14 ms·

Report to local authority in the UK if you see a kid using Tor, VMs, Linux etc.

380 points by Santosh83 7y ago

josteink 7y ago
But, uh, Russians and fake news, right?
rvz 7y ago
This is close to parody-level solutions here. Although this really doesn't represent the whole of the UK but just the West Midlands region, the age old assumption that kids on Kali Linux + VBox + Discord = Hacking is really beyond comical these days. Unfortunately, when it comes to some parts of the UK marketing their solutions to preventing cybercrime and blackhats, this is just one of their finest ideas. /s
- lastres0rt 7y ago
  VBox + Discord = Mac Kid who wants to play games only written for Windows. Really top-notch logic there in the UK. Brexit's finest.
  - 45ure 7y ago
    >Really top-notch logic there in the UK. Brexit's finest. Relax. This is an example of some jobsworth in West Midlands, who has binge-watched Mr. Robot, got carried away trying to impress the boss' and released this under the cover of 'Safer Internet Day 2020' initiative. It is not a UK policy and it is definitely not related to Brexit. This hasn't made it into the news cycle outside of social media, because of other pressing matters like Covid-19, storms, cabinet reshuffle etc. Once it does, most tech savvy Brits will be having a good laugh, while others will ignore the message entirely and start searching for these tools ─ either way it is a non-story. https://www.saferinternet.org.uk/safer-internet-day/2020 https://www.saferinternet.org.uk/safer-internet-day/2020
    - AdrianB1 7y ago
      It is always sad when you see people not understanding humor.
      - meowface 7y ago
        The post was unnecessarily injecting political opinions and their view of the average intellect of those who hold others. It was humor, just not good humor. (And I'm even a strong Brexit opponent; though American.)
- zozbot234 7y ago
  Kali Linux seems to have become popular as an "elite" d00d's distro of choice, for whatever reason. In fact, it is specifically intended as a penetration-testing tool only and not for general-purpose use, because it forgoes some security mitigations that you generally want to keep enabled on your actual systems.
  - smhenderson 7y ago
    At least Kali seems to be taking it well... The top reply when I just looked at the tweet is from them: --- Have to admit it’s sort of nice they give kids a roadmap on where to get started. We all know the easiest way to get a kid to do something is to tell them they can’t or should not, then they list specific item not to do. To bad they did not link to https://kali.training https://kali.training --- As a parent I totally agree!
    - toyg 7y ago
      That was my reaction too — if I were a kid seeing this, I’d immediately google the shit out of this list... Maybe it’s some sort of clever reverse-psychology trick to train the next generation of GCHQ minions; or maybe it’s a social honeypot. More likely, somebody somewhere had to throw some money at friends and cronies and came up with this “campaign”.
  - big_chungus 7y ago
    That's because it comes with stuff pre-installed and an easy interface. Apparently, this is enough for people to ignore that it uses root as the default user, is not at all stable, etc. It shows up on all the crummy "Top 10 Hacker Systems!" listicles as the top entry, so people use it. I guess no one wants to install ubuntu and add katoolin repos, because that's not leet enough.
  - skocznymroczny 7y ago
    One big reason is the Mr Robot TV series. The main character uses Kali Linux for "hacking", and it was quite a popular show amongst casual computer users. As a result, many people who had limited knowledge about security started installing Kali Linux on their laptops so they could be "hackers" too.
- mariopt 7y ago
  I sincerely hope this won’t stop kids from learning about Linux and contribute to kernel code. Labeling Linux as dangerous tool is far from reality. Parents reading this, let your kids use Linux!
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    If anything, making Linux look dangerous and forbidden will encourage more kids to try it out.
  - ithkuil 7y ago
    To be fair it singles out "Kali Linux" not Linux in general.
    - jpangs88 7y ago
      Although true kali Linux is bot general and has a bunch of "hacking" tools on it, how many people who will read this will know the difference? I could see many people seeing this and conflating it with Linux as a whole unfortunately...
      - ithkuil 7y ago
        yes, that's likely, but then, nevertheless, it's important to take care of being correct when criticising something
  - friendly_fren 7y ago
    >Parents reading this, let your kids use Linux!
- keanzu 7y ago
  > this is just one of their finest ideas. /s Not sure about the /s on the end there. This was the finest idea they could come up with as evidenced by them running with it and distributing this leaflet. Presumably there were worse ideas they considered and rejected leaving this as their finest idea. Not a good idea but the best they could come up with.
- jotm 7y ago
  I lived in the West Midlands... Let's just say CS/IT knowledge is severely lacking. On the other hand, if you're fine with a rather low wage (but more than enough to live comfortably) and being treated as unimportant all the time, there's plenty of work around.
lastres0rt 7y ago
Way to bury the lede -- DISCORD is considered 1337 Haxor Software by these clowns? Really?
- big_chungus 7y ago
  It's not, though there are a surprising number of servers that sell stuff like hacked accounts, shady coupon codes, etc. Very little actual hacking; I don't think I know anyone who uses it for anything serious. Also creepy as all get out to tell people to call the police on their own children.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  Have you seen how dank the memes are? Clearly if that's not proof of illicit activity of the most odious, I don't know what is.
1000units 7y ago
More interesting than the ad itself is how many HN'ers will use this as an opportunity to call its creators stupid, thereby betraying their autism. Spoiler: its language reveals that it is a joke, and a pretty funny one at that.
- detaro 7y ago
  Ad for what?
  - 1000units 7y ago
    This might also be a difficult concept for HN'ers, but ads aren't only for selling shiny baubles, one's mother, and SaaS apps.
  - Dim25 7y ago
    kali linux? not sure what was the original comment.
    - Forgivenessizer 7y ago
      Hey kid, wanna download some LINUX?!
heartbeats 7y ago
