12 ms·
“Unprecedented” locust invasion threatens crops in East Africa
- Zenst 7y agoI wonder how drones would fair flying thru this, as on scale a locust in relation to the engines upon a drone is large in relation of a bird to an aeroplane engine.
- simias 7y agoIt seems a bit tone-deaf to worry about drones when this could trigger severe food shortages.
- tnel77 7y agoHow so? They didn’t say the safety of drones are more important than the people of East Africa. Drones could very well be used to help combat this crisis. Have you considered not being upset just for the fun of it?
- Zenst 7y agoThank you for asking that and my apologies for not initially providing a context and by that poor omission opening up the very valid and fair possibility that I was being callous and uncaring. Also thank you for taking the time to raise that question instead of blindly judging and running with the worst case presumption, thank you. I was thinking along the lines of fishing them as a food resources and drones with nets, but before I ran with that was wondering how well a drone would cope with such swarms and not something that the net did not offerup as a clear answer, either. [EDIT ADD first paragraph ]
- simias 7y agoAh, I see. I thought it was a random musing. My apologies then. That being said regardless of the efficiency of such a solution I suspect that the scale of the invasion would make it hard to make a difference lest you have an army of drones at your disposal. The area to cover is insanely large.
- Zenst 7y agoNo apology needed, and thank you for taking the time to comment your thoughts as without such feedback I would never of been able to clear things up. [EDIT ADD] Indeed, if anything I should apologize as I'd left no context behind the question and leaving that open left the possibility of callous unthoughtfulness and you most kindly and rightly so, raised that aspect. Many would of just gone with a downvote - presumed the worst and ran with it in sillence, so again thank you for taking the time to question that. If I could mod you up more for that, I would. [EDIT ADD - I was able to edit my initial reply as did seem you was being unfairly judged and I hope I've addressed that]
- bryanrasmussen 7y agoI think something more like a kite rig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kite_rig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kite_rig, but a net would be good. if they could be "thrown" up in the air quickly, have a sort of sticky inside so locust would be caught better, as they filled the net the net would become heavy and be brought down. The net should then be easily detachable somehow, attach another, throw up into the swarm. Swarm passes by, the kite netters have a couple tons of locusts netted, a good harvest. on edit: personally like because has such a 50s sci-fi feel to it.
- Zenst 7y agoI like the idea of kites, was thinking rockets and large net. As for the Sci-fi, soon as you mentioned that I oddly thought of Dune, probably the rare resource mining aspect of such swarms and climate comparison going on there.
- sitkack 7y agoBig fabric rotors, like those used on old windmills or a VAWT could scoop them out of the sky.
- Zenst 7y agoI just had a dig into what altitude they fly at and 2,000 meter ceiling would make things more complicated. Hot air balloons dropping nets, or some weather balloons - again tethered. Though would probably want to run with hydrogen for costs, just safety and training go up, so greater initial costs there. So many details. Kinda gets down to sky versions of submarine nets in predictable flight paths into crop area's as being the best spots to set such trapping nets up. Though if it turns out you just need to lay down football sized green carpet and that attracts them - well that opens up other avenues in trapping or indeed - zapping them once they touch down.
- omgwtfbyobbq 7y agoThat sounds like industrial production of kungu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunga_cake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunga_cake
- civilian 7y agoThis has already been addressed by Zenst, but this is a forum with a lot of engineers. Of course zenst was thinking about whether it's viable to use drones as a locust prevention measure, but you first have to start with whether drones can even fly in a locust swarm. Get out of here with your pre-judgement
- ChuckMcM 7y agoNot well, there are documented cases of locust swarms bringing down small planes, and causing emergencies on large planes.
- NittLion78 7y ago...as recently as 2 weeks ago, no less https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51098209 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51098209
- Zenst 7y agoThank you, suspected as much but just didn't know. Was pondering drone fishing fleets harvesting such swarms, back to the mental drawing board then for me.
- ChuckMcM 7y agoI understand that, we can make 'high protein flour' out of crickets[1] it seems like we should be able to process Locusts into some sort of protein source for human consumption. But it is really hard to actually visualize/imagine these swarms without actually being there in one. The amount of infrastructure you would have to deploy essentially on a short term basis[2] is really infeasible with current technology. [1] https://www.cricketflours.com/ https://www.cricketflours.com/ [2] Swarms are a function of environmental conditions, they grow exponentially but they die quickly when conditions change, it is the series of monsoons at the right time that have made this one so big. In "regular" years they are much smaller.
- cwmma 7y agoLocust are crickets so yes you would be able to
- ajnin 7y agoThat would mitigate the problem, but I don't think that could be used as a food source to replace what they destroyed, they eat up to their own weight per day, however insect digestion is pretty inefficient, they leave a lot of nutrients behind, so eating them up would only partially replace the losses. Also catching a substantial fraction of a swarm that is spread over a very very large area and moves by up to 150 km a day would be very hard, and is largely impossible currently.
