-in-dentistr...
refurb 7y ago
Isn't it normally hygienists who do the routine work? With a DDS overseeing the process and doing the final exam? From what I've gathered, dentistry is still very lucrative. I knew a DDS who work 3 days a week and clears over $500K per year. It will be interesting to see how long that lasts.
lowercased 7y ago
needed a root canal a few years back. went to the first local place. got an estimate of $2500. way too much for my blood. called around, got someone else to do it for around $1300. Found out there's actually a guy closer who does most for around $900+. But... I went with the $1300 lady. She was fine, and have been going back since. It's a bit of a drive, but the initial price was enough of a 'trust' factor for me, and I trust now that if/when I need something done, I need it done, and that her price will be reasonable. It might be a bad assumption on my part, but I did have that initial savings years ago. She'd be having to jack up everything else quite a lot to be trying to gouge me, and I don't think it's happening. She's just in a less expensive part of town, generally sees less affluent patients, and everything is priced for that market. That it's a 20 mile drive to get there doesn't bother me.
- protomyth 7y ago
  I can tell you from experience that an improperly done root canal can come back to bite you years later. Had one done by IHS[1] when I was in 6th grade. During my 1st year in college I woke up with mouth pain that was really, really bad. Had to get a parent to come get me and drive me to a dentist. He took x-rays and found out I had an infection growing since the initial root canal[2]. He prescribed antibiotics and a massive pain reliever (Percodan[3]). It took four weeks for the infection to go down enough for surgery. The doctor said it might come back because they might not get it all. It took two more operations (5 and 10 years later) to fix it all. 1) given what's happened to so many other people, I feel I got off cheap. 2) no, the IHS dentists did not see this growing and it was probably slowed by the multiple antibiotic prescriptions for step throat in high school. 3) Took it for two weeks, I'm still amazed I was functional enough to take tests and program. That stuff is a whole lot of don't care in one bottle.
  - lowercased 7y ago
    understood. the procedure referenced above was from... gosh now, 9 years ago. no issues with it (I've had other teeth issues but not her fault). Wife had a bad root canal done by a 'fancier' place which went bad a few years later. Sort of feels like a total gamble, really.
pkaye 7y ago
The dentist office has to roll up all their costs under the services they provide. So the $275 contributes to all the staff wages and benefits, office space, etc. That is why for example the HVAC repairman charges $300 for changing a $5 capacitor in your AC. Places like Costco/Walmart can reduce the costs by keeping a steady stream of customers and sharing building space, etc.
- stri8ed 7y ago
  > That is why for example the HVAC repairman charges $300 for changing a $5 capacitor in your AC In my experience, the primary reason they do this, is because they can. Not because their existence requires it to survive.
  - deleted 7y ago
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astura 7y ago
>there's no way this requires a graduate medical degree The actual cleaning itself is done by a dental hygienist, which requires an associate's degree. The dentist only shows up and the end to see if he/she sees any problems.

neonate 7y ago

https://archive.md/5r5Q2 https://archive.md/5r5Q2

WheelsAtLarge 7y ago

This is great. Walmart has a reputation to protect so at the very least I can trust what they say. I've had a hard time getting a dentist I can trust. The business reminds me of car mechanics that are always looking to sell you additional services. And as a layperson, it's hard to know when you are being sold services you don't need. They love people with insurance since they can get them to buy without much pushing.

ebg13 7y ago
> This is great. Walmart has a reputation to protect so at the very least I can trust what they say. I've had a hard time getting a dentist I can trust. Do you think that dentists don't also have a reputation to protect? What makes you take polar opposite views of the two?
- WheelsAtLarge 7y ago
  It's not the same. I think it's a matter of scale. Walmart, because of its size, will often have more checks and balances. They will not take a chance to mar their reputation. Walmart wants to keep people's trust. It's worth billions to the company. It's not 100% but I feel more comfortable if I'm not constantly being pushed additional services to buy. Most dentists I've dealt with run their practice as a small business. Usually, it's a few dentists. They need to constantly sell. I understand that they need to stay in business but it's so constant that you never know where you stand. I'm not saying that all dentists are like that it's just hard to find one that you can trust. Just like car mechanics.
  - beambot 7y ago
    Size & reputation seem just as relevant to all the existing medical providers, but that seems to have little impact...
  - fzeroracer 7y ago
    How does your scale argument apply to companies like Amazon which gleefully sell counterfeits and trash on their site, or allow scammers to run rampant? What makes you think that Walmart is different here?