> 1. Has your son asked you to change ISPs? > 2. Are you finding programs on your computer that you don't remember installing? > 3. Has your child asked for new hardware? > 4. Does your child read hacking manuals? > 5. How much time does your child spend using the computer each day? > 6. Does your son use Quake? > 7. Is your son becoming argumentative and surly in his social behaviour? > 8. Is your son obsessed with "Lunix"? > 9. Has your son radically changed his appearance? > 10. Is your son struggling academically? The more things change, the more they stay the same, eh?
- loopz 7y ago
  Is your 8-year old playing Left4Dead2? Please tell'em to turn off mic, rq, log off and delete game. This a game for mature adult playing!
- 0xcde4c3db 7y ago
  For the uninitiated: "Is Your Son a Computer Hacker?" [1] [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20191111044139/http://www.adequacy.org/public/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html https://web.archive.org/web/20191111044139/http://www.adequa...
  - big_chungus 7y ago
    Wow. I honestly can't tell; is this satire? The sad thing is that this remains many people's view of computers. The first thing this person is missing is the ingenuity of people who want to get around stuff; some crummy filter or lower-powered hardware won't dissuade anyone who's curious.
    - smhenderson 7y ago
      I felt the same, and still am not sure but if it wasn't, just wow. It felt like just a naive parent not knowing what they're talking about but this one had me really scratching my head... If your son has requested a new "processor" from a company called "AMD", this is genuine cause for alarm. AMD is a third-world based company who make inferior, "knock-off" copies of American processor chips. They use child labor extensively in their third world sweatshops, and they deliberately disable the security features that American processor makers, such as Intel, use to prevent hacking. AMD chips are never sold in stores, and you will most likely be told that you have to order them from internet sites. Do not buy this chip! This is one request that you must refuse your son, if you are to have any hope of raising him well.
draugadrotten 7y ago
Let's just hope that parents that are computer savvy enough to actually find and identify kali linux on a kid's computer are smart enough to talk to their kid instead of snitching on their own to the police.
AdmiralAsshat 7y ago
The NSA also thought visitors of LinuxJournal were "extremists," so what else is new?[0] [0]https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/07/the-nsa-thinks-linux-journal-is-an-extremist-forum/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/07/the-n...
- protomyth 7y ago
  I'm old enough to remember when Radio Shack was freaking people out by not selling them things if they had some unknown combination of components bought. They were so damn insistent on getting your address. Only store I always paid cash at because I was on an electronics kick and my friend had been told he was not allowed to buy some combination of components. That was friggin hilarious (he was building a controller for a pump), and I bought the components at another store location (Radio Shack was sadly the only game in town at the time).
- grkvlt 7y ago
  no, they don't. anyone who took more than 30s to read further than the headlines would see that this is an example of a set of checks for users of TAILS and points out that extremists often use this. its pretty obvious they don't consider linux journal in its own a sign of extremism. these would be refined to be more useful and then used together to check for TAILS_terms in a user's emails and they are also accessing TAILS_websites and then in conjunction with other flags to find POIs.
- e12e 7y ago
  Ah, guilt by association. https://youtu.be/Y0_IME9WsHQ https://youtu.be/Y0_IME9WsHQ Pete Seger on being black listed in America, 1965 CBC Archives
big_chungus 7y ago
Kali's response is pretty funny: > Have to admit it’s sort of nice they give kids a roadmap on where to get started. We all know the easiest way to get a kid to do something is to tell them they can’t or should not, then they list specific item not to do. To bad they did not link to https://kali.training https://kali.training Seriously though, I bet they'll get a bunch of people downloading this stuff just because it's "forbidden".
mirimir 7y ago
In postwar East Germany, about 1% of the population were reportedly informants for Stasi.[0] I wonder what percentage of parents get caught up in this. I bet that it's more than 1%. 0) https://www.dw.com/en/east-german-stasi-had-189000-informers-study-says/a-3184486-1 https://www.dw.com/en/east-german-stasi-had-189000-informers...
- motohagiography 7y ago
  Snitch culture is a very dangerous and contemptible thing. It's what kept Cuba, NK, and the former soviet empire running. You just need to demoralize a small minority to watch over their neighbours, reward them with something petty, make a few big examples of individuals, and you can create a climate of fear to rule with. Where I grew up, teachers used to punish tellers along side the alleged offender because it was bad for society.
  - heartbeats 7y ago
    > Where I grew up, teachers used to punish tellers along side the alleged offender because it was bad for society. Absolute legend. Where was this?
    - gowld 7y ago
      I had a teacher who was a WWII Holocaust survivor. One day a kid tattled about something and the teacher roared "Don't snitch!"
    - toyg 7y ago
      Not OP but wouldn’t be surprised if it was around the Med... in Italy there is a kids’ saying that goes “a spy is not a child of Mary” (“chi fa la spia non è figlio di Maria”), i.e. grasses are going to hell.
      - pnako 7y ago
        The south of Italy is entirely corrupted by organized crime, so I'm not sure it's a very good example.
pgoggijr 7y ago
Don't really see the problem with this - the optimist in me believes that this can be helpful for parents who might be in over their heads. The leaflet isn't necessarily asking for vigilance to put kids on watch lists, just to give parents and kids some information on what is/not wrong to do. "let us know so we can give advice and engage them into positive diversions" Sounds like police actually trying to have a positive impact here.
- protomyth 7y ago
  Reporting your kid to the police for non-crimes will not have a positive outcome. Your kid will be on a list, never trust you again, and have to overcome so many more obstacles. Every generation of parents finds something that is "over their heads" and they need to deal with it like responsible adults. Know what your kid is interested in and not fear monger it. Deal with issues like an adult with educating yourself.
