7 ms·

You make a good point, but I have a counterpoint... My Father-in-law had a house built a couple years ago. The guy that did the A/V used the same setup you ar

You make a good point, but I have a counterpoint... My Father-in-law had a house built a couple years ago. The guy that did the A/V used the same setup you are talking about (Denon A/V receiver, multi-zone audio for whole house music, IR blaster for A/V system in a cabinet in the next room, 5+1 surround). They struggle with that system. It required a dedicated smart remote to turn on and control all the gear. But instead of a Logitech Harmony, he used some other brand that "is easier for installers to program". I had to make YouTube videos to remind myself and my FIL how to operate the system, particularly for less used configurations like playing a DVD or playing music on the deck... I was pretty shocked, because this was basically the A/V setup I had 20 years ago... My current setup is: Everything goes to the TV (PS4, Chromecast, soundbar), Soundbar is controlled by the TV remote using CEC (Consumer Electronics Control). Most things are controllable by the TV remote. CEC allows the TV to tell the soundbar to adjust the volume, the Chromecast to pause or play, though that doesn't seem to work when playing DVDs on the PS4, where we use the PS4 remote. CEC can also tell the TV to change inputs, so all I have to do is start casting to the Chromecast and the TV turns on and switches to the right input, turn the PS4 on and ditto, etc... Music in the bathroom? That's a Google Home. Music in the garage or back patio? That's a Bluetooth Jambox. Though that comes with it's own issues. Yes, simple is good. But these days I'd call this sort of CEC setup the simpler option. I appreciate the Receiver option, but I'm reluctant to switch away from this setup. I've been wanting to build some kick ass speakers using my woodworking and electronics skills, but I can't bring myself to introduce an amp/receiver to the mix. Aside: Does anyone know of a CEC controller for embedding into DIY soundbars? They make some that do amp+bluetooth+aux in, but I haven't found one that does HDMI in with CEC.