the_cat_kittles 7y ago

a large, aggressive for-profit org with a virtually unlimited warchest providing health care? sounds perfect. absolutely nothing bad could come of it.

jariel 7y ago
? The people providing healthcare today, are as you described, except they have huge, fat, ridiculous margins. They commit what would be point blank fraud in any other country, all day, every day. Walmart is a massive machine that operates by design on thin margins. They force out surpluses all the way down the value chain and in their own operations and instead of selling at max margin, they sell at low margin, because they know they win in the long run. Walmart might be exactly what you'd invent if you wanted to provide healthcare at the best price to the most people. There's the possibility they could be more efficient than any system anywhere as most public systems are full of fat as well ... certainly more than the 5% or so margin Walmart might take in.

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WhompingWindows 7y ago

I'm just waiting for these massive corporations to get into the automation of Pharmacy work. I know a number of highly paid (110k+) pharmacists who largely: A) count pills B) put pills into orders C) do retail D) answer questions/customer service Meanwhile, the industry is being flooded with new graduates from dozens of schools...If this isn't a case for automation of A-C, I don't know what IS a case for automation in healthcare.

jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
Why would you want to unemploy a bunch of people doing a cushy, fun, do nothing job? What's wrong with you?
- gruez 7y ago
  retail/pill counting is fun?
  - jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
    As someone whos worked both blue collar and white collar jobs, pharmacist is one of the better gigs out there.
    - inpharmaticist 7y ago
      It's an okay gig on average, currently. Chains keep buying the smaller guys out, reducing hours and support staff, increasing demands of metrics, and offering lower and lower pay to new grads. It doesn't help that new schools keep opening and applicant numbers do not increase in quality or quantity. The BLS anticipates 0% job growth in the next 10 years.
  - wil421 7y ago
    Probably not but $110k a year can buy a whole lot of fun. Pill counting is not soul crushing, work to live don’t live to work.
- 7y ago

hiredman 7y ago

Walmart using their market power in one industry to charge below market rates in another, driving out competition. This is going to destroy health care options in areas that are already under served.

jessaustin 7y ago
When called to Congress to testify about it 15 years from now, Walmart execs will exclaim "It's about competition: if we hadn't done it, Amazon would have!"

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

Even if it's middle of the road service performed by inexperienced people starting out their careers and looked down on by professionals with more experience (i.e. basically how Walmart tire center is viewed in the automotive world) it still provides an alternative keeping the prices of higher class options in check.

BenjiWiebe 7y ago
As a Walmart tire tech, I'd like to recommend everyone that not every tire shop is equal, even within Walmart. Our next door Walmart acc generates a lot of horror stories that we get to fix. Also some local non-Walmart tire shops do even worse. Like forgetting to tighten lug nuts. Heard that one several times about a local (and quite respected!) tire shop.

JoeAltmaier 7y ago

Hm. Wife had eye check at big box store. The guy said "Oh, you have Macular Degeneration. Nothing to do about it sorry. Just go home and go blind". She came home in tears of course. So I said "Go to a reputable ophthalmologist and get a real opinion". So she did. Of course nothing is wrong with her eyes (despite the power-of-suggestion effects she experienced, but miraculously cleared up once she got a reliable exam). The Dr did say "I can see how they made the mistake; you have some small adhesions to your retina, but they'll clear up by themselves" So no, I'm not going to a big box store to get my medical care. Never mind the price. I'll get a professional, or go without. Can't be worse than our experience at the discount-home-goods place.

fma 7y ago
For what it's worth...those eye glasses places are run by optometrists (usually) and not an ophthalmologist. An ophthalmologist has more medical training. They are all independent of the store and just pay rent. But they are all professionals... Edit: Also if you have a real medical issue w/ your eye, definitely see an ophthalmologist. Optometrists are for glasses and minor eye issues...they aren't going to be doing surgery on you.
learc83 7y ago
When you get your eyes checked for glasses you go to an optometrist. Doesn't matter if it's big box store or a local guy--they have the same credentials. An ophthalmologist is an MD who specializes in eyes, and that's who you want to go to when you have a more serious problem. 2 completely different things, and not really anything to do with where the optometrist was located.
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  So what were they doing, diagnosing and then saying there was no point in getting a second opinion?
  - ghaff 7y ago
    It sounds like a very incompetent optometrist (and if they weren't one, someone basically impersonating one). They're eye specialists after all who go to a 4-year post-undergraduate program, just not M.D. doctors. At a minimum, they should presumably have told your wife to book an appointment with an ophthalmologist immediately.