  - homonculus1 7y ago
    Seconded. Police are not There To Help You. Police enforce the law. When in doubt of the law, they simply enforce. Don't ever tip someone off to the police unless you have a real reason to believe they have or will harm a person.
    - tomatocracy 7y ago
      I don't know if you're in the UK, but this isn't true for most of our police, certainly outside the cities. If anything, this fact is something they're proud of. As an example, I called them once (using a non emergency number before anyone says anything) because I was worried about a vulnerable relative who I couldn't get hold of and they were great - went to his house and called back to say he was fine, just couldn't hear the phone over the TV.
      - keanzu 7y ago
        You didn't report a faux crime, you requested a welfare check. But even a wellness check can go exceedingly wrong in the US. "He said he called a non emergency number for a wellness check. Smith said minutes later he heard a gunshot." https://www.npr.org/2019/10/13/769891781/fort-worth-officer-kills-woman-in-her-bedroom-in-response-to-open-structure-call https://www.npr.org/2019/10/13/769891781/fort-worth-officer-...
xet7 7y ago
Oh no, should all kids that have Raspberry Pi be reported? When you see kid using Linux on Raspberry Pi? https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/made-in-the-uk/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/made-in-the-uk/
- cs02rm0 7y ago
  Kali Linux is a particular flavour which includes pen testing tools, which is why it makes the list, they're not referring to all distributions. Don't make me defend this rubbish! =)
  - xet7 7y ago
    Unfortunately this HN article title has "Linux etc", and not specifying any specific distro.
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    I think all or at least most Linux distributions include pen testing tools in their official repositories, Kali Linux just ships them out of the box. It seems that most kids using Kali Linux do it because it's "elite" or whatever, they don't know how to actually use it. I'm much more worried about a kid running Debian than one running Kali Linux, if only because Debian isn't "cool" so they must actually know what they're doing. That being said, I don't expect law enforcement to be that sophisticated.
ReptileMan 7y ago
One of the reasons why I supported brexit as non UK european. Also their attitude to knives.
cushychicken 7y ago
No such thing as bad press :)
dvh 7y ago
1. Find which politician uses Android 2. Report them for using Linux 3. ??? 4. Profit
techopoly 7y ago
Reminds me of this article about a student whose property was seized because he had computer expertise: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/boston-college-prompt-commands-are-suspicious https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/boston-college-prompt-...
mnm1 7y ago
This is one way to dumb down the population and fill them with fear. Given the current events in the UK, neither of these goals are surprising. Anti-intellectualism seems to be rising in many parts of the world and is clearly correlated with the rise of right wing authoritarianism. It makes sense as authoritarians want to keep people stupid and ignorant of what is going on by controlling them through fear. This is what happens when the culture adopts authoritarian views. The US isn't much better in this regard. One can really see the similarities between the societies when looking at their worst aspects, authoritarianism, anti-intellectualism, and fear mongering.
jeffadotio 7y ago
"Have you ever, while running Linux, questioned the teachings of the Mormon Church?" "Micheal, where did you get this?" "It's from a website."
Dim25 7y ago
That's great, the more kids will play with Kali and other tools the better. Rough times ahead, youngsters shall be empowered.
proactivesvcs 7y ago
Ironically, if a child is seen to be using Windows 10, Android, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, then their parents and guardians need to ensure that the children understand that such software and online services are a danger to their privacy and mental health, and should warn them of how advertising will manipulate them and cyberbullying harm them. That these entities do not care about them or reducing any potential harm. Our governments need to be curating or writing guides to help parents and guardians teach children about these dangers and how to avoid them. Open source software and online services that respect the user are entities to cherish and encourage, rather than treat like a boogeyman who's earned the title without any material evidence.
- alias_neo 7y ago
  Actually they do; in the UK at least, the NCSC (National Cyber Security Centre) provide lots of good information about cyber security, handling your passwords properly, child safety online, as well as various guidelines for other cyber security/safety online concerns. https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/section/information-for/individuals-families https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/section/information-for/individuals-... Also, to note, the NCA replied on Twitter to point out that the use of their logo on the poster was unauthorised and not endorsed.
  - proactivesvcs 7y ago
    Wow, that looks like a rather useful resource. I'm surprised this is the first time I've come across it. Thank you for the informative pointer!
    - alias_neo 7y ago
      No problem. I work in info-sec/comms-sec in the UK and it's an invaluable resource for guidelines on information handling and security practice. We often refer to it when we want to set a policy in the company I work for, for example on password strength in any given year. I think it can be very useful also for startups that don't specialise in security to make sane security policies based on something "official".
jpangs88 7y ago
Also the title sounds funny, "What is on a child's computer?" As well as the very 1984 like, "engage them into positive diversions." Great copy!
void_nill 7y ago
Cool kids use Black Arch Linux.
atoav 7y ago
I am generally worried with were most of the anglosphere seems to be headed these days. The UK always had an irrational fixation towards surrveilance technology, but with a gaze at the political developements of the past years this existing infrastructure gets a whole new meaning I am afraid
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  Yes. We're laughing at the idiocy, but the idiocy is becoming more and more entrenched. And more and more idiotic. And we're also missing the subtext - which isn't specifically about using Kali etc, but about the implication that anyone clever, curious, and different should be considered dangerous.
