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Article is definitely worth a read. > From 2014 to 2020, Spotify bought 15 companies, companies that build everything from data analytics to music and audio pr

Article is definitely worth a read. > From 2014 to 2020, Spotify bought 15 companies, companies that build everything from data analytics to music and audio production tools to audio ad tools to licensing platforms, and podcasting networks. > Spotify is directly mimicking Google and Facebook, and attempting to roll up power over digital audio markets the way Google and Facebook did over the internet. It has already done so in music. As it exists today, the podcasting ecosystem is a very open system, with publicly accessible feeds and the ability to use any app/player. I'm very afraid that if Spotify keeps this up, it's going to lead to a very fragmented system similar to the film/TV streaming industry (Netflix, Prime, Apple TV, et al.) which would require you to install proprietary apps and pay for multiple subscriptions to listen to stuff. Likely several different apps for different shows and companies. Unfortunately, it appears that Spotify is motivated by increased profits and getting a market monopoly to completely destroy the open system that we have today, which will also make it undoubtedly harder for newcomers to enter the industry. Right now Spotify complains about how Apple apps have an unfair advantage on Apple's platform, but they're doing the same thing. Spotify podcasts have an unfair advantage on Spotify's platform. I don't believe the platform should also be a content creator. This is really shitty of Spotify to do.