- designium 7y ago"Locusts are the swarming phase of certain species of short-horned grasshoppers in the family Acrididae. These insects are usually solitary, but under certain circumstances become more abundant and change their behaviour and habits, becoming gregarious" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locust So, in normal circumstances, grasshoppers are benign but under certain conditions, they can form swarms.
- Zenst 7y agoYes, been studied and shown it is overcrowding that causes this and you can by rubing the back legs of a grasshopper for about 30 mins(iirc maybe shooter time) and it will start to develop wings and change. The rubbing of back legs in nature happens when you have high dense populations - overcrowding due to rushing for limited food in an area. Which evolving wings and flying elsewhere would be nature at play. Real trick would be to curtail grasshopper numbers before they swarm and perhaps a more balanced approach to grasshoppers natural enemies and encouraging habits for those will do well. Chemicals for me are a desperate solution to a problem that got overlooked. Much the same way that ant do wonders with many pests for plants, yet production methods end up curtailing environments that see them thrive in area's that would benefit. So we end up with chemicals for things like aphids when ants will eat them all up for you.
- ipsum2 7y ago> you can by rubing the back legs of a grasshopper for about 30 mins(iirc maybe shooter time) and it will start to develop wings and change. If true, this seems very effective for economic terrorism. I wonder why thats not more common.
- baroomba 7y agoA production rate of 32 locusts per person per 16-hour workday isn't enough to matter unless you have a small army of people rubbing grasshopper legs together all day, I'd think. Though it is a pretty funny image.
- Zenst 7y agoGiven Locusts have an exoskeleton, would some kinds of focused sound weapon have a viable use in bringing down such swarms?
- oneplane 7y agoImagine the source of protein you'd get! While probably not super handy (as it only happens during swarming times) and maybe even ecosystem-disruptive, turning them in to food would be useful.
- Zenst 7y agoWouldn't look at this as a farming avenue, more a way to respond to such scaled issues using tools that may very well already exist or be modified to cater for such needs. Certainly aware of crowd control sound weapons, I'd be supprised if the militaries of the world didn't have there own more powerful flavours begging for a PR test opportunity like this.
- oneplane 7y agoNow I wonder if there is a single resonant frequency that would work on all of them. The individual differences alone would be hard. Perhaps a general microwave type of weapon/harvester would work better?
- henrygrew 7y agoThe kenyan government is unprepared to handle this incident despite earlier warnings, the local minister cited a lack of an effective chemical in the local market, adding that the fight against the insect has been slowed down by the long procurement and import bureaucracies. https://kenyanlist.net/index.php?threads/munya-says-that-the-state-needs-atleast-six-months-to-eradicate-locusts.2080/ https://kenyanlist.net/index.php?threads/munya-says-that-the...
- henrygrew 7y agoscenes from the local villages, https://kenyanlist.net/index.php?threads/how-to-chase-locusts-in-kitui.1980/ https://kenyanlist.net/index.php?threads/how-to-chase-locust...
- navaati 7y agoWow, these stuff are beasts ! They look enormous !
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- felipemnoa 7y agoA giant net and you could at least eat them after they feast on your crops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locust#As_food https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locust#As_food There is no more ferocious predator than humans. If they became a delicacy all over the world they wouldn't stand a chance in hell. According to the wikipedia article: "Locusts yield about five times more edible protein per unit of fodder than cattle, and produce lower levels of greenhouse gases in the process."
- henrygrew 7y agoYeah, a good source of protein, with the huge numbers a challenge would be drying and storage
- londons_explore 7y agoYou probably already have equipment to dry and store the grain. Reuse of the same equipment to dry the insects might be doable.
- WaitWaitWha 7y agoAnd... you have Wuhan v2...
- jxramos 7y ago
- jbotz 7y ago"The swarms increase in size twentyfold with each successive generation and could reach India by June." India? Am I missing something or is this is an error in the text?
- ropiwqefjnpoa 7y agoAt 150km a day, seems possible.
- iamalocust 7y agoNo this is not an error. The desert locusts Wikipedia says the locusts can fly 100km a day. June is four months away so that's plenty of time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_locust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_locust
- onetimemanytime 7y agoapparently they can move 90 MILES a day. I guess if they have food and no predators they can move and take over.
- sp332 7y agoAt 150 kilometers per day, they could cover the 3,500 km between Egypt and India in 20 days. Of course they're not covering that much distance every day, but they can jump between distant sources of food very quickly, so smaller gaps between crops or across deserts won't stop them.
- 7y ago
- molteanu 7y agoThere was also pictorial from The Guardian a few days ago, "Billions of locusts swarm through Kenya"[1] regarding this. https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2020/jan/24/billions-of-locusts-swarm-through-kenya-in-pictures https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2020/jan/24/billio...