RHSeeger 7y ago
I have my system centered around a Denon A/V receiver, with a Sony tv (with a single HDMI cable from the Denon being the only cable to it). Everything works more or less perfect, with the ocassional glitch where the a/v and tv no longer talk to each other (I need to reboot the whole system when this happens). - The tv and cable remote are both able to turn off the off the tv, which will tell the a/v receiver to turn off - Pressing home on the fire stick causes the tv and a/v to turn on - The volume on the tv, cable remote, and denon remote all trigger the volume of the denon to change. The tv and cable remotes do not trigger the denon's volume's "speed up how fast it changes" on the volume (I don't like that feature, so it works out well) Just pressing the button you would expect to work results in the expected action. I imagine adding sound multi-channel would add complexity (it, picking a channel), but that should be orthogonal to the rest of the setup, and be the same level of complexity between wired and not. What kinds of issues did you run into? Edit: To be clear, I'm an a/v newbie, I doubt I'd be able to offer any advice. I was just curious what issues you saw.
- tzs 7y ago
  I too have a Denon A/V receiver, although probably older than the rest of you (an AVR-1913 bought in 2013). I don't know if the later Denons still have this, but try finding out its IP address on your network (assuming you have put it on your LAN), and then go to that address, port 80, in your browser. Mine has a built-in web server running there that serves up a status and settings site that lets you do most or all of the things you'd normally do via the remote and on-screen menus, which sometimes gets tedious. The web server is very slow, so it is still tedious, but a "twiddle your thumbs" tediousness as opposed to "way to much remote button pressing to navigate" tediousness. They also have some kind of much faster network access, probably still through the web server but without all the GUI stuff which is apparently where the slowness is. They've got an app on the iOS [1] and Google stores that uses this. Did any of you have trouble getting ARC to work? It simply would not work for me, until I finally noticed that the Denon manual very specifically says you have to use a “Standard HDMI cable with Ethernet” or “High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet” for HDMI. I was using a regular HDMI cable. Switching to one "with Ethernet" made ARC work. This puzzles me. Everything I've been able to find says that for the version of ARC available in 2013 it should not require a special cable. It should work with any HDMI 1.4 cable. A "with Ethernet" cable should only be required for eARC. I don't think eARC was even in the pipeline in 2013, and didn't start showing up on receivers until 2019. I've checked some Denon manual for later models, and they also have the explicit "with Ethernet" requirement. What is going on? [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/denon-remote-app/id388608880 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/denon-remote-app/id388608880
  - RHSeeger 7y ago
    Arc "just worked" for me, but I was probably using such a cable by default. As far as it's IP address, I don't have it connected to the internet.
  - aidenn0 7y ago
    Network remote control is through port 23 (telnet); I hacked up a little remote app with the functions I need most (input select, volume &c.).
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
clairity 7y ago
a couple of years ago, i finally upgraded to a proper home theater system, with everything connected through a yamaha receiver, and i am pleasantly surprised at how well CEC works (given the many complaints i saw online). since i'd vowed never to pay into the cable cartel, i watch most things via my apple tv. i just have to hit one button on the apple tv remote and the apple tv, receiver and tv come on automatically, and will switch to the right hdmi input (and tv input) if not already set. even if the apple tv is not being used, i can still use the volume buttons on it (easier, since it's radio and not infrared like the receiver remote). it's great!
- nl 7y ago
  Isn't this just switching out the Sonos ecosystem for the Apple ecosystem?
  - gog 7y ago
    Replace AppleTV with a Kodi player and you have the same setup without the Apple ecosystem.
    - Koshkin 7y ago
      Yeah but then you lose all the Apple TV content and the apps...
    - givinguflac 7y ago
      Or just sideload Kodi and have the best of everything
      - oarsinsync 7y ago
        Or install MrMC if you've got an appstore capable apple tv and forget about sideloading too.
  - teirce 7y ago
    If I am understanding the poster correctly, Apple TV is just the input. The speaker system itself is agnostic to what the input is. There is no ecosystem for the audio, as they're all 'dumb' speakers connected to a receiver.
zaroth 7y ago
I don’t have really any remotes at all for this setup. The amp I bought [1] has a volume dial for each channel, one speaker is wired per channel. I walked around the house one day to normalize the perceived volumes from each speaker. I’ve never touched the volume dial since. I don’t see the point of wiring volume controls in the walls of each room. I can control the AirPlay source volume on my phone. The A/V receiver in my living room is a 2-zone system with a Zone 2 Preout. So there’s a 25’ RCA cable ($10 - do not waste money on fancy cables) going from the receiver to the amp. The amp has two “main” inputs which go to all channels, and then each channel can also take its own dedicated RCA input — but I don’t currently use them. Since all the speakers are on the same floor, there’s no point in driving different sources to different speakers at this point. If my Receiver had pre-outs for each channel of Zone 1 then in theory I could drive two of the living room ceiling speakers as rear/surrounds when watching movies by just wiring up the RCA jacks. When I AirPlay from any phone in the house to the receiver it just defaults to playing on Zone-2. There’s an app which lets me change the zone that a