chris123 7y ago
Spotify kinda sucks. And has since they got their first taste of success. I was living in Sweden when they launched and signed up. It was great then. And for a couple of years. Then some new investors came in and it went this direction, just extract value by all means possible, winner take all, destroy, destroy, destroy. Except for themselves. Thanks Silicon Valley vampires, you ruin pretty much everything you touch
- wyxuan 7y ago
  No, the original people in spotify are the people behind this push into podcasts (see last season of the gimlet podcast Startup). It started from when they saw how german use of spotify exploded as publishers put audiobooks on spotify.
- dikei 7y ago
  I hate it too, but I can't completely fault them. Companies need to be profitable, and the pricing race to the bottom means they can hardly increase individual pricing, which in turn force them to exploit other directions.
  - etrabroline 7y ago
    >force them to exploit other directions So if recreational heroin had never been made illegal, pharmaceutical companies would today be "forced" to sell it? Some things simply should not be allowed to be profitable, and it is not up to for-profit companies to decide what is and what isn't. It's up to society as a whole, though government, to decide what is allowed to be bought and sold. Personal data should be in the category of "not legal to buy and sell".
    - dikei 7y ago
      > So if recreational heroin had never been made illegal, pharmaceutical companies would today be "forced" to sell it? If one company does start to sell it, its competitors will probably be "forced" to sell it too. > Some things simply should not be allowed to be profitable, and it is not up to for-profit companies to decide what is and what isn't. It's up to society as a whole, though government, to decide what is allowed to be bought and sold. Personal data should be in the category of "not legal to buy and sell". Agree
- Nicholas_C 7y ago
  I use Spotify every day and think it’s a good product. Why do you think it sucks? I’m genuinely curious.
  - jasonjayr 7y ago
    I used Soundcloud on a daily basis, and I really like the discovery and constant new music available there. A lot of the artists I follow keep moving to Spotify, or releasing there first, and I've tried re-setting up on Spotify, but it's been very frustrating so far.
  - jv22222 7y ago
    My main issue with Spotify is there is no zombie apocalypse backup. What I mean is, if the zombie apocalypse happened, and you were lucky enough to have solar power to keep your devices going, it wouldn't matter because you would loose access to your favorite songs. There are a lot of folks who's only music source is Spotify. I just hope for their sake, there is never a zombie apocalypse ;)
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - amiga_500 7y ago
      I started to use their free client to sample music after getting totally sick of youtube advertising. If I like something I get an actual copy of the music. It blows my mind that people would just keep music on the cloud.
      - hombre_fatal 7y ago
        Apps backed by the cloud still have a local download option (including Spotify) that does the job for the brief moments you don't have internet. I realized that needing every song I'd ever want to listen to on my local disk was just a form of digital hoarding. I backed up hundreds of gigabytes of my music, deleted it from my computer, and realized I never cared enough to restore it despite years of collecting and organizing it.
- rorykoehler 7y ago
  Capitalism will eat itself
- seizeheures 7y ago
  that and Tencent...
wyxuan 7y ago
Yeah the fragmenting has started, more and more spotify exclusive podcasts/ podcast episodes are making their way onto the platform. I recently listened an episode to ELT (Every Little Thing, a gimlet podcast) where they embedded a survey into spotify. Seems like an omen for things to come. My major qualm in the short term is that the spotify app doesn't do a good job separating music and podcasts.
- nradov 7y ago
  I enjoy an occasional gimlet but how can someone produce a whole podcast about one cocktail?
  - wyxuan 7y ago
    gimlet is a company acquired by spotify that makes many podcasts, although it would be boring if there was a podcast about one cocktail
- alextheparrot 7y ago
  Can you clarify the last part? My Spotify app has two tabs at the top of libraries "Music" and "Podcasts". The home page is a bit less discrete, but still usually has the word "Podcast" in the subheaders. I actually really like their daily drive auto-generated playlist, it is a combination of podcasts and music (And for a 1hr+ commute I have time to take in both long and short-form media).
  - NikolaeVarius 7y ago
    Its on the home page and I cant block it
raz32dust 7y ago
They have to do the same thing because Apple will otherwise eat their lunch. It looks like platforms have to monopolize and then engage in rent-seeking to thrive, or even survive, in this industry. That's everyone's playbook now.
- awakeasleep 7y ago
  This is the toxic excuse every MBA uses to justify their immoral decisions. "If I don't do it, somebody else will" Every time you say that shit, you choose to accelerate the decay of society. A flower will die in the autumn... does that justify you stomping through the garden in May? It's especially ridiculous in the context of podcasts because Apple- a company that understands the principle better than most, has failed to destroy the podcast market for 20 years and counting.
  - Brave-Steak 7y ago
    > does that justify you stomping through the garden in May? MBA: Is it something we can monetize? It might be worth considering. > It's especially ridiculous in the context of podcasts because Apple- a company that understands the principle better than most, has failed to destroy the podcast market for 20 years and counting. I don't understand this part though. I haven't gotten the sense that they ever tried to monopolize or destroy the podcast market. Hell, from what I can tell, they've enabled it to thrive as an open marketplace in a way that Spotify certainly isn't interested in.
scarface74 7y ago
Spotify isn’t doing anything to podcasts. An audio program that doesn’t publish an RSS feed that I can subscribe to in my podcast player of choice isn’t a podcast. It’s also not something I’m going to waste my time listening to. As far as Apple, Apple’s podcast directory and app are the very definition of “open”. Apple just indexes publicly available submitted RSS feeds. When you subscribe from Apple’s podcast app, the app itself polls the publishers RSS feed and plays directly from the publisher’s servers. You can also subscribe to a podcast directly from the app using the url to the podcast - it doesn’t have to be in Apple’s directory. Apple even offers a public API of the podcast directory that can be used by anyone on any platform.