- zentiggr 7y agoThat's unbelieveable... I can't imagine that there's any real way to control swarms that large, and the idea of burning the entire country clean to starve them out seems a bit counterproductive.
- mc32 7y agoAside from pesticides, nets. Some places where bugs eat produce if not protected have nets covering and enclosing the whole farm.
- Pfhreak 7y agoIf the swarm is 960 square miles, and travels quickly, how much netting do you need?
- thaumasiotes 7y agoThere's a good scene depicting a locust swarm in Things Fall Apart. The traditional village that is the subject of the (fictional) story sees swarms as a blessing -- they may eat crops, but you can harvest and eat the locusts themselves, and there are so many.
- Gene_Parmesan 7y agoOh my. One swarm is ~2400 square kilometers/~930 square miles, and could contain up to 200 billion locusts. And moving at 150km per day. Madness. You can understand why various cultures have viewed them as a punishment from god. Here's this quote from https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/invertebrates/group/locusts/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/invertebrates/gro...: "Each locust can eat its weight in plants each day, so a swarm of such size would eat 423 million pounds of plants every day." This is describing a swarm a "mere" 460 sq miles in size.
- LouisSayers 7y agoCouldn’t they do something like stick up big electrified nets at the crop areas? Locusts fly into them and get buzzed? Or something similar
- henrygrew 7y agothe outer exoskeleton is quite tough and doesn't seem to conduct electricity
- londons_explore 7y agoWith enough volts, anything conducts...
- ropiwqefjnpoa 7y agoNot sure where to being with this, but locust swarms like this are a force of nature. Maybe you could save your backyard garden with nets or cover, maybe. But not acres and acres of farmland.
- onetimemanytime 7y ago>>Couldn’t they do something like stick up big electrified nets at the crop areas? Over millions and tens of millions of acres? Not doable. Maybe a genetic tweak and then release them to neutralize the rest. Poison will probably kill other beneficial or not so dangerous insects. Either way, a locust party will ruin this year crops for the unfortunate farmer being visited. This is even worst since Africa is already poor
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- sansnomme 7y agoWill fuel-air incendiary work on insect swarms?
- nicharesuk 7y agoReturn the slab, or suffer my curse.
- sitkack 7y agoUse drones with nets to catch them and turn them into food.
- imtringued 7y agoBuild a jet UAV that is resilient against locusts and just fly them into the swarm.
- zackmorris 7y agoOn that note, grasshoppers were a primary staple for many Native American tribes: http://www.native-languages.org/legends-grasshopper.htm http://www.native-languages.org/legends-grasshopper.htm http://www.hollowtop.com/finl_html/amerindians.htm http://www.hollowtop.com/finl_html/amerindians.htm I'm having trouble finding articles, but basically they used to weave large nets and string them along places where insects gathered. It was basically land fishing. I think people might be surprised to learn just how easy it was to thrive in hunter-gatherer societies. Salmon and shellfish were effectively unlimited, so if you knew which native plants to eat (like wild onions, carrots and especially camas where I'm from), you could meet all of your daily macronutrient and vitamin/mineral needs on 2 hours of work per day. Edit: here's also a concise list of edible plants and herbs with their effects: https://www.legendsofamerica.com/na-herbs/9/ https://www.legendsofamerica.com/na-herbs/9/
- davidw 7y agoPlagues, locusts... oh my :-(
- tus88 7y agoGlobal warming...the apocalypse is coming.
- derision 7y agoNoah.. get the boat
- thrower123 7y agoWaterworld, the most accurate of all the apocalyptic visions of the future, lol.
- markdown 7y agoNapalm needed.
- dougmwne 7y agoThere're some entertaining control measures being suggested in the comments. To my knowledge, the best control measure is pesticide application programs that use modeling to suggest optimal treatment locations. If you can develop a better locust population model, FAO would likely be interested.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- cosmodisk 7y agoI think genetic modifications could help but it's probably a long shot.
- pnako 7y agoLocusts are a solved problem in most parts of the world. Insecticides do work. I understand that this is HN and people are interested in drones, lasers, genetic engineering, etc. but in cases like this it's better to use proven solutions rather than experiment.
- coribuci 7y agoWe only need a way to move Glyphosat from Western Europe to Africa.
- stevespang 7y agoI read that insect protein is like 60% to 70% of the entire animal - - way higher than beef. Pesticides will only further poison our world. What is needed is urgent development of monster military aircraft flying through locust storm with intense radar (microwaves) to fry them,ready to eat. Otherwise,there are at present many biological microbes that could be aerosolized to attack locusts: http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/focus/2006/1000345/index.html http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/focus/2006/1000345/index.html BTW, Amazon reaches new high today, but is that the "top" ? Because all indicators are flashing red on the Chinese economy, which this coming Monday only about 1/3rd of factories to open,if that much,and so soon Amazon will run out of Chinese crap to sell, which is like 70% of their inventory . . .