source plays on, but I never use it. In theory I could play a movie on the “house” speakers but then it wouldn’t be 7.1 surround; my receiver anyway can’t do 7.1 on the Zone 1 speakers while also doing a basic Stereo downmix over Zone 2. But I have never missed this. Basically the use case for the ceiling speakers is listening to music during breakfast or dinner. The kids love choosing songs and having little dance parties morning and afternoon. Anyone can start whatever song they want from their phone. Of course sometimes that results in the children trying to override each other, but usually all in good fun. IMO it’s definitely worth the ~$600 for dumb speakers, dumb amp, and dumb wiring to have absolutely future proof ceiling speakers throughout the house. The same exact system could easily be pumping tunes 30 years from now. The AirPlay receiver that drives the amp doesn’t count toward the cost because it’s the same home theater receiver you’re going to buy anyway. It’s also the only piece of the puzzle that runs software and hardware (WiFi) that will become obsolete in a relatively short time frame. It does support CEC and it is also the source selector but honestly the only source right now is the AppleTV. All that is really kind of “besides the point” you could say when it comes to the house speakers. Anything could sit in front of it, as long as you can get an analog stereo output from it. It could be a Raspberry Pi even. The only requirement is being able to AirPlay/Chromecast to whatever is providing the RCA source. It can be a huge mood boost and a great way to start the day before rushing the kids off to school to blast some tunes while cooking pancakes, and with eight 8” woofers the sound is a lot more immersive than a single “smart” speaker could muster. [1] - Pyle 8-Channel Home Theater... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002UL0XIQ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002UL0XIQ
plorg 7y ago
My wife complained that my MythTV DVR was too loud in the living room (I have mild hearing loss, so I believe her, but I can't hear the fans myself). So I moved the box into a utility room and replaced it with a Raspberry Pi 3B+ (the newest model at the time) running Kodi as a frontend. Kodi compiled for the RPi can be buggy, and I wouldn't recommend this setup for a novice, but it works well enough. Anyways, I was surprised to find that Kodi on the RPi supports CEC. I was controlling it with a wireless keyboard for a month before, one day after I switched the input and absent-mindedly pressed a button on the D-pad, the RPi responded to my input. It works really well (until Kodi crashes).
- SamWhited 7y ago
  If you haven't tried it, try https://libreelec.tv/ https://libreelec.tv/, I got a new Pi 4 to replace my old Pi 3B+ that I had been running Kodi directly (or whatever the original form of it is called) on and it came with an SD card with NOOBS on it so I decided to install LibreELEC and give it a shot since that was one of the easy-install options. The UI still isn't great and feels like no one has thought through anything, but it's way better than Kodi was (I have yet to have it pop up full screen in the middle of watching a movie to ask if it can update itself) and I haven't had nearly as many crashes (or any, in fact).
  - snowwolf 7y ago
    Just thought I should point out that Libreelec is Kodi. It’s just a stripped down OS with just enough on it to run Kodi so it can be fast and stable.
hvidgaard 7y ago
The key piece of equipment in this is what sits in front of the amplifier. If you could "AirPlay" or "ChromeCast" to a room of your choice, it would be significantly better than a whole house Sonos. If only the protocols was open, so you could use an off the shelf computer with enough audio out, then it would be nice.
- core-questions 7y ago
  You might like https://volumio.org/ https://volumio.org/
- shawabawa3 7y ago
  > "ChromeCast" to a room of your choice This is actually what "Chromecast Audio" was, sadly now discontinued I bought a bunch before they stopped selling and have them all over my house, attached to cheap dumb speakers They still work for now, hopefully they will for a while
  - Zigurd 7y ago
    I use a mix of Chromecast Audio, Chromecast video, and Google Home devices of varying vintage. The Chromecasts are the audio source to a TV and a handful of stereos in different rooms, some with really old gear. The Google things can be grouped across types. They used to be unreliable, but before I could get annoyed enough to get Sonos gear, Google seems to have fixed the problems. I have whole house audio with relatively little at risk of being EOL'ed, and individually pretty cheap to upgrade if eventually needed. The key thing is: Audio is not a moving target. My Klipsch speakers are over 40 years old. They are connected to a McIntosh receiver I found literally on the scrap metal pile at the town dump. This seems to be a more resilient approach than either going 1970's analog with wiring in the walls, or buying a suite of proprietary speakers with audio distribution built in. The expensive bits have an indefinite lifespan. Sonos decided to combine that with microprocessors, NICs and software that, they discover, has to have the lifespan of a PBX or airplane control panel, not a mobile phone.
- hanklazard 7y ago
  Not exactly the setup you’re talking about but I use a series of raspberry pi’s each with these great little hifiberry amps and running Volumio software to achieve whole house audio. There’s a plug-in called snapcast that allows for a server that streams audio to all the clients, keeping everything in sync. I control volumes of various rooms/zones through home assistant. Works really well for me.
solarkraft 7y ago
The Raspberry Pis support CEC (other SBC probably do too).
- IshKebab 7y ago
  Does it support HDMI input though?
lowdose 7y ago
Even combined with a Logitech harmony remote the Denon user experience remains terrible, the need to turn on devices in a specific order otherwise the a/v gets confused is serious disregard of ux. I wonder if they ever tested their products outside the lab in the wild.