- daveFNbuck 7y ago
  Spotify is trying to replace podcasts with the thing that isn't a podcast. You can decide not to listen to things that aren't podcasts, but if Spotify is successful, that may mean that podcasts you currently enjoy are no longer available in a medium you're willing to consume. That's the worry here. I've already seen this start happening with Parcast. Since being purchased by Spotify, they're using their existing podcasts to advertise other "podcasts" that are only available streaming on Spotify. I'm guessing the ones I listen to now will eventually go away into the Spotify walled garden.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    The podcasts I enjoy the most I can 99% guarantee that they will not go to Spotify: The Talk Show - the most popular (and profitable AFAIK) Apple related podcast. The chance of Gruber going Spotify only are basically 0. Accidental Tech Podcast - seeing that one of the cohosts (Marco Arment) actually developed one of the most popular podcast apps for iOS, I don’t think he is going to make a podcast that can’t be listened to on his own app. Under The Radar - another podcast by Marco Arment. Exponent - Ben Thompson of Stratechery. He doesn’t directly monetize his podcast. He has a very successful paid newsletter. He wouldn’t want to put his podcast out of reach of the most people. Manager Tools/Career Tools - the only ads they do on their podcasts are for their own products. Some developer focused podcasts Various NPR podcasts. Etc. All the podcasts I listen to have a vested interests in reaching the broadest audience possible.
pier25 7y ago
IIRC Spotify tried to buy Marco Arment's podcasting app. Edit: It's called Overcast. Edit 2: I think I read that on Twitter... but I can't find the tweet anymore.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  > Edit: ... > Edit 2: ... Why not just inline your edits instead of acting like people are tracking the revision history of your 12-minute-old comment? I guarantee nobody will notice or call you out.
  - pier25 7y ago
    You are right, it's just an old habit.
    - celticmusic 7y ago
      It's a reasonable habit by people who value transparency. It's not a matter of whether or not people care. Keep doing it, screw the people who can somehow find umbrage at such a non-issue.
    - Brave-Steak 7y ago
      Plenty of people do it, myself included. Don't change your habits just based on one cranky old bugger.
  - daveFNbuck 7y ago
    If I load the page after he posts the original comment and respond pointing out that the podcasting app is called overcast, an inline comment makes me look bad while the edit makes it clear that there was a context in which my response made sense.
impalallama 7y ago
podcast of always been open. TV and movies have always run on licensing. They are very different things, business speaking and I don’t agree with the comparison. of all the podcast I’ve listen to 0 operate on any kind of exclusivity. While I'm sure Spotify would love to have that kind of power I just don't see that happening because the precedence isn't there
- schnevets 7y ago
  I am curious about the market fragmenting into "Premium Products" and the "Community Offerings", similar to how some content producers made the leap to Netflix/HBO/streaming services, while others wallow in YouTube
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
toofy 7y ago
I fear the same things you’ve listed, but it’s important to remember that the podcasters themselves will choose these proprietary systems and we can’t let them escape blame if they do. Podcasting is currently as open as anything can possibly be and it would take a conscious choice from a podcaster to stop listing things in open formats. It’s important to remember one of the biggest benefits podcasting offers – at least imho – hobbyists who just want to make a show about their favorite interest. Almost every podcaster does it as a sideGigFunProject. And just like anything, we see it time and time again, the real damage will come when a critical mass decides they need to do it full time and make millions. A conscious choice to move away from a passion project. That move is what has consistently shifted open projects into walled gardens, time and time again. It very much so harms the hobbyist in the interest of “the professional.”. This is what the previous gen-Xers call “selling out” and I think they were correct that you lose something in this transition.
mrzool 7y ago
> Right now Spotify complains about how Apple apps have an unfair advantage on Apple's platform, but they're doing the same thing. They're not doing the same thing. From the article: > I’ve heard there are some issues with how Apple deals with ratings, but so far, Apple operates as a benevolent despot, largely not collecting data and not privileging its own content. Also worth noting: Apple distributes Podcasts using RSS, and has kept the ecosystem open for decades. They only provide a platform for distribution and discovery. Spotify, on the other side, wants to seize the whole ecosystem and lock it up in its walled garden. Let us not compare the two.
- rahuldottech 7y ago
  You missed my point. I was referring to this: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2019-03-13/consumers-and-innovators-win-on-a-level-playing-field/ https://newsroom.spotify.com/2019-03-13/consumers-and-innova... Spotify is doing with podcasts the same thing that they complain about Apple doing with apps.
  - mrzool 7y ago
    Oh I see, now it makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
giancarlostoro 7y ago
Till somebody acquires Spotify, the question is who will? Easily could see Microsoft doing so. Me personally, I wont be buying into Spotify, I tried it years back (2008 ~ or the early days) and it didn't convince me. The All Music Access option that Google has is the best option for paid music so far. Anybody making their podcasts exclusive to a platform will have to produce really enticing content or I will not go out of my way to add a new subscription to Spotify. I have my doubts I ever will join Spotify just because of a particular podcast.
- benhurmarcel 7y ago
  I think it's free to access podcasts on Spotify, you don't need a subscription.
Gravityloss 7y ago
Yeah, Spotify is already conveniently integrated to a lot of cars, smart TV:s and A/V receivers.