mlrtime 7y ago
You wouldn't download a car?
TallGuyShort 7y ago
Reminiscent of this: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our... "I along with many others tried Linux during college"... but I never inhaled.
- Brave-Steak 7y ago
  Wow, that's horrifying. It's also missing an update saying he actually received all his stuff back, so chances are he never did.
dyingkneepad 7y ago
Am I the only one surprised for seeing them mention Discord instead of IRC?
- ryanlol 7y ago
  It’s only adults left on IRC these days, all the script kiddie chats happen on Discord.
lozf 7y ago
For some it seems Tom Scott's "Oversight" [0] can't come soon enough. [0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIuf1V1FhpY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIuf1V1FhpY) Well worth taking ~2 minutes out of your day for if you havent't seen it.
UI_at_80x24 7y ago
Something you may not know about Kali: It is used by the DoD, Canada's DND, and the UK's MoD, and by extension I assume all of the 5eyes. It is the standard tool. This isn't "just because" they saw it on Mr.Robot.
- aidenn0 7y ago
  So you're saying my kid is using military technology!
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
"Hey guys, isn't it funny how so many people have no idea what's dangerous or not because we, as an industry, do an absolutely shit job of helping people understand computing in any meaningful way?"
- RealStickman 7y ago
  How many people would actually listen if they aren't at least mildly interested in technology?
- godelski 7y ago
  Science had this problem until scientific communicators became really popular, which really started with Sagan. Since then I'm not sure we've had anyone near that level, though deGrasse Tyson ("Black Science Man") does a pretty good job (Sagan set a high bar). I'm not sure a character or even community like this exists for tech.
- ben_w 7y ago
  Not to claim we can’t be better, but: • Medicine: anti-vaccination • Chemistry: “X is one atom from being bleach” (so is water) • Law: Freemen of the land • Biology: Anything related to GMOs • Physics: “Will the LHC destroy the universe?” • Politics: “My opponent literally eats babies in the basement of a pizza parlour”
- rurp 7y ago
  Ignorance is not a good reason to fearmonger and spread disinformation.
- catalogia 7y ago
  This industry, more than most others, makes a great deal of information about it available for free on the internet. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Jonnax 7y ago
It's pretty dangerous to use Virtualbox. Oracle might run after you for money.
philprx 7y ago
Report your kid if he/she has a brain and is not getting brainwashed on Facebook or YouTube. This kind of thinking is really a bigger problem imho
e12e 7y ago
Oh, be mindful of VMS for sure. Eh, VMs, is it?
vibrafox 7y ago
That's how it starts. One day you're rolling your own kernel, the next you're knee deep in Docker writing goroutines to keep one step ahead of the police.
- jcelerier 7y ago
  https://xkcd.com/456/ https://xkcd.com/456/
Kubuxu 7y ago
I find this really funny as I had my parents buy me "Hacking: The Art of Exploitation" in bookstore when I was 13.
Forgivenessizer 7y ago
Discord is highly popular with white supremacists.
Brave-Steak 7y ago
This shit is why Russia and China have so many hackers attacking Western companies while the West is stuck in the stone ages.
mirimir 7y ago
Back when I was a child, it would have been about headphones with alligator clips ;)
Aeolun 7y ago
I don’t know. I feel like the person that wrote this knew exactly what they were doing, and also knew the joke would be completely lost on whoever asked them to do this.
DoctorOetker 7y ago
sounds like infosec control freaks trampling civil right to self-development as if their voluntary submission to work related "need to know" practices extend to the public at large who did not sign the contracts they did... whereas in the past people fought to get their skills recognized, soon people will fight for skill privacy
nimbius 7y ago
first, the email in the photo goes nowhere. its west-midlands.pnn.police.co.uk, not "uk" unless DNS in the UK does something we're not supposed to know about Second, theres no mx or mailserver there...the SOA is AWS though... THIRD: If I see a kid with a $200 wireless hacking toolkit running TOR on a Kali KVM hypervisor full of metasploit nodes and actively discussing the whole thing on discord, and its my kid, im calling the local university.
- semanticist 7y ago
  Nope, police.uk is a real valid domain name that the UK police have been using for years. That isn't a sign this is a fake, although it may well be. Registrations at the second level of ccTLDs is not uncommon, and Nominet has relatively recently opened .uk registrations to anyone, after a period of trademark and .co.uk-holders only.
matheusmoreira 7y ago
Nice advertising. Now those kids will know exactly what to download in order to access the deep web and try out exploits. Do they not know about the Streisand effect?
StanislavPetrov 7y ago
What's really sad is the near certainty that there is some parent out there who reported their child to the police for playing Quake and now that kid has an official report floating around official networks flagging him for this. In these days of data crunching, social credit scores, and all forms of algorithmically driven assessments there's a significant chance that this could damage that kid in ways he might never even find out about.
gurumeditations 7y ago
Thanks, I didn’t know what Metasploit was before. An easy to use hacking tool sounds very interesting to me...
kingpiss 7y ago
Your son could just be training to be a penetration tester.
pvorb 7y ago
The response by Kali Linux nails it: https://mobile.twitter.com/kalilinux/status/1227703199584395267 https://mobile.twitter.com/kalilinux/status/1227703199584395...
ZoomZoomZoom 7y ago
I think it's tangential to the recent discussions of decreasing computer literacy of modern children and teenagers. Kids should break stuff apart, mess with the parts, try to reassemble them, bypass obstacles, change everything, ruin it all and make it whole again in their own ways. This is not just the natural way of learning, this is also the base of engineering and all scientific thought. If have children (or know someone who does) and don't encourage this behaviour, please reconsider. Humans should be explorers, not the "consumers" of the universe.
collyw 7y ago
If your kid is using any of these he probably has a promising career ahead of him (or her).