RHSeeger 7y ago

I have my system centered around a Denon A/V receiver, with a Sony tv (with a single HDMI cable from the Denon being the only cable to it). Everything works more or less perfect, with the ocassional glitch where the a/v and tv no longer talk to each other (I need to reboot the whole system when this happens). - The tv and cable remote are both able to turn off the off the tv, which will tell the a/v receiver to turn off - Pressing home on the fire stick causes the tv and a/v to turn on - The volume on the tv, cable remote, and denon remote all trigger the volume of the denon to change. The tv and cable remotes do not trigger the denon's volume's "speed up how fast it changes" on the volume (I don't like that feature, so it works out well) Just pressing the button you would expect to work results in the expected action. I imagine adding sound multi-channel would add complexity (it, picking a channel), but that should be orthogonal to the rest of the setup, and be the same level of complexity between wired and not. What kinds of issues did you run into? Edit: To be clear, I'm an a/v newbie, I doubt I'd be able to offer any advice. I was just curious what issues you saw.

tzs 7y ago
I too have a Denon A/V receiver, although probably older than the rest of you (an AVR-1913 bought in 2013). I don't know if the later Denons still have this, but try finding out its IP address on your network (assuming you have put it on your LAN), and then go to that address, port 80, in your browser. Mine has a built-in web server running there that serves up a status and settings site that lets you do most or all of the things you'd normally do via the remote and on-screen menus, which sometimes gets tedious. The web server is very slow, so it is still tedious, but a "twiddle your thumbs" tediousness as opposed to "way to much remote button pressing to navigate" tediousness. They also have some kind of much faster network access, probably still through the web server but without all the GUI stuff which is apparently where the slowness is. They've got an app on the iOS [1] and Google stores that uses this. Did any of you have trouble getting ARC to work? It simply would not work for me, until I finally noticed that the Denon manual very specifically says you have to use a “Standard HDMI cable with Ethernet” or “High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet” for HDMI. I was using a regular HDMI cable. Switching to one "with Ethernet" made ARC work. This puzzles me. Everything I've been able to find says that for the version of ARC available in 2013 it should not require a special cable. It should work with any HDMI 1.4 cable. A "with Ethernet" cable should only be required for eARC. I don't think eARC was even in the pipeline in 2013, and didn't start showing up on receivers until 2019. I've checked some Denon manual for later models, and they also have the explicit "with Ethernet" requirement. What is going on? [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/denon-remote-app/id388608880 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/denon-remote-app/id388608880
- RHSeeger 7y ago
  Arc "just worked" for me, but I was probably using such a cable by default. As far as it's IP address, I don't have it connected to the internet.
- aidenn0 7y ago
  Network remote control is through port 23 (telnet); I hacked up a little remote app with the functions I need most (input select, volume &c.).

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

clairity 7y ago

a couple of years ago, i finally upgraded to a proper home theater system, with everything connected through a yamaha receiver, and i am pleasantly surprised at how well CEC works (given the many complaints i saw online). since i'd vowed never to pay into the cable cartel, i watch most things via my apple tv. i just have to hit one button on the apple tv remote and the apple tv, receiver and tv come on automatically, and will switch to the right hdmi input (and tv input) if not already set. even if the apple tv is not being used, i can still use the volume buttons on it (easier, since it's radio and not infrared like the receiver remote). it's great!

nl 7y ago
Isn't this just switching out the Sonos ecosystem for the Apple ecosystem?
- gog 7y ago
  Replace AppleTV with a Kodi player and you have the same setup without the Apple ecosystem.
  - Koshkin 7y ago
    Yeah but then you lose all the Apple TV content and the apps...
  - givinguflac 7y ago
    Or just sideload Kodi and have the best of everything
    - oarsinsync 7y ago
      Or install MrMC if you've got an appstore capable apple tv and forget about sideloading too.
- teirce 7y ago
  If I am understanding the poster correctly, Apple TV is just the input. The speaker system itself is agnostic to what the input is. There is no ecosystem for the audio, as they're all 'dumb' speakers connected to a receiver.

zaroth 7y ago

I don’t have really any remotes at all for this setup. The amp I bought [1] has a volume dial for each channel, one speaker is wired per channel. I walked around the house one day to normalize the perceived volumes from each speaker. I’ve never touched the volume dial since. I don’t see the point of wiring volume controls in the walls of each room. I can control the AirPlay source volume on my phone. The A/V receiver in my living room is a 2-zone system with a Zone 2 Preout. So there’s a 25’ RCA cable ($10 - do not waste money on fancy cables) going from the receiver to the amp. The amp has two “main” inputs which go to all channels, and then each channel can also take its own dedicated RCA input — but I don’t currently use them. Since all the speakers are on the same floor, there’s no point in driving different sources to different speakers at this point. If my Receiver had pre-outs for each channel of Zone 1 then in theory I could drive two of the living room ceiling speakers as rear/surrounds when watching movies by just wiring up the RCA jacks. When I AirPlay from any phone in the house to the receiver it just defaults to playing on Zone-2. There’s an app which lets me change the zone that a source plays on, but I never use it. In theory I could play a movie on the “house” speakers but then it wouldn’t be 7.1 surround; my receiver anyway can’t do 7.1 on the Zone 1 speakers while also doing a basic Stereo downmix over Zone 2. But I have never missed this. Basically the use case for the ceiling speakers is listening to music during breakfast or dinner. The kids love choosing songs and having little dance parties morning and afternoon. Anyone can start whatever song they want from their phone. Of course sometimes that results in the children trying to override each other, but usually all in good fun. IMO it’s definitely worth the ~$600 for dumb speakers, dumb amp, and dumb wiring to have absolutely future proof ceiling speakers throughout the house. The same exact system could easily be pumping tunes 30 years from now. The AirPlay receiver that drives the amp doesn’t count toward the cost because it’s the same home theater receiver you’re going to buy anyway. It’s also the only piece of the puzzle that runs software and hardware (WiFi) that will become obsolete in a relatively short time frame. It does support CEC and it is also the source selector but honestly the only source right now is the AppleTV. All that is really kind of “besides the point” you could say when it comes to the house speakers. Anything could sit in front of it, as long as you can get an analog stereo output from it. It could be a Raspberry Pi even. The only requirement is being able to AirPlay/Chromecast to whatever is providing the RCA source. It can be a huge mood boost and a great way to start the day before rushing the kids off to school to blast some tunes while cooking pancakes, and with eight 8” woofers the sound is a lot more immersive than a single “smart” speaker could muster. [1] - Pyle 8-Channel Home Theater... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002UL0XIQ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002UL0XIQ