chris123 7y ago

Spotify kinda sucks. And has since they got their first taste of success. I was living in Sweden when they launched and signed up. It was great then. And for a couple of years. Then some new investors came in and it went this direction, just extract value by all means possible, winner take all, destroy, destroy, destroy. Except for themselves. Thanks Silicon Valley vampires, you ruin pretty much everything you touch

wyxuan 7y ago
No, the original people in spotify are the people behind this push into podcasts (see last season of the gimlet podcast Startup). It started from when they saw how german use of spotify exploded as publishers put audiobooks on spotify.
dikei 7y ago
I hate it too, but I can't completely fault them. Companies need to be profitable, and the pricing race to the bottom means they can hardly increase individual pricing, which in turn force them to exploit other directions.
- etrabroline 7y ago
  >force them to exploit other directions So if recreational heroin had never been made illegal, pharmaceutical companies would today be "forced" to sell it? Some things simply should not be allowed to be profitable, and it is not up to for-profit companies to decide what is and what isn't. It's up to society as a whole, though government, to decide what is allowed to be bought and sold. Personal data should be in the category of "not legal to buy and sell".
  - dikei 7y ago
    > So if recreational heroin had never been made illegal, pharmaceutical companies would today be "forced" to sell it? If one company does start to sell it, its competitors will probably be "forced" to sell it too. > Some things simply should not be allowed to be profitable, and it is not up to for-profit companies to decide what is and what isn't. It's up to society as a whole, though government, to decide what is allowed to be bought and sold. Personal data should be in the category of "not legal to buy and sell". Agree
Nicholas_C 7y ago
I use Spotify every day and think it’s a good product. Why do you think it sucks? I’m genuinely curious.
- jasonjayr 7y ago
  I used Soundcloud on a daily basis, and I really like the discovery and constant new music available there. A lot of the artists I follow keep moving to Spotify, or releasing there first, and I've tried re-setting up on Spotify, but it's been very frustrating so far.
- jv22222 7y ago
  My main issue with Spotify is there is no zombie apocalypse backup. What I mean is, if the zombie apocalypse happened, and you were lucky enough to have solar power to keep your devices going, it wouldn't matter because you would loose access to your favorite songs. There are a lot of folks who's only music source is Spotify. I just hope for their sake, there is never a zombie apocalypse ;)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - amiga_500 7y ago
    I started to use their free client to sample music after getting totally sick of youtube advertising. If I like something I get an actual copy of the music. It blows my mind that people would just keep music on the cloud.
    - hombre_fatal 7y ago
      Apps backed by the cloud still have a local download option (including Spotify) that does the job for the brief moments you don't have internet. I realized that needing every song I'd ever want to listen to on my local disk was just a form of digital hoarding. I backed up hundreds of gigabytes of my music, deleted it from my computer, and realized I never cared enough to restore it despite years of collecting and organizing it.
rorykoehler 7y ago
Capitalism will eat itself
seizeheures 7y ago
that and Tencent...

wyxuan 7y ago

Yeah the fragmenting has started, more and more spotify exclusive podcasts/ podcast episodes are making their way onto the platform. I recently listened an episode to ELT (Every Little Thing, a gimlet podcast) where they embedded a survey into spotify. Seems like an omen for things to come. My major qualm in the short term is that the spotify app doesn't do a good job separating music and podcasts.