380 points by Santosh83 7y ago

But, uh, Russians and fake news, right?

rvz 7y ago

This is close to parody-level solutions here. Although this really doesn't represent the whole of the UK but just the West Midlands region, the age old assumption that kids on Kali Linux + VBox + Discord = Hacking is really beyond comical these days. Unfortunately, when it comes to some parts of the UK marketing their solutions to preventing cybercrime and blackhats, this is just one of their finest ideas. /s

lastres0rt 7y ago
VBox + Discord = Mac Kid who wants to play games only written for Windows. Really top-notch logic there in the UK. Brexit's finest.
- 45ure 7y ago
  >Really top-notch logic there in the UK. Brexit's finest. Relax. This is an example of some jobsworth in West Midlands, who has binge-watched Mr. Robot, got carried away trying to impress the boss' and released this under the cover of 'Safer Internet Day 2020' initiative. It is not a UK policy and it is definitely not related to Brexit. This hasn't made it into the news cycle outside of social media, because of other pressing matters like Covid-19, storms, cabinet reshuffle etc. Once it does, most tech savvy Brits will be having a good laugh, while others will ignore the message entirely and start searching for these tools ─ either way it is a non-story. https://www.saferinternet.org.uk/safer-internet-day/2020 https://www.saferinternet.org.uk/safer-internet-day/2020
  - AdrianB1 7y ago
    It is always sad when you see people not understanding humor.
    - meowface 7y ago
      The post was unnecessarily injecting political opinions and their view of the average intellect of those who hold others. It was humor, just not good humor. (And I'm even a strong Brexit opponent; though American.)
zozbot234 7y ago
Kali Linux seems to have become popular as an "elite" d00d's distro of choice, for whatever reason. In fact, it is specifically intended as a penetration-testing tool only and not for general-purpose use, because it forgoes some security mitigations that you generally want to keep enabled on your actual systems.
- smhenderson 7y ago
  At least Kali seems to be taking it well... The top reply when I just looked at the tweet is from them: --- Have to admit it’s sort of nice they give kids a roadmap on where to get started. We all know the easiest way to get a kid to do something is to tell them they can’t or should not, then they list specific item not to do. To bad they did not link to https://kali.training https://kali.training --- As a parent I totally agree!
  - toyg 7y ago
    That was my reaction too — if I were a kid seeing this, I’d immediately google the shit out of this list... Maybe it’s some sort of clever reverse-psychology trick to train the next generation of GCHQ minions; or maybe it’s a social honeypot. More likely, somebody somewhere had to throw some money at friends and cronies and came up with this “campaign”.
- big_chungus 7y ago
  That's because it comes with stuff pre-installed and an easy interface. Apparently, this is enough for people to ignore that it uses root as the default user, is not at all stable, etc. It shows up on all the crummy "Top 10 Hacker Systems!" listicles as the top entry, so people use it. I guess no one wants to install ubuntu and add katoolin repos, because that's not leet enough.
- skocznymroczny 7y ago
  One big reason is the Mr Robot TV series. The main character uses Kali Linux for "hacking", and it was quite a popular show amongst casual computer users. As a result, many people who had limited knowledge about security started installing Kali Linux on their laptops so they could be "hackers" too.
mariopt 7y ago
I sincerely hope this won’t stop kids from learning about Linux and contribute to kernel code. Labeling Linux as dangerous tool is far from reality. Parents reading this, let your kids use Linux!
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  If anything, making Linux look dangerous and forbidden will encourage more kids to try it out.
- ithkuil 7y ago
  To be fair it singles out "Kali Linux" not Linux in general.
  - jpangs88 7y ago
    Although true kali Linux is bot general and has a bunch of "hacking" tools on it, how many people who will read this will know the difference? I could see many people seeing this and conflating it with Linux as a whole unfortunately...
    - ithkuil 7y ago
      yes, that's likely, but then, nevertheless, it's important to take care of being correct when criticising something
- friendly_fren 7y ago
  >Parents reading this, let your kids use Linux!
keanzu 7y ago
> this is just one of their finest ideas. /s Not sure about the /s on the end there. This was the finest idea they could come up with as evidenced by them running with it and distributing this leaflet. Presumably there were worse ideas they considered and rejected leaving this as their finest idea. Not a good idea but the best they could come up with.
jotm 7y ago
I lived in the West Midlands... Let's just say CS/IT knowledge is severely lacking. On the other hand, if you're fine with a rather low wage (but more than enough to live comfortably) and being treated as unimportant all the time, there's plenty of work around.

lastres0rt 7y ago

Way to bury the lede -- DISCORD is considered 1337 Haxor Software by these clowns? Really?

big_chungus 7y ago
It's not, though there are a surprising number of servers that sell stuff like hacked accounts, shady coupon codes, etc. Very little actual hacking; I don't think I know anyone who uses it for anything serious. Also creepy as all get out to tell people to call the police on their own children.
vorpalhex 7y ago
Have you seen how dank the memes are? Clearly if that's not proof of illicit activity of the most odious, I don't know what is.