- pintxo 7y agoIf anyone wonders what happens if a proper airplane tries to fly through a swarm of locust: http://avherald.com/h?article=4d1de8cc&opt=0 http://avherald.com/h?article=4d1de8cc&opt=0 > The windscreen wipers were not able to clear the windshield anymore. The crew went around, climbed to 8500 feet, depressurized the aircraft, opened the cockpit side window and cleaned the windscreen by hand. The same happened on second approach to Dire Dawa. The crew again climbed to 8500 feet, cleaned the windscreen by hand again and diverted to Addis Ababa.
- mhandley 7y agoHN discussion is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22073796 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22073796
- danschumann 7y agoWhy don't people eat the locusts? I mean... good protein, right?
- i1856511 7y agoSure, would you like to be the first?
- felipemnoa 7y agoLots of people already do. Think of it as a shrimp on land.
- dredmorbius 7y agohttps://www.feedipedia.org/node/198 https://www.feedipedia.org/node/198
- samatman 7y agoHistorically, they absolutely do. Not like one would have much of a choice after they've eaten all the crops. Locusts are the only insect which is kosher, and this is most likely why.
- scythe 7y agoSo my guess for deterring these pests would be a setup with high-intensity mid-ultraviolet LEDs (200-300 nm) pointed upwards, which should render large proportions of the exposed population sterile if not dead (sterile might be better than dead if it inhibits effective mating). 300 nm is about the limit for ionizing DNA. Humans can be advised to avoid the lamps.
- mkl 7y agoThe inverse square law being what it is, I think the power requirements alone of such a solution would render it impossible, and the LEDs would need to be insanely high intensity (I doubt they actually exist).
- Eric_WVGG 7y ago> The U.S. Agency for International Development says it released $800,000 to support FAO’s response in eastern Africa. That's enough to send a couple diplomats down there to give the locals the middle finger, not including airfare.
- plopz 7y agoWhen the article says its the worst in 25 years, does that mean the historical record only goes back 25 years or that a worse invasion happened in 1995? From what I can see Wikipedia has an article for an infestation in 2004 and mentions 1989 as a previously notably bad situation in western Africa.
- dredmorbius 7y agoConsiderably more than 25 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt#8._Locusts:_Ex._10:1–20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt#8._Locusts:_E... More recently, the UN FAO tracks outbreaks. https://www.worldcat.org/title/desert-locust-project-final-report-on-the-united-nations-development-program-desert-locust-project/oclc/30276478 https://www.worldcat.org/title/desert-locust-project-final-r...
- dredmorbius 7y agoThe swarms follow the wind, seek food, and signal necessary movement with pheromones. Seems curbing food downwind (tillage, fire?), prompting movement, and starving the swarm, might be a control method. Something like how wildfire is controlled.
- Wicher 7y agoSynthesize the pheromones, carpet spray them, and they'll keep moving non-stop until they die of exhaustion! (Might have to do some due diligence eco-research to check, for instance, if the synthetic pheromone is specific enough)
- dredmorbius 7y agoSomething like that. Or maneuver them into a narrow valley or canyon or to a too-long water crossing (shades of lemmings). Or use the Mormon defence: seagulls.
- dhymn 7y agoMaybe we should all take up eating locusts? Creating more demand may help these farmers leverage this otherwise bad situation. Anyone else up for a locust protein bar?
- shoo 7y agoobligatory locust economy link (2013) https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2013/04/03/the-locust-economy/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2013/04/03/the-locust-economy/
- m0llusk 7y agoWe just need to find a way to eat them. Locust cakes could be a worldwide smash and great source of protein.
- Aperocky 7y agoSo much protein flying through air.. If only we have a way to capture them and turn into bars.
- wbillingsley 7y agoThe Indian Ocean Dipole event did nobody much good. It's been attributed for the very low rainfall (and bushfires) across Australia in 2019 as well as the higher than usual rainfall (and locusts) in east Africa. Also an impressive feat of weather modelling, however. This is from May 2019, apparently before the strong IOD event had fully formed, and before the bushfire crisis hit. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-16/positive-indian-ocean-dipole-bad-news-for-drought-crippled-areas/11120566 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-16/positive-indian-ocean... This is from last month and shows what happened with it https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-11/indian-ocean-dipole-values-graph/11788386 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-11/indian-ocean-dipole-v... And they were right about the effects on rainfall while it was in place.
- Gravityloss 7y agoThank you. Some scientific background, instead of just event reporting.
- aszantu 7y agoEat locusts instead of grain then xD they contain high amounts of protein and water and taste like chicken when fried. Add lots of butter if you can