nradov 7y ago
I enjoy an occasional gimlet but how can someone produce a whole podcast about one cocktail?
- wyxuan 7y ago
  gimlet is a company acquired by spotify that makes many podcasts, although it would be boring if there was a podcast about one cocktail
alextheparrot 7y ago
Can you clarify the last part? My Spotify app has two tabs at the top of libraries "Music" and "Podcasts". The home page is a bit less discrete, but still usually has the word "Podcast" in the subheaders. I actually really like their daily drive auto-generated playlist, it is a combination of podcasts and music (And for a 1hr+ commute I have time to take in both long and short-form media).
- NikolaeVarius 7y ago
  Its on the home page and I cant block it

raz32dust 7y ago

They have to do the same thing because Apple will otherwise eat their lunch. It looks like platforms have to monopolize and then engage in rent-seeking to thrive, or even survive, in this industry. That's everyone's playbook now.

awakeasleep 7y ago
This is the toxic excuse every MBA uses to justify their immoral decisions. "If I don't do it, somebody else will" Every time you say that shit, you choose to accelerate the decay of society. A flower will die in the autumn... does that justify you stomping through the garden in May? It's especially ridiculous in the context of podcasts because Apple- a company that understands the principle better than most, has failed to destroy the podcast market for 20 years and counting.
- Brave-Steak 7y ago
  > does that justify you stomping through the garden in May? MBA: Is it something we can monetize? It might be worth considering. > It's especially ridiculous in the context of podcasts because Apple- a company that understands the principle better than most, has failed to destroy the podcast market for 20 years and counting. I don't understand this part though. I haven't gotten the sense that they ever tried to monopolize or destroy the podcast market. Hell, from what I can tell, they've enabled it to thrive as an open marketplace in a way that Spotify certainly isn't interested in.

scarface74 7y ago

Spotify isn’t doing anything to podcasts. An audio program that doesn’t publish an RSS feed that I can subscribe to in my podcast player of choice isn’t a podcast. It’s also not something I’m going to waste my time listening to. As far as Apple, Apple’s podcast directory and app are the very definition of “open”. Apple just indexes publicly available submitted RSS feeds. When you subscribe from Apple’s podcast app, the app itself polls the publishers RSS feed and plays directly from the publisher’s servers. You can also subscribe to a podcast directly from the app using the url to the podcast - it doesn’t have to be in Apple’s directory. Apple even offers a public API of the podcast directory that can be used by anyone on any platform.

daveFNbuck 7y ago
Spotify is trying to replace podcasts with the thing that isn't a podcast. You can decide not to listen to things that aren't podcasts, but if Spotify is successful, that may mean that podcasts you currently enjoy are no longer available in a medium you're willing to consume. That's the worry here. I've already seen this start happening with Parcast. Since being purchased by Spotify, they're using their existing podcasts to advertise other "podcasts" that are only available streaming on Spotify. I'm guessing the ones I listen to now will eventually go away into the Spotify walled garden.
- scarface74 7y ago
  The podcasts I enjoy the most I can 99% guarantee that they will not go to Spotify: The Talk Show - the most popular (and profitable AFAIK) Apple related podcast. The chance of Gruber going Spotify only are basically 0. Accidental Tech Podcast - seeing that one of the cohosts (Marco Arment) actually developed one of the most popular podcast apps for iOS, I don’t think he is going to make a podcast that can’t be listened to on his own app. Under The Radar - another podcast by Marco Arment. Exponent - Ben Thompson of Stratechery. He doesn’t directly monetize his podcast. He has a very successful paid newsletter. He wouldn’t want to put his podcast out of reach of the most people. Manager Tools/Career Tools - the only ads they do on their podcasts are for their own products. Some developer focused podcasts Various NPR podcasts. Etc. All the podcasts I listen to have a vested interests in reaching the broadest audience possible.