1000units 7y ago

More interesting than the ad itself is how many HN'ers will use this as an opportunity to call its creators stupid, thereby betraying their autism. Spoiler: its language reveals that it is a joke, and a pretty funny one at that.

detaro 7y ago
Ad for what?
- 1000units 7y ago
  This might also be a difficult concept for HN'ers, but ads aren't only for selling shiny baubles, one's mother, and SaaS apps.
- Dim25 7y ago
  kali linux? not sure what was the original comment.
  - Forgivenessizer 7y ago
    Hey kid, wanna download some LINUX?!

heartbeats 7y ago

> 1. Has your son asked you to change ISPs? > 2. Are you finding programs on your computer that you don't remember installing? > 3. Has your child asked for new hardware? > 4. Does your child read hacking manuals? > 5. How much time does your child spend using the computer each day? > 6. Does your son use Quake? > 7. Is your son becoming argumentative and surly in his social behaviour? > 8. Is your son obsessed with "Lunix"? > 9. Has your son radically changed his appearance? > 10. Is your son struggling academically? The more things change, the more they stay the same, eh?

loopz 7y ago
Is your 8-year old playing Left4Dead2? Please tell'em to turn off mic, rq, log off and delete game. This a game for mature adult playing!
0xcde4c3db 7y ago
For the uninitiated: "Is Your Son a Computer Hacker?" [1] [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20191111044139/http://www.adequacy.org/public/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html https://web.archive.org/web/20191111044139/http://www.adequa...
- big_chungus 7y ago
  Wow. I honestly can't tell; is this satire? The sad thing is that this remains many people's view of computers. The first thing this person is missing is the ingenuity of people who want to get around stuff; some crummy filter or lower-powered hardware won't dissuade anyone who's curious.
  - smhenderson 7y ago
    I felt the same, and still am not sure but if it wasn't, just wow. It felt like just a naive parent not knowing what they're talking about but this one had me really scratching my head... If your son has requested a new "processor" from a company called "AMD", this is genuine cause for alarm. AMD is a third-world based company who make inferior, "knock-off" copies of American processor chips. They use child labor extensively in their third world sweatshops, and they deliberately disable the security features that American processor makers, such as Intel, use to prevent hacking. AMD chips are never sold in stores, and you will most likely be told that you have to order them from internet sites. Do not buy this chip! This is one request that you must refuse your son, if you are to have any hope of raising him well.

draugadrotten 7y ago

Let's just hope that parents that are computer savvy enough to actually find and identify kali linux on a kid's computer are smart enough to talk to their kid instead of snitching on their own to the police.

AdmiralAsshat 7y ago

The NSA also thought visitors of LinuxJournal were "extremists," so what else is new?[0] [0]https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/07/the-nsa-thinks-linux-journal-is-an-extremist-forum/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/07/the-n...

protomyth 7y ago
I'm old enough to remember when Radio Shack was freaking people out by not selling them things if they had some unknown combination of components bought. They were so damn insistent on getting your address. Only store I always paid cash at because I was on an electronics kick and my friend had been told he was not allowed to buy some combination of components. That was friggin hilarious (he was building a controller for a pump), and I bought the components at another store location (Radio Shack was sadly the only game in town at the time).
grkvlt 7y ago
no, they don't. anyone who took more than 30s to read further than the headlines would see that this is an example of a set of checks for users of TAILS and points out that extremists often use this. its pretty obvious they don't consider linux journal in its own a sign of extremism. these would be refined to be more useful and then used together to check for TAILS_terms in a user's emails and they are also accessing TAILS_websites and then in conjunction with other flags to find POIs.
e12e 7y ago
Ah, guilt by association. https://youtu.be/Y0_IME9WsHQ https://youtu.be/Y0_IME9WsHQ Pete Seger on being black listed in America, 1965 CBC Archives

big_chungus 7y ago

Kali's response is pretty funny: > Have to admit it’s sort of nice they give kids a roadmap on where to get started. We all know the easiest way to get a kid to do something is to tell them they can’t or should not, then they list specific item not to do. To bad they did not link to https://kali.training https://kali.training Seriously though, I bet they'll get a bunch of people downloading this stuff just because it's "forbidden".

mirimir 7y ago

In postwar East Germany, about 1% of the population were reportedly informants for Stasi.[0] I wonder what percentage of parents get caught up in this. I bet that it's more than 1%. 0) https://www.dw.com/en/east-german-stasi-had-189000-informers-study-says/a-3184486-1 https://www.dw.com/en/east-german-stasi-had-189000-informers...

motohagiography 7y ago
Snitch culture is a very dangerous and contemptible thing. It's what kept Cuba, NK, and the former soviet empire running. You just need to demoralize a small minority to watch over their neighbours, reward them with something petty, make a few big examples of individuals, and you can create a climate of fear to rule with. Where I grew up, teachers used to punish tellers along side the alleged offender because it was bad for society.
- heartbeats 7y ago
  > Where I grew up, teachers used to punish tellers along side the alleged offender because it was bad for society. Absolute legend. Where was this?
  - gowld 7y ago
    I had a teacher who was a WWII Holocaust survivor. One day a kid tattled about something and the teacher roared "Don't snitch!"
  - toyg 7y ago
    Not OP but wouldn’t be surprised if it was around the Med... in Italy there is a kids’ saying that goes “a spy is not a child of Mary” (“chi fa la spia non è figlio di Maria”), i.e. grasses are going to hell.
    - pnako 7y ago
      The south of Italy is entirely corrupted by organized crime, so I'm not sure it's a very good example.

pgoggijr 7y ago

Don't really see the problem with this - the optimist in me believes that this can be helpful for parents who might be in over their heads. The leaflet isn't necessarily asking for vigilance to put kids on watch lists, just to give parents and kids some information on what is/not wrong to do. "let us know so we can give advice and engage them into positive diversions" Sounds like police actually trying to have a positive impact here.