plorg 7y ago

My wife complained that my MythTV DVR was too loud in the living room (I have mild hearing loss, so I believe her, but I can't hear the fans myself). So I moved the box into a utility room and replaced it with a Raspberry Pi 3B+ (the newest model at the time) running Kodi as a frontend. Kodi compiled for the RPi can be buggy, and I wouldn't recommend this setup for a novice, but it works well enough. Anyways, I was surprised to find that Kodi on the RPi supports CEC. I was controlling it with a wireless keyboard for a month before, one day after I switched the input and absent-mindedly pressed a button on the D-pad, the RPi responded to my input. It works really well (until Kodi crashes).

SamWhited 7y ago
If you haven't tried it, try https://libreelec.tv/ https://libreelec.tv/, I got a new Pi 4 to replace my old Pi 3B+ that I had been running Kodi directly (or whatever the original form of it is called) on and it came with an SD card with NOOBS on it so I decided to install LibreELEC and give it a shot since that was one of the easy-install options. The UI still isn't great and feels like no one has thought through anything, but it's way better than Kodi was (I have yet to have it pop up full screen in the middle of watching a movie to ask if it can update itself) and I haven't had nearly as many crashes (or any, in fact).
- snowwolf 7y ago
  Just thought I should point out that Libreelec is Kodi. It’s just a stripped down OS with just enough on it to run Kodi so it can be fast and stable.

hvidgaard 7y ago

The key piece of equipment in this is what sits in front of the amplifier. If you could "AirPlay" or "ChromeCast" to a room of your choice, it would be significantly better than a whole house Sonos. If only the protocols was open, so you could use an off the shelf computer with enough audio out, then it would be nice.

core-questions 7y ago
You might like https://volumio.org/ https://volumio.org/
shawabawa3 7y ago
> "ChromeCast" to a room of your choice This is actually what "Chromecast Audio" was, sadly now discontinued I bought a bunch before they stopped selling and have them all over my house, attached to cheap dumb speakers They still work for now, hopefully they will for a while
- Zigurd 7y ago
  I use a mix of Chromecast Audio, Chromecast video, and Google Home devices of varying vintage. The Chromecasts are the audio source to a TV and a handful of stereos in different rooms, some with really old gear. The Google things can be grouped across types. They used to be unreliable, but before I could get annoyed enough to get Sonos gear, Google seems to have fixed the problems. I have whole house audio with relatively little at risk of being EOL'ed, and individually pretty cheap to upgrade if eventually needed. The key thing is: Audio is not a moving target. My Klipsch speakers are over 40 years old. They are connected to a McIntosh receiver I found literally on the scrap metal pile at the town dump. This seems to be a more resilient approach than either going 1970's analog with wiring in the walls, or buying a suite of proprietary speakers with audio distribution built in. The expensive bits have an indefinite lifespan. Sonos decided to combine that with microprocessors, NICs and software that, they discover, has to have the lifespan of a PBX or airplane control panel, not a mobile phone.
hanklazard 7y ago
Not exactly the setup you’re talking about but I use a series of raspberry pi’s each with these great little hifiberry amps and running Volumio software to achieve whole house audio. There’s a plug-in called snapcast that allows for a server that streams audio to all the clients, keeping everything in sync. I control volumes of various rooms/zones through home assistant. Works really well for me.

solarkraft 7y ago

The Raspberry Pis support CEC (other SBC probably do too).

IshKebab 7y ago
Does it support HDMI input though?

lowdose 7y ago

Even combined with a Logitech harmony remote the Denon user experience remains terrible, the need to turn on devices in a specific order otherwise the a/v gets confused is serious disregard of ux. I wonder if they ever tested their products outside the lab in the wild.