artemisyna 7y ago

Very curious to see how this plays out. There's a bunch of underinsured (or outright not insured) folk in the very locations where Walmart is opening these, so it has the potential to kill a couple of different birds with one stone. From a public benefits side, it gives a path of medical care for those that otherwise wouldn't have it (beyond say, an emergency room visit). It also lower prices by competing against insurance bloat. In doing so, Walmart (may) be able to create a sustainable business by tapping a market (folk that aren't currently going for medical coverage anyway) that would otherwise be untapped.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
This could also control costs if government managed systems (Medicare, Medicaid) partner with Walmart to provide payment. Easier to negotiate with Walmart as a single entity versus a network of vision and dental providers across the nation.
- beepboopbeep 7y ago
  Or we could just...provide it through the government like any other sane country.
  - bhupy 7y ago
    That’s certainly an option, but the meta-question is: which mechanism can produce health/pharma goods and services at lower costs and higher quality, markets or government allocation? If the answer is the latter, then why aren’t we replicating that mechanism across other essential goods like food and clothing?
    - gruez 7y ago
      >then why aren’t we replicating that mechanism across other essential goods like food and clothing? maybe because the competition doesn't work as well in healthcare sector? or that there isn't a whole scheme of inflated prices that insurance companies negotiate down to, but uninsured people are forced to pay?

proc0 7y ago

This is hilarious. I'm no universal healthcare idealist, but there is something to be said about health services having the wrong incentives in doing it for-profit. What incentives do for-profit pharmaceuticals have to keep people healthy? Potentially none. What incentives do they have to keep people sick? Probably billions of dollars if not more. The problem is you can't risk your health. When buying a product you can risk a "clever" company that sells you a subpar product, but you can't really risk a "clever" pharmaceutical that sells you a subpar medicine or service.

sykick 7y ago
I'm curious why the reasons you elucidated aren't enough to make you a universal healthcare idealist. Do you mean by this that you don't want universal care or that you don't care about the issue or something else? If you mean by this that you don't want universal healthcare under what circumstances would you want this? I ask not to engage in a debate or to try to change your mind. I won't respond to anything you write. I'm just curious about people who don't advocate for universal healthcare what their reasoning is. For the record, I think everyone should have access to the healthcare system and that no one should profit by denying a person care. I also don't think that being rich ought to grant you better access or quicker access to the system since resources are limited and the type of care or quickness or care should not be influenced by money.
- proc0 7y ago
  I think it's a logistics problem. Perhaps every state could offer a free healthcare option. Private healthcare is available in single-payer countries but you still pay taxes, and in the U.S. health insurance companies have changed the system so that they are always in control and there isn't any real competition for any other insurance. For prices to go down there should be real competition for these services, but I don't see that anywhere. Either government fully controls and taxes, or private companies control the government and in turn the market.
awb 7y ago
> What incentives do for-profit pharmaceuticals have to keep people healthy? In a competitive market when people aren't happy with a product or service they take their business elsewhere. Over time companies with bad intentions get weeded out or never get off the ground.

justlexi93 7y ago

Wow, let us see where this will go.

cityzen 7y ago

a megacorp that stiffs employees on health care gets into health care. Cool story, Walmart, hope the Walton children enjoy their slice of that $3.5 trillion pie.