protomyth 7y ago
Reporting your kid to the police for non-crimes will not have a positive outcome. Your kid will be on a list, never trust you again, and have to overcome so many more obstacles. Every generation of parents finds something that is "over their heads" and they need to deal with it like responsible adults. Know what your kid is interested in and not fear monger it. Deal with issues like an adult with educating yourself.
- homonculus1 7y ago
  Seconded. Police are not There To Help You. Police enforce the law. When in doubt of the law, they simply enforce. Don't ever tip someone off to the police unless you have a real reason to believe they have or will harm a person.
  - tomatocracy 7y ago
    I don't know if you're in the UK, but this isn't true for most of our police, certainly outside the cities. If anything, this fact is something they're proud of. As an example, I called them once (using a non emergency number before anyone says anything) because I was worried about a vulnerable relative who I couldn't get hold of and they were great - went to his house and called back to say he was fine, just couldn't hear the phone over the TV.
    - keanzu 7y ago
      You didn't report a faux crime, you requested a welfare check. But even a wellness check can go exceedingly wrong in the US. "He said he called a non emergency number for a wellness check. Smith said minutes later he heard a gunshot." https://www.npr.org/2019/10/13/769891781/fort-worth-officer-kills-woman-in-her-bedroom-in-response-to-open-structure-call https://www.npr.org/2019/10/13/769891781/fort-worth-officer-...

xet7 7y ago

Oh no, should all kids that have Raspberry Pi be reported? When you see kid using Linux on Raspberry Pi? https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/made-in-the-uk/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/made-in-the-uk/

cs02rm0 7y ago
Kali Linux is a particular flavour which includes pen testing tools, which is why it makes the list, they're not referring to all distributions. Don't make me defend this rubbish! =)
- xet7 7y ago
  Unfortunately this HN article title has "Linux etc", and not specifying any specific distro.
- beatgammit 7y ago
  I think all or at least most Linux distributions include pen testing tools in their official repositories, Kali Linux just ships them out of the box. It seems that most kids using Kali Linux do it because it's "elite" or whatever, they don't know how to actually use it. I'm much more worried about a kid running Debian than one running Kali Linux, if only because Debian isn't "cool" so they must actually know what they're doing. That being said, I don't expect law enforcement to be that sophisticated.

ReptileMan 7y ago

One of the reasons why I supported brexit as non UK european. Also their attitude to knives.

cushychicken 7y ago

No such thing as bad press :)

dvh 7y ago

1. Find which politician uses Android 2. Report them for using Linux 3. ??? 4. Profit

techopoly 7y ago

Reminds me of this article about a student whose property was seized because he had computer expertise: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/boston-college-prompt-commands-are-suspicious https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/boston-college-prompt-...

mnm1 7y ago

This is one way to dumb down the population and fill them with fear. Given the current events in the UK, neither of these goals are surprising. Anti-intellectualism seems to be rising in many parts of the world and is clearly correlated with the rise of right wing authoritarianism. It makes sense as authoritarians want to keep people stupid and ignorant of what is going on by controlling them through fear. This is what happens when the culture adopts authoritarian views. The US isn't much better in this regard. One can really see the similarities between the societies when looking at their worst aspects, authoritarianism, anti-intellectualism, and fear mongering.

jeffadotio 7y ago

"Have you ever, while running Linux, questioned the teachings of the Mormon Church?" "Micheal, where did you get this?" "It's from a website."

Dim25 7y ago

That's great, the more kids will play with Kali and other tools the better. Rough times ahead, youngsters shall be empowered.

proactivesvcs 7y ago

Ironically, if a child is seen to be using Windows 10, Android, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, then their parents and guardians need to ensure that the children understand that such software and online services are a danger to their privacy and mental health, and should warn them of how advertising will manipulate them and cyberbullying harm them. That these entities do not care about them or reducing any potential harm. Our governments need to be curating or writing guides to help parents and guardians teach children about these dangers and how to avoid them. Open source software and online services that respect the user are entities to cherish and encourage, rather than treat like a boogeyman who's earned the title without any material evidence.

alias_neo 7y ago
Actually they do; in the UK at least, the NCSC (National Cyber Security Centre) provide lots of good information about cyber security, handling your passwords properly, child safety online, as well as various guidelines for other cyber security/safety online concerns. https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/section/information-for/individuals-families https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/section/information-for/individuals-... Also, to note, the NCA replied on Twitter to point out that the use of their logo on the poster was unauthorised and not endorsed.
- proactivesvcs 7y ago
  Wow, that looks like a rather useful resource. I'm surprised this is the first time I've come across it. Thank you for the informative pointer!
  - alias_neo 7y ago
    No problem. I work in info-sec/comms-sec in the UK and it's an invaluable resource for guidelines on information handling and security practice. We often refer to it when we want to set a policy in the company I work for, for example on password strength in any given year. I think it can be very useful also for startups that don't specialise in security to make sane security policies based on something "official".

jpangs88 7y ago

Also the title sounds funny, "What is on a child's computer?" As well as the very 1984 like, "engage them into positive diversions." Great copy!

void_nill 7y ago

Cool kids use Black Arch Linux.

atoav 7y ago

I am generally worried with were most of the anglosphere seems to be headed these days. The UK always had an irrational fixation towards surrveilance technology, but with a gaze at the political developements of the past years this existing infrastructure gets a whole new meaning I am afraid

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
Yes. We're laughing at the idiocy, but the idiocy is becoming more and more entrenched. And more and more idiotic. And we're also missing the subtext - which isn't specifically about using Kali etc, but about the implication that anyone clever, curious, and different should be considered dangerous.

mlrtime 7y ago

You wouldn't download a car?

TallGuyShort 7y ago

Reminiscent of this: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our... "I along with many others tried Linux during college"... but I never inhaled.