pier25 7y ago

IIRC Spotify tried to buy Marco Arment's podcasting app. Edit: It's called Overcast. Edit 2: I think I read that on Twitter... but I can't find the tweet anymore.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
> Edit: ... > Edit 2: ... Why not just inline your edits instead of acting like people are tracking the revision history of your 12-minute-old comment? I guarantee nobody will notice or call you out.
- pier25 7y ago
  You are right, it's just an old habit.
  - celticmusic 7y ago
    It's a reasonable habit by people who value transparency. It's not a matter of whether or not people care. Keep doing it, screw the people who can somehow find umbrage at such a non-issue.
  - Brave-Steak 7y ago
    Plenty of people do it, myself included. Don't change your habits just based on one cranky old bugger.
- daveFNbuck 7y ago
  If I load the page after he posts the original comment and respond pointing out that the podcasting app is called overcast, an inline comment makes me look bad while the edit makes it clear that there was a context in which my response made sense.

impalallama 7y ago

podcast of always been open. TV and movies have always run on licensing. They are very different things, business speaking and I don’t agree with the comparison. of all the podcast I’ve listen to 0 operate on any kind of exclusivity. While I'm sure Spotify would love to have that kind of power I just don't see that happening because the precedence isn't there

schnevets 7y ago
I am curious about the market fragmenting into "Premium Products" and the "Community Offerings", similar to how some content producers made the leap to Netflix/HBO/streaming services, while others wallow in YouTube

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

toofy 7y ago

I fear the same things you’ve listed, but it’s important to remember that the podcasters themselves will choose these proprietary systems and we can’t let them escape blame if they do. Podcasting is currently as open as anything can possibly be and it would take a conscious choice from a podcaster to stop listing things in open formats. It’s important to remember one of the biggest benefits podcasting offers – at least imho – hobbyists who just want to make a show about their favorite interest. Almost every podcaster does it as a sideGigFunProject. And just like anything, we see it time and time again, the real damage will come when a critical mass decides they need to do it full time and make millions. A conscious choice to move away from a passion project. That move is what has consistently shifted open projects into walled gardens, time and time again. It very much so harms the hobbyist in the interest of “the professional.”. This is what the previous gen-Xers call “selling out” and I think they were correct that you lose something in this transition.

mrzool 7y ago

> Right now Spotify complains about how Apple apps have an unfair advantage on Apple's platform, but they're doing the same thing. They're not doing the same thing. From the article: > I’ve heard there are some issues with how Apple deals with ratings, but so far, Apple operates as a benevolent despot, largely not collecting data and not privileging its own content. Also worth noting: Apple distributes Podcasts using RSS, and has kept the ecosystem open for decades. They only provide a platform for distribution and discovery. Spotify, on the other side, wants to seize the whole ecosystem and lock it up in its walled garden. Let us not compare the two.

rahuldottech 7y ago
You missed my point. I was referring to this: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2019-03-13/consumers-and-innovators-win-on-a-level-playing-field/ https://newsroom.spotify.com/2019-03-13/consumers-and-innova... Spotify is doing with podcasts the same thing that they complain about Apple doing with apps.
- mrzool 7y ago
  Oh I see, now it makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

giancarlostoro 7y ago

Till somebody acquires Spotify, the question is who will? Easily could see Microsoft doing so. Me personally, I wont be buying into Spotify, I tried it years back (2008 ~ or the early days) and it didn't convince me. The All Music Access option that Google has is the best option for paid music so far. Anybody making their podcasts exclusive to a platform will have to produce really enticing content or I will not go out of my way to add a new subscription to Spotify. I have my doubts I ever will join Spotify just because of a particular podcast.

benhurmarcel 7y ago
I think it's free to access podcasts on Spotify, you don't need a subscription.

Gravityloss 7y ago

Yeah, Spotify is already conveniently integrated to a lot of cars, smart TV:s and A/V receivers.