Avalon42 7y ago

I'm a graduate student in a small city. I would gladly use this dental cleaning service. I haven't been to the dentist in like 2 years because I really can't afford it. I actually get my prescriptions via Walmart already without insurance because it cheaper than using the insurance given to the grad students.

briandilley 7y ago

I can't tell if this is a good thing, or a bad thing.

dayvid 7y ago
Ideally it would be a solid hedge against the government going nowhere with improving the cost of healthcare. If it makes people get checked up more often, it could reduce overall healthcare costs because more issues get caught early. Combine it with an app that offers specific recommendations and reminders based on your health profile, and you'd have an interesting startup. (this probably won't happen due to HIPAA/privacy issues and not being in Walmart's general wheelhouse).

ijidak 7y ago

I am EXCITED to see how this plays out. It is astounding to me how locked down certain medical tests are. Like, if I want an EKG, why can't I just walk in to a place and get it done at a reasonable price? And without a doctor's approval? And I pay for insurance. But I just want to be able to monitor my vitals myself, whenever I feel like it. It seems like it would drive higher utilization of equipment and lower prices if these types of diagnostic tests were readily available at a place like a CVS or a Walmart. I would gladly even pay $50 per month for unlimited access to a place to just come in, get my blood sugar, kidney function, heart function, liver function, etc. tested once per month! As important as health is, and as much as Americans spend on it, it is shocking to me how gated everything is. It hurts my health and my pocketbook simultaneously! I've always wondered why a company like Walmart doesn't just provide $20 EKGs, and $25 tooth cleanings. Like, why is so easy to get a hamburger at any time of day, but like pulling teeth to just run somewhere and get a quick, inexpensive EKG to make sure everything is ok with your heart..? What am I missing? Are there legitimate safety reasons these mundane diagnostics are so locked down? Or are these services available and I just don't know about it? Again, I pay for health insurance, but I still feel like if I want a quick EKG, it will take me 3 weeks to see a doctor, and by then I might be dead. I don't want to see a doctor, I just want an EKG done for my own peace of mind. But health Care is not my area of expertise. So perhaps there are very legitimate reasons these diagnostics and labs are so difficult to self-request at reasonable prices.

dickeytk 7y ago
Well if it’s just an EKG you’re after: https://www.alivecor.com/ https://www.alivecor.com/ But I agree with your overall point regardless
WillDaSilva 7y ago
>Are there legitimate safety reasons these mundane diagnostics are so locked down? Healthcare is not my area of expertise either, but my understanding is that the short answer to your question is yes. For a longer introduction to the issues surrounding letting anyone get whatever diagnostics they want to pay for, this Medlife Crisis video that came out today seems appropriate: https://youtu.be/yNzQ_sLGIuA https://youtu.be/yNzQ_sLGIuA

gdsdfe 7y ago

This is why I think Bernie Sanders won't be the next president, headlines like this.

usaphp 7y ago

> talk about their anxieties with a counselor for $1 a minute I would get more anxiety just by looking at my watch if I am being charged per minute

obmelvin 7y ago
I understand your point, but comparatively $30 for 30 minutes isn't that expensive considering you (seemingly) don't have to worry about insurance.

harry8 7y ago

This is in Bloomberg. Who themselves have announced they are Mike's propaganda. Skimmed the article and couldn't find any reason it's a story /today/. Why is it a story today? Speculate. The US healthcare system is third world standard. Great if you're rich, horrendous if you're not. Just like say, India, for example. US is the richest country on earth. Any story about US healthcare not mentioning how much worse it is than every other industrialized nation runs the risk of impersonating propaganda. So if this isn't propaganda they've disguised it effectively. Remember when we used to make jokes about Pravda. Radio Moscow. Here we are in the free world. We can do better about sensible policy discussion than this. Really.

koolba 7y ago

If I can walk in without an appointment, see a doctor after a reasonable wait, and then get a prescription for antibiotics that can be filled on the spot, then I’m 100% on board with this.

vikramkr 7y ago
hopefully the prescription for antibiotics is warranted and walmart isn't handing out prescriptions to everyone with the cold or flu
- winrid 7y ago
  This! When I was in China the experience was as described by your parent comment except the doctor insisted she give me a prescription for herbal medicine since it's better for me... (Had the flu, REALLY wanted nyquil, but it's illegal there it seems).
  - winrid 7y ago
    *Since she said it was better for me. Obviously that is debatable...
Corrado 7y ago
I live in the Ohio Valley area and the biggest problem we run into is seasonal allergies. That doesn't sound so bad as its just a stuffy nose at first, however after a couple of weeks it turns into a nasty sinus infection. Getting an antibiotic through a traditional Dr. can take many days (or even weeks). Going to the "after-care" is inconvenient and can take hours. If I could pop into WalMart when I feel this coming on, I would do it in a heartbeat! Especially if it meant that I didn't have to do all the insurance stuff. Even better if the whole visit costs the same as my insurance co-pay ($30)!
- wccrawford 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure there's been a few times in the last few years that my wife has called up a doctor on the phone and gotten a prescription for her sinus infection, and then just went to Target and filled it. She didn't have to physically see a doctor. I'm also pretty sure it was a service that her health care provided, so you should ask your health care provider if they have something similar.

jariel 7y ago

I have been thinking for years that the only economic entity that might be able to take this on is Wallmart. I believed that if there was a single thing Barack Obama could do, it would have been to convince Wallmart to heavily invest in healthcare, the point of building clinics. Walmart is quite a different beast than other companies. Walmart, by strategy, does not compete on margin, they compete on volume. Since high margins are a problem for volume, they actively try to suck out margins in a product all along the value chain. Walmart pushes suppliers to improve their own cost metrics and has enough power to do it. They basically use their leverage to force down prices, knowing they'll make it up in the long run on volume. This is a very, very different approach to business than basically anywhere else, and possibly has ever existed and it's one of the few magic things that makes Walmart what it is. The 'literati' classes love to hate on Walmart, but consider how powerful this machine is: it basically sucks profits and inefficiency out of the value chain like a vacuum, handing over the surpluses to consumers. They basically enable 100 million Americans to live at a standard of living not otherwise possible. Health Care is the most bloated sector in the entire world, and there's so much juicy fat to be cut, if there's any operational entity has the scale, operational ability, customer reach, efficiency to pull this off it's walmart. I hope they expand into basic medicine, family medicine, all of the basic kind of testing, and insurance. I can't say I'm otherwise a huge fan of Walmart, but if they end up raping and pillaging healthcare in the US, they could literally be creating the biggest benefit capitalism ever provided for Americans. I'm a huge, huge fan of this. I haven't stepped into a Walmart in years, but I'm thinking I need my teeth cleaned ...

Jonahgay 7y ago

Tell Bloomberg to stop doxing me

rustybolt 7y ago

Given the quality I've seen in American megastores (I've seen bicycles seem really dangerous to ride -- is there no institution that regulates vehicles?), my knee-jerk reaction is that this is a terrible idea. At the same time, I'm all for accessible and good healthcare, so let's see how this plays out.

freddie_mercury 7y ago
Wal-Mart sells something like 2 million bicycles a year. If they're actually selling "really dangerous" bicycles then it should be easy for you to point at some actual statistics about it. After all, in America there are regularly recalls for things like "we manufactured 600 bicycle forks that might crack and pose an fall hazard"[1] "we made 800 bicycles where the caliper might come into contact with a broken spoke"[2] "we manufactured 4,100 steer tubes that can become loose"[3] [1]: https://www.cpsc.gov/es/Recalls/2016/enve-recalls-bicycle-forks https://www.cpsc.gov/es/Recalls/2016/enve-recalls-bicycle-fo... [2]: https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/Trek-Recalls-Disc-Bicycles https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/Trek-Recalls-Disc-Bicycles [3]:https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2016/Box-Components-Recalls-BMX-Bicycle-Forks https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2016/Box-Components-Recalls-BMX... So where's the evidence of the tens of thousands of "really dangerous" bicycles being sold in America?
- rustybolt 7y ago
  I didn't say that Walmart sells dangerous bicycles. I said that some supermarkets sell bicycles that seem dangerous to ride, so I'm wondering if the regulations are strict enough. More specifically, when I was in the USA I've seen bicycles at the K-mart, so I was referring to those. It seems I'm not the only one who think those bikes are terrible: https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/8xvfv2/has_anyone_purchased_a_100150_bicycle_from_kmart/ https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/8xvfv2/has_anyon... Still, you make a good point in showing that there actually are at least some regulations. Whether they are strict enough and focus on the right points is not entirely clear to me.
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LatteLazy 7y ago

I heard a podcast on this recently where they cynically concluded that Walmart is doing this primarily to have more control over the healthcare costs of its employees. Will a Walmart doctor recommend AN expensive MRI for a Walmart employee if his boss doesn't like that?

zer0faith 7y ago

A little competition in this space is LONG over due.

theshadowknows 7y ago

100% guarantee you that Walmart will make you sign a waiver of your PHI rights before you bust up in there and get a $25 blood test.

doggydogs94 7y ago

I am only surprised that Walmart took this long to get into the lucrative health care market.