Brave-Steak 7y ago
Wow, that's horrifying. It's also missing an update saying he actually received all his stuff back, so chances are he never did.

dyingkneepad 7y ago

Am I the only one surprised for seeing them mention Discord instead of IRC?

ryanlol 7y ago
It’s only adults left on IRC these days, all the script kiddie chats happen on Discord.

lozf 7y ago

For some it seems Tom Scott's "Oversight" [0] can't come soon enough. [0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIuf1V1FhpY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIuf1V1FhpY) Well worth taking ~2 minutes out of your day for if you havent't seen it.

UI_at_80x24 7y ago

Something you may not know about Kali: It is used by the DoD, Canada's DND, and the UK's MoD, and by extension I assume all of the 5eyes. It is the standard tool. This isn't "just because" they saw it on Mr.Robot.

aidenn0 7y ago
So you're saying my kid is using military technology!

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago

"Hey guys, isn't it funny how so many people have no idea what's dangerous or not because we, as an industry, do an absolutely shit job of helping people understand computing in any meaningful way?"

RealStickman 7y ago
How many people would actually listen if they aren't at least mildly interested in technology?
godelski 7y ago
Science had this problem until scientific communicators became really popular, which really started with Sagan. Since then I'm not sure we've had anyone near that level, though deGrasse Tyson ("Black Science Man") does a pretty good job (Sagan set a high bar). I'm not sure a character or even community like this exists for tech.
ben_w 7y ago
Not to claim we can’t be better, but: • Medicine: anti-vaccination • Chemistry: “X is one atom from being bleach” (so is water) • Law: Freemen of the land • Biology: Anything related to GMOs • Physics: “Will the LHC destroy the universe?” • Politics: “My opponent literally eats babies in the basement of a pizza parlour”
rurp 7y ago
Ignorance is not a good reason to fearmonger and spread disinformation.
catalogia 7y ago
This industry, more than most others, makes a great deal of information about it available for free on the internet. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Jonnax 7y ago

It's pretty dangerous to use Virtualbox. Oracle might run after you for money.

philprx 7y ago

Report your kid if he/she has a brain and is not getting brainwashed on Facebook or YouTube. This kind of thinking is really a bigger problem imho

e12e 7y ago

Oh, be mindful of VMS for sure. Eh, VMs, is it?

vibrafox 7y ago

That's how it starts. One day you're rolling your own kernel, the next you're knee deep in Docker writing goroutines to keep one step ahead of the police.

jcelerier 7y ago
https://xkcd.com/456/ https://xkcd.com/456/

Kubuxu 7y ago

I find this really funny as I had my parents buy me "Hacking: The Art of Exploitation" in bookstore when I was 13.

Forgivenessizer 7y ago

Discord is highly popular with white supremacists.

Brave-Steak 7y ago

This shit is why Russia and China have so many hackers attacking Western companies while the West is stuck in the stone ages.

mirimir 7y ago

Back when I was a child, it would have been about headphones with alligator clips ;)

Aeolun 7y ago

I don’t know. I feel like the person that wrote this knew exactly what they were doing, and also knew the joke would be completely lost on whoever asked them to do this.

DoctorOetker 7y ago

sounds like infosec control freaks trampling civil right to self-development as if their voluntary submission to work related "need to know" practices extend to the public at large who did not sign the contracts they did... whereas in the past people fought to get their skills recognized, soon people will fight for skill privacy

nimbius 7y ago

first, the email in the photo goes nowhere. its west-midlands.pnn.police.co.uk, not "uk" unless DNS in the UK does something we're not supposed to know about Second, theres no mx or mailserver there...the SOA is AWS though... THIRD: If I see a kid with a $200 wireless hacking toolkit running TOR on a Kali KVM hypervisor full of metasploit nodes and actively discussing the whole thing on discord, and its my kid, im calling the local university.

semanticist 7y ago
Nope, police.uk is a real valid domain name that the UK police have been using for years. That isn't a sign this is a fake, although it may well be. Registrations at the second level of ccTLDs is not uncommon, and Nominet has relatively recently opened .uk registrations to anyone, after a period of trademark and .co.uk-holders only.

matheusmoreira 7y ago

Nice advertising. Now those kids will know exactly what to download in order to access the deep web and try out exploits. Do they not know about the Streisand effect?

StanislavPetrov 7y ago

What's really sad is the near certainty that there is some parent out there who reported their child to the police for playing Quake and now that kid has an official report floating around official networks flagging him for this. In these days of data crunching, social credit scores, and all forms of algorithmically driven assessments there's a significant chance that this could damage that kid in ways he might never even find out about.

gurumeditations 7y ago

Thanks, I didn’t know what Metasploit was before. An easy to use hacking tool sounds very interesting to me...

kingpiss 7y ago

Your son could just be training to be a penetration tester.

pvorb 7y ago

The response by Kali Linux nails it: https://mobile.twitter.com/kalilinux/status/1227703199584395267 https://mobile.twitter.com/kalilinux/status/1227703199584395...

ZoomZoomZoom 7y ago

I think it's tangential to the recent discussions of decreasing computer literacy of modern children and teenagers. Kids should break stuff apart, mess with the parts, try to reassemble them, bypass obstacles, change everything, ruin it all and make it whole again in their own ways. This is not just the natural way of learning, this is also the base of engineering and all scientific thought. If have children (or know someone who does) and don't encourage this behaviour, please reconsider. Humans should be explorers, not the "consumers" of the universe.

collyw 7y ago

If your kid is using any of these he probably has a promising career ahead of